Tiger’s Crisis, an NBA Mini-Mailbag, the Confusing Knicks, 'Survivor 50,' and the Yucky Red Sox | With Joe House, Jason Concepcion, and Bill’s Dad

23:10Bill Simmons:I don't think they expected this in the beginning of February. Because if they did, they would have done more trades. great point. They didn't do anything. They did nothing. They didn't, they kept all their picks and it was clearly a transition year for them. And they had felt like they kind of punted on it. And the only move they really made was Gabe Vincent for, uh, Luke Kennard and who's a better fit for this team. And, um, it's kind of perfect in some ways, but for the most part, you know, they, they weren't even really kicking the tires and talking about different guys. Cause I don't think they thought they had it this year.

23:45Bill Simmons:Now you watch them. People are smiling during games and people are happy and Jackson Hayes is laughing. They're playing golf together. The whole team. People are talking to Aiton on the bench. I said this before. I'll say it again. The trade deadline passing was the best thing that happened to this team. You got to give credit to JJ. All the passive-aggressive stuff, all the who might be here, who deserves to be here, what's going to happen with LeBron, is LeBron going to be happy? All that stuff just goes away the moment everyone's stuck with the team. And the moment they were stuck with the team, and then LeBron missed a couple games and came back, and then all of a sudden, now everyone's happy.

24:24Bill Simmons:Luka does look in better shape, though. I will say that. I agree. He just looks better, and he looks happier. Should we do the conspiracy theory about a motivated man? You know, whatever's going on in his personal life? Pouring it into the work? Pouring it into the work. There you go. Because there's, he might be, you know, if he's a free agent, if he's a, if he's a, as a very prominent person in the LA community and a relationship free agent, and he's out there, you know, wrecking homes and figuratively in the sense of what he's doing on the basketball court. Maybe he has, maybe he's looking, but he's certainly motivated.

25:07Bill Simmons:He has an awesome case and there's probably years where he would have won. He's averaging 34-8-8, and the team's going to be a three seed. Wemby has been the most dominant player in the league for two months now. Jokic is going to average a triple-double for the year, and is going to finish fourth in the MVP, which is nuts. He's having the best statistical year of his career, I think. We've had this before. Like, 87 was like this. Bird won three straight in an 87, finished third in the voting, and had his best year. He had a better year than all three of his MVP years and finished third because this is how it goes down.

25:44Bill Simmons:We'll see what happens. All right, next one. This is from Tom in Adelaide, South Australia. Adelaide? Adelaide. I think that's right. I love the Australians. The Australians love the pod. We love them too. I'm in Australia. My most hated non-game feature of the NBA League Pass, the horrible in-stadium MCs during timeouts. They yell, make some noise and I can't hear you. Constant yelling. It's so fucking annoying. I'm watching Spurs vs. Warriors right now wanting to stab my ears with needles as two morons yell, who wants a t-shirt? Make some noise. Maybe I'm old. I think that's a great email. I completely agree with it.

26:27Bill Simmons:I agree with everything. No notes. Why did they just punt on the timeouts? They just show the Jumbotron footage and you just watch all the same idiots trying to dance and get on the jumbotron that you see if you're at the game. Why do I need to see that? There's got to be some lane for some kind of entertainment for those of us who consume these games by league pass. Give us something special because we're not there in that stupid stadium getting engaged, right? This is why I'm here. I have an idea. Let's go. Let's go. I feel like this is a real chance to teach NBA fans about the sport during these timeouts.

27:11Bill Simmons:If we're not going to run commercials, if we're just punting on this. So I think there's like 12 commercial breaks during the game. They could make 200 two-minute videos about the history of the NBA. And it's like, we're going to a timeout. Here's two minutes on Paul Westfall. He made four straight all-NBA teams, first team all-NBAs in the late 70s, and was a white guy who could dunk on dudes. And he made the 1976 finals and he was fucking awesome. Here's some highlights. And here's three talking heads talking about him. Now back to the game. Because our biggest frustration is all these people under 30, like they, you know, they try to wade into the historical stuff and they have no context on anybody.

27:52Bill Simmons:Well, let's do it. Great games, regular season games, players, teams. Do like a little 83 Sixers thing. Oh, we're going to commercial. Here's Mary Ellie's kiss the death shot against Phoenix. Here's two minutes on how that happened. Like, fucking teach us stuff. Instead of like, hey, I want a t-shirt. Well, think about the incredible, incredible archives that the league possesses. 80 years of stuff. Of like, mind-blowing. And we're not even, I mean, we've been privileged enough to be able to have, we have an interest in old NBA fights. and we've had an opportunity. Well, some of them are on YouTube.

28:31I just sent you Kermit Washington punching John's shoemate. Now, we're not suggesting that the league would run during the league pass, the fights. But the point I'm making is that there is history to be shared here. And people should see what Hersey Hawkins looked like. People should see, like, you know, how Alvin Robertson played. Like, just crazy old names.

28:56Bill Simmons:Yes, exactly. Hey, you know who's awesome? I'm Sidney Moncrief. Here's some highlights. Hey, I mean, the 83 bucks almost, it was their best chance to make the finals. And then they ran into the foe, foe, foe Sixers. And here's how that series went. Like, I don't know what we're doing. All right, we're going to take a break and then I have more mailbag stuff for you. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. This MLB season, FanDuel giving you a chance to call your shot with daily dingers. Make a free pick on who's hitting a home run. And if you're right, you'll get a profit boost.

29:28Bill Simmons:to use on your next bet. It's just another reason why FanDuel is the home of home runs. I've watched every Red Sox game, and I think the Red Sox are due for some power as they head into this home weekend series against San Diego. Specifically Roman Anthony, who homered in a pinch hit appearance in the last Houston game. Him and Contreras would be the two I would think about. And then you never know about Raphael, but any of those. head to fanduel.com slash BS to opt in and make your daily dingers pick play ball and swing for the fences on fanduel an official partner of the mlb 21 plus select states are 18 plus dc kentucky or wyoming restrictions apply see terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com game problem call 1-800-GAMBLER call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat connecticut this episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra.

30:25Bill Simmons:What makes basketball so exciting? All the superior skill on the court. This has been the case my whole life. The craziest thing, I mean, Wemby, stuff he's doing every game. There's two, three Wemby moments a game where you're like, I don't know if I've ever seen that. The number one thing for me is when he does the screen and roll. He's going to the basket. Somebody throws him an alley-oop and he just catches it and dunks it without jumping. It's an alley-oop, but it's not an oop. It's just kind of an alley. and every time he does it, I'm like, I've definitely 100 % never seen that anymore. It's a superior play.

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31:40Bill Simmons:All right, one more Luca question from the mailbag. This is good for us. It's a history one. It's from John. With Wemby's ascendance, if Luca doesn't lead the Lakers to a miracle title this year, there's a good chance he will never hold the best player in the league championship belt. I know you love lists, so I'm curious who you think were the best five to 10 players ever who were never at any point in their career considered to be the best player in the league. So I went through the pyramid. First nine guys, don't worry about them. Tenth guy on my pyramid list, Steph Curry. Was there ever a point in Steph Curry's career where everybody agreed he was the best player in the league?

32:26Bill Simmons:The 2015 NBA year? LeBron's there, though. Nobody thought he was the MVP, but nobody thought LeBron was better than Steph Curry. Wow. That's amazing. So you could say 2022, when he single-handedly basically brings Golden State to the title, I think he gets it for that year. I think we left 22 and we're like, That's the best player in the league. Okay. Maybe. That was the first one I had doubts on. I don't have doubts, but your observation around how does he jump over LeBron? And in 22, how does he jump over Jokic? He maybe doesn't. So that's the first one. So I'd have him. Jerry West, who was incredible, who I still have in my top 12, but Russell was there and then immediately replaced by Wilt and then Russell again and then Kareem.

33:22Bill Simmons:He was never, he was the best non-center but he was never the best player. Never had the belt. Oscar Robertson, Kevin Durant, even in 2014 when KD won the MVP, I still felt like we thought LeBron was the best player in the league. Sure, sure. 2014, absolutely. John Havlicek. Okay. Did we ever think Giannis was the best player in the league? Even though he won MVPs. Maybe after he won the 21 finals. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, so he did cross him off. I think Giannis did have the belt. Dirk Lewicki in 2011 when he ran through everybody and won the title. I don't know. I'm still not sure. I thought he was the best player in the league.

34:06Bill Simmons:Yeah. So he's on there. Elgin Baylor's on there because he went against Russell. So there, I just gave you seven guys. Curry, West, Robertson, Durant, Havlicek. Dirk, Elgin Baylor. It's sad that we couldn't even include Charles Barkley. I had Julius Irving. It was a yes when he was in the ABA, so he doesn't count. Garnett, Malone, and Barkley, all three of those are in. So if you're rounding out to 10. Okay. Brian from Portland, Oregon wants to know, have you seen the ads for this TBS show foul play with Anthony Davis? It's been running during March Madness. I have seen them. Would you ever have thought Anthony Davis would get his own TV show?

34:52Bill Simmons:How many other NBA players would you have guessed as the host for this before you landed on Anthony Davis? And I think for me, the number is somewhere between 45 and 50. Maybe there's something that we're missing. Like Anthony Davis hasn't had a chance to cook. Is that possible? Is that what we think? Behind the scenes, maybe he's been doing it for all this time. Really? And it's finally being shared with us. It's finally being revealed. Let AD Cook. Is it? We've been hyper-focused on, can he play consecutive games? Every other Davis, will he play, you know? Well, he has the most time to host it.

35:35Bill Simmons:I would want Anthony Edwards to host that show. Yeah, sure. I think that feels like a good Anthony Edwards. He's actually funny. Anthony Edwards makes me laugh. Blake Griffin would have been another one I would have thought would have been good for a show like that. Anthony Davis. No, Sonny wants to know, Zach mentioned that Donovan Klingon looks like Gunther, the wrestler becoming the first person in mainstream media to make that point. Shouldn't we start calling Klingon the rim rim general because Gunther is the ring general. Doesn't this instantly become a top five nickname in the NBA? The, the rim general a plus a plus give that email or an a plus general.

36:15it's a it's a tremendous name it works in in in portland especially

36:23Bill Simmons:winston writes in i got by the way please stop sending me tanking emails again i can't chuck and i talked about it on tuesday and it just it's like the gates open winston did have a good point though tanking is like pornography you know it when you see it instead of making more rules the teams will inevitably get around empower the commissioner are to hammer teams that everyone knows are tanking. There's a good of the game clause at the moment. It's not specific enough. The commissioner needs to start hammering people to show he's serious. I've heard variations of this, including a competition type committee that's a tanking committee, where they would watch the Wizards give up 83 to bam out of bio and just be like, we're taking 10 ping pong balls away.

37:09Bill Simmons:You're gonna have 10 less in the lottery after that. You don't think that works? No. The problem is you have to rewrite the incentive structure. You can't have a connection between performance on the floor and the number one overall pick. If there's a connection between game outcomes and getting the number one overall pick, you're fucked. There's no getting over it. You can imagine 10 million iterations, but as long as that link exists, if I'm incented to do poorly, to have a chance at that pick, then every rational actor will do poorly. The only way to change that is to randomize who gets the number one pick.

37:52If you want teams to compete, then you have to incent them to compete. I've seen, I saw a nice thing, a guy in the Washington Post, a law professor said, for the first two-thirds of the season, it's fine, you establish a kind of position, but then you can improve that position if you win over the last third of the season. The incentive is to win when this moment occurs for us every year from the trade deadline to the end of the season. And wins can improve your position. So then you get competitive games because you're trying to win at the end. You'll have a certain sort of place because you've demonstrated over the first two-thirds of the season that you suck.

38:31But then if you really try, even though you suck, to go win games, you can improve that sucky position. And that's desirable. but I mean as long as you know bad team gets number one pick then the incentive is for the number one for it to be bad a couple

38:48Bill Simmons:different people had variations of this idea but I think I tweaked it into an idea that I kind of liked I thought of it from when the NFL when they tell people I'm now going to attempt an onside kick and you tell the other team oh you're onside kicking okay we'll get our guys out but you have to announce it ahead of time What would happen if teams just basically announced we're tanking and you could decide at any point of the season, they put out a basically like best odds for the number one pick, this tanking group. But you have to tell us that you're tanking and you're throwing away. And then everybody who has tickets for your games, now it's 50 % off.

39:34Bill Simmons:But basically, if they announce it and either you announce it or you don't. Once, if you don't announce it and then you try to tank, you don't get to be in that group. This is your one chance stop. So in November, it'd be like six teams have announced they're already tanking and they're just in that group. And then they could try, you could play guys, you could try to beat teams and it wouldn't matter because you wouldn't let you're in that thing anyway. You don't like it. I mean, it, there's an integrity to the games element. You announce. So what's the deal? You're saying you would announce that you are tanking.

40:09I'm saying like, you know,

40:09Bill Simmons:in November that Washington doesn't care, right? We knew you knew that in October that Washington didn't care. No, they were rationally motivated. All right. We have these spots for the tanking lottery. Do you want to be in there or not? Do you want to throw away? You're not allowed to make the playoffs. Your tickets are going to be 50 % off for the entire year, but you can reserve your spot in the tanking lottery right now. So Washington, Utah, like that sounds great. We're in. Awesome. How is that any different from where they are now, which is the inability to put more than 8 ,000 people in the stadium on a Tuesday against, you know, Portland.

40:44I don't know, full transparency? 50 % off tickets. You know, that's not really much of a disincentive.

40:49Bill Simmons:Adam Silver, grow some fucking chest hair and figure this out, please. Clancy writes in, would you trade Palo for a top three pick in the 2026 draft? Yeah.

41:05Who are the top three? I guess it doesn't matter. Let's say it's Peterson,

41:09Bill Simmons:DeBansa, and Cam Boozer in some order. I would not. Combo of how expensive Palo is. Not 100 % positive. He's a winning four playoff rounds player yet from a defensive standpoint. That defensive mistake he made, do you see that three he gave up when they lost? And he just... Got lost. He just... got lost on the biggest play of the game. I don't 100 % trust him as a two-way guy. I think it's impossible to have a fair view, a fair assessment of Paolo based on the context in which he's entered the league and competed. Okay, that's not the question. You could trade him and have one of these guys on a rookie contract.

41:56Bill Simmons:I personally would trade him for any of the top four. Well, the rookie contract element of it changes the equation, right? because... Doesn't this feel like something Sacramento would do? Well, let's think about it. Sacramento gets the second pick and they're like, we can't have the second pick again. Last time we had the second pick, we took Marvin Bagley over Luka Doncic. We have to trade this thing. So we'll get rid of Zach Levine's last year of his contract and the second pick and we'll get Palo and we'll have an established superbar. And we're going to be lighting the fucking beam next year.

42:30I think that, I mean, Sacramento's a bad example because Doug Christie's the coach, but I think Paolo... Well, they would hire an actual NBA coach. If they do that, if they do that, that's a goddamn good trade. I don't think that's a bad trade at all. I think there's a version of Paolo that we haven't seen yet. And I understand all the criticism and when we're having to question effort and when he and the coach are doing the dueling press conferences about who's to blame for the fate of the team, That's all bad stuff. But I mean, he's really talented.

43:08Bill Simmons:I would trade him for DeBansa in five seconds. You would take DeBansa over. The other three, I would have to really study the tape and feel good about it. But DeBansa, I just think DeBansa is going to be a monster. You know that he is a 20-plus point score, a 10-plus rebounder. Yeah. We're talking about Paolo. Is Cambooser that? He's an interesting one. I don't know. I don't really know. Because you said top three. If he's in the top three, that's an interesting... But the question is, could Boozer give you everything Paolo's giving you with higher IQ, both ends stuff, and he's making one-fifth the money?

43:46The one-fifth the money is the thing that...

43:48Bill Simmons:Because they have some big tax stuff coming. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Daniel Z wants to know, you said you would not trade the top five picks in the upcoming 2026 draft for Wemby. I said that on a mailbag. Do you agree with that? I thought you considered it. I thought when you got to five, you were like, you know what? Five, four, four, no chance. Wemby hit my Fandle bet last night. I was so excited. Amazing. I mean, he was. 35 and 14. He crushed it. Crushed it. Flew by it. Daniel wants to know, is Wemby at age 22 number one overall on the all-time trade value list? And who are some of the other all-timers?

44:25Bill Simmons:I feel like I've answered this before, but we'll do it again. 87 MJ, I think, is one. Great. I think he was like first or second team All-NBA, his third year as a guard. It was just, he was probably single-handedly worth more money than any other guy in the league. And this is a league that had Bird and Magic and Barkley and all these dudes. He was a one-man, billion-dollar franchise, basically. For sure. Even though they weren't worth that much left. 1999, Tim Duncan coming off the title. Okay. Knowing I have him for eight years and I'm just going to compete. Incredible. I mean, Kareem doesn't count.

45:03Bill Simmons:I just did guys that we've seen, like post-merger guys. Because Kareem would be number one on this. Yeah, yeah. 1986, Hakeem. Two years in, going toe to... Demolishing the Lakers. Taking the Celtics to six in the finals. That's a good one. Wemby. By the way, I'm not ranking these. I'm just giving you guys. No, these are... probably 2005 LeBron, I would say, because he was only 20 at that point and was already in the playoffs. And you knew like the next at least 15 years were ahead of him and were going to be spectacular. 1994 Shaq, second year Shaq, which I think he was 29 and 10 first team. Magic and Bird, their first rookie years.

45:50Bill Simmons:2009 or 10 Durant, somewhere in there. And then Moses, when he went to Houston, when Buffalo traded him. and all of a sudden Moses was putting up like 20 and 15 every night. We're like, what's going on here? And he was like 20. That was my list. You need to watch him during a league pass commercial. Yeah, that could be a league pass commercial. All right, so I just gave you 10 guys. Who's number one out of all those guys I listed for you? MJ87. That's what I had to. It's not even close. Another loss for LeBron. It's not a loss for LeBron. We turned this into another MJ LeBron thing. Well, only you did.

46:28MJ changed the direction. Daniel Zedin, it was his fault. The direction of the industry. He dragged basketball into the modern.

46:36Bill Simmons:Yeah, because 86, he has the 63-point game against the Celtics. 87, he averages, I think, 37 a game or whatever. And he's first team on NBA. You're taking him first. Is Wemby... I mean, there's the injury potential with him. That's it. That's it. That scares me. With good reason. But I think he's in the area of MJ, LeBron, young LeBron, young Duncan, young Hakeem. He's in there. I have no problem including him in this conversation. I have no issue with it whatsoever. Ethan Jensen has a Wemby question. My dream for the NBA is to turn Wemby into a villain. I think he's the perfect future villain.

47:17Bill Simmons:He's cocky, empowered, and French. I'd like to start sooner than later. I'm a jazz fan, but would love to have everyone start hating Wemby and then we need Anthony Edwards to defeat him. It's the most fun outcome for NBA fan in the next 10 years. Villain Wendy. You know who agrees with this? Who? Jacoby. Jacoby's been trying to paint. I know. Maybe he wrote that under an assumed name. I was thinking the WWE, this happened in the mid-90s when they were trying to make Bret Hart a good guy for a while and the fans weren't really responding and then they leaned into like, all right, we'll make him and the Hart Foundation villains.

47:52Bill Simmons:but Bret Hart wasn't really a villain so like what could be his hook and it's basically like I'm from Canada we do it better than you do it you Americans have gotten lazy we're a better country and they're like waving the flag and like we're maybe that's but maybe he has to do Hart Foundation Wembley I'm from a country that's figured out political leadership better than you guys he's waving the French flag so there's going to be natural enemies of the Spurs that will treat Wemby as a villain. Oklahoma City is there already. Oh, yeah. Maybe, I don't know. You know what? No, you know what's going to start it?

48:32Bill Simmons:If they play the Lakers in round two. I mean, knock on wood, let's get that. So how is Wemby a villain in that series? Because he's going against the Lakers. That's the most popular franchise we have. He's going against all the LeBron fans, all the Luka fans, the city of Dallas, all the Laker fans. The city of Dallas. Yeah, everybody. Dallas is jumping in. Dallas is waiting for Luka to win the title just so they can get mad at Niko. Dallas might already hate Wemby. I wonder, let's ask Dallas how they feel about Wemby. They definitely hate Wemby. They hate, yeah. But the reaction of Golden State, like I think by and large, as Wemby goes around and plays in these stadiums at the level that he's playing at, there is a significant concentration of people that are making noises every time he does any one of the incredible things that he does.

49:21It was loud in Golden State. I didn't see him. When they came to Washington, he was out. He was out when they came to Washington.

49:30Bill Simmons:We're going to have to go see a playoff game. You have to see this. Let's do it. There's nothing like this one day situation. I'll fly anywhere. Nick from Victoria, B.C. Some good destinations in this mailbag. I did that whole thing with Zach about whether this was the weirdest NBA season of all time. Oh, I enjoyed it. He said, one thing you forgot. We were introduced to Albanian Bruce, Black Tony, and the Blazers wondering, where's my coach? I laid out this is the weirdest season ever and forgot that the Blazers coach coached one game and then got arrested in a gambling scandal. Because of Black Tony.

50:12And Albanian Bruce. and Albanian Bruce. Totally forgot that. And then... The Asian woman had an incredible name as well. I'm going to look her name up.

50:20Bill Simmons:David H. chimed in on that. Other things we forgot about. Like Cade Cunningham being an MVP candidate, blah, blah, blah. But he's like... That's not weird. He played his asshole. Forgot about Billups and Rozier. Yeah. You forgot about all the expansion insanity that's come out of nowhere. You forgot players actually tried in the All-Star game. That's a good one. You forgot Philly got to duck the tacks from Paul George, but did it by trading a guy all the Philly fans loved and enraged them. You forgot about the prediction market discourse and Giannis somehow owning a piece of Kalshi. You didn't mention the Pacers going from Game 7 of the finals to potentially having the worst team.

51:01Bill Simmons:You didn't mention the 65 game rule, the Pistons-Hornets brawl, and Westbrook versus the media, which has been one of the weirdest things. And then he closes by saying, I now want to see the Simmons carpool become an annual event with your favorite underappreciated draft rookie. So maybe I get in the car with a cuff next year. He comes to a pod. I just drive back to his hotel. It could be, can we get this sponsored? Let's get a camera in there. I mean, it's not, you're not ripping off carpool karaoke cause this is an entirely different animal. You know, when Jacoby and I, when we were first year at Grant land and we pitched them this whole idea for, I've talked about this before, podcasts and cars.

51:43Bill Simmons:And we were talking like some SUV and doing the whole thing. And it was like too complicated. And then like, I don't know, a year or two later, the court did that carpool karaoke thing. And we were like, fuck. Like we had the idea. I was just going to be driving around in the SUV doing pods. How many episodes are there of Seinfeld driving around doing, you know? Yeah, he did that too. We had it. ESPN screwed it up. Like they screwed up everything when we were at Grand Lamp. Wadfoe. Wadfoe. Wadfoe. Da Bob in New York. He said if there is expansion and they have to move a team to the Eastern Conference, could they open up a bidding war between the Timberwolves, Pelicans, and Grizzlies to move to the East Coast?

52:23Bill Simmons:Would any of them actually trade draft capital or players to want to go from West to East? Would you sacrifice a first-round pick or sacrifice$100 million you're getting from the expansion thing to have just a better chance? I don't think so, but I like the idea. I like the concept. Or maybe you give up Zion in the expansion draft he mentioned. Which is further east? Isn't Memphis or New Orleans? If you look at the map, it's really stupid. Like Memphis should probably be in the east, but Memphis is also really close to a couple of western. We just, the map is too tilted toward the eastern teams.

53:02Bill Simmons:New Orleans is another one. Like it's unclear why New Orleans or Memphis is in the west. All right, you'll like this one, House. Connor from Oregon. As a lifelong Blazers fan, I don't think they're getting enough attention as the Yannis destination. Not only do they own the Bucks' future picks, but they just handed control of the team to Tom Dundon. We just watched Matt Ishbia completely gut a fun finals contender for Kevin Durant. And he's basically worried that this new owner is going to get new owner syndrome right away. Trade all their assets for Giannis to go with Drew Holiday, Dame, Giannis, Denny Abdiah, and whatever else.

53:49Bill Simmons:So they can swap picks with Milwaukee in 28. They have their 29 pick, and they can swap again with them in 2030. I do feel like this is the stealth Giannis destination now. fascinating test of your market theory. You advanced this in the last 10 days or so around what is the market for Giannis? What will Giannis fetch in return because of the diminishing asset? The history of a person that plays the manner in which he plays, having sustained health. That team you just said, that's a pretty good team. I'd be interested. That's an interesting team for me. What if you traded the Rim General, Donovan Klingin?

54:37Yeah.

54:37Bill Simmons:I just used that. So Rim General's in there. It's too bad. And basically, Milwaukee gets all their picks back and more Portland picks. And here's Scoot Henderson. You can have him, too, and figure him out for a year. What about the defensive specialist, Camera? I'm keeping him if I'm trying to win a title. All right. Man. As I said, when I talked about this with Goldsberry, It's going to come down to a desperate team or a team that really is excited to make a move. New owner in Portland. Got my eye on it. There are odds anywhere where we can pick the next destination. They'll come up in the summer.

55:14Bill Simmons:Here are the odds. They'll come up in the summer. This is the email. This is really the reason why you're on. Last year you were on and we decided Dallas was going to win the NBA lottery. And then I didn't stick to it. You said it. You said it. I laid out the case. We laughed. We were like, holy shit, that's going to happen. And then when it actually got to the week of the lottery, we forgot to bet it. We're not forgetting this time. This is from Mike Smeltz. Hey, conspiracy bill. Gotta love when it starts that way. I might know Mike Smeltz. Keep going. It's obvious the Warriors are winning the lottery.

55:51Bill Simmons:All the factors line up. Adam Silver wants to punish the tanking teams. Well, the Warriors aren't a tanking team. The league doesn't want to waste Steph's last few years. They want to keep the Warriors a marquee franchise. Gifting the Warriors the top pick lets the team either add Peterson or DeBansa to juice the Warriors' core, or they trade it like the Cavs did for Giannis, or LeBron signs there. Steph, Giannis, LeBron, Draymond, and Bronny as a starting five, he suggested. I love this. So Golden State, if they lose the first playing game, they would have a 2 % chance for number one. They would have a 9.4 % chance for top four.

56:32Bill Simmons:Your thoughts. I mean, first of all, I'm almost positive it's the smelts that I know. Just for the record, America, I had nothing to do with fat fingering this email. I had no idea it was coming into you. It's amazing. It's amazing. It's the best one. A top four pick for sure. Because then it throws the scent off. Top four pick is one and 11 odds, basically. They can't win number one because number one would really... Can they Dallas? They did it last year with Dallas. That was insane. That was the worst thing. I'll never forgive the league for that. I'll never forgive it. Well, I was thinking funniest rig lottery outcomes where we'd be like, oh my God, I can't believe they did that.

57:14Bill Simmons:That was so blatant. Gold States won. Indiana winning, even though they have like 50-50 odds to get it, but to bone over the Clippers from getting a pick between five and nine, That would be pretty funny. That one. That's that's we're gambling on that. That's the certainty. Dallas getting it again. I know. God. As another apology for Nico. What if they just won back to back? What if they do that and they force because because Cuban's trying to buy the team again. He wants to buy it back. Honestly, Cuban needs to stop doing interviews. Why'd you sell the team in the first place? Why'd you sell it to those guys?

57:49Bill Simmons:And you hired Nico Harrison. Stop talking. Minus, minus, minus. Stop talking. The blood is all over you. Stop talking. Michael Finley had nothing to do with that trade. Just wanted to get that out there. Okay. The other team that would be funny from a rigged standpoint, Portland. 1.5 % chance for number one, 7.1 chance for top four. Just because somebody bought the team and they're trying to get a Seattle expansion team going and that guy would be one of the eight votes. I'm like, I'm not fucking voting for that. Seattle's two and a half hours for me. It's my backyard. It's like, well, can we offer you a little A.J.

58:25DeBansa? There is a, if only there wasn't history, a demonstrated track record of the league doing this multiple times over the last 30 years. If only it hasn't happened 12 times.

58:36Bill Simmons:Exactly. Do you know, somebody told me Utah's never moved up in the lottery. Like in the history of the franchise. Yeah. Wow. That doesn't seem possible. Alec Joyner wants to know, So could an all Jalen team win the 2026 title? That would be starting five. Jalen Brunson, Jalen Williams, Jalen Brown, Jalen Johnson, and Jalen Duren. That's a pretty good bench. Jalen Suggs, Jalen Green, Jalen Smith, Jalen Williams, Jalen Wilson, Jalen Wells. So, Jalen Brunson, Jalen Williams, Jalen Brown, Jalen Johnson, Jalen Duren. That's a pretty good team. I don't know if they win the title, but I think that's like a conference finals team.

59:21How do they rebound? That's the only thing that I'm having a hard time with. Johnson averages 10 a game. Johnson, yes.

59:27Bill Simmons:I know. I was going to say it. The only problem is Jalen Brunson brings Rick Brunson, I think, hypothetically. So I think that fucks the team up. He's not a Jalen. Rick is not a Jalen. No, but Jalen's going to be on the team. So then Rick Brunson has to be an assistant coach. No, I understand. But no, we need Jalen assistant coaches. He also suggested the coach would be the one and only Jalen Rose, which I fully support. Great. We saw his work in the 2014 Celebrity Game. Two more. Tim writes, it's 2035. You moved back to Boston because cross-country flights are suddenly a whole thing on the body.

1:00:05Bill Simmons:I don't even know what that means. House is nearby, recovering from his second major heart attack. That's not nice. I'm just reading the email. Sports podcasts are mostly robot clones trained on your voice. you're getting old but you have slightly enough fastball left to revise the final edition of the book of basketball meanwhile the Spurs have stacked two more titles in the 2020s another two in the first half of the 2030s can they get to six titles blah blah blah San Antonio will have won at least one title in five straight decades would that make the Spurs the best franchise ever or are Celtic fans still grading on a curve from the Eisenhower administration I'm gonna this is from Tim I'm pouring Tim some settle down juice.

1:00:50Bill Simmons:Santana hasn't even made the finals yet. We're giving them six more titles. Settle down. And how dare you say House is going to have two heart attacks? My second heart attack? Come on. House's first heart attack will kill him. I'm not going to have any heart attacks. How about that? I'm on cardio fitness right now. My blood pressure, 114 over 77 last time. Yeah, you're walking. I did send you a picture of the Wendy's chicken parmesan sandwich from 1989. Let's go. Which led to a whole text conversation about that's another like, what are we doing? Why isn't this available? Why don't we have chicken parmesan fast food sandwiches anymore?

1:01:30We immediately could launch into all the throwback food items from bygone eras. But the chicken parm... How hard is that?

1:01:39Bill Simmons:You make the tomato sauce, you melt the cheese on the chicken, and you just pour the tomato sauce on it. Because they already have. Everybody's got a chicken offering right now. Like, pretty solid chicken offering. I would honestly... Where's Popeyes on this? Well, much like this is a great time for an MVP thing. Just great MVP candidates. We have just so many great chicken sandwiches right now. It is a great moment. Chick-fil-A really pushed everybody to another level, I think. It was like Steph Curry's three-point shooting. Big guys had to shoot. Changed the league. Changed the volume of threes you want.

1:02:15Bill Simmons:like he's ground zero that I think. Have you tried the Big Arch yet? The McDonald's, the big, the new McDonald's Big Burger? Have you tried it? I have. Oh, okay. Did you do it for an ad read? Was it an ad read? Nobody. My wife likes a cheeseburger from time to time. Understandable. Who doesn't? No, I haven't tried it. I really wanted to though. You son of a bitch. I wanted to get you excited that I've tried it. I want to though. It's a great idea. I was so jealous. Big Arch just makes me hungry. Me too. and I love they did the whole thing with the Bozo CEO eating it like in the company cafeteria or whatever and giving it the most flaccid enthusiastic.

1:02:55I think it's a bit.

1:02:57Bill Simmons:It had to have been a bit. It went viral. They did a great job with it, but I'm telling you, I need to eat this burger. I haven't had it yet and I have a whole concept for burgers that I'm going to share with you offline. I have some burger concepts in mind. What do you mean? What burger concept? Like sliders? No, there's a whole thing out there. You want to create a ringer burger? I'm going to try some burgers. I want to eat some burgers. I want to see, you know, put some cities up against each other. Gahouse is actually pretty good. The Arch Burger. Oh, okay. It looks like a giant meal. What's Gahouse say about, is it too much food?

1:03:39Bill Simmons:On Survivor last night, Survivor has been really good. They had a two-hour episode and somebody won a reward and they won Applebee's. And Jeff Probst went through the whole Applebee's. He's like, you could have a bacon cheeseburger and just like close-ups of the food and HD. It fucking made me... My wife and I went out to dinner last night. I wasn't even hungry. I was hungry by the time they did it. Like those are the... And then I was thinking like, how much shitting do they do after when they haven't had normal food for two weeks? Oh, any of that. Yeah. And then they have like like a bacon cheeseburger and a milkshake?

1:04:13High sodium, high saturated fat, high sugar. That just must go right through them, right? I don't know.

1:04:19Bill Simmons:It certainly isn't good. The outcome is not good. Yeah, there's no good outcome from, I'm going to have my first food in 12 days and it's a bacon cheeseburger. Yeah. All right, last question from Sean Moynihan. He loves half-baked ideas with Kevin Wilds. Who doesn't? Come on. My half-baked idea is anesthesia bars. You go in and they put you under for how many hours you ask. You wake up and go about your day. Now, the kicker here is we're getting real licensed anesthesiologists, so it's completely safe. It's an above-board operation. Think about it. You're at the mall with your better half. Okay, honey, I'm going to the anesthesia bar.

1:04:58Bill Simmons:I'll see you in two. I hope you find everything you want at the store. Or say you're anxious about catching a flight. You show up five hours early. You get put under for three hours and 30 minutes until you need to get to your gate. The only thing that could go wrong is your heart stops or whatever else kills people while they're under. But how much worse is that than being bored? I think there's something here. I mean, granted, I can't think of a better person to ask than Joe House for this question. Well, I don't want to put you on blast. So I'm not going to pose the question to you. But I'll just tell you from my own personal experience that the drugs that they administer when you go in for a colonoscopy are the single best experience that I've had under any anesthesia, any illicit drug, licit drug.

1:05:47The nap that you take when you are in there and that particular cocktail they administer so they can do that very vital check of your intestinal fortitude. It is so goddamn good. When I woke up, I said, oh, don't wake me up. I don't want to be awake. Put me back. Put me back to that. It was really a glorious state. So much so that I asked if I could come back in six months. They said, no, we're going to wait. Three years is fine. That's good. But if you can deliver that to me, especially the airport concept is especially like, let me be in that frame of mind. Now, you're a little groggy. So maybe you don't want to go do anything like get on a plane,

1:06:34Bill Simmons:but what if they did it on the plane? What if that was part of what happened on the plane? Like you're flying international travel, you're flying to France or somewhere and you just get knocked out by an anesthesiologist. There's a 10 hour flight from, from Washington DC to Honolulu. And you're telling me that, that four hours that flight, I can, you know, have that beautiful. It's, it's the, it's, you feel so well rested. You're ready to go conquer the world. I knew you'd love this. I knew you'd have great thoughts. Whenever it wears off. So Masters, all the prep, all the previous stuff is going to be on Fairway Rowan.

1:07:07Bill Simmons:I'll probably make you come back on next week to talk about golf. I'm bringing Nathan with me. We're already inviting ourselves. There's going to be a Thursday round that we can talk about with you. All right. Good to see you, House. Back in a second with Jason Concepcion. Sometimes the greatest financial victories aren't the huge flashy contracts, but the mid-level moves that maximize your cap space. Just like Tax Act helps you get a great return by finding every deduction, even the small ones, to maximize your refund. In great returns presented by Tax Act, we look back at the best decisions GMs have made to land an inexpensive player who paid huge dividends down the stretch, and owners that have seen their team valuation skyrocket.

1:07:49Bill Simmons:Look at the Celtics. They had a huge luxury tax bill last summer. They had to figure out how to shed some contracts. They were able to turn Chris Stapps Porzingis and Drew Holiday into basically four months of Anfernee Simons and then like an$8 million version of the Porzingis contract. And they gave away a couple of second round picks. All of a sudden they're under luxury tax. And the guys who are playing for those guys were doing just as well. Shireman, Keita, Hugo Gonzalez. Like they just figured out how to patch it together because they were shrewd about it. That's the Celtics. Great Returns was presented by TaxAct.

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1:10:19All right.

1:10:20Bill Simmons:Our friend Jason Concepcion is here. You can hear him hosting a fairly new ringer podcast called wait a second, which has already gone in a whole bunch of days. I didn't listen to the one this week yet. We did the Havana syndrome this week. Havana syndrome. Wow. Is it fake or real from your perspective though? I don't, I'm not versed on this one as well. I got a deep, I'm going to listen to your pod and do some deep diving. And then, okay. I feel like every like 15 episodes, I should just come on with all of my scattered thoughts on the previous 14. We're holding Zodiac for you. Oh, oh yeah. Oh, I'm ready to roll.

1:11:01I got a lot of thoughts about Zodiac for a long time. Like I feel like there's layers.

1:11:06Bill Simmons:I do feel like our text thread just for this podcast with a few others could almost be like its own sub stack. Just us mailing weird daily mail things that somebody found. Yeah. Yeah. Yo, what's up with this? Yeah. The bullet doesn't match in this. You see this? Yeah. All right. A couple of things to hit. I want to talk about the podcast at the end, but we're going to talk next first because we just talked basketball at the house. And I was my dad's coming up after you who I already recorded with and I was saying how the Knicks are the one team I don't want the Celtics to play in the playoffs because I feel like the interesting I feel like the Celtics are the one team the Knicks probably feel like we can beat those guys and I'm not sure there are other teams in that list well I think that our first round matchup I feel like is a team that I feel good about which one who's the first round matchup gonna be I feel I feel if it's Philly I feel pretty good.

1:11:59Let me knock on wood and not start any kind of... That's a team where I feel like I have a reasonable amount of confidence. Everybody else I feel very... I feel increasingly nervous about, including the Celtics who, listen, if you had talked to me in the middle of the season last year, before the playoffs, I'd say, you know, no way. We touched the Celtics. They wipe us off the court. And the Knicks dug down and they found something. Is that team still in existence? I don't know. I don't know if we're still that team.

1:12:33Bill Simmons:The weirdest thing about the Knicks, and a lot of people have made this point, I'm not inventing it, is just that their five best guys do not play well together. And now we have lots of math that proves this. And so you fundamentally, it's like when these five guys play together, it's not that good. And they fall behind. And then bench guys come in and then they rally back. Not a great recipe. Starting lineup has been a problem for two years. it was a problem last year it continues to be a problem net rating tells you that you're leaking water with the starting lineup but and the fact that they're unable to kind of change it lets you know that there's something it is kind of the crux of the issue with the team there's some sort of deep seated personality friction that that means you can't change the starting lineup of the team.

1:13:29And, you know, I don't know if that's Cat and Mike Brown. I don't know if that's Bridges and Cat or the rest of the team and somebody else. I don't know what it is, but it's clearly something. And it bubbles up every few games to bedevil the team.

1:13:44Bill Simmons:Yeah, I guess my biggest question, and I talked about this the other day, how basketball is such a naked sport. We always overrate what we see on a TV and whether guys are getting along like they should and whether they're happy. But I think if you go through, other than Jalen Brunson, if you just go Nick by Nick and you were able to put four drinks in them and after three hours, you were like, hey, I got to ask you, are you happy? How many of them would say yes? I think Alvarado would say he's happy. I think Alvarado's love of life. But how many of them would be like, no, no, I love my role. I love the amount of shots I'm getting.

1:14:22Bill Simmons:I really love playing for Mike Brown. How many people would actually say that if you drug them and asked them for an answer? Well, I think we should preface this by noting that there are a lot of guys on this team where no matter what team they've played for in the past, this still would have been an issue. That's true. You know, OG was not like loving his role as a Toronto Raptor early. Yeah. So, Cat, similarly, they were up and down things. So, there's going to be some carryover in that regard. But I think you're right. I think there are under the surface divisions in the team. I don't know what they are, but you hear whispers about it all the time.

1:15:07And certainly, you know. I have a couple ideas. I have a couple ideas as well. But certainly when you see them, you know, the game against Houston, where it just felt like nobody wants to shoot and they're doing it in this kind of like petulant manner. Yeah. Tossing the ball around like, well, I was told I have to share, so you shoot it. That kind of feeling, everybody kind of uninvolved. Yeah. And it's the kind of thing, like when they went two and nine or whatever it was earlier in the season, that felt like every game. And it feels like that's never going away with this particular group. And I think, you know, part of it is just there's, obviously, you feel good about Jalen.

1:15:51Obviously, Josh Hart and Jalen are like a solid two. And I think outside of that, there's probably different divisions, wherever you look, depending on the circumstance and what's going on.

1:16:06Bill Simmons:it's because the glass half full that I've heard people point to, well, there's one stretch where we have had the best defensive rating for the last 30 games. There's only four teams that are in the top eight on both sides, offensive and defensive ratings. So that's why you have to take us seriously. But then the flip side of that is, all right, if I'm using ratings and doing that thing, your starting five is the worst starting five by rating of all the teams that have a chance to win a title. So what do I do with that if you're telling me to also look at this? I think that's why it's been so confusing.

1:16:37Yeah, I don't know what to make of this team from one game. It's truly like I don't. I am a supporter of the decision to. To untibs, to consciously uncouple from Tibbs. I think it was the right move. I think we've seen enough of Tibbs, who is a wonderful coach and is the guy. If you're building a culture, get that guy. If you need to build a culture, if you need to build a personality of a team, go get him. Yeah. But I think we've seen enough to understand that there's a ceiling and that there's a certain limitations to what he does. But he was able to, like, get some kind of ferociousness out of this team despite the divisions that existed.

1:17:28And while I think Mike Brown is a nice guy, it's unclear that he is the guy. And that was, the decision to fire Tibbs was always a two-part. For it to be successful, it would have to be a two-part plan. You'd have to, one, get rid of Tibbs, which decided to do that. And then two, hire the right guy. Is Mike Brown the right guy? I'm not sure yet because I don't know what the personality of, despite the fact that they are, whatever, a top five offense and for a time were, you know, a top five defense. and I think they're middle of the league now. I don't know what the, other than Jalen Brunson late, I'm not sure what the personality of this team is.

1:18:11And under Tibbs, they had one, as imperfect as it was.

1:18:15Bill Simmons:Yeah, that makes sense. Well, you get to a playoff series and you just want to be in a situation where Brunson's trading baskets with whoever the best guy on the other team is, right? That's when this team, we're within four and now we have our closer and we can actually crack down get defense. But I think one of the problems for them is that the rest of the league is just better. You know, two years ago, they didn't have as much talent as they do this year. But two years ago, the league wasn't as good. Now you're looking at even like in the first round, you're playing. Let's say you play Toronto in the first round.

1:18:49Bill Simmons:Toronto is going to be almost a 51 team. Atlanta has been, what, 20-2 in the last 22? These are teams that are playing well. This isn't like rollovers. No, completely agree. At the same time, the team that I really don't want to play out there is Charlotte, just because that is. And I don't think there's anybody in the East. Do you want to play Charlotte? Like there's something about them where they don't know any better and they will just. Erupt from three and next thing you know, you they will steal a game from you. That's a team I don't want to play because of the way they play as well. I watched them pretty carefully, the three games that they lost at home, or they won the first one they lost the next two.

1:19:33But it's interesting.

1:19:35Bill Simmons:The reason you don't want to play them is also the reason you do want to play them. Because with four minutes left, all of a sudden it's like, all right, LaMelo, what do you got? And he's like, watch this. I'm going to shoot a 38 footer, but then it'll go in. like you just like he's a complete wild card for better and worse and i've you know cons cons 20 like you saw some of these more yet the knicks will be able to i think wear down con and miller a little bit teams are already kind of using the diabate thing against him they're pulling him away from the basket but the lamella thing's just a wild card for both ways like i feel like he could shoot them out of a 20 point lead with four minutes left in the same way that he could bring him back.

1:20:15Bill Simmons:I don't know what to make of him. Me neither. The other thing that makes it difficult with the Knicks is obviously you have the Jalen piece, which you can count on. But their other kind of edge is Mitchell Robinson, and you just don't know how many minutes he's going to give you when he can play. But in the playoffs, you don't have the back-to-back, so you know you're going to actually get him. Right. And when he's right, he's a guy that you can kind of plant your flag on, but then you have all the issues of fit with Cat and now what happens there. I mean, really the Cat piece is the one because everything could be, it's like, we're trying to reverse engineer a way that this team could work if it would, if it, and all you need to do is just like, Hey, can Cat just like get with the program on a night to night basis, right?

1:21:06His defensively has been approved. That's great. But like, can the shot also be there? Can the rotations also be there? Can the screen setting also be there? Can the not just weird temper tantrums not be there? Can all these things be there on a consistent night to night basis? And you just wonder. It's hard to know. He's a mercurial guy. And this has always been a thing for that's another thing that's this is not didn't start now.

1:21:34Bill Simmons:Right. The crazy fouls. So, yeah, I'm sure you're on a slew of Nick's text threads. Yes. Yes. Who is the most polarizing player on the text threads? Is it Kat? It's Kat and Bridges. All right. So what are the Bridges' complaints? The Bridges' complaints is, though, let me preface this by saying, we need to forget about the draft picks. Right. It happened. It's water under the bridge. It happened. It's gone. It's done. That said, like, you know, in private spaces with your Knicks fan friends, you're going to talk about the draft picks. You're going to talk about it. And you're going to be like, you know, where was he?

1:22:19Where he disappeared for this period of time. I think he's been consistent for the team, but consistent at a level that was not kind of the level that I think you were expecting initially going in. So he's a divisive guy.

1:22:32Bill Simmons:Yeah, because you do that trade assuming it basically guarantees that you're going to be in at least one finals. You're giving up all those assets. You're trying to lock down something. Right. And by the way, I still think the logic behind all of these moves is pretty sound. You can't hit every bet. You're not going to win every single bet. I think these were calculated moves. It's an open question about whether they will pay off and to what level. but I think the underlying logic still makes sense. Like we were going to face Boston a million times in the playoffs. And so you want these two rugged wing defenders to try and slow them down somehow that Brown and Tatum.

1:23:20And that makes sense on paper. It just hasn't, despite the fact that we did beat the Celtics last year and that was one of the greatest moments of my life. We'll see what happens this year. The Celtics look very, very scary. you know and tatum is like has like wolverine mutant healing factor i don't know how this happened like is starting to look like that guy again yeah and they just look unbelievable so we'll see what happens all right so it sounds like you're more glass half full glass half empty than glass half full no i'm let me be clear i have made peace with whatever will happen. There's going to be Mike Brown is going to be held to a standard that honestly I get it like if they don't make at least the conference finals and do well there.

1:24:10Bill Simmons:You have to get past round two. You have to. Right. They have to. They can lose in the conference finals but it can't be like five games. They have to do well. And he's going to be held to that standard and if they don't then it's not a success. And I think that's slightly unfair to him, but that's life. And I've made my piece with that. Can I tell you the dumbest thing they did? Not just trying to get the four seed. Sure. Like go backwards. Honestly, I would much rather be in the four seed and play Detroit, a team that you know you can beat and just have the four or five matchup and then rest all these dudes come up.

1:24:49Bill Simmons:Cause honestly, I think this is what Cleveland's doing. I don't trust what Cleveland's doing at all right now. I think they're delighted to be the fourth seed. I thought that Lakers game was really weird by them. I didn't really understand it. And I know Luke was playing great, but I just think that's a game like if you're trying to win the title, you're like, we have our guys. Let's fucking go. Let's lay the smack down. This team's a contender. We're in L.A. And they were out of that game from the get-go. It's weird. I don't think they care. I agree with you. I'll say this for why I don't think...

1:25:24If the Knicks were a team like the grid and grind Grizzlies in the middle of the run, right, where they know who they are. Right. Or if they were, you know, the mid-period Spurs, right? And they rock solid. They know who they are. You go on cruise control for two weeks.

1:25:42Bill Simmons:Cruise control. Coach has been there for a million years. Your veteran guys are pillars of the team. I think you can do that. I think with a team that is still dealing with the changes that happened from the previous two seasons and that has made a drastic, like a significant coaching change and has had the owner go on radio and say, like, we have the group to win the finals. There's a lot of reasons why I don't think you could do it. I think you'd need to be a more established in the postseason club for that to work. I think that's fair. Well, can we talk about the most positive element of this next season?

1:26:19Bill Simmons:I think the incredible, incredible performance by celebrities every game. I think it's the most star-packed group they've had night to night. And you have real regulars now. You have people that were going when the team was fucking terrible that are just minted. For sure. Dolan's going to be loyal to those people for life. Matthew Modine. Modine, wherever you want to sit, just tell us. Modine. Yeah, Zaslav. You have like the random Larry David will come back. but just in general, like they've, they, I, I think it's better than what the Lakers have going right now, to be honest. I think you're right.

1:26:55And some of them for, you know, Modine is, I mean, Modine is an OG at this point. There was the, you know, the Knicks did a 50 greatest moments at MSG documentary that aired on the MSG network that is narrated by Matthew Modine. This is from, it must be 12, 15 years ago. So like he's been around. imperiale is always there hargitay is always there and lately you've had like ed sheeran aaron judge is there all the time tracy morgan through stiller is there like cooper hoffman cooper hoffman uh chalamet is well maybe our next spike lee well oh yeah and

1:27:35Bill Simmons:and spike lee but do you what happened do you get chalamet for the playoffs or does he kind of But is he going hiding after the Oscars? I feel like he's got to lay low for a while here. No, I think after a disappointment like the Oscars, where I think you could argue maybe narrative had something to do with the showing, I think you recharge your batteries. I think you go to where you're comfortable and where people love you and where you're part of the atmosphere. And I think you go back to MSG in that atmosphere and you just recharge like those shots of that's Timmy at his most charming and his most seemingly authentic.

1:28:19Like it's clear that he loves the Knicks and has for a long time. I think you I think you go. I think you absolutely go.

1:28:25Bill Simmons:So this is basically Dirk Diggler going back to Jack Horner's house at the end of Booking Night. That's exactly right. Jack. You know, go back to where it started. Jack. He goes to James Dole at gym. Will you help me? Can I sit courtside again? Please? Come inside. It's okay. I understand. Come on. I have a game five tickets for you. Yeah. Hey, you want to sit next to Zaslow? And McEnroe? Yeah. Oh, yeah. McEnroe. That's another one. I think the Knicks, I really think they're beating the Lakers pretty handily right now. It's a good run. The Lakers were never able to recover from Nicholson just getting really old.

1:29:06Bill Simmons:They never were able to audible. Denzel's not around enough. Leo's not reliable enough. That's true. They've never nailed it. And honestly, Nicholson's kid, I just don't think he's in care yet. He does not have the G's. The lack of name recognition really hurts him. Well, let me just note that Flea is there every game. Yeah. Diane Cannon is there every game. But that's the thing. You have like 20 Flea. Will Ferrell is there a lot. Yeah, that's true. Will Ferrell's a good one. Yeah. They're going to have to... So there's still people. To lean in. All right. Well, you sound semi-optimistic. Survivor, you've been watching.

1:29:41Bill Simmons:You didn't see last night. Survivor 50. That's right. Which I think has been the first Survivor series that really parallels what it's like to follow like basketball or professional team sports. What makes you say that? Younger people who are in their primes. Older people trying to hang on. China. Maybe they weren't what they were 20 years ago, but they had the expertise and the know-how and all the same things about the show that drives me crazy. Just blown up personified. They always get rid of whoever the best looking people are. Gotta get rid of them. Whoever the most charismatic people are, let's get them out of here too.

1:30:22Bill Simmons:And we just end up with the quietest, most manipulative, calculating people. It's always how the show goes. Well, do you watch Traitors this season? Do you watch it? Of course I did. Come on. Who are you talking to? I felt like Rob, I think he would be great on Survivor. Yeah. His ability, I mean, you put your finger on something. His ability to play into his looks in a way that makes you think, that guy's great looking, but he's dumb. Yeah. You know? There's nothing there. And just lay in the cut quietly. Yeah. You know, being the hot, dumb guy and then all of a sudden make moves. I think I understand that Jeff Probst feels a type of way about other reality shows.

1:31:10But I think that guy would be I think he would be incredible. Like he ran the table. It was it was an unreal performance. Get that guy on whatever the next Survivor All-Star season is, because I think it would be incredible.

1:31:24Bill Simmons:And that show is so much harder to pull off than Survivor because they put you in these rooms and it's like you're eating with your other with your other traders, right? It's just the three of you. And then like Lisa Rinna comes in and she's like, hey, you guys never dawns on her that maybe they put the three people together that are the traders. It's really like a dumb collection of people for the most part. This Survivor, one of the cool things about 50 was these people, they played it. They've watched all the seasons. You have people on there that have studied every season and all the things.

1:31:57Bill Simmons:They can remember every mistake or thing any other opponent did. So it almost moves to this higher level of chess. I've really been into it. I've been into it too. And obviously, don't tell me. Yeah, I'm not going to tell you. but I gotta say against my better, against my original hesitance, I'm like gravitating to the Riz God. Something about his arrogance, the way he, man, he is a cocky dude, but in a great way. Yeah. He did a thing in the previous season where it seemed like he was going to use his, his immunity, hidden immunity idol, and he didn't do it in this, in a way that was like, just let people know that he had read the game in a fantastic way.

1:32:46He reminds me of like Phil Ivey, like peak Phil Ivey at the poker table. And it's been, it's been fun to watch him. I think a great example of a, of a person who maybe overplayed a little bit is the great Mike White. Oh, let's talk about that. Yeah. He,

1:33:04Bill Simmons:I think he felt like the fame factor and people's, people's desire to have a cameo on season five of White Lotus season seven was going to carry him to the Final Force about and he clearly got played completely. It worked for Angelina. Like I think it worked a little bit. But it wasn't going to work twice. It wasn't going to work twice. Well it's interesting because he you know it's fascinating how people get in their feelings. It's like you're manipulating people but then when you get called out for manipulating you're like but you're manipulating. He tried to manipulate Christian, who in their season, David's versus Goliath, as Christian had a kind of unshakable alliance with this other contestant named Gabby, who eventually betrayed him.

1:33:53And he like, Mike tried to use that against him, which immediately made Christian think, Mike's trying to use this against me. I think he's too dangerous. I got to get him out. Yeah, Christian's - It was a fascinating turn.

1:34:05Bill Simmons:He's basically a sociopath. Like he's looking at everything I don't know who's going to win, but he would be one of the ones I would pick because he's he's playing the game the hardest, putting the most thought into it, but isn't obviously a threat. I don't. The thing I never understand was Survivor. I would just think the four kind of strongest, most athletic people should just be like, let's just fucking the four of us. We'll figure it out. We get to four. We'll just win every challenge. Let's look out for each other. and that's it. I think the problem with that particular, I also watch Australian Survivor in which that is a more viable, that's a viable strategy in Australian Survivor that is because it's a lot more physical than American Survivor.

1:34:49But...

1:34:50Bill Simmons:You don't think it can work in America? I don't think it can work because it's been sniffed out as a strategy for years now. People trying to cut it out. Yeah, because you could see it in 50. They were just trying to get rid of the best challenge people right away. That's exactly what, you know, I kind of like that about American Survivors. They're like, that person's too good. Yeah, but here's what I don't like is Siri who like, anytime they have like odd numbers, it's like, Siri's going to be sitting out this challenge. It's like, what the fuck is she there for? She said, has anyone sat out more challenges than her and somehow she'll make the final three?

1:35:23Bill Simmons:It's like, come on. I just simply cannot criticize a legend if they're letting her get that loophole. They, they, you know good for her that said politically get her out she's the best strategist she you have to be careful with her because it's it's the fact that people leave her around and then she forges all these relationships with people who genuinely like her yeah and then when she starts trading information and being like well you know who said this and here's this that's when she gets really dangerous late game and you never know what would happen. I just think in American Survivor, if you are dominating physically, you've got a target on your back.

1:36:05They can't wait to get you out.

1:36:06Bill Simmons:I love that you're banging out Australian Survivor and doing the compare and contrast. That's really next level. Where do you even find Australian Survivor? Is it on YouTube? No, it's on... Well, I have a VPN. I pay for a VPN. You're amazing. only to watch australian's literally the only thing i do with it on the 10 play network and let me tell you you get all the australian commercials um i've learned a ton about australian culture through the lens of their commercials as i watch australian survivor on a week-to-week basis some of it is really great and let me say this there's a character named he calls himself king george yeah and when i tell you when i tell you bill his second appearance on the program, which I believe is All Stars, is the most incredible run of survivor politicking I've ever, he is a, not a physical character is, and he was faced off against like these beefy, you know, like stud athletes who, who were thinking time and time again, like, this is the type of person, like I stuff in a locker, no problem.

1:37:15We're getting this guy out. And because this guy, George, he's like a political consultant, he was able to flip arguments in a way that I have never seen before, ever. And bring these grown, muscular people to the brink of tears time and time again with just his words. It's an incredible experience. You got to see it if you can.

1:37:42Bill Simmons:What would be your strategy if you were on Survivor? what would be your divide divide and conquer i'm gonna go in i'm gonna talk to everyone not about the game and for or at least hopefully seemingly just you know chat about your life and what's going on isn't it crazy that we're here you know just get little bits of information i want to touch base with everyone so that i have some perspective about potential gameplay strategy, perspectives, the way people might hopefully go through the game. And then I will start, when the time is right, just putting information out there, hopefully getting information back.

1:38:25Information trading. Information trading. But the number one thing is you've just got to, you can't, you see it happen time and time again in Survivor. People get in a funk, they get, the numbers are against them, and they're sitting on the beach alone. you got to get out and you got to talk to people. You got to get out of your head and you just got to walk up to them and talk about whatever the beach, where are you going to the bathroom? Where's the best place to take a piss around here? Where do you think the idols are like, whatever, what are you, what are you eating? You know, and just make some sort of connection that you can use.

1:38:57And if you don't do that, you're just not going to go anywhere. Yeah.

1:39:01Bill Simmons:That's right. Or right near what I would be doing. I would be trying to just build relationships. because I think those are, I think you actually build real friendships. It makes it harder for people to turn on you. But I also think you can't be sneaky and you can't lie. Like if you're doing the thing where you're walking around, like I'm going to, I'm going to go look for an idol. You don't want to tell anyone you're looking for an idol. And then somebody can, what are we doing out there? And it's like, oh, I had to go to the bathroom and you just look like you were bearing a body. I just feel like I was fucking looking for an idol.

1:39:33Bill Simmons:I know there's one out there. What else are we doing? There's no TV. I walked around for two hours. I tried to see if there was an idol. So that means you wouldn't do the thing like Jeff Kent or Cliff Robinson, may he rest in peace, or Scott Pollard, where you go in and you try to pretend that you're just some guy. Like, oh, I work in accounting. You wouldn't do that. Oh, if it was actually like me trying to being worried somebody would recognize me. Yes. I would probably bring it up I think it's weirder not to mention it if somebody's like what do you do and it's like oh yeah I'm in media

1:40:18doing uh you know some audio stuff you'd have to change your voice I think you know like if there's a way people are going to recognize you

1:40:25Bill Simmons:yeah for sure I'd have to be like hey guys what's up hey Survivor love the program I would be I just don't think you can be sneaky ever. The moment you're sneaky, people file it away and they don't trust you from that point on. So you just have to be transparent about it. The thing I'd be the most worried about is what t-shirt I was wearing. I would think about that all the time. It's like, if I got on a Survivor for the next two months, I'd be like, what am I going to do? Is the Boston t-shirt too cliched? Do a band? Do I do like a ringer t-shirt? Just own it? When's the last time you... Oh yeah, go ahead.

1:41:00Bill Simmons:Christian has that one weird t-shirt he has that he wears every day. Right. And it's just like a bad t-shirt. It's like, that was it. That was the best one. But I, they probably can't wear anything that's trademarked. Right. You can't wear bands. Maybe you can't wear a sports team. Correct. So I don't know. I would spend a lot of time thinking about shit like that. As I understand it, they ask you to, you know, you bring your own clothes and then they go through what you brought and tell you what you can bring to wear during the game. You probably want like a thicker t-shirt. I'd want shorts that were a little longer because you're sitting and you don't want them to ever have to blurk over your crotch because one of your balls was hanging out or something don't want that but I would be terrible at Survivor because the contact lunges and allergies I'd be a fucking mess well I think they give you they would probably give you medication they'd let you take your Claritin and you know like people who wear glasses like Genevieve this season and Christian Sometimes they have them, sometimes they don't.

1:42:01So it's clear that they let them have access to their lenses at times. So I think you'd be okay there. Mike, when's the last time you slept outside?

1:42:11Bill Simmons:Oh, I would hate that. Oh my God. I never, even as a kid, I didn't like that. Yeah, that'd be tough. I would like, if I knew I was going on, I would definitely, you'd have to learn how to make fire. All the stuff that made the first season so much fun when they had no idea how to do anything. and then probably try to make like two or three real friends when you're on there yeah that's what you got to do yeah because i think that that's when like people like siri that's why she lasts because she's a good hang and everybody's you know i like having her around whereas mike white there was a little like oh mike white you think you're better than me you think you're better than me and they fucking got him out you know what i would do i talk about this with my wife all the time.

1:42:56I would, if I got on, I'd be like, give me the HGH, get me the trainer who does Hemsworth and gets him ready for Thor. And I want to get like in shape that would get me eliminated from the Olympics. Like I want to be ready to go. Like Mike White looked, Mike White was like that. Mike White had the washboard. Where'd that come from?

1:43:21Bill Simmons:Yeah, he was jacked. And I want to get jacked. I don't want to have a situation where I go out there and I'm like, oh, man, I look terrible out there. I got to get jacked. The one persona that seems to work over and over again is strong, friendly, and dumb. Yes. If you hit those three things in a row, you're going to make it to the final five. You're not a threat because people think you're too dumb to be a threat, but usually they're smarter than how dumb they seem. And they're a good hang. They're usually from, you know, not a typical city. And people just seem to gravitate to those guys. And those have been a lot of the most popular survivor people.

1:43:58Yeah, I agree. I think another secret too is you need, no matter what alliances you get into, you need the one rock solid alliance that you're going to go to the final three with. Like that's it. Whatever else we talk about with whoever else we talk about it with. It's you and me and we're going there. And if you have that, then you can build other things on top of that. Like that's, and you saw it with Tony and Sarah Lucina. Yeah. When you have that, that is a way to go deep into the game. And it lets you lie more too.

1:44:36Bill Simmons:I can't believe the show still works. It does. It's unbelievable. I remember summer of 2000, I was living in Boston. It was like one of the hottest summers we ever had. And career wasn't going amazing at that point. I was right in the theme, but it was okay. And the Lakers won the first Kobe Shaq title that year. And the Celtics were, every Boston team was terrible. The Yankees had just won. The Lakers now had this new dynasty coming. And I was just like, what the fuck? What good thing is going to happen? And Survivor's happening as that's going on. And I was just didn't like Richard Hatch and I was hoping he would win.

1:45:20Bill Simmons:And then he fucking won the first season. I was like, I'm just never winning anything ever again. And then Tom Brady showed up a year later and everything was fine. And then, you know, Hatch has turned out to be kind of a gritty fellow in his own regard. It's funny to go back and watch those two, those old seasons, because. He was just rude. He was naked all the time. It was awful. Naked all the time. He was a bad guy. Yeah. And then, you know, and then it's a microcosm, too, of just like the culture. Remember when they did Cook Islands 2006 and they divided everybody by race, the race war? And then episode two, they realized, oh, bad idea.

1:45:58And they were just like, hey, guys, forget it. We're scrapping the tribes. And we're just, everybody reaching in the bag. You're getting a new buff and everybody's getting mixed up. That was a crazy idea. We're not doing that.

1:46:11Bill Simmons:Oh, my God. Who's the oldest person who's been on? good question. Like they've gone into their 60s a couple of times, right? Yeah, there's a good question. And there has been a woman in her 60s. And now I'm not sure if I'm mixing this up with Australian survivor, but no, wait, there was the Navy SEAL guy, Rudy. He was like 70 something. Right. And Ceri's getting up there too. I was thinking, uh, be an interesting show for my daughter. Cause she'd be really good at the challenges, but I think the food would ultimately kill her. Like she really enjoys like making meals, thinking about what she's going to eat.

1:46:56Bill Simmons:And if it was just like the rice and you never know, I, I, I feel like she'd unravel. My son would be probably much better off, but I can't imagine what it would be like to have somebody, you know, on this show. And then they come back and you're just like what happened i can't tell you and you're just like studying every face they make for the i i can't imagine having someone i know go on and i've had like multiple like friends try out and get like within a couple of rounds you know yeah ex ringer colleague sean you got to like the third interview i forgot about that i'm like breaking news here on the podcast But yeah, he got close.

1:47:41Bill Simmons:Wow. The closest experience I had to this is a friend of mine from college actually got on Jeopardy and couldn't tell us what happened, but won a couple episodes. My friend Cara McDermott from college. Wow. And it was the most exciting, just rooting for her, not knowing if she was going to win or not. So I can't even imagine what Survivor would be like. Anyway, Survivor's back. Who knew? survivor 50 probes you know they're doing a lot of wide shots with him this year i think he looks great he looks great maybe overdid it 10 percent that would be my note well here's um a theory a friend has is that they're using the um the dimples to tuck the stuff in there that's how they're doing it is to tighten everything up they tuck it in the dimple interesting.

1:48:35Yeah. But I think he looks great. I think he looks great. Just be careful. You don't want to move too close to the Siegfried and Meroyed

1:48:42Bill Simmons:area. Just tiptoe it. Move the camera back a little bit. Tiptoe it. Yeah. It's so great. Watch that harsh light. There's so many bad reality shows. My wife was watching this show on a boat where you walk the plank and people the plank gets, you just fall into the sea if you get voted out. It's like, wow, we've really run out of ideas with these, but Survivor 50 is still kicking it. All right. Wait a second. Yes. You're a fairly new podcast. I think I'm coming back to talk Zodiac at some point, but we got to talk Zodiac. There's going to be a lot of good stuff going. What's the feedback, Ben? People like when this stuff exists, when they have other maniacs like us talking about this stuff.

1:49:23The feedback's been really great. I'm getting people bugging me to do various topics, including Gladio, which was a secret NATO program to have partisans behind communist lines if the communists invaded Europe. And then those groups potentially were connected to various right-wing terror campaigns throughout mostly Italy. There's a lot of crazy conspiratorial stuff that is less crazy when you dig into it. And that's what we aim to do is get into the crazy stuff, but also be like, okay, what is actually here? Like the JFK one is a great example of, you know, over the years, one thing has become clear is it's 100 % there is a cover-up.

1:50:13It's basically been admitted. Like, yes, forget who killed him. There is a cover-up going on about what all happened there, in particular with relations to Cuba.

1:50:27Bill Simmons:Yeah, because the conceit of the pod was always stuff that made you go, wait, what's going on? What happened? So one of the recent ones we were batting around was this one where the scientists just keep disappearing or getting murdered. Yes. And we're up to like eight and clearly something's happening. So it's less a conspiracy pod, more of a curiosity pod is how I describe it to people. Let me say about the scientists, it is up to eight. only three of them are actually mysterious. So let me put the five aside, because there's one that was, there's several that were murders, and it's clear who did it, and it's like there's either family connection or something like around the neighborhood, and it all ties up.

1:51:12It makes a lot of sense. The three who we don't know what happened are really, really weird, including one who was like videoed miles away from their house, walking in some random neighborhood, like without their phone, without their anything. Another one who left with like a loaded gun and no identification. Like there's, those are weird.

1:51:33Bill Simmons:Yeah. Well, and then that we, we didn't do a full episode on Savannah Guthrie yet because there weren't a lot of places to go, but that's, that's so, so there's like some sort of line of, I don't even know what that episode would be. That story is just awful. And I don't even, I don't even really know what the conspiracy theories would be about it yet. But the scientists one, And there's a little more meat because of like what you just said about, all right, not only was the person dead, but there's what's up with this video? Why did that happen? Yeah. And never found. Yeah. And when you think about it in the context of, I mean, listen, you know, the U.S.

1:52:15has been involved in programs to assassinate Iranian nuclear scientists. Like, could it be that there's a program to hit or kidnap our scientists? Like, it's not unheard of. Seems realistic. It seems realistic to think about. You know, there have been numerous military personnel, both from the U.S., U.S. Air Force, and from Britain's Air Forces, that have been charged and convicted of helping the Chinese pilots get better and providing them with services. Like, could that be part of what's going on? There's a lot of like, hmm, things happening. Like, it's like the, did you see the story about the two recent illegal biolabs that were discovered?

1:53:02One in California and one in Las Vegas? Yeah.

1:53:06Bill Simmons:And one of them, like nobody even knew there was anything in the area. Yeah. It was like somebody saw a hose connected to an apartment. Like, what is that? They called like a code enforcer and they found like Ebola and, you know, AIDS virus and like monkeys in cages and weird stuff. Yeah, I mean, like, what's that about? All right. So there's a lot of these types of stories, especially these days. All right. It's Wait a Second. It's you. It's Tyler Parker. I'm popping on at some point over the next couple episodes. And I will see you soon, I'm sure. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra.

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1:54:58Bill Simmons:The active cash credit card from Wells Fargo, be a two percenter. Learn more at wells, Fargo.com forward slash active cash terms apply. All right. We're taping this Thursday afternoon. My dad is in Boston. We have the Celtics nearing the end of the regular season headed for a two seed. And almost as important, we have a Red Sox season that feels like it's in a lot of trouble. I think it's all over. One in five, you're out. I might be. All right, you want to talk Red Sox first? It's hard to talk Red Sox. They've been looking so terribly and terrible. And the lineup is atrocious. yeah last year they could hit lefties and they had ref snyder and romey gonzalez who started ref snyder's in seattle and at least like when they played lefties you were like oh this is going to be good this year um the lineup against lefties was an abomination the lineup they had yesterday where they had what was it durbin was six so it doesn't have a hit yet conor wong who somehow has five hits the season was ninth and then who was the guy that was eighth i'm blanking It was somebody, oh, IKF, Kynor Falafel.

1:56:12Bill Simmons:Your favorite, your favorite new player. Oh my God. They signed him for 6 million bucks. The sad thing is I talked myself into this team before the season in spring training. I was like, oh, hi, 80s. We have pitching. We have a bullpen. The rest, Roman will make a leap. We'll figure it out. And then you watch for six days and I'm panicking. Well, you know, the, the, the management, the general manager sold this team on when he couldn't sign Alonzo and other big hitters. He sold this team on pitching and defense. Yeah. Well, the pitching been horrendous and the defense has been terrible. Yeah. I think they have an error every game, right?

1:56:46Yeah. And, and he said it would, it would make up for the, um, lack of a big slugger coming in here to hit third or fourth. Do you have a lot of confidence in Contreras turning things around? No.

1:56:59Bill Simmons:I mean, Durbin was the big one because they traded Kyle Harrison for him, who they got in the Devers trade, which nobody's left from that trade. And then he looks good for the Brewers. And Durbin, who when they signed him, my nerd Red Sox fan friends went nuts because he was in the bottom 6 % of swing speed. He had like one of the... He was in the 94th percentile of slow bats. This sounds like, is this a hench statistic? Yeah, the Hedge was pretty focused on it. Okay. And he was really worried about his slow bat speed. And then it was even worse watching in person. And now the way the announcers are talking about him, it's like he's dead, but he's still coming up for a bat's game.

1:57:41But you know, the bat speed, that's an interesting, I didn't see that, but he can't catch up to the fastball. No, not so far anyway.

1:57:50Bill Simmons:He was so bad that on one of my Red Sox threads, we were going through the worst Red Sox hitters we've seen in our lifetime. with Bob Bailey in 1978 being the worst one, but also Tony Pena's last season. There's been some bad ones. There's like bad free agents like Jack Clark. But this guy, like he batted six yesterday in a start for crochet. And, you know, it just felt like he was an automatic out when he came up. I mean, the obvious problem is they have no alternative. Even Meyer, Meyer, Meyer. Meyer. Looks terrible. He's hitting 200. They thought of moving him to third, but he's not hitting.

1:58:31Bill Simmons:He's Roman's best friend, though. He's on the team for the next 15 years. So we need him to start hitting because he's going to be his sidekick. Roman, who's struck out four times on Tuesday night. All the guys who are in the WBC. Well, the craziest yet, I've watched every game. Yesterday, they're down 6-3 in Houston. Houston's just killing them. And Houston looks like a completely different team. So they bring in Whitlock to get some work. and this guy, Cam Smith, who's on the Astros, who ironically is now on my AL keeper team. So I'm a little invested in him. And he has a 14 pitch at bat against Whitlock.

1:59:05Bill Simmons:And all of a sudden Whitlock's over 30 pitches and the announcers are like, oh God, he's never thrown this many pitches in an inning. And it's like, what's happening? He shouldn't even be out there. But it's like everything that can go wrong has gone wrong. And you can really feel it with the voices of the announcers, the way they're talking about it. Because they don't want to be too critical, but they can't also think of anything positive to say. So it's a lot of, oh, what a start. One of them, I think Maloney in the beginning of the game said, we're one and four. He mentioned a team that's one and five.

1:59:39He said, we can't be one and five. We can't go there. Yeah. Well, we're one and five. Yeah. Well, and they lost the crochet start. Crochet, yeah. I had a lot of confidence that Crochet would turn it around yesterday. But, you know, Houston kills us. There's certain teams that when we go to Houston, we play poorly every year in Houston.

2:00:03Bill Simmons:And somehow their guys never change. Like Correa's back on Houston now. It's like, I thought he was gone. Why do you have him again? And he's killing us. I agree. I thought he was on Minnesota. What's he doing here? Yeah, all of a sudden he's back. And Alvarez just goes, he hits 500 against the Red Sox. Like, he just kills them every game. You know, I kind of understand why they did it, because our weather in Boston has been terrible. But to start on the road against three difficult teams, it's tough. Yeah. I'd rather they were home, except they couldn't be home. Like, today it's pouring rain.

2:00:38We've had terrible weathers, you know. I mean, honestly, if Tatum hadn't come back. If Tatum hadn't come back. They started home, what, Friday night, right?

2:00:46Bill Simmons:Yeah. Or Friday afternoon, I guess. But if Tatum hadn't come back, if we had this Drake May, this Drake May Super Bowl followed by the Red Sox sucking and then Tatum never coming back to the Celtics, I would have actually worried about your personal welfare. No, we've talked about the Super Bowl. I'm okay. I'm excited that we got there. I did before this podcast, I just listened to NBA Today. Yeah. And they were showing lots of clips of the Celtic game from last night against Miami. Miami. And they asked Perk what he thought. And Perk took a moment. I don't always agree with whatever Perk says.

2:01:35I was going to say. Perk said, they're coming out of the East. So I felt good about that.

2:01:41Bill Simmons:Yeah, he's been pretty bullish for a while. I thought they looked awesome. It's weird. It felt like the Jalen-Jason thing could have gone one of like seven ways. And so far, it feels like it's gone the best possible way, where they've each had little moments. They figured out how to like, you take this part. It's almost like watching two guys on a cross country drive, just figure out who should drive and who's going to be, take a break. And then who now you drive. And sometimes it'll be a Jalen game. Sometimes it'll be more of a Tatum game. And, uh, and, and they don't feel like when one guy is kind of in control, the other guy doesn't feel like he's completely out of the offense.

2:02:19Bill Simmons:Um, I, I, I've been really pleased. I have been too. We talked about it, I think, a week ago that I still feel that one of them has to be in the game at all times. And it looks like Missoula came to that realization. Yeah. Because lately one of them is, unless one of them is not playing, like in the Atlanta game. But there was a nice moment in the fourth quarter yesterday where Brown and Tatum just kind of were near each other on defense. And they slopped hands. I think they're good. I think that any little message. Yeah, they're good. No, I've been watching that stuff too because there is so much Jalen talking about, you know, the stuff we talked about before Tatum came back.

2:03:04Bill Simmons:And if you were reading between the lines in the wrong ways, you could be like, he seems pretty happy to have his own team. But I think both of these guys would much rather win. And, you know, they've been together a long time here. This is nine straight years where they've been playing together. Right. Right. But the other good thing is the bench can come in as long as one of them's out there. And there's all these different ways the game can go that are positive. Like we could have the hot Pritchard game. You could have the game where like the wings just kind of create wreak havoc for six minutes and get steals and blocks and all these things.

2:03:38Bill Simmons:Or you could have a game where Tatum just goes off. There's a lot of variance with them, which I don't feel like we had the same variance last year. Did you? No, the bench is really diverse in terms of, and guys have matured and taken a step up. I mean, Jordan Walsh, not one of my favorites, but I have to give it to him. He's playing a lot better than he was a year ago. Pritchard can have games where he's unstoppable. Right. My worry about Pritchard a little bit is in the big game against the Knicks. On a heavy defense, they can take him out of the game a little bit. Yeah, the Knicks are officially looming.

2:04:17Bill Simmons:And it's weird because we talked to Jace Concepcion about them earlier in the pod. And I don't even think the Knicks fans feel that confident about the Knicks, but the Celtics are the one team the Knicks have a lot of confidence. They're kind of built to beat the Celtics and even getting somebody like Alvarado for the Pritchard matchup. Alvarado's just annoying. He's going to guard you for 70 feet and he's going to stick his feet near your feet and he's going to push and check you and bump you. I kind of think that's how to attack Pritchard, which a lot of teams don't do. I agree. We've talked about it over the last couple of years.

2:04:51A number of the moves the Knicks made seem to be to counteract the Celtics. I don't know that anybody's all that fearful of Detroit. Particularly, you know, the unknown is Cade's, Cade Cunningham's health.

2:05:06Bill Simmons:Now they said he might not be back until the playoffs. Right. Yeah. Well, the one thing that's happening with them now is they're getting nobody believes in a synergy, which makes me nervous. Like Zach and I did something on Sunday about how they weren't one of the 10 scariest teams hitting the playoffs. It was like, I think it was front page on the sports section of the Detroit Free Press. Like, yet more people don't believe in Detroit. It's like, oh God, here we go. But, you know. I don't care about Detroit because if we're fortunate enough to get to the Eastern finals, that's when we see them.

2:05:40Bill Simmons:Yeah. You know, we don't see them before then. No, the Knicks are the series. Well, although... You know, this Toronto, Philly, all these teams are flip-flopping around and like we're taping this today and Toronto's now the seventh seed and Philly's the sixth seed. Philly looked pretty scary in one game last weekend. But I also feel like we've had a lot of success against them over the years. But are you scared of either of those teams? No. But, you know, I know they're not playing that well. And there's still only one game behind the Knicks, but Cleveland bothers me. They have size that we don't have.

2:06:18Bill Simmons:And a lot of confidence against the Celtics. Mitchell always loves playing the Celts. Loves and always has that 40-point game against us. But, you know, I'm not sure if I want, you know, because the Knicks are only one game ahead of Cleveland. I don't know who has the tiebreaker. I'm not sure who I'd rather play in the second round, the Knicks or Cleveland. How about you? Oh, I'd rather play Cleveland. Okay. I think the Knicks think they can beat us. It might be the one good team in the conference they could actually feel that way about, but I think they have a lot of confidence. The other thing is, I was thinking about last year, the thought of Tatum going there in MSG, that part sucks, right?

2:07:01Bill Simmons:You're going back to basically the scene of the crime that's just hanging over every at New York game. I hadn't thought of that. And then I don't like that we'll take big leads and then we're kind of back. This has already happened a couple times this year. We'll be up 20 and then relax and do all the worst parts of the stuff that happened last year. You mean like last night? Like last night against Miami. We had 53 points in the first quarter and then somehow it's like a 12-point game. Going into the fourth quarter, it's a 10-point game. This is like habitual with this Celtics team for whatever reason.

2:07:36Bill Simmons:The Knicks are this team that's always down like 8 to 12 points for most of the game. and then all of a sudden they're making this rally and you're like, what happened? They were just down 16. And so you have one team that can't hold on to leads the way I would love it. And then another team that seems to love coming back, which they did last year in the playoffs in a devastating fashion two times in a row. Last year, the Knicks played Detroit. They beat Detroit. Yeah, but it was a pretty good series. Yeah, it was a good series. It was a neither or series. Wait, you went to the OKC game last Wednesday.

2:08:12Bill Simmons:I did. What was the playoff crowd? Like walk us through the crowd. It was definitely a playoff crowd. But the beginning of the game was a nervous crowd because OKC has handled us. And I know they beat us in OKC this year, but we didn't have the full squad. But we played great. It was playoff atmosphere. back and forth, back and forth. It was a great crowd standing quite a bit. And the Celtic crowd is not usually a standing crowd. And it was great to get that win. I think that was a critical win. I looked at how many wins we have against like super teams this year. Not too many. We're below 500.

2:09:01So that was a big win.

2:09:03Bill Simmons:Yeah, that stat became a big deal like a week ago. But if you picked it apart, there were a couple games where we didn't have guys playing. We didn't have guys playing. The Spurs game where Brown got thrown out. I thought some of it was explainable. Yeah. But also didn't have Tatum for most of the year. We only have six games left. I'm not sure how often they'll play Tatum in these six games. We have a game against New York in Madison Square Garden, which is always a really tough place for us. I just wouldn't play Tatum in that. So what have you seen from seeing Tatum in person and what are people in the stand saying?

2:09:39Well, if you asked me 10 days ago or a week ago, I would have said something differently. Last night, the last couple of games, I know he didn't play against Atlanta, but he's going to the basketball with force. When he came back, when I was at the games, he was very tentative and almost like he was afraid of falling or not, not falling, afraid of landing on the foot poorly. Yeah.

2:10:06Bill Simmons:Or stepping on somebody's foot or somebody's foot. Exactly. Which we see happen all the time. Yeah. Um, we saw that happen, um, to our Harper, Ron Harper jr. The other day, and he was out a couple of games, twisting that ankle. You don't want to see him twist the ankle because it's too close to the Achilles. Yeah. Um, but he looks a little less tentative now. I mean, he's still going to the basket. Every game he takes a couple of shots I wish he didn't take. But Brown does also. I just like, I don't remember him being so forceful and fierceful on the boards. I mean, he got 18 boards last night.

2:10:50Bill Simmons:That's crazy. Yeah, I was saying to Zach, I wonder if just watching 60 games on the bench made him rethink some of the stuff that both he could do, but also the team might be missing. I agree with you. Because we really missed defensive rebounding the whole season. And then as soon as he came back, he solved it. He and Cater are a great defensive rebounding combination. And it's critical not to give up those offensive rebounds, which we always give up. but since he came back it's really different there's a couple ways this team's different than last year they're a much better offensive rebounding team because the two centers aren't 25 feet from the basket last year it was like take a shot if it went in or not and then the other team was coming back the other way this year both centers like to crash the boards they have these wings like Hugo and Shireman is like, I honestly think like if we could vote for this, guys who come in and tip a rebound either backwards or to a teammate, he's like elite at that.

2:12:01Bill Simmons:I've never seen a less consequential player better at like the dumbest skill possible. But I'm telling you, he's going to like swing a playoff game with that one of these times. Jumps over like five guys, tips it to you. You know, the two players that I'm really pleasantly surprised about But there was all kinds of wondering what, when the season started about our center position. Yeah. Because we lost our three centers. And Kate has been terrific. Yeah, but your granddaughter never gave up on him. That was like her guy for two years. Yeah. But he didn't get much time. No. And he was still a little gawky out there.

2:12:41He has some moves all of a sudden. And he's a really good rebounder and he's a good defender. but the other guy is Scheidman. A year ago, you and I talked about him a little bit and I just didn't think he was going to get any time at all.

2:12:56Bill Simmons:No, he seemed like a goofball. He's wearing like the t-shirt under the jersey. Yeah. It's like, what is this guy? How did we end up with this dude? His corner three is deadly. Well, the one where he'll fake it and then he'll take a step to the side and it feels like that goes in 100 % of the time. Yeah. I think he's a sneaky good rebounder, as I mentioned. And I think defensively, he's like Hauser. These teams challenge him, and he can kind of stay in front of everybody. It's impressive. In person, he's bigger than you think. Yeah. He's actually a little bigger than Hauser in terms of body build.

2:13:33Hauser's been better. Obviously, last night he was great. He's been hot and cold this year. But the one thing I'd say is it's all coming together for the playoffs. Now you get knock on wood because that injury is right around the corner for somebody. And you hope it's not one of our guys. But I don't know. I kind of hope we play Cleveland in the second round. I don't want to see New York. I don't want to see Spike Lee in the Boston Garden sitting three rows ahead of me, jumping up and down.

2:14:05Bill Simmons:Well, we won't say Chalamet because I think he's in hiding after the Oscars. I don't think he'll be there for a couple of months. Well, he was your Oscar choice after the— No, I was rooting for MBJ. I loved MBJ. I think we've hit the part of the pod where you need to apologize yet again to Joel Mizzou. You did it when he won the title. And then this year you were saying he was getting a little second row Joe again. And he's either going to be the coach of the year or the runner up. I think Bickerstaff's going to win, but he's probably going to be second. But this team, I think, I remember talking to you after I went to that Washington game that they won when they were like one and three to start the season.

2:14:47Bill Simmons:And I was like, we suck. I don't know. I feel like we should just blow this up. Like this, this team has no chance. And he kind of wouldn't let them tank. And it's such a maniac. Like people like whose team is this? Is it Jalen's team or Jason's team? It's like, if you watch the games, this is Missoula's team. This is like, this team belongs to him and he doesn't give a shit. He'll bench anybody. He'll do whatever the intensity. Like, if we ever get in a fight with the Pistons, like some sort of altercation, like I'm worried he's going to fight Isaiah Stewart or something. He's like the enforcer on the team.

2:15:20Bill Simmons:So I don't know. You want an apology? No, I'm not ready to apologize. We'll see what happens after the playoffs. What else does the guy have to do? We are over-under. It was 42 wins. We have 51. What do you want? But I think one thing I do like about him is he has the locker room. Yeah. And he has the respect of the players. There's some coaching strategies that drive me crazy during a game. But yeah, I'm not going to apologize. Stuff like you were mad that he was taking out Tatum and Brown at the same time. You didn't understand that. I mean, it made no sense. Yeah. And we particularly, I don't know what game it was, but we started the third quarter or fourth quarter with neither out.

2:16:07And all of a sudden we lost a 10-point lead and we lost the game. Yeah.

2:16:10Bill Simmons:I know why he's doing that though, because I think he's trying to build confidence in these guys. So they're not just like always a Jalen and Jason team. But the truth is we are a Jalen and Jason team and that's what the team is. Yeah. So I see it. I see it both ways. I guess so. No, I think he's had a good year. Oh, I'm glad. He's going to finish second in coach of the year. He is a little bit out there, though. I loved yesterday when he said he doesn't want coach of the year award, and he thinks it's a stupid award. I don't know whether the coach would say that, but. Yeah. All right, so this has been a good season for you.

2:16:46Bill Simmons:Who's the best player you saw in person this year? Shea Alexander. Unstoppable. You know, that baseline jump shot that he has, a foul line, or it's a little bit further out. I don't think we stopped it once. Yeah. And he can get to the rim anytime he wants. He's the best player I've seen. Did you see? You saw Wemby, right? Yeah. I mean, Wemby was terrific. He had that unusual game where he hit. No, that was at home in San Antonio. Hit the eight threes. Yeah. But there are times when he just disappears for some reason. Wemby? Yeah. You just don't like - Alexander never disappears. Yeah. He carries that team.

2:17:41They've won games because I've watched them on TV quite a bit. They've won games they shouldn't have won because he carried them.

2:17:48Bill Simmons:Yeah.

2:17:51I'm assuming and thinking he deserves and will get the MVP. You feeling the same way? You're more of a Wemby guy?

2:18:01Bill Simmons:No, he's still favored. I'm still going to vote for him with six games left. But, you know, it's an 82-game year and we have four guys having transcended seasons in their own ways, you know. And I think there's cases for everybody. But if you're on the team that has the best record that was missing the second best guy for most of the year, you were steady the whole way through. I test wise, if you go to the games, he's like unbelievable. I mean, this is the way he plays. It's like when in the 80s, when Andrew Toney, who is the most underrated player of the 80s, we just couldn't stop him. And it felt like he could get in those zones.

2:18:39Bill Simmons:It just feels like that's every game for Shea where he's just Andrew Toney made two games a year. Every game. He's shooting 55%. When I was at the OKC game, I kept waiting. I loved the time that he was on the bench. Yeah. Because I'm not sure that anybody else scares me on that team. I think as a collective group, they play very well. But he carries them. There's nobody else carrying them. What was the fan reaction to the foul baiting and some of the calls that he gets? There was a lot of booing on the refs. He gets calls he shouldn't get. Yeah. He, he get, when you see the replay up in the jumbotron, there's, Missoula should, could have, could have had 10 challenges that game.

2:19:26Yeah. Cause he doesn't get touched. He has a great way of using his shoulder to touch the defender and then moving back and making the shot and the defender gets called for the foul more than, I mean, Brown does it a little bit, but he's, He's so skilled at it.

2:19:47Bill Simmons:Look at me foul shots he gets every game. He hit like 25 in one game. All right, so you're feeling good about the Celtics, terrible about the Red Sox. Have you started studying the draft for the Patriots yet? Well, I should also mention I'm excited about the Bruins. They've been playing very well. As you know, I don't jump in until the playoffs. Yeah, I know. Well, the playoffs will be soon, and they'll be in the playoffs, so I'm looking forward to that. But yeah, I've studied the draft a little bit. If you want to do 20 seconds on the Bruins, let's hear it. I thought you were kind of lukewarm on this team.

2:20:22No, no. I think they've done a good job with the four lines. They've assembled different groupings that have done very well. McIlroy is, I think, playing like a first-star defenseman. Swayman's been really terrific all year. I think they could go far in the playoffs so I'm looking forward to hockey playoffs and basketball playoffs it's like an old school Boston and not having to watch the Red Sox

2:20:54Bill Simmons:because all those playoff games will be on so we're out on the Red Sox I gotta look at what their over under is now it's the alternate win totals it's not so much that they're one in five I don't like the team you know You look at their lineup. Their over-unders dropped to 84.5. You know who else doesn't seem like he likes the team? Alex Cora. He has that look on his face like he hasn't gone to the bathroom in three days. They brought this bean counter in to be general manager. I like the days when we had Dombrowski because he wasn't afraid to make a trade to bring in a superstar. Now, maybe the message from John Henry is we're not spending money.

2:21:41You can't bring in that guy.

2:21:43Bill Simmons:Oh, you think that's the message? I think that's the message. I think that's established. The problem is they traded Devers and they said they were going to reinvest the money. They gave Anthony a new contract. And then I think they thought they're going to sign Bregman. And he just decided he didn't want to sign with them, but they didn't get Alonzo. so now all of a sudden you're doing all this short-term stuff and you're paying kinder falafel six million dollars right when he's a you know replacement player and you're that that's always been the issue if you look at the six million dollar players they have if you got rid of them and just use that money to get an alonzo right they just don't do it that way no it's not their philosophy i don't think they care either because the ticket price is highest in the majors we look because we're going to San Francisco next week for the rewatchables and we were I was just curious looking at the ballpark prices there on like a Tuesday night you know a Wednesday afternoon whatever and it's like less than half of what Red Sox tickets would cost San Francisco which is a major city but they just don't care they jack those up they know people are going to pay for them there is one other thing before we go I'd like to bring up The draft I'm already looking at, but - You want tight end?

2:23:01My two UConn teams are both in the summies. I don't know. I don't know where this came from. I've always been in on them. The women play tomorrow night. You have been on the women's team,

2:23:13Bill Simmons:but I don't know when the men's thing, you were like a BC, you were always waiting for whatever the Massachusetts school was. And now all of a sudden you're like an actual UConn. I went on the bandwagon. We have no good Massachusetts - Well, that's true. We don't. Division one basketball team. Well, now we're getting Bill Murray's coach for BC. Maybe he'll, Bill Murray's son to coach the BC team. It can't hurt. No, I know. So you're focused on the UConn. So big sports weekend for you, it sounds like. Big sports weekend. Can we get your review on the Madison with Michelle Pfeiffer? I really enjoyed watching it.

2:23:47I liked all six episodes. I liked the ending. It made sense. I didn't know there was a season two until you told me. I thought the younger daughter was atrocious. The older daughter was also hard to take. The two grandkids were pretty spoiled. They were awful. Otherwise, I liked the interaction between Russell and Beifer. And the scenery was gorgeous. So thumbs up.

2:24:19Bill Simmons:Another thumbs up for me. Thumbs up. Yeah, thumbs up on that one. Any new... I wouldn't have watched it except you and your wife recommended it. Any CBS shows that have really caught your fancy this year? Well, there is that new show, CIA. Yeah, what's coming out with CIA? It's in New York City. It's okay. It's okay.

2:24:42And it follows FBI. So, you know, that was a good pairing that they did.

2:24:47Bill Simmons:Oh, it goes from FBI to CIA? Yeah, I'm all in. So CBS doesn't even try to title these anymore. They're just like coming up at eight o 'clock fire. At a nine o 'clock hospital. No, eight o 'clock FBI, nine o 'clock CIA. That's the other channel on Wednesday night. Oh, that's NBC. We're talking about the Chicago shows. They do Chicago Fire, PD, and the other one? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yet you're not watching The Pit, which I just started watching. I'm the last person who got sucked in. No, I haven't gotten into that. My wife started watching it. I got sucked in and all of a sudden, within an hour, I'm completely...

2:25:27Bill Simmons:Are you binging it? You're binging it? We finished the season. This weekend, we were going to watch the whole second season. The Pit's great. I knew it was going to be good. We just... The ER, because they were saying it was going to... It was like a much grosser, kind of more intense version of ER, the NBC show. Right. And it is. There's some stuff where you're like, oh my God, I can't believe they showed that. But it's really good. I guarantee you'll like it. It's on HBO, you told me, right? Yeah. Well, it's on HBO Max. But you should watch it with your wife, who's a doctor, because I'm sure she'll pick it apart like you pick apart Joe Missoula.

2:26:03Bill Simmons:Like, oh, they would never do that. They would never. She picks apart every medical show. She tried to ruin ER when we would watch ER in the first year. Yeah, you're right. Oh, they don't do it that way. No, that's ridiculous. It's like when we're watching a basketball movie or something. But I think you would really like the pit. I'll give it a try. I have a little time on my hands. Well, you have a little time, but you adopted a puppy that has kind of dominated your life now. You're not going to bring that up again, are you? You adopted Ruby. Ruby's 14 months now, and I hope someday that she's behaving.

2:26:45It hasn't happened yet, but...

2:26:48Bill Simmons:Oh, man. I was saying if she was a kid, she would be in the class with like three teachers watching her at all times making sure. Yeah, I think she'd be in foster care.

2:27:03Bill Simmons:Oh, man. What a spring for you. All right. Well, I'll see you in Boston for some playoff games. Looking forward to it. I like this new setup here. Thank you. Yeah, we got that because we could use it whenever I'm back there. All right. Thanks, Dad. Good to talk to you. Have a good weekend. All right. Good luck to you, Con. Thanks. All right. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to House and Jason and my dad. Thanks to Gahal and Eduardo as well. I have the Sunday podcast. I think we're looking at 8 p.m. ET on Sunday, going live on Netflix with me and Zach Lowe. Lots to discuss NBA-wise and new rewatchables coming on Monday.

2:27:44Bill Simmons:We're doing Eddie and the Cruisers. So that's the docket. Enjoy the weekend. Have fun. I will see you on Sunday.

2:27:59I don't have a few years with them on the wayside

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