How Halo’s Co-Creator Alex Seropian Is Building the Future of Gaming with Look North World

0:00Ian Shepherd:Alex Seropian, co-creator of Halo and founder of Look North World, has built games for decades. But today, he says the future belongs to creators. Kids are paying more time here than they are on TikTok and Instagram. On platforms like Roblox, Fortnite and Minecraft, creators are building billion-dollar worlds from their bedrooms. The audience itself is building the game. So it gets bigger and bigger every year. There's more stuff. Inside Look North World, Alex is funding the next generation of game builders, giving them money, mentorship, and full ownership of their IP. I think where we're going to see a lot of adoption are on these player creator platforms where there's a full 360 degrees of participation in the play experience.

0:44Ian Shepherd:From Halo to Roblox, from AAA studios to teen-built universes, this is the new frontier of gaming. This is this generation that's growing up. Basically, they're going to be building the future of the game industry. This is the business of creators, and this is an episode you really don't want to miss.

1:06Ian Shepherd:So Alex, the gaming industry feels like it's shifting from this retail era to the platform era. From your vantage point, what are you seeing? Game industry is fascinating to me. When I got my start, it was the 90s. That's a few decades ago. And it does seem like the game industry kind of reinvents itself every so often. You know, I worked through the advent of 3D graphics. There was a time when we didn't have that, you know, the internet. And there is definitely something that's been happening since, and I would guess maybe you could say it's since the COVID years, maybe. But we have games now that have been really popular for many, many years.

1:51I mean, to look at a game like Minecraft, which has been around for probably a decade, probably longer, I should know. And you also have games like Fortnite and Roblox that they seem to get better and better every year, where traditionally, you know, in the game industry, you'd have a game come out, you have this amazing launch, and then, you know, you get this long tail, maybe, if you're lucky, and then you're on to the next thing. But the industry behaves a little differently now because the games get, they tend to get better every year. And those particular three games that I mentioned, because they're creator platforms, there's a whole, the audience itself is building the game.

2:27So it gets bigger and bigger every year. There's more stuff. So if you look at just from like an industry perspective, there's a big structural shift because a lot of content that's being games that are being discovered are coming from the players themselves. and at the same time new games that get released by standalone games being built by the big studios they're they're kind of competing over a smaller percentage of the market because these these big forever games are just they're growing so that's a that's a structural distribution thing which at the same time you know a whole generation of gamers that are growing up as they're not just players but they're player creators they've grown up in these games with the expectations that they're either making things or they're in and around of a community and a culture that's making stuff and they're sharing and it's almost it's almost like a social media of its own you know and so those two things started happening i think during covid i mean i definitely saw with my kids growing up inside of fortnite inside of minecraft you know because they couldn't go outside and those two things happening at the same time i think has produced a it's a just a different market today than what you kind of looked at you know even just five years ago so when you ask like hey is there this new thing uh you know this platform era you know maybe i i might call it the creator era even that they're yeah that it's it's definitely a thing it's starting to i mean i'm in i'm in the game industry right so i see it every day but i go home to uh chicago and visit my relatives and you know when one college kid is playing grow a garden on the couch it's like okay So this is not just for, you know, a game nerd like me.

4:08The Minecraft movie comes out and is freaking huge. And everybody's throwing popcorn around the theater and having a moment. Soup Dog is like doing his concert in Times Square, but I'm watching it inside of Fortnite. Like all this stuff, it's bonkers. You know, the most played game of all time is a Roblox game made by somebody who grew up on Roblox of all time. Which one is that? Grow a Garden. i think it's about to be surpassed by a different game steal the brain rot which

4:34Ian Shepherd:unbelievable you can't predict these things you know well so yeah that this whole new if there's a new era happening this is it you know this this is this generation that's growing up basically they're going to be building the the future of the game industry and you built halo into one of the biggest franchises ever what does it feel like building a game within fortnight as an example Yeah, I think, you know, like in sort of the pre-roll we were talking about, this is a career that I don't think I ever would have predicted for myself. Or at least this, I guess, all of my career. How could you predict it?

5:09But this particular thing. And it is a different way of thinking, making games inside of these creator platforms, because there's a few things that are very different. The first part is you're building in a community. So traditional game development, you're making a game that you're hoping is going to appeal to a certain kind of player. It's fun for some particular reason. And then when you go and try to find an audience for it, you're kind of going out into the world. And you're kind of hoping that folks who are probably already playing something will take a break from that and come and play your thing.

5:45And maybe they're going to stick with your thing forever or whatever. But it's a whole different mindset when you're building in a community where you're not really, I mean, there's this kind of, we call it switching costs, you know, for the, for the players inside of say Roblox, for them to go try something new. They don't have to give up anything. In fact, they can move with their friends who are online at the very moment and go choose to go experience a new game together. And that's a whole new kind of mobility for gamers. And so if you're thinking about how you're building games in that environment, players can come into your experience really easily.

6:23They can move on to a different experience really easily. I mean, that's kind of almost the whole point of how these platforms work. So as a game maker, that's a big difference. And it has a big influence on how you think about building. You know, on one hand, it's hard to, well, I shouldn't say it's hard. It's like you're kind of rewarded for being relevant. You know, so there's a huge incentive to be quick, to be able to build quickly because speed and timeliness is a key ingredient to relevancy. You have to be in the moment. And that's very different from traditional game development, which take, you know, which usually takes a lot of paper design and a lot of iteration and a lot of forethought and deconstructing the past to build a new future.

7:10And a lot of those rules don't necessarily make sense in building in these community environments.

7:17Ian Shepherd:Well, I'm really excited to talk about your new business and what you're building, Look North World. How do you describe that to someone outside of the industry? Well, to my brothers or whatever, some of these games like Fortnite and Roblox are universal. Even they know what those are. So I do still say I make games for a living and will always be proud to say that. And that's kind of just how I characterize it. You know, I'm making games for Fortnite. I'm making games for Roblox. It sort of leaves a lot of the nuance of it aside, but it's relatable for sure. Can you talk about the creator label and what you're trying to achieve there?

7:56Yeah, 100%. I mean, so like I was saying, these platforms are, they're very much community platforms. They're very much, I call them player creator platforms because everybody involved is playing and making. And like any new form of entertainment, I think there's a real authentic voice to be heard by folks who are being creative, who've kind of grown up in these environments, who are immersed in them daily. And I think this is true for any art form, you know, that the more immersed you are in the milieu of it, the more you can explore and be creative. So our Creator program is really, on one hand, it's a celebration of that.

8:42But on the other hand, it's a strategic move of ours to be able to find, support, and accelerate native talent on these platforms very much. I mean, I think we approach these platforms humbly. You know, we have been making games for decades and we're masters of this craft. But there's a ton that we don't know. And we did not grow up here. You know, we grew up in a different context. So finding and getting to work with new young talent on these platforms is, I think, critical for a business like ours. And that's what our creator program is all about. It's really, it's a micro publisher that gives us an opportunity to find, work with, and accelerate new talent coming up on these platforms.

9:25And I think this, we think about it long term as well. It's not just, oh, you've got a great game. Okay, let us publish it. It's more like, you've got a fantastic idea. Why don't you come? You can develop your idea alongside us and we can help you where you need it or want it. And we can help support it with some funding. And then we can help bring our audience to it when it's done. And then we can do a second and a third and maybe even there's more, you know, there's it's the way we approach it. It's a very creator friendly program, too, where the IP, the creator gets to keep their IP. yet we're all incentivized to continue to develop it for the long term.

10:04So I mean, I kind of view these platforms as being the beginning of the future of the game industry. We're already seeing a whole new category of games become popular outside of Roblox that I think really kind of got their cultural start inside of communities like Roblox. Like if you look at games like Lethal Company is a great example of a game that's got really popular on Steam and the developer actually started on Roblox and you can kind of see the sensibility of the gaming culture and the play style from a community like Roblox showing up in a Steam game like Lethal Company and whole category of games, these kind of like casual social games like Peak, et cetera, that have, I think, lineage to these kinds of platforms.

10:46So Creator Label is as much about that as well. It's like thinking long-term about like how we build. Any company that's doing creative work is interested in the talent that's producing the games is the most important part. So this is critical for us thinking about long-term how we develop the talent at our company.

11:03Ian Shepherd:I love that. And how do you identify the talent? Well, I mean, that's a fantastic question. There are, I don't know the exact number of games that are being produced on a daily basis, but it's a lot. And I think these platforms are great for that because the tools are easy to use and they're built right into the game. These platforms, Roblox, Minecraft, Fortnite in particular, they share something in common where games are built, discovered, monetized. It's kind of like start to finish all right there. So there's just, there are a lot of creators and a lot of content. How do you find them? Well, we have invested in building a community that we reach out to.

11:37We very much scout, meaning, you know, we keep our eyes open. And when we see something cool, we do reach out. We try to build relationships. something unique maybe that we do is we run an invitation-based game jam which is an opportunity for creators to come spend a week with us build games together there's no strings attached they build something and then they could do whatever they want with it but in many cases that sort of boot camp week has turned into publishing arrangements and we've shipped probably three games that have come just through that game jam process that's just a great way for a creator and for us as a company to kind of get to know each other, have a little bit of time working together, form some relationships, et cetera.

12:21So we do that as well. And just, I mean, we do open submissions, you know, also. So the opportunity to come and actually work alongside, you know, developers who have been at this craft for, you know, 30 years-ish is a cool opportunity. And the fact that we do pay as well, does bring some folks to our door. So that's kind of how we approach, try and find excellent talent.

12:54Ian Shepherd:That sounds fantastic for you and for them. I understand you're building an AI tool to port experiences between Fortnite and Roblox. That sounds transformative. What do you think about sort of the impact that might have on the industry? Well, I think, I mean, a few things. Like I said at the earlier, speed on these platforms matters, You know, it matters because the Roblox, Fortnite, Minecraft, they're kind of kids are spending more time here than they are on TikTok and Instagram. I read an article about this. And if you kind of you kind of look at where companies like like Meta and Netflix are kind of investing and what they identify is their primary competition for eyeballs.

13:34It's these kind of platforms right here. Being able to go quick and be relevant and be a part of the daily lives of people in a fun way is super interesting and important for a business, right? So being able to operate or bring content that's successful to multiple platforms for us as a company is a big win. I mean, and it's a strategic move for us. So we have invested a lot in basically turning our tech that we're building into the ability for us to operate like a multi-platform. You know, it's basically, we started this to build games where gamers are, you know. and we realized that going out to go hunt for where the gamers are is a lot more difficult than to just put the games in a community where they already are and if we can do that in a couple of

14:24Ian Shepherd:places at once it's good for us and it's it's good for it's good makes absolute sense i'm curious what role do brands and ip holders have in this whole new world and i know you work with some of them but i'd love to learn more about that you know i kind of i kind of look at it from a couple of different points of view. There's an amazing amount of incredible intellectual property in the games business, you know, just games that have come out, characters, worlds, et cetera. And a lot of them, I mean, if you look at Fortnite's built a big part of their business around bringing a lot of those characters into Fortnite, you know, into their battle pass.

15:01And they do that for more than games. It's across all of entertainment, a lot of Marvel characters in there, you know, et cetera. So from one perspective, I look at a brand's role on these platforms as bringing relevant characters' worlds in IP to a new platform like we would have done anywhere. You know, like, you know, new console comes out. I was like, oh, I can't wait to play the next Spider-Man game. That's going to be awesome. So from that perspective, there's I look at those brands as a playground to be able to create something new that is relatable and has some history to it. And, you know, it can be a lot of fun for an audience.

15:40The other part of this is that there are brands that are not gaming brands. They're not IP. They are companies that are relevant to this audience and they want to get their non-gaming, whatever it is, you know, like we've done a game with DoorDash, for instance, to create a relationship between a brand and a gamer. And that is also a really fascinating part of the business. I mean, these platforms are all free. And the fact that they exist in some ways is a miracle because somebody had to take a big risk to build something that is so capable with the hope that people would show up and it would create a community and an engine for being sustainable.

16:24And brands, I think, play an important role in that. From a business side, we talk about the size of the video game industry a lot, and it's over$200 billion globally every year. So it's a very big business, but that doesn't even include the advertising business. And the advertising component of the games business is almost as big as the commercial revenue part of it. So I think it's about$150 billion worth. And that creates a lot of jobs. It creates a lot of opportunities and it creates a lot of games to keep these ecosystems going. So I think the brands have a really interesting part to play in the whole sustainability of the games business.

16:59Got it.

16:59Ian Shepherd:That's a really great segue into my next question, actually, just the evolving model and the evolving business model. What do you think is going to win in the new world? You mean like the various business models? Exactly. Exactly. Well, win is an interesting question. It sort of implies that there's one. And I'm not sure that that's really the likely outcome. I mean, I'm a huge fan of the single player story based campaign game. you know, the AAA fire up the console. I'm going to like, just go deep for 20 hours and play this story and get to the end and have a good cry and move on to the next, you know?

17:38And I don't think that's going to go away. At least I hope that never goes away. It's just a phenomenal curated art, you know, artistic experience that somebody has put together as a bespoke like thrill ride. And hard to imagine that becoming a free, like a free to play experience, which is kind of where we've seen a lot of the industry growth in the last decade or two. And at the same time, I don't think that's going to go away. I think that there will always be a market for that. So I think that still has an opportunity to be a winner. I wouldn't say that's going to be the winner, but that's an experience that I think can still have a thriving business model.

18:23I think where we're going to see a lot of growth, though, I think where we're going to see a lot of adoption are on these player creator platforms where there's a full 360 degrees of participation in the play experience. So there are platforms where you're not just playing, but you're playing, you're making, you're sharing, that there is commerce built into those platforms, that there is a huge social component to them. It is what these, I mean, and this is admittedly, it's a little self-serving, but this is where we've chosen to invest our efforts in developing new content is from platforms that have these kinds of features.

19:01And I think that is where we're going to see a lot of growth. And it's because those platforms, they have a positive feedback loop. You know, it's like every time an audience comes through and experiences something, the platform actually gets better because of it. And it pays it forward to the next season or the next release or even just tomorrow. And that's new. That's a new thing. And I think it's very exciting.

19:29Ian Shepherd:Thank you for making that distinction there. I agree there are many different models that can coexist. What about for the builders and the creators? Do you think they can now create a sustainable living? Well, I believe so. I mean, it's like anything in entertainment. You know, it's kind of hard to predict when something is going to be successful. I mean, you can do a lot of things to sort of maximize that chance, but, you know, people are people. I was on a call earlier today where we kind of came to the realization that people have taste. Some people have good taste, some people have bad taste, whatever.

20:06People have taste, and that's fantastic. And we were talking about AI. Yeah, it doesn't have any taste. And so it's hard to understand, you know, it's hard. You could be a tastemaker maybe, but it's hard to really predict where hits are going to come from. So can creators on these platforms make a living creating on these platforms? Yes, of course. We've seen it. A lot of creators doing exceptionally well. Will all creators make a living on these platforms? No. It's like any part of entertainment. There's a, you know, it's a power curve where the things that are successful tend to generate the lion's share of the revenue.

20:39I will tell you an interesting thing that I discovered that was actually was pointed out to me. I had to do this discovery. It was pointed out to me that these platforms like, say, Roblox in particular, the top cohort of games, like the top 10 % of games, account for a smaller share of revenue than the top 10 % of Steam games, which means that a platform like Roblox is more equitable. You can be successful in making money the further down the percentile chart you are. So if there's more revenue depth for performance on a platform like Roblox, and I think it's because these platforms are not spend driven.

21:16They're not platforms where, say, I, as a well-funded publisher, can come in and just pay my way to the top and squish everybody below me down. They're more egalitarian and equitable that way. So, yeah, can creators make a living here? Absolutely. it takes the same thing it takes to make a living anywhere talent persistence and luck two out of

21:40Ian Shepherd:the three and you're doing pretty good that's a great stat um well we've spent a lot of this conversation talking about the new world but what's the sort of the one consistent thing that you've taken through your whole career from you know the first games to to where we are now i mean i would say that the consistent thing is is is is people i mean the games are made by people and that has never changed. The people have changed, you know, over time. But the fact that the games that we play are the creative expression of the people that make them has been a truism throughout my career. And you can see, you know, the exciting thing.

22:12Here's one exciting thing about being old is you get to see that evolution of as new people come in and start making games, the kinds of games being made evolve, change, or different. We're seeing things being created today that weren't even possible when I got started, yet there's still the reflection of the creativity of the individuals who are making them. And I love that. And it's why I'm still making games. It's like, every time I have an inflection point in my career, I always say to myself, time to do something different. But the reality is, this is the craft that I know and love and couldn't couldn't imagine you know what life would be like if i wasn't in it so it really does come down to

22:59Ian Shepherd:the people and what excites you most about where the industry may be in five or ten years well you know it's probably over kind of overused to talk about ai and how it's going to have a transformative effect on everything in our lives but i will say whether it's ai or not the game industry is interesting, more interesting than any other form of entertainment, because it is a blend of creativity and technology. And like I said, the creativity evolves because the generation of gamers changes every few years. The technology also evolves because we invent and discover new things every couple of years.

23:36And, you know, I was talking earlier about living through the introduction of 3D graphics and, you know, when the internet became a tool we could use and And AI is, you know, we had blockchain and that didn't really kind of turn into much. You know, we have AI happening right now and we're starting to see maybe this is going to be a thing and we'll create some interesting tools for game developers to use. There will be another interesting piece of tech that comes afterwards. And that is what excites me about the industry five, 10 years from now is that we'll always have some new piece of technology in our toy box, in our tool chest to use to create new kinds of experiences.

24:10And I couldn't have predicted what games we're playing today, five years ago. I can't predict what games we're going to be playing five years from now. But I know it's going to be awesome. And we'll be experiencing it in some new kind of way. And that's what continues to make me interested and excited in this industry.