State of the "log" 2025 (Friends)

28:51To me, it doesn't seem like a very smart idea, but they seem to think it's going to be better. Maybe you're closer to the sun, so you get better solar power or something. But anyways, we can talk about that some other time. But I got some ideas there. You want to talk about them? You want to? Just briefly. I mean, it would make total sense, right? One, it's cold. Well, it's a vacuum. You don't have any air movement. So getting the heat away from the source would be difficult. I would think. I guess you have some sort of out and into space. I don't know that part, but definitely unfettered access to the number one energy source nearest to us.

29:28Yeah, closer to the sun makes sense, but you have to move the data up and down as well. Well, that's true. Well, maybe you can like. It seems tough, like you get a bad GPU and it's like, dang, we got to send another rocket up. Anyways. Robots, I bet. Robots and automated hard drive delivery or data delivery from up and down. There's no pipe, I bet. that's going to be like taking the data literally from something and down to the earth or just chucking it out right it'll make it right it'll make it it's gonna make it there's your uh there's your dns request there right udp it'll make it if not uh who cares somebody else will catch it um yeah i don't know smarter people than me say it's smart but um i'm a bit skeptical because it seems like a whole lot of work to get the stuff up there and doing stuff and then a whole lot of work to get it back down and then you have you have latency i guess you could do training but maybe not inference because i mean it's true what's the latency even from starlink it's not great it's better than anything else there's been but anyways maybe a topic we can dig into in 2026 is like what's a caching problem jared varnish it is varnish will solve this too that's right varnish in space.

30:41Now we're talking. All right, Fernando Remixed.

30:49Hey Adam and Jared. This is Fernando Pivillacqua speaking. It took me years, but 2026 will be the year that I will become a secret agent in the field. I really want to see the world and I really admire gas men. I want to see everyday creating in politics, faith, justice and so real crisis in my world of intrigue. That's it guys. Keep on rocking and thanks for all the thoughts. That's a proper remix right there. I thought it was like Darth Vader entering for a bit there, you know? Batman. Then he got like heroic? Secret agent? Fernando, Batman, Bevilacqua. that's what i'm talking about yeah that's what i'm talking about right there man that's a nickname for you the dark knight yes oh yes from from the south the deep deep south that's right deeper than the south oh my gosh that's cool i like that one that was that was epic that was epic

32:00well friends i'm here with my good friend chris kelly over at augment code chris i'm a fan i use augie on the daily it's one of my daily drivers now i use cloud code i use augment augie and i also use amp code and others but augie i keep going back to it and here's where i'm at i feel like not enough of our audience knows about augment code not enough about augie the cli It's amazing. I love it. What can you share? Yeah, we often say Augment is the best coding assistant you've never heard of. And that's both frustrating as someone that works there and is very proud of the work we've done, but also inspiring.

32:37We want to go and punch above our weight because we aren't anthropic and we aren't open AI. And so the quality of the product itself with our context engine, once you do touch it, people are just blown away by that. And so that That keeps me going every day. So not to bear the lead here, but this is a paid spot. You are sponsoring this show to get this awareness. Now, at the same time, we're selective and I love to use your tool, but there is in the world. So a lot of developers look at the space and they say, OK, well, how long can this work? How long is this sustainable in the case of Cursor or Windsurf?

33:14Or you pick the name and you think discounted tokens. Help me shape a lens for our audience. I think it's a lot of awareness, right? Like Cursor got a lot of publicity early on for like fast revenue growth, which well deserved. I think, you know, frankly, some of the media got the gets the story wrong. And that like if I gave you a dollar fifty for every dollar you sent me, I'd be the fastest growing startup in the in the valley. And so when you're selling discounted tokens, yes, of course, you're going to go very fast. But all that money plus more goes to the model providers. So I think the real story is the story of Anthropic and, you know, being an API provider.

33:53I think the market has just moved so fast and there's so many pieces of competition out there that it's just hard to get noticed. So, friends, I love Augment Code and I love using Augie and I highly recommend you use it. I love using Augie. I can hand Augie a well-defined specification, a well-defined PEP, as I call them in my world, an agent flow, and it executes flawlessly. So the cool thing about Augment that I love most really is that context engine. And I can hand it a task and it can just churn away on my well-defined plan and just never bother me and accomplish the mission. It is so cool leveraging the latest models, the context engine, and all the fun things behind the scenes in that awesome CLI.

34:38So yes, go try it out, augmentcode.com. Right in the top there is a CLI icon, a terminal icon. Click that. install it and change your world it's gonna be awesome oddmancode.com

34:56up next we have the my previous tease was somebody will outnumber andrew patten and that's jamie tanna jamie safe to say jamie likes the pod let's uh let's hear from jamie hey adam and jared Happy State of the Log again. It's Jamie Tanner. I think this may be one of the most on-time voicemails I've sent you. But, yeah, thanks again for another great year. I ran the numbers, and this year I've listened to a whopping 74 episodes, which is about five days of listening time. And I've managed to whittle down an amazing year to a short list of around 15 episodes. But I'll try and keep it even shorter than that.

35:40With the strife and the open source ecosystem this year, there were some really good discussions about some of the drama and some of the threats. Some of the really good episodes around this were Feroz in Changing on the Friends 111, Mike McQuaid and Justin Sills in Changing on the Friends 113, and a related discussion with Andrew Nesbitt and the excellent work he is doing with ecosystems in Interviews 665. I've also really enjoyed what feels like an increase in levity this year and especially some of the conversations with your friends like Amal in Friends 86 Dan Moore in Friends 78 Matt Raya in 75 and 90 and a whole lot of other Friends episodes As ever, things like Hash Define and Friendly Few game shows have been really, really great and I've really enjoyed them especially even being in my own this year and participating myself was really cool.

36:36I also really enjoyed some of the deep dives you'll have done into things like different folks' blog posts. So, for instance, Friends 81 and the interview you had with Sean in interview 666. As a little bit of an AI skeptic, it has been really interesting digging into some of the interesting cases of AI without a lot of the hype you'll have done. So in particular things like the interview with David Croshaw in Interview 629, Nick Neesey in Friends 88, 102 and 120, and Adam Jacob in Interview 664, and Steve Yege in Friends 96, and also Torsten Ball in Interview 648. Finally, I want to again repeat, but it's been really nice just having a few episodes of just the two of you just chatting about stuff.

37:31Not necessarily even about the tech, just about life and movies and stuff. It has been really interesting. And yeah, a really nice balance between different things. So thanks for a great year. And here's to another. Thanks. Cheers, Jamie. That was awesome. Yeah. Thanks, Jamie. That's very touching. I mean, just to think about that, like he's not only a listener to that level. five days of listening but he took the time to go through to retrospect he did what mattered and made a comprehensive well-articulated list and then shared it via voice to us and then it's gonna get remixed i mean like spectacular that's spectacular yeah i mean honestly jamie's list pretty much could have just been my list like yeah he hit on a lot of the ones that i would have done and if he hit on you know we were talking about doing eight to ten he got i think he got 15 or 16 in there but to add a little bit because he was just going through like you know friends 111 you know interviews 665 to add a little bit of color to those so he talked about the ones where we do blog posts so interviews 666 that was do repeat yourself with Sean Gattieke that was recently in which we had him on and then there's another one friends 81 that he mentioned called Change My Mind.

38:48And this is where we use Chris Keel's post about development topics that he's changed his mind on over the last 10 years as a bit of a launching pad into a discussion that you and I had. And about things we have and have not changed our minds on over the years. And so that's a little bit of what Jamie was talking about. Of course, there's many other references there, but what are your thoughts, Adam? Man, I could probably go on, but I agree. I think even that show in particular changed my mind. I recall coming to the episode thinking, did I prepare well enough for this? I felt underprepared because I was thinking like, how much have I changed my mind on?

39:28I think, did we have something, something happened before that show that kind of made it a little uniquely recorded? I don't know. I thought something happened. Probably a cancellation of a guest is my guess. Maybe. something i don't recall exactly in the moment but that was a fun one record i agree i like i like some of the puns we get to do like one of the ones on my list i guess i can just briefly share it and no one said it yet was turn him into a walrus that's on my faves list that was fun but those are those are like the fun episodes we just like just get together and just get in a groove on whatever it is and i think chino mine that was a really fun really fun uh probably the best pod that we recorded all year was the dev null one that we didn't get a ship we were on fire man remember that oh that was that was pure gold honestly i'm it might have been like the best 45 minutes we've ever done together that's why we were so mad afterwards because yeah the show that actually went out i listened back to it i was like uh you know it's fine it was good yeah you know we covered a lot of topics and we had fun and stuff and we did but man that 45 minutes was pure gold it was at least we get to say that and no one can no one can challenge the fact or the opinion more of a fact than an opinion a lot of good episodes here though like 629 I think was in this list 666 so we had yes we had Sean Gedeke of course agentic info changes everything the most recent Adam Jacob episode which was really good yeah and then of course the steve yeggie episode i think probably the most referenced as we go through our list here uh i mean steve adventures and babysitting coding agents that one was very interesting to a lot of people another stellar title like look at that title that was one of my that's on my list of best titles for sure oh man that's anytime you get an 80s movie reference into a title come on and it's on point it's like come on it couldn't be a better title there's no other way to title that it's like taking candy from a baby you know yeah which is a really weird figure of speech which i would never do okay um jamie tanner remix let's do it

41:48hey adam and jared happy state of the law again it's jamie tanner but um it's been really nice just having a few episodes of just the two of you just chatting about stuff um not necessarily even about the tech, just about life. From movies. From friends. From game shows. From hype. From deep diving. From whittles.

42:22Oh my gosh. You give Breakmaster a reason to go just to lose his mind a little. Oh, gosh. That's a throwback. I love that. That's cool. Up next, another longtime listener and community member. It's Jarvis Yang. Hello, ChangeLog and friends. This is Jarvis checking in once more. Great to see the ChangeLog.news website has finally landed in the right hands. 2025 has been quite the year, and I was happy to help keep an eye on that vanity domain and inform Jared of its availability. And I really appreciate you, Jared, keeping me updated on all the major news. Things get hectic, but always make sure to carve out time for a listen and a look through the newsletter.

43:11My final shout out is for Minibar 20. That's the 20th unconference for the Ministar organization here in Minnesota. For those who don't know, Minibar is the nation's largest and longest running technology unconference, first held in 2006. It's a user-generated, participant-led event, meaning there are no keynotes and all the sessions are run by the local tech and business communities. Best of all, it's free. Mark your calendars. Minibar 20 is on Saturday, May 2, 2026. Also, a very happy early birthday to Jared's daughter, whose birthday conveniently aligns with the event weekend. See you all next year.

43:57conveniently aligns these do you hear a little bit of a troll in there we were invited to minibar he thought it'd be a good place for our next live show and i told him that we have a conflict that week and so that's what he's referring to okay but for those who don't know jarvis he calls in every year and he gives us shout outs and then he always gives something else a shout out most of the time some minnesota-based organization such as minibar which looks like a really cool event actually 20 years to throw an unconference that's pretty impressive is it called minute bar uh mini bar like m-i-n-n-e bar like minnesota i think oh yeah that makes sense yeah okay minnesota bar minibar minibar may 2nd bar camps are still a thing is this really they must be at least in minnesota i know i know that the mebraska the omaha bar camp i think has gone by the wayside i think someone tried to bring it back we had it going for five six seven years maybe 10 years and then eventually it stopped and then someone tried to bring it back i'm not sure if it's still going but um i don't hear much about bar camps anymore miss that idea you know that's cool i wonder what makes them i guess just getting people together is hard you know it really is a lot of work expensive hard yeah it is a lot of work it takes some dedication there's risk involved that is oftentimes yeah undue you know like you're like why am i risking this in my personal life to put on an event usually with regards to insurance or etc or fronting a bunch of money to rent a space out that maybe no one's going to show up to and you're like eventually you're like why am i doing this you know you almost need like a a non-profit but established for it, which is a whole other problem, right?

45:45Yeah, now you're basically taking on a second job. Yeah. Yeah. Not easy. Not easy. So thank an organizer out there, y 'all, when you go to your events. Yeah, for sure. Definitely thank an organizer because no one's getting rich off these things. So they're doing it for the love lots of times. They have ulterior motives, but they're usually straightforward and still worth thanking them as long as they're doing it on the up and up. Just as maybe a slight mention to that, I was in the GopherCon channel in the Gopher Slack, and I guess there was some concern around timing, you know, because like people want it at a certain time of year and it's kind of hard to do that.

46:26It's moved. It's like August now or in the winter. They've had to move it to different locations and move it to different timing. I just saw like just a drive by look. Heather Sullivan, who runs that conference, along with, I believe, Brian and Eric. I don't know what the exact structure is anymore, but she was saying it loses money like a lost 200 grand last year. So even a conference that's well established like that, if that I don't doubt it's not a true statement, but like how true is the detail that that I'm not aware of? you know like what's what's left under the covers i haven't uh mentioned here but i saw her mentioned in there and go for con slack in the the channel there and the go for slack that lost money so like even if you run a well-done conference like that with great organization every year great production yeah i mean that's like 12 years running maybe like a long time yeah yeah so you're not immune to the risk, even if you've been in a groove for years.

47:28Well, even when the Who Runs Strange Loop, I can't remember his name now, but at the last Strange Loop, one of the last talks was the organizer, whose name I'm forgetting, forgive me, who put it on thanklessly, except for the small group of people that thanked him, for years, six, seven years. And he shared all the financials for Strange Loop, which was a very successful conference, small regional, not huge like a kubecon but certainly well respected and well run yeah and the financials just didn't make any sense like you could just tell by the end of it he was only doing it because he loved doing it there was no reason why anybody in their right mind would do it otherwise yeah and that's for like a well-regarded successful conference so i mean that's why on conferences do make some sense because there's less to do right like your job is to get people to show up and hopefully there's some catering or whatever, but it's just less.

48:21And then you're also less guaranteed that you're going to have quality talks, et cetera. I'm feverishly trying to get the name of our dear friend who I'm sad I've forgotten the name as well. Same. Alex, Alex Miller. There you go. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, and we were there. Thankfully, it was their first and last. It was the last Strange Loop. It was our first. 2023 in St. Louis. And we met that call in there. I was that was kind of cool. Longtime listener, Slack and Zulu participant and then met in the flesh fellow Pennsylvanian. That's where I'm originally from is Pittsburgh area. But man, that's a great conference.

49:01And then Alan or sorry, Alex, you know, obviously was emotional delivering his final, you know, rollout finale of the conference. and if you listen to the episode we delivered from there, I was smart enough to not only be there in the moment, but also capture a voice memo and put that on the pod. So at the tail end, the closer of that episode includes some of those final moments from that conference. If you didn't make it or you did make it and you want to kind of go back with nostalgia, we tried to capture some of that for you. That was a good conference. and if you're wondering about that episode it's called vibes from strange loop and it also featured the moment we met Taylor Trosh who we haven't forgotten ever since take my small hand that's episode 559 so changelog.fm slash 559 if you want to go back and hear what Adam is talking about lots of that was a grab bag an anthology one of the best yeah man that was awesome remix it let's remix it hello friends Friends, Jarvis has finally landed.

50:13Check, check, checking in once more. Friends, things get hectic. Always make sure to carve out time for Minibar 20, the nation's largest technology unconference. It's free. Best of all, there is a Minibar, and I really appreciate you, Jared, informing me of the Minibar's availability. I'm happy to help keep an eye on it. See you all next year. Jarvis out. Jarvis out. Yeah, that's good stuff. Celebrate the minibar. Yeah, that's a solid remix, Breakmaster Cylinder. Solid remix. So far, so good on these remixes. I don't think there's been a miss yet. No. All right. Now, speaking of longtime friends, here's our very old friend from way back, probably at the beginning of the show, Justin Dorfman.

51:08How long were you known Justin Adam? Oh my gosh. Forever. Over a decade. Hey, Jared Adam. Justin Dorfman here. Long time listener, 10 plus years. And I'm really looking forward to 2026 and the guest that you will be having on and maybe even see you in North Carolina. Maybe. Anyway, have a great one. And thanks for always entertaining, at least me. Yeah. Take care. Yeah. I'm a big fan of Justin. Max CDN days. Oh, yeah. Really involved in the community. Always trying to love on people. That's what I love about Justin. And I'm loving the work he's doing for Sourcegraph. And I think by proxy, maybe AMP too.

51:56I'm not sure because of the divide now. But I'm loving his role and what he's doing for them and just kind of keeping people informed with what Sourcegraph is doing, what Imp is doing. And he's, yeah, super awesome dude. Mm-hmm. Always love to hear from you, Justin. Don't be a stranger. Hopefully we'll see you in North Carolina. Mm. Here's your remix. Hey, Jared and Adam. Justin Dorfman here. Long-time listener, 10-plus years. I'm really looking forward to 2026 and the guests that you will be having on and maybe we can see you in North Carolina. Maybe? Anyway, have a great one and thanks for always entertaining me.

52:41Yeah. Wow. Very musical. Rhythmic even. Very rappy. Sounds like a little rap. Justin Dorfman here. year yep yeah very very rap like took me back to the 80s man let's like uh late 80s early 90s rap that was that was very much like funk master flex and stuff like that all right our final caller nabil sulaiman hello adam and jared what a year it's been this has definitely been the year of ai and i do appreciate and count on your content to keep up to date with all of that. However, my favorite episodes personally are the ones around Home Lab, Kaizen and Oxide. Those have all been great, but definitely without a doubt, peak changelog for me was the meetup in Denver.

53:31It was great meeting you all and making several new friends along the way. And I mean, who would have imagined that we'd all go adventuring in the wilderness together with the mysterious Breakmaster Cylinder and battle a whole bunch of rattlesnakes. It was definitely a trip to remember. Anyways, kudos to you all for another great year of great content. Take care. Merry Christmas. Happy New Year's. Cheers. And I'll see you on the other side of the year. Cheers to you, Nabil. That was awesome. Battling the rattlesnakes. Not one rattlesnake. Well, he pluralized it, so. I like that. Yeah, that's how stories go.

54:10They get better and better. You got to embellish a little bit. Yeah, they get better as you get further away. that story a little bit you know a little seasoning will hurt anybody or that den of rattlesnakes we had stumbled upon gosh so many just one almost got us why'd it have to be snakes yeah uh man home lab for sure you know you know home lab's near and dear to my my heart um prox box for life zfs for life and uh windows for life oh wait well windows for a minute well not quite but uh i i did get support on getting my windows license from the bill so that was very kind of jim oh nice yeah thanks he he lent me his support to get it for slightly less which is very very kind very kind well i do want to mention nabeel's mention of our ai coverage and i think andrew as well or somebody else earlier on maybe it was jamie who said he's kind of a skeptic but he appreciates our ai coverage because it's not completely saturated in the hype that um you can get out there because we've also been accused of that um especially it seems like people on spotify in particular comment on our shows and they're very upset that we're talking about AI and one guy says it's all we talk about now and blah blah blah and you know you can't keep everybody happy but it's I want to bring it up because you know it is something that we think about and something that we want to both talk about and recognize and use and ponder but we also understand that it is oversold and that it is over discussed and that we tend to lean into it at times when I think we have less interesting things on the docket.

56:07We're like, well, it's always fodder for interesting conversation because of all the questions, right? Because we don't have the answers. And so we're doing our best to both talk about it, but not gush too much. But then when we're excited, just go ahead and be excited. I think you probably, as you guys have been listening over the years, have gotten a taste of both our excitement and then our skepticism and then our disappointments and then our realizations of what it can do and how exciting that is and what it can't do and how frustrating that is. And so, yeah, we're trying and it's not easy because if we wanted to just chase audience, we would just lean hard into it like so many people have.

56:49And I've never wanted the changelog to become like yet another AI show. and so I appreciate that you all appreciate the non-AI topics and when we hear the criticism we take it very seriously and then I look back at our most recent episodes I go through our playlist and I'm like maybe we are just doing too much of this and I look at it and I'm like you know what nope there's plenty of stuff in there that's not it's just like confirmation bias I guess when people say it's all we talk about I think it definitely is a recurring topic but it's not the isolated primary topic obviously of the show, yeah, I mean it's what episodes it is yeah, I think even like the show I did recently with Alex Kuchmar was that we were talking about the Linux rabbit hole essentially because I didn't even plan that really we just started talking about the fun stuff and that was kind of fun and I think we were about 50 minutes in and he mentioned something he had done vibe coding and we talked about on the podcast as well and i didn't even plan to mention it really yeah so it wasn't like a topic on my mind but obviously he laid down the spades so we we played spades well just wanted to mention that we do think about it and we hope to bring somewhat level-headed and yet also keeping to the edge of what things are going on and not ignoring it just because it's AI because I feel like that's also foolhardy and of course news talks about it all the time because it's so much in the news and so if you want to keep up with it without having to actually follow the news yourself of course I feel like we've tried to be a good resource for that but you know opinions vary and mileage varies as well even my own mileage with the same tool I was using yesterday varies today it's like oh I was so excited yesterday and then I hit a road block today and now I'm mad again.

58:50You know, it's like doing two all over again because we're emotional beings. Well, let's get to the bills and our final break master cylinder remix. Peak change. Look for me.

59:09Was venturing in the wilderness.

59:17Together with the mysterious Breakmaster Settler.

59:24And battling a whole bunch of rattlesnakes.

59:48There's a little trail off there. I love the footsteps yeah I hope that ending means that we survived you know after whatever happened there happened the climactic there was lasers there was a lot going on there somebody got carried away like carried away with their talent then carried away with their unfortunate event maybe there was no speaking at the end in the walkway so I mean we don't know for sure could have been a park ranger getting getting us out of there. We're done now. All right, we're done with BMC now. Thank you, BMC. Not forever, but just for this particular state of the log. Yes.

1:00:30And thank you to everybody who took the time out of your day. I know y 'all are busy. I know it's asking a lot to record a voicemail and upload it through a form. None of that's easy. If we were SaaS entrepreneurs, we'd be failing. There's too much friction. our conversion rates would be low yeah but plg is plg all that all that all that to say we we thank you for going through that for us because it makes us feel good and hopefully makes you all feel good too should we talk about our own faves now let's get to our faves i mean come on enough of these people's faves they don't know the real faves so our friends at framer are fans of this podcast and their sponsor.

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1:02:46The final chapter, you know, the final segment. It's like if it was a story arc, this is the final act of the pod. That's right. How do you want to do it? You want to go first? You want me to go first? You want to go tit for tat? Let's go at the exact same time and talk over each other. we've been known to do that I mean Jason will tell you you know I don't know I don't have a prescription I'll take your lead alright well I have a list that was longer than I was expecting 10 my list is 10 deep and these are all 10 that have not been mentioned at all yet which means I had a bunch of other ones that other people mentioned and I'm just going to 10 that were not mentioned and I'll start with the oldest and that would be Interview 625, from open source to acquired with Ashley Jeffs.

1:03:38This was back in January in which Ash told us all about Benthos and his journey to finding an acquirer for Benthos in Red Panda. And an open source success story in many ways and also just a guy who cracked me up with the way he was. I mean, his mannerisms, the way he talks, his random contradictions of himself, like he would say left and then right and he would stare at you, you know, like he's just a funny person. I really enjoyed him. I try to get him back onto a pound to find because I'm like, you're just funny and fun to be around. Please come play games with us. And he respectfully declined.

1:04:19But to our to my chagrin, I really just enjoy that guy. And so that is my first fave is from open source to acquired with Ashley Jeffs. That was a fun episode. Daddy pig.

1:04:40That was a good one. Should I go now? Yeah, go ahead. Should I comment a little bit? I like that one a lot. That was a good story too. That was a fun story from acquired too. And he's having fun doing what he's doing too. He's taking care of his family. Right. Right. Enjoying what he's doing. He's clearly pretty happy. Balanced, it seems. Remember how he sat on that chair? He had that chair set up. And he's like, this makes me more powerful than you guys. And I was like, it's totally working. It is working. The funny guy. Okay. Well, I mentioned one during the pod. So I kind of went first, technically.

1:05:10Right. Which was which one? Turn him into a walrus. Oh, yes. 87. This is when ChatGPT just got good at like Dolly 2 or something happened. Yes. Studio Ghibli was that. And then it's actually, so that's permeate. Like I loved the short or the clip. I'm not sure which one it was out there on the socials. I had to share that with my brother. I was like, this is cool stuff. And then, because it turned me and him into a walrus, right? We went golfing. It was just you. You were exiting a golf. It was just me. You had golfed with your brother, but he wasn't in the shot. Exactly. So in my mind, behind the scenes, I've got two pictures.

1:05:55One that's a selfie of me and my brother, and then one that was just me. And that one that was just me, I share with you on the pod, and then you turn me into a walrus. Right. And then I share that with him because he was there, and he would have thought it was really cool. And he's not in tech at all. And then so then he came back a few months later. We golfed again, same place, took the same selfie. But this time it was me, him, and my son. and so behind the scenes in our household i had to make me a walrus again or us a walrus and it's just it's cool yeah so that one's like a heartstring for me not just a good show and a good title but it was a really good show too i thought that was like one of those ones where it's like i think i said on there like this is what the internet was made for like that's the sauce man that's the sauce yes and this was around the time that i began saying i to this day i think we should continue to make use software to make things that bring joy to people yeah and like that's the good stuff now we can talk about all the downsides of ai generated images and i'm aware of all these things and i have all the feelings everybody else does but like that's the joy of software is like take this person and turn them into a wall it's just fun it's funny everybody wants to see what themselves looks like oh that looks like me oh it doesn't look like me yeah it gets old eventually and you know there's creepy things you can do etc etc but like let's use it to have a fun and we did that on an episode and i agree that was a great one yeah yeah i was just gonna mention it and then move on but we we dug in deep so i just i roll with it but the one i wanted to mention first and it's because i haven't talked to him in so long i couldn't be believe how long it was i talked to him drew wilson so we had drew wilson on the pod uh episode 639 of the interview show chasing that next big thing with drew wilson and you know i'm not a big fan of the with you know titled shows but that's what that was because uh drew is always chasing something he's he launched plaso i believe which was a banking platform sold it to go daddy or i don't know what he's done some crazy stuff the guy is always he's always on the fringe like on where it should be wherever the puck is going, he's kind of already there and he's kind of examined it already.

1:08:10And you're kind of coming to the puck and he's already been there. And that's true. So I really appreciated getting back on the pod with him. And we produced a podcast together a long time ago. And so it was just wild getting to hang with him again and talk about what he's up to. And just, it was cool. It was like a reunion. It was a reunion after many years. next up for me would be discovering discovery coding with jimmy miller episode 80 of friends and this is jimmy miller's return to the show after an excellent episode last year i think was in both of our list was the best worst code base we had him back on this year talking about his new blog post about discovery coding and i just love that even this summary here fire up a rebel grab your favorite stephen king novel and hold on to the seat of your pants jimmy miller returns to reveal why, at least for some of us, discovery coding is where it's at.

1:09:04And I'm just like, you know what? I hear that description. I'm like, I want to go to there. I want to listen to that. And that was a fun conversation about his process of discovery coding, which I think, honestly, is probably different than both what you and I were thinking about and talking about and relating to because his was kind of very specific, but fascinating, that guy and the way he writes about what he does. i wonder if there's a mirror of that happening in the vibe code world like if it's a version of that but not really like we're all doing discovery coding all the time well like i think that yeah because like there's there's uh like when i putter i call it puttering okay i don't have a target i guess you know it is discovery coding i don't even know what i'm going to pick up i'm just going to play with something like today for example like the end of our meeting i'm like i wonder if safari has an api where you can easily pull back all the tabs the urals and i'm in the page titles and turn that into a markdown list and moments later we had that script written written and like that was a version of like almost discovery coding where it's like i wonder what yeah i have no purpose here to like write code obviously i didn't write the code either but the idea is like can i can i automate what would be a 10 minute task to take all the tabs that opened up which was like 50 tabs of these shows and probably about 30 and make a list why would i do that you know why can't i just query the safari api and get that list yeah i don't know it's like it's like discovery coding in a way yeah to a certain extent yeah i'm certainly doing way more than that way more of that than i ever have because i don't have to i don't have to go through the toil of finding the answer i can go do the emails or whatever i'm up to and let the computer do the toiling as i do the discovering and i think that's really fun and probably a lot of what both of us are doing with these things yeah all right what's next on your list let's see here i have a long list uh let me see one two three four five six seven in my faves and one two three four five six in my must listen list two distinct lists those are the same kind of all favorites but you know i'm just cheating here because i because i want to you know honestly i want to say i won't say them all i'll spare everybody my my verbosity But I would say line number 14 here in this markdown file is Inside Oxide with Brian Cantrell and Steve Tuck.

1:11:48Very special moment to be on stage with them recording in the IRL as part of Oxcon 25, 2025, which is their internal conference. It's not really promoted or published much. if you are in the know with Oxide and what they're doing, then you probably know about Oxcon. It's their once per year annual internal conference. And this year they had some big news to share internally. We can't share that news because we're on our NDA. But if you were there, wow. I mean, there's some cool stuff happening there. And we've said crossing the chasm. Yeah, I'd say it's probably safe to say they've crossed the chasm.

1:12:24Honestly, they're not crossing. They've crossed it. And just to be there with, you know, I would say internet legends, you know like wow dude i mean such a fan of of brian and steve but then also to be in their headquarters office on their stage podcasting about how they do materials which is a crucial uh like it is the the beginning of the dna of their dna for oxide it's how they hire it's how they choose who to let in in this process is so critical to their culture and we got to just jam with them on their stage and that was that was dope as about as dope as you can get man yeah well that one's on my list as well so we uh we teamed up on that one and i agree with you that was awesome i thought it turned out really well and uh it was quite an honor you know it's like We were their special guests.

1:13:27And it's like, why? I'm not sure why, but here we are anyways. Let's act like we belong here, you know, imposter syndrome. Go, go, go. And it was lots of fun. Speaking of live on stage, let me bring up the other live show that we did. Now, we did have Nabeel mentioning Kaizen Pipely is live. That was Friends 105. And, of course, we did that one live on stage. We also had Andrew mentioning that as well. the one that wasn't mentioned was the interview show that we did so i wanted to give a shout out to that one live from denver live from denver with norah jones interviews 653 you and i norah jones on stage is the best interview we've ever done in our lives probably not you know uh could could have gone better yeah sure of course it could have was it still a cool thing that i'm glad happened and that all in all turned out pretty well and I'm super thankful that Nora showed up for us in big ways.

1:14:26Yes. And so definitely a highlight for me was that particular episode, which is the other half of the show, which has already been previously mentioned as people's favorites. Yeah. Well, that's on my list too, man. Nice. The Nora Jones episode. I mean, like it's, yeah. I mean, the IRL stuff is fun, obviously. I mean, I love humans. and I'm a non-transactional person. If you know me in the reels, which I think you kind of proverbially, you all listening, know me through the airwaves and the video waves to some degree, you get a pretty good snapshot of who I am and who I am here is who I am in person.

1:15:04I'm not a different person. This isn't an act. I can't act that good. It's just who I am. I'm a lover, not a fighter. I'll walk away from a fight before I stand there and fight around and I just love to go deep with people and I love to serve people and I love just to just to really relate and have relationship not transaction and by see ya so being able to be there with Nora and she accepted and she was from Denver and could easily do it and it was just like yeah that was cool and to do it on stage in front of a listening audience was was cool we got the the stage lighting set really well some orange and teal i think it was it all worked out well and that was a i agree with you it wasn't our best interview uh what could have made it better though i think what could have made it better was just like better monitoring like for me it was technical yeah yeah because it wasn't the actual content it was the execution of the right the process that made a lot of my little jabs that i do throughout the interviews you know just like random one-off comments that are there to get have a moment of levity and and yeah and whatever she just couldn't hear them and so like the crowd even kind of laughed a little bit you and i chuckled and then she's like what and i'm like uh it doesn't even it's not worth it's not worth even saying again like i'm gonna feel like an idiot having to say this back i shouldn't have said it the first time you know right like those little things could have been better but you know whatever whatever yeah a lot of good stuff there man is it me again yes it is okay let me look at my list here and see which ones of the ones i've selected that i will share i'm gonna say two more and uh i'm gonna say the best for last i think and i'd say charlie marsh astral uv what they're doing for Python with Rust is super, super cool.

1:16:57I've been looking at the design even of the UV library in terms of like the organization of all the workspaces inside of the way that Rust composed itself in a directory structure. So cool. I mean, just really, I mean, they have different teams doing different crates and just like the autonomy in each one of them. Just such a really very verbose design I think he even commented on that. But just what they've done for Python on the speed front. I'm a UV user. So whenever I install or mess with Python, which isn't too frequently, I'm reaching for UV over PIP for those reasons. It's just fast. A lot of things to learn.

1:17:41And they're actually making a business around it. Like it's not just dev tooling for dev tooling's sake. They've built a business around it. They've got a registry. They're doing even more stuff. It's really cool. it's admirable heck yeah man i'm a fan as well and i do think that was a good one i'm going to give a specific shout out to a specific pound to find game now we play a lot of these games we've had our listeners mention them as a group but if we were just to name one from this year there's been three pound defines this year one back in may and then july and then most recently of course we had our tournament of champions in november but if i had to pick one that just cracked me up and had a blast i would say it was the one back in may pound to find i'm going pants with angelica hill matthew sanabria john henry moeller you and i of course and the mysterious breakmaster cylinder himself for a hilarious and crazy game of a pound to find that had me laughing out loud as i listened back later and so if you haven't listened to our game shows and you're wondering you know how do i dip my toe in those waters i would suggest change looking friends 93 pound to find i'm going pants because that is a good one what would that come from what did the pants reference come from remind me it was i think it's either bmc or john who would select pants as the was the autocomplete i don't know it was an answer to a question and i was like trying to get him to lock in and they're like they're like pants i think it's bmc because that's just how he talks he's like pants and i'm like are you sure he's like i'm going pants it was that yeah yeah like he's trying to get out of spelunking as an answer okay cool yeah yeah it was it was actually one of the references i think you said number three comfortable pants for remote working i guess it was an option to select yeah exactly and he's like i'm going pants oh yeah then i laughed and i said i love your conviction he's going pants all right so that just became the show title those are hard ones to to name because how do you name a game show without being boring and so i just named the game and i just picked some sort of sentence that somebody said uh of course props to astronomer was also a good addition that was with changelog plus plus members and uh of course the last one went crazy sheer resistance probably the most conservatively played game of pound to find a lot of piling on we're gonna have to change the rules a little bit just stop the pylons all the time you guys all picking the same answers man That's the easy button, you know?

1:20:26When in doubt, pile on. That's right. That's the closest I got to winning, too. That's true. Didn't I win in the, I won in plus plus somewhere, too. One of these, I think. Yeah, I still haven't won yet. You won in the after show. And I didn't even play my trump card here on this one, either. I had the access to an LLM, and I forgot to do it. The game ended before I can, like, I was like, when can I play my triple word score? Come on. Right. that's when they like have the coach coming and pitch for you you know and then you just stare at you just stare down a strike and he strikes you out you get struck out by the coach that's what that is uh yeah and i i missed my i missed my spot there on that one yeah i i agree those are those are fun unique styled shows not your typical podcast we had an idea for a while then we was like coding shows or coding dev game shows it was dev game shows but like a long time ago it was like code games, I believe was the original kind of idea.

1:21:26And I think it was in Slack. We did something in Slack and I think you did it for a little bit and it just like didn't really catch on. Right. So like there's been iterations to maybe where we're at from just the idea of like playing games together. Right. So that's cool. Yeah. All right. Your turn. Is this how many more should I do? Like how much more time should we spend doing this? I can probably throw one more out there, two more at least. Let's go one. Let's go one more each. You can do two. I'll do one. I would say, well, I wanted to make this one last one, but I'm not going to do it. Werner, man, talking to the CTO of Amazon, Werner Vogels on the pod.

1:22:04That's recent. It's recency bias. That is recent. Just really interesting to talk to a legend like that on a podcast and to go through predictions and to just talk about things that isn't like, so how does Amazon work? you know, or how does AWS work? I mean, that'd be kind of cool too, but at the same time, you get to zoom out and get theory. Like I'd rather get theory from that level of a thinker than prescription, you know, like here's what you go to do. A plus B gets C, you know, I feel like theory, big picture, how he thinks, you know, I got a snapshot of this, this legend and I don't want to call him an old guy necessarily, but he's obviously I'm old too, but he's older than I am.

1:22:44I just mean it like you get to sit down with like an internet legend and kind of a grandpa to software developers and to platform makers. A visionary, a thinker, a discoverer, like he built it on his laptop. Like to me, that's like, wow, you get to talk to somebody who's made a dent in the world that big. That's cool, man. I'm like, I kind of like got goosebumps now just thinking about it, you know, it's cool. I agree and I'm also going to go recent because I had so much fun learning about Zipline man I felt like cool guest cool company cool combo of questions from us there's a good balance to that show I feel like we all hit it off and I honestly just think that it's a seriously cool technology that is right on the it's before it changes the world in good ways but I think it's going to and yeah there'll be you know unintended consequences as there are with all new tech but i just think it's i still just can't wait for zipline to be in omaha because i want to order a chipotle burrito and have it delivered to my house while it's still too hot it's gonna burn my mouth like i want to just come down out of the sky i think that's just a magical thing and i think it's going to uh just be a cool a cool piece of our lives here in the future and And I like to be able to learn about it before it's out there.

1:24:08Much bigger and smaller than I expected. Yeah. Hundreds of drones. 400, I think he said. Yeah, which was less than I thought he was going to say. Yeah, I thought it was going to be like a serious fleet. Same. That's still a serious fleet. But here in Texas, from what I can tell, Dallas-Fort Worth area makes sense. Texas is big. Dallas is one of the top cities in Texas. Yeah, it makes total sense. and the weather is amenable to it. I think that's the other reason. Yeah. It does get colder there than it does, I guess. I used to live in Houston and now I live in Austin. And so I guess it gets a little colder here than it does in Houston.

1:24:45But like I had been in Texas for a decade and I'm like, it gets cold here. It gets like briefly cold in Houston. But not like cold, it's going to take your drone out of the sky cold. Right, right. So I just, you know, like Dallas still gets enough chill that you can actually maybe get the inclement weather testing ability, but you also get the extreme heat. So you kind of get a little bit of both, really. You get some, a brief moment of extreme cold, maybe brief there is like a month, maybe a couple of weeks. It's cold still yet, but not like super, super cold. And then obviously Texas, gosh, do not come here in July or August, please.

1:25:20If you got somewhere else to be, go, go there. Don't come here. No doubt. Yeah. What a shame. Anyways. All right. Back to you. that's texas for you okay less ceremonious but still quite fun bringing it back to home lab state of the home lab tech 2025 techno tim techno tim uh that was the only part i did with him this year kind of bummed about that i like to just circle back with him i think instead i opted for alex not necessarily as a either or but just more just timing kind of thing and uh i'm a fan of tim I love his channel. I love his exploration. He's always got something cool to share. He's a big thinker.

1:26:03He's a cool dude. He's a fun friend. And I just get energized around him because he's always got something. He's got something to say about something and he's got some opinion about something. He's really into the community. He's doing a lot of cool stuff. And he's a software developer still on the daily. I think he kind of does a little bit of both where he's not a full time content creator. He's got a side job or a day job. And then also his platform he's built out, Techno Tim. I think he's more in that than he is in his day job, though. But I like his perspective on things. And so I miss him.

1:26:42I had fun talking to him earlier this year. And maybe we'll do that sometime in January. Get that beginning of the year. Like, what's going to happen in Homelab this year? That'd be cool. There you go. All right. Do we do best titles? Do we wrap with best titles? yeah let's wrap best titles so we already mentioned adventures and babysitting coding agents both love that one we both liked wsl.axe dash dash cat hello.cs yes I really liked over the top auth strategies mostly because it directly it was hard one to name and then we had the reference we actually talked with Dan Moore about all these different OAuth stuff and 2FA and blah blah blah and past games and then we couldn't name the show it was like there was all these terrible names and then it's like wait a second we talked about over the top which is the awesome Sylvester Stallone arm wrestling movie that I don't think Dan had seen or he wasn't aware of it and we actually I can't remember why but we I don't even know why it related to the conversation but we got it in there on point and then um over the top at off strats I want to go probably too obscure anyways i thought that was a good one what was the actual title again over the top over the top off strategies which is kind of a little bit less cool but more approachable like people know we're talking about yeah i don't know i would have gone either or on that one now that i know that okay stress would have been maybe one notch above current title we can go back and rename it it's gonna stop us it's our show that's right there's no slug that says that too so that's make it into the urls that's right just episode 78 so there you go yeah id only man uh what else do you like title wise man it's a tough one there that's a tough one let me see if i've prepared well enough for this i mean it's got to be a good title right it's got to be a good one isn't that what we're doing good titles yeah good ones i thought you had a list of these my bad i got a list of a lot of them.

1:28:49I'm just trying to figure out which one is the best title of them. Oh, well, you don't have to pick the best. Just pick one you like and we'll do a couple of them. That's so hard. How about Try Harder? Ultra Thing. That was good. That was a good one. That was a good one. I mean, there's a lot of good titles in here, man. It's a fun process to name these shows. Let me see if I can... I don't know. I kind of liked, you know, honestly, I liked Flowing with Agents with Beyond. That was a fun one to name. That's because it's your code flow. Agent Flow Agent Flow Yeah Yeah But that's not the one I'll choose Oh gosh Here we go Here we go You ready for this one?

1:29:27You sitting down? No You're standing up aren't you? Standing up yeah Line 44 from my markdown file Refactored in prison Oh yeah Yeah I mean like Good show It didn't make my list I you know Just It was a good show It was a really good show but the title that's a good title man like reformed in prison refactored in prison like yeah and then talk to talk to somebody in prison yeah yeah good show that's i could probably come up with better ones i probably it's more of like a sad letdown best title from adam but so many to choose from i can be here all day telling you oh for sure you know this one other one i will pick because it's another movie reference was the episode with Justin Searles and Mike McQuaid.

1:30:18I had a hard time naming that one. It's about Ruby and drama and it's open source. It's not a career, but I already knew that that was kind of Justin's title he was going with because it was a crossover episode on both podcasts. And I couldn't think of anything. I think I sent you like seven different things. I can't remember. And then finally I was just like, Oh, actually, you know what? I was talking with Justin about it. It wasn't you as Justin because he asked me what I was going to call the episode night. I had sent him some stuff and I just wasn't happy with any of the titles. And then I thought, you know what, this is one there where Mike at the beginning said, like, I got to be able to cuss on the episode.

1:30:52And I said, you can't cuss. I mean, you can cuss on our episodes. Fine. But you're going to get bleeped. Yeah. And that's why he's like, well, let's put it on breaking change. It'll be unbleeped over there. It'll be bleeped on the change log. And so the title, there will be bleeps, I thought was a great, there will be blood, of course, movie reference. Yeah. Also tantalizing, like, okay, you're like, I'm not sure what they're talking about, but it's going to get spicy. I thought that was a pretty good title. it saved me from an otherwise terrible title i had like six bad ones before and then i thought you know what let's go a different direction yeah sometimes you have to be uh a little out there in your thinking but spot on just as well what a good movie though there will be blood oh man daniel day lewis man he's the method actor of method actors he is so good uh his co-star in there was really good too yes the kid in the end he's not a kid anymore but at the time he was right younger dana something or i don't remember i don't know his name off the top of my head but fantastic actor just a phenomenal movie and i think i heard that he got swapped in like two weeks before filming started onto that off of somebody else fact check me or somebody else can afterwards but uh i heard that which would be amazing to know that he actually swapped in late because his performance is top notch.

1:32:12Spot on, yeah. His name is Paul Dano, so you're pretty close. Dano, yeah. I was like, what did I say? Dave, Dan. Dano something. Yeah. Dana. Dana, yeah. Paul Dano. Yeah. 2007, this movie came out, so not recent. Takes place right there in Texas, doesn't it? I mean, it's all about oil. You know, I don't know if it's in Texas. I don't know that either. It might be. I assume it is, but it might not be. I don't know if it's clear what the setting is. If it's in Texas, it probably is in Texas. I mean, it's. Where else would it be when it comes to oil? You know? It's like the Wild West oil trade. It's got to be Texas.

1:32:50Yeah. What a ruthless silver miner turned oil prospector. Exactly. That's the way to open a movie right there, man. Go watch it. It's in 4K. If you got a theater or if you got yourself a Plex box, go buy it on Amazon or steal it if that's what you do. I don't think you should do it, but you know, that's, that's your advice. No, I just heard that a lot of people are bypassing. Well, it kind of goes to the fact that you can't get physical media anymore, you know? And so if you can't get access to the physical media, I mean, what are you going to do? Yeah. I mean, I guess the only option would be to steal it, I guess.

1:33:27Yeah. Steal it. You know, I'm not suggesting you do that though. My, my, recommendation is go and buy it. Take yourself and get yourself Make MKV. Pop that in there. And then rip it. It's your Plex. And then keep it forever. And that's what I shall do because that is a... I think I actually own that movie. I don't own it in 4K though. I think it's in HD. Yeah. Take that out there in the bird pile. HD. Good for nothing. Honestly though, if you watch HD versus 4K HDR, back to back side by side you'll know what i'm talking about uh the sound is different the visuals are different and in fact one of the things i use is a is a way to gauge if i'll buy the 4k blu-ray or not is i go to blue blu-ray.com and they do phenomenal reviews for when a film makes it to 4k hdr and they'll talk about the picture and the sound and it scores it they pull out stills and frames from it it's it's really well done really great site nice and it's what i track to to know like new releases too because like being as old as we are there's there's films back in our day basically that are now coming to 4k right and uh one of the ones i just watched recently was uh was terminator one well i mean like take a film that was never i guess never intended for 4k i can't say that really but like who knew the future exists right in the past this is how it works but this film is is funnily cgi like so bad so bad and it's it just screams through cgi even more when it's crystal clear in 4k like what stuff is cgi when he gets like his skin blown off and you can see the metal underneath and stuff oh yeah like it's you can tell it's a puppet it's so nasty when he's looking at himself in the mirror right like on one shot it's clearly an animatronic i mean just like the whole thing is animatronic so it's almost better in low res you know yeah it kind of ruins it it really does i mean if i'm being honest if you don't like going to an open casket funeral or something like that man that's kind of what it is okay that ruins the moving away for you right do that you know do it get the uh 1080p you know yeah i mean i guess in that regard 720p go back on dvd and just stretch that sucker you'll never know you know what i thought about doing the jared was this man's i was like i'm gonna go buy i'll reveal i reveal the deep cut here okay i was gonna go on to our favorite place called ebay and purchase a VHS player and RCA that to my receiver not optics, nothing like that no HDMI, RCA the red, the yellow, and I think the white, I think, brings the audio mono audio audio and the film I wanted to get what was provoking me to do this was Cutting Edge Was that like a skiing movie?

1:36:37It was a, very close, yes snowboarding maybe very very close it was ice skating okay that makes sense with db sweeney that almost sounds like a will ferrell comedy it you know what i think it inspired i think it probably blades of glory if that's what you think of blades of glory i've never heard of that what yeah why because my wife and i both loved this film before we knew each other it was a released to 92 and so this is one of those one of those movies that as you learn more and more about your wife over the years like it took probably 10 years for her to tell me that this is one of her favorite movies oh this is a rom-com i was expecting to be more of like a 80s oh yeah but sports and romance dude wow i mean you know it's i mean double-edged figure sighting sports oh sorry just offended some people there of course the guy has a hockey stick so he plays hockey and she's a figure skater is that the storyline former olympic hockey player doug dorsey played by db sweeney uh pairs up with stuck-up figure skater kate mosley maurya kelly is her name okay and like the way they come together it's a good love story you know i'm a romantic at heart and uh but this is the one that was provoking me i was like i haven't done it yet so now that i'm seeing this again i kind of want to do it and it's mainly brought on by the letdown that was 4k terminator like i kind of wish i didn't do that by 4k yeah well i was telling another i'm like babe it'd be so cool to have a theater like we have 120 inch screen uh laser 4k projector super awesome sound system and then put a vhs player in there and watch old films from our back in the day old films from 1992 too i'm messing on film what's the now it is you're right what's the worst that could happen though it's not like uh you know the kiss scene they cut to like a mannequin or something like there's no cgi in this not now yeah that one there's that one there's gonna be fun like i thought for the nostalgia because i know when i watched it originally was probably vhs oh yeah so go back to the roots you know it wasn't on dvd then you should also go one step further and get one of those auto rewinders so you can rewind all your vhs's you know oh yeah put it in there be kind rewind be kind rewind man be kind rewind yeah so there you go yeah i'd probably skip terminator in 4k unless you just have to have the nostalgia it was laughable though man so i'm gonna watch terminator 2 and i'm hoping it's not a ruin yeah i think that one some films though are just amazing like alien uh like the alien series alien aliens uh those are two distinct movies aliens was second alien was first right a rare example of a sequel being better than the original perhaps yeah for sure and like aliens there's a lot of talk like don't go and watch it because it's so crystal clear now it's so good like it almost ruins the original grunginess of it and weird but they kind of introduced it in the process so it's clear but it's also grungy i think it's good you know personally that one didn't have a lot of ruin for me but Terminator was kind of funny, man.

1:39:55It was kind of funny. That's what you get. Grab it at the end, y 'all. There you have a little bit of movie hour there at the end. Awesome. Well, there you have our list. Check the show notes if you want to click through to any particular episodes. Otherwise, have a great holiday and New Year's and end of your year, and we'll see you all on the other side. You know what? Actually, one more. I'll throw one more thing at the end. I think you'll like this. there was a mention in Zulip to talk about the longest running Zulip thread from an episode. And I think we should have the folks listen to this.

1:40:29Like if you didn't get a voicemail in, you can still get your word in edgewise. Go to Zulip, changel.com slash community, hang out with us there, comment on this episode, some of your favorites, share a conversation if you've got some downtime during this holiday, and maybe throw some notes in there and hop in on this episode in Zillip and comment on your favorite episodes if you want to chime in. Or your favorite 90s era rom-coms. Or your cutting edge. Whatever your cutting edge is. Yeah, what's the cutting edge to you? That's a great question. All right. Bye, friends. Bye, friends. All right, that's it.

1:41:072025 is in the bag. Can you believe it? If you have ideas, requests, or anything at all, you'd like to say hop in our Zulip and sound off on the discussion thread for this episode. We love hearing from you. Thank you one last time for listening to our shows this year. We literally wouldn't be able to keep putting out new stuff if y 'all weren't listening. So thank you. And a huge thanks to everyone on our team and in the ChangeLog community for everything you do. You know who you are, but I will name a few names. Breakmaster Cylinder, of course. Our editor, Jason. Alexander on transcripts. Gerhard Lazu, of course.

1:41:40And our friends and family who support everything we do. Y 'all are awesome. Thank you to our partners at fly.io and to our sponsors of this episode. Check them out at depot.dev, augmentcode.com, and framer.com slash design. That's all for now, but let's get back together and talk a lot more next year.

1:42:21Game on.