Gen Z Got Job Problems: AI Didn’t Kill the Resume. It Exposed It

0:00Joel Cheesman: Hide your kids, lock the doors, you're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, rash opinion, and loads of snark. Buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.

0:23Oh, yeah, it's the podcast your prime minister warns you about. Also known as the Chad and Cheese podcast. Hey, boys and girls, I'm your co-host, Joel Cheeseman. Joined, as always, Chad Soash is riding shotgun. As we welcome Holly Hobbs to the show. She's the co-founder of Your Future and Gen Z expert. Holly, welcome to HR's Most Dangerous Podcast. Thank you so much for having me. buzzing to be here we're excited to have you so was your mom a holly hobby reader is that how holly no i don't even know what that is to be fair no okay that's our first gen x reference that uh the gen z doesn't doesn't know yes kids book from the 60s that was very popular okay we're we're already falling flat on our face are you winning the poo heard that what would be your generations uh spongebob i don't he didn't do books who was the no they don't read books anymore you kidding me yeah i know yeah literally for us it's like youtube oh yeah yeah fortnight so you guys you were brought up on fortnight see oh yeah get us on fortnight we're happy brought up on fortnight yes master chief and fortnight holly for those of our listeners who aren't acquainted with you.

1:40Tell us a little bit about you, your life. We'll get to the business stuff, but what makes Holly tick? What makes me tick? A bit of drum and bass. Oh, there we go. That's the kind of music that I like. I am originally from... I'm sorry, talking about drum and bass? Drum and bass. Drum and bass. Okay. Yeah, that type of music. Kick bass, baby. Okay, some wolfers in the bed. Got it. All right. That would be on my Twitter bio if I had X, but I'm a Gen Z, but more on TikTok.

2:07Joel Cheesman: There you go. I am 23 years old from Stains Upon Thames, which we were just talking about this before. But if people don't know where that is, that is where Ali G originates from or Fort Park, which you might know, or right next to Heathrow. And I'm now living in Manchester. Ali G bringing the generations together. Who knew? Who knew? He's got a new movie coming out. I assume you knew that. Oh, no, I didn't actually. He's got a new flip coming out. Yeah. I didn't know that. I can't believe people still don't know who Sasha is, that he can still get away with this shit. but yeah he can't he can he's just that good just know it's ali g yeah um and i'm now living in manchester for business um which yeah we'll get into not not a fan of the footballers we've already talked about that manchester england for our american listeners not yeah sorry new hampshire and there's a sorry in the u.s as well i realized that so it's sorry in the uk pretty much if it's in the uk it's probably in america somewhere oh yeah and several of them yeah several there's a new there's an old in front of it there's uh yeah all kinds of variations when i type in tiktok i'm like our best restaurant in surrey it always comes up with the us i'm like oh my god i didn't know they have one in the us i'm like no please it's in the uk so holly i i want to i want to interject here i i first learned about you when you interviewed then prime minister kirstarma i'd like to know the story behind how you got that interview and what you thought of his take on the world of work and young people.

3:36Oh, yeah. Interesting. Okay. Well, I got the interview because basically I have a TikTok following of about 50 ,000 young people all looking to get their first job. So that's apprenticeships. That's just the entry level job, et cetera. And one day got approached by number 10 because they're really trying to, as you can probably tell, even now we've got the new prime minister, Andy Burnham, they're really trying to use creators and social media to get their message out there so i got approached and ended up interviewing kia starmer about four or five times i think crazy yeah all about like the new advances that were happening in like the career space and education and things like that and just trying to get that message out there to young people rather than like a government press statement or whatever because it just doesn't resonate in terms of my experience and what i thought about him i think like it's really hard to make a judgment because like you I literally saw him for like a couple of minutes and it's a predetermined question and you he's obviously planned his answers but from what I saw about him like he was a really nice guy he was quite personable in terms of before the interview he'd like he'd done his research about you his team had done the research his team had done the research yeah don't feel bad yeah that's true but you know he and then and then because i'd seen him so many times he did actually remember me he at an event he was walking past me and he was like oh hey and i was like oh that's impressive then so you gotta give him his

5:08Joel Cheesman: juice i guess give him his juice so quick question how long do you think it's going to take for count bin face to become the pm in england count who count bin face who is this you don't know I knew that was coming. You don't know Cal Binface? No. Clackton by the sea. That's on the news, Chad. Does he have a TikTok channel? He was running against Nigel Farage for the Clackton by the sea seat, right? And so this is literally a dude that has a garbage can head. And he literally was running again and did well. Did well. I can't believe it. He was all over, at least my TikToks. He was all over my TikToks, all over my Instagrams.

5:47Joel Cheesman: Oh, yeah. Holly, come on. Her algo is much different than yours, I'm sure, Chad. That's true. Odd robotic politicians are in your field, probably not in hers. Probably not in hers. No, probably not. No, I'm going to have to look that up afterwards. Let's get into you and the business side and how you made it to where you are right now. And it's really kind of funny because you're only 23. And I know that's old for you. But for us, I mean, 23, we've been in this industry longer than you've been alive. I know. And that really smacks me square in the face. You're actually as young as my youngest.

6:20Oh, wow.

6:20Joel Cheesman: But at the end of the day, I mean, it's awesome. How did you get to where you are? What was the problem that you saw? And how did you go about fixing it? Just tell us a little bit about that journey before we dig in even deeper. Yeah. Okay. So not that long ago, as you can tell by my age, I was searching for my first job. And I was like, I don't want to go uni. I wanted to get an apprenticeship. Long story short, apprenticeships are quite looked down. Well, they were looked down on in the UK. It was like when you're at college, you either go to university or you do an apprenticeship. Oh, God, type of thing.

6:52But actually, despite that, the apprenticeships were so competitive. So before I got into Microsoft on their degree apprenticeship program, I faced like over 30 rejections. And I got into that and basically started to document my journey and share it on TikTok. And I used to, I gained traction quite quickly and built a community. And I used to get so many comments of young people saying, I'm the exact same. I can't get my first job. I'm really, really struggling. So I was like, that was when I started my first business. And I said to myself, I've been through all these rejections and learned so much so that I don't want someone else to have to go through that as well.

7:28And what I'd learned was about how to basically get through a process. So instead of learning more about being myself and trying to get that across to recruiters, it was about how do I put the right keywords on my be how do i like the right thing yeah all the mechanics because they don't teach you that at school and if you don't have like parents or carers around you to that have been through these processes to tell you if you want to get past an ats you've got to do this then how the hell are you supposed to know that so what happened was i started a business basically selling ebooks to young people all about like how to actually secure an apprenticeship and get through this process quickly realized that like one that's not a scalable business model and two i don't want to charge young people for that information that they should not have to pay for yeah kudos and basically then i basically pivoted my business model and started working with employers to help them create video content about what jobs actually mean for young people because that was like another part of the thing that i struggled with at school it was like i read a job description But in my head, visually, I couldn't see what does that look like?

8:37I just don't understand it in a job description because I'd never experienced that before. So I started doing that. And then how I got to where I am now is because at the end of the day, I thought, well, I can keep trying to give tips to young people about how they can sort of gamify a process and get through a process. or on the other side I could actually go out there and try and make a bit of a difference in the market and build something that changes that process entirely for entry level recruitment so that young people don't have to go in knowing how to get through an ATS or whatever and rather they can literally just show who they are and be themselves and that's how I've joined into your future.

9:15Holly when you say apprenticeships I just want to be sure as an American that's not a term that we generally use. Is that, would you say that's an entry-level job more of in the sort of hands-on blue collar work arena or am I misreading what apprenticeship is? Like applying for an apprenticeship. They are entry-level jobs, yeah, but they can be in blue collar roles and white collar roles. So - But you just don't need a degree, is that? Yeah, so you can be a school or college leaver. So 16 to 18 and plus, like you can do it when you're literally in your mid-career or whatever, to do an apprenticeship.

9:46And basically what happens is there's like loads of different levels to it from like GCSE level to masters and everything in between. You do the job and then you study alongside and you get the qualification.

9:57Joel Cheesman: So quick question around that real quick, Joel, what we've seen in the US, and I would assume that it's pretty much that sounds like the same in the UK, is that we've just been told for decades, you got to go to college. You can't do that apprenticeship stuff. Now today, we know that's not the truth because plumbers and electricians and carpenters, they get paid a shit ton of cash, You know, and that's not a bad thing. And we need them right there. They're in great need. Would you say, especially from a Microsoft standpoint, there's still blue collar opportunities out there. Would you say that that is a really good track for, you know, Gen Z to really look at and go after?

10:33Joel Cheesman: Because even though society has said, no, no, no, go to college, go to university for you and your experience. Is that something that you would say that you would definitely advise for more Gen Z? Yeah, 100%. And I think really in the UK over the last couple of years, because of platforms like TikTok and apprentices posting about their journeys, actually the apprenticeship option at school has become much more respected. And people now do consider it alongside university a lot more. It's definitely not perfect and where it should be. But really what we're seeing now is that people are either thinking university or apprenticeship and then they're forgetting about the entry level role.

11:14And it's like, actually, there is just an entry level role, like a frontline role. Maybe it's like a warehouse operative or production assistant that is still just as good to start your career in. And actually, you still can have progression in those types of roles as well. But they're not thought about as like a version of success when you leave school. So I think as well as an apprenticeship is such a good path to start on. And sometimes it's looked down upon like the entry level role is that too, basically. So you mentioned helping companies sort of connect with a younger worker through video, social media.

11:46I think a lot of companies are still trying to work that out. What is what is building an employer brand mean with your generation? Talk about that. I think everyone throws around the word authentic when it comes to Gen Z, right? you've got to be authentic and you've got to show like that real side to your employer brand and i think really in 2026 and beyond for gen z like employer brand is about showing up in the spaces that they're in and rather than like relying on people to go and search for their jobs and come to them for gen z that's not how we've grown up with brands like in the consumer space like tiktok It serves us videos that we never thought about Spotify.

12:27We get music that we never even thought about YouTube. Do you know what I mean? All these apps that we've grown up with serve us and recommend us things. I think employer branding in 2026 really needs to catch up with that sort of way of doing things and that method. But also, not only that, it's about like how they actually market and making things more visual and bringing people in. I mean, it's always been like this. People buy into people. obviously it's not just a gen z thing but it becomes even more prevalent with gen z and like that word authenticity comes in there where it's like your reach as an employer and as a brand is so much greater when you actually get your people to post out there and do that and tell stories and that's what is really going to move things with you for gen z is like getting your people front and center and showing who they are and showing their journeys and their stories are you saying we can just post jobs and some stock photos.

13:25Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Damn it.

13:29Joel Cheesman: The thing that always got me was, and I've seen here as of late, at least in Silicon Valley, and even in DC, last time we were in DC, we actually saw ads, employment ads. And it was literally, if you want to work hard, if you want to, you're going to work 70 hours a week, it's going to be hard. It's going to be stressful. And I mean, you have many companies that are coming out now and they're literally being more transparent about look yeah i love that we are going to work you hard but there are people that are out there that they want that kind of culture right they want to build they want to be a part of something that's you know at ground level in some cases do you see more of that happening where they're i mean you could call definitely call that authenticity because hey look i'm being transparent i'm not going to bullshit you this is what we're looking for if this is you it's great because it actually filters out a lot of people that are like i don't want to work 70 hours a fucking week are you kidding me exactly Right.

14:21Joel Cheesman: So is that kind of like a format that you would go after is like, look, just tell people how it is for God's sakes. Or is that how the employee engagement actually happens? The stories? I think that is just such a better method to do it. Like if that's the true reality of the job, just tell people, you know. And I think sometimes we can really over glamorize things and try and like miss out those bits just because you think it'll put people off. But like you say, it's like, well, then you're just removing the people that aren't interested at all. And I think in, I don't know about the US, but in the UK specifically, some employers obviously have like diversity targets that they want to hit and things like that.

15:04And they sort of take it a bit of a different step and a step further than that in terms of who they want to attract as well. Some employers go out and they say specifically, this job advert is for attracting young females into engineering only. obviously males can still use it to apply but they can't legally do that properly but there's like a whole nother level to it where they're like now we're just focusing this specific advert on this specific demographic as well not only just like the reality of the roles it's like we're targeting a whole specific individual really now you're talking about authenticity being you know yourself but what we're hearing holly is the robots are taking over everyone's auto applying to everything.

15:46The kids are just pushing a button. The companies are just having bots interview people. Like give us your take on the state of job search right now with young people. Is the narrative correct about automation or are we missing something? Yes, it is correct. And basically AI, I don't think has killed the application. AI has basically just like completely highlighted how broken the application was in the first place right so like it's highlighted basically how useless a traditional application was because people can now use ai to completely expedite that process and like there's now easy apply options and i think the industry as a whole is now valued 600 million like the ai auto apply industry and basically as well as like gen z basically killing like things like the job board and how they apply i think employers are actually also starting to kill that sort of method because there's an expectation that like now candidates instead of them expecting that candidates should come to them they're now thinking like oh actually we need to be going out to candidates because we're getting so many applications with this AI, like influx, we're not getting the right people, we're getting really low quality applications.

17:07And we need to go out there and find the right people. So the days of posting jobs and the future of the job board itself, you think is in jeopardy? Is that what I'm hearing? Yeah, I think like, for entry level, the job board is just not useful for young people, because there's a stat that says, this is in the UK, about 69 % of young, no, 79%, sorry, of young people are leaving school or college confused on their next steps. So they're leaving school or college with no idea of what they want to do. And then they're going to a job board. And I think Indeed said themselves about 20 % of their global search is blank search.

17:48Joel Cheesman: Oh, yeah. Obviously, I don't know what that stat is for young people, but they're going to these platforms and they are not having any idea of what to search because the school system's not supporting them with what to search. And then the actual information that these job boards are getting from them as well is not helping them actually get through the process because they've got no experience to show for themselves. So like when they're applying to a job and right now in the UK, there's a bit of like, oh, the death of the Saturday job and how young people literally can't get any Saturday jobs because actually what's happening is because of redundancies and ai and like cost of living loads of adults and like people that are in their mid-career and stuff like that are getting second jobs and are going to supermarkets and things like that because they need the extra income so when people are applying for like their first jobs and they're being up they're up against like someone who's got a lot of experience on a cv it's much less risky for an employer to go and pick the person that has all that experience and the person that's got nothing to write on their cv because that being compared, that being compared on the wrong thing.

18:55Joel Cheesman: So from my standpoint, in what the whole searching, the blank search says, and it said for, it's said for years, and you can actually take a look at locations in doing those searches to see which areas are depressed, right? So there's a lot of desperation that's out there. There are individuals that are mid, mid career that literally they've got to look for that second job because they can't, they can't pay the bills with what they're currently getting. And this starts the whole problem. This starts the Gen Z versus millennials versus boomers, right? Because boomers should be out of the damn way already, but they're still coming in and they're taking like part-time jobs here and there, you know, stocking, doing stuff at Walmart just because they got time on their hands, right?

19:40Joel Cheesman: So at the end of the day, it feels like the problem of the market as a whole is being pushed down on this feud between the generations, right? What do you think about that? It's an interesting point. I think it's about how we're comparing people on the wrong thing. Like, I think that if we actually are thinking about who's the right person for the job, actually, when it's like an entry-level job, experience doesn't always mean that that person's going to be the right individual for it and is going to like progress and get to where that company wants them to be for example using things like the cv we're not comparing them on the right thing and i think actually we need to be thinking about who is that person as an individual down to like their traits that they have what for example if it was a care role how do they are they a compassionate person like do they communicate with people, these things that actually predict success in the role is what we should be comparing candidates on when it's something like an entry level job, because then people are actually, there's actually going to be a fair level playing field rather than just who's got the most experience.

20:52Joel Cheesman: Well, it sounds like apprenticeships to be quite frank. I mean, because you get somebody in there, you can see what kind of person they are because you start talking about empathy, you start talking about all these things in an interview. Anybody, even Cheeseman can fake empathy. I mean, I've seen it. I've seen it done. You can fake some of these qualities, right? But only being able to go through these internships, these apprenticeships, those types of things where you actually get the opportunity to see the individual work is the key. But the problem is companies want it right now. They don't want to wait, right?

21:23Joel Cheesman: We are not in the mindset of, okay, we can take a quarter or we can take a year or we can take, you know, even a few weeks. It's like, we need to make a decision right now. So how do you get past that? And how do you get your head from an expectation standpoint around that? You've got to be perfect on the interview right out of the gate because there's, unless you're doing an apprenticeship, it's got to be that day and that time. And you're going against millennials, Xers, boomers, et cetera. I know it's really difficult. I personally think how we actually do that is, I know I keep harping on about it, but at the start if you actually understand about how who an individual is as a person so instead of using a cv maybe you do like and we can get onto this but like you match them using behaviors and you get out like the behavioral sort of profile of an individual if you have that information at the beginning about every single person and you've assessed them and you've got like data points about them and things like that you can use ai for example to help you understand their data points and actually work out what questions would be best to ask that individual to get that right information out of them and make it a more personalized experience.

22:35I think that is the main thing.

22:38Joel Cheesman: A lot of companies are looking for that though, though. They just want the skill. I mean, that's the difference is like the behavioral components, which are incredibly important, but they're looking past all that stuff and they're like, can they do the job? You know? So, I mean, there are two sides of this. There's the hard part, the skills, can you do it and the soft skills side of the house yeah i mean specifically for like the space we're in and the companies that we work with like for the entry-level job it's not difficult and it's not rocket science to train someone up into that right so like when we're talking about aging workforces and trying to get that next sort of generation of talent into their businesses you have to take the hit with that sometimes like you know if you're going to want to bridge that aging workforce gap, you can't expect someone to come in with the right skill.

23:24And when it's entry level and you've got boomers or whoever that they can learn from, if they've got the right traits that predict success in the role, then it's not going to be difficult for them to get up to speed. Ali, you have 50 ,000, you said TikTok followers that mostly in this age range.

23:42Joel Cheesman: 50 ,001 now. I just started following. There you go. You have a unique take on, And I guess I call it the state of mind of young people. On one hand, you know, entry level jobs are, quote unquote, going away. AI is taking all some of these jobs. But then you also hear about more businesses being created by young people. And you're an example of that, frankly, or, you know, buying a franchise or do, you know, doing gig work. What's your take on just sort of the state of young people right now? Are they optimistic? Are they doom and gloom? And what's your take? Because you talk to a lot of these folks.

24:18Do you know what? It's a real mix. In regards to actually getting jobs, there's a lot going around on social media about how difficult it is. And it's quite a negative talk. I speak to employers a lot about it. And I say, like, the messaging is so mixed. Young people are seeing how it takes 100, 200 goes and applications to even get their first job. Whereas on the other side, it's like employers really want people to submit high quality, few applications that they can actually understand why they wanted to apply for that company. And so like there's also the narrative around, well, it's not a narrative, the stat around like how there's almost one million young people right now who are not in employment educational training in the UK.

25:02And so in regards to that, it's a concern. It's worrying and people are worried about how the hell they're even going to get on their career ladders. But then I'd say like there isn't another half to it, which is that optimistic side, which is like there's never been so much opportunity out there. We've got access to social media, which like our parents never had access to, which has so much information on there. and we can start a business. We don't have to rely necessarily on being employed. There is that sort of nuance there. And there is a lot more Gen Z directors at our age on Companies House compared to other generations.

25:45So you could definitely see that in the numbers as well. It's really mixed, to be honest. But I think the important thing is it's not the same for everyone because not everyone comes from the same background where they can just go and start a business when they're younger. And like they've got a laptop or they've got a network or whatever it is. So actually, we, you know, there's still a lot to be done in that. Have you found a way to divide the positive people and the negative? Like, is there a common thread between the ones that are positive and the ones that aren't? Oh, that's a good question.

26:16I've got like, I've got a visual image in my head. And I'm just thinking, how do I explain it? The negative is someone from Birmingham who's worked in a coal mine. Yeah, how do I explain it on the map? To be honest, like it's more about your background and like how you've grown up and your mindset and mentality. But I think that's been across all generations, really. Like the people that really go out there and think like, if I can't get a job, it's fine. I can do this is because maybe they've had, I don't know, some sort of uncertainty in their childhood. And they're like, they want to not have that happen to them in their adulthood.

26:52And then they have this motivation to go out. And then, yeah, it's just, it's really dependent. There's not like, oh, yeah, this is this type of person. This is this type of person.

27:00Joel Cheesman: Would you suggest that if you can for Gen Z to be able to, because as you said, many, they just don't have any work history, right? They're going to school. They're trying to get into an apprenticeship or what have you. Would you suggest they start some type of side hustle or something while they're still living at mom and dad's to start to get into the workforce, to start to create that network? What would you suggest they do to be able to get ahead? Well, my suggestion would be like, don't wait for someone to give you experience. You can't rely on someone giving you a yes to get the job. You've got to go and make that.

27:37Yeah, you've got to go and take that and make that opportunity. I think there's a saying, basically a saying around how like opportunity is everywhere, but like, I can't remember. But I just personally think that there's so much opportunity out there. And like, it's up to you to go and build your network and go and grasp that because you can't rely on other people to like give you what you want and get you to where you want to be. So I personally was starting up side hustles when I was younger. I was like trying to do as much as I can to build up my own experience that gave me transferable skills that I could then go and speak to employers about.

28:16But it's not even about that as well. It's like not everyone, maybe someone's a carer or maybe they've got different responsibilities. Not everyone's going to be able to go out and do that. So I think the things that you do at school can still be used in work environments. Like when you're in your first interview, you've never had a job before. There's loads of skills that you've built up in projects that you've done at school and things like that that you can tell employers about. A lot of employers say that they want to know about you as an individual at the entry level. Not about what you've done.

28:49Joel Cheesman: Is it talent is everywhere, opportunity is not? That's it. Boom. Oh, thank God you found it. Thanks, Google. Talent is everywhere, opportunity is not. And I always say that I disagree with that. I say opportunity is everywhere, talent is everywhere. I don't agree with opportunity is not everywhere. It is. It's just about the access to the opportunity. That is not everywhere and that is not fair. She sounds a lot like a Gen Xer, Chad. You're on your own, dude. Figure it out. You're on your own. Here's a key to the house. Figure it out. Yeah, but she's helping others. I'm going to let you out on this.

29:22You talk about the end of the job board or the traditional posting jobs and you have to go where the workers are. What's your take on the future of the resume, the CV? I think the CV, I hate to be that person that says it, but the CV is dead for entry level recruitment. I think that so many companies we speak to are just drowning in identical CVs because of AI. every cv looks the same and everyone says that ai is like made the cv die i disagree i think ai has just highlighted how bad that the cv was in the first place and like for entry-level recruitment there's it tells us nothing about a person and every cv looks the same and what's happening is the people that have access to like chat gpt subscriptions and things like that they end up getting their CV to look marginally better than someone else's because they've paid for a subscription and it's just making us not have an equal playing field.

30:21I mean, even CV Library did a research recently and they said that 69 % of recruiters say that AI generated applications make strong candidates harder to identify. And then 70 % of candidates said that AI makes it harder to stand out. And only 30%, 29 % admitted that they changed their CV or cover letter because they thought someone may screen it. So they're not getting a true representation of individuals that are applying for their job. And they're just, it takes so much more time to go through all these CVs and try and understand who's right for the role.

30:56Joel Cheesman: Well, Holly, I have to say that I love hearing your story. I love hearing 23 co-founder and chief communications officer at yourfuture.io. If you haven't checked it out, go check it out. Holly, if somebody wants to connect with you or they want to find out more about what you're doing out there, your TikTok accounts, all that other fun stuff, where would you send them? I send them to my LinkedIn, which is just Holly Hobbs. And then my TikTok is how to get a job, UK. AI hasn't killed the resume. It's highlighted how bad the resume system is. That's a hot take on the Chad Cheese Podcast, everybody.

31:32Chad, that's another one in the can. Yeah, we out.

31:35Joel Cheesman: Thank you for listening to, what's it called? The podcast. The Chad. The Cheese. Brilliant. They talk about recruiting. They talk about technology. But most of all, they talk about nothing. Just a lot of shout-outs of people you don't even know. And yet, you're listening. It's incredible. And not one word about cheese. Not one cheddar. Blue, nacho, pepper jack, Swiss. So many cheeses and not one word. So weird. Anywho, be sure to subscribe today on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. That way you won't miss an episode. And while you're at it, visit www.chadcheese.com.

32:26Joel Cheesman: Just don't expect to find any recipes for grilled cheese. So weird. We out.