Agentic Transformation with Kayleen Weaver & Patrick Kelly

0:00Joel Cheesman: Hide your kids, lock the doors. You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark. Buckle up boys and girls. It's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.

0:27Oh yeah. What's up everybody? It is the podcast your HR lady warned you about. We are the Chad and Cheese Podcast. I'm your co-host Joel Cheeseman. Joined always, Chad Soash is in the house. Hello. And welcome to RepFest USA, Nashville. Oh! Yeah! Come on, the Brits are lighter than that. I said, welcome to Wreckfest USA. Here we go. There we go. Let's do some jumping jacks. No. One of us drank too much last night. I'll let you figure out who it was. Good luck with that. Word for a day of disruption, Chad. I'm frankly glad that there aren't just a bunch of humanoid robots in the audience. Because I've been led to believe that the people are worthless.

1:15that we don't need them anymore. Apparently we do.

1:17Joel Cheesman: I don't think that's what it is. I think, and that's this stage, obviously, we're going to be talking about tech all day. Hopefully you'll be able to pop in and out, actually hear from what you're getting ready to, tease, tease, some practitioners who have problems, use technology, practitioners, practitioners that use technology to actually drive outcomes. And that's what we're looking for. All this bullshit, dystopian stuff, we're not going to get into it. We're going to get into our everyday work. Should we begin the show? Let's do it. We made them wait long enough. Everybody, welcome Patrick Kelly and Kayleen Williams to the stage.

1:57There are two experts on the stage, and it's not Chad and Cheese. Welcome, everybody. We have the mic up, so we'll get some mics for you guys. Get comfy. Welcome, guys. Yeah. You having a good time in Nashville? What did you do last night? It's been great. I just got in yesterday. Use your mic. There you go. Just got in yesterday. we had the recruiting leadership summit yesterday, which was a friend of lots of impactful conversations. And so after that, my brain was a little bit fried with information and I did a little bit of socializing and then took it in for the night. Okay. Good call. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

2:29It's a marathon, yes. I flew in late last night, so I'm not very, I didn't have an amazing night. I just had to the hotel and get ready for an amazing next couple of days. All right. Get ready for Marty Grah, my friend because it's going down all right something we always do on the show is a little we call the twitter bio it's a 30 second sort of about you not the business stuff family sports whatever where you're from give us a 30 second son you feeling all right well i am about three hours away in knoxville tennessee uh go halls i've got um a daughter that's a sophomore at utk and then a son in middle school um have been happily married for many many years i'm not going to date myself, but currently working in the senior living industry, I really found a passion in senior living.

3:17How many of us are in the sandwich generation? We are in that place where we're taking care of our kids. Our moms and dads are getting older. We're having to take care of them. So the work that I do is really meaningful for me. I was able to have my mom in senior living community and really enjoy some of the best last days of her life while she was there. So getting to do talent acquisition for a senior living company and hire for those people. It was really special. A few games of fruit bingo under your belts. She loved bingo, but more than bingo, it was poker. Oh. All right. All right, Patrick.

3:50Give us your 30 seconds. Okay. Patrick Kelly, vice president of operations of a company who actually services a handful of her properties. We didn't know that until we met a few weeks ago. From Baltimore, Maryland, my wedding anniversary year was this week actually for seven years mine too well a day 21st 21st of september fire baby that's right exactly um and then uh you know three cats no kids uh taking care of an elderly parent so i understand where she's coming from i'm in the health care world as well uh with a company that does uh wound care across all long-term care facilities in 20 states and I'm happy to be here.

4:32Any elderly cats? We have an eight-year-old lady who is getting terrorized by a two-year-old. Yeah, a little bit. All right. Cat living.

4:43Joel Cheesman: Okay, let's go ahead and start with you. Let's dig into this. Obviously, we're here to talk about problems, solutions. What was the big problem that you want to talk about today on stage? Let's go through the whole story of the solution, how you found that curve line? Yeah, great question. So I started with AmeriCare Senior Living about two years ago. We operate in five different states. We have 140 LLCs and then two of our other service lines of business. So it's a pretty large organization with a very slim TA team. So I have a team, there's five of us, and then we have two interns and we do about 3 ,500 hires a year.

5:23And so for us, opacity was a huge, huge problem. And one of the things that my recruiters were having to do that was just very manual and tedious is go in and turn all the ads on for all of our sponsors, sponsored jobs, which really if you're wanting to get the word out about hiring for caregivers, you're going to have to put some money on it. And so we had a significant investment there that we really just were not able to manage very well. And so I came to RecFest last year. I spent a lot of time talking to every single vendor. I wanted to know what was out there. There's a lot of sexy products out there and they keep changing and my eyes lit up and there was tons of things that I wanted to do, but I knew that I had to solve a business problem.

6:06And so after vetting several different vendors and we ended up choosing Jovio as a programmatic partner, I launched them in January. It was a seamless launch. And from there, we saw a drop in our CPA significantly. we actually launched with jovio diversified our job boards that we advertise on right in the nick of time before indeed did its horrible thing so which horrible thing i don't know i mean i don't know there's a long list there's a long list just for context the 3 500 hires what percent was sort of nurses and health care related and how much was the support staff yeah yeah great question so i would say we're about 40 on the clinical side we have a lot of skilled nursing communities that really need folks that have those clinical licensures.

6:55And then for us, the cooks and the housekeepers, those were not the hard to get. So it was really those hard to fill roles. And when we first started with Jovio, we piloted the clinical positions alone, and we were able to get 40 percent more applications than we got on Indeed the entire last year within the first three months with Jovio's push for clinical jobs and lowered our CPAs.

7:17Joel Cheesman: Is that because of distribution or is it just because it managed? sauce, it managed Indeed better or both. So we have them managing our Indeed sponsorships, but then also all of the other programmatic jobs that they go to bid for. And so they're using job boards that I'd never heard of. They're turning the ads on and off when job seekers are actually looking. And so what we were doing is we were just throwing money away, running ads, you know, for a week at a time with no strategy to it. And so they are the agentic AI strategy behind the way that we are advertising for our jobs, which is getting us the most bang for our buck.

7:55Throwing money away, Chad, because 60 % of the time, it works every time. Yes. So for us, it was actually a journey of, I'm in private equity healthcare, or was until we just got sold. So we're always told to do more with less. Private equity stuff. Yeah. Private equity stuff. Keep the finance tiers happy. So what we did is we actually engaged Jovio to develop our career page because we weren't allowed to have one for a very long time. And they use AJNIC AI. You weren't allowed to have one. You weren't allowed to have a career page? Yes, exactly.

8:33Joel Cheesman: How did anybody know you had careers? You know what? My team still filled 100 positions without a careers page. So it's quite hiring. All the kids are doing it. No job. We don't exist, but we have Joveo. So while we stood up the ATS and while we stood up that, we actually engaged Joveo to create a careers page for us out of Agentic AI. And it actually allowed us to scale up because we were scaling up not just in our own area, but in other areas, too. So we could get vascular nurse practitioners, get room care nurse practitioners, and actually flip our career pages basically in a week to have a whole new page set up just for those people.

9:13I think we might be ready. Are we ready? Here we go. Much more interesting than you. You can talk us through this while I was going too. So we used them to develop a career page that was actually pointed directly to our, we wanted to stay very cognizant of our brand, which is a small doctor's practice brand that just happens to be in 20 states. Yeah. So we really focused it on our people. All the pictures on there are our practitioners, but we wanted to honestly get it out to all the areas that we hire jobs because we're a mobile practice. That means we don't have brick and mortars in these states.

9:52So we have jobs all across the states. We also utilize them to do a chatbot to help our recruiters have a place where questions can be answered prior. And it actually allows our nurse practitioners to go in there or other physicians and apply just by answering four or five questions. We have a very shortened application process because we know that fast is better. And honestly, they just basically name, email, license number for nurse persecution where they're looking for jobs. And it goes directly in feeds over to the stuff matter. So does that music play when I'm using the career site? Because it's very easy.

10:37That's the that's the robot music. So you mentioned speed. Asking both of you, I know with nursing, speed is of the essence, right? You got to get these candidates when they're on the market. So talk about speed when you guys made the changes, how speed was impacted, speed to hire, application, all that good stuff. OK, so application for us, it was actually effective where we saw a little bit of a different approach where we were getting less applications, but more poignant applications. So we were pulling in wound care nurse practitioners or nurse practitioners interested in wound care or vascular services.

11:12So we weren't getting, you know, pediatrics, which were mainly servicing geriatrics. The way we were kind of doing it is and I know our tech guys can speak better to it, but they're building. We have elements building backwards pages behind it. That's actually creating content that feeds out to anyone using chat GPT or asking questions. Where do I want to go if I want to find a job?

11:34Joel Cheesman: So it's not just search engine marketing or search engine optimization. It's also doing answer engine optimization. Anybody else doing that in the crowd? The kids call it AEO. AEO doing the answer engine. Because we lost the search engine optimization thing to Indeed that killed us. And we lost a bunch of candidates that just went directly to Indeed instead of into our applicant track systems. If we're not looking at answer engine optimization, the same shit's going to happen. But you guys are already up on that. Yeah, we're already doing it. We know that we're a good testing ground for it because we're very like, we have three positions that we mainly hire.

12:14So we can build out these things very quickly and get that out in the background to pull the right candidate in through, you know, programmatic AI too as well. Those things have that in the background. Can you want to talk about speed? So speed is important. When I started at my company, there was a lot of cleanup that we needed to do with our workflows, our processes. So after hitting up RecFest and bringing all that information back, trying to choose the vendor, I wanted to make sure that I was going to bring some technology in that would serve a business problem. And so we started to clean up our time to fill and just your recruiting processes, entering in workflows, doing a ticket system, having a dashboard, trying to add some different reporting tools for our operations managers before I even pitched AI to them.

13:02Because there's no point in us trying to bring AI to optimize and run crap faster down a hill if we didn't fix what we had inside in the first place. So that was a big fix for us. But so once we kind of got to a point where we were able to increase time to fill and then running with the programmatic advertisement to Patrick's point, we it wasn't about more applications for us. It's about quality applications. And so we have a genetic I running with Jovio and we have some solutions in place where they're turning the ads off when we get to a certain amount of applicants. So that our hiring managers thresholds that our hiring managers can review those.

13:40Then we go back to market if we don't have enough. And so for us, it's just having enough applicants so that we can select good talent. So talk about that for a second, because we're hearing a lot about automated candidates and people who aren't real applying to jobs. Talk about the quality of candidate. What changed the screening process? How are you fighting the automated tsunami? Yeah, that's a great question. So with Jovio, they've been able to, number one, add in an easy apply for us, which was critical. We were receiving a lot of drop off. And I don't know how many of you guys in the audience have taken your apply process to your C-suite and said, look at what we're making our applicants go through.

14:17They're jumping through hoops. Make them apply. Why are we paying to get these jobs to be seen and then requiring the candidate to jump their hoops? So Jovio switched on their mojo easy apply. We started to see the floodgates open. And I will say we probably don't see as much as the deep fake candidates in the senior living industry because who wants to fake wiping a senior's butt? Like who wants to apply to wipe a senior's butt? So we're probably a little bit protected in that area. But one of the screening, what a screening project. You know,

14:53again, there's unsexy stuff to this. The TA and the tech, super sexy. Some of it's not so sexy. And that's one of those things. But we've been able to reduce duplication applicants, which has been good. And we're now in that messy middle. We're starting to propose out the transformation that Patrick's been to so that we can start to protect on that investment. Of all this money that we're paying to be seen on the job boards, well, let's make sure that we actually capture them, treat them as leads, keep them in the pipeline, warm them, nurture them with that agentic AI technology. So the chat bot, the screening questions and those sorts of things.

15:27Joel Cheesman: Well, Kayleen just up that one. Patrick, what did you do? Do you wet passes? I do not. I'm luckily in the operations side. So for us, we actually we don't get too many of fake applicants because we can match to MPI numbers since we're mostly dealing with providers on our level. So it's very easy for us to kind of find it. I do know that there's a couple of solutions out here that are actually working on that to make sure that you aren't getting in. But where we kind of we put the people back in the process for this part to really screen out anything that is maybe a poor applicant or a fake app.

16:07And our recruiters spend more time with the actual candidate because of everything that we've automated or added AI to. Like our interviews are all reported. We actually have scoring on the interviews that the hiring managers can do while they do it. We have an intent engine behind it that says when the candidate is excited or not excited about a question that kind of gives them a new way to look at. Was that a good answer? Was that not a good answer? Our recruiters also have access to all of this and help lead and really guide the process. They're actually more consultants, in my opinion, than they are recruiters at this point.

16:43They are driving the hiring managed decisions and they're also automating a process from their point. So like we don't we don't ask for interview times. We schedule. We're allowed access to everyone's schedules. We dictate that hiring is a high priority. I mean, we had at one point where we were 300 employees and we were told we're going to hire 100 the next year. And then three months later, we were told 285. So we basically doubled and we needed the process to run fast but efficient. And the way we found it was best was actually having the people who are there qualified to qualify those candidates, be the one to qualify them.

17:18Joel Cheesman: Was that easy to sell to PE, though? Because that's what you that's what you were doing. I mean, efficiency, being able to create margins. The way we sold it was every provider that we got in was another 50 to 100 thousand dollars a month they got. So I'm pretty sure they were fine with us. In 50 thousand. Did you say they use people? Yes. I heard you're out of control. I want to party with you. They're using people. Did the people, did they embrace, did your people embrace what was going on? Yes. Luckily, I say we were in one of those unicorn situations where we had a lot of new hiring managers.

17:54So it was easy to grasp them, train them to the process. The executive team bought into the process. I mean, if you can show them the dollars of the people you're bringing in, giving back to the company, executives turned to you a little bit. I would say the hardest part was recording all of the interviews because legal wanted to shut that down pretty quickly. And we actually went for an approach of, do you want to know you have a problem or do you want to find out when we have an EEO complaint? Well, and also proof, right? They just agreed to have a career site. So give them some slack. Don't put too much on them.

18:28Joel Cheesman: But I mean, that is proof, though, because you will have individuals who didn't get the job who actually claim that something happened. And now you have proof of what actually happened. So if legal says, well, we don't want to do this because somebody says something stupid, it's like, yeah, but this also is a CYA opportunity for all of us. Yeah. And we've used it to actually, you know, help grow our managers. We our team reviews those randomly and helps give them guidance and interviewing. So like a mentoring opportunity, teaching opportunity. have. Kayleen, you mentioned showing the higher-ups, the process, and what it's like.

19:05I'm curious because we hear a lot about folks that are implementing AI, the data that they're getting is like they've never had before. They're able to have conversations with the C-suite that they've never had before, the seat at the table, if you will. Are you having those conversations? How are your talks different before sort of a going AI versus what it is now? Do you have that seat at the table? Yeah, I think in senior living, there's a lot of priority on the sales side. So moving residents in and bringing residents into the building. And so I think really being able to talk operationally to our C-suite and operational leaders from a lens that they understand, which is the sales side of moving a resident in, treating candidates the same way.

19:49You know, we wouldn't say to a loved one that wants to move their mom into our community and we say to them, hey, can you move mom in today? And they say no. And we're going to say, well, we'll lose your number. Like we're not going to talk to you, whatever. It's about building and nurturing those relationships. So I started talking to our operations leaders about candidates being leads and our website being our digital front door. And we have these people knocking at our digital front door and we have no way to know where they go or to capture them after they've knocked and expressed interest in us.

20:19So I think that's translated really well. And then again, to your point on the data and the numbers, we've been able to show, you know, just that reduction in CPA right now, Jobio's leading at least eight to$10 under CPA in general for all of our roles than Indeed is. And so just being able to kind of share that with them, the cost savings that that can bring since we're making that investment and then how do we protect that investment and ensure that we capture those folks with a CRM and continue to nurture and engage them until they're ready to come on more with us because just because a candidate is not ready to be a caregiver today, that doesn't mean that they're not going to be one ever.

20:55And so that gives them an opportunity to learn more about our brand over time. I love how you think about that as a marketing tool and all these people that apply, they may or may not have aging parents. They will someday. So having that brand experience, I think is important. What has that meant to your brand with having a much easier process and the chatbot? And what are you seeing in terms of feedback from candidates? You know, I think we're seeing, obviously, what you hopefully expect to see. So we are seeing more positivity from the candidate's perspective. One, because what we're also doing is giving them a lot of upfront information that used to be on the recruitment team.

21:30But then what we do is we validate that information throughout the process. So they still hear a lot of the same talk as they go through with the recruitment team, the hiring manager team, so that they actually know, OK, this place is what it's talking about. And we also highlight our recruitment team does a good job of highlighting the bad. Like not everything is great. We are a solely focused on one issue. So you tend to be higher volume of patients instead of lower volume of patients. But you're only doing one thing. So we've really tried to build into the brand the truth and have the career site back that up, have the recruitment team back that up and have the hiring manager team back that up.

22:08But you're not you're not actually having the people say the same thing you're putting out there from a marketing standpoint. Then your marketing is kind of crap. Yeah.

22:16Joel Cheesman: Well, you guys are talking a lot about business metrics, which is amazing because in talent acquisition, we have our own metrics that the C-suite really don't, I just don't care about. Right. Cause it doesn't, it doesn't mean anything to them, but you're talking more on the business side of the house. How long has it taken you to get there? Has it been a few years? Has it always been that way? Or was this just something that you recently started doing and started seeing success out of? I mean, for me, I think, you know, I've been in senior living long enough and have actually worked my way, you know, from a caregiver to social service director to business office and all the different roles.

22:54So I think really understanding the business is one of the most key things that you need to know to be able to talk to your C-suite and your leaders and being able to share things. You're not going to pull 30 of your metrics that you're looking at every day as a TA leader and then try to take that to the C-suite and explain everything and break it down to them. You really need to just choose two, three, four things that are going to be important that are going to add value. So, you know, when we can talk about reducing agency, when we can talk about time to fill, which is going to be, you know, spilling our vacancies quicker.

23:25So those are the things that I think that are, you know, really going to seek more to the C-suite. And then I would say, like, as far as, you know, wanting to implement some sort of technology or AI tool, our business is a little bit larger than yours. So what we really ran into, it's like every single vertical, every single business partner that we work with, they also have their own AI tools that we want to that they want to roll out. So it's about prioritization. It's about waiting your turn. And so my best advice on that is to know your numbers, start looking at all the different vendors and technology that you could want, and then ensure that you have know what your major business need is so that when your time is up, you can raise your hand and say, hey, I've been vetting at this.

24:08I've been looking at this. I know the numbers. I've already talked with IT and I told them it's not a heavy lift and IT is good with it. So, you know, so when the time is ready, you can raise your hand and you can be able to speak intelligently to influence the right the right people. I have a deck for like every different C-suite member, basically, to be able to explain that point to where it's like, what's in it for me? This is going on the deck.

24:31Joel Cheesman: Not going on the deck. Not trying to explain the same thing to the different people. Right. Doesn't make you able to talk, speak their speak. Yeah, exactly. I cut that flex there, Kayleen. I caught that. We're bigger than you, Patrick. It's OK, Patrick. Patrick, it's OK. Size doesn't matter.

24:51Curious about no one's mentioned ghosting, but now that we hear stories in health care, people like to ghost. They don't show up for interviews. They don't show up for the job or they leave her like, What is implementing the tech, if at all, helped with ghosting and getting people to the scheduled interviews and getting them onboarded? Because we're hearing that it is making an impact. So I would actually say from our perspective, again, some of it comes to them having more information up front as candidates. They feel like they know more. They're going to want to show up, hopefully. I will say for us, actually, we have really instituted that in the process that the recruiters run and not the tech.

25:29So like when we are on the phone with them and we have a good candidate, we schedule them right then and there for their next step. So they know that one, we're serious right away. We're not going to play the game where we'll call you back two days later. This isn't dating. This is hiring. So we get them right in there and they show up most of the time. I will say there is some that don't show up. We're always going to have some ghosting. But I think if you can eliminate the parts in the process where they, you know, have to feel like they're not as valued as they are, then you can get them to go through with the process.

26:07Also, they know the process. They know what the time constraints are. They know where we go through all of that with them. And it's also backed up on our website if they need to look at that as well.

26:17Joel Cheesman: So is this a human in the loop engagement kind of thing where the front end is more automated, more mechanical. But then when you get in, then it's human in the loop and we're going to give you that white glove service. Yep. And then we also use the automation of the recruiters have a bunch of automated tools. So follow up messages, you know, the things that are that we should be doing anyways, but multiple messages. We figure out how they like to communicate with us on that call. And that's what we prioritize with them. And we automate that for the recruitment team so they don't have to, you know, come up with a new.

26:51So texting and sending emails. Texting and sending emails. I mean, heck, WhatsApp. We don't care. Whatever they want. Would you second that, Kaylee? Yeah. And same thing. Like, who doesn't live by their phone nowadays? Like, I don't know where I'm supposed to be unless my phone's reminding you where I'm supposed to be. So having that agentic AI to be able to come into the mix and send those automated reminders for you is really going to help eliminate the drop off of the candidates. I know shows for any of those. So we have a few minutes for questions. The mics are up here. So if you have a question, just be loud and I'll repeat it on stage.

27:23Does anyone have a question for Taylene or Patrick? Yes, ma 'am.

27:26Joel Cheesman: You mentioned reducing the athletes in your process. I'm just wondering how that became part of the health. And also, I'm just curious, but ATS is a focus. Okay. That's a loaded question. The ATS part. So we are on a legacy ATS that is very antiquated and uses XML file feeds and does not have an API and will not utilize an API connection after two years of me begging and pleading. So so what I'll say about that is there are partners out there that will come in and work with you and the messiness of all the chaos, which is Jovio and help send files back and forth and meet with me months a week so that we can meet these goals.

28:14And then the deduplication part, we do get a lot of duplicate applicants right now. Jovio is able to show us through their reporting. They have one source of truth where we can see what those duplicate applicants are and where they're applying to. And so in the process, as we're in this messy middle, one of the reasons why we want to move to Jovio CRM is so that we can take those duplicate applicants and then determine if it's not a fit for them at this location. Is it potentially a fit at another location? We'll be able to bring all the information in for our HRIS. That's going to show us with someone hired before.

28:47If they were, was it a good fit? Why are they terminated for cause? Were they about for interview? All of those things so that we can continue to work the candidates and the leads that make sense instead of, you know, necessarily spending our time on going to bat to find new talent. Because what we found as we dug into our ATS more is we have about 30 percent of our applicants that are reapplies that are those duplicate applicants because we're so saturated. And so many of our markets like Columbia market, St. Louis market, we're competing against ourselves in those markets. And so if it's not a good fit for an LLC in one area of St.

29:23Louis, that that person might be a good fit for another LLC in another area of St. Louis.

29:27Joel Cheesman: Patrick, what ATS are you in? Shout out about the job, right? Job, right. Yep. Are you also going through the deduplication process? Not as much because there aren't many nurse practitioners out there. So we don't have that issue. We have the moral issue. We need to find people. I would say that we have utilized some agent AI tools over our CRM because we have telemetry and it's all manipulated to start to re-engage markets so that we're constantly keeping in contact with them. So what's next? What's next? What do you want to do next? What have you been brewing at? You're drooling. You're excited.

30:04Joel Cheesman: You're already building the narrative to take to your C-suite. What is it? Yeah, so on my Christmas wish list, that means that moving into next year, I'm hoping that my recruiters will be able to free up a lot more time in some of these manual processes because we've rolled out a CRM. We've rolled out an overlay to our career page that can have a chatbot that can start to screen some people, answer those knockout questions, qualify talent before they come to us. Just making it easier for us at the top of the funnel to decide from a human decision, make use our discernment to say, is this person going to be able to care well enough for my mom?

30:40And that's the main thing I'm concerned about. Wishlist. Yeah, wishlist. We are we are engaging a few sourcing platforms so we can automate some of our sourcing and have our recruiters drive some more sourcing because we don't have a sourcing team. I would say the other rich list is, and we're working internally with this one, is we're starting to build some pretty cool dashboards with a Genic AI that gives more real-time data. And the weird thing is I'm not in HR. I'm actually in operations. So it all is feeding into an operational database so they can show the sales team. We can predict when they need to bring in new buildings.

31:17So just based on where we have. Wait a minute.

31:20Joel Cheesman: It's connected to the sales database. Yeah. Yeah, we have an operational platform. Wait a minute, private equity and profits? Yeah. That's weird. Does that ever happen? That's weird. Chad? Yes. That's another one in the can. Let's hear it for Patrick and Kayleen, everybody. You want to learn more about Jovio? Head up to jovio.com. Thank you very much. We are the Chad Cheese Podcast. Enjoy the rest of your day, everybody. There's a QR code, Cheeseman. Come on. That's high tech. I love it. Thank you for listening to, what's it called? A podcast. The Chad. The Cheese. Brilliant. They talk about recruiting.

31:57Joel Cheesman: They talk about technology. But most of all, they talk about nothing. Just a lot of shoutouts of people you don't even know. And yet, you're listening. It's incredible. And not one word about cheese. Not one. Cheddar. Blue. Nacho. Pepper Jack. Swiss. There's so many cheeses and not one word. So weird. Anywho, be sure to subscribe today on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play Or wherever you listen to your podcasts That way you won't miss an episode And while you're at it, visit www.chadcheese.com Just don't expect to find any recipes for grilled cheese It's so weird We out!