The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

24:53He's going to be the first pick in the draft. But like the, the interesting part to people in the league is like, we'd be a little bit more worried about the externals with Cam than we are with Shadr and coach prime. Yeah. And he's also had a big spotlight on him for the last couple of years. Right. Then abnormally large for QB. There's one other piece. So you were talking about how he didn't do well in a couple of those interviews, right. Or the vibes were off. Yeah, nothing was disrespectful. No, just like, hmm, doesn't seem like he's that interested in coming to our team. He knows something that maybe we just don't know.

25:25Right. So there's an NBA version of this during the COVID draft when LaMelo ends up going second to Charlotte. Okay. And the story I always heard was they have to do Zoom interviews. And it's like the most fucked up draft process ever. and they do the LaMelo thing and he's just really off in it and he's distant and just seems like he doesn't really give a shit about the Warriors. And it affected how they thought about, you know, whether they should take him or not. And then it turns out he probably knew he was going, you know, Charlotte. He probably wanted to go there. And you kind of perform what your expectations are for where you want to go, right?

26:04So if it's a team, and I can totally see it. If it's a team you don't really want to go to, you turn into Tom Cruise and risky business where you're like, I don't really want to go to University of Illinois. I want to go to Princeton. So if he has an inkling that he could go second, he knows in Cleveland, like obviously LeBron was there, like you can become a big star in Cleveland. But I can see it. It's a good situation because their team wasn't bad last year. Like it's not, they're not that far away from being a little more impactful maybe if they had a decent QB. No, and they need a running back.

26:37and this just so happens to be the best running back class maybe in the history of the draft and certainly since 2017. Yeah. And, you know, they're not that far away. They're really not. And I go through it. If I'm Shador and I've got assurances that it could be Cleveland, but if it's not, it's very likely going to be the Giants. I think that that probably led to what you were just talking about too. And there's no trade-up team, we don't think, because the Raiders got Geno. I don't think that the Jets just went in on fields. I don't see them trading up anyway and then the Saints. I do hear that the Jets the Jets could pull could throw us a curveball the first night.

27:17Don't be, let's just get it out here now. I'm not saying it's going to happen but I think there's a little bit of love for Jackson Dart in that building. Oh, it seems like he's the Bo Nix of this draft. Absolutely. Bo Nix ends up going what, 12? He went 12. It seemed inconceivable. He was second round, second round, second round. Oh, maybe late first round. Then all of a sudden he's 12. And if it wasn't Denver, it was probably going to be second round. And that place, it just, Sean Payton fell in love with him. Perfect fit. And that's how it worked out. And listen, Jackson Dark doesn't go seven, which again, maybe let's put a 25, 30 % chance at most at this point.

27:56New Orleans is a possibility at nine. But then after that... Another team that's in salary cap hell and just completely screwed and have to get a quarterback somehow. Right. And everyone's like, well, they brought Derek Carr back. Yeah, one more year. But this would actually be a perfect time to get a rookie quarterback as we work through all the salary stuff, not force him out there for year one. So I think Jackson Dart could be a top 10 pick. But if he's not, then it's like, you know, we talk about 21 to Pittsburgh or a team. That's the other thing. Either the Browns or the Giants are very likely to take Shudor.

28:31whichever team doesn't the browns are picking at 33 which is the first pick of the second round the giants are picking up one spot after that i think you'll see one of those teams whichever one doesn't get a quarterback wind up moving into the first round maybe it's to pick 19 to tampa or 20 to um to denver to try to secure jack jackson dart um and also to get that fifth year in the nfl there's a fifth year option for the first round player. So you want to get that for that extra year of security as an organization. Well, in the McShay report, a very excellent newsletter that everybody should subscribe to.

29:06It pops right into your, it's like, I woke up this morning, seven o 'clock, looking at text, Celtics all of a sudden got sold. Then your newsletter came. I'm like, what a great morning. I haven't done that coffee yet. You have the Giants trading up to 19 for dart. You have fake trade, 34 and 65 and a 26 third rounder of the Bucs. for pick number 19. So in that scenario, the two quarterbacks go one, two. They take Hunter third. And I want to talk about that in a second. And then move up and take Dart. And now they're like, we've got Dart. We've got Neighbors. Yo, Travis Hunter. Who knows? Maybe he'll play both sides of the ball.

29:45And all of a sudden now there's energy with the Giants. Absolutely. Let's bring it back to the top four, right? It's a puzzle. Yeah. And we know one, we've got one of the four pieces of the puzzle with those four picks. I feel very strongly like we've got it planted in there, right? So now figuring out the other three, it's almost like the rest of the draft starts at pick five. Yeah. Like Mason Graham and Tyler Warren and the running backs and all this. But the first four picks, it's like, how does this work, right? Well, and let me stop you one second there. Yeah. I refuse to read another mock draft that doesn't have those four going in some order.

30:22I still see drafts from good places where they're like, number four, Patriots, Will Campbell, and then Jacksonville takes Abdul Carter at five. I'm like, I promise you that's not happening. If Abdul Carter isn't four, they're taking Abdul Carter. And I put it in there because I wound up with Abdul Carter in the newsletter in the mock draft 2.0. I put Abdul Carter in there, but I'm very, very clear to my friends here in New England, don't get overly excited because a lot has to happen. So don't buy the jersey yet. Tell my buddy Jay Buck. Don't buy it yet. Wait till like end of April. But if Shadour goes two or three, you can buy two jerseys and get rid of one of them because it's going to be Hunter or Carter, period.

31:05But Hunter makes a whiff more sense for the Giants, but I thought you laid it out correctly. It makes a little more sense, but if they took Carter, it's not like that's stupid. They would just have an amazing defensive line. I think they've prepared, like most good organizations do. And I'm not saying the Giants have been, but organizations are in free agency are trying to free themselves up to take the best player in the draft. The Giants obviously have Kayvon Thibodeau and Brian Burns at edge. So you look at it and you say, it's not a huge needle, who cares? Like when you get a player like that at the second most important position, you take him.

31:41And so if it goes where Shadour is number two, they have their choice. and so that's a good position to be in. But what if Abdul goes one or two? Or what if Abdul goes two, right? And they're sitting there three and Hunter's the only guy. Or if Hunter goes two and then Abdul's sitting there, they've got to make sure that they're covered. They re-signed Darius Slayton at wide receiver. They Paulson Adebo at cornerback. So they're covered, but you're talking about excellence versus just solid players. And so, well, you put, you put him and neighbors together just from an athlete standpoint. Yes.

32:21And now you, now you have, and then the opportunity to go get a Jackson dart with that, as you had mentioned. So there's a lot of ways this can play out, but for new England, the only thing you really truly have to pray for is that Shadour goes number two or three, because then you get either the best or the second best player in this entire draft falling to you at four. And that doesn't happen very often. Yeah. Otherwise you're looking at a trade back and in a trade back, I don't know who's trading up and what you're getting. I mean, my, I told you my dream trade would be the jets move up to four.

32:59Pats get Garrett Wilson. Pats give up their second round pick. So it's basically seven and 39 for, you know, for like whatever the Pats end up with seven and Garrett Wilson in the deal. And I'm like, I'd sign up for that. Why would the Jets do that? I have no idea, but that's my job. That's where you lose me. I mean, you had me on the show. No, I had you. Yeah. I had you. Yeah. I can't listen. I can't apologize for my dreams. No, not at all. But the thing with the Pats is I'm not, I'm not a big draft for need guy. When you're not one guy away from winning the Superbowl, this Pats thing's going and be like a three-year, you know.

33:36Completely. They don't need to be like, we need a left tackle because that way we'll go eight and nine next year. Like, they just need awesome players. And it really doesn't matter what position they are. Well, the problem is, though, if you're New England, if Shadour doesn't go, right? Let's say Cleveland and the Giants pass and it goes Abdul Carter two, Hunter three, or vice versa. Then now you're in, remember I said. You're in Membo range. Yes, and Membo's a right tackle. You're taking him three, four spots too high, but you kind of have to do it. Membo's a right tackle in college. And can he kick to the left side?

34:12Are they comfortable with that? And Will Campbell's a pure left tackle, but he's got 32 and a half inch arm length. And that's concerning when you're using a top 10 pick. You just want it to be clean. And then you got Jalen Walker from Georgia who would do great things. Edge rusher, right. Edge rusher who would do great things in Mike Vrabel's defense. But again, you're talking about elite. And no matter what the draft, Travis Hunter, Abdul Carter are elite. They're in that top tier. To then like, it could be one of like six or seven guys with very similar grades. And now we are focusing more on the need.

34:47No, it's Lombardi's old thing about blue chippers. We call them red chippers. And then the guys below that. But the teams that usually are around the Super Bowl sniffing around, you look and they have 5, 6, 7, 8 blue chippers. Yes. The Pats only have Gonzales and Drake May right now. Plus the nose tackle they got from the Eagles. What's your blood pressure going to be like when Cleveland and the Giants come up to make their... Like during that 25, 30... Well, don't you think we'll know? We'll know with Cleveland and Sanders, right? That's not going to leak out? Yeah, probably. There's a lot of people with interest in that.

35:26Yes. Don't you think? Probably. Probably, probably. But still, like until you hear the name. Because the only thing that worries me is are the Browns, and I would do this if I ran a team, like do you pretend you're drafting Sanders because you want to see if the Giants are going to flip out and maybe offer you something to flip picks with you and you wanted Abdul Carter all on? Yeah, of course you do. I always feel like I'm just going to represent that I'm going to potentially take somebody. But the Giants would know, unless you're a team behind trying to, the Giants would know if you're willing to give up that, pick, you're not taking them.

36:00But they could say, if you don't swap picks with us, we have somebody that's coming in hard. That's the play. We might move back to 7-8-9. The Jets are a surprise team, the Saints, whoever. Yes. And then you have the Giants are now trying to use all their intel, like find out from our guy in the Jets and how real this is. And that's what makes the draft so much fun. You're basically all playing poker with each other, but it's some of the worst poker players who ever lived. Yes. So the biggest questions are Carter versus the other than QBs. Carter versus Hunter. Just who has more value? And that really seems like whoever just needs whatever they do more.

36:40But they're pretty equal. You have Carter above Hunter, but not by a shitload, right? It's like a hair. They're basically identical. The tricky part for Hunter is what's the plan, right? and for a team like New England, I've got to believe it's, you don't have Drake May and say, yeah, we just drafted this guy for overall generational talent. He's going to be a nickel corner as a rookie and eventually our starting corner. You might get 20 plays with him on offense. It's just not going to happen. So everyone is talking about the moonlighting where you'd like to play him at corner because that's the harder position in terms of developing and the technique and being part of 11 there, whereas wide receivers a little bit more ISO, kind of like an NBA thing, you know?

37:25Yeah. A lot of one-on-one stuff. For New England, I can't imagine that would be the case. I think it would be you're a full-time receiver. We've got our biggest asset in this entire organization is Drake May. And so we've got to assist that. And this is also our best chance to get a number one receiver because we struck out trying to get all these different guys. Now you're looking at Stephon Diggs and Brandon Ayuk and people are coming off major injuries against the law. and it's a receiver draft that sucks. Yeah, so it depends on the team, but I'll say this. I think Travis Hunter is more advanced as a wide receiver right now.

38:00I think Travis Hunter can be Garrett Wilson with maybe like a touch more juice after the catch. So I would have no problem with him being a 50 snap a game offensive player and 25, you know, third downs, red zone, that kind of stuff on defense if you can manage all that. It sounds like such a fun wrinkle for whoever gets him, where if you play him at receiver, but he's also like your dime back, and it's just like, he's in now. Oh, my God, he picked one off. Like, just, it's this random thing. Remember when Dion would come on the field to return a punch or kick? Do you remember, like... Or when he would line up at receiver.

38:36It was, like, so exciting. It's like, oh, my God, are they going to throw it to him? Right. So that would be cool. This tournament season, FanDuel has given you the power to take control of your bets. Introducing the BetBack Token, the ultimate game changer that lets you bail on any bet that's not going your way by turning it into bonus bets. It's simple. One of your bets is not heading in the right direction in the game. Go to your my bets section, tap the token, get your stake back immediately in bonus bets, just like that. Right now for the tourney, Fandu is giving all customers a bet back token.

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39:42A huge leap forward featuring effortless power, serious acceleration, and the most advanced tech of any Audi ever. Experience technology that puts you center stage, the panoramic digital stage, plus an optional screen for front seat passengers. That sounds fun. Perfect for watching the latest sports documentary. Maybe I made it. The Q6 e-tron is not just a new EV. It's a new way to experience driving. Learn more at AudiUSA.com. Always pay careful attention to the road. Do not drive while distracted. Then the draft really starts at five. And you had Mason Graham going to the Jags and mock draft 2.0.

40:25Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. The running backs are fascinating to me too, though. Right. So I was going to say that the boys' state kid at six to the Raiders, but then you also love Hampton, and we could have two running backs in the top 12, even though one of the only things we've learned about the draft is don't take running backs that high. Right. It's a disposable position. Like I was looking at the 2016 draft in the NFL. Don't ask why. And like everybody in that draft seems so old now, like Zeke Elliott's in it. 2016 draft is like not that long ago. Like Jalen Brown was in the 2016 draft and he's just hitting the prime of his career.

41:02And Zeke Elliott seems like he's 48. Right. So you think about that with running backs and it's like, all right, so I'm going to draft somebody that I have for six years. I get Mason Graham. He might play till he's 36. He might have two giant contracts. Yeah, Cam Hayward's what, 36 now? Right. So if you're taking a running back that high, you better think it's like this is Saquon Barkley, B. John Robinson. For each of those teams, you look at the Raiders and some of their other positions, like wide receiver, there's no receiver to draft that high. Some of the other position, cornerback, like Jaday Barron from Texas, but we're not talking about one of those elite corners.

41:47you look at what Pete Carroll has had and he's not necessarily going to be the it depends on what his role winds up being but Tom Brady is going to play a big part in all of this too but from a from the standpoint of how they want to build it you want to have a great defense they want to recapture some of the Legion of Doom stuff they want to have a running back like a Marshawn Lynch a big banger protect the ball let the defense take care of a lot of the business on the field and that's what Jinty is in terms of an every down back the miss tackles forced and he's just he's a special back so that it makes sense for that organization and for that pick where they are because it's not like they're passing on this elite pass rusher or corner or wide receiver that they shouldn't for a running back and then for Chicago they handle their business so well in free agency three offensive linemen.

42:44They're protecting their quarterback. They could go tackle with that spot if Will Campbell's still there. But I also have concerns enough with drafting a 32-and-a-half-inch arm tackle in the top 10. And if we bring in a running back to go with DeAndre Swift, how much more are we protecting our quarterback by having two backs? And so if one goes down, we still have a top-shelf back. If both are in there, they're keeping each other fresh. We can run the football. We can take some pressure. I don't know. And we saw what Ben Johnson did with Jameer Gibbs and how quickly that offense went from 90 to 100.

43:24The one player, really. So if Will Campbell had 34-inch arms, he'd be the fourth pick in the draft. Could be, yeah. Isn't that crazy? There's only three starting tackles in the league at the end of the year with sub-33-inch arms. So you're playing, it's kind of, Parcells used to say, we don't want a roster full of exceptions, you know? So that part's concerning. If you're a GM, would you ever take a running back in the top 12? No. I don't think I would either. Especially not this year when I'm looking at guys like Quinshawn Judkins from Ohio State and Cam Scadaboo, his tape I liked even more than I thought after watching the awesome things he did this season.

44:11That's my dream scenario for the third round for the Pats. I don't know that he's going to get there. He might not. But even if not, you've got R.J. Harvey from UCF. You've got D.J. Giddens from Kansas City. Yeah, but you know this, though. When there's too many, guys start dropping because nobody ends up taking – like even think about last year with the wide receivers. That got so stupid, and the Pats ended up with the 10th guy in the first 35 picks who was a receiver. Right. You know, I think there's a, they know all of a sudden Cooper goes to the Eagles at 39. He's the third best defensive back on the board.

44:43I don't know. I just feel like when there's a glut, it really fucks things up. And so, and sometimes though, when you look at it and say, well, I can get those guys later. Sometimes it's like, hold, hold, you know? And then all of a sudden one goes and there will be this, this run. But I think everyone's going to kind of wait to see where the dominoes start to fall before they jump in. Because no one wants to draft a running back over some of these other premium positions, even if you're talking about pick 40. They'd rather wait. But I would say the Gibbs and the success Detroit had with him as a weapon would make people think like, maybe in the 12 to 15 range.

45:21I always look with the draft, you know, and I'm already starting to think about NFL over-unders and the win totals. and can somebody get, like when the Eagles got Jalen Carter that year, it was like, oh, that's getting that guy at nine. Jesus, like that might affect. And when you look at the teams that are picking the first 15. Yep. The one that jumped out to me was the team you mentioned, the Bears. And I have no idea if they're going to be good and they're in a brutal division and who knows with Caleb. But they spent a lot of money. They have the QB on the rookie scale. And then if they just crush the 10th pick, somehow and got somebody awesome.

46:00Then you just have to start thinking like, ah, look at this, like that Tyler Warren, the tight end. I don't know where he's going to go. He could go five, he could go 12, but like if they got him at 10, that's somebody that could play right away and be, you know, potentially like an impact dude right away. So that was the team I was looking at. And then the only other one was, uh, was Atlanta just cause I think Atlanta with Penix and they have some talent the division sucks like if they are able to nail that pick that could be a good one too going back to the bears it's kind of what i said earlier like the good teams they they plug all the holes so that they can pick pick the best player available they do have a luxury pick and you would say well how do the bears have a luxury pick well that would be in it to a certain degree a luxury pick but it fits what they want to do yeah but the other part of it is maybe you say a 10 and you draft an offensive tackle or maybe you draft an edge rusher like a Mike Kell Williams from Georgia.

46:58Because they are picking at, I've got it right here, 39 and 41 in the second round. Yeah. And so, if I I love Omari and Hampton from UNC at running back but what if I just take a stab at one of these pass rushers and look at what the Eagles What if I load up on my D? Load up on my D, go get Cam Scadaboo, go get Quinn Sean Judkins, one of those guys at 39, I can still draft an offensive lineman or a defensive player with that 41st pick. So there's different ways to look at all of this, and that's why I think it's going to be fascinating. We're going to see at least two running backs in the first round, I think three.

47:35I don't know that we're going to see two in the top 10, but we could. I can't believe that. With TMAC, I wonder this is the reverse of a glut when there's nobody at a position. He's the only probably first round graded wide receiver is one of the only two that you could even see going in there. And somebody just needs a receiver and you get people in our office like, ah, fuck it. We need a receiver. And all of a sudden he's going 11th, you know, cause we see that version of the draft too. I just, wow, you're taking them here. I think everyone wants to be so quick to look at the highlights and the spectacular plays and they are spectacular.

48:08And then they want to look at his size and then they want to look at the report from Schultz. Was it that where he ran a four, four, eight, I talked to some scouts they had closer to 445 somewhere in that range regardless I don't see the dog in him and I don't see the refinement and Drake London wasn't overly refined he needed a year before he could be a thousand plus yard receiver but that's the comp right tall just acrobatic type of guy but they're yes the shades of but they're not they're not the same player so does somebody They look better if there's not a lot of competition in a draft. And then they start to look like the hottest girl at the bar.

48:51Absolutely. And he will go. I mean, he could go as high as Dallas at 12, let's say. But I had him going later in the first round. I had him going to the Ravens, kind of at that point, best player available. They could use another receiver. Probably go somewhere in between that range when it's all said and done. But I'm betting on Matthew Golden from Texas. If you need a receiver. So you have two. Okay. I've got two. And then Emeka Abuka could be the third that sneaks in from Ohio State. We'll see how he runs it as pro day. But he would be the third that I think has a good chance to go. All right.

49:24Two more questions. Let me give you another name real quick. Yeah. If you're not getting the receiver that first pick at 38 for New England, Jaden Higgins from Iowa State. Do a little work on him. I've watched some YouTube on him. They're looking for a physical receiver. I was after poke last year in the 30s with the receiver. I'm hurt. My guard's up. I know, but I'm just saying, he's a name that fits what they're looking for. Second to last question. Who is the, holy shit, this guy's going here, top 15 guy, if you had to guess, the guy who just goes 10, 11 spots higher than you ever could imagine.

50:02Last year would have been Bo Nix. If we were talking about that draft, five weeks for the draft, and you said Bo Nix is going to go 12, I would have been like, what? That's insane. He's not going 12. Who is the that's insane guy? I think Jackson Dart could be. I'm just looking at it right now. Is there a weird left tackle, like maybe on paper guy that we're not, that could be late? Like Membo already rose up in the top 10. I'll give you a guy. Everyone coming out of the combine. Nicky Menwari, right, from South Carolina. Really good player. Yeah. I don't think an elite player yet. I think he's still getting there.

50:39I think used in the right scheme. I'd love to see him with, I would say, I'm trying to think. Seattle would be a perfect spot, right? McDonald, the way he, what he did, Baltimore, Hamilton, I could see that being a really good marriage. But Eman Worry was like almost 6 '4", 220 pounds. His combination of like size, 40 time, which is a 4 '4 flat and vertical broad jump, It had never been done in the history of the combat. He's that special of an athlete. It was awesome to watch. I still think the other safety who ran after him and ran a pedestrian time and didn't jump like him, and I think Malachi Starks from Georgia could wind up being a top 15 pick ahead of Eamon Worry, and I think that would surprise people right now.

51:28Last question. Rosillo stretches for a half hour, goes out to Manhattan, and tries to run the 40. but he's stretched he's limber and he's ready and we have scouts there and a stopwatch what is rusillo running right now in the 40 we haven't talked about this publicly but what there's no better place to do it i texted rusillo the other day with the old the old line of um of uh the town the movie you know yeah i can't tell you what we're gonna do you can't you can't you know you can't have a car we take it and i said i i my your answer needs to be whose whose car are we going to take right and that was in regards to i wanted i want to take over his house for the third day of the draft and do a live stream from there and we're gonna do it sounds great so this so we're announcing that right now without permission but i figured yeah who's gonna yell at me you right um but i i i would love to do to do that as part of the day three of the draft to get russilla to run i'm gonna guess because he's i mean he's really he's got a lot of muscle right now which I think would hurt for the speed, but it also may help.

52:38Maybe he's in great shape. I don't know. Four, nine, three. Four, nine, three. Yes. So you're under five. He's a friend. That's fair. That was really, really nice of you. Yeah, I thought so. So publicly you'll go four, nine, three. I would be more interested in like the three cone or the short shuttle, the lateral agility with all that weightlifting. I just can't see that ending well. What weightlifting out of all those things they do in that, what would he crush? The bench press. Yeah. The bench. So huge bench press. That's what the teams are talking about after. Like, Jesus, Russillo benched 580.

53:17But I don't see him as a fullback, so I'm trying to figure out where we're going to roll him up. Oh, you seem like a, what was that guy in the Niners? Yusek? Yeah, yeah. Yusek, yeah. Like a guy Belichick would have taken in 2007, just like I just want him for special teams. Special teamer effort. I like his attitude. Yeah. Kind of like that celebrity basketball game he played. And I'll never forget that. He's still mad about it. He'll talk about it all the time. Yeah. McShay, subscribe to his newsletter. It's great. Listen to the McShay Show. Also great. You can find that on YouTube as well. Great to see you as always.

53:49All right. You too, bud. Chris Mannix is here. You can read him on Sports Illustrated. You can listen to his podcast. What's the podcast called? Open Floor still? Open Floor. Yeah. Open Floor. Where was that on the title list as you were coming up with title? names? The top one were like two taken. Titles are so hard now. Yeah. I think my, this was back, like I started that podcast before I left for Yahoo. So like it was back then let's just call it basketball or something like that. And they're like, no, gotta keep going. Speaking of basketball, an eight episode HBO drama could be written about the Celtics sale where we found out today, $6.1 million to somebody that 12 hours ago, nobody knew who he was.

54:33I mean, probably some rich people knew who he was. People knew he was the final bidder, but now Bill Chisholm is going to be the next owner of the Boston Celtics. He paid a record price. It was not an accident where Washington, the commanders went for 6.05, Celtics go for 6.1. I have a million thoughts, but what was your immediate reaction to the price? Astonished. I didn't believe they would get over six. Look, that's a record. That's a huge number regardless. But the fact that you're just selling the team and you're not selling an arena, that is a huge variable in all this. Like when Matt Ishbia bought Phoenix for a$4 billion valuation, He was getting the arena with it.

55:24He was getting whatever it's worth, a WNBA team with it. You're just getting the Boston Celtics here. And yeah, it's an iconic franchise, but it's a franchise that costs a lot of money, is set to have the highest payroll ever next year. You're taking on something with a lot of bills. So I guess my first reaction was bravo to H. Irving Grousbeck and the lawyers that he hired to sell this team. Because I really believe that he got this. He got the absolute maximum value that is possible to extract from the sales at this point. So I give him, that was my first reaction. Like, wow, they got a price that I didn't believe they were going to get.

56:11my first reaction, because I love being right, was I was saying last summer that this was going to get to six and that's what the NBA wanted. And guess what? It got to six. I think that was a huge thing for the NBA with the expansion coming. Six has to be the number. That's what we want. I think it was a big thing for the family, especially Irv, the 90-year-old legend, who was not going to have any sort of inside job. There's a whole Steve Pagliuca, who's the number two owner of the Celtics right now that everybody assumed he was going to get it. And I can't wait to dive into that piece with you.

56:45It was made clear from the beginning. There's no inside job. This will go to the highest bidder. The most money wins this and nobody really believed it, but that's how it played out and it got to six one. And my guess is that the Pagluka group and maybe even one or two of the other ones got to the six. The point one is so fascinating to me. the point one sometimes this is how it goes this is how Larry Elson lost the Warriors where it's like no he's he had it he had it had it then the other side I think went to I forget what it was like 400 360 whatever it was and he's like nope that's my final offer and he didn't get it and it over and over again the guys that get these teams are the ones that are like oh you want to break the Washington record all right all right point one done and that was it That's how he got it.

57:34So the Steve Pak Luga piece is incredible that he didn't get it and that he came really close and he did a long post today that was posted on social media. That was, I think, one of the strangest posts I've ever read from somebody who didn't own a team. I couldn't believe he did that. Can I just that I would call that corporate scorched earth, right? Like it's not scorched earth like Dan Gilbert on LeBron, but it's corporate scorched earth where I thought the most telling part of that was five paragraph statement that he released was at the very end of I think it was the first paragraph where he noted that he had put together a group of investors that were eager to continue to do that.

58:21to reinvest in the team. I think the last sentence was luxury tax be damned. Like what Steve Pagliuca is doing there is he is planting the seed to be like on the other side of future Celtic fan outrage. Because we all know there are some tough decisions that this ownership group is going to have to make in the next couple of years. Like Sam Hauser makes$10 million right now. In real dollars though, that's like 80 million he's making. He's costing this team. There are decisions that they're going to have to make. What Steve Bagliuca, in my mind, did with that statement was just put himself in a position where if this team does cut some corners over the next couple of years, lop off some salaries, he can sit there and be like, you know what?

59:04I would have done that. I put together a group of guys that weren't going to do that. He set himself up. We can get into the dynamics there. Oh, we're doing it right now. Okay. This is the number one thing I want to talk about. Go ahead. Well, it's just, so you have these two guys. Wick's dad puts up the most money for the team. Wick's the one that's organizing the group. And it starts out, I think, with four people that put up the money. They get the price. And then their job after they get the price is to then go find a group of minority people to then take off, offload some of the money they just committed to.

59:39Which, by the way, that's what Chisholm's doing right now. He's trying to, he is now, he's already put the feelers out. trying to put together a little syndicate to offload some of the money that he's already promised. So that's in motion now. So they get the four, but Pags was always, it was like, Wick, and he's the owner and the dad put up the most money, but also here's Pags. And they've had this uneasy co-owner alliance, but Wick was always the face of it. And it was always a little awkward and you could feel it when there was like a trophy. That's when that Lazarie and Eden's had that too.

1:00:13Some of these co-owner, like Goober and Lakov, same thing where it's like, it's my team, but you have to be here and you hold, let's hold the trophy together. And it's always super awkward. And I don't know how great it was going by the end. because I think when Pagliuca tried to buy the Nets and I don't think Wick found out from Pagliuca is my understanding and I don't think it's been great since then. And I think the reverse of that was Pagliuca found out that the Celtics were being sold the same way we all did. It was, he was not tipped. He was not giving a heads up. So I don't think that relationship has been great for the last year.

1:00:53And this specifically, the way he reacted to the sale tells me that this is this is going to get ugly and i have some reasons for why this got bad near the end but what else have you heard on this i it's i i've seen it unfold over the last 20 years and you can unequivocally say it was a lot stronger at the beginning than it was at the end yeah um and some of that has everything to do with what you said there. Like, Pagliuca is in this kind of with his own cash to, I don't know what the final percentage is that he owned of this group. I heard around 8 or 9 % something in that ballpark. And he's looking at Grousbeck, who owns a lesser percent of the team, but is effectively H.

1:01:36Irving in all this. He is the money guy. He gets to be the face of it. And you're right. There have been some moments over the last six, seven years as this team has ascended into conference finals, NBA finals, ultimately championships where you know they're not exactly pulling the trophy kind of away from each other but you can see some of that tension between those two guys and look i i i don't know but i've been hearing for months now that you know through pagli you could kind of telegraphing this to people in the nba that he believed he was going to get it like it eventually was going to play out that he was going to get control of this team it might take a little bit low a little bit longer than people expected, but he was ultimately going to grab control of this team.

1:02:18And you can just tell from that statement that he's furious, that he is completely bullshit right now, that he is not going to be the majority owner of the Celtics. Well, so I think he, from what I had heard, that he had the money to get to five, which is where they were hoping it was going to be in the fives because that's a realistic price for a franchise that doesn't have an arena. Yeah. The Grossbeck side wanted more. They wanted more. they're pushing the number up. And I think one of the ways this really went sideways, there was a moment in this process where stuff was getting leaked out about the sale and there was an unflattering piece about, you know, that it came out.

1:02:58And I don't even know what Wick's exact stake is, but how small Wick's stake allegedly was with the Celtics and they're shooting too high and there was stuff. And I don't think that went great for Pegs and whatever he may have done or not done and he, maybe he did nothing. But I think there was a feeling that somebody was trying to neg the price and make it lower to try to make it. And I think you look at 90 year old Irv Grossbeck, who's like one of the great business people, the last, like really respected, respected as a thinker and he's tutored a bunch of people and he's a mentor to a lot of people.

1:03:34And he's just, he's rich for a reason. And I don't think it went over very well that stuff started coming out that they wanted too much for the team. Because ultimately, who's saying that? It's either it's like the Fenway group who I don't think ever was going to try to do it anyway, or somebody that was already actively trying to buy the team. And there weren't a lot of people at that point. So I think from the moment that happened, when those stories came out, it started to get dicey. And there's a lot of people in the organization who are rooting for him to get it because he was stability. It's like if he comes in, everything will remain the same.

1:04:03And I think when that happened, people started getting nervous. I would say too, Bill, there were people rooting for him to get it. I do think there were. I was kind of rooting for him too because I wanted things to stay somewhat the same. I do think there were also people rooting for him not to get it though. I think there was a faction there that didn't want to get it. In part because all the stuff he's saying now, and I'm sure he would have said it if he had gotten control of the team. I'm not sure everybody believes him. I don't know that everybody believes that he would be the guy to just pour money into this team to keep it a championship contender throughout the Tatum Brown era.

1:04:44They just didn't believe him. He's got allies within the organization, but I think he also has people that are not as fond of him inside the organization. So I think it was kind of a mixed bag there. I also don't necessarily know because even though there was kind of a whittled down list of finalists, there were a lot of people trying to buy this team and trying to get into the mix for this team. And there were a lot of people. And I heard this through NBA and the NBA stayed connected to the sale process. And I was hearing through those sources that people were kind of grumbling over, like, how are you asking for this when you're not giving us an arena?

1:05:17It's just the team and all the money we have to spend. So there was a lot of people frustrated with the price. and I think it's just as likely that some of that stuff about Wick leaked out from someone not named Steve Pagliuca as it was that it was passed. That's why we don't know how it leaked out or what happened but I think once it happened it changed the tenor of this whole thing where they were like okay fuck all you people now we're going to get the price we want and you mentioned like there were a lot of people kicking the tires on it you know it was double figures it got whittled down to five Lori was in it, the Eagles owner, and then for whatever reason dropped out right after the Super Bowl or before the Super Bowl, right around the Super Bowl.

1:05:59I think it was after, who knows? But it went from five to four. And Chisholm was the mystery guy to me. Even if you were Googling him today, there just isn't a lot of information about him. He grew up on the North Shore, went to Dartmouth. His son plays soccer at Dartmouth and graduated in 19. he's on this like weird tech fund hedge fund thing and he's apparently a huge Celtics fan and that's all we know but this is why it's so amazing when somebody buys a team like the Celtics you go from I could walk by you and have no idea who you are to now you're one of the kings of Boston and I think that's I think Wicks had a really hard time with that over the last year knowing that there's some end game where when you're the owner of the Celtics the room treats you a little differently than when you're not and I think he's aware of that which you know leads into this idea that he's going to be you know the governor of this team for the next three years which i believe is going to be the case because i i believe it's going to be codified in the sale agreement like this is not going to be kind of whatever handshake deal mark cuban had with you know patrick dumont and the adelson family like i think he's gonna have any deal no he didn't have any deal there that's kind of what the problem was like cuban went into the sale thinking all right well you know i'm they're gonna let me do this and all of a sudden very quickly it was determined that he wasn't.

1:07:17I do think even if it's nominal, we're going to get Wick Grosbeck as one of the front-facing owners of this team for the next three years. Now, I think there are going to be problems with that because if you're the guy footing the bill for the franchise, you're not going to have key decisions being made by someone that's got one foot out the door. I think that there are certainly potential problems with that. But I think, look, Wick all along, I've thought that Wick wanted to have his cake and eat it too. He would not be selling this team if he wasn't being forced to by his family um but because he was being forced to he wanted to make sure that there was top dollar involved in the return and that he would get to hold on to his place atop the totem pole as long as humanly possible and it sure looks like right now that's what he's going to get like i had some people texting me today you know basically saying don't be surprised if you see wick kind of take some of the money that he's going to get off this and try to get back into the ownership group in a small slice of it to stay kind of connected to this team.

1:08:17So I don't think, look, he's not going to be running the team forever, but I don't think Witt Grosbeck is going anywhere anytime soon. So his statement, and it was funny because they released this statement from Boston Business Partners, which is the group that owns the team. Witt's the first quote in it. And he says that Chisholm asked me to run the team as CEO and governor for the first three years and stay on as his partner. stay on as his partner. And I'm glad to do so. And then the next paragraph is a quote from Chisholm. I've never seen somebody buy a team and not be the first quote in the press release.

1:08:56Everybody was saying Wick was trying to do this and it seems like he actually pulled it off. And you mentioned the Cuban piece. I never believed that as it was happening, it seemed inconceivable to me that somebody was going to buy a sports team and then just let somebody who didn't know that we just don't see that really happen ever. And the times we've seen it happen, we're like Pat Croce and the Sixers, you be the government. And then it would always go badly within a year. So it says three years. It doesn't mean it's going to be three years. So if I gave you like the Fandu over under and I gave you the two net, like, like boxing, two and a half rounds, is it, would you go over under?

1:09:35If you gave me two and a half for the over under i don't know what i'd bet i go under i go under um i just think there's too many big decisions that are made by a team governor like and i think you know chisholm and his ownership group is going to be the one to be the ones making that decision now maybe there's synergy between the two maybe there's no no space between them no room for daylight they're all in lockstep but the second they disagree on something it's going to be chisholm that says it's my team Do what you want. You want to stay in this capacity as a front-facing owner, as the governor of the team, fine.

1:10:12But we're doing things my way. And I don't blame him. You're putting up a valuation of$6 billion. You don't blame him. Of course he should have that. Absolutely. So it's Chisholm. Chisholm. Okay. No, I don't know. How were you saying it? I've been saying it. We know so little about this guy. I don't even know how to pronounce his name. I thought it was Chisholm. I'm kind of saying it in Massachusetts way, though. Like we both kind of are there. If I see that name, I call him Chisholm. Can he put a social media thing on and be like, here's how to pronounce my name. Please call me Bill. I refuse to believe his name's William.

1:10:43It's got to be Bill. His son's name's Will, which tells me he's a Bill. So here's one of the many things that I don't get about this. For that kind of price, and you're not going to, quote unquote, be the governor for the first three years. I mean, now he's in his mid-50s. He graduated from Dartmouth in 91. So he's in, this is prime NBA owner, NFL owner range, like from mid fifties all the way through to mid seventies, a 20 year run. He's got the son. I have no idea if the son's going to be groomed to have a role with Pat Gluka. His son, I think would have been a big part of it. We'll see with this same thing with if Laurie had gotten it.

1:11:18I think his son would have been a big part of it. Um, I just find it hard to believe you're going to buy this team, do the victory lap, do the press conference, figure out where your tickets are, have these huge decisions like, oh my God, if we get bounced in round two of the playoffs, we're losing a shitload of money on top of this$200 million luxury tax bill that's coming. Let me just turn over all the decision making to WIC. That seems crazy. And we haven't really seen it happen in anything else. So I'm like you. I'm watching it. I'm skeptical.

1:11:57Again, there's too many personnel decisions, financial decisions to just fork over to somebody that's eventually going to sell you the rest of the team or whatever it is in a period of time. I think it can last for a year, a year and a half, maybe two years, but eventually something's going to come up to cause fissures between these two sides. There's just too much money at stake for me to believe that it's going to be this lasting, fruitful relation. Now, I do think, though, Bill, I don't know that the new ownership group really had much of a choice with all this. I think it was presented this way like, all right, we'll say the team, but you've got to take all this with you.

1:12:46If you don't take this, we'll go to option B. We have other offers on the table. You saw it was the Globe story back in January, these four finalists. There were people that wanted this team. And I'm sure that Wick leveraged that and used that to his advantage. Say, all right, if you want to buy this team, you're going to put up the$6.1 billion valuation, but you're also going to agree to X, Y, and Z. And I think that's what they were forced to stomach in order to gain control of this team. So some of the questions that are left is, was this the highest offer? I'm going to assume it was. Had to be.

1:13:21But he's doing a lot of debt and all this stuff to, whereas, because I thought it was notable, Pat Glucas said in this thing, we had a real offer. He sounded like a guy who didn't get the house he thought he was going to get. It's like, I had a real offer. I offered you all cash. I don't understand why he went with this other person. They didn't offer you all cash. Yeah. I don't understand the wick part at all. And there's another piece of this too. And I'm sure you've been around the team a lot. He's pretty devastated that they're selling in the first place. And he's talked about it pretty openly to people that ask him about it.

1:13:58And it's been a theme that has been going around the last couple months that his dad pushed for this. His dad wanted to do it for the estate planning, all the stuff they said. but I think especially with winning the title last year, the team being really good this year, I think Wicks had a really hard time with this, even harder than maybe he's let on publicly. So just staying on now for two more years, but knowing that there's an end game, it's a really weird variable. I'm excited because he's a great owner and I hope he stays on and has the same impact he had, but it's weird. I feel bad. It's weird to feel bad for somebody who just sold something for$6.1 billion, but I just don't think he wanted to sell.

1:14:39I don't. He absolutely did not want to sell. This was his father, and we've covered this ad nauseum, but like his father, you know, recognizing his own mortality and figuring it's better to get your affairs in order with cash and not with the Boston Celtics. Like that's, that's why. I wonder if over the next couple of years that Wick would come to appreciate the foresight of his father here. Like I think he's getting out at exactly the right time. Like think about what you accomplished in the 23 years you own the Boston Celtics. You won two championships. You put together two kind of mini dynasties.

1:15:16You know, the one from the 08 to 2012, whatever it was there, it didn't achieve as much as it probably could have achieved if guys had stayed healthy. But you got that group together. You won a championship. You pulled off the greatest draft trade in whatever history by dealing all those picks and getting all those picks from the Nets. and you rebuild the team that's been in two finals in three years and is well positioned to win another championship, you got an A-plus for ownership. And you stuck with Tatum and Brown. You stuck with Tatum and Brown. And you became the best owner in Boston by 2025, hands down.

1:15:51Imagine if John Henry had sold the team 10 years ago. What would we be thinking about John Henry now? Rather than stick around and watch this team slowly deteriorate, which it's going to eventually, right? Like maybe it takes three years, maybe it takes five years, but it's eventually going to deteriorate to the point where we're looking. I didn't realize we were doing this. I was feeling good. What the hell? We're going to be looking at them like we're looking at Milwaukee though at some point, right? Like, because they're just going to be so, you know, financially stretched that they've got to peel off some of these pieces and they're not going to be as good as they are right now.

1:16:24If you're with Grosbeck, like you went out on top and not only did you go out on top, you got the greatest exit strategy one could possibly have, which in the form of$6 billion, you can take your cut of and do something else. Like you've proven you are a great NBA owner. You accomplished it. You can go on. You're still relatively young. I mean, you can go on and do the next thing if you really wanted to in professional sports. Yeah, I would say he was one of the most successful sports owners of this century. I'd agree. He took a team that had really no assets other than Pierce and no cap space and was able to rebuild it.

1:16:59It's the, uh, the Pags piece of it. He didn't get the Nets. Well, he didn't get the Nets. He ran for governor, didn't get that. And then everyone thought he was getting the Celtics and he didn't get that. He has the Italian soccer team, but, um, I just, he's gotta be dying today. Just dying. But I, I think we all felt like this was probably coming. Like I had hit a point where I didn't, I wouldn't have bet on him. And I, I think a lot of people, But the thing that I'm going to be interested to see if it floats out over the next couple of days is, did he have any chance? Had this turned into a situation where they were like, we're just not selling to this guy?

1:17:39That's the next story is, you know, we talked a little bit. The next story to figure out. Right. We talked about kind of relationship between Wick and Pags is not what it once was. Like how strained had that relationship become? Had it reached a toxic level to the point where Wick Rouspeck was never going to be interested in selling the team to Pagliuca. Because that, I don't know, man, you don't release a statement like that unless you're really livid at how the whole thing played out. Well, and he released a statement right after they put the team for sale, right? He got one up that day too, Pagliuca.

1:18:13That day. I'm in. He was the first one to get in to all that. He made it clear from jump that he wanted to be the guy that bought this team and took over its stewardship. and within minutes after it being announced as being sold, he had a much stronger statement that went out there. Yeah, I think that's the next thing to figure out. Was this just about money? The fact the Celtics could get a record$6.1 billion price and hey, if you can't meet it, you can't meet it. Or was there more to it? Was the relationship between Wick and PAG something that affected the sale of the team? I would say yes. There's another piece of this expansion coming that's now we've established a price, $6 billion if you want in, $12 billion.

1:18:55Teams split it 30 ways. That's$400 million in cash the owners get that they don't share with the players. So Chisholm is buying in here at 6.1. He knows he's getting$400 billion back over the next couple of years with this expansion fee. So it's really 5.7 because that's what Cuban forfeited. That's what the Grossbecks forfeited by selling now. you get that money that maybe goes to luxury tax. I was trying to walk my dad off the ledge this morning because my dad's just like, the Luca thing has spooked my dad. He was like, you can't say like the new Dallas owners, everything seemed great. And then they're trading Luca Doncic for AD in a first and Max Christie.

1:19:35Like, yeah, I'm worried. We're going to do something stupid now. I knew what we had with WIC. And it's hard to talk someone off the ledge on that. I'm more worried though. And not worry is the wrong word. Like this year is going to play out how it's going to play out. I think the peeling off is going to be the Housers. It's going to be maybe even a Derek White. You know, the guys that you have ready-made replacements on the roster. Derek, wait, what are you doing to me? I don't, I'm not saying it's going to happen. I would say this though. I think that this team right now, as currently constructed, is only protected by championships.

1:20:10Like you win a championship this summer, ownership's going to bring it back, right? you're not going to blow up a team that has a chance to win. You're not trading Jalen Brown to the wherever. No chance. Two weeks after the title. Or even someone like Derek White. I think Sam Hauser's probably gone. The second he signed that contract, when you look at what the other contract is going to be, I was like, there's no way Sam Hauser is all for you. I was more worried about Drew. Because Drew's like low 30s and the right team that wants a vet and you think you're the Celts and you're like, this is kind of a luxury to have a guy like this.

1:20:41those are yeah it's it's in that white holiday grouping that could be the first to go unless I hope they keep Tatum and Brown together forever and I love having those guys as a combo and I think historically they have a chance to be something really special just two guys playing together their whole careers like that one draft apart winning titles like that's how many pairings have done that like and how many pairings have fallen apart before they got to that point so But if you're paying$130 million a year for two guys, it's almost impossible. Yeah. I'm not concerned that something like breaking them up is on the table.

1:21:24But again, I do think that you're going to see some guys whacked off the payroll. You saw Baylor go off the other night. Sam Hauser would be watching that. All right, I'm out the door. If that guy can do what I was doing. like I mean that's that to me is is what you're looking at in in the years to come now if it gets bad like if they wind up getting beat in the second round you know for some reason not this year but like next year then I can see it slowly start to be taken apart but for right now right it's more about the ancillary pieces and what you can replace them with like look they drafted Baylor and like that was a surprise that they drafted him they must have really believed in him because their payroll jumped a lot because of the guaranteed money that comes with a first round pick.

1:22:06They obviously believe in him and watch him go off against, was it the Nets the other night? Maybe they're justified in believing that. He can be the cheap alternative to Sam Hauser and be your 7th, 8th, 9th man coming off your bench. Well, the team's in a weird spot. They're stuck at 2nd. You have Cleveland stuck at 1st and the Knicks probably stuck at 3rd and you have a month of the season left and all crappy teams for the most part on the schedule. And it's like, let's try to keep everyone healthy. Let's try to give these guys the minutes. They're doing this interesting strategy with the best guys, Tatum and Brown, but they either won't play them or they'll play them real minutes.

1:22:42They're not doing like, play 25. They're either playing a playoff game minutes or not playing them. And they have the luxury to do whatever they want and try to get Shireman and people like that going. I just think they're better than the Knicks and that if they lost to the Knicks, that would be catastrophic because they've had their number all year and everything's heading toward this Cleveland series. And Cleveland's just lost three games in a row. And for the first time, it's the Russian is cut. It's just a little bit of that. And I just think they feel like if everyone's healthy and KP's in there, we're going to be in the finals again.

1:23:18It seems to be the attitude, right? Yes, that's the attitude in Boston. I would also tell you that there's not overconfidence in the front office or the coaching staff in Cleveland either. Like, I just finished this story on kind of what Evan Mobley, but on a bunch of young guys in the NBA that are potential difference makers in the playoffs. And talking to people in Cleveland, even though they're 2-2 against the Celtics during the regular season, and they played really well in Boston coming back to win that game, they recognize that they have not yet gotten the Celtics' best shot. like they haven't gotten that championship round haymaker to make a boxing analogy and they know that's coming they have to figure out how they they don't know yet how they respond to something like that and look the guy that worries them the most is christmas porzingis because look they've got evan mobley and evan mobley's been great all season long but evan mobley does not play well against christmas porzingis you look at some of the numbers they're not great and that's a matchup that the calves know they have to dominate like they if it's a wash between mobley and porzingis the Celtics win in six.

1:24:25Like they have to completely dominate that matchup between Mobley and Porzingis. And I'm not sure they're capable of doing that. I think Porzingis, when he's right, both ends of the floor is great. So I think in Cleveland, they're happy with what they've done. No doubt about that. They've been surprised by a lot of things, but they're not sitting there going like, we're whatever, 10 games up on Boston, we're 10 games better. They know that a conference final series is a totally different animal. Well, one other thing is they kind of blew the home court against OKC if they are able to get to the finals.

1:24:54They just lost that in five days. They had a chance to basically control their own fate the whole way. And now OKC, and you know they'll turn it on. So from a Celtic standpoint, that's potentially looming down the road. I love the way Tatum's playing. And for me, I just want to know who's on the team in round two. Is KP there? Am I reading stories from people like you with like, eh, KP, hopefully in game three, he'll be back. Like if we're going down that road, I think it's gonna be really hard to win. And then the West, who the F knows beyond OKC. I've changed my mind 20 times in the last week, even since we did the Sunday pot.

1:25:36Like I don't know what to expect in the West. So we'll see what happens. Can I just, just to put a button on the sale and the team. Al Horford I think is the first big test right like Al Horford is his contract's up right at the end of this year like he's still invaluable right like the way he's playing you gotta bring him back like how much are they willing to spend is is it a no brainer bring him back at a two year deal at kind of similar money as he made last time around which is gonna cost you a ton of money as well like that that to me is the first test of how much this ownership group is willing to spend on this team because he's gonna cost you something and real money over the course of a new deal.

1:26:16Well, and there's been, if you look at the history of the team, there's been some Al Horford moments over the years where most of the time they've let the guy go and kept their fingers crossed. In this case, you could make a case he's the most beloved Celtic teammate that we've seen. I was trying to think, I was talking to somebody about this, about is anybody more loved by the people that play with him and coach him than Al Horford? Like that Laker game was so fascinating when the Lakers were going at him and he started talking shit and Tatum was talking shit. And apparently there was just a lot of shit talking on both sides.

1:26:53They kept going at Al. He's talking shit. And when he came out of that game, the bench like went like crazy. They were so fired. They just absolutely love him. And I think that would be a really tough one to leave. That's even that's not James Posey. We want a title with you. I would suck if you left. This is like he's in the fabric. Tatum and Brown grew up with the dude. So you're right. That's probably the first big test. My feeling is if you spend that amount of money on a team and you want to impress people in the city you grew up with, you're probably going to spend money the first couple of years.

1:27:27But we've seen these new owners come in and they're absolutely nuts. Here are my ideas. We're going to do this. We're going to zag when everybody's zigging. And it's like, oh boy, here we go. They're still doing it. They're still doing it. Matt Ishbia did that ridiculous ESPN interview where he's talking about we're building around Devin Booker and he's the guy we're going to keep not to take this a different direction, but Devin Booker is too old to win a championship in Phoenix. Simple as that. He's not too old to win a championship or lead a team to a championship. He's too old to lead that team to a championship.

1:27:56Because that would be five years from now. Yes, because he's eight. Look, next season is age 29 season next year. Now is the time to sell the Celtics as a franchise to kind of bring these two together. Now is the time to sell the team. Now is the time to deal Devin Booker. If Houston comes a call in with all your draft capital, offering it back. If Oklahoma City calls and says, here's three or four players plus three or four draft picks, you are crazy if you're Phoenix and not doing that. That's some of the new owner craziness that's still out there in the league. You think there's a new arena in 10 years?

1:28:28Yes, yes, yes. I do too. I don't see, we should have talked about that sooner. I don't see how you spend this kind of money, but then also don't build an arena. There's also places you can build it. like the seaports become cool again. Like it wasn't when, you know, I was younger and probably not when you were younger back there, but now it's become like this cool place opposite selfie and there's room to do stuff down there. There's stuff there. 93 that, that the place they were looking at for the Olympics. If you go back and read the Olympic stories from 2014, there's a specific spot like past where, um, where Emerson plays soccer and lacrosse.

1:29:02Like when you're driving by going toward the Cape, there's this whole section that is the spot that they're going to make like the hub of the Olympics. And I feel like that, I think it's called like the rail yard or something. Um, I think that's where the arena would go. That's really the only open spot that's in the city in the right way. Um, or it could be seaport, but I mean, seaport's already really hard to get to back and forth now for putting 19 ,000 fans there will be a little rough. They'd have to reinvent the T there and figure out new stops that go into that area. I would put it right on the other side of the hill in Charlestown.

1:29:38We're going right in the town. Like 12 ,000-seat arena. Let's fucking go. I mean, that would be... We're taking our mojo back. I would love to see it, but there's just no way. You're not buying this team and renegotiating your lease for TD Garden, which already, by NBA arena standards, is old. It's bottom third in the league in terms of... Well, there's another possibility of it too where you can... There's a second part of this where you try to buy the Jacobs side and the Bruins in the arena and try to own everything. Because if they leave that arena, the Bruins are screwed, right? They have this 35-year-old...

1:30:21When was Fleet Center? 95? 95, I think it was. My first year as a ball boy with the team was the first year. Oh, nice. So 30-year-old arena, and then you're going to lose your basketball team in like 2005 years. I don't see it. There's not enough YouTube concerts you could put in there. Mannix, before we go, where am I with Bacoli? Oh, he's back. May 3rd. You told me not to bet on him. I did. You told me it was a money grab. I did. You told me he was flying across the world and had 14 hours before the fight and was just going to try to throw some bombs and it probably wasn't looking great, but he was getting paid more than he's ever been paid in his life.

1:31:04So I didn't sell any of my stock on your advice, but I'm still a little worried because he got his ass kicked. I'd be less worried because it wasn't like a eight round ass kicking. He took a shot at the top of the head that completely discombobulated him. And you saw his trainer, Billy Nelson. I mean, Olympic gymnasts have not gone up on an apron faster than Billy Nelson got up there to throw the towel in right there. He was ready to... One of the early stoppages ever. He was ready to throw that in because his guy did his job. When that first bell rang, Martin Bacoli had done his job. It was hilarious covering that out there because Billy Nelson flew from Scotland, where he lives and usually trains Bacoli, over to Riyadh.

1:31:50but Bacoli had to fly like premium economy through a connection because what I was told like the Congo doesn't allow private jets in on like short notice. Like you can't just fly a private jet in and out of the Congo. So he had to fly like Ethiopian air, a connection through Ethiopia to get there. He got in literally two o 'clock in the morning. There was no chance on God's earth. The fight that day before the fight, two in the morning, the day of the fight, Like the day of the fight, Saturday morning, 2 a.m. He got in. And then of course they have him doing like three interviews. He gets there.

1:32:23Like let the fucking guy go to bed and try to get some rest before he's got to report to work in 12 hours. I'm not, I wouldn't sell your stock. He's fighting on May 3rd on this Canelo undercard over in Riyadh. He's fighting FAA jog, but again, they're keeping that fight there. He's fully capable of beating FAA jog, but he didn't take really. I mean, he took one good shot. he flew over from the congo and took one good shot got out got a paycheck which i thought i heard was about three million bucks and you know i was able to go back to work the next day so i'd still keep my martin bacoli stock he's gonna weigh in the 200s for this next fight he's probably gonna be a job but i think we're once again talking about him uh second half of this year i didn't tell you but i put a small bet on because i was awesome i try i try to tell you i know but i can't not bet bacoli ko it's like a blind bet i'm just betting it every time i had to do it So Canelo May 3rd, are we excited for that fight?

1:33:18I don't know. That was your answer. When do we get Canelo Crawford? September. So Canelo Crawford, like the worst kept secret in boxing is that Canelo Crawford is happening in September. It's going to be promoted by this new Dana White, Saudi Arabia, Nikon promotional company. And it's going to be on Netflix. Like that's going to be a Netflix event in September. and there'll be some big names on that. This whole card on May is entirely designed to get Canelo that fourth title back. William Scull has that belt. So you get in that belt back, you can say Canelo is the undisputed champ going against Crawford, the two-time undisputed champ.

1:33:57It just helps sell the fight. That's really what that card is for. It is going to be in prime time, though I think it's interesting. On a Saturday night? Yeah, they're going to fight in Riyadh at like 9 a.m. is what I heard, or 9 to 10 o 'clock in the morning to make it primetime over in the U.S. So it will be a good time for U.S. audiences to watch. Maybe not so much for the guys fighting on the undercard who might be fighting at 5 a.m., but it'll be interesting, that timing. And the NFL will have started at that point and college football will be going. So it's going to be an insane weekend.

1:34:29Well, we'll see how much boxing Netflix does. They're definitely intrigued, but that Tyson fight, I think, was a jaw-dropper for them. And it seems like they're going to be dabbling a little bit more. So their plan, what I was told, was to do one big event a quarter. That's the mindset of Netflix. They're not going to try to be DAZN or what HBO was and do fights every weekend. That's not their bag. But they are doing this Katie Taylor, Amanda Serrano trilogy fight at MSG. That's July 11th. That's going to be on Netflix. Like I said, I think I'm 100 % sure at this point that the Canelo Crawford fight is going to be on Netflix.

1:35:05They're also after Anthony Joshua Tyson Fury. Like that's a fight they want to put on, which is such a huge global event. They'd love to get their hands on that for either end of this year or early next year, whenever Tyson Fury decides to rejoin the boxing rank. So one per quarter right now is my understanding of what Netflix wants to do. So what's the fight of the year? If you have to bet on one? Like the best fight? Canelo Crawford's not the fight of the year. No, just what's going to be 2025's fight of the year when it's December 31st. so Canelo Crawford's not going to be it because I actually think Canelo's too big too strong, too good well I'm dying to see a Devin Haney-Ryan Garcia rematch so those two guys that weekend I'm going to be in New York working the three fight card that's in Times Square that's going to be on DAZN Ryan's top of the bill, Devin's at the co-main event both those guys running against the opponents that they can and should beat and that would set up the rematch between them and like given what happened in the first time we're not cheating the rematch this time no cheating allowed rematch this time we're using multiple ryan garcia because ryan garcia believes that he was screwed by the testing agency yeah that caught him he's using two now he's using the one that that did it the first time because he has to and he's using another one to test him just to get verified information that he believes.

1:36:32But that's a big one, man. That's two 25-year-old, six-year-old guys. With a lot of bad blood. Like, probably the most bad blood that we have. Press tour is going to be awesome. Like, I'm all in for that. All right. Mannix, great to see you. You too. Thank you. You got it. All right. Thanks to McShay. Thanks to Mannix. Thanks to Suri and Gahau and Kyle. As always, I hope your March Madness brackets go great. Don't forget to check out Good Hang with Amy Poehler. Two episodes up. Rewatchables, Days of Thunder, Prestige TV. If you miss White Lotus, that's up there. And then Celtic City, episode four, coming Monday night on HBO.

1:37:04And Max Larry Bird shows up. And guess what? He was really good at basketball. So that's what we got. I will see you on a Sunday.

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