Smarter Fitness, Longevity, and Stress Management for Women Over 40 with Joel Jamieson

21:49Joel Jamieson:It has beneficial health effects across the board that we're seeing. But as you mentioned, I have seen muscle loss. And I think it's largely just because they eat so little because it can suppress appetite to the point where they just can't eat enough. And I've got friends and family who are in the same boat. they've lost 30 or 40 pounds, but you can clearly see that some muscle mass has been a part of that, which is a negative. So I think your goal, again, should be to not lose weight as fast as you possibly can. It should be to lose it in the healthiest way possible. So I'm an advocate of finding the right dose.

22:21Joel Jamieson:If you're going to use any GLP-1, find a dose that doesn't make your appetite so low that you can't eat or that you don't have the energy to train. I'd rather see someone lose weight slower, but more of that coming from fat than muscle, obviously. And a of times that means dying the dose down a bit and feeling like you don't have to lose 30 pounds the first month you know you can spread that out to where it's actually coming from fat so i think it's an important tool but it is one you have to be careful with because it's very easy to lose muscle if you're just not eating and i think that's really what causes the muscle mass loss as much as anything else so they're just not eating they don't have the energy to train so um you really just have to be aware of that and again it comes back to that mindset yeah absolutely Absolutely.

23:03Joel Jamieson:I do think you can maintain your muscle, though. You can maintain most of it. I think with the right dose to where you're not completely suppressing your appetite to zero and with consistent strength training, you can keep your muscle. I mean, I've seen people even gain some muscle on it. It's difficult, but you can definitely do it. Yeah. Well, if we move on to Morpheus, I've been dying to talk to you about Morpheus. So it's a chest strap heart rate monitor and you have an app that goes with it. Yep. Okay. So how does that compare to chest strap is always going to be better than, than something tracking at the wrist, but I always recommend like polar H 10 just because it, you know, it's always been shown to, to work really well, but how does that, how does yours compare number one?

23:52And what are you tracking on the app in these different ranges? Can you talk Talk to us about that.

23:58Joel Jamieson:Yeah. So as far as just heart rate monitors go, any good company's chest trap is going to do a good job. There is a Polar, a Garmin, you know, Suunto, which isn't much around. But any of any of any of those good chest trap companies out there, they're going to do a good job of recording your heart rate. Where things break down is when you're wearing an armband or a wristband or whatever else. And you're trying to do, you know, workouts or high intensity. It's just not very accurate. But the point of Morpheus was to help guide people in building their cardiovascular fitness rather than just saying, here's your heart rate as you did the workout, which is most of what Polar and the other apps are doing.

24:34Joel Jamieson:Here's a heart rate monitor. Here's your workout. It just shows you what your heart rate was. What Morpheus does is looks at your HRV, which we can talk about if you want heart rate variability. And then we give you heart rate zones for that day based on where you are at. So here's your lower intensity, which is mostly zone two. Here's your moderate intensity. And here's your high intensity. What other apps and systems do is just say that you're always at the same heart rate as the same at high intensity. So that means they'll say, okay, 90 % above, that's high intensity, or 70%, 80%, that's zone two.

25:03Joel Jamieson:But the reality is the body is dynamic. As your recovery changes, as your fitness changes, those intensities change. So just like a certain weight in the bar sometimes feels heavy and sometimes feels light based on your recovery, it's the same thing with metabolic training. Sometimes the level of exertion is a higher intensity because you're more fatigued. Sometimes it's a lower intensity because you're less fatigued. So Morpheus gives you just a more individualized heart rate training each day. It gives you zones that change. They're not static, set in stone heart rate zones. They're dynamic based on your body at that point in time.

25:36Joel Jamieson:So that's the first thing that Morpheus does different. And then the second thing is we give you a weekly amount of cardio to shoot for at those different intensities. So we give you a certain number of minutes in your lower intensity, your zone two, a certain number of minutes in your moderate intensity, a certain number of minutes in your high intensity based on where we think you need to do what we think you need to do to improve your cardiovascular fitness. And so it's giving these weekly goals to shoot for these different levels of intensity. So the Morpheus chest strap itself, it's a great chest strap, but the chest strap itself isn't dramatically different than anything else.

26:07Joel Jamieson:It's the app that's trying to give people coaching and guidance towards meeting the goals of different levels of intensity each week that they need. And the way that we built that was by looking at different people, the Morpheus database. We looked at both men and women. We looked at women and men of different fitness levels. And then we looked at what they did for 12 week periods and we separated out who improved and who didn't. And we tried to find the trends in the people that we saw improvements in in terms of...

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27:03Joel Jamieson:How they spent their time. And something that was very interesting and not surprising, I guess, is the people who had lower fitness to start with, both men and women, who did a much higher percentage of high intensity, they didn't improve as much as the people who did a higher percentage of low intensity. What we found is people didn't really need that much high intensity to improve. I'm talking, when I say high intensity, I'm talking, you know, really going at it 90 % or above, depending on where you're at. It was as low as like five to 15 minutes a week in the people that saw consistent progress.

27:32Joel Jamieson:And the people that were doing like 50 minutes, hour, hour and a half of that really high intensity, they either plateaued or went the wrong direction, particularly at low intense, low fitness levels, because their body just couldn't recover from it. so what Morpheus does like I said is it's going to try to give you a guideline of how much volume and intensity you should do across a week to get your cardiovascular fitness improved and that's what Morpheus is doing differently and we're going to continue to build on that but I just think giving people coaching and guidance is more people more important than just giving you your heart rate number yeah absolutely so it's able to so it's able to kind of take your vitals or stats and then it creates a custom range.

28:16Joel Jamieson:Yeah, it gives you exactly. Once you use it. Yeah, so we don't - And then as you improve, it like keeps adjusting. Exactly. So each week, what happens is Morpheus looks at how much cardio did eat last week. It looks at what your recovery level was, whether or not you hit those goals it set for you. And then it changes the goals for the next week. Each Monday, it's basically resetting what those weekly goals are. So if it looks at last week and it says, oh you didn't hit your goals or it says maybe you did hear your goals but your recovery just wasn't what it should have been it'll lower those goals a bit it'll change it down a bit or if it sees like oh you hit all your goals recovery looks great it'll increase those goals so it's constantly trying to adjust to what your body is doing and if you're consistently hitting your goals it's seeing your cardiovascular has improved those numbers will keep trending up they'll keep going up over time to help you progress if it's not seeing that then you'll keep keeping the same or it'll start dropping them.

29:08Joel Jamieson:So it's, again, it's this first level of using good data to help you make better decisions about training. So you're not guessing of how much do I need this week? Am I making progress? It's going to do that hard work for you and help guide you along as you try to improve your VO2 max and aerobic fitness. Okay, so this is incredible. Could you use it like a compute trainer? That's just what I'm familiar with, like a Wahoo kicker. Could you, could I be doing my kicker workout? but um or or you're giving me the the amount of time i'm wondering if you can have both like what is your app live while you're doing it so yeah so we're giving you so we're giving amount of time each week we're not necessarily giving the amount of time each day okay so i'm giving you a weekly target of different levels of intensities how you get that is really up to you now we have intervals built in the app you can choose to use those intervals to get some of those from zone to up to different types and rules I use, but it's up to you.

30:04Joel Jamieson:You can go do whatever workout you want to do. The Morpheus chest strap will record your workout and then you can upload to the app afterwards or you can use the phone to see it live while you're training. It's up to you however you want to do it. You can use Garmin watches and the Garmin will record your workout, upload Garmin to Morpheus, however you want to do it, but you can do whatever workouts you think are appropriate or whatever you have time for and then upload to Morpheus and it'll show you how many minutes you've completed towards each of those three intensity zones each week. So you can do whatever you want.

30:34Joel Jamieson:And I think that's the important thing is being flexible, but making sure you get in the number of minutes per week that you need. Cause ultimately the most important thing is just that total amount of training and the intensity of training, how exactly you do that is really less important as long as it's, you know, safe and it's not, it's not doing something that's hard on your body. That's, you know, pound your joints or whatever. But if you do it in different ways that you find enjoyable and you can be consistent with that is really important. And as long as you do it, you know, the right amount.

31:02And the right amount is is individual, individual. OK, but probably a minimum of five minutes in the red zone.

31:10Joel Jamieson:So, yeah, I mean, over a week. Yeah, it's really not much. Like I said, I was pretty shocked. I mean, maybe not that shocked at how little time we saw people spending high intensities that were seeing consistent improvements. So I looked at improvements over 12 weeks in our system. And that's an important thing I want to point out because there's been, I don't know if I'd call it a backlash, but like a recent kind of pushback against doing zone two from a lot of the scientists who did a lot of high intensity training. And their argument is kind of what you asked about before, like, oh, we don't think zone two is really the best because people don't have enough time.

31:44Joel Jamieson:And again, that's true. If you aren't going to spend more than 30 minutes or a week or 60 minutes, that's fine. You probably want to spend a good amount of that doing higher intensity. but what we found was that really was not that much high intensity that people needed to see improvements it was a pretty small amount and then again secondly if your goal is to make long-term progress and all you do is high intensity how do you progress that you can't progress it because you're just doing all high intensity to begin with so i think we just have to take a longer term more sustainable view of fitness and individualize that process if you want to see again, long-term consistent results.

32:21Yeah. So going back to HRV, so can we talk about what that is and why we care about it?

32:28Joel Jamieson:Yeah. So I'll try to make this as short as possible because we've got a long talk about just HRV, but your body has what's called the autonomic nervous system and people have probably heard about the basics. Okay. There's, there's one part of this called the stress response or this, it's the sympathetic called the fight or flight. People have probably I heard about the fight or flight. So when your body, and we want to think about these two systems is like a dial. So when your body needs energy to fight or flight, that means to work out, to deal with mental stress, to do anything that requires your body to move around and be active, your body turns that dial up and it releases hormones like adrenaline and noradrenaline and cortisol.

33:06Joel Jamieson:It does all these things to facilitate your body doing something that requires that response. So anytime you're getting mentally stressed out or you're doing a physical stress or you're doing anything like that, your sympathetic system turns on so you have the energy. That's one part. The other part is you have to call the parasympathetic side of that. And it's the other part of that autonomic nervous system. That system is to rest, digest, and recover. So it's rather than turning energy up into activity or stress, it's turning energy back into recovery and regeneration. It's more anabolic. It's driving all the things the other direction.

33:41Joel Jamieson:So these two systems work together to deal with all the stress that you're faced with on a daily basis. So as you're going about your day, you're doing things that are stressful, but you don't want to always have that on. So your other side turns it back down. And these are the fundamentals of how your body survives. It needs energy to do something stressful right now, but it needs energy to recover from that stress afterwards, right? We lift weights or we do cardio. We need to recover from that. So while we're lifting weights, the sympathetic system kicks on. when we're recovering from that the parasympathetic kicks on and the sympathetic system goes down when we're sleeping we're going through cycles where the parasympathetic system is more active it's helping us facilitate recovery all these sorts of things so I say this because this is something that we lose as age as we age and this is how I would determine as resilience okay biological resilience meaning we're really good at coping with the things that stress us out as we are young and we start to lose that ability as we get older and I'm not talking about just workouts, but we can use workouts.

34:40Joel Jamieson:For example, when I'm 20, I can work out and recover really quickly. When I'm 40, I can tell you from the experience, it takes me longer now to recover than when I was 20. When I'm 60, it's going to take me longer to recover. And when I'm 80, et cetera, if I'm still around, hopefully, it's going to take me even longer. And it's because we lose the ability of those two systems to work together and we lose the ability of those two systems to coordinate and function at a high level. That's what resilience is. Resilience is turning on the right dial at the right time to make sure your body has the energy it needs.

35:07Joel Jamieson:and another good example if i get sick when i'm 20 i'm probably not gonna be sick for very long maybe a couple days i get sick when i'm 40 might take me three or four days maybe i have more symptoms if i get if i get the flu when i'm 70 or 80 i can die flu kills people i mean viruses that do nothing to us in our 20s kill us in our 70s or 80s because we're less resilient so all that said what we are measuring with hrv is that rest and digest recovery system that parasympathetic system. And so we are looking at the baseline activity, the base level of how much that system is turned on at a given time.

35:41Joel Jamieson:And so hopefully by now it makes some sense why it's important, because the more effectively that system works, the more stress we're able to cope with throughout our lifetime, not just training stress, but physical or mental stress, environmental stress, all the things that we have to deal with, our body can deal with more effectively if that rest, digestion, recovery system is functioning better. We are better at turning off stress. We are better at dealing with recovering from any sort of other thing we're throwing our bodies and we live longer, more resilient, we're healthier in general. So what we do is we measure HRV, that parasympathetic system, by looking at your heart rate and then looking at the rhythm of the heart rate without being too technical.

36:21Joel Jamieson:We can tell by the way the heart is beating, the patterns being in, how active that parasympathetic nervous system is. That more variability we see in your heart rate, it means that parasympathetic system, that rest, digest, recovery system is higher, and that sympathetic stress system is lower. And so by measuring that over time, we can see how much stress your body is under, how resilient it is, and whether or not we are going the right direction, seeing our body's resilient increase over time. And so it's a really, really powerful tool because over time, to me, stress is either the gas pedal or it's the brake in how quickly we age.

37:00Joel Jamieson:If we deal with stress poorly, that stress accelerates our aging and we age much faster. If we can use stress in a positive way through training, we can turn that more into the brake and slow things down. The difference is in how our bodies react to it. And that's what we can measure through HRV. Okay. So that's kind of the million dollar question is what if we can't deal with stress? I mean, cause all of that, the physical stress aside of just psychological, emotional, um, and what that, what toll that, that knock on effect has throughout weeks, months, years. Yes. Yeah. The biggest thing is I think people like to compartmentalize or put their stress in the silos.

37:46Joel Jamieson:Like they say, okay, I'm stressed out from work. Now I'm gonna go get a really hard workout to get it out. Well, I'm not saying there might be some, maybe there's some benefits to that, but that stress from work impacts the stress in your workout. It amplifies the stress in your workout. A lack of sleep will then amplify everything else after that. So stress is this big picture accumulation of how much total stress your body is under. You can't compartmentalize it and be like, oh, I was really stressed out at work. So I'm gonna get a heavy workout in to like get my mind right well maybe it helped your mental state but if you put your body under even more stress that might have just slowed everything down made it worse so people just have to recognize stress is accumulation of everything and the way that you get better at dealing with it is managing it as a whole and recognizing they're all connected so if i got a very bad night of sleep because of whatever happened to you before i'm going to take that into consideration and morphe is going to show me my recovery is lower and that's going to affect my decision of how much working out I need to do, or if I need to do some recovery strategies, or if I need to spend time just meditating and relaxing, or I need to do something along those lines.

38:51Joel Jamieson:So I'm trying to make decisions about how do I manipulate those dials without letting myself get stuck in that chronically high stress sympathetic state. I want to make sure that my training, my nutrition, my sleep, my mental state, all of those things are balancing out in a way that's productive for me rather than just keeping stress upon stress upon stress and ultimately paying the price in injuries, in sickness, in just maladaptive health and all those sorts of negative things. So I think one is just being aware of it. And that's what HIV helps you do. And then. Hey, everybody. Lady Luck here.

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39:54Joel Jamieson:Two is being willing to do things on both ends. Turning down the stress as much as you can from life in whatever capacity possible, but then recognizing that your workouts may be more productive if you take a rest day or if you take a recovery day, or if you go do, you know, something that's productive from that standpoint versus just, I'm going to go in the gym and work out as hard as I can every day. So again, it comes down to connecting the dots between lifestyle and gym. Those things need to be together, not this separate picture. Okay. And that's so important. Thank you for that. That's what I personally hear every day is women won't give themselves, they won't let, they think that it's they're missing out or they're failing if they take an extra rest day.

40:39So they really won't give themselves permission to, despite all of these other things happening in their life, to really dial it back and say, maybe this season, that could be a couple of weeks or maybe a couple of months, isn't the time for me to keep trying to PR on a four rep deadlift, for example.

41:00Joel Jamieson:Yeah, exactly. And I think to me, that's the, I wouldn't call it the problem with high intensity per se, but it's the problem with the high intensity mindset. And that high intensity mindset comes from this idea that high intensity gives me the best results. That's why I have to do anything less is not effective. And that's just not the case, right? A high intensity, yes, it's important. It's a big part of the equation. But if that's not what your body needs because your body is not able to recover as well because it's under all this other stress, then a lower intensity session is going to be better.

41:29Joel Jamieson:because it's going to help your body recover. A lower intensity session just drives blood flow, some zone two stuff, 23 minutes of that. You're going to feel better after that session. If I go to the gym and I'm already stressed out from everything else, I do 23 minutes of high intensity. I'm going to feel worse after that session and that's going to accumulate over time. So we just, again, we have to get away from this idea of thinking that if I don't go at 100 % or I don't do high intensity, that's not productive. Or I have to hours and hours and hours of zone two or it's not effective. That's not true either.

41:59Joel Jamieson:it's about just thinking what is the right thing for me to do based on where my body's at and where my head's at and all these sorts of things and recognizing low is often very very valuable and a lot of times the lower end of things is gonna be better for my body than just going in there and trying to smash myself because if you do that too often you will pay the cost eventually i mean this is where we get burnout and injuries and you know fatigue and just all the things that come along with doing too much. And I think the problem is people say, Oh, I didn't do that much. I couldn't be over-trained.

42:30Joel Jamieson:Well, you could be over-trained based on what your body was capable of because you had this other stress that was driving the inability of your body to recover. So even a small amount can be too much if your body can't recover from it. Yeah. I mean, and moving every day is, is what we want people to do anyways. Uh, the zone two you recover in what an hour or two yeah it's because it's lower intensity it takes much less time to recover from and if you do a small amount of it can actually promote recovery a bit because it's just driving blood flow so honestly for me if i'm if i'm just feeling like man i had a tough workout yesterday or i didn't get a good night of sleep or whatever the case may be i'll sometimes just go do 20 minutes on the bike of zone two and some mobility work and i feel great i feel better afterwards that then allows me to go back the next day in the gym and get a really good workout versus get a mediocre workout because I was still kind of tired and trying to just get it done.

43:22Joel Jamieson:I would rather say, okay, no, today's not my day. I'm going to promote recovery. I'm going to be in the zone two range and move and just be active and feel good. Then the next day I feel so much better. I can go back and get the workout in that I actually want to get in rather than, again, trying to just do high intensity for the sake of doing high intensity. Yeah. Oh, I know within the first five minutes every time I'm like not happening today. Yeah. And I'll say too, the biggest thing that people need to recognize is it's obvious, but we don't always think about as much as as we age, we just can't do as much.

43:52Joel Jamieson:And I can tell you, I'm 46 now. I can probably only do 70 % of what I could have done in my 20s. It doesn't mean I couldn't do it. The better way to say it is I could do it, but I shouldn't do it. Because if I do what I did in my 20s, I will pay a much higher cost than I would have in my 20s. If I do the same program I did 20 years ago, my recovery would not last very long and I'd be fatigued and I'd probably run into some injuries and problems. In my 20s, I could do it. I can't do it right now and be successful with it. So we just have to be aware of what our own limitations are and just be smart about it rather than trying to, again, just do as much as we can for the sake of doing as much as we can.

44:27Yeah. And to circle back to cardio, do you have, can that be done a hit session on any piece of equipment or for the women that aren't going to a gym and don't have any equipment at home? I know what I prefer, but I, you know, I have a bike at home. But if I didn't, and there's no equipment, what would your option be?

44:51Joel Jamieson:Yeah, I mean, you can do body weight calisthenics. You can do, you know, jump rope. You can jog in place. You can do light stuff. I mean, it's hard if you have zero equipment, but just getting your heart rate up is the most important thing. However it is that you get the heart rate up is less important as long as, again, you're not doing something that's unsafe. But you can play around. I mean, you can Google body weight exercises, and there's millions of different exercises you can do to get your heart rate up. The most important thing, like I said, is just getting your heart rate up. How you do it is up to you.

45:19Okay, good to know. I would have never thought you would have said jog in place.

45:25Joel Jamieson:I mean, if that's what, so, you know, during, during COVID, I did a, I realized people couldn't go to gyms. And so I did a gym free conditioning program and a ton of people did it. It was just all bodyweight exercises and jogging in place. So they couldn't go outside. And then I was, I guess I wasn't shocked, but I got a huge number of emails from people who were like, I actually made more progress doing this than I would normally do going to gym because I would just, you know, was focused on the cardiovascular side of things. I wasn't overloaded myself as much. And all of a sudden, my VO2 went up, my heart rate's down, like I feel better.

45:55Joel Jamieson:So, you know, you don't have to have a ton of equipment to do it. You just have to be consistent with it and find something that works. Yeah, back to the basics. Yeah, exactly. I mean, bodyweight jump squats, do those for 10 seconds, rest 30 seconds. I mean, really simple things. Get your heart rate up and give you both strength and cardio at the same time in that sense. And thank goodness that's the case because then it really leaves nobody out. There isn't something that somebody can't do at home versus, you know, in a gym. Obviously, you probably want if if and when possible for someone to be in the gym setting just for the variety of of equipment.

46:34But it is good that we can do it. You know, not every not every female is going to ever get to a gym for X, Y and Z reason. So they can improve. They can build muscle. they like all of that can can happen yeah i mean at home you can do bodyweight squats you can do

46:53Joel Jamieson:lunges you can do step-ups onto your couch i mean there's single leg squats on the couch i mean push-ups obviously there's a million things you can do at home you get a couple sets of dumbbells or kettlebells lots and lots of ways to exercise at home and i would say that's the one good thing maybe not the one good thing but social media gives you so many ideas for how to do exercises with different implements i mean there's so many things out there that some are crazy but there's just a lot of people out there showing you how to do different exercises with minimal equipment and that's a good thing.

47:21Joel Jamieson:I think I would say the most important thing for most people is just finding something that they enjoy doing. Simple as that sounds. If you hate doing something, most people aren't going to do it very long. So it's just finding ways to work out that you enjoy. Whether it's staying at home, going to gym, playing pickleball or whatever. Just find things that you enjoy doing and you're going to be consistent with and that you feel better after doing than before. I think that is an underrated thing. If you feel terrible afterwards, probably not going to do it as long as you think. If you feel good afterwards, you're energized, maybe you're tired, but you enjoy the process.

47:56Joel Jamieson:You feel tired, but energized. If you feel like that after something, you're going to keep doing it. I think figuring those things out for yourself is really important. So I'm curious what your week looks like. My week? Yeah. I have a home gym where I do most of my zone two stuff. So I have a woodweight treadmill. I have an elliptical. I have a Kaiser bike, a bunch of stuff in my old gym. So I'll do a lot of the lower intensity stuff, zone two type stuff on that. And then for my high intensity, I play racquetball, which is just a way of running around at higher intensity in a competitive way. I really personally don't love high intensity if it's not somewhat competitive with people.

48:35Joel Jamieson:So I'll do either one day a week of racquetball or two days a week of competitive racquetball. That's where I get my heart rate up. and then I'll lift two to three days a week now. And when I was in my 20s, it was a very different story. I would lift four or five days a week. My cardio was a much smaller portion of that. But as I've gotten older, my priorities have shifted. And there's really good research. We can talk about it. But mostly what we see in research and what I can just tell you anecdotally is two to three times a week in strength training is more than enough for most people to hit the amount of strength they need to maximize the longevity benefit.

49:08Joel Jamieson:There's correlational studies, meaning they look at people who different, do different amounts of strength training and look at how long they live and they find, and papers are clear, like two to three sessions a week is where you see people living the longest. It doesn't mean that's the cause. It just means it correlates, but we don't see people doing four or five, six sessions a week of strength training, living longer on average and people do a lot less. So again, I don't think most people need to spend more than two or three sessions a week, lifting weights if their goal is longevity. It doesn't mean they can't, they love it, but I don't think it's from a health standpoint as beneficial as doing two or three sessions and then making sure you get your cardio in because if you're lifting five days a week where's your cardio coming in it's probably not yeah so um so personally like i used to lift a lot five six days a week now i lift two to three depending on the week my high intensity is either one day a week of playing racquetball games sometimes two days a week of playing racquetball games and then at least once a week i do recovery work so uh the spa i go to and they have hot hot tubs and cold plunges and saunas and steam rooms i'm getting a i'm getting a sauna built for my house here.

50:09Joel Jamieson:I've got a pool, a hot tub, and then the sauna will be put in. I have a river I can jump in for my cold plunge. But at least one day a week, I do active recovery like that. I get a massage, treat my soft tissue, that kind of stuff. So I just kind of mix things up depending on, again, my recovery. If I'm having a lower recovery week, my sleep's not what it should have been, then I'll do one day of high intensity. If it's looking good, then I'll do two days. But the rest of it's lower intensity. Okay, good to know. I'm going to start booking a weekly massage because it is part of recovery. It is.

50:42Joel Jamieson:I mean, I think there's a lot to be, I mean, again, it's not accessible for everybody. It's not cheap. You know, massages, they cost money, but you can do soft tissue work on yourself. You can get a Theragun or get a foam roller. I mean, there's lots of ways to just spend time doing some sort of soft tissue. Exactly how you do it's up to you. But I just think there's benefit to doing some manual therapy on yourself or having someone I'll do it for you once a week. And on that day where I do that, it's a, it's an off day. It's a relaxing day. So again, I'll do some sort of hydrotherapy and then some sort of soft tissue massage at least once a week.

51:14Joel Jamieson:And to me, it makes a big difference. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. I'm, I'm implementing that right away. So Joel, this has been a fantastic conversation. Where can listeners find more about your, you and your work so that they can reach out if they are interested? Sure. Two things, eightweeksout.com. Just a number eight weeks out.com is where I have education and content. We're all these different things. I have courses for trainers. I have a eight week VO two max program called metamorphosis. And then Morpheus itself, like we talked about just train with Morpheus.com if they want to learn more about that.

51:48Joel Jamieson:So either one of those is just fine or they can find me at Instagram coach Joel Jameson, but any of those, any of those will work. Perfect. Well, thank you so much for coming on the body pod and sharing all of your expertise. We really appreciate your time. No problem. Happy to come on. Thanks for listening, everyone. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider giving us a five-star rating and sharing the body pod with your friends.

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