Turn him into a walrus (Friends)

0:13what's up friends this is changelog and friends your weekly talk show about awesome internet memes Big thank you to our friends and our sponsors, partners, all that good stuff over at fly.io. You can learn more at fly.io. Okay, let's walrus.

0:41Well, friends, I'm here with Scott Deaton, CEO of Augment Code. Augment is the first AI coding assistant that is built for professional software engineers and large code bases. That means context aware, not novice, but senior level engineering abilities. Scott Flex for me, who are you working with? Who's getting real value from using Augment Code? So we've had the opportunity to go into hundreds of customers over the course of the past year and show them how much more AI could do for them. companies like Lemonade, companies like Kodem, companies like Lineage and Webflow. All of these companies have complex code bases.

1:20If I take Kodem, for example, they help their customers modernize their e-commerce infrastructure. They're showing up and having to digest code they've never seen before in order to go through and make these essential changes to it. We cut their migration time in half because they're able to much more rapidly ramp, find the areas of the code base, the customer code base that they need to perfect and update in order to take advantage of their new features. And that work gets done dramatically more quickly and predictably as a result. OK, that sounds like not novice, right? Sounds like senior level engineering abilities.

1:54Sounds like serious coding ability required from this type of AI to be that effective. 100 percent. You know, these large code bases, when you've got tens of millions of lines in a code base, you're not going to pass that along as context to a model, right? That would be so horrifically inefficient. Being able to mine the correct subsets of that code base in order to deliver AI insight to help tackle the problems at hand. How much better can we make software? How much wealth can we release and productivity can we improve if we can deliver on the promise of all these feature gaps and tech depth?

2:30AIs love to add code into existing software. You know, Our dream is an AI that wants to delete code, make the software more reliable rather than bigger. I think we can improve software quality, liberate ourselves from tech debt and security gaps and software being hacked and software being fragile and brittle. But there's a huge opportunity to make software dramatically better. But it's going to take an AI that understands your software, not one that's a novice. Well, friends, Augment taps into your team's collective knowledge, your code base, your documentation, dependencies. the full context.

3:04You don't have to prompt it with context. It just knows. Ask it the unknown unknowns and be surprised. It is the most context aware developer AI that you can even tap into today. So you won't just write code faster. You'll build smarter. It is truly an ask me anything for your code. It's your deep thinking buddy. It is your stay in flow antidote. And the first step is to go to augmentcode.com. That's A-U-G-M-E-N-T-C-O-D-E.com. Create your account today. Start your free 30-day trial. No credit card required. Once again, augmentcode.com.

3:48First link in the show notes. Oh, it's an entire chapter. We talked about it for two minutes and 28 seconds for at least. Probably also in here. probably in here you know i recommend min browser you said sounds promising i said yeah and then you said at least by name and then uh remember because perplexity pointed me to it is that what you're using now and i'm like yeah it is like is this a reveal and i said yeah it's a big reveal min browser oh my gosh i love this it's it is cool and i like it's up to date and maintained well you just kept going on and on about it i'm thinking maybe i'm talking to adam's any right now wait this is i mean because we mostly work together i mean we kind of are always just yeah we're the innies we're the two innies talking to each other yeah maybe uh min browser let me see let me see you don't remember the min browser it's this minimal browser that i found that i was going to use i do believe while i screen share during our recordings which is exactly what i'm doing right now oh my gosh and so i said can you see min i still think it's promising okay i just didn't download it if you just uh reread the transcript i'm very happy with safari i love safari too i just use min specifically for this one use case and here we are what's the use case we're frenzying together sharing my screen while we're friends so there's minimal chrome minimal chrome is this bringing you back are you remembering this or you still got nothing i'm i'm with you now i'm tracking fully i'm i'm i'm up what they call up to date up to date awesome well have you heard any of the hubbub around open ai's new image capabilities chat gpt new image creation abilities you know i'm constantly just kind of peeling back the top layer from that fire hose called AI stuff or announcements.

5:49And I recall hearing about this. I got to say, I've been away a little bit. I had my brother in town, so I just ejected from the news, let's just say. Right. But I do pay attention always, as you know. So I heard about it, but I didn't play with it yet. You haven't played with it yet. All right. Well, there's a couple aspects to this particular story. First, you have the advancement of the tooling itself. inside chat gpt i would say that you know i've been switching over to llama i've been using deep seek i'm trying to use these other models local llms but every time i leave i feel like open ai just pulls me back in like chat gpt is like a got this tractor beam around it and they're really i think developing i don't know if it's a moat but maybe it's a habit for me to where eventually google just won because you're just going to go to google.com because that's what you do it's pulling me back in and this new image capabilities pulled me back in big time but there's also like a ip angle to this copyright etc stealing from artists there's i think a coding angle that i can at least draw out but first let me say that recently probably while you're away open ai announced some crazy new capabilities inside of chat gpt specifically around image generation and i will just say it's super compelling it's like really good and you haven't played with this yet no i have not all right do you have a file i do have a file Let me show it to you.

7:31Show me your phone. Those who are watching along, you'll see this, and the others will add show notes links. This is a temporary chat. This is not going, they're not keeping this. I have a temporary chat. I don't want this in my history. Yeah, this is. It's going to get dirty. Come on now. I've dropped an image of you into ChatGPT. This is you staying in front of a golf club, it seems. Yes, we were golfing. Wearing a Callaway hat. Mm-hmm. Now, this is an HEIC file because I'm not sure why, because that's what you gave me. I'm not sure if ChatGPT is going to like it or not, but I'm going to ask it to transform you into something.

8:11Now, I'm going to step on Lego's copyright, I think, I don't know, and say, turn him into a Lego character. And we'll get that going. Now, it is slower, but it's kind of cool how it does it. Now, this is not an ad, by the way. Maybe that'll be a conversation for later. OpenAI has never given us a dollar. They should, but they don't. They have lots of dollars, I hear. But they've changed the way they do this to where now it's like this top to bottom phase-in kind of thing, where they're going like pixel by pixel, left to right, top to bottom, which is cool because it kind of like, I mean, this just takes a long time, but they are changing it or they are demonstrating it in a way that you kind of like to watch along while it does its modifications however it's just getting started so we're going to have to talk for a while this is a large heic file let me tell you what else happened in the wake of this so okay they made this announcement and somebody very quickly realized that you can say things like take this picture and make the people in it into studio ghibli style or studio ghibli if you prefer are you familiar with the miyazaki movies school me jared okay gosh this is like catch me all the way up to all the things jared takes adam to school uh studio it's controversial whether it's ghibli or ghibli okay uh and in fact the creator you know it's like gif and jif normally I'd come down on the Ghibli slide because I don't I don't acknowledge GIF as a file format

9:54but the creator I think is cool with either way so whatever you want to call it Studio Ghibli or Ghibli is a animation studio okay let's go Ghibli headed up by Miyazaki who's a Japanese animator, filmmaker etc. an artist and they've had some amazing movies, Spirited Away, probably the most popular. Where's the actual list of movies here? Feature films right there. I'm in it. I just couldn't see. All I was reading was Japanese names. Yes, the left column. Castle in the Sky. Okay. My Neighbor Totoro. What are the good ones? Princess Mononoke. Spirited Away is the most popular. Howl's Moving Castle.

10:40Tons of good movies. You've probably seen none of these because you have to kind of search them out. Yeah, I'm not. But specifically the art style is, let's go to images. So they've created a very well-known style. Style, very anime. Okay. And somebody found out that you can say, make this picture in Studio Ghibli style, and it just does it. And the results are kind of amazing. No way. Yeah, they're really good. You should have Ghibli'd me. Well, I didn't want to Ghibli you. I wanted to try something else. but of course this caused a huge copyright kerfuffle because hey if it can just make studio ghibli style pictures that means they basically just went out and trained it on all yeah stuff they have no permission to do that are they gonna sue is this immoral etc etc etc immoral gosh well what happened was everybody started turning everything into studio ghibli style like imagine a famous picture imagine all the memes every meme got turned into yes like you name it trump and people were of course who else elon musk is he still famous elon musk i'm sure it happened to him it happened to the remember the girl in the foreground of the house that's burning down and she's got that oh yeah look on her like every single meme got converted into this style within hours.

12:07And so it was kind of a joyous moment on the internet because everybody forgot their troubles and just said, what if everything was Studio Ghibli style? And then the world would be great. And then it was great for a few short hours. Okay, TIL, Disaster Girl, Real Story. Check this out, folks in Zulip, in the general channel. t-i-l disaster grill real story we will just just talk right over this okay what's happening here so one of the other things that happened in the wake of this is sam altman's like hey guys our computers are on fire here stop using this like crazy and everything slowed down and things started to fail i'm trying to get you an example however at the top at the current time uh it's failing so that makes for great audio i'll try it into a lego character see if that one works maybe they've put an outlaw on studio ghibli for now well while it does that there is a little thread there linking out to a closing the loop story on the the little girl who is the disaster girl this uh youtube channel which i have become a fan of called buzzfeed video gosh ever hear that and she accidentally became a meme.

13:25So it went through the back story. So if you ever wanted to know, who's that girl? No, Jared, not your, who's that girl? And I knew you were thinking that. As soon as I said it, I knew you were thinking that. Of course. Is that the who? What do you mean the who? Who sings that song? Who's that girl? I don't know. Is that the who? Is it the who? It's not even who's that girl. It's ooh, that girl. Oh, is it ooh, that girl? Ooh, that smell. Oh, yeah. Oh my gosh. You just crossed two paths, but I'm chasing you now. Yes. It's That Smell. It's Leonard Skinnered. And the lyric is, ooh, that smell. For some reason, we both went to Who's That Girl.

14:06Well, I went to Who's That Girl because of your show. What's it called again? What's my show? Your favorite show, man, ever. Princess Bride? New Girl. Oh, New Girl. Yeah. It's Jess. Oh, yes. It's Jess. Who's That Girl? who's that girl it's jess that's a completely different tone but totally fair enough well say if you're playing the game who's that girl guess what happens got you you find out who that girl is and she's a meme now she was a meme and she still is a meme what if you're playing the game what's that she's growing up oh man then you say what do you say then what do you think this song is about this ooh that smell that's what i want to go to oh death isn't the smell of death let's check out on one of my favorite websites genius.com where people annotate lyrics oh man yeah here's the chorus ooh that smell can't you smell that smell ooh that smell the smell of death surrounds you so the smell is death Adam smell is death this is a dark song I know it's got coke in there and smoke in there and death in there drinking like foos like total is this image generated yet or not it says it's created but it's just utterly failing us so i'm thinking it's your browser man i'm thinking it's in a whole new screen just go do it elsewhere off screen see what happens i'm gonna do it off expose us to the jared world this i want to show you how good this is in the meantime i do have a software development angle into this particular event here's my software development take so gosh this is really good like it's a step change from the previous version in fact people were comparing this to like the apple emoji stuff like the apple genmoji stuff where it will generate you things there's a great one as a comparison maybe i can find it for the show notes where it's like here's chat gpt 4-0 whatever new stuff uh make me a picture of the main severance characters the force the four main severance people as legos and then the exact same prompt to apple intelligence and it's like night and day i mean the the open ai one is just like so good just smears their face with the ooze of goodness it is and it's so good that you're like i'm sorry illustrators you know like i'm sorry you creative people out there oh it's just happening and it's happening right before our eyes and now you can see my software development crossover angle into this is like i'm sorry developers we're getting there it's happening right it's happening it's happening i mean we're two years in yeah plus and gosh this just got so good yeah i mean we did just kind of like make fun of vibe coding and then somebody said we didn't that we said was good well they might have been talking about my conversation with amel hussein not with you okay so you were misquoting then i think you're i think you misread i think they were talking about linkedin because i told amel that linkedin is like not so bad anymore and they thought i meant linkedin was good vibe coding i'm very much ambivalent about i actually love the term and i think that as my as my most famous of my vibe coding memes said you know vibe shipping is really the problem vibe coding's totally cool it's when you ship that into production that it gets hairy and gnarly however somebody just posted something on hacker news yesterday ivibe coded a 35 000 lines of code app a recipe app with pretty impressive results i mean that's a large code base compared to what lots of folks have been putting out there.

18:04This is Tom Blomfield, who says, over the last two to three weeks, I vibe-coded the recipe app that I always wish existed, recipeninja.ai. It now includes a fully interactive voice assistant so you don't need to get your dirty hands over your new iPad when you're cooking. So, I mean, kind of a cool app. Here's his background. I'm a startup founder turned investor. I taught myself bad PHP in 2000 and picked up Ruby on Rails in 2011. I'd guess 2015 was the last time I wrote a line of Ruby professionally. So that's a decade ago. Last month, I decided to use Windsurf, which I don't even know what that is, to build a Rails 8 API backend and React frontend app.

18:44I assume Windsurf is like a cursor style thing. Using OpenAI's real-time API for voice-to-voice responses. over the last few days i used claude code and gemini 2.5 pro for some of the trickier features 35 000 lines of code later this is what i built and they link it up and you know it's a real website with categories voice search search cool loading images look like they progressively load and recipe steps entirely vibe coded so it's not quite you know take this image and turn it into studio ghibli but not bad not bad now is it easily hacked time will tell it's on the public internet now and it's gotten some attention are there any actual inputs besides search like how do you create a new recipe you can sign in with google you can start cooking but where's the third party inputs because that's where rubber hits the road on the internet is like once i have a submit button somewhere i don't see any of those maybe you have to sign in to do that but How do you create your own recipes?

20:08So, you know, it's still basic in that way. You think these images are AI generated based on the recipe? I don't know. I mean, the first one looks like because it's like a Wonder Woman picture. Well, very boring life cake. The one second row. Oh, very boring life cake. Looks like a pound cake maybe. Yeah, I mean, that looks like a pretty awesome non-boring cake. I'd eat that. Thinking about eating it right now. Deepest deep dish pizza. that yeah these must be ai generated images because this thing looks like it's like a stack of pizzas and it's not real yeah yeah also probably using that so i think i i'm hovering in the world of like it's all plastic you know that term it's all plastic uh no it's it's generally derogatory because like you get this nice thing right and you expect to be sturdy and all the things, durable, to use a recent term.

21:03But it's all plastic and it breaks easily. So that's maybe a take on the vibe coding. Is that code maintainable by a non-human? Maybe you don't care. Sometimes zero to one is not the hard part. It's maintaining one and going to two. That's the challenge. although I gotta say I agree with you I think it's it's super cool and it actually leads me I mean this is sort of off topic I can riff a second I had this um this idea or at least this insight last night let me see if I can conjure this into show material here momentarily had some really good ideas last night i'm gonna share with you anyways anyways anyways so i have this idea called the ai layer where every meaningful application that you touch on the daily these kind of tools you touch from email to you know layer something in we'll have some sort of ai layer to it.

22:16I think MCP is what's really ushering this interface into play, this AI layer to interface with, which means we will begin to truly begin to program our world. So think vibe coding for everyone. I've got home automation around me. At some point, these things will have this, it's already got it, but it's not accessible via this automation, I would say. That's where the AI comes in is more automation than it is generative, but this AI layer where you can begin to orchestrate your life, you know, that's where I think that the next frontier might be. And I think vibe coding is like one layer of this future AI layer we'll live in.

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25:28I got ChatGPT to do the thing. Oh gosh. How did it do? I'm screen sharing it now. Can you see it? I'm going to go back to my tab. Let me see. All right. So I dropped in a picture of you standing in front of a clubhouse with a hat on and glasses. That's amazing. Turn him into a Lego character. And the end result is basically exactly that. That's uncanny. What do you think? Pretty good, right? That's uncanny. I mean, the details are where it really gets it. Give me that image as fast as possible. I need to keep that. That's amazing. I want that. Isn't that cool? I might become my avatar. I don't know.

26:05i'm sharing with my brother for sure he's gonna love it it's just too much fun i mean everybody wants themselves to just get turned into you can do like south park style obviously ghibli style lego style i mean you imagine it and it will do it for you and it's not even hard i didn't give it like a sophisticated prompt turn him into a lego character yeah it was like how many how many words is that six seven and the background is what's interesting like it has your original picture has a guy in the background i think he's he's walking out johnny with the he was it was gonna rain that day and then in this picture look there's a guy he's going in so it's a little bit different you can notice how the logo on the clubhouse has logo got jacked up this was like a yeah falcon flying and then in the this one it's looks more like an f but it actually is still the same shape in the same color dude that's actually pretty cool for falcon head because like the birds now in an f-shape right calloway came across so like the exact spelling of calloway is there on your hat now you have an under armor oh look at that you do have under armor on so the the picture's even backwards look at that it's not even it's in selfie mode well they put it in a better spot for you well that's true so you're actually in selfie mode because so your calloway reads backwards yes and the actual generated one reads forward which is actually preferable too yeah they're like nah we can't give them back selfie mode we got to give them back straight up mode i'm gonna put that under armor logo you know where it fits it's uh that's compelling i mean i've been using this non-stop i just drop stuff in there and tell to do things and it's just amazing oh my gosh what is it doing for you i'm just generating pictures of my kids doing different stuff funny stuff we have a uh we have a talent show upcoming at our church um it's actually tomorrow night and one of the things there is going to be as a walrus impersonation contest this is still on the down low so don't tell anybody this because if people find out it'll ruin the surprise but i'm taking pictures of these different kids who are all going to do a walrus impression and i'm turning them into walruses using this i'm going to show it to them and they're going to absolutely just lose it because they're so funny because it pulls across your likeness but then transforms you into a walrus let me do it even possible i'm just going to say turn him into a walrus oh now this won't be that flattering but it will be fun let's cut this jason let's cut this just in case it goes south here let's keep this jason if it goes south if it doesn't go south cut it if it goes south keep it keep it no matter what it's good all right so we'll let that generate oh it must have been my min browser versus my safari browser it likes it was maybe it was temporary mode like i can't do temporary mode because i lose i lose some stuff now we're keeping this this is going right into my stinking history we're training the future that's right i've been turning lots of people into walruses in my chat history so chat gbt is already on to me well it's line by lining us here let's go back to what you said before which was private ai is watching i'm just kidding it's not watching you it's actually not watching you so private ai versus this um tractor beam this gravity this yes this pull back into the open ai world yes i'm feeling that because here's me wanting to have agency wanting to oh my gosh this is looking cool uh wanting to have this world where like no i got my own gpu okay and i got my own models called deep seek and others and i'm running my show but it's not about it's not about the billions of parameters in the model or even what the model can generate it's the structured output and the utility of the application that makes it useful and obviously you're not doing this image generation yet in your local lms all right but they keep delivering features clot as well they keep delivering features that that are above the model like above what the model is trained on in terms of its knowledge inside it's like the layering on top that is truly truly the cherry on top of this pie because i can get i've compared uh deep seek to uh llama 3 2 to llama 3 3 and waited for a bit and you know deep seek you know r71 for example whatever it might be versus 4.0, paid model, or even 0.1, or this image generation stuff you're doing, versus Claude's Sonnet 3.5, or 3.7, I believe, and what is Haiku is 3.5.

30:40And when I compare a prompt that I want to put into these things, I get marginally, if not dramatically better, enjoyment and riffing, I would say, you know, this vibing, riffing, vibing, with the thing because it's it's just got better output better structured output even if the ideas aren't necessarily better the way it packages it the way it uh bullet lists it the way it structures the output into a an outline have you tried to make this thing your task list ever like just imagine you being overwhelmed for a moment have you ever have you been overwhelmed recently no with like your to-do list never well when you take a break for a few days you get overwhelmed a little bit so i'm like hey i gotta come back into work after a few days being totally departed here's what's on my mind here's what i gotta get done organize this for me i just talked to it like that bam oh my gosh here i'm a walrus by the way i just looked down for the first time in a minute got your callaway hat on got your glasses you've lost oh my gosh dude you've lost your under armor shirt so walrus is going commando but everything else is still the same uh do you You think that's me, though?

31:55Hey, I mean, it's hard. Who am I doing? You're like, everything else is the same. As if it's, like, going to be me. Well, I mean. As close to me as you can get. It's a walrus. And so it's going to be a walrus. But it's going to try to have, you know, it's got your eyes. Isn't my nose like that, Jared? It's got your eyes. I mean. My tusks? The tusks are slightly longer. It does have your facial hair. My stubble. Oh, my gosh, dude. And it's holding the camera. It's selfie-ing. It is selfie-ing. Absolutely. so just too much fun oh okay this is good stuff man i mean this is what the internet's made for right here i know that's the thing is like i'm sympathetic to the artist and i feel bad but i'm also sympathetic to us developers and feel i'm gonna feel bad as it continues to go away from us but gosh this is good stuff i mean what do we should do too much fun this is what you didn't see my indiana pacers thing in recent change dog news because you didn't listen this week not this week no and this isn't even new i just came across this it happened last year but it's kind of something that i'm into right now which i'm calling joyous use of tech it's like let's use technology to bring joy to people and at indiana pacers games you know the jumbotron and they show like different things like the kiss cam and all the stuff that happens during the breaks well this is at a Pacers versus Lakers game and whoever's around the Jumbotron, they put this crying filter, like just standard, like Snapchat filters, right over the Lakers fans faces.

33:24And so they'll zoom in on some Lakers fans, but they replace their face with a crying filter. And it just looks like they're crying. And it's absolutely hilarious. Everyone's laughing. Even the person who's getting their face covered up with a crying face. And the fact that they start to laugh, it actually looks like they're like sobbing and convulsing and so it kind of compounds the effect and i just i just highlighted that on changelog news because it's like let's use software to bring each other joy you know and this yes for me turning people into walruses or anything else i think of i can imagine it's just so much fun oh my gosh this walrus is uncanny i mean it's just i can't believe it now i'm not sure which one i want more the the lego version of the walrus version well you still haven't done the uh do the do the ghibli one i'll do the ghibli one let's let's round it out with a ghibli close it there so a recent conversation in our general chat by the way general is now public so uh look out all of our chats are now public on changelog.zulipchat.com so you can read along without even signing up there was a cool idea coming from Brian Douglas about doing some revisits or some catch-up chats.

34:45We've definitely done catch-up episodes, but not very many. And there's so many episodes that go back. In fact, Brian was suggesting that we could revisit the rise of IOJS number 139. And I got to thinking, well, IOJS doesn't exist anymore. It got merged back into Node. and so there's nothing to revisit and then he also suggested hoodie no back end offline first episode 111 and i was like i don't think any of that's very relevant anymore and then he mentioned exorcism so like what if we caught up with the exorcism folks that one still exists it's still out there it's just run by different people and so we don't know them anymore it was katrina owen back when we had her on the show she's still involved i don't think so i'm pretty sure she is okay well she's not running the show anymore i know that anywho it's tough sometimes because a lot of these things just don't exist anymore and that got me thinking about some of our earlier episodes right i know you're going with this and where are they now oh you said it where are they now so i thought it'd be fun for us to just go through a few early episodes of the changelog and just figure out where are they now where are they now the project is it still a thing etc because so many things have come and gone or changed form over the years and the very first episode was about hamel sass and compass where are they now where's hamil where's sass and where is compass any thoughts well hamil is still there apparently hamil still has a website hamil is a templating language for ruby this is very much our ruby roots coming out as we go back to our first episodes because a lot of it's in the ruby community it's basically a way of so much cleaner right look at that how beautiful yes making cleaner templates what a dramatic shift and the website still exists copyright 2006 to 2023 does that give you any hints that's a couple years dated yeah that's a couple years dated so if you look at the latest version of hamil 6.3.0 and you click around and find out when that actually shipped it was back in 2023 so there is a commit four months ago so not like forever ago dead but last release december 2023 so certainly not super active anymore what about sass sass yes sass of course i don't use sass anymore css with superpowers you were big into this one right you even had the sassway.com didn't you oh the sassway.com it was good john i just talked about this like super briefly in that uh front end with friends episode john w long by the way yes sass was really the the first open source project that really got me into i would say more open source i did some libraries around it that are obviously dead now to me and some others may be still using them but yeah sass was really cool because css was static obviously in generating css with sass was cool I think largely though most of the features that I enjoyed in SAS now exist in CSS proper or Tailwind has abstracted those things to make me feel like they're CSS native tooling.

38:24And forgive me because I just don't do any front end work unless it's got Tailwind involved. I just prefer it. So SAS looks like it is still maintained. It says here SAS has been actively supported for over 18 years by its loving core team. so props to them for that. There even is a Mastodon account which tells me that, you know, relatively new. Yeah, copyrights there, 2025. Copyright as of this year. SAS on GitHub. Are there still active commits going on? Here's SAS slash SAS. Three days ago, dependent bot at least. Can't tell you the status of this though. You know, what does this mean? Because there was always the SCSS and SAS world.

39:03I think SAS, similar to Hamill, just went away. Yeah. This is like specifically the SAS library slash executables that I think were written in Ruby and then were eventually rewritten in JavaScript to be NPM installed versus like RVM installed or gem installed. And so, yeah, I think SAS is, these are, I think all these are successful projects. They just, like you said, kind of got brought into the web platform for a certain, in a certain way. hamill didn't but sass certainly did uh compass was even more specific right compass was all about yeah you know it was hard to that compass is now the domain's been taken over i may be getting malware as we speak oh my gosh get out of there man so this is no longer abort abort and we should probably remove that link from our stuff which reminds me youtube's been hitting us up with all kinds of takedowns because of some of our old links on old episodes now point to domains which have malware on them.

40:07Maybe we should do some sort of a link scanner that goes through and checks those links and changes them. It goes to archive.org. I don't know. A lot of work. But when you maintain a website that points at things for 2009 until now, eventually some of those links are going to rot. Oh yeah. A lot of rot going on there. So that's episode one. You know, a mixed bag. episode 2 was the original changelog weekly so that's not really even a it's not even oh gosh episode 3 was about the go programming language so that was very much relevant rob pike episode 3 no we all know where go is now all of us episode 4 is a half hour conversation probably just with you and win about chrome os thor and roar do you know what these are you didn't know what browser was after a few no thor i know what thor is thor was some sort of deployment tool thor was a lot like uh like make no rake rake yeah it was like that yeah it was ruby or loads web roar it's hard to tell jerry where you land none of these tabs are loading thor was um broken links y 'all broken ember who's that fellow what's his name oh yeah um white cats yehuda no oh you had a cast created ember yehuda cats yes that's what i just said you said why cats that's his handle then i said you who to count oh my bad i was thinking when you said that i was thinking the uh the dude that uh that aborted on ruby what's his name why the lucky stiff for whatever reason you said why cats gotcha i thought why the lucky stiff so my bad yeah white lucky stiff aborted on the entire internet and now he's just uh happy jeremy ashinkas i mean five was jeremy ashkenas or ashkenas doc cloud and underscore.js dude i loved underscore.js yes so much it was the way for a very long time it was looks like it's still actively maintained 286 contributors stuff going on i'm like who's using this nine months ago legacy apps that just have it installed already and they're just not gonna why would you do like rip it out might as well just use it yeah i guess so it works i don't think anybody's installing it today but you know jquery is still on like 75 of websites and so those who don't know underscore Core.js is a utility belt library where alongside the dollar sign for jQuery, the underscore was how you access all of these fun functional functions, like map, reduce, filter, et cetera.

43:05You almost said fun, fun, fun. I did. Fun, fun, function. Remember that show? Was that a throwback? Yeah. I mean, it was an accidental one, but yeah. I dig that. Did you see that it was the commercial support is offered by Tidelift? Didn't it get acquired recently? Tidelift did get acquired, but I don't remember by whom or any of the details. What the details are of that. Well, that's cool. I mean, as you're going through these links and stuff, I was just thinking, like, is Hamil an attack factor? Is underscore an attack factor? And you get these older, popularized, like you said, legacy still being used, so maybe under the radar, so to speak, whenever it comes to maintenance and, you know, just oversight from the developers allowing them to be dependencies like is there an attack vector there i think there definitely could be i'm not saying that there is haml obviously is going to be rendering user generated content on some websites as it's a templating engine that oftentimes you know will render something that somebody entered so there could be an attack vector there if you could find some way of exploiting it and then underscore is going to be loading up in people's browsers and you can obviously check it.

44:19Do a lot there. You can do stuff there. So I would say yes. But also mature software underscore has 30 open issues to this day. Most of them are probably people asking like hey is this going to Breaking changes. Is this going to be updated anytime soon? Etc. Alright how about one more? Last one. Last one. oh gosh mongo db episode this is cool seven mongo still going strong right i mean they're a publicly traded company aren't they yeah what's uh that's that's seven this is episode seven yeah i can go to that right now mongo db love by developers 10 gen was the company mongo came out of my gestures and so far don't work anymore for some reason my back swipes like who would turn that off who would turn that off on me you will land at mongodb.com if you are scared of of no sequel run quickly well friends i love notion because notion lets me do everything i want in a single application that lets me invite others to get involved in those organizational workflows processes, collaboration, whatever you want to call it, right?

45:44The cool thing that I love most about Notion is that you can make it your own, meaning you can make operating systems, workflows, you know, processes, standard operating procedures, the way you do things, the way you work, the way statuses work for you. And I don't mean that you got to build this thing yourself from the ground up. No, everything is for the most part, push button, templatable, but you can start from somewhere and end up somewhere else that fits your model. For me, I could be in the middle of doing something, thinking how I could add one more property or one more status to the flow I'm doing things and make the change in real time while doing the work to enable the future work I'm doing to be better, to be easier, to fit me.

46:30That's why Notion is cool. And if you're not using notion well now is the time to do it because there is no shortage of the way ai has helped many many people i love notion ai notion for me is big a lot of stuff in my workspace i've got a personal one i've got one for the changelog and all these things fit into different places in my personal life the way i personally use notion but notion ai lets me search across everything in one single ai interface and it's the coolest but being able to combine your notes docs projects all the things you want to do into a single space that's simply beautiful easy to use well designed on all the platforms whether it's web desktop application ios application android application you name it and notion is there for you and notion is used by over half of fortune 500 companies now i don't know about you, but I'm not anywhere near a fortune 500 company, but they're also used by many, many teams.

47:36And we're one of them. We're one of those teams. These teams that use Notion send less email, they cancel more meetings because, hey, no meeting needed. They save time searching for their work using Notion AI, and they reduce spending on various tools because they consolidate it. And this helps everyone to stay on the same page and help the business stay more focused. So try Notion today for free when you go to Notion.com slash changelog. That's all lowercase letters, Notion.com slash changelog to try the powerful, easy to use Notion AI today. And when you use our link, of course, you're helping us.

48:14So do that. Use our link that lets Notion know, hey, changelog is impressing people. They're sharing what we do well. And you know what? I wouldn't tell you if I didn't. I love Notion. It's awesome. And you should try it out. Again, notion.com slash changelog.

48:34Yeah, my back swipe gestures are not working anymore in my system for some reason. And I'm a little angry about it. I'm a little angry. Well, that could lead us into our next discussion, which is, is this an ad or is this not an ad? You want to tee that one up? Let me get my bearings here real quick, okay? Because somebody cut me deep. Somebody cut me deep. this also was in our Zulip community I believe it was called ad or interview something like that yes let's see here I was mostly sad about the the breaking continuity of you know episode number and name and stuff like that then somebody drops an interviewer an ad and a question mark and it's like come on now man you you ruined the beauty of the list So for context, in our Zulip channels, each new episode gets auto-posted by our system with its episode number and title.