Natural born SaaS killers (Friends)

35:19And it's like, Hey, your system's doing great. A little overloaded here and there. Think about a Dropbox is always one of the culprits. Oh man. That's what we got. A vibe code, a new Dropbox. Amen. that's that should be our next project i kind of feel bad celebrating this okay i really do i kind of feel bad celebrating this oh yeah and everything okay for the audio listeners he did he fist pumped okay you can't hear those i fist pumped well gosh there's a there's a business sass i guess it also is personal because before business we had our personal dropbox and so yeah there you go and i pay annually i think but you know that's a form of monthly that's a big software as a service for both individuals and teams making tons of money sitting there not really doing much that i can see outside of the box you know that's right like it's it's there now i will tell you let me tell you what it's uh what it's doing here what's the last dropbox feature that they added where you're like oh that's cool i've been waiting for that i can't think of one so the coolest feature they added probably in the last 10 years was selective sync that was a big deal tuner d memory dash dash oh gosh this is so beautiful i love this i love vibe code vibe code and i'm just kidding i'm not gonna say it i can't go there i can't say it it's just too nice can you share it so we can see it yeah i'll screen share this oh my goodness did you know the the original dropbox selective sync 1.0 came out in 2010 that's crazy that's 16 years ago okay do you see this jared yes adam sokoviak at as-mbp-m1 that's right i assume that's your initials and your macbook pro and it's an m1 that's right okay all right your naming conventions prepare for this tuner d that's it okay let's see it analyzing haiku oh you said some panel just fine that's cool look at this oh that it's it's mad about granola they're running too if you keep chrome it just yelled about dropbox the formatting is a little weird here in this smaller screen though what's going on here okay there we go you've got it bigger than that yeah Yeah.

37:43So maybe some some touches and some feelies on that one there. Now, it's not upset about let's run it again and see if we get a new result here. Why? Because it was it complaining about Dropbox? It just complained about it and I cleared it to do this demo. There you go. There you go. Now it's upset about Dropbox again. See, it's like if you want the single biggest quick win, quit Granola. I don't even want it running. And Dropbox 1.1 GB. That's RAM. What is Granola and what's it doing? or granola is uh what is granola granola like records it helps you with your meetings it takes takes your meeting notes for you gotcha but like if i after this call it's gonna be like man jared was really on fire today maybe so great takes hilarious even when you're not actively sinking look at this 2.4 gigs consumed zero downside or zero downside in that case yeah but then you could also do what can you do tuner d memory release or whatever like free it you know see that now see now you get the whole dashboard would you see that down there now it's printing out down there too but you get the full-on dashboard look at this heavy google chrome always like look at these guys these culprits here adobe cc not even using it right now come on dash dash kill and you can just kill the stuff you know Well, I got it.

39:06Oh, don't do that because it's going to knock you out of our session. Don't do it. It'll kill you. I haven't done this yet. So there is, let's see what the dash help says. You sure you want to do this? Let's see here. We got some cleaning we could do. Execute? That's the word you chose? Dash, dash, execute? Oh, I'm just reading your docs. It says, scroll down slightly. Apps, uninstall, Slack, dash, dash, execute. Yeah. Oh, the reason why is I didn't want this thing to be, especially with uninstallations, I didn't want it to be like accidentally uninstalling Slack or something like that. I want it to be safe to run initially.

39:42And rather than running like dash in for a or a dry run dash dash dry run, I wanted to actually make it so it was explicit. So some of these installations are like system, you know, issue stuff where you had, you know, you had to do dash dash execute. So if you want to uninstall something, you have to be explicit and put the slice your neck off situation here. Yeah, it seems like more like a guillotine scenario. I think I would advise like there you go seriously I wrote that copy macOS system tuning toolkit get dialed maintain your Mac AI augmented dev and then dev is the should be the version and I haven't played with this enough yet to give it a version yet so there's no version dude put it on the internet come on well let's have that time man tuner D no you just say you launch Claude and say I would like this to be on GitHub soon please take care of that for me see the all commands run in dry mode try remote by default safe by default i like that no accidental uninstallations or executions cool cool cool so there you have a little bit of your own you know killing of a sass because that was a subscription model now the downside of this is like hey these these are our people this is our industry these are our people this is how a lot of us make our living is with this stuff i was thinking about like uptime robot and all these things you know uptime checkers like you You could code one of those up in a half an hour, probably.

41:05That's going to work. Well, you could Malt bought it. You could Malt bought it. You got heartbeat checks in there, which is that. So I'm of two minds. There are two hearts of this where like I get excited and I'm thinking like power to the people to build their own stuff and save money. And then on the other side, it's like, yeah, but I also have all these other people who've been building these software services and built lives and careers and hired a bunch of people and helped them make a career of themselves. And they're now threatened. Obviously, you can't stop the system once it's moving.

41:44But this is why people are talking about the death of SaaS. and i think mostly this conversation has been going on around recent stock market moves because the sas bundle of stocks have all been trending downward over the last six months we talk about adobe we talk about atlassian we talk about oracle salesforce service now docu-sign etc etc etc go ahead and find your sas etf and you'll find all the tickers who seem to be trending down and not just with your typical market movements. I mean, that's what people are saying is like, this seems like a sector that is losing value and that can be concerning.

42:30And also a sector that needs to maybe find itself on the other side of the AI wave and, and hope, and some will find it through and others won't your thoughts. I think there's some that I'm actually on drwealth.com right now. I just Googled quickly, SaaS bundle stock. Thank you for that new phrase in my lexicon, Jared. I didn't think of that phrase. I'm down with it. Keyworded it for you. Yeah. Zoom, I'm not sure who would vibe code a Zoom. Yeah, I'm not sure if you can vibe code a Zoom. Maybe you could, but there's a lot there. There's a lot going on there. Could you vibe code a DocuSign? I think signatures in the case of everyday folks is so free.

43:14Like I know Dropbox has it. DocuSign might even have a free version. But once you get into that market where you for sure need to have like daily signatures, you're not going to vibe code a DocuSign. There's too much legality in there. I don't think you would at least. Not in 26, maybe 27, 28. Shopify, would you vibe code away at Shopify? I mean, that's maybe for your individual self. Rails, you got Rails, right? That's what Shopify is. So on an individual level, you could do that. would you replace the entire platform? I don't think you could do that with a vibe code. Could you vibe code Cloudflare away?

43:50Maybe in parts. I don't look at Cloudflare so much as a SaaS as it is like internet infrastructure. Maybe it's in the bundle there. Parts of it, yeah, for sure. Cloudflare. Twilio, would you vibe code Twilio away? I'd vibe code on it, not away. Yeah, what if you find another base layer that's just cheap and just has an API or just an MCP server? You know, all the extra stuff they built around it is where the money is. Yeah. I mean, I think probably you got CTOs and their CFO looking at this strange new world and saying, well, who, what are our biggest subscriptions? And they're like, well, we spend$300 ,000 a year on DocuSign.

44:34Like, I just made the number up. No, no. I'm. Yeah. You're the guy. If I'm responding. Exactly. I'm the responder. I'm like, yeah. What? Yeah. Yeah. Like, could we, do we need all of those features? No, we don't. What part of DocuSign do we use? That's right. And then they list out like the four things that we do. Maybe we do them a lot. And then like, you know, can you put two engineers on that for two weeks and see what they can come up with? Two days, Jared. Two days. I'm being generous. A weekend, weekend project for two days. That's right. Or one dev and two clods. Or a dev, a clod and a molt, you know, and see what they can do.

45:08I feel like lots of people are doing that. and are going to continue to do that more and more as these tools become more capable. And I do feel like we've crossed the threshold where capability is now viability. I mean, they're very useful now. It was not, it's not just the promise. It's the delivery. Are there problems? Yes. Is it 100 % amazing? No. Do you still need to know stuff? Absolutely. Like all those caveats aside, there's real value here and it's starting to be realized and it's going to change things. I wonder if it's back to the days of service providers versus software as a service.

45:48What if we're in the day of bespoke software for me? Because how much SaaS, like you just said with DocuSign, when we start to examine and audit, what do we actually use? Well, we only use four of the features we get from enterprise, but we have to have enterprise to have the API access. Right. So, well, we only really pay for the API access because that's what we need that because that's how we're doing X, Y, or Z. Maybe that's how we're doing syncing and we have our own backups for SOC 2 compliance or whatever, for whatever reason. Disaster recovery. It's always, DR is always a good culprit there.

46:24We paid for disaster recovery and business continuity. And those are two reasons why you always spend too much money. Right. You know, and then you do that. But what if you're like, okay, great. now I got to go find two AI native, well-informed engineers who wouldn't normally build it on their own, but now they can because they're augmented. So what if the world is full of bespoke software built just for us, almost in real time, potentially by service providers and or the product marketer who has never touched a thing vibe codes for the most part. And maybe you have a couple engineers sort of like making sure these things are legitimate and secure and the things that really matter to the business.

47:10Like that's one thing that the Damien Tanner and I talked about. He was saying how he was evaluating a CRM tool and they actually used it for a bit. I forget which one he said they use. I think he may have said it earlier. I'm not sure if he did. and he questioned he's like gosh i don't really get a lot of value they make me go to this web front end that's not really for me in this dashboard that's not really helpful but i do need to keep track of these things and so he said he just riffed for like four minutes into like text to speech and yolo'd whatever that was and out the other end came this crm they're now using and we speculated on that conversation like what if we're in the era of just in time just for me interfaces and it's not really the death of sass necessarily it's like maybe it's always ill placed or misplaced or we still need the api maybe we still need some things from it but the ui layer is for the i think i think damien said this i'm gonna say it too the dumb slow humans like you don't need that for a fast ai you don't need that web ui you need an api maybe a cli maybe an mcp server if you're that's not a bad word around here you know gosh mcp check yourself you know that's that's what the speculation was was this world like just in time interfaces just for me bespoke i can see that being the case if you think about it what we're doing today which is like and which we've been doing for a couple years now which is like i don't write sql anymore and matt ryer doesn't have to build his grafana dashboards anymore and the honeycomb thing writes its own stuff you describe what you want like that's kind of a first iteration of a bespoke interface based on demand like a sql query is that it's just a hardcore nerdy one right like i want to see all the sales where this mount was less than this amount and then like make sure you don't include the ones from Australia, but then do that.

49:10And like you tell it that, and it builds you that query and it shows you that data. And that is a bespoke one-off ad hoc interface to the information based on a human's desires. And as the tools get more tools to build with, it was very simple to say, I actually did this recently. Here's a good personal example. I went into my OPPD account, which is Omaha Public Power District. That's our local energy partner and they provide, I think it's like 12, that's more than 12. I think it's like 18 months of your history in this like wonky UI. That's a single page app that was built by some low end dev, you know, who just got hired or whatever, intern project.

49:53And I'm looking at like the URL and I want more information than that. And I want a better chart than that, but I'm, because I want to know like, how am I doing now versus, you know, previous years. and so I can tell from their API calls because I'm a nerd so I open up the thing and I'm like yeah they're just like they're paginating this collection and it's just the UI that's limited and the UI stinks and I'm like all I gotta do is give that to Claude and say look this here's my cookies here's the API calls just see how many months you can actually go back and then build me an HTML page that has a chart that provides like monthly yearly comparisons since like all the things that I want to see.

50:35And like seven minutes later, I was looking at five years of data. What? Yeah. I was looking at my whole history on my own website running from inside my browser that just sitting on my desktop, an HTML file just in time bespoke for me. And that was cool. And then I was like, you know what? I'm, I love that. I'm, I'm done with it. You know, like I don't need it anymore. I can open it up whenever I want. It's historical data. so it's not going to change. I can look at that. And then next year when they have more data, I can go ahead and just rerun the things. They grabbed the, grabbed the latest and throw it in there.

51:08And that is, I think more and more and more of that's going to happen. So I think he's onto something. And I think, I think that is going to be a future. So the only pushback I have, which is not much, because I fully agree. I just wonder who's going to do that. What kind of person is going to do that? Do what? that what you did like no one else is going to have your intuition like you did because they don't have your software engineering history but because you do you can and because you can you do someone else that doesn't understand your structure or sees between those two lines like you did can paint that picture so i think yes the availability is certainly there but the kind of person who can do it for now is still largely an engineer or what we may call soon a former engineer gee thanks no yeah you know i'm trying to say though like like yes i do know my wife's friend no offense to them they're not technical they're never going to do that i get it they're not the patience at all ever for it i think there's like a gap right now so the one insight that I had that most people wouldn't have is like, there's more data in there.

52:28They're just not showing it to me. And I could actually, I didn't necessarily have to give Claude any of that. I could have said, here's a website that I'm logged into. Can you get more data? And it might've been, it would've just figured that out on its own. Oh, that's true, Jared. Okay. Good concur. I like that. So I think my expertise probably gave it a leg up and got me there faster, but I think there's a, there's a gap. And then we have a next generation, you know, know we're gonna have ai natives here soon in fact our kids are gonna be darn near close to ai native right my kids are already saying things like well did you ask chat you know and that's always that's not the chat in there that's chat gbt it's not some twitch streamers chat which is the other version of ask chat you know and that what they mean by that is like any question that feels like it's impossible to answer like we would never know or like eventually you'd be like can i get more data for my opd like we'll ask chat you know chat's gonna tell you and so they're gonna be asking all kinds of questions that we wouldn't think of.

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54:51Let me share one really uncanny story that I think was just really wild. We took this trip in October to Pennsylvania because I'm from Pennsylvania originally. And we had this, you know, we ended up getting stomach flu, which made the trip kind of suck really bad. I'll spray those details because they get kind of gory. but it was fun it was a cabin in the woods in the mountains of pennsylvania beautiful like this area is beautiful it's the fall time autumn time and it's when the leaves are turning and so they were just beginning to turn and so like this is beautiful mountain air you know just amazing magical and i think we i had done some planning with my clots of my wife uses chat i use clod she now uses chat and clod i still just use clod because i'm biased anyways that's a different different concern, but because it knew I planned this trip and what we were doing, maybe it didn't even know all this, but I asked it because I tell my son's stories at bedtime.

55:49And I said, well, you know, rather than me make up this story about our trip, because we want to reflect back on where we had been. We love to like reflect back on our fun times, the good old days, which was basically yesterday. And, and I had Claude make up this story and I, you know, similar to Damien, I just voiced in there dictation, push the microphone button. Hey, Claude, you know, do this, that, this is where we went. We went to Pennsylvania. Here's where we're at. This is zip code. Kind of give us some, some context and details that I can use to come up with some, you know, some kind of realistic version of it.

56:25This thing told us a story. I swear it was there with us, dude. Like that's how good the story was. So it retold this hike story we did at Ohio Powell. it's about a four mile hike what we saw the landmarks we saw the bridge we crossed like where we stopped at where we got the ice cream from like dude like it knew these things it retooled us through i swear it was there with us that's how good the story was like that is wild that's not a nap that's just entertain me stuff right yeah so up what'd you have the voice mode on the entire time or something how did it know everything where you went oh that's because i told it in the oh you gave it my prompt was just detailed got you i think it had some chat history too it may have pulled from but i was like are we gonna go to this cabin or that cabin it wasn't like playing this whole trip for me i think it may have had some data in our chat history potentially but my prompt to it was like we went to ohio powell give me an ohio powell story where took this hike and I told it the loop we took and so it knew the loop it knew the place where we'd go get the ice cream and knew the different stops we'd take it like horseshoe falls and stuff like that and so because it knew all that or it could go and find it and research it quickly it just did and it gave me a 20-minute story to read to my son and that was the first time I'd read to him like a story where he didn't fall asleep during the story because he was gripped by the realism of it being our story is like dad did it just tell us like what we did i'm like it basically did son like it basically did it was so close to being our story so very very interesting times i mean i don't know there's a sass out there for that but maybe there's a storytelling you know like just in time storytelling i mean you're you're taking audible time right there that's true that's true i would say the other one that's pretty interesting if you haven't played with this yet is notebook lm notebook lm is pretty our job man the podcasting now you know what i had this different take on it because what's the easiest way to describe it like i was learning some stuff and there's there's not a lot of content on some of the things i'm trying to learn and so rather than that i will kind of like have this session with claude and i'll tell it to summarize it for me and i'll shove that into notebook lm it'll create a podcast now it's not that great it's not that great of a podcast but it yeah i listened to one it will still do the audible version of the information but right it's kind of i think that the future of whatever it is will be better current iteration good enough i see the value so i'm i'm mostly kidding when i say they're coming for our job i think it's silly they call it a podcast when literally it just means two people talking right but i mean I guess that's what a lot of podcasts are, you know, two people talking.

59:20Yeah. So here we are. But, and I was kind of offended because the way it opened up was like, they're talking about what they had for lunch and stuff. And I'm like, I know neither one of you had lunch. Like I understand it would be valuable. And yeah, that's obviously just one example. It was the example that Google was using at the time. So I feel like it was fair judgment, but it makes sense if you had like a hairy topic or a boring topic, hearing two people talk about it back and forth is easier to consume and more enjoyable to consume than like sitting there and reading or even having an LLM summarized for you.

59:55So I do see the value there. I think it's silly to call that a podcast, but I think it's probably the closest approximation to what people expect from a podcast. So I get it. And I agree that they are going to get better. My initial tastes were pretty sour. The way I think of it in my use case is not the replacement it's the alternative so when there's a lack of real-time content out there that's good on the subject yeah or i want to go into this particular paper because we wrote it um and you know i don't i can't go back and read it so i'll listen to while i do the dishes i'll just feed it the paper yeah and these two ais have a discussion about it and I listened to a lot, you know, so I guess in that case it kind of is a replacement, but for me, it's like an alternative.

1:00:45I can't read it, but I, I kind of did. I would go and leave through it because I can't listen to it. I like to listen a lot. Like I'm a big audible user. So this is like right up my alley. I'm like, I'll, I'll do the dishes and listen to this versus that. And they don't give me the option to read it on the web. I can't just push a button and say, read me this article. So like this is the next best version of it. And it's been more like an alternative path to the information not a replacement of the original thing to take its value away or to like take somebody's lunch away you know their review yeah right this packaging yeah i just think that the the ai podcasters just need to be straightforward with what they are and who they are you know and don't try to be humans just be like yeah we're two ais to talk about this and don't act as if you had lunch that day or that you have emotions about things you know because like that's just off-putting but if you just be like hey i read this great article tell me about it like i haven't heard that version i'm sure it's out there where it doesn't have any sort of personal story anecdotes just ditch the anecdotes and stuff and just like be who you are i got no problem with ai generated content as long as i'm just straightforward that it's ai generated content and it's straightforward that it's you know i'm saying there's just value there it's the uncanny valley of trying to act as if you are not that just just confounds and and offends but did you yours didn't have any storytelling or anything about their lives and stuff like that's what i was listening to i was like no yeah that's the part where i think it's even too sticky they it's on repeat so they will do and these two it's a guy and a girl in this case yes they call the deep dive even welcome back to the deep dive where we're going deep oh my gosh our reader today has supplied us with a plethora of new information it's like i mean excited they're very excited they're very excited i don't know how to take this stuff man i'm not sure where to where to categorize this and like oh no this is terrible oh this is super core what the heck is this i'm listening to i just not sure where this lands for me i'm enjoying it though i really am enjoying it there you go i guess that's what matters yeah it's a new way it's some people will enjoy it other people won't and uh see if it makes its place in the world yeah i do think reading papers is oftenly oftenly often boring and so if you can make that more approachable and accessible to more people then you're going to help get that information out to more people so there's value there all right what else we've talked a lot about a lot of things is there anything else that's exciting or scary out there or interesting in the world.

1:03:28I did have one article in this week's news that I thought tied into our conversation around when you brought up service providers. And I wasn't sure exactly what you meant by service providers, but the post was the future of software engineering is SRE. And his entire point, I think that was Swizzik Teller, his point was that as the creation of software, where it becomes easier and easier and features and ideas and implementation get less important. What gets more important is the ability to maintain, secure, and operate that which has been created over a long period of time. And I think that kind of dovetails into your point about service providers.

1:04:18And I wondered if I was picking up what you're putting down or if I was misreading what you were saying. Yeah, I think this is similar because I was saying, you know, you can have the product manager and not saying that product managers can't or even product marketers can't be developers. They totally can be. But by and large, they're usually not. They're usually adjacent. And they're usually going to be vibe coding because they're not steeped in Swift or steeped in something or other. And they're certainly not going to be steeped in security. They may have security theory. But not be really that deep.

1:04:51whereas the engineer is super steeped in it usually especially in a shift left scenario so i think the one you're referring to is the future of software engineering is sre yeah you know reading this i do agree with that because if you run your if you build some of these things for yourself if you vibe code your own sasses let's say and you kill some stuff that in your life. Likely in today's world, 2026, you're going to be engineering or engineering adjacent, not like two or three steps to Kevin Bacon away from software developer. Likely. Yeah. And then you're going to be responsible for keeping that thing up or turning it into a reproducible product that you can conjure or call upon when it makes sense.

1:05:39Maybe you make an iOS app, maybe you do something else, maybe you make a webpage. Either way, you're going to be responsible for some version of uptime. So, yeah, in that case, that does apply. What I meant by a service provider is this. There are businesses out there that the large part of their secret sauce is somebody else's SaaS and their data trapped in somebody else's SaaS. and if they could just find a service provider, an engineer, a software developer to go and build their special thing for them, well, now they take back control. Maybe they free up$15 ,000,$30 ,000 a year in would-be SaaS expenditures.

1:06:26And it's not because the SaaS isn't good enough. It's because it's not just in time and bespoke enough. I think there's a lot of use cases out there where there's people using SaaS because that's the only option. It's not delivered in a box anymore. It's only delivered as a service via the wire, via HTTP. And not many of them are leveraging APIs. In fact, most don't even know what an API is. But I do, and you do, Jared. And what if there was a bunch of Adam and Jareds out there that's like, you know what? I'm going to go help my neighbor who runs this cool business that spends way too much on SaaS, build their own thing and now have their own secret sauce and have that thing locked down.

1:07:08Then you get into the SRE land because you got to keep that thing up. And you know this, right? The Heroku days, right? You got to keep it up. You got Fly. You got Render. You got Heroku. You got Railway. You got all these hosting providers. Or even if you got crazy, went out to Hesner. Got your own box. Dialed it in. You know, put it in the cloud. Boom, Shaka. You got your own box, you got your own GP, you got your own CP, you got your own RAM, you got your own disk, whatever. And you know what you want. But the service provider, I think this coming future, there's a lot of value to capture in the place where you got people out there spending way too much on SaaS because they have no other choice.

1:07:46and it's a dang shame because they're giving all that data to one two or three service providers sas providers that really don't care about them because they're not in the community they're not bad silicon valley company or not bad you know a company in a different country even not saying that's bad but they're not neighbors like five miles ten miles away impact my local community kind of neighbor. And I believe that if you're a software developer out there that is looking for place to place value, I would look there. What are the nearby communities and folks that are not visibly struggling, but they are spending a lot of money and maybe too much money for their own bottom line.

1:08:29And in that way, maybe struggling that you could be a good neighbor and a good service provider and build something cool for them. I think that could be the next big future yeah because i mean how many more of us are way more enabled to build a video editor we would have never built or build tuner d man you know what i'm saying and uh and just do a little shell out you know a little shell out to to clod and haiku and give me a one-liner stream back and make it look cool right you know i mean i'm using that so you know in that case that's that's cool for me i think there's a lot of possibility in that front there and that's the area where i think maybe we'll shift.

1:09:06And I would just say that maybe SaaS, as we know it, doesn't die. It just changes. It's largely a web UI. They largely gate it. They say, well, if you want the API or you want a non-rate limited API beyond a certain measure or access to your own data, call us because that's an enterprise ticket. And I'm cool with that. That's how SaaS gets their value i'm not anti that i just think that the world is pushing back on that notion natural born sass killers

1:09:42it's a good title man it's a good title oh that's dirty to say man i i want to tell you audience for those who can't see my face i'm not jared's laugh a little bit i'm laughing i'm smiling i'm smirking it feels a little dirty to talk about this it really does i'm laughing it's like a dirty word in a way so i feel like this is we can like a taboo let's not do this we are and we're not ai we're real people that's right for now and i'm still a plug puller at heart so you know there's only so far i'm gonna go and then i'm gonna pull that plug pull that plug cut that cord right when they pick up weapons you know i'm just i'm out yeah hopefully it's not too late yeah and if you are a sass out there i think my advice to stop being such a gate on your api if you want to be infrastructure be infrastructure provide an amazing api with amazing uptime great error codes all that good stuff don't rate limit me when i hammered a little bit i'm developing on something you just like suddenly make me stop because you can't handle it figure that out be my plumbing and be the layer and let me build some things on your things and have some data freedom that's like figure that out I think there's a world for that I wonder if that's the way to scale SaaS to the next level is freedom in the data freedom in the API we will see thanks for hanging out with us and helping us work through all these things and listening along let us know if you agree or disagree or if you laughed or cried when we said various things we hang out in zulip changelog.com slash community totally free totally cool totally cool and uh come converse with us you can also email of course you can do whatever you like and we we listen so that's all i got did you have any other topics i'm kind of rapping here without asking you but no that's it that's it i think we've we've said enough if i say anymore i'll just get myself in trouble yeah we do not want to get in trouble let's not do that fcc no no no Anthropic, we didn't say we didn't say anything, okay?

1:11:56We didn't talk about ClaudeBot That's not what happened here Some other bot You chill, you chill over there Don't cancel my account, okay? I keep my Claude code Alright, bye friends Bye friends Okay, that's your changelog for this week Thanks for hanging with us What do you think? Are the rumors of SaaS's demise greatly exaggerated? Or is this a trend that's heading up and to the right? Let us know in the comments. We love hearing from you. Thanks again to our partners at fly.io, to Breakmaster Cylinder, to Tiger Data, Namespace, and Squarespace for sponsoring Changelog this week. And thanks to you.

1:12:34We appreciate you. Next week on the pod, news on Monday, Tushar Jan from Docker talking hardened images on Wednesday, and Amel Hussein here on Changelog and Friends on Friday. Have a great weekend. Call someone you haven't talked to in a while. It's always worth it. And let's talk again real soon.

1:13:08Game on.