The Wizards Win (Something!) and More Lottery Reactions, Plus the Juggernaut Knicks With Joe House, Tate Frazier, and Chris Vernon

13:58Tate Frazier:Yeah, Hollinger had him one, which I think it's a fair point because if you look at Boozer's record, right, he's won at every single level. He obviously was national player of the year this year. You like the way that he carries himself. He is going to be a really good player at the next level. I think Caleb Wilson obviously is tantalizing. I know you don't like the hairstyle that he had there at the L.A.

14:16Bill Simmons:It was ambitious, ambitious hair.

14:18Tate Frazier:I think he cleans it up, and I think he's going to be all right. But, I mean, just the high flyer and Sean Kemp has been thrown out there. KG has been thrown out there. Obviously, McGrady a little bit. I also think I see a lot of people with Caleb at the four. I think he's going to end up being a wing. I think he's going to end up being a three. So I think he's one of those guys. Really? Yeah. I just think he has the athleticism to be out there. Maybe they slot him down with the four, you know, at some level, but I think Caleb's obviously in that conversation. And then Peterson, I saw Peterson in person at the Kansas Carolina game in the fall.

14:46Tate Frazier:And I mean, he didn't even have a great night, but I mean, he puts up 24 points with ease and you're just like, man, this guy is so smooth, so easy. And obviously the McDonald's all American game, you saw a lot of people defer to him just because if he, you know, just the way he carries himself, he calls himself Michael Myers of basketball, right? Like I kind of liked that, even though he's a little bit of a weirdo, I think that might be a good thing. We said he was the Kawhi of guards. So again, you can kind of argue the Kawhi of guards house. Yeah, I could take the Kawhi of guards. I'm not sure.

15:14He didn't show enough Michael Myers. He wasn't enough of a killer this season. I think AJ should be first.

15:21Bill Simmons:But I also feel like if you end up with Peterson and more stuff, that's a nice place to be. And we've talked about this before when Tate and Kyle Manwra, but the Peterson high school tape is out of control. It's out of control. I mean, he looks like he's going to be Kobe Bryant when you watch this stuff. And I thought, it seemed like he had a little too much weight this year and we were talking, it just felt like he could never get going this season, which of course makes you nervous to take him one. But it also feels like he could just be spectacular.

15:51Tate Frazier:It also feels like he didn't want to learn the college game. I mean, I know that's a little bit banal, but I just feel like it's such a different sport. It was just like, all right, I'll just skip this stage. I totally agree, Tate. What he showed us body language-wise, attitude-wise, is my single goal is to not get hurt. I will do this thing that is a required step. I will fulfill the requirement. Present, present. He raises his hand. Are you here? Mr. Peterson is here. He's present. And that's it. Get me the F out of here. I want to go be a pro basketball player. And here we are.

16:26Bill Simmons:The VP of Common Sense would be a little nervous about the Wizards taking a guy who's already had major cramping issues and questions about his demeanor and his body. You're talking about the old Wizards. Gilbert Arenas. Those are the old Wizards. That's not this Wizards. That's old stuff. I don't know, House. You're bringing up the past. We're in the present, baby. One of the things I love about DeBansa is there's just no way. He's already built a 28-year-old man. And I don't even know what his body's going to look like five, six years from now. But he's just got... There's some interesting stuff with him.

16:59Bill Simmons:There's some defensive metrics that aren't great with him, Hollinger pointed to, for how athletic he is. Um, why isn't more stuff happening on that end? But I just, to me, he feels like the perfect kind of, he could play the three, play the four. Um, he's physical. He rebounds. He, you know, I think he's really competitive. He really wanted to be the number one pick. I think that matters house. And if you drafted him and he actually could talk himself into going there, I just feel like it's a set thing. You know what it is. I don't know what the, the variance of it being bad. I don't really see.

17:34Bill Simmons:With the Bansa? No, no, no, no. That's why. The ceiling with him feels like, to me, the highest ceiling, just acknowledging that Caleb Wilson is more of an unknown quantity because the injury limited how much we got to see him against the highest comp and especially in March Madness where you really get a chance to see like, okay, these are stakes. The guys are ramped up. Let's see it. So we were deprived of that with Wilson. But I feel like ceiling-wise, it's the whole thing and he will definitely be cool with being here in Washington. AJ, strong. We've had some more luck lately with nickname, acronym, first names.

18:17Bill Simmons:Dare I say if he comes in right away, and I think he's a 30 minutes a game guy next year, right? In the NBA. Yeah, 100%. I think he could be like a 15 and 8, like a 16 and 8, Something like that? Is that conceivable?

18:32Tate Frazier:Yeah. And if you look at the front court with Washington, that's a fun front court. Like as far as size, you know what I mean? Like those three guys.

18:38Bill Simmons:So you put him and him and Saar and Anthony Davis with Trey Young and George and house loves Trey Johnson. Like that's kind of a team. The floor is Vijay Edgecombe. I think what we got out of Edgecombe this year for a guy that showed up ready. Playing big minutes, yeah. Yeah, ready. And he took that team. He more than any other player on that team transformed what they were going to be capable of for this entire season. You know, when we did the dumb October, what the hell is Philly going to be? We had no idea. We knew how excited they were about Edgecombe, but he showed up and within two weeks, it's like, oh, look at this backcourt.

19:16They have Maxie and Edgecombe. And it resuscitated the fan base. And if we get anything, I think that's the floor for DeBansa. Now, maybe, you know, I'm high on my supply right now,

19:28Bill Simmons:baby but we like SAR oh yeah there's you know the some of the metrics with him were pretty bad but I liked him he basically had his shot blocking stuff that's what you want threes and shot blocking all right we'll get back to Washington because number two is Utah um Washington had a 52 percent chance to be in the top four and Utah was at 45 won a crucial coin flip I don't know if you guys know they had a coin flip with Sacramento to decide who was four and who was five and who got which set of things and that ended up getting them the second pick. Danny Ainge, who I'm intimately familiar with as a guy that ran my team forever and just the way he thinks.

20:08Bill Simmons:He always goes for superstar ceiling. He's always, if he feels like somebody has a chance to be great, he's going to take that guy and he's not going to care where it is in the draft. Like he was the one guy that would have taken Duran over Odin. It's just that, that's just how he rolls. Tate, is it possible he'll look at the high school stuff from Peterson? He'll throw away the Kansas here and be like, this guy's Kobe Bryant. We got to take him.

20:35Tate Frazier:Yeah, I think there's a high chance just because, I mean, I think a lot of times the college tape is just like additive. It's not the definitive case. And I think a lot of times for fans, it is the definitive case because that's what most people see. They don't see all the stuff beforehand. They've seen these kids since they were 16 years old. And obviously Danny Ainge was there the last time the number one pick was traded and Markel Foltz and there was a lot of people that, you know, were a little upset in the moment that that happened. And then it turned out to be one of the best trades ever for Boston to be able to get Tatum there at number three.

21:02Tate Frazier:So he's been there. He's done that. He's seen that. And I think with Peterson, it just sort of depends on how he interviews maybe with Ainge and if Ainge likes the fit. But I just think it could be tantalizing with that. It's going to be a boring

21:13Bill Simmons:interview. I'll tell you that much from what we've seen from Peterson.

21:16Tate Frazier:But maybe he likes that,

21:17Bill Simmons:you know, maybe I don't think he'll be talking about his favorite podcasts and some books he's read lately. It's not going to be like Con Canipo. You know what I mean? Sure.

21:24Tate Frazier:Yeah.

21:24Bill Simmons:Yeah, that's another one. Look, he fits in with the team they have. Because now they have Jaron Jackson, they have Markanen, you know, they have Kessler who's coming back.

21:36Tate Frazier:Yep.

21:36Bill Simmons:They got a great, great year from their young point guard. What they're actually missing is a two guard and a score and like a closer.

21:45Tate Frazier:Which that's what he played at Kansas. He played the two.

21:48Bill Simmons:Right. So House, maybe they're just happy happy. Maybe this all, because there's a world where you just look at the board and you go, Washington, happy to take the Vansa. Utah, super excited to take Darren Peterson. Memphis, couldn't be happier to add Cam Boozer, like the most Memphis pick ever. And then Chicago, like, sure, we'll take Caleb Wilson, and that's just how it goes, right?

22:08Tate Frazier:And Boozer's kind of a grown-up, you know what I mean? Just feels like a guy that's not going to have any sort of issues. You can make him a franchise-type guy. Cedric Coward fits in well with him. Great and Ryan Grizzlies. Yeah, they're back.

22:18Bill Simmons:It works. I can see that. You agree with that, House? I sure do. And especially Peterson's athleticism at the pro level and him with Ace Bailey. Like, there is something there in Utah that you could point to and say, you know, let's go ahead and see if we can win some games. Well, I think that team, because, you know, that poor coach, that, you know. Will Hardy. Yeah, Will Hardy. We haven't seen him really get to cook. He only gets to cook every once in a while. He cooks through three quarters and then he has to turn the oven off for the last two years. He was going to be cooking meth if he had to coach that team for three more years.

22:57Bill Simmons:It was Breaking Bad. Yeah, it really was. He was losing his mind probably. But I mean, they got lucky last year with Ace. Yeah. That Ace tried to do that stare down and get them to go to Washington. They just stared him down like you're coming here.

23:09Tate Frazier:His agent video, one of the classic draft videos. Yeah.

23:13Bill Simmons:Right. But they've never moved up in a lottery. I don't think in the history of the franchise until this draft. So Peterson, I would assume, but I'm telling you, man, if Danny watches enough Caleb Wilson and is just like, this guy's the next Giannis, we're taking him. Like, they'll take him at two. He gives zero fucks. I know their process, like, there's never leaks with Danny because it always takes him a while to figure out who he likes. Also, his son's running a team and obviously the owner is going to have a say and there's a bunch of people involved, but Danny's going to be the Yoda of this situation.

23:47Bill Simmons:I think from a fun NBA standpoint, DeBansa won and then Peterson going to Utah too is fun. Boozer at three. And then we don't think Memphis will trade that pick or anything. And then, you know, Chicago, just hilarious. They're going to actually end up with a fun team despite themselves. And it will go nowhere near the luxury tax, but they'll play with pace. They have Taylor Jenkins went there. And with Wilson, the only question I have, Tate, there's no chance he drops to five, right?

24:17Tate Frazier:I just think that anything is possible with the Bulls. I could totally see the Bulls having Keaton Wogler. Because Wogler's from Illinois.

24:24Bill Simmons:Exactly. I mean, that's like nothing.

24:26Tate Frazier:In their backyard, they talk themselves into Wogler. Great passing vision, all that sort of stuff. And then somehow Caleb Wilson falls to the Los Angeles Clippers and gets to work under Kawhi Leonard, a guy who I think, as far as the hand size, I think is a little bit similar. And I think it would be a perfect kind of tutelage situation where he could learn under. And Ty Lue obviously doesn't really lean on the rookies too much, but it could be a good situation and a good spot for Caleb Wilson. But the Bulls, I mean, I know they just got a new, you know, kind of front office situation, so maybe.

24:53Tate Frazier:But at the end of the day, the ownership is the ownership. And they've, you know, done some things in the past that are head-scratching. And that could happen yet again there at number four. Or not done some things. Let me ask you guys this. We'll have a chance to talk to Verno as this all plays out. Oh, yeah. Memphis strikes me as a team that might be more inclined to take a swing on Caleb Wilson rather than the tried-and-true, steady Cam Boozer. Because does Cam Boozer move the needle for Memphis? I mean, they have an interesting little nucleus. There is still yet whatever they resolve with Ja, whatever assets they get back, but they're still super in transition.

25:28They're not a team that's going to be looking to try and win, I don't think, 45 games next year, right? They don't have the roster for that. So if Caleb fits where Cedric Coward is, It's like you're just building a really athletic kind of front court situation.

25:46Bill Simmons:There's a little bit of a infancy. Boozer dropping a four would be out of control. Well, that's why I'm asking Tate. Yeah, he just feels like, I don't know what his ceiling is, whether he's ever going to make a first-team NBA or anything like that. And I'd probably like him a whiff less than others, but I still feel like he's guaranteed 22 and 10 guy. Total stud. And he'll be super competitive. Yeah, he's always produced.

26:09Tate Frazier:I mean, I think that's the real thing with Cam Boozer, where you almost talk yourself out of it, even though it's right there in front of you. And you're like, he's going to be an all-star. He's going to be a guy that's in that conversation. So I really, I think Memphis just plays it safe there. But I like what you're saying, how it's like high IQ, transition type team, coward Caleb Wilson. That could be a fun combo.

26:29Bill Simmons:I wonder if Wilson could just single-hitly rejuvenate John Moran. Well, you look at Chicago. If Wilson falls to Chicago at four. and for the people listening who haven't really followed this draft Boozer is like the steady 22 and 10 really knows how to play the game he's just going to elevate wherever he is and Caleb Wilson is like the wild card who got hurt before March Madness all-time incredible college athlete like just nuts like he feels like he came out of like the Faisalama Jam era and there's like pieces of Sean Kemp Tate mentioned Tracy McGrady a little bit he doesn't have the three point shot yet there feels like there could be a little little Chet maybe defensively if he could ever figure out that side of it as like a four I know the defensive stats weren't awesome for him but I'm looking at Chicago with Giddy and Kobe White and Aya Dasunmu oh no they don't have two of those three guys

27:28Tate Frazier:I got excited for a second I'm like wait a second what is going on

27:32Bill Simmons:now they don't think about that though Matas and Caleb?

27:36Tate Frazier:Yeah, Boozellas and Caleb.

27:38Bill Simmons:Who's not getting just his minutes yanked around by Billy Donovan anywhere. All right, we're going to take a break and we're going to come back and talk about the number five pick, which became one of the most fascinating things that has happened in the recent history of the lottery after this. The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. It's been a wild playoff run. Not over yet. FanDuel wants to bring you closer to the court to make all of that action come to life for you, the basketball fan. FanDuel, the best place to bet the team's players' plays during NBA postseason. Build a same-game parlay for a shot at a bigger payout.

28:11Bill Simmons:Or try live betting and jump into the action right after tip-off. Whatever you want. That's the whole point of live betting. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app right now and play your game. 21-plus select states are 18-plus DC, Kentucky, or Wyoming. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat. in Connecticut. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. You know what my favorite thing about the playoffs is? I like, and it's usually maybe a game four, might even be a game five, game seven, everyone's nervous. There's a different level of energy, but game four, game five, for one of the two teams, there's this realization with like five minutes left in the fourth quarter where it's like, uh-oh.

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29:38Bill Simmons:No purchase necessary. Open to U.S. residents 21+. Begins on October 1st, 2025. Ends on June 30th, 2026. Multiple entry periods. See official rules at MickelobeUltra.com slash courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, and prizes and details. Clippers make this crazy trade with Zubats to the Pacers. And it's top five protected, or top four protected. and at that point it looks like the Pacers are going to be the worst team in the league. Cool. There's a second first round pick there. Oh, one Joe House is back. Yeah, we're back. You're back, Joe House. Indy goes 4-21 in their last 25. The Wizards go 1-24.

30:19Bill Simmons:Indy lost 16 straight and somehow didn't end up with the first spot. Falls back three spots, gets jumped. Loses the pick for Zubats And this fifth pick is no joke, Tate, because we move with the fifth pick. There's the secondary guys. Wagler, we mentioned. Acuff, who might be next Kyrie for all we know. Burries is in there. People love Flemings. This is like a potential all-NBA someday guard. And Indy just doesn't have the pick now because they traded for Zubats. Just a staggering kick in the balls. An all-timer.

30:57Tate Frazier:Yeah, it's an all-timer. Can you put your conspiracy hat on here, Bill, and talk about this? I can't.

31:02Bill Simmons:I don't think by the hat, there's no conspiracy, right?

31:05Tate Frazier:I mean, I'm just saying ABA-wise, right? The Pacers. Do you think there's a little bit of like, they'll never let the Pacers get what they deserve because they're an ABA team? That's where I'm going here. I'm just like...

31:16Bill Simmons:Wow. I never even thought of that. They've never won the lottery.

31:18Tate Frazier:Yeah.

31:20Bill Simmons:I like that conspiracy. Well, can we talk about the protection? That's the thing. The protection is the thing. They basically made it seem like, hey, there's four players we love in this draft. But that's not how you can think. Because if you end up with the fifth pick and you have to give it away, nobody in the planet would trade Zubats for the fifth pick in this draft. I don't think they would trade him for the sixth, seventh, or eighth picks, honestly. But yeah, they took this chance with the percentages, Tate. And what happens? They get screwed. And now they have no pick. And for the Clippers, this is a miracle.

31:55Tate Frazier:Yeah, it's amazing. Literally a miracle. Yeah, it's amazing. And then obviously there's a lot of like, uh, you know, I, I think this is Pablo Torres nightmare. Uh, shout out to Pablo. Uh, this is, he did not want to see this. The Clippers getting some sort of, uh, you know, pat on the back. Yeah. They got something. It's basically their number one pick, right? I mean, they, they were able to, they knew what it was. Okay. House has got video again. That's good. Yeah. Um, so that happens. Also you had, I think it was, uh, the, the president of basketball operations for the Pacers kind of put out a tweet to all the fans.

32:22Tate Frazier:Yeah. Kevin Pritchard was just like, I'm so sorry that this happened. Uh, we thought that we had good juju on our side. turns out we didn't that's never good when you see that as a fan of the Pacers and uh you know we talked about like that would be the perfect spot for like a Peterson or Caleb Wilson or a Boozer one of these guys to kind of slot into this Pacers team that can make a real run as a title contender and now we're talking about the Clippers and and then being able to get the fifth pick and then I mean you could talk yourself into Acuff pretty easily there at number five and I think that would be uh a big swing and a nice uh pickup for Ballmer and the Clippers so it's

32:54Bill Simmons:funny i think they would take wag uh wogler because uh because he's 6 '6 yeah like a cuffs house i love a cuff obviously but you have darrys garland already and i think they really like garland like he had some real juice when he showed up um that if you loved a cuff i think you'd have to trade garland which we get a little complicated but don't you think wogler could play with garland it's not ideal but he can play on or off the ball and he's six foot six has some size like

33:23Tate Frazier:has the shooting.

33:25Bill Simmons:Yeah, I feel like he could do that, right?

33:28Tate Frazier:Yeah, 100%. I mean, I think it fits as far as those two guys being able to play together. It's not redundant at any point. And there's a team that's sitting there at number seven that I know that loves Acuff and probably would be willing to trade up, potentially, if you feel good about them wanting them so bad to get there at number five and maybe you get some more. The Kings really want Acuff. I think that's pretty much a known entity at this point. So if they're willing to move up, that could be something there where you could get even more assets from a franchise. That's a little bit desperate.

33:57Tate Frazier:So, but I really like Wogler. The only time that we saw Wogler struggles when Yaxel Linda board pretty much locked them up on defense and he's five years older than him. So, I mean, I think there's going to be some growing pains, but he'll get there eventually.

34:09Bill Simmons:House. I had this in my notes with Sacramento. If you're the Clippers and you can just move back two spots and take buries seven. And also you get to trade with Sacramento, which has been one of the most foolproof ways to get better over the last 40 years and pick up a future pick from them i would think about that because burris i like i as you guys know i love burris but um but if you're staying at five i think you i think wogler has to be the pick both of those are are tremendous options for for the clippers and it is proof positive that karma is on the Clippers side, even in the face of all of the great circumvention, allegation, navigation.

34:58Somehow or another, the karma landed in a certain way. I suspect that the league is going to land in the same place, which is we are going to get on with Clippers basketball.

35:09Bill Simmons:Because the worst case scenario here is they decide horrible things happen and they just wipe the... We lost house again. They just wipe the Clippers pick away. The number five pick. And that's that. I had a doozy for you guys. Well, first of all, the Clips turned Zubats, who I didn't even think was playing that well this year, and Harden, who didn't want to be there anymore, into Garland and the fifth pick in this draft. So that's just amazing. And Mathurin. Yeah, and Matherin if they end up resigning him.

35:43Tate Frazier:Yeah, that's true.

35:44Bill Simmons:They have two paths now because they could potentially trade Kawhi and trade Garland and just blow it up and try to rebuild around young guys. They could also swing the other way and make a Giannis play here because they're going to have some cap space. They have the fifth pick, which I think is attractive. And there might be a way to send that and make that the focal point of some sort of trade and take Giannis' thing on and try to keep Kawhi and Garland and build around those three. Does that excite you at all?

36:15Tate Frazier:Yeah, it excites me. I just want Giannis to be saved. I want Giannis to go somewhere. You were talking with Nick Wright about the Hawks and just, you know, if they get that top four pick and trying to package away where Jalen ended up going to Atlanta and maybe, you know, Giannis ends up going to Boston. I thought that was a tasty idea that I thought that, you know, I started putting that together in my brain. I'm like, that makes sense. It's kind of a win-win for everybody. This is obviously played out a little bit differently here. But if you're Milwaukee, I mean, I felt bad for, you know, shout out to Mallory Eden sitting there, you know, at the number 10 pick.

36:42Tate Frazier:It just looked like, you know, it was like Warriors, Bucs, like some of those teams on the back end that maybe they slot in and were able to.

36:49Bill Simmons:Yeah, none of them hit this. None of them hit.

36:51Tate Frazier:So, I mean, this is a way for them to be able to get something for the future that gives them a little bit of optimism. And also saves Giannis because I'm tired of seeing Giannis be wasted. You know, after 2021, I thought we were going to have like, wow, Giannis could end up being the greatest power forward ever. and it has really derailed, you know, over the past three seasons. Obviously injuries are involved and then the coaching. Shout out to Doc Rivers. I think he tried his best to make things happen, but great BS podcast. Glad he's back on the pod. We need him here.

37:19Bill Simmons:It all worked out. He's back where he belongs on the pod every once in a while.

37:23Tate Frazier:And if Giannis goes to the Clippers, that's great for the league too.

37:26Bill Simmons:Giannis going to the Clippers and being in Los Angeles with Kawhi, who's on a similar window of, I think, you know, how many more years is he going to have with Garland and they could patch around. They've been really good at building veterans around there. You know, one of the outcomes of today was it feels like it really improved the Celtics chances to get Giannis if that's what they want to do. Because you saw Atlanta, who ended up in the eighth spot, but that was a team that if they moved into the top four, I feel like they would have been in play for Giannis potentially. Golden State was another one.

37:59Bill Simmons:If Milwaukee had gotten up there with Atlanta and somehow both ended up in the top four, Or maybe they keep Giannis at that point. But none of that stuff happens. So I would say the Celtics are probably the favorite at this point to get Giannis unless Dallas got aggressive. But I don't really know what the other team would be. Can you think of any? Charlotte, no, right?

38:22Tate Frazier:No, I just don't think Giannis is going to be happy there. And then the Heat is basically just like Milwaukee South. Yeah, you just trade spots with them at that point. I don't think that really works out. And as far as the narrative of Giannis' career, you get Boston behind you. You kind of get the media, the chain, you know what I mean? Like you can really, you can really change the whole conversation about who you are as a player because like the numbers tell a great story about Giannis. You know what I mean? And like what he was able to do in 2021, you add in two more titles and you do it in Boston and you're kind of like the 1A and Jason Tatum, you know, coming off injury is kind of like, you know, I wouldn't say 1B, but let's just say Giannis ends up being the guy there.

39:00Tate Frazier:I just think it's a great story for a narrative purpose. And I do think Giannis, I know he turned his nose up to being the face of the league, and I think that was a bad move in general. But I think that could really salvage everything as far as the Giannis story.

39:13Bill Simmons:Yeah, he's in where the KG 2007 spot, only he has the title, but wants this next act and it's time to lead the team he's on. Still, maybe Golden State would be the other one. I mean, Golden State's at 11. And they have the Butler expiring, but unless they just gave the rest of their drafts in a way to get him, I don't know how that excites Milwaukee. Milwaukee is going to want something back.

39:38Tate Frazier:Yeah. I mean, Jimmy Marquette guy goes back to Milwaukee.

39:41Bill Simmons:I know, but he's hurt. Yeah.

39:43Tate Frazier:There's no, there's no real sell there.

39:44Bill Simmons:And if you get Jalen back, you're getting a guy who's going to be second team all NBA, but you're putting him on a bad team. Maybe he'd like that. I don't even know. Or he's in a three team. I don't know what he likes after.

39:54Tate Frazier:Yeah, who knows?

39:55Bill Simmons:He's all over the place. He had his favorite year of his career, but there were different reasons for it. But can you walk us through 5-6-7 with Wogler and Acuff and Flemings and Burris? And then it gets a little weird. And then somehow Phyland has just gotten pushed back when I feel like maybe he could be the guy that jumps. Is there, in that whole order, is there anybody you think is in the wrong spot?

40:18Tate Frazier:Yeah, it's a cluster of guards. And Mikel Brown Jr. was sort of the guy that I thought was the guy at number five going into the season. He had his own version of a Darren Peterson situation where he had the back spasms and Louisville fans and kind of the people around the team were a little upset about him not being able to play. And there was some kind of back channeling that was happening there. But I still think Mikel Brown Jr. has a lot of upside. So I think he could be one of those guys that ends up being a steal if you get him at 8, 9, 10 range. Let's say the Hawks get him at 8. I think that's a really nice pickup for them.

40:46Tate Frazier:I like Wagler at 5. I think Darius Acuff is the most explosive and like the guy that could really become a superstar. I mean, you even saw when they did the graphic on ESPN, the top four picks, they cut out Caleb Wilson and put Acup.

41:00Bill Simmons:I couldn't believe that. Was that the Jay Billis list or that wasn't the ESPN list? That was just the Jay Billis only list.

41:05Tate Frazier:I think it was a Billis list and that's why they did that. But I, for me personally, like knowing Caleb a little bit, I do think that Caleb is almost better when he's disrespected. Like if Caleb were to go number one, I would actually be concerned. But Caleb going number four or number five, I feel like that's the best case scenario for his career. because he's got the MJ thing where he needs gripes with people to kind of fire himself up. So I think that Acuff going at five would be great. Burry's is a little bit older, but it just kind of feels like a surefire guard that you can trust, even off ball at times if you need him to be there.

41:37Tate Frazier:Phylon is—

41:38Bill Simmons:And we know what he is. Burry is—we know he's a two.

41:40Tate Frazier:Yeah, he's a two, and I think he's obviously showed a lot at Arizona last year and a really, really good scorer and player. Phylon's an electric scorer. but honestly of that group I feel like Mikel Brown Jr. is the guy to me that gets me excited you know what I mean that could end up being a guard.

41:58Bill Simmons:Yeah because on some lists he's in double figures. Yeah. In some of the mock drafts.

42:01Tate Frazier:I'm kind of shocked that I mean I know Amit fell for for you know a myriad of reasons I know Mikel Brown fell for some of the stuff I mentioned with the injuries but if you've watched Mikel Brown when he's on he is really really good and he's got the size.

42:15Bill Simmons:Who would you compare him to?

42:17Tate Frazier:That's a good question. I'm trying to think. I mean, he's bigger. That's the other part. I think he's physically bigger. I mean, Drew Holiday maybe a little bit, potentially, you know, a Nimhard.

42:30Bill Simmons:Do you think he's that kind of defensive player?

42:32Tate Frazier:I think he could get there. I think he's offensively great. I just think that Mikel Brown Jr. has a lot of upside. And I just think that the more I see him fall, the more I'm just like, if you're in the 8 to 12 range, because I think 12 is the line. Like when things go bad is at 12. I think that's when you're like, you know, in OKC getting 12, I'm fascinated to see like, do they just take a swing on a Bennett Sturz? Do they take acquaintance? Like who is that player that the Thunder go for? We're all like, oh, of course. They take Steinbach from Washington and he turns into Detlef Shrimp 2.0. You know what I mean?

43:02Tate Frazier:Like who is the player there at 12? But as far as that clutter of guards, I think they all have different kind of traits that you could fall in love with. But I'm like a Wogler A-cuff first. And then from there, you know, you can kind of pick which one you fancy. But Mikel Brown, I'm excited to see what he looks like.

43:18Bill Simmons:So Acuff, if he goes to Brooklyn at six.

43:21Tate Frazier:Yeah. The Kings will be sick.

43:25Bill Simmons:Well, they don't have their 27. Phoenix or Houston. One of them can switch. Houston can switch with them. So they kind of have to be good next year, right? But Acuff is an investment in somebody that you're hoping can be pretty special. Who knows if he's... It's pretty rare for a point guard to come into the league and be awesome right away. And there's some feeling and some feedback about the Nets that they might want to say, fuck it. We're tired of... The lottery just didn't work out for us two years in a row, right? We tried to game this system twice. Each time we got screwed, let's just trade the pick for a star.

44:07Bill Simmons:I'm going to read you some names. Sadly, I think House might be dead. I'm not sure what happened. Did House text us? Oh, they're getting it fixed.

44:16Tate Frazier:Yeah, they're getting it fixed. A part of my mind is concerned about House right now. I think he's on too much of a high.

44:20Bill Simmons:I think maybe the DA... The Bloody Marys hit. Maybe he put something in his Bloody Marys and the drug police came. Paolo Bancaro for the sixth pick. That feels like a no for Orlando. I'm just giving you some guys.

44:36Tate Frazier:Okay. I think it's a no, but I mean, Paolo would say yes.

44:41Bill Simmons:Right. Well, but I guess for Orlando, it's like we're way over the tax. We get to reboot a little bit. That's a no. I'm just listing names. Don't get mad at me, people watching. Jalen Williams on OKC, which would allow OKC to get out of all this money stuff that they have coming. They could grab somebody awesome at six. I don't think they would trade Jalen Williams for six. If we're moving to the top three, that becomes a different story. But six now, crossing him off. Mobley gets a little more interesting. Especially if Cleveland gets bounced in five, and we've seen Mobley kind of level off and just be an 18-9 guy.

45:24Bill Simmons:And Cleveland's way over the tax, and could they just reset this? You let Harden go. Maybe you trade Mitchell, and this is just a complete reset. but Jamal Murray at 15 was the most fun one where you just put Acuff on Denver and you put Jamal Murray on Brooklyn. You have a vet. Giannis has to be mentioned. I don't know why he would go to Brooklyn if nobody was there. And then the only other one, it's like Donovan Mitchell, Jalen Brown. I don't see how that makes sense for Brooklyn.

45:52Tate Frazier:Yeah. The Palo one is the one that got my attention the most out of those.

45:57Bill Simmons:Oh, interesting.

45:58Tate Frazier:Yeah. Just because, I mean, the Palo thing just is fascinating. I know they've got to figure out the coach. I mean, you've got the Wagner situation. I know Orlando would be sick to hear that. But I'm just fascinated by him because he can turn it on. And when he does turn it on, you're like, oh, yeah, there he is. There's the franchise, you know, top 10 potential player. And then there's times where he's a little bit off. And I don't know. He's a fascinating situation. I also feel like all the Giannis examples outside of Boston or the Clippers, as we've mentioned, it just feels like, you know, Will Smith and Fresh Prince when he's in the room by himself.

46:27Tate Frazier:You know, it's like, how many of those situations can we send Giannis into? Right. I would feel bad for him if that were to happen again. And how many years does he have left? Yeah, right.

46:37Bill Simmons:Like, if you're trading for him, what are you actually getting back? Sacramento at seven, I think they just take whatever point guard's left. They don't have a point guard.

46:45Tate Frazier:I think they're going to try to trade up. I think they're going to try to get to five and get eight guff. I really do.

46:51Bill Simmons:Wow. I mean, that would be a godsend for the Clippers. You end up with this weird trade you made Somehow you get the fifth pick. You move backwards to get seven for Burris, who you probably would have wanted anyway. And then you get more assets and you trade it with Sacramento. There's no way that doesn't work. Atlanta is another one that I think could trade up if they got excited about a point guard. They're also a team. Jalen's from Atlanta and that has to be mentioned. Yeah. If this was straight up Jalen, Dyson Daniels and a contract and the eighth pick, like whatever that is.

47:24Tate Frazier:how much do you think that's possible to happen at this point with with jalen brown i mean because we you know you guys are talking about i mean he is so smart and cerebral and i do feel like some of this stuff is targeted and pointed on purpose you know right is he kind of sent the message himself that he's like i would be interested in something like that because

47:41Bill Simmons:otherwise well you've you've been following sports long enough now he's doing the thing where there's just mixed signals anywhere and it's hard to tell whether he just wants everybody to be talking about him or whether he actually wants to leave or whether he actually wants to stay. And there's, there's kind of, I, there's no way you're just trying to grab it all over the map, trying to see what's happening and you have no idea. Yeah. And I honestly don't know. Like somebody asked me for percentages of if I thought Jalen was going to be in the Celtics next year. And I was like, I don't know, 50, 50.

48:14Bill Simmons:That's crazy. It feels like a coin flip.

48:16Tate Frazier:He also won a finals. Like it'd be one thing if he, you know, when they won the championship, he did not win conference finals MVP and finals MVP. I mean, he got those. I thought that would be the end of the whole thing. I'm very confused by it. Also, I'm so sad that we didn't get, you know, the Knicks Celtics series after watching what the Sixers showed up. I know. I mean, my God. Yeah. Jesus Christ. We haven't even talked about that.

48:38Bill Simmons:No. Well, quickly in the latter. Atlanta's eight. Dallas is nine. And they have Kyrie coming back. And Burris would be the dream Dallas guy here, right?

48:48Tate Frazier:Yep. Pair him next to him.

48:50Bill Simmons:not positive he's going to get all the way to nine, but that's like, oh my God, what a home run putting him next to flag. There's a really fun version of how this lot of, the only problem is I can't figure out what Atlanta would take. I assume at eight, they would take a point guard. Milwaukee is just taking whoever the highest ceiling guy is left. Cause they're going to be in a rebuild at 10. And then can you walk me through Yaxo at golden state at number 11? Cause that just seems like everyone's just going to pencil them in there. Can he go higher than that he's going to be 24.

49:18Tate Frazier:Yeah. I know Kyle man had him, I think eight or seven or eight on his big board. And Yaxel is one of those guys where he is older, which makes sense for golden state, right? It's a team that it's obviously a very old team. And I know Draymond just had that moment with Barkley talking about Barkley's like old teams don't win anymore. Um, so I, you know, it's a young man's game, but I think Yaxel, my only issue with him going to golden state is yes, he is older, but like the maturity is not older. Like his maturation does not match the age. And I do feel like, you know, you bring in another Michigan guy with Draymond, Michigan State guy.

49:49Tate Frazier:Kerr just re-signed the extension and sort of running it back. Like, you don't want to recreate a whole situation and a whole problem again where Steve Kerr is like, am I, like, where am I in the twilight zone? Like, why is this happening again? Yeah. But it does, like, make sense on paper. Defender, kind of nice insurance on the wing, you know, as Jimmy is rehabbing and getting back. And he could be a nice piece for them that could be, you know, I mean, it doesn't have to be a scorer by any means. But I think defensively, he's a nice cog in the machine. but I still would be a little concerned about the maturation.

50:16Tate Frazier:That would be the thing where the age seems like it matches, but I'm not sure that the way that he acts. Interesting.

50:24Bill Simmons:Well, the one that I think, so Mera, the center, is anywhere from like 8 to 15. That could be an OKC move too. Well, that's what, so I had him written down tentatively for OKC at 12. But I also think there's a world where they try to trade up in the top three, which I talked about Thursday. And some people are saying, because I had A.J. Mitchell in 12 for the three. And some of the feedback I was getting was, A.J. Mitchell's contract is so good. Why would they trade him? Why wouldn't they look at Jalen Williams instead? And because he's going to be at like 45, 48, 50. And they've proven that they can be running at all cylinders whether he's there or not.

51:06Bill Simmons:And I was wondering, like, could they trade Jalen Williams to Memphis for KCP in the three? that feels like a Presti kind of move, right? Yeah. If you're Memphis, they're like, holy shit, we have Jalen Williams and Cedric Coward now. And if you're OKC, you're basically resetting the clock and you're getting some sort of, you're getting Boozer or Caleb Wilson, you're getting one of those guys, maybe even Peterson.

51:27Tate Frazier:Yeah, they know they have to break it up at some point. And also it looks like it works without J-Dub, which is crazy. And AJ has been great so far. And I saw some people saying he looked like a top 50 player. So yeah, I mean, I think Presti will be working the line. So I think that's a good call. I mean, but I think at 12 to me is where the line is to see. Cause like Dalen Swain's in that range, a Di Mars in that range. We also didn't mention Kingston Flemings, but I do, I forgot to kind of mention in the cluster of guards. I do think Kingston Flemings is pretty fascinating too.

51:56Bill Simmons:Yeah. I don't know what to make of him because, and I don't, and from what the rankings are, it seems like a lot of people, because we've seen a little like fears. I know he's better than fears last year, but same kind of thing. Like just a young athletic fast guard. what is he where we had it felt like a big a little more of a sampler size with Wagler and Acuff. But I know Fleming's at one point Fleming's was number five and everything. Did you know about one in three people with plaque psoriasis may also develop psoriatic arthritis which causes joint pain stiffness and swelling? Does this sound like you?

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53:59Bill Simmons:This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Countless hours in the gym, a thousand shots before tip-off day after day on the same court with the State Farm stanchion right there. That's right. The best players put in the work. And State Farm is the same way with insurance experts who put in the work as well. Whether you get a digital quote or reach out to a local agent, State Farm is there to get to know you and help you select the right coverage that fits your life and your budget. Putting in the work is what separates the good players from the great. And that's why you want State Farm on your team.

54:35Bill Simmons:So get the coverage that's right for you. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability and eligibility vary by state. Yeah. Last thing I want to mention on the lottery. Miami's at 13. And if you factor in two teams usually do something weird, right? Odds are they're going to get like Phylon or somebody good. and it just, it always happens. They got Kron Butler that year. They got Tyler Hero that year. They got Bam that year. They're always like kind of lingering from in this early teens range. A couple people screw up and all of a sudden somebody awesome.

55:15Bill Simmons:And as you know, I don't like Miami.

55:16Tate Frazier:What about like Native Mint there?

55:19Bill Simmons:It seems like he's dropping.

55:21Tate Frazier:He is dropping, but I just don't think there is the tools that are there. Like I'm not completely out on Native Mint. I know that every time I see a new board, it's like Nate events down to like 18, 20 range. But there were talks last year going into the season where Nate Amit was going to be in the top four. He was going to be, you know, instead of Caleb Wilson, it was Nate Amit, you know? So I still think there's maybe a team that talks themselves into taking him in that 14, you know, 13 to 15 range.

55:45Bill Simmons:All right, so I'm putting you on the spot. The best player from this draft will be 10 years from now, people are throwing this clip back in your face.

55:55Tate Frazier:I don't want to say it because I don't want it to get thrown back in his face, but I'm going to say it because why not? Caleb Wilson.

56:01Bill Simmons:So that's not just a North Carolina thing.

56:03Tate Frazier:No, I mean, I honestly, I could take the blinders off and I could just say to myself, my God, this guy is incredible. So, I mean, AJ, Caleb, Verno. Yeah.

56:19Bill Simmons:Tate just said he thought Caleb Wilson was going to be the best guy from this lottery in 10 years. Chris Vernon is here, by the way, host of the mismatch. located in Memphis, winner of the third pick in the NBA draft. And I can't wait to hear who you want them to take. Oh, listen, this Boozer Wilson debate is going to feed families. My family for the next month and a half. This is going to be great because I think the expectation, isn't it right? The Bansill will go one, Peterson will go two because they don't need a four in Utah. And so the Grizzlies, they're sitting at three. that's going to be the debate.

56:59Everybody is going to try to decide whether or not they prefer Cam Boozer or they prefer Caleb Wilson. The sure thing or like what Tate says, the guy with - The ceiling guy. Yeah, right, the ceiling guy.

57:13Bill Simmons:Well, so who, let's dive into the psyche of Memphis and the great grind Grizzlies that was the most beloved Memphis team of all time. Who is more Memphis of those two guys? I mean, I will say that Wilson is, there's two ways to go look at it, right? Because I don't think people would necessarily think Marc Gasol, but Marc Gasol is like totally embodied Memphis. Now, he did go to high school there. He had an awareness of the city prior to, but he is a serious, doesn't take any crap, gets the job done, right? He doesn't go about it in some kind of flashy way. So I think that could be viewed as blue collar.

57:59Certainly, Wilson has got the whole, like, I have this crazy motor, that kind of. So I think, honestly, I think both of them can fit in terms of the city. Wilson's the kind of guy that will, it'll be every kid's favorite player. He'll be the one smiling. Like he's got, he's got like a personality. Whereas a boozer is obviously much more businesslike, but what, what fans respect is guys that, you know, especially in a blue collar town like Memphis, they just respect guys that give it honest effort every single night. And I think that both of them, you're getting both of that.

58:41Bill Simmons:Yeah. Both, both of them do that, right? They'd go about it in different ways. Certainly Wilson's flashier, but you could be playing against anybody and boozer is still booze doesn't half-ass it against anybody. And so it's just the idea that you bring your lunch pail to work and you give an honest effort every night. All right, Tate, give us your last thoughts because Double House is going to come back into the Zoom. It feels like we've fixed the special effects. House doubled during the podcast. All of a sudden he was in two feeds. Yeah, he had two Zooms open. It was a disaster. So give us your Memphis take before we go.

59:19Bill Simmons:Who do you want them to take?

59:20Tate Frazier:I think they should take Caleb Wilson because I think Cedric Coward and Caleb Wilson is a fun combination. Also, like John Morant, the high-flying John Morant. Oh, my God.

59:27Bill Simmons:That's a league pass team. Yeah.

59:29Tate Frazier:Like, you get a perfect dunk highlights galore. You got two high IQ guys with Cedric Coward. I think that's great. It would be fun. Hold on. Hold on.

59:38Bill Simmons:Didn't Boozer play in Chicago, the dad? Yeah.

59:41Tate Frazier:Yes.

59:41Bill Simmons:I have a vague memory of him ending up there, and it wasn't great. Yeah. and let's pause on the whole John Moran flying around dunking I'm saying it back in the day I'm saying

59:53Tate Frazier:we can restart the clock on a different guy you know what I mean like let's have some fun I gotta tell you Bill in absolute stunned disbelief that Tate prefers the Carolina guy to the Duke guy I have no disrespect towards I like both guys I think it's a win-win

1:00:13Bill Simmons:Tate will call it like it is, but if it's a UNC guy that he loves, he's going to ride for that UNC guy.

1:00:19Tate Frazier:If he played in Georgia, I would say the same thing. I'll say that.

1:00:22Bill Simmons:Tate, we'll see you on Ringer Tailgate this week. We're letting you go. Thanks for hanging on, especially with the traumatic house disappearance. I'm glad we were able to go through that together. I'm worried about him.

1:00:29Tate Frazier:I hope he gets in. Thanks, guys. Good to see you, Verno. Good to see you.

1:00:31Bill Simmons:Bye, Tate.

1:00:32Tate Frazier:Good to see you, Tate.

1:00:33Bill Simmons:Verno. How drunk is he? How drunk is House? House was fairly coherent. What? Yeah, he's popping back on right now. There is no chance if Memphis would have popped up one. I'm on this thing. Did you, did you feel like you just wanted to get in the four? Did, were you like, yes, yes. Yeah. Cause that's how I think with this draft, you just want to be in the four. It was just, you know, whenever you go through miserable punted seasons, you just want the end to justify the means. And so being in the top four meant that it was worth it. And you know, So like, I'll give you, for instance, the very end of the season, and this is the worst thing to go through, is when you're playing games where it's like, who wants to lose more?

1:01:21But you guys even talked about it, I recall. There was a game that was coming up with Memphis versus Dallas. And people were like, this thing should be on league pass. Right. And Memphis was better at the end of the season at losing on purpose. Well, now you look up at the end, Dallas is picking nine. And Memphis is picking three. They had the same record. they had the exact same record at that game. And now that is how sometimes this can fall. And so if you're a Dallas fan, I think you're looking at it and go, what was the point of that? We're picking nine, right?

1:01:55Bill Simmons:We had that the Durant year. Yeah. The worst team, terrible. And then we fell to five. We fell to the Jeff Green pick. It was devastating. Oh, Bill, I hosted a bar filled with Memphis Grizzlies fans on ESPN. That's right. You had the Mike Conley. You had Mike Conley. On ESPN, we had one huge blow-up doll of Greg Oden in a Memphis uniform and one huge blow-up doll of Durant. And, oh, my God, the amount of alcohol that was consumed that night after it popped up four. and the radio broadcaster for the Grizzlies got on the stage and he's like, Chris Bosh was drafted number four and everybody was like, boo!

1:02:41Fuck you!

1:02:44House, congratulations!

1:02:46Bill Simmons:Bruno, congrats to you, baby. We fell to five that year and it was like, are they going to take Jeff Green or Yee-Zhin Lan? And I was like, shoot me! Where's the bar? The chairman! Bruno, who are you going to take? You're going to take a three. Oh, I just right before you came on with Tate was on, I was saying like I got six weeks of Cam Boozer, Caleb Wilson debate. This is going to be great. This is going to be great because they're look, I love both of them. I don't think there's not like a wrong choice. And that's why that's why everybody is euphoric, because if you were able to get in the top four, you're not making the wrong choice.

1:03:27That's how it feels, at least today. I felt like that way because the lottery happened this afternoon. I was like, as long as we get in top four, I'm cool. I'll take any of them.

1:03:36Bill Simmons:I asked Tate before you guys came on if OKC offered Jalen Williams to Memphis for the third pick and took back the Caldwell Pope expiring, would you consider it? I don't think they would because I think what's happening now... Wow. He was... What was he? Second or third team All-NBA last year? Yeah, yeah, he was. Like 23? Here's what I tell you. But he's already signed his contract, Bill. Yeah. And one of the things we are learning is that I think this is all evolving where you're going to have to have major contributors on rookie contracts and probably multiple major contributors on rookie contracts.

1:04:17Bill Simmons:Well, that was like the Celtics with Joe Mazzola in the playoffs when guys like Hugo and, oh, no, he didn't play them. But technically, I agree with you. No, I mean. I think you're right. That is what's going to happen because what ends up happening is because you can have second tier stars, right? So Desmond Baines signs a max and Franz Wagner gets his under an 80 million. And so then you've got when, because that's the only way you're going to keep these guys is by paying them. But there's only so many that actually probably move the needle enough. And then if you accumulate a couple of them now, that's got to be good enough, right?

1:04:56And you're up against it. And so I do think that the value now more than ever is getting these guys that can contribute immediately because now you get them for four years and you've got a good enough, you're able to build out. You think about even what I just went through with the Grizzlies. The best team was when those guys were on the rookie deals. that's when you were able to have Tyus Jones and DeAnthony Melton and Kyle Anderson and Brandon Clark and like your bench was really good too but I think kind of the only way you can have like you're either going to overpay a bunch of starters right and or you're going to have these guys on rookie deals I think the best teams are going to be young I do well that's why the Celtics

1:05:46Bill Simmons:are in such an interesting spot with Jalen here if they can try to trade. That would be one of the logic, especially with the way that Tate and I talked about how the draft broke, where you have like Brooklyn at six. It was like, well, we don't want to suck again. Can we get a star for this pick? Or Atlanta at eight? And could the Celtics end up, if Jalen does want to leave or they decide maybe it's time, is that the kind of trade if Giannis isn't sitting there trying to get a young guy back on a cheaper thing and then try to spend the money elsewhere? is a way. You agree with that house, or would you rather keep Jalen and make a run at it?

1:06:20I think you're not that far away if you have both Tatum and Brown. We kind of have a good track record of that based on

1:06:28Bill Simmons:the success that they've had. Jalen wants his own team. That's where the problem would come in. At some point somebody needs to sit down with him and get to the bottom of this so that we're not dealing with this nonsense, you know, 15-year-old drama silliness, the twitch and whatever. Can that person not be Trace McGrady?

1:06:49Bill Simmons:did you see that last time what the fuck was that I didn't actually talk to Jalen I just saw I noticed the body language and I was also down 3-1 and blew it and I know how frustrated that is what are you saying also Jalen just said this was the best year of his career so his body language was bad that was a mess man they should have rehearsed that one better we know you talked to Jalen Brown it's fine Just fucking admit it. I want to say, though, to Verno's point that here in Washington, the defense that the decision makers offer up for why they traded Denny Avdia was because of wanting a core group of guys all between ages 19 and 22 that are basically on the same contract trajectory and let them all come together at the same time.

1:07:44That's why this number one pick is especially valuable for the Washington situation, because now you have four or five guys that are all in that same class, that same category. And we'll see if any of them actually, you know, if it plays out, but promising Saar, promising Keyshawn George, promising Will Riley, promising this number one overall pick. And you put a veteran or two into it, and it's interesting. Well, and you really just need two of them to hit, right? Because, look, Oklahoma City was able to move off of Giddy. Giddy was a hit, right? Like, that's a hit pick. And then by the time it was time to pay him, they're able to swing that into Caruso because they had other ones that were going to hit.

1:08:25Bill Simmons:Right. Well, OKC, we got to talk about them really quick. They're 7-0 in the playoffs. We haven't talked basketball at all. We've been talking about the lottery for a full hour. They're 7-0 in the playoffs. I talked about Thursday night this AJ Mitchell situation where he's going to make $3 million a year next year and this is a guy who feels like he could almost run his own team at this point they have the big Jalen Williams contract and big SGA and Chet and they're going to have to do some gymnastics pretty soon they have this 12th pick which to Verno's point this is what you want to do you want to keep replenishing with these guys in the first four years and it just feels like they're going to be in this situation over and over again the rest of the decade.

1:09:08Bill Simmons:It's really starting to feel like they could be in the finals or the Western finals 60 plus wins here for I don't know the next 7-8 years. And this 12th pick is going to be a good player. And you didn't even mention, right? They got the Sorber kid. He doesn't touch the floor. And Topic. He doesn't touch. I mean, they got two. Aaron Wiggins doesn't play anymore. That guy would have played minutes for real teams this year. Oh, for sure. He's just on the side. Yeah. Well, no, we didn't play subs house. So before the lottery, I was on a FaceTime with my dad for 15 to 20 solid minutes. He's still really upset about the Sixers series and the Knicks series made it worse.

1:09:51Bill Simmons:Watching the Knicks, which that game happened tonight, it was a sweep. It was embarrassing. It was really the most humiliating weekend you could possibly have in Philly where you not only get waxed by the Knicks, but you have 70 to 75%, like for real, of Knicks fans in there just completely taking over the building. And then by the end of it, you go from a week ago, we had the highs of this game seven. Oh my God, Paul George is in a disaster. Hey, Embiid's back, Maxie, Edgecombe. And it's so exciting to a week later being like, is Daryl going to get fired? what's going to happen? How's this going to play out?

1:10:29Bill Simmons:My dad was just like, why didn't we do that against Philly? Why didn't we put Embiid in pick-and-pop stuff? Why didn't we just hound Maxie? What the fuck were we doing? Yeah, especially with the way that, obviously, they've got a ball-dominant guard, and Brunson is a drop-coverage demolisher. It was like, Embiid, I don't care what his stats were, he was unplayable against them. Because there's no good choice to make. You cannot hide him. And to Mike Brown's credit, he was not going to let him be hidden. He was going to be put in every single action until you either pulled him off the court or you just lived with us bombing you out.

1:11:10And they just lived with getting bombed out.

1:11:13Bill Simmons:Yeah. Well, they did that with the Celtics, too, and we didn't make any of the threes. But I also didn't feel like we attacked Embiid like that house. Well, I want to be as respectful as possible. but like this version of Celtics fandom, you guys are fucking delusional. You weren't good enough. You didn't have the talent. Oji Onanobi, whose name I'll never get right, and Karl-Anthony Towns are better than what the Celtics put out in terms of a front court. Like you had no answer for Embiid or any of the size. They had no answer for Paul George playing defense. The Knicks are better. that Knicks are better than the Celtics.

1:11:52And the Knicks ran the Tixas right off the court.

1:11:54Bill Simmons:I told my dad we might have been saved by actually getting our ass kicked in a real way by the Knicks, especially if Tatum wasn't 100%. Well, because then it convinces you that, like, hey, that we got this many wins because we gave an honest effort every night. We were try-hards, right? Sure. And try-hards, when the playoffs come around, get exposed because you can't just win with depth and playing hard. You had a team like that. What was your Memphis team like that recently? Like four or five years ago, you had a team like that. Sure. Or three years ago. It's why people didn't believe in them, right?

1:12:29It's like because when it comes playoff time, like there might be the one Luke Kennard game or there might be the Tyus Jones game. But then as you go up levels in the playoffs, they are just going to hone in on that and then you're going to find out like, okay, I've actually got really five that can play in this. I don't really have 10 that can play in this. I mean, hell, even in the Minnesota series during one of the Grizzlies best seasons, they made, the Grizzlies benched Steven Adams and played Xavier Tillman at center because Towns just played him off the floor completely. They were like, and that was in the first round of the playoffs.

1:13:13It's like once you can, if you give an honest effort and you play hard every single night, you can win a lot of regular season games. And I'll give Missoula and the Celtics credit for doing that. But I think House is right. When it came down to talent, in the end, it's still, you know, Namias Kada and it's still Sam Houser. And it's still, yeah. Right. And it's not your fault. It's not the Celtics fault that Embiid came back and was capable of being effective. You couldn't really game plan for Embiid being part of the playoff series. Also, who could have predicted Derek White being awful? Like, not like...

1:13:47I know. Well, they put a lot of miles on him. He was awful.

1:13:50Bill Simmons:One of the things we were talking about was Paul George comes back from the suspension. By the way, Skip Bayless, who I can't say I'm a fan of, the playoff P-P-E-E was legitimately funny. House, I'm furious we didn't come up with that joke. All the years we've been together, we never... How do we not come up with playoff P-E-E? It was so good. But he comes back and he's got his legs. And Bede comes back from, God only knows where he was, and he has his legs for a week. And then by the time they got to these last two Knicks games, both of them looked like the guys that we picked at our worst contract strap.

1:14:25Bill Simmons:So they got this little thing. I still feel like the Celtics were a little better than a try-hard team when Tatum came back. I just think the whole thing of bringing him back midseason combined with them bailing on the bench was pretty weird. You also started three guys that never play in game seven. That was desperate. That was desperate. The Ron Harper start will live in infamy. Nobody still knows what happened with that. Can we talk about the Knicks quick? They've won seven straight games. Some of it can be attributed to using Towns and running more stuff through him and some of the passing, which has been really impressive and becoming less...

1:15:08Bill Simmons:Brunson-centric. They had a shitload of threes today. They were 9-for-10 at one point from three in the first quarter. But what they've done for Towns, which I always kind of wondered why they didn't do it. Maybe I didn't know if he had it in him, but what they did, it just feels like they're more interesting now, House. It's incredible, and I give Mike Brown a ton of credit. This streak of assists that he's gotten at least six assists in however many straight games. And tonight, you know, I think he had seven assists in the first quarter. And they're real assists. They're not like, I passed you a shot and you dribbled and took a three.

1:15:47Bill Simmons:They're like backdoor layups and hitting guys, cutting and stuff. The thing to me with this Knicks team is they have shown us now twice, both in two different closeout situations that they have another level. And that's what's scary for this run that they're on because they did the exact same thing to Atlanta. Like, how can they make all of these buckets and get rolling so quickly in a first quarter and basically put the game out of reach in a first quarter they did it twice that validates what they did to atlanta and the sixers you know i think comparing them to atlanta that was a more formidable foe a more form formidable situation even though they had them down 3-0 um but for for sure they are they they flew today They were at a different kind of place altogether in terms of the speed and the force that they played that first quarter.

1:16:40And the game was over. Yeah, that's that's twice, right? That's twice that they've done a team with theoretically their backs against the wall should have a grand slam effort. And they just humiliated their throats.

1:16:52Bill Simmons:I mean, you look at the seven game winning streak. They won by 16. They won by 29. They won that last game in Atlanta by 51. and then you go in this series and they were they had a 39 point win a 14 point win in game three that was actually not even as close and then the blowout in this game I like when I'm seeing blowouts in the playoffs with the team like that that's a different level that tells you like not only that's I always the teams that fall behind always makes me nervous and what's weird is the Knicks were one of those teams that they always felt like they were down 8 10 with you know eight minutes left now they're blowing everybody out.

1:17:32Bill Simmons:They look really good. I mean, this is probably the best time to be a Knicks fan, I would say, since 1994, where you feel like, holy shit, we have a real chance now to win. Even last year, you know, they obviously were the favorites in the Indiana series. They'd just beat the Celtics, but they weren't supposed to beat the Celtics. That was a weird series. Like, they're kicking asses now. And I don't know. Do you think they'd go toe-to-toe with one of these West teams, Berna, from what you've seen? Yeah, I do. I also think that Detroit was mega physical against them and really bodied them this year.

1:18:09So if they can get through that, if they can get through, because I think it will eventually be New York and Detroit, and go look at those games this year. Detroit pumped them out. And so we'll see. I do think they would need full-on OGN and OB to be able to deal with that, right? Because, again, you're going up a level. But if they get past that, because they'll be battered and bruised by the time they get through there. But for sure. I mean, it's very plausible that we could see, you know, we saw them in the in-season tournament for what it's worth. Right. At the very end.

1:18:42Bill Simmons:And, you know, that's so nice of you to bring that up. But you remember a real thing. Yeah. I like it. But everybody cares. You want some Adam Silver brownie points. No, they did care. Well, look, Adam Silver's on my good list. We popped up three. House popped up one. Like, that's true. I'm cool today Nick Wright and I talked about it on Tuesday all the mean stuff LeBron said about Dissidia they had to atone vicious comments it wasn't just him we got dogpiled all year all year Draymond Anthony Edwards can we build a four floor Mandarin Oriental or a montage we can't do that Verno you're the richest guy I know help us out He all invested in it.

1:19:28Bill Simmons:It's 41 nights a year plus playoffs. Right. We at least know it's going to be booked some nights. I agree. I've never heard a hotel. What is the hotel that gets this much hatred? We had influencers going down there and doing videos. Like, this is amazing. The Hyatt, I think. And I mean, like, and the Weston, I suppose. The one across the street. I mean, I guess it's not up to their standards. house nba people nba people and joe house love love a good hotel i stayed at that hyatt and actually i was there at the same time um because i went visited verno did the show with verno um and it was during the season and both the dallas mavericks were in for a couple bites and then uh houston was in i was in an elevator with shangun and it's a very nice hyatt but it is not like what they encounter in other cities.

1:20:21And it's a super easy walk straight down the street to the facility. But they want big ass suites.

1:20:27Bill Simmons:They want good room service. They do want all that. And hoes.

1:20:35That's what the big conspiracy is. We ain't got enough.

1:20:39Bill Simmons:You gotta import some. We don't have enough flights. I guess we don't have enough flights either. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. For small business, every hire matters, but the time and resources required to hire right are limited. Luckily, LinkedIn Hiring Pro is built for that reality. It's your hiring partner designed to help you hire with confidence by surfacing only the right candidates without turning hiring into another full-time job. Hiring Pro streamlines the entire process from drafting your job to shortlisting candidates and conducting AI-powered screening interviews. Its conversational interface lets you describe what you need in plain language.

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1:21:48Bill Simmons:Get 20 % off your first purchase at viore.com slash Simmons and discover the versatility of Viore clothing. Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions. We're taping this before game four of Timberwolves Spurs. What Wemby did on Friday night was terrifying. Who knows what's going to happen in game four, but that was, I thought, such a fascinating game. just for the future of the league, that somebody age 22 could do that. I got this email that I thought was... kind of broke my brain about the Wemby situation we're in. Basically, so it's this guy, Bradley from LA, Laker fan.

1:22:33Bill Simmons:And he said, if you look at all the guys who became Hall of Famers, who won titles, who were under the age of like 24, which is basically Magic Johnson, Kobe, Kareem, Duncan, Wade, Kawhi, and Bill Russell. That's the list. All of them had an older, awesome teammate that helped them win. So Magic had Kareem, Kobe had Shaq, Kareem had Oscar Robertson, Duncan had Robertson, Wade had Shaq, Kawhi had Duncan and Parker and Ginobili, and Russell had Kuzi and Charmin. So the question is, does this mean the Spurs are going to lose, or does this mean Wemby is great enough to break history and become the first guy?

1:23:13Bill Simmons:I was like, I actually don't need a Hall of Fame older teammate. I'm going to do this myself. How good is he to you, House? What's the ceiling for you as we head into the next five weeks here? I hate to confess this. I'm still stuck on my old guy mindset. I mean, the evidence keeps piling up that he is a one-of-one capable of vanquishing the entire 20, 30 year, longer than that, history that we've built up, that there needs to be their steps to this. So they need to go in and take a loss. I thought that game one against Minnesota was like, welcome to the playoffs. That's our, you know, they ran through Portland without too much trouble.

1:24:00The first game where they had a team come out with playoff intensity, the playoff physicality, you know, they were constantly into Wemby's chest at his legs the entire game was that game one. And yet the ability for San Antonio and Wemby, they just very coolly recalibrate, reset. And that game three, it really challenges the old artifice. Yeah.

1:24:29Bill Simmons:And maybe this is a new era, Bruno. Yeah. You know, there's part of me that thinks it might be. And it goes back to what I was saying about teams being young. I remember years ago on the mismatch, I did this whole bit where I think the Celtics had lost at some point. And maybe they were like when the Jays were like around 25. And I was like, look, you go back and look through the history of the NBA and everybody's like 27 before they do it for the first time. And that is Michael Jordan. And that is LeBron James. And that is Steph Curry. And that is Shaq and name the great players. They're generally 27 or older.

1:25:05And so we have this expectation, but the history of the NBA tells us that. And then Giannis did it at 26. And then Gilders Alexander did it last year, I think at 26. And so that number may just keep getting lower. It might, like, you know what I mean? Like, because I've already had to lower it from 27. It's like, yeah, we got to kind of got to wait until they're 27. You know, they've become men. They've probably settled down. you know they figured out you know they figured out the game they've got a lot of reps and whatever but it's interesting if there is anybody that would be different it certainly stands to reason that it would be him because he is i think we throw around that he is unlike anything we've ever seen but he's truly unlike anything in the history of the world so right why not him i was

1:25:53Bill Simmons:texting don't ask but i was texting about caitlin clark with a couple people yesterday about Why don't ask? Well, it was... Because it was David Letterman, Howes. No, it was David Letterman and Jon Stewart. Amazing. Of course it was. Of course it was. No, but she had not a great first game, right? And I was thinking in my head about comparing her to Wemby, where same kind of spotlight, same kind of being tested by everyone in the league over and over again. And in Caitlin's case, it doesn't seem like she's handled it 100 % well. Like last year, it felt like the entire league was coming at her, right?

1:26:30Bill Simmons:And really trying to test her and be physical with her. And really seemed like almost like the other people on the other teams like genuinely disliked her. And she was in all these non-sports conversations and, you know, kept getting brought in as a political tool. And it didn't seem like she was enjoying that part. It felt like to me, like I know nothing, but it felt like a little bit of her joy was gone. and some people, it's a lot when it's all getting thrown at you, right? And I look at Wemby and he's the opposite. Wemby's like, fucking bring it on. I've been training for this my whole life.

1:27:03Bill Simmons:You're going to be physical with me. I'm going to make you pay. And I think that's been the most impressive thing to me that at age 22, he's wired the way he's wired where he's got so much fuck you in him already. I think it's really hard to mess with him. Nobody resents him though. That league resented Caitlin Clark. They resented the fact that that's all anybody wanted to talk about, but they're also, right? Like they've kind of been there. They've done that. They're great players in their own right. You know, the Asia Wilsons of the world have been winning MVPs and championships. And yet it's like all anybody wanted to talk about was Caitlin Clark.

1:27:40And so it had this resent. There was enough you could chip away at it.

1:27:45Bill Simmons:Because the difference with Wemby is if you play against him or you even go see him in person. and I know we've all had the same experience, you're just like, holy shit. This is like even three, you saw him in person, right? It's like three times crazier than I was expecting. I haven't seen him in person yet, but I just would say it's a luxury for Wemby. He's arrived in a very well-established league with a well-established collective bargaining agreement and pay structures. I mean, they brought him along how they could. But the situation with the WNBA was radically different. And Caitlin Clark arrived with a giant fan base.

1:28:24She dragged people over to that product because they were so enamored of her college performance. She was a one-of-one in college in terms of that shooting. And she reminded us of Steph Curry. Like, wow, we haven't seen anybody shoot like this before. And now I'm a fan of Steph. And she came over. And all of a sudden, there's eyeballs, lots of eyeballs on the WNBA for the first time. and they're in the middle of a collective bargaining agreement that's about to expire and the entire pay scale needs to be reset and the TV deals need to be all reset. And she did bear the brunt of a lot of that because she was the one that generated the interest that propelled the whole thing upwards.

1:29:02The prices they're getting for expansion teams, she singularly, to my way of thinking, is responsible for the entirety of that. And she missed most of last season by being hurt. And the team did well without her,

1:29:15Bill Simmons:which is another thing. There's ways to pick at it. It's interesting, though. She's way more famous, too. Way more famous. Do you think your wives know who Victor Wembe-Diama is? I think the last couple months, I think it's been happening. Do you think your wife knows who Victor Wembe-Diama is? No way. She definitely does. The TV is on basketball in my house. It's not fair for me. That's fair. I have a 15-year-old, too. I just don't think that he's not famous like she is. Bruno, was there any PCU that thought OKC was going to lose a game to the Lakers? No, not after watching that stupid Houston series.

1:29:58I mean, that was so abominable that you watched that, and it was like... Yeah. I mean, it felt like two non-playoff teams that we were forced to watch playing each other in the playoffs.

1:30:08Bill Simmons:You know how that ended up being the worst matchup, but it was a 4-5. And it felt like they were the two worst teams. Well, because they didn't have Luka and they didn't have Durant. Right. I mean, it was pretty rough to watch. And so, and again, another team that can expose you like Oklahoma City. And you know that you have no chance unless your turnovers are low. That's your only chance against Oklahoma City is playing with low turnovers. And they're going to go out with a backcourt of Marcus Smart and Luke Kennard? Yeah. I mean, that's a tough pill. It's sad. It's going to be really interesting to see who's at that game tomorrow because it's clearly going to be a sweep.

1:30:47Bill Simmons:It's a Monday night. It's not like OKC fans are taking it over. I think it's going to have, it's going to be definitely a weird energy game. Plus, how's the Laker fans lost their celebrity road title? The Knicks fans are just murdering them. Oh. This is a rout. I think Boston might have better celebrity fans than the Lakers at this point. I love what you're doing, but it's not comparable. I mean, this Knicks team has legit ambition to get to the Eastern Conference Finals. It was always Eastern Conference Finals or bust for the Knicks team. That's what they did last season. The energy entering the season was high.

1:31:23The Lakers were always a work in progress. And you know Los Angeles as well as anybody now that you've been there for 25 years. It's a see-to-be-seen kind of place. Do you want to be seen in a place where...

1:31:35Bill Simmons:They're real fans too, though. I gotta, as much as I can't stay in the Lakers We're talking about the court sides We're not talking about the real fans They never replaced the aura of Jack And I remember writing about this 15 years ago Leo never really wanted it, honestly He kind of let down the fan base Chalamet Chalamet has embraced it Chalamet at road games Chalamet at road games Spike Lee and Chalamet at road games That's a different level, right? Like we, to travel to the, I know it's close travel, but still to have your, to have your, you know, your celebrity fans in the opposing arena, that's something.

1:32:17But then it guy in Los Angeles right now, or, or gal that you could put courtside that would capture the moment. And that would feel like, oh, this, this is taking it up a notch.

1:32:27Bill Simmons:I mean, I think you have to go music. So it was like, I think they have to go. I think that I have to grab Kendrick. Like, ironically, the guy that handles his career, Anthony, huge Laker fan, obviously doesn't care about the Lakers. He won't put Kendrick at a game. Well, Anthony told me to whip my dick out on his show today because he knew how excited I was. Yeah, thank God you did. Yeah, not Anthony. No, but maybe you have to do more musicians and not do the actors as much. Well, they still got Flea, right? Yeah, that's the thing. They haven't replenished. It's like an aging contender that hasn't replenished their thing.

1:33:01You know what I just thought of? Who? Where's my man, Jimmy Goldstein?

1:33:06Bill Simmons:He's still, he's going to all these games. I haven't seen. They don't put him on camera anymore. Yeah. I don't know. There's a story there. Oh, there is? Yeah. No. Wow. He used to be it. I used to show him in every game. It doesn't help what we're talking about. We want somebody that's 30 years old or under the age of 40. Last topic before we go. Detroit, Cleveland. I had Cleveland yesterday. I wagered on them. and they barely pulled it out. And they wouldn't have pulled it out if James Harden didn't turn back into James Harden for like three minutes. He sucked the whole game. And then for three minutes became James Harden again.

1:33:47Bill Simmons:Cleveland, I don't think has lost a home game, right? In the playoffs. Wait, hold on. Time out. 20 seconds. Yeah. Would you have rather lost the bet and Harden missed all those shots? Or have... Oh, Cleveland. Yeah. Just for the Harden story? No, I wanted to win the bet. You wanted to win the bet. Yeah, I needed one after. It's way funny. The Knicks have been profitable as well, House. House and I have been grabbing the Knicks lately. Hell, you could have a minus 30. The Knicks were minus like one and a half today. Who thought Philly was winning today? I thought that was crazy. Crazy. But anyway, what do we think happens in Cavs Pistons here?

1:34:32Bill Simmons:do you believe did the Cavs do anything to make you believe in them or no no I do not I do not believe the Cavaliers are going to beat the Pistons I I have Detroit in uh five I think they win game four and game five I do it's a weird one because I don't feel like Cleveland's playing the right lineups now granted I'm a guy on my couch in LA you know and I'm not not spending every minute with the team, but like, unless Sam Merrill's hurt, I don't understand why they're not playing him more. I don't understand why they only play one big instead of two. I don't understand why they play Wade when every time Wade's in, it feels like it's a disaster.

1:35:09Bill Simmons:I would have pulled Harden. I know Harden came through down the stretch. I wouldn't have played him in the last six minutes because he's such a defensive liability, but I don't know. Do you think, it just seems like Atkinson's going to go down with the ship with the two bigs, Harden and Mitchell and a shooter, and he's like, I guess this is win or lose. I don't know if I agree. I also think that, you know, I know J.B. Bickerstaff from his time in Memphis, and I know he feels like he got screwed there, like that he got blamed there. And he coached Donovan Mitchell, and he coached Devin Mobley, and he coached Jared Allen, and he coached James Harden when he was in Houston.

1:35:53He knows all those guys. So if there's anybody that knows how to make those guys look like a semblance of, you know, or a shell of themselves, it would be him. A guy that has really, he's been, he knows what, you know, the way to defend those guys. He watched it every night. He coached all of those guys. And so I am unsurprised that he's got a good game plan against those guys to make them super uncomfortable. Also, they just don't have, I don't think they have the requisite toughness. I just don't. like they just Verno knows because he's an OG

1:36:28Bill Simmons:where's that Mobley at also like they give up wide open threes at the worst possible time so a team that's not even that good at shooting threes other than Robinson Cade's the best guy in the series Cleveland's going to be the most interesting offseason team I think if they if Verno's right and they lose the next two did you say that or how states that no no I think I agree with him I agree with him yeah so if that happens I'm prepared for anything with Cleveland and also like you know Mitchell at this point there's a small piece missing with him in these playoff games that Brunson seems to have which is ironic because Mitchell was the guy the Knicks wanted all the time and maybe this will be the Mitchell moment because this Detroit team is a bitch to play against right they have all these dudes they could throw at him and throw at Harden but I don't know I keep waiting for his moment and maybe it's just going to be one of those careers where it never happens you know or it'll be on the next team or the next team maybe it'll be in Memphis so we all think this ends in five yes I mean I know I do alright so that would be that's plus 240 on Fandle oh okay then they're obviously the underdog tomorrow night.

1:37:52So that's a... I mean, because they're going to be favored in five. They are.

1:37:56Bill Simmons:No matter what happens tomorrow night... They are the underdog. Plus three and a half tomorrow. Yeah. No matter what happens tomorrow night, they're going to be favored in game five. All right. We're going to go because San Antonio, Oklahoma... San Antonio, Minnesota. Who do you guys think... Who would you take? I want to get you both on the record right now. I'll let you change in the next month and a half. But if you had the third pick and it was the Bansta, I'll give you the Bansta house, the Bansta Peterson. And then the debate that I'm going to be having with everybody for the next six weeks is going to be Wilson or Boozer.

1:38:34Before you came on, I told Simmons and Tate that I think that Caleb is more of a Memphis kind of player. The dynamic ability, he could be a three or a four. I think he fits what I've come to understand is what your decision makers like. They like that flexibility. And if that kid can play defense the way that Cedric Coward plays defense, that's pretty formidable. I heard you last week, Bill. You love Wilson. I do. There's no way you can watch these playoffs and not think, boy, he fits in these.

1:39:11Bill Simmons:yeah it's funny because when the way the the way the draft fell memphis got three and boozer just seemed like such a clear memphis guy just because you know competitive i liked how he handled himself even when they fell apart and that when his brother screwed up the ncaa game and he was just like like he he didn't he was the only one that didn't seem rattled by it but i think the wilson upside is i just can't believe the tape with him i don't want to say He really seems special, potentially. I do think, number one, the Memphis front office loves analytics. And they also, in this new era, I do think are going to try to atone for the mistakes made with Morant.

1:39:56They want to make it all about the team, not elevate a star above everybody else that then gets bigger than the operation. And I think that that led to a lot of the things that ended up... the car went off the cliff. And Boozer is like, he is as safe as safe come. There is 0 % chance he's going to suck. There's a pretty good chance he's going to be awesome. And there's 100 % chance, well, I don't want to say 100, but 80 % chance you never hear. I don't even know if he's on social media or anything. He's not. He's an A-plus character. nothing controversial nothing it's like the anti

1:40:45Bill Simmons:in a rom-com he's like they're heading toward the wedding in the beginning of the rom-com and he's like the perfect guy on paper he's got everything and yet Caleb Wilson's over there he's like the bartender whoa look at that guy and all of a sudden we have a love triangle Caleb Wilson there's YouTube clips of him You just watch 10 minutes of him and you're like, is this guy Sean Camcross with Giannis? I know. And he's so electric. And I keep thinking of him and Caleb together. So you have that, but then you have Memphis, grit and grind, analytics. This guy is just like a guaranteed. So it's a really tough one, but it might be Memphis's one chance to get like a super duper star.

1:41:28Bill Simmons:I don't think Caleb, I don't think Cam Boozer is going to be a super duper star. I think he'll be a star and like a couple all NBA second or third teams kind of guy. But Caleb Wilson could be like, I don't know what he's going to be house. I'm literally prepared for anything. I agree. Two good choices, though, Verno. I don't think there's a wrong decision. If you threw him, him and Bozelis would have some crazy-ass dunks in Chicago. They would make the Bulls fun for the first time in forever. Well, Tate made the key point. Caleb is a chip-on-the-shoulder guy. And if he's fourth in a class of four, that's it.

1:42:05Bill Simmons:It's like, boom, going on there. The great thing is you can't lose. And it's a position you needed. Oh, yeah. You traded Jaron Jackson, which, as you know, I supported that trade. We argued about Jaron Jackson a million times. I was never a giant fan. I'm pretty sure your current place is 5.7 rebounds a game. I don't know if you've figured out how to put those together yet. Hold on. One of the guys we argued about was Mobley, by the way. True. Maybe everybody was a loser. We're all. And the other thing is this. We also got lucky because Sacramento ain't up there and Brooklyn ain't up there. And those are Morant homes.

1:42:50Those are possible, right? If you don't hit the lot, if you just crapped on your fans again and you missed out, and you're not going to get a new shiny toy to sell those sweets and season tickets, right?

1:43:01Bill Simmons:So you think Morant's gone, whatever happens. Yes. That's your take. But I mean, and maybe you push Morant and 16 in and now you're moving up again. You know what I mean? Like, I do think that I do think that because it could have gone different if like Sacramento or Brooklyn ends up with the banster or like say they went one, two in this or one, three in this. Maybe it's a little different world. But I do think that those are possible landing spots when the trade stuff comes around just because they're going to need something to sell. And he is fun as hell. He is fun. As long as he plays, he is fun.

1:43:37Bill Simmons:Brooklyn could be your outcome there. Last thing before we go. OKC right now is minus 170 to win the title on FanDuel. San Antonio is plus 320. The Knicks are plus 750. What's your favorite bet out of those three, Verno?

1:44:00So, I think I would say just odds-wise Knicks. Yeah. I think I'd say, yeah.

1:44:06Bill Simmons:Plus 750 is like good odds. Is Ananobi going to be able to be 100 % by the time we get to the NBA Finals? And it almost feels like if he's not, then I don't like it. And honestly, like, look, Oklahoma City's obviously the, that's last on that. How about this? What is Detroit plus a billion? Like, I mean, because 18 to one. Oh, wow. I mean, again. Minnesota 150 to one. although that game is starting right now. Yeah, I think that, yeah, I think probably. Minnesota missed their game three was, if they could have beaten San Antonio in game three with Wemby having a game like that, they just couldn't hit a shot.

1:44:45Bill Simmons:Logan McDaniels was like five for 22. Like nothing was going in. Randall was bad. All right, Berna, we can listen to you on the mismatch. Yep. I'm excited to hear where you finally, so you've landed on Caleb. No, no, no, I'm not laying. So you made us pick and then you didn't even do a lean. He needs to milk it. He's got six weeks. If you put my head on a guillotine today, I'd tell you they'd take Boozer. But I want to watch this whole thing play out. I'm going to lean toward Caleb Wilson. But I may prefer Wilson by the time it all comes around. I'm ready to change my mind. It's going to be a fun six weeks.

1:45:24Bill Simmons:And would you rather have House take to Bansa or would you rather move back a spot and flip picks with Utah and grab some stuff? Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Do not do this. No. You get AJ DeBanston. All right. The first time I heard about AJ DeBanston, he was 13. And a guy called me and said, I just saw the next one. And I've had that. I'm telling you. Wow. There's people with the legend of Peterson. The legend of Peterson also is out there. No. I mean, you know that, Bruno. DeBanston is going to be a major, major star. You cannot pass on it, bro Sar in 22 games of Anthony Davis Before he gets hurt It's going to be amazing He's on the trade block You guys see that thing going around About how the way to get the number one pick Is to trade for Anthony Davis Three times What was the third time?

1:46:19Bill Simmons:It was Dallas did it Pelicans, right? They traded him though Wait, wait, wait They hadn't traded him Oh, you do trade him. Yeah, you have to trade him. I think it's like it follows like the horror movie. All right. Thanks to Bruno. Thanks to Joe House. Technical difficulties. We made it work. We made it work. Thanks to our guy, Tate Frazier. Thanks to Gahau and Eduardo as well. New rewatchables coming tomorrow. Tropic Thunder. Exciting stuff. Congrats to these two guys. The first, the third picks in the NBA lottery. And we'll see you next Sunday night on Netflix. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC, Kentucky, or Wyoming.

1:47:08Bill Simmons:Gave them a problem, call 1-800-GAMBLE or 1-800-MY-RESET. Call 888-79-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelpline ma.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York for Louisiana. Call 877-770-7867.

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