Dull, dirty or dangerous (Friends)

23:06And our group is like a startup within the larger machine. And Microsoft and all these other big companies, whether it be Google or Meta, there's like, like if you think about Meta, there's like, there's WhatsApp, and then there's the open source folks. And then like, you know, it's like my team runs like the OSPO, the open source programs office, and we run the Visual Studio subscriptions business, and we run education. So I've got a portfolio of stuff that I run. Yeah. But Microsoft also has Xbox and all these other things. So it's a giant thing. I feel like I'm like Rhode Island. And there's 49 other states that I'm also learning about what they're doing in those states.

23:40That's a good way to put it. It's like a mini company in a company. Yeah, and we have our own culture and our own vibes. Is that how you feel then about the way you lead and what you lead? Is that you feel like you run like a mini business within? Yeah. Are you responsible for like your revenue targets, your product targets, your user targets? Yeah, because everyone has different goals. So I came to work at Microsoft like 16, 17 years ago to do open source. I don't know if you know the story, but long story short, I had just finished working at a company called Carillion that got bought by CheckFree and then Fiserv, and I was the chief architect of this big banking system.

24:15And I had introduced open source to a lot of banks. And banks are a very regulated environment, so open source and banks doesn't usually match. And then I ended up meeting Scott Guthrie at FooCamp, Friends of O 'Reilly. Tim O 'Reilly used to hang out and have these folks visit. And I was down there in their backyard where they had set up some tents. And I meet Scott Guthrie. And he's like, yeah, you know, we're looking at Ruby on Rails and thinking about what the.NET version of that is. And it's like 2003 or 2004. And I was like, you know, we should make.NET on nails. And I thought that would be cool.

24:49They didn't like that name. And we ended up making ASP.NET MVC. And we're like, we should be open source. And I was doing open source. And he seemed really cool. and I said I want to work remotely from Portland and he's like sure, no problem. So I've been remote the entire time. My entire team is remote, spread all over the place and fast forward all these years later with folks like Scott Hunter and David Fowler and all these other leaders in the.NET space. C Sharp and.NET are open source and run everywhere and we went from a place where the lawyers would always say no by default and now they say yes and, like good improv.

25:25I was going to say what's the and? Well, yes and. You know about the yes and theory? In improv, yes. So that's the whole point. Part of the lawyers, yes and do. We can do this and we could also open source that. And have you thought about this license? And they're partners. Rather than being haters, they are like, yeah, let's do some cool stuff. Then we open source DOS, if you remember, a year and a half ago. Why? Why not? And WSL just yesterday, right? Yeah, and WSL just yesterday. And pull requests are already coming in. Why? Why not? Because it's awesome. GitHub Copilot or some sort of aspect of it.

25:54Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That one's cool. That's a huge one, right? So the Visual Studio Codes is open source, but the copilot extension wasn't. Now it is. So you've got a whole open source AI editor thing going there. Do you know why it wasn't in the first place and why it is now? Do you know that? I don't know about the business stuff. That's a couple of layers above me. But I do know that if you're a business that's built on open source, but then you have, they call it open core, where you create something and then you have plugins. Like Redis did this, where you have the base thing that everyone can use, then you provide it as a service, and then you have some special herbs and spices that are custom, and then you pay for those plugins.

26:35So, for example, if you want to do the C Sharp dev kit and do sophisticated debugging on Visual Studio Code, you would then sign in with your Visual Studio subscription. But then for the longest time, GitHub Copilot's extension was not open source, which means we couldn't build on top of it. So if I had a cooler AI thing and I wanted to use their APIs, I couldn't. So usually they hold them back and they kind of like, it's like putting your finger on the chess piece before you make the move. You're looking around the table and you're like, okay, I think this is cool. I'm going to make that move.

27:03Right. And they chose to make the move to make it a fully open source AI editor. And then hopefully people will build on top of that with other stuff, other herbs and spices of their own. I think that's really cool. I think, I wonder if it's a reaction to the cursors and the windsurfs and everybody who's taken VS Code forked it and built their own kind of Copilot challenges. That's what happens when you do R &D for the entire internet. Yeah. And then they get huge user bases, and then it's like, well, now GitHub Copilot is also open source. So it's kind of taken their custom thing and said, well, it's kind of taken the open source foundation and raised it up a level.

27:41Yeah. Well, I actually think about it in terms of like a rising tide lifts all boats. Theoretically, that extension can now be used and is open source and people can explore it and make stuff better. So it's kind of a coopetition, a thumb war of kinds. Well, okay, well, you're going to do that. Well, I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that. I'm going to make it free. I'm going to do that. I'm going to make it open source. Theoretically, the whole point of this kind of free market capitalism is that everything gets better for everyone. Whether or not that happens or not is some macroeconomics person's job to figure out.

28:13But from my perspective, if something becomes open source, it's a good thing. I came here to open source everything. I open sourced 3D Movie Maker. I used to play 3D Movie Maker back then. And they were like, why? They literally asked me what the business reason was for open sourcing 3D Movie Maker. And me and Jeff Wilcox wrote, it's delightful. I love that. And they were like, okay, let's do it. You're going to do the work? Yeah, we'll do the work. What's the business value in open sourcing DOS? It's delightful. Software preservation. uh yeah goodwill uh preservation why not why not because people don't do stuff on the internet just because it's awesome just do it because it's awesome well friends i'm here with a brand new friend of mine cal galbraith co-founder and ceo of depot.dev your bills don't have to be slow you know that right build faster waste less time accelerate docker image builds get up action builds and so much more.

29:17So Kyle, we're in the hallway at our favorite tech conference and we're talking. How do you describe Depot to me? Depot is a build acceleration platform. The reason we went and built it is because we got so fed up and annoyed with slow builds for Docker image builds, GitHub action runners. And so we're relentlessly focused on accelerating builds. Today, we can make a container image build up to 40 times faster. We can make a GitHub action runner up to 10 times faster. We just rolled out Depot cache. We essentially bring all of the cache architecture that backs both GitHub Actions and our container image build product.

29:51And we open it up to other build tools like Bazel, Turbo Repo, SC Cache, Radel, things like that. So now we're starting to accelerate more generic types of builds and make those three to five times faster as well. And so in simple terms, the way you can think about Depot is it's a build acceleration platform to save you hundreds of hours of build time per week. no matter whether that's build time that happens locally, that's build time that happens in a CI environment. We fundamentally believe that the future we want to build is a future where builds are effectively near instant, no matter what the build is.

30:27We want to get there by effectively rethinking what a build is and turn this paradigm on its head and say, hey, a build can actually be fast and consistently fast all the time if we build out the compute and the services around that build to actually make it fast and prioritize performance as a top-level entity rather than an afterthought. Yes. Okay, friends. Save your time, get faster builds with Depot, Docker builds, faster GitHub action runners, and distributed remote caching for Bazel, Go, Gradle, Turbo Repo, and more. Depot is on a mission to give you back your dev time and help you get faster build times with a one-line code change.

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31:38You're on the inside, so you probably can't answer this question. But how much do you like Windows? Well, see, this is the thing, man. Here's the deal. I would put it like this. How much do you like JavaScript? Listen, I want to tell you before we even answer this. No, I'm going to answer it. This is not an attack at all. No, don't attack. But please, understand my perspective. I have been a non-Windows user for 20 years. Recently went back to Windows and loved it. Except. Oh, yeah? Positive things. What did you not like? I think that there's some semi-user hostile things where you just inject it with certain things.

32:15Oh, this is good. No, dude, let's fight. This is great. I love this. Okay, first, let's talk about this. First, you said how much do you love Windows? Yes. You said you probably won't be able to answer this. Okay, can you answer it? Okay, let's answer it then. All right. Do you like JavaScript? I mean, sure. Do you like English? Sure. You're cool with it? I'm cool with English. Do you feel that English and JavaScript are really doing the jobs that they need to be doing? Do you feel that those are the languages that we deserve? I don't know. Are there any better languages? They're better at poetry or love or haikus.

32:46Are there other cooler languages? Sure. Like Finnish. Finnish is a pretty cool language. Why didn't that one win? I don't know. Right. So, like, English is just this language. It's the one that we have, right? Right. It's the one that's language of the internet. It's malleable. That's one reason. But it also steals from ideas from here and ideas from here, right? Which is kind of malleability. Like, you know, foyer and burrito. Like, these are all words from borrowed words. JavaScript, like someone makes it in a way. Bidet, another good one. Fillet. I heard someone, yeah, my wife calls it. Fillet?

33:15She says it's a fillet. Oh, okay. Everyone pronounces it differently. These are all different things. Target? Yeah. Jacqueline Pinay. There you go. When you go to JCPenney, but it's fancy. Is that right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jacqueline Pinay. Yeah, it's true. Never heard that one. Yeah, that's because we're very fancy. I like that. So the point I'm making is that languages grow, operating systems grow. They beg, borrow, and they steal from Xerox PARC or from here or from there and all these different kinds of places. But people will go and say, like, you know, I don't like Windows. Like they have some kind of generational pain because maybe they tried Windows years ago.

33:48They don't like it. I like Windows, but I also don't like the advertisements or I don't want, like, Candy Crush in my start menu and all kind of stuff like that. So I have scripts to strip all that out. So I'm always... Which one did you use them? What's that? Titus, the Titus one? I use one that Clint Rutgers wrote that basically uses... I use Winget. So Winget is like apt-get or homebrew. So you can say Winget configure, and then you can set all of your settings in Windows. So it's kind of like dot files for Windows. Yeah. Do you have a YouTube on this yet? I could do one probably. Please do.

34:19I'll make you one. I'll watch it. So this is a copilot PC, right? Which is kind of like you got, we're looking at two Macs right here. And it's got everything that I need. It turns on and off. I can put it in my bag without it getting hot. Like all that kind of stuff that Windows laptops have, had a bad history with. I think people have this kind of remembrance of Windows 10 years ago. And it's like, Windows killed my pappy. You know what I mean? During the browser wars. Are you right? And they're just kind of like, this is ongoing generational pain. But like, yeah, I don't want a little advertising in my start menu.

34:55I want my start menu to be clean. But it is now. But I do have to do a little bit of work. So I'm always pushing for that kind of stuff. But then if you look at your Macs, I would challenge you on like Finder hotkeys. Or like take a mouse away from a Mac user and watch them struggle. Because they're going to immediately go into the command line and do everything from there. Because you all don't have hotkeys. But that's not really an operating system anymore. It's like from a UI delight perspective. Being able to go and do hotkeys like that and move around like this. That just doesn't exist on a Mac.

35:29I'm jumping around inside of my Windows machine for those of you who can't see this. I would challenge someone to like open the finder, copy a file to another folder or to a shared folder without using the mouse. So like those kind of things. Copying to somewhere else could be hard. I use Raycast. So it adds some things to Windows. But you had to add it. Yeah. And that's true too. Exactly. And I use the new command palette, which is like Raycast. I think the command palette is pretty awesome. There's a lot of things you're doing. I can't. I've never done before this zoom in thing. So you're watching me do a lot of cool stuff.

35:57It's pretty cool. Drawing on it and making faces. And did you just say I love you? Oh, gosh. Scott Hansel loves Adam Stachowiak. Yes. And then there's like, you know, click to do type stuff. So right now I just held down the Windows key and the whole screen just turned color and I can go and summarize or create a bullet list from information that's on the screen. This is dope, man. There's a lot of cool stuff that's going on. I've seen a lot. But people don't want to use it because they're like, well, I hated Windows 8. The reason why I asked that question was not because I'm a hater. No, I don't think I'm a hater.

36:31And it's because I'm actually a recent convert where I say, why not both? Why not have a Mac in some of my more creative environments? Yeah, I got my iPhone. And I love building PCs, you know, so I love to build that kind of stuff. And I'm like, my AI playground is a Windows machine. Oh, for real? Running Olama, yeah. Oh, really? Have you tried LM Studio? Not yet. Oh, man, so good. So I'm trying to explore. And Windows took me there because I didn't want to run Linux proper in that case. I really wanted to play with Windows and WSL. That's where we're going with this, is that WSL is this ability to bring these worlds together, which I just thought was super, super cool.

37:11What WSL has done for Windows, in my opinion, for those who want to be Linux junkies as well as typical everyday PC user. Yeah. So, for example, right now, again, doing a little bit of color commentary for those who are on the audio aspect of this here. I just am at the command line and I type in Z and I'm using some tools here like oh my posh and you can see that I've got a very colorful command prompt. That's my blood sugar. I'm type 1 diabetic so that's actual real time readout of my blood sugar. That's the fact that I'm on a dev drive so that's a refs or an refs reliable file system. I've moved from the c drive to the d drive.

37:51That is a different file system that's faster. I've got a bunch of modifications that I've made to make Windows delightful. You can see now I'm going to jump into a folder and see my Git repository mentioned right there. I've got icons and color in my directory. We just released an editor. If you're familiar with things like TurboVision, we've got an editor that's like nano but prettier so you don't get stuck in Vim and have to reboot your computer because you don't know how to exit. And then being able to go like this, I'm just going to pull the command prompt down and hit hold down alt while I push Ubuntu.

38:29And then on the right-hand side here, I'm popping Ubuntu up next to this and then running something like HTOP. And then from here, I can go and type the GIMP if I have the GIMP installed. And then that's going to jump out. And now I'm running a Linux app just directly. And I'm on ARM this entire time. So for folks who can't see... Why is that a big deal, being on ARM? Because I didn't notice that I was on ARM. The great thing when Apple moved to the M class chips is that nobody noticed. There was a moment there where it was like Apple Silicon or Intel, like which one do I want to pick? And now we're getting to the point where everything just works.

39:03So you can't really tell what's an x64 executable and what's not. Because they're so fast. Because it's so fast. And I can go and hit Docker and then load up Docker on this particular machine and spin up Kubernetes and then do all this kind of work. Bring up OLAMA. And then I've got the NPU. So right now I'm opening up the task manager and dropping in here. Let me go ahead and turn this off. This was always on top. So now I'm inside of the task manager, and I'm showing the gentleman that we have a CPU, a GPU, and an NPU. So if you look in here, I'm zooming in. I've got my 32 gigs of RAM, my CPU.

39:39This right here is where AI can happen. So I can run small language models on the neural processing unit, which means I could do airplane mode work. I'm on an airplane, and I'm doing AI work. That's cool. All those things are going to get better. Now, it's not perfect, but it's getting there. It's getting really cool. Why is that running on the NPU? Ah, so if you think about the processing units, the PUs. Right, you've got the CPU, which is the central processing unit. So, central processing unit. That's your general purpose running stuff. Operating system, garbage collection, RAMs, you know, all that stuff.

40:14It's your orchestrator. Yeah. Then you've got your GPU, which is really good at triangle math. So, you want to run a game, your GPU is going to do that. or if you're going to run Ollama or something like that, depending on whether or not you want to target that. But your GPUs tend to be hot, and they tend to use a lot of power. We all know that, like, you drop an NVIDIA into a machine, you're going to have another power supply, 750 watts, right? I think I've got a really nice NVIDIA at home. I've got a 4080 Super, and it also heats the downstairs, which is nice. I think I have a Corsair 1500, I think.

40:49I over-provisioned. You over-provisioned. I was afraid. So you know. I did not want to like, you know, this GPU and this CPU to be tapped. But here's the thing. The human brain uses 20 watts of power. Why am I burning 1 ,000 on a GPU? Now, an NPU is a coprocessor, a neural processing unit that's good at a certain kind of math. Certain kind of tensor-based matrix math. It's a super efficient thing. So you don't run your video games on the CPU. You run it on a custom processor. but you would be sad if you had some, let's just say like a Snapchat filter. You know that feature that moves your eyes to make it look like you're looking at the person on Teams or on whatever?

41:30It's kind of creepy. It is kind of creepy, but your iPhone's been doing it. It's kind of fun though. The fun part is that your iPhone's been doing it for years and no one ever thought it was creepy. Oh really? But when Windows does it, people are like, hey, what's going on, man? When's your iPhone doing it? Your iPhone started doing it around iPhone 11 when you're on FaceTime. They move your eyeballs. It's called gaze correction. I've never used FaceTime. Well, there you go. Then now you know, right? I don't think I have it, just realized. The point is, let's say that gaze correction was a thing.

41:55That's hilarious. And then you look at your CPU and you see 20%. You're like, 20 %? I don't want to give up 20 % of my CPU for this. You want to offload that to something that's going to use less power, less heat, and it's going to do it really efficiently. And that's what an NPU does. Now, I was teasing you guys at the beginning, I don't know if we have that B-roll, about how old we are. And I think I got 10 years on you. How old are you, sir? 46. Okay, so we're a little bit more contemporaries. So I got six years on you. Do you remember the 486? You were born in 73. 74, January 74. Okay. Do you remember the 486DX?

42:30No. Okay. So the 486DX and the 486SX differed in a really interesting way. The DX had a coprocessor, meaning it could do floating point, and the SX didn't. Okay. So then Intel's sitting around going, what are we going to do? this one can do floating point. And Microsoft is like, hey, what about Excel? We can make Excel better if you have a coprocessor. And people will buy this and it'll do cool stuff. So then people who don't need a coprocessor save money, they use an SX. People who want a coprocessor and they want to do floating point, they get a DX. And Excel ran better when you had that. And then we had things like the Intel MMX instruction set and different instruction sets.

43:11Those instruction sets have largely been kind of hidden from us. Your computer just gets faster when a new AMD or a new Intel chip comes around. An NPU is a coprocessor. It's an AI coprocessor. So you have it, it lights up, it works better. So you can run OLAMA or AI Toolkit or LM Studio on the CPU. It's fine. It'll maybe do some number of tokens per second. Then you do it on this GPU and it'll do twice as many tokens per second, but it'll be hotter. It'll waste a lot of power. Or you can do it on the NPU and it'll do even more. Like I think this NPU does 40 trillion operations a second. It's very specific.

43:47It's not a CPU. It's a tensor-based AI coprocessor. So if I were to go into something like this, I'm just going to grab a folder here. I can run the AI toolkit, but I think on this machine here, I have a copy of LM Studio, Language Model Studio. This is just a partner. They're very nice folks. My buddy works there. So I'm loading up LM Studio here, which is kind of like Postman for AI. Okay. Right, just like the Microsoft AI toolkit, you can get that for free or Ollama or Foundry Local, which we launched. I can open up Foundry Local and I can say, hey, I want to run a particular model. I'm going to load up Lama.

44:27This is a three billion parameter model. Okay. And then I'm going to open up the task manager and we're going to see this local model. I'm going to switch it actually into airplane mode because I think that's important to show because sometimes people do demos and you don't believe them because you're like, yeah, Yeah, this guy's full of crap. He's pulling a quick one on us. Okay. So now, look at this. So now suddenly my NPU has three gigs of memory used up. You can see the moment there, right? Now I'm going to say, hey, AI. Let's say I have some hand issues, so I'm going to dictate. Okay. Hey, tell me a long story.

45:07No, stop talking. I'm dictating. There we go. So I just said, hey, tell me a long story. I'm going to hit enter. I'm in airplane mode. You're going to light that thing up. All that work is happening there in the NPU. Look at my CPU. It's at 12%. CPU is chillaxing, right? You've got more than one processor in your machine to do the stuff that you want to do. Why is this better, this inference? They call it inference, right? Is this inference? You're running the model. You're asking a question. It's inference. In this case, it is doing generative, pre-trained, transforming, and inference is a piece of that pipeline of work that is being done.

45:42You're not training the model. I'm not training. In this case, oh, that's a great point. I would train it on the GPU. Right. And I would squish it down. I would distill it down to its fine-tuned bits, and then I would give it to you. So another great example, there's a company called Cephable, C-E-P-H-A-B-L-E. They're a partner. And he makes an application for people who are disabled or differently able to be able to, like, play video games and control their computers. Let's say that you have mobility issues and you can only move your face. and you want to make it so moving your eyebrows up hits the space bar.

46:17So you have a camera going at 30 frames a second, 50 frames a second, 60 frames a second. Who does that work? CPU, GPU, or NPU? Well, I want that to be instantaneous. Like if I'm playing Mario and I'm going to move my eyebrows and I'm going to jump each time the Mario guy goes, I want that to be 20 milliseconds, 10 milliseconds. But if I send it to the cloud, that's got a privacy concern. There's issues there. if I'm going to do it on the GPU, well, I should be doing graphics on the GPU. If I do it on the CPU, then other background work can't happen. So he has a custom model that runs on this Snapdragon processor that is going to do that work there.

46:54So all the work happens entirely privately, locally, in minimal time using no other resources, and it's showing an orchestration of this work. So then he can have custom accessible controllers. He could smile, like moving your eyes and smiling. These could all control the computer entirely local on the machine. Or another example would be an app called Pieces, Pieces.app. The fellow's walking around here somewhere. He's got like a co-pilot for programmers that is the space in between your apps. He's here? Yeah, he's here, dude. He's so cool. I'll introduce you. He's the best. Pieces is great. We've been able to work together.

47:36We're sponsored, so we've been trying to get them as a sponsor. Oh, dude, I'll text him right now. I think we've had attempts and stuff like that, but there's been some. Yeah. I've been a fan. Yeah, he's the best. I'll text him. Let me hang on. Hey, Kamala, you should come hang out with the changelog in podcast area C. Yes. Okay, I just texted him. Awesome. So Savo is his name. So pieces will watch the work that you're doing, and instead of like recall where it's looking at the screen, it's actually looking at the clipboard and your tabs and stuff because you're installing extensions. So if you use VS Code, you install an extension.

48:06You use Edge, you install an extension. You use Jira, you plug in an extension. And then as you're working, you go, hang on a second. Wasn't I talking to so-and-so about that on Tuesday? What was that I was looking at? Oh, you were on Stack Overflow exploring bubble sorts. I can get that information for you. So it's permissively watching that stuff. And then the work happens locally using tools like Olama or Fi running on the NPU. All that work happens locally. So suddenly things light up on the coprocessor. That's the promise. That's the idea. I think it's kind of cool. That's a cool idea. That is super cool.

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49:42So I want to do that at the network level in my house. So my house has private AI. Yeah, you can totally do that with Home Assistant. How does this apply? You could do that with Home Assistant. So let's say that you had Paulus Schautzen's Home Assistant with the Nabucasa company. Paulus made a Home Assistant. what you would do is you'd make a home assistant extension to talk to one of these APIs. So if I go into like Foundry Local, Foundry Local starts up a local server running entirely here, like in airplane mode. But let's say we block access to the internet and we have only the intranet available.

50:19Then I want to be able to talk to local host, one, two, three, four, or whatever. It makes an open AI compatible REST endpoint. so then you can talk to the local model everything stays inside your house you would use the npu or the gpu or whatever you have you've got a good computer already so i would use like gpu only yeah so use that it's rtx 3090 there you go that's great perfectly chromium do that over the npu i would use what you have of course so if you have an npu use that to buy some new stuff he's trying to buy new stuff what should i buy i want the best stuff so i was trying to depends on the best stuff.

50:55So it depends on the best stuff. If you want to run small models, an NPU is the best speed, the best... For a laptop. For a laptop. Right. And I think in the future we'll see this on desktops. I think so. Oh yeah. I don't know how it'll look like. How small is small? Well, so I think that if you look at how Apple Silicon is what they call an SOC, right? It's all on a system on a chip. You've got Intel NPUs. You've got Qualcomm NPUs. It's just going to be another section of the chip dedicated to doing that. And then the Onyx runtime will just light up. So just like you have TPMs and GPUs and your machine just goes, oh, you got one of these?

51:36I can do – I'll do better because you have this thing. It's kind of like that motherboard chipset that's on there, right? Because when you buy a motherboard, the reason why it gets upgraded to do 10 gigabit Ethernet versus not, or 2.5 or 1, is because there's chips that can handle instructions, and you can do things like RAID and NVMe and how many PCIe slots can you configure to. Each generation of system adds new opcodes effectively. Like we talked about the early days 30 years ago with the 486, then things like MMX, the multimedia extensions for the Pentium, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Some of them make it on the front page of Anand tech, RIP, and some of them don't, right?

52:24NPUs, I think, are the next thing because everyone's going to have NPUs. And then the Onyx runtime and runtimes like it will hide that from us. Just like you don't really think about whether you have an NVIDIA or another 3D card. Things like DirectX hide that from you. So you're going to have a layer on top of that work. Yeah, that's cool. But I like the idea. You really nailed it because I use the Home Assistant example. It's great because Home Assistant is trying to be private Alexa in your house that you can run in airplane mode. And by in airplane mode, you pull the wire for Comcast cable to your house.

52:57Can you still do stuff? Can you still turn the lights on and off? I've got a Raspberry Pi running a Home Assistant, and then I'm going to swap it out for Home Assistant Green. Then I get a plug-in to go and talk to the NPU and I get within a new private voice systems. Nabucasa just came out with a private voice, you know, their own Alexa. Yeah. And now I can be like Scotty in Star Trek and go, computer, please turn on the lights. And it's all local. Okay. Yeah. I love all that. Is this a good brain dump? I want to go to there. Do you like that? I want to live in this life. I want Star Trek The Next Generation.

53:31Same. And that's the challenge, though, right? We've got that level of tech. We just need the sophisticated culture and society to go behind it. Yeah, totally. There's a lot of glue that needs to happen. A lot of people. One more request for you is this. Is that back to the reason for my question about your like or dislike, which is not a dislike of Windows. I'm non-denominational. I have a Mac, too. There you go. Is this. Is that like I just saw a bunch of very cool developer-y stuff on your Windows machine. It does not come like that. Yeah, neither did your Mac when you installed the things you installed.

54:06No, it didn't, but I don't know how to get there. Sure. Okay, I'll do a YouTube for you. Where is the best? Yeah, I want to go from zero Windows, brand new, fresh, Windows Pro. Right, right. Because who would not go Pro? Because you have a reason to go Pro. You need these extra features. So what would you want on your Windows machine? I want a command line. Cool command line. I want to be able to SSH into and from. Okay. I want to SSH out and in to that machine. So you want WSL, you want Power Toys, you want the command palette. I want to know how to use those things, too. That zoom-in stuff you did.

54:34You like that? All those things you were doing. I want those things on the command line when you're in PowerShell. I will do a video for you. I don't need the blood sugar. Blood sugar could work for me, too, I suppose. Why not, right? Because everybody could use that. While you're at it, you might as well. While you're at it, you know. How does a blood sugar part work? So I'm type 1 diabetic, and I have an open-source artificial pancreas built on top of a hacked Dexcom glucose sensor in my arm right here. Okay. And I hacked Omnipod, which is here in my right arm. And I'm using a piece of open source software called Loop that is managing my blood sugar.

55:08And that's my blood sugar right there in real time. And then that hops over to here with Bluetooth. Then it goes up into Cosmos DB in Azure and sits on an open source tool called NightScout. NightScout is an open source database that makes my blood sugar available to myself. And then gives me a REST API. So then OhMyPosh is the command line tool that is showing all of my Git repo and all of my details and stuff like that. And OhMyPosh calls that API every five minutes. So then as I'm typing and hitting enter and typing, I'm hitting enter. It's refreshing my blood sugar every five minutes. Now, I'm in Seattle now, but I live in Portland.

55:45There's a thing called a DAC board, D-A-K board, that I have, which is effectively a 17-inch 1080p monitor with a Raspberry Pi inside that has Chrome running in kiosk mode that shows a Google calendar, all the kids' homework, the temperature downstairs, family pictures, and my blood sugar. And my blood sugar. So then I'll get a text from my family that say, hey, Dad's having a low blood sugar. Yeah, you're all right. Check on Dad. Is he okay? That's cool. So I've got those. And that'll happen when I'm overseas as well. I could be 10 time zones away and they can watch my blood sugar. That's so wild.

56:16Yeah, man. Yeah. Yeah. YouTube that too. I have. Yeah. You've done that one? It's all out there, brother. That has to be out there. We'll put that in the show notes then. Hey. Put that in the show notes. We'll put that in the show notes. Alexander slash AI. Yeah, you hear that? You agent you. We'll give Alexander an access to our AI. Last question for me because we're hitting up against your time, Scott. Oh, we did. We're out of time. Well, we're not out. We can hang out as long as we want to. I just want to be respectful of your time. Oh, yeah. Is you're 52 by your own admittance. Oh, my God.

56:47You've been doing this a long time. You just got very excited about a whole range of things, which I appreciate. Yeah, I've been living like that for a while. And I just wonder how you stay not jaded or cynical or, like, how do you maintain the excitement after all these years? And I'm sure the ups and the downs, everything.

57:05Do you remember Tiny Captain America when he's getting his butt kicked in Brooklyn and he hasn't gotten to be big Captain America yet? And they kick his ass and he's sitting in the back of the... And he's like, I can do this all day. Right. I just try to think about those kind of men who inspire me. So like Tiny Captain America, Mr. Rogers, Bob Ross, Ted Lasso. like even at his lowest Ted Lasso was still trying to say right and be positive I think it is beholden upon me given the luck that I have experienced in my life to be the first out of college and my family to be able to get to this position in a company to be of some minor renown online to lend my privilege and lend my level privilege to people and to be excited genuinely about things that are worth being excited about and to be critical of things that are worth criticism.

58:08And in the current state, I'm on the inside of a big company. So it's my right, it's my responsibility to be positive, tell them what's BS, tell them what's not BS, until someday I'm on the outside of the company and then I will continue to do the same thing. So I'm nothing if not consistent. And I do that because I think about what would Mr. Rogers do? What would Ted Lasso do? How do you be a kind, empathetic leader in a time when it's challenging? So yeah, man, I can do this all day. Love it. How much more time you got? Can you give us five more minutes? Yeah, brother, I'll hang out. I'm chilling.

58:49I have a talk, but it doesn't matter. Yeah, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. An extension to that, I would say then, do you think, can you speculate to the how many more years in your career at Microsoft? You know, what is a, if there ever is a next for you, what is next? Oh, I'll teach high school science. Okay. Oh, yeah? 100%. If you go to my LinkedIn, you go down to volunteer, you can see I'm on the board of a historically black college and university for their business school. I volunteer at a number of places like Digital Undivided and Hidden Genius Project. I've joined a board of a company in New Zealand.

59:25I'm investing small amounts of money into little companies. And I think trying to send the ladder back down while simultaneously teaching kids. I used to work at Portland Community College and I used to work at Oregon Institute of Technology, which is a state college in Oregon. I think it is beholden upon me to help the young people. So I'll just go and teach school. That's the plan. Cool. Science. Science, man. Science. 10 years? 5 years? Jared knows that I... January 22nd, 2029. The day. That day. Yeah. I turned 55. That's it, huh? You're peacing out. Yeah. And then my wife will retire in June.

1:00:07Everybody knows that? Like, it's a thing? Like, that's when Scott's gone? I just think it's a good idea. That's cool. It's like George Costanza, right? You just leave on a high. Yeah. Goodbye, everybody. Always leave and want more. That's what I say. That's right. Leave and want more. Love it. I'll be around. I'll just, you know, trying to push things forward, right? That's cool. I think what I think more so is the intention. Intentionality is a theme in my life. Deliberate practice. You're definitely living by intention. You know where you're trying to go, which is if, you know, by that time frame, if we don't see you doing that, really, like something's changed drastically.

1:00:44Yeah. You know what I mean? But I don't think that's going to be the case. I just think it's cool when there's people who have been around a long time and they're still here. It's like, you know who you should have on your show is Larry Osterman. Do you know Larry? Mm-mm. Oh, my God. You guys, go and see Larry. You want to help us? Go and see. Get some guests? Yeah, I'll be your sourcer. I'll be the agent that will sour. I'll be your podcast agent. Larry Osterman is a sweetheart of a guy. I think he's like Microsoft employee number 36. Wow. He's been here for 40-something years. And his office is just Lego.

1:01:16He doesn't need to work. He's just got all the Lego. He's got all the Lego. And he's the guy who wrote the volume control on Windows. Okay. That's the level of awesomeness, right? This is a guy who was down the hall from Bill. And he calls me a couple of months ago, and he's like, you know, Build sounds really cool, but I've never been to Build. They don't really let the devs go to Build. And I was like, that's BS. What do you mean they don't let the devs go to Build? Build is all about the devs. It's all about the devs, yeah. And I said, you should be in a talk. So he'll be in a talk with Kayla Cinnamon talking about Windows developer tools.

1:01:48And he is just a delight. I had him on my podcast 20 years ago, talking to him about 20 years as a programmer. Now he's 40 years as a programmer. You're due. Why doesn't he stop? He's just having a good time. Because he loves it. Right? I mean, I assume. Like Dave Cutler, who wrote the Windows NT kernels, working in Xbox. Why? He doesn't need the money. He's trying to make things better. So for every sense that there's people not wanting to make things better, there are people honestly trying to move the industry forward. I'm interested in making the industry better. Not only that, but back to the AI conversation, they're staying creative.

1:02:25Like he wants to keep creating, I assume. Yeah, making stuff. Yeah. Like at my house right now, I was working on this cool Apple I kit from SmartyKit.io. So I built an Apple I, like a 1970-something, 77, Wozniak Apple I, and I mounted it on a board. I'm building arcades at home, 3D printing. You've got to stay frosty. Keep the brain cells going. Building arcades like you're building out the actual... Yeah, so I bought an arcade at a bar that was an old trivia game. I've got a whole 11-part series on my blog about it. Pulled out the CRT, put in a new screen, went to a metallurgist and drilled new holes.

1:03:04got new joystick and everything. A two-player or four-player? It's a two-player. It's a two-player. And then I've got my, look, see, I've got my arcade 25-cent slot here on my keychain. That's rad. I'm showing them my insert coin to play. So do you throw an emulator on there? So I've built about 12 of these. I'll take one and gut them. I've got pie arcades, small ones. I've got one from Monster Joysticks that I made. I've got one called a Pie Girl. It's a Game Boy, but a Pie Girl. I got from Adafruit, and I 3D printed a Game Boy case. Rad. All that kind of stuff teaches you something every time you make it.

1:03:44I'm building a Raspberry Pi tank right now. And then as the closing keynote at Build, we borrowed a robot from Hello Robot, and we're going to take a Windows ARM, put an ARM on ARM, and it's going to get me a Diet Coke. We're going to use everything that we learned at Build to teach a robot that I need a soda. Love it. That's our closing keynote. And why? Because it's awesome. Because it's awesome. Yeah. There's no reason why. Right. They're like, what business problem are you solving here? Dull, dangerous, or dirty, right? That's right. I'm not going to get a Diet Coke myself like a savage. Are you serious?

1:04:21Robot, fetch me that Diet Coke. Robot, get me a Diet Coke. I'm not going to tell you what I want. You already know. I've taught you. Is a Diet Pepsi okay? No. No, it is not, robot. An eyebrow waggle. You know we better than that. No, it is not. Yeah, that's awesome. So if I were to build a singular arcade, like you've done 12, so you've got variety of experience. Do you want to build one from scratch? I want to build one from scratch. I want to build the best one, though. So which one's the best? Oh, man. If I was just going to have one, now I can't really. Oof. I got an idea. Hold on. Well, depending on how much you want to build, there's a company called Polycade.

1:04:57Okay. The Polycade Sente, S-E-N-T-E, that has a lovely system that you can mount on your wall. It literally hangs on your wall with what's called a Z-bar. That is posh, and it has a NUC, a network unit of computing from Intel underneath it. And then it comes with a modular joystick, and you can get a Tron joystick, or you can get things like that. Oh, this thing's cool. I'm just looking at it right now. It's glorious. A little spendy, though. The cheapest way to do it is to find a broken arcade machine. preferably Street Fighter or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles but if you have a small space depending on how much space you want to use get an arcade 1-up machine you get either the NBA Jam or the Street Fighter versions then you swap the guts out of the arcade 1-up and there's a whole Reddit dedicated to putting Raspberry Pis inside of modified arcade 1-up machines it's probably way less hardware and it's basically a 60 % sized arcade so lots of choices what is your suggestion sir?

1:05:56Well, I figured you'd done it a couple of times. I was going to say, what if we had a gathering where we all built one together? Like in a day. A hackathon. Like videotape it, make a YouTube series out of it. We'll do a Pi Arcade. Have some fun doing it, you know. Yeah, that would be sick. Source them, get a co-located space. We could partner with Adafruit because they have like pre-cut. You could make like a Pi Arcade about this big, like a desktop size. Like, you know, the bar size. Yeah, right. Yeah. We could call Lamor and PT over at Adafruit and figure something out. See? And then when we're done with it, it just sits there and we're like, okay, somebody crated up and sent it to Nebraska or to Texas where I'm from.

1:06:32Like, send it back home. Give it to the children. But do it to get together. Like, take a giveaway or build it for yourself. Yeah, man. Just for the views, for the people, for the education. Because it's cool. Yeah, because it's awesome. Yeah. Cool idea. All right. I'm getting yelled at on my phone now. Thanks, Scott. This has been awesome. It has been. Just sitting with us and spending extra time. Yeah, of course. This is fun. I hope this gives you what you need, and I hope that you don't make Alexander work too hard. Okay, that's Change Log for this week. A little wonky on the timing because, hey, we were in Seattle most of the week, which makes production a little harder than usual.

1:07:11If you want a taste of what it was like traveling to Seattle, check our YouTube channel. This week's news episode takes you on my flight from Omaha all the way to Satya Nadella walking on stage. And next week's news will feature Adam and I exploring the city, playing golf at Five Iron, flying my drone around the Space Needle. Is that legal? Attending the after party on the 50-yard line of the Seattle Seahawks Stadium and more. Don't miss out. Subscribe to our YouTube at youtube.com slash changelog. thanks once again to our partners at fly.io and to our sponsors of this episode retool.com depot.dev and outshift by cisco at a-g-e-n-t-c-y.com have a great weekend share the change log with your friends to help out the show and let's talk again real soon