AI Won't Replace Marketers - Christine Buck

0:00Hey, welcome to the CMO Whisper Show. I'm your host, Steve Olenski. Part marketing practitioner, part ad agency veteran, part journalist, I was a writer for Forbes for 10 years. I've had so many insightful conversations over the years with business leaders, to athletes, to celebrities, to of course, CMOs. The only difference now is instead of sharing those insights through written form, I'm doing it this way.

0:26Christine Buck:Before we get started, I'd like to thank one of our sponsors, Minitab. Minitab helps organizations unlock the power of data to drive better performance, smarter decisions, and meaningful impact. Whether teams are just getting started with analytics or advancing into machine learning and data visualization, Minitab's experts and solutions support them at every step. We're kicking off this afternoon with something a little different, but still very on brand for Brandsmart. we are going to have a live taping of The CMO Whisperer, a podcast known for real conversations and honest perspectives from marketing leaders who don't rely on buzzwords or scripts.

1:05Christine Buck:The show is hosted by Steve Alensky, a man who's built a career around asking the real questions CMOs don't always get asked. Joining him today is Christine Buck, CMO of Minitab and AMA board member, as well as our 2024 AMA Chicago Marketer of the Year. Christine brings deep global experience and a sharp data-driven perspective to the table. Please join me in welcoming Steve Alinsky and Christine Buck. Welcome. Hello. Is everybody in the food coma? Raise your hand. Come on. I got you. I got you. We're going to snap you out of that coma or put you deeper into the coma by the time we're done. It is really great to be here.

1:44Christine and I talked maybe a week or two ago. Yeah. It was crazy. So I just want to get right into it. I did not realize, by the way, Chris, my first question, I did not script this, was tell us what Minitab really is about. I didn't know Chris was going to talk about the company. You're going to show a promo. So now I'm really going to put you on the spot. What's something that did not come across in Chris's introduction about the company and what we didn't see on screen? Thanks so much for the really tough question to start. And my wonderful team is right here. I'm so proud to have them here.

2:12So I hope I don't mess this one up, everybody. So one of the things that people don't know about Minitab, it is one of the earliest and oldest data analytics, SaaS data analytics companies founded in 1972. And it has outlasted everyone almost. And that is really incredible. Same owner, founder has never been bought or sold. And now we're on a growth trajectory, a very big one. And so that's why I joined the organization last year. But I'm super proud of that. Our history is phenomenal. And we are still here. Okay, so this whole event we know about is the age of acceleration, blah, blah, blah. I'm not blah, blah, blahing it, Chris.

2:47Don't yell at me. But when you and I spoke a couple weeks ago, you said something that AI still can't communicate like a human. Now, when you said it, I went, well, no shit, but elaborate on that. What does that mean in practical terms for marketers? I think we're marketers. So you can train, obviously you can train language models and so forth. And I think as you get more sophisticated in your AI practice, in your businesses and in your marketing function, you can do a lot with it. However, as marketers and as communicators to other humans, you have to really be thoughtful about what you're putting out there.

3:19You can use AI to get started, but it doesn't quite sound human unless you're managing it and you're, you know, intercepting anything that may trigger a potential buyer or a person, you know, reading your whatever your pieces that you're putting out. And if they sense that it's 100 % AI, they are going to be turned off. So, and I just think it still has a long way to go, but, you know, Claude is doing a lot, I think, to help marketers be more effective in that space creatively. But overall, we, you know, at Minitab, we're being really, we're being very forward moving, you know, with our use of AI.

3:54So you touched on it a little bit. Where are marketers, you know, getting things wrong? Where are they, are they relying too much on AI, for example? I don't think we're relying too much on AI, but I do think we're getting it wrong in the sense of where we're not managing it. We're not, we are, some of us, as we, again, we're learning, we're growing as individuals and we're making mistakes along the way, which is great. We're trying really hard. But when you don't treat AI or chat as one of your employees almost and you're the manager of that tool and overseeing what the outcomes or the outputs will be, then I think that's where we're getting it wrong.

4:26We're not checking it. We're just taking what it says for face value. And I think that's a really big danger. So I think that's really turning over all control to whatever you're trying to accomplish, whatever platform you're on. It's definitely, you know, as I talk to CMOs all the time and it's a fear of, well, I'll just drop it into chat or I'll drop it into Claude and go to lunch kind of thing. And it'll do it for me. That's right. What do you say to people, not that I've ever done that, of course, never. But what do you say to people who, I'll just drop it in, you know, I got this project and it's due on Friday.

4:59I'm going to do it Thursday night because I could just drop it in the chat. I think, you know, that's great. You should definitely leverage it as a force multiplier is what I like to say. But you can't just let it run, you know, on its own. You have to, you just have to really think about it, like with, you know, using your analytical, you know, thinking powers, powers of analytical thinking. You can't be passive. You have to be very, very, you know, assertive and manage it. And that's where we are today. I mean, so many things people have put out. And recently I was working with someone not in marketing in another department that said, oh, well, Chet put this together for me.

5:34Don't you like it? And I said, well, what are you where are your thoughts in here? And the person said, well, I haven't really read it yet. So that's a problem. You know, you have to watch out for other groups, too, that are trying to pull things in. So. So women, you're marketing. You talk to another department. Is that allowed? Of course you have to. I'm not familiar with that concept. OK. Wow. Well, who talks to their CFOs here? Who even knows what their CFO's first name is? Okay, good. That's what I thought. You said something else when we talked. You said AI is not an aggregator. It is an aggregator, I'm sorry, but not an originator.

6:07Yes. So it's a good segue into what we were just talking about. Yeah. It's not original. It's an aggregator. Absolutely. So my perspective is that, you know, and I think this is, again, for all of you, this is not going to be new news. But the way I look at it is AI is not going to originate an idea. is not going to be a creative partner for you. It's going to aggregate information and help pull you along faster than you normally would if you're working on a project. Or you're writing a creative brief if you're trying to develop new sets of a new campaign or something for your teams globally. So it does not originate, but it does help you a lot.

6:44And I think it's amazing what's transpired in the last 24 months. Can you kind of pull back the curtain a little bit for your own team about maybe an example of how They're using AI to make the world better, which in turn makes your life better. Yeah, absolutely. So we just last year, we have our own. We were using different types of different AI tools. We have an AI governance committee, which is great. We follow the same practices that all technology and software companies follow internally. But what I'm most excited about is that the entire organization is now using an enterprise platform, ChatGPT, and we're able to communicate and we're writing our own custom GPTs now.

7:23We're even doing things like, for example, for marketers, we're creating a GPT around persona development. We're using it for, well, in our world, we serve so many different industries. It's very difficult to stay on top of the competitive set. So we're using chat to help us manage, you know, what people are saying and what acquisitions are happening. It's been amazing. It has been a terrific tool. Okay, the flip side, what are you not using AI for? Are you drawing the line in the sand of going, nope, we're not going to use it for AI? yet. So I'll be totally open with you. The next, the frontier for us are two, really two areas, automation.

8:00So using AI to automate our data analytics to help us think through faster, gain faster insights from the myriad of data that we have. And then building agents. So the top, you know, organizations right now are already agentic, how their marketing departments are structured. So the idea is that we will have agents that in the future. And that's something that I'm really excited about. And I want my team. So a win for me is if my team is out developing and thinking about new ideas or going face-to-face with customers because they are very commercial. My marketing group is, they are growth accelerators and I want them out of the office.

8:38I don't want them, you know, toiling away on another creative brief or something. I want them out, you know, learning and growing. And if I can get them an agent to do part of their job, that will be a win. So. So I'm going to go back to the conversation we had again. By the way, we could have just played that. We talked about a lot of things. So I did. We could have just played that recording and you and I could have just stayed home. You said if what marketing produces isn't usable by sales, it breaks. That's verbatim. Yeah. Don't look at me like I made that up. You said that. I did say that.

9:06That's right. I'm trying to remember what in what context that was. Well, I would assume it's in some kind of disconnect, right? If what marketing creates, generates, produces whatever piece of content, whatever it is, if it's not usable, and I think that's the operative word, if the sales team cannot utilize and capitalize. Absolutely. If it doesn't have, so, and I think we've all been there as marketers and depending upon where you are in your career right now, but I think we've all thought about, this is a really neat project that I just worked on. It was a really interesting piece of storytelling or an asset or something or a campaign and it doesn't resonate or it resonates with you, but not necessarily with the sellers.

9:45They're the ones who are on the front end and And they're the ones that have to be out, you know, sharing that story and leveraging whatever momentum you're creating. And I think the point I was trying to make when we were talking was things will really break. Meaning if they get out into the market and they're not able to use the idea or the content or the storyline, it's not going to work. So you have to come back. And I think this gets to something that I fundamentally believe is that you have to have a marketing team that's closely aligned and in deep partnership with your commercial or your customer organization.

10:16It's really important. For those of us in the room, I've been here, where you have that disconnect between marketing and sales. I know it's the oldest question in the book, but can they live together, play together, survive together in sales and marketing? And is it more exacerbated by AI, that dynamic? Yeah, I think it is. I think it can be exacerbated, especially when the sales team or other members of your organization decide that they can become marketers by using AI. So I think that's a big, that's an issue that we all need to tackle as professionals. We can coexist, but I think we have to really understand what the baton or the relay is.

10:51And what the, you know, goes back to really common, you know, Six Sigma practice and agile process, really thinking about what is this job? What is my role? What is my function in my capacity? And what is the handoff to the next partner? And that's how we are working closely with our work. So we're all marketers in a room, right? In one way, shape, or form. Who deals with on a regular basis other departments who all think they know marketing? I want to see every handle. We all know we deal with that, right? It's marketing. I'm a consumer. I know marketing. Okay, sure. Do you go to your surgeon and tell him I'm not operating?

11:24Of course not. I don't anyway. How do you deal with that? When you just mentioned something about dealing with the other departments, there's that human nature, right, of going, it's marketing, it's advertising. I see commercials. I'm a consumer. Why don't you do it this way? So a long time ago, I learned when I was at Accenture, I learned from a really great leader, when people start to get involved or there's scope creep like that, you need to really reframe that as they're very interested, they're very engaged. So that has really helped me. That served me well in my career and it served me well in like going back and trying to seek to understand why they're so involved.

11:59And then the second piece is just, you know, hey, tell me more about what you're trying to accomplish. And so I take that approach too, especially if people are starting to venture off. So what I've learned to do, though, is I've learned to explain to people who are pieces of the organization or different leaders, when they start to tell me, here's what marketing should do next, or I think, you know, I think you and Steve should do a podcast about why, right? So I say, you know what, there's a CFO, like that's the, we're the, we're just like the CFO, we're the accountants of marketing, we're the accountants of messaging.

12:31And, and all of a sudden they say, oh, you're right. I actually don't really know what I'm talking about. They would never question the finance department. So let's all not, let's all stop questioning the marketing group. So. This may be the dumbest question I've ever asked, but it's one of my specialties. Is marketing under more pressure now because of AI? And do you feel that? I'm sure we all feel that in one way, shape, or form of your bosses and your boards and so on going, what do you need all these people for anymore? What do you need this much money in your budget for? Can't, insert name of AI tool, do that for us?

13:03Absolutely. We all deal with that, right? Like, and we all absolutely have to deal with that. So how do you answer that? I answer it by, you know, looking at the growth ambitions of the company. I look at what, where they want to go financially. And then I explain to people, here's what AI will do for you, but here's what, you know, you need to have managers of the, those processes or those functions or whatever the output is, right? And then the other thing is that, you know, using AI, you need to have people who can think. AI is helping you with tactical deployment. It's not really the best strategist just yet.

13:35It is getting better, but it's not the best strategist. That's why we need humans. And so I think the other thing that you have to think about, though, especially for those of you who are starting to really get these types of questions, is we will become more efficient. Talk about your efficiencies, talk about your productivity, but talk about how you are using it to drive more growth. If you can tie any action, and including your new headcount or whatever into a growth story, financial or otherwise, I think you'll win your CEO over. Show of hands, who thinks AI is going to take their job? One hand?

14:08I almost want to ask you, you're the only, literally the only human in this room, assuming you're not AI in the first place, that raised their hand. I love that because... They're being brave. I think it's bullshit, by the way, pardon my French, that AI is going to take our jobs. But do you get asked that by your team? My team hasn't really asked that. I think it's more because we're taught we have open conversations about AI. We're really starting to delve into it. I think it's going to take parts of your job that you're really tired of doing. And I can't tell you how many times, you know, people say, I wish I didn't have to do this one, you know, repetitive task over and over again.

14:42And that's where, you know, we come in and we say, I think as leaders, wouldn't it be amazing if we had something out like, you know, a chat, a GPT or an agent do that for you? But I think the second thing is, is that with AI, if for those people who are not willing to learn and test and grow through it, that's how you're going to lose your job because you don't have a growth mindset. If you are willing to try and to start using these tools, just like we went email. I'm going to date myself when email came on the scene or social media. We all remember those days. You're very old. I'm not following up again.

15:15Yeah. Enlighten us youngsters what that means. So I think that, you know, when you think about those types of questions, I think we have to be really open, but it's just like any other technology, any other disruption. We have to stay ahead of it by embracing it, but also think about all the things that we can stop doing. And that's what I'm most excited about. I know my team is probably thinking of that list right now. Pull back the curtain a little bit again, if you don't mind. What's something you're navigating right now? Doesn't really, you don't have a clear answer yet. What can you share with us on that side?

15:44I'm really, right now I'm navigating taking disparate data sets from many, many different platforms and trying to pull together intent data story, the story of what our marketing is actually doing to drive. I mean, we know it's creating lift. We know that we're doing great things, but that's something that I'm trying to navigate. And that's something I want to navigate using, you know, AI tools. So you're bringing in disparate data from different sources to try to make sense out of it. Yeah. But now you have AI in your life. level. I want to take it and I want to look at correlation and look at predictive analytics around what are we doing and how can our marketing help our organization grow and deepen relationships with our customers.

16:22And I think that's something that we just don't have an answer for yet, but we're working towards it on my team. The future head on a year from now, how different is the marketing world? I don't think you know I was going to ask you this question, by the way, I'm putting you completely on the spot and you're going to kill me outside of here. But what, But just give me that, you know what, Steve, a year from now, blank. A year from now, we are going to be unburdened by, I think, repetitive, redundant tasks. We're going to have agents working alongside of our team members. And I think that we're going to, I think we're going to see a lot of shifts in early career jobs.

16:56I think we're going to see a lot of shifts. I think we're going to see a return back to it's not how you think, but what you think. and your creative, you know, your analytical thinking processes are going to become even more important. So my son is in the room and he's going to kill me for calling him out. My son's in the corner. Josh, raise your hand. Don't give me the finger. Raise your hand.

17:16Christine Buck:Josh. Thank you. What do you say? He's a 21-year-old college student studying marketing and business. And what should he had? And he should not be focused on in your eyes in terms of AI and marketing. What should he not be focused on? Either one. Should or should not be. I think it should be focused on creative thinking, problem solving, solutioning. I think going back into really going deep into data and taking a few courses, even taking maybe a finance course or even, okay, don't kill me for saying this, Josh, but even taking an accounting course teaches you how to analyze numbers. What did you say?

17:52I said accounting. Yeah, actually he's thinking accounting. Okay, good. Yeah. He has to test. But in anything that will teach you how to look at complex systems and then distill that down into a few ideas. So it could be philosophy. It could be, you know, whatever the courses are today. And I will also tell you statistics. Please, anyone who has children who are in school right now or getting ready to go to college, make them take a really good statistics class. Yes. Okay. How's the experiment going so far? So when I was five, I was just going to tell my life story. I didn't get that sled for Christmas.

18:24No. I probably opened up for some questions. I know it wasn't scheduled that way, but can we do questions? I think it sounds great. Are you down for questions? Because they're going to ask a lot better questions than I am. I'm sorry to put you guys on the spot as they're scrambling to get a microphone. I'm sorry, but questions, Rager? We'll do one. What custom you found to be helpful to, you know, solve problems on a daily basis for your team? Well, so we're building our own internal custom agents around persona development. We're looking at competitive intelligence. We're doing some things with finance.

18:52We right now, our organization is still looking at bringing in, you know, other, basically other or other apps and so forth. And those are not quite approved. We have a very strict and very thoughtful governance committee. And so we're moving a little bit cautiously. So we're building our own. And we have a lot of great data scientists, mathematicians and statisticians that work for us. So in our own technology team. So they're building a lot of things. But the other tools that we're using is Codex and, of course, anything that's in the chat GPT realm. Is that internally your chat? Yeah, that's our enterprise platform.

19:29Okay. And you're building, you said agents and having agentics? We will be doing that probably next year, going into the end of this year to next year. We'll probably start testing that. So I hope that answers your question. And we can talk more after this session. I have a question that I get frequently. I'll just throw it out. is a lot of individuals will ask me, you know, can I design or can I make this video or can I use AI to make a creative piece? And I really, right now, I am not very fond of that yet because I don't think it produces the best content and quality. So I just wanted to let you know that.

20:02That's a good, but that's a good, your team has to want to do more of that. Yes. So what do you say to them when they want to use AI to create? They, they're absolutely welcome to test it, but we have, you know, our team gets together and we look at what's created, we review it together, we critique it. And sometimes things we are testing it right now and it just doesn't turn out the way it should. You'll get things, you're trying to make a video and you'll get 25 different clips from five different countries. It doesn't actually even make any sense. So again, it's not a great originator, it's a great aggregator.

20:36So that's the question I get is how do creative teams apply AI? So they're using it for briefs, they're using it for other, just to get scaffolding around a concept. And then they go out and they're, my creatives are still building things on their, you know, with their own, their own artistic skillset. Okay. But at least you're open to them testing them. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, that puts you ahead of a lot of leaders. I will tell you that. So kudos to you for doing that. Yeah. We're, we're all about testing and failing and any more questions? I think we're done. Thank you all. Big round of applause for Christine.

21:05Well, that wraps up another episode of the CMO Whisperer Show. I hope you shared this episode with your friends. And if you have not already, please subscribe to be kept up to date on all the latest episodes. And if you're so inclined, leave me a review on your favorite podcast platform. Thank you.