Andrea Brimmer on Disrupting Finance and Championing Women’s Sports

0:00Hey, welcome to the CMO Whisper Show. I'm your host, Steve Olensky. Part marketing practitioner, part ad agency veteran, part journalist. I was a writer for Forbes for 10 years. I've had so many insightful conversations over the years with business leaders, to athletes, to celebrities, to, of course, CMOs. The only difference now is instead of sharing those insights through written form, I'm doing it this way. My guest this week is Andrea Brimmer, the Chief Marketing and PR Officer at Ally Financial, where she leads the company's integrated marketing strategy and brand transformation. Since joining Ally in 2006 and launching the brand, or I guess say relaunching the brand in 2009, right?

0:44She has redefined what a financial services company could be, putting consumers first and driving bold, disruptive growth. Under her leadership, Ally has earned spots on fast companies, brands that matter. And Bremer herself has been recognized as one of Forbes' most influential CMOs five times. earning a place in the 2024 Forbes CMO Hall of Fame. An absolute trailblazer in the industry. She's also been honored by Adweek, best company again, and she runs it for her creativity, leadership, and cultural impact. Andrew, I know we've known each other. Gosh, it's gotta be almost 10 years, but we got disconnected together.

1:25Thank you for coming on the show. Oh my gosh, of course. It's a pleasure and it's always good to see you. The pleasure is all mine. So I want to jump in right away to the Ally brand and the evolution, right? Right. Looking back and then eventually looking forward. So you helped build the Ally brand from the ground up and you introduced what's called the quote, do it right mantra in 2016. First, let's look back. Pivotal moments from then till now. Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think the birth of the brand itself is one of those things that I will always look at with great pride and incredible fondness because it was an unbelievable opportunity for me and my team.

2:05And you think about when we launched the brand, we launched in the middle of the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. and if you think about the mood of the consumer at the time they had nothing but disdain and and terrible fear at that point in time in terms of what was happening around them and we created something that had never really been conceived of in this category and we brought it to market really quickly you know one of the things that i always talk about is we launched a digital bank the same year that apple launched a smartphone so we took this massive bet that everybody was going to be banking in the palm of their hand.

2:40And so to me, that was a pivotal moment, right? The way that we decided to bring our brand to life and the way that we decided to be digitally native and that as our storefront. I think the second thing for me that I kind of look back at and think about was just the fact that I think we changed the behavior of an entire industry that had largely not been disrupted for over 100 years. And you see so many have evolved towards solving for customer pain points, acting honorably, thinking about making it easier, being more transparent, improving customer centricity. So I take all of those things as big W's and giant kind of pivotal moments for our brand.

3:23I didn't realize the digital bank was launched the same year as the iPhone. Yeah, it's crazy to think. It feels like we've had our iPhones for our whole life, doesn't it? Right. And it also sucks, and I'll say it for you, because that's what grabbed all the headlines. Yeah, definitely. But, you know, it's kind of funny because when we launched the bank, I mean, the original thesis of the company was that the bank was simply going to be a funding source for our auto asset. And it was never meant to be anything more than that. And we realized about a year in that we had created this really prized jewel and that it had the ability to serve a much bigger purpose that is simply fund our auto asset.

4:12And that we had literally changed the category forever. And that really was the catalyst then for the growth of the Ally brand and expansion into other lines of businesses. And really, I think the impetus for what Ally has become and this big belief that financial services are supposed to actually serve customers. And I think that's one of the things that really drove the idea of do it right, which you mentioned a second ago, the golden rule. We really believe with an Ally of living by the golden rule and doing unto others as you would want done to yourself. And I think that's been such a key differentiator for us.

4:50You just inspired me. I put my own copyright, my old copywriter hat on for a second. I'm going to give you a tagline for free. You ready? Please. We're putting the services back in financial services. Yeah. Right. I mean, I'm only half joking, but that's kind of what you're saying. Yeah. And how the industry as a whole has just devolved, not evolved, devolved. Right. I mean, there was no transparency. There was no straightforwardness. There were and still are, unfortunately, exorbitant fees. You know, one of the examples that I'm really proud of at Ally is that a few years ago, we made the decision to waive overdraft fees.

5:27And if you think about and abolish them at Ally, we don't have them. And if you think about overdraft fees, overdraft fees impact those that can least afford them, right? If I'm overdrafting, I'm not overdrafting because I felt like it. I'm overdrafting because I don't have the money to pay. And that was a really seismic shift in the industry. That's what financial services that truly serve is about. And we had this great line when we launched Ally. And the line was, we make money with you, not off you. And that's been one of my favorite lines that we've ever created. And it's been such a guiding North Star for Ally.

6:04And I think it's one of the reasons why we're all really proud to work there. That's one of those, that is anything but broken. Don't fix it. Keep using that line because it's brilliant. Right. Right. It's a mic drop, right? It's a mic drop. And you and I both know we've done this quote long enough where some marketers are going, well, I think we need to refresh that. No, no. Yeah, it's a keeper. So, OK, let's look ahead. Where's it going? Three, five, seven, ten years. Of course, now in the AI age, right? How do we see that not only the brand growing, but just the industry as a whole? Yeah, I think the industry is going to go through really significant metamorphosis, right?

6:42If you just think literally about what's happened to search in the last year and you think about agentic search and who are we marketing to anymore? Are we marketing to people or are we marketing to AI agents that will then recommend your brand? That just that is a mind boggling thing to think about. You think about the complexity of the media environment, the disillusionment of consumers with brands, brands that have made promises that are no longer keeping them around diversity, inclusion and belonging. You think about how distracted consumers are. There's a lot just there to unpack. And then you marry that with the challenges around human capital.

7:28How do you future proof your workforce? How do you ensure that you make space for a constant learning agenda because you can't stand still in this industry and you have to be able to be on this continual learning path along with doing your day job? And so the complexity of these jobs is at a level that I've never seen before. And those are the things that, you know, that I spend the majority of my day, probably the majority of my night thinking about. I do my day job during the day and my night thinking about all of these kinds of things. I know. That's funny. You say that people never say, like, what's your night job?

8:05So thank you for sharing what your night job is. Exactly. next one i want to i want to i'm so interested to talk about the your the allies pledge about words right and i think it was 2023 three years ago three years ago with the pledge and for those who are not familiar it's it's a 50 50 pledge to equal media spending in men's and women's sports by the year 2027 yep right so three years in what are we seeing three years in we are seeing not only seismic change inside of Ally, but also in the industry. One, we are within what I call spitting distance of hitting the pledge, very, very close to hitting it, and we'll definitely hit it ahead of the 2027 objective.

8:51Two, I think you've seen just an incredible amount of inertia around women's sports, and I'm really proud of, I think, being one of the brand architects that has created that inertia and shine a light on awareness for other brands to get involved and to look at this as a space that has incredible opportunity and has incredible value. Three, incredible business results for us. Massive brand value growth, exceptional favorability and sentiment. 65 % of everybody come to our website is female. Customers that are fans of female sports are six times more likely to open an ally account and grow their relationship with us.

9:30One of only four banking brands that grew in terms of trust last year and grew the fastest. And so I think we're seeing nothing but a really good hunch that we had and saw around a big corner and it's paying off. Well, you just kind of, I think, answered one of my next questions about the biggest surprise we're learning. But I want to give you a chance to repeat that stat about trust. Say that again. One of only four banking brands that grew last year in terms of consumer trust and growing faster than any other banking brand. That's remarkable. And the other stat that I'm really proud of is that our brand, so brand finance measures industry brand valuation.

10:08Our brand valuation last year grew 32%. The category dropped three percentage points. So think about that as a 35 % swing. And, you know, that's incredible. Our brand valuation in the last 10 years has grown 500%. Last year was our biggest jump ever. Now, I can't say all of that is because of what we did in women's sports, but I certainly think that platform enabled us to punch above our weight and carve out a very differentiated space. And it's certainly what has landed us on the Fast Company Brands That Matter list for the last three years. And by the way, we're the only financial services company that's ever made that list and ever made it for three straight years.

10:53Wow, that's remarkable and a massive feather in yours and your teams and everybody's cap. I could now be more proud of Ally, the team. And the thing that I love about the pledge is that it is a pride point across the organization. This isn't a marketing thing. It wasn't a PR stunt. It is something that the entire company all the way up to our CEO are incredibly proud of. And when you've got a CEO on an earnings call talking about the status of our 50-50 pledge, you know a company has got it deep-seated in their soul that this is the right thing to do. And so, big pride point. Yeah, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I'm so glad you said it's not a PR stunt because I can guarantee you that was the initial even even three years in people are still thinking this is just a ploy.

11:36You know, Steve, I played soccer at Michigan State. I'm a varsity soccer for four years. I'm a product of Title IX. When we made the pledge, it was the 50th anniversary of Title IX. Title IX, like a lot of other protections, are under siege. And so we wanted to do something that was real and something that was meaningful and something that was actually going to make change. and the investment has been one of those things that's done so. And if you think about it, right, not only have we done it on the media side, but being able to get the NWSL championship game moved to primetime, first time ever that a women's championship game was moved to primetime as a result of our partnership with the league and CBS, that's meaningful.

12:18That's real. That's not PR stuff. A multimillion-dollar deal with Disney where 95 % of the commitment went to women's sports and Disney spent six months moving programming around to move women's sports into better and prime time slots as a result of our deal. That's real. That's not PR stunt. Investing, being the founding partner in Unrivaled, being on the sleeve of every kit of NWSL, now being the new financial services partner of WNBA. Those are all real and meaningful things. And then supporting emerging media platforms like Remedia and the GIST and Just Women's Sports and And all of these things that are the what I would call kind of a shoulder content that's building the ecosystem around women's sports.

13:01Those are all real acts. And so, you know, deeds, not words. And I feel like we're doing the deeds. I'm going to use a word. You're probably uncomfortable, but I'll say it in the context of not just you, but the entire team. And that's legacy. And what you're creating is that legacy that you're going to leave behind. Yeah. And that's, I will say for you, that's amazing. I'm very proud of you and the work you're doing because that's, I think so many of us, and I don't want to get on my soapbox, but realize the impact we can have, right? Because, oh, it's only marketing. Oh, it's only a commercial.

13:32It's an effort. No, it's really not. Well, thank you for that. I appreciate it. And I'm humbled by it. I have an incredible team that is, you know, deeply committed to doing this work as well. and I'm a big believer that you come into these positions and we have a platform. I mean, the reality is the CMOs, we have a platform and we can garner a lot of attention and we can make real change. And if we waste that platform, that's on us. And I've never been one to want to waste a good platform. And for me, this is this melding of a personal passion and a real business opportunity and to be able to see the creative value that it's created for our company and also the meaningful change that it's making in the world is probably the thing that I've been able to do in my career that I'm the most proud of.

14:22As you should be. Thank you. As you should be. And I'll say it for you. So let me move to streaming and content if I can. Sure. I know Ally is really big in owning, right? You're into owning your own content, not just sponsoring. Right. Side Hustlers, I think is one. Yeah. Really proud of that relationship with Hello Sunshine. Yeah. Talk a little bit about that. And then we'll segue into why you believe so much in owning the content, not just sponsoring it. Yeah. We, we, you know, Sarah, Sarah Haddon and the team and Sarah Ray over there, just absolutely incredible partners. And, and I think we, we both had an analogous vision around how could a brand and a production company come together to create meaningful content.

15:03And we created Side Hustlers two seasons so far that have run on Roku. We're also working on another piece of content right now called For the W, which is the story of female athletes. And the reason I love this notion of owning content is it gives you the opportunity to find authentic ways to do your storytelling, but also to provide value to the consumer. And that's what content should really do, right? It should reward, provide value, entertain. I don't like just those gratuitous insertions into content of like, oh, there's this character in a show doing this like cheesy, awkward look at the Ally app, right?

15:43It feels forced. It feels forced and it's not, it doesn't add value to the viewer. And so for us, this creation of content is a place where we can control the value. we can help shape the narrative and we can actually not only further our brand, but then also work with great partners like the Hello Sunshines of the world that we know has this long history of everything they touch turns to gold. And so that's really been the thesis behind how we've approached our content and a lot of the things that we're doing from a streaming perspective. Do you think, I'm going to put you somewhat on the spot here, but I'm a CMO and I'm thinking about content.

16:24Should I look for that happy medium between owning and sponsoring it? Or does it really matter? Does it depend on other factors? I think the happy medium, look, we do product placement. We partner with MEI. We do product placement. We have three placements this season, for instance, in Hacks. And they've done phenomenal for us. And so we look for those opportunities as well. If you've got the ability to, and a lot of brands have done this. I mean, we're not unique in this approach. But if you have the opportunity to go in and actually create and kind of monetize your own content, that gets you that much further along.

16:57I believe that's where the industry is going. I believe that's how a lot of advertising is going to be able to break the ad-free model and how you're going to really be able to capture the attention of consumers. And so to me, it's as much get your sea legs and understand it now so that you can be really good at it when it's the norm and not the exception. And it goes without saying, but I'll say it. When you own it, you mentioned the control word. And that's really, then you can just go and test and learn and adjust on the fly. Right. Exactly. It's all about, I'm a big fail fast person. If you're going to go into things and you've got to learn, fail fast, iterate and move on.

17:35And our foray into content, we learned a lot of things with what we did with Side Hustlers. We learned a lot in terms of distribution, promotion, all of those things. We'll apply those now to For the W and future content that we do. and it just makes it better and it makes us better. So speaking of learning, you did your, I can't remember what it was, your first Superbowl ad in streaming? Yeah, we did a couple of years ago. It actually went really well. And it was a really, it was a fun ad. You know, we promoted our savings bucket. We created an actual giant bucket in the middle of the desert and dropped things into it.

18:09And we had a whole promotion around it. So we were able to do a lot of lead collection. And, you know, the price point was right for us. We're just not the kind of brand that's got the budget to do a normal Super Bowl ad, unfortunately, and probably never will. And so for us, it felt also like authentic to who we are, because we're always preaching about saving. And we're always preaching about being smart with your money. And so for me to go spend$15 million to do Super Bowl ad seems antithetical to the things that we preach to our consumer. So there was this there was like this genuine authenticity, authenticity, just in terms of the way that we approached it, and how we showed up as well that I really liked.

18:47I love that you're so cognizant. And when I see you, I mean, the whole company or your marketing team is so cognizant of the antithetical look it would have if you ran a traditional Super Bowl spot, because the consumer knows more than we think they know. Yeah, they do. And they're going to go, wait a minute, you spend how much on a Super Bowl? Right. Don't tell me how to save my money if you're going to go drop that much money on a Super Bowl ad. Yeah. So I love that you have that cognitive thought of, wait a minute, optics here. Yeah. It was a big part of the conversation. And that was a big part of the message as we talked about it.

19:21And we really liked that aspect of it. And so hopefully we'll get the opportunity again. Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm sure you will. But did it show you anything? Did it teach you anything about consumer attention or brand storytelling? Like, what are some? And I'm going to ask you again to speak to CMOs who are thinking, oh, I didn't even realize we can do a streaming super robot. I thought there was a whole broadcast. Neither did I, candidly. And I've been at this game for a long time, right? So that in and of itself was an incredible learning. The big audience, which we really liked. Harder to garner attention on, you know, like they don't, there's no polling for the things that ran in streaming only.

20:00So you don't get the PR attention around it the same way. We had to create our own earned media through what we did with the sweepstakes. And that was a little bit of a heavier lift. And still there's pluses and minuses to it. Big audience. You know, if I recall correctly, it was a huge audience. I think even over 17 million for streaming alone. So it was a good audience. It was a big reach and impact moment. But a heavier lift in terms of creating more of that ripple effect, which is certainly what the traditional Super Bowl ads do. Right, right. Right. And you have to be aware of that going in that we're not going to get the same metrics.

20:37Right. Absolutely. You have to look at it. We've got this thing, Steve, that we call our visibility moments as part of our media strategy. And our visibility moments are when can we go out and just reach a big piece of media, even if it's a one and done. A couple of years ago, that Adele concert that Adele did in L.A. And that was a big visibility reach moment. And we were lucky enough to pick up a couple of spots in that. And those are the ways that we've been able to punch above our weight and feel bigger than we really are. You know, like I'm never going to be able to own college game day. You know, I just don't take my whole damn budget.

21:14But if I can get those big moments and get like five or 10 of them during the course of the year, it helps us feel bigger than we really are. And it's been a really instructive and big part of our strategy. Yeah, and it shows. It really does. As a consumer with no real vested interests, I see the work you guys do, and it comes across loud and clear. And I say that with complete transparency. Thank you. You know, we're in a crazy category. Annual spend in the financial services category is$55 billion a year. We're less than 2 % of that share of voice. but I would argue we're probably one of the louder marketers in the category.

21:52I was talking to a colleague of mine who's in the financial services category, CMO, and she's like, just tell me, how much you guys spent? She's like, you got to spend a billion dollars a year, right? And I'm like, not even close. And she was shocked. She's like, you feel like a billion-dollar-a-year brand. That had to make you feel amazing. It does. It does because she's a multi-billion-dollar brand in the category. So it made me feel really good. And I have such an awesome team. They're so creative. They're so smart about their use of media. They root out just incredible opportunities. And then the way they activate is next level.

22:26And, you know, I always joke. I'm the looks. They're the brains. Well, my guess I'm neither, but that's another story. OK, this one's interesting as hell for me about that balancing act between data and instinct, right? Especially in AI. Oh, my God. Right. As a CMO, like how do you and I guess to your team, right? Go, wait a minute. Hold on. I know that data is saying one thing, but my gut says this or vice versa. Where's the balancing act? I'm a big golden gut CMO and I make that very well known. In fact, you'll laugh at this, but we had a new CFO that started two years ago. And in my immersion session with him on our analytics page, it was kind of a how we measure.

23:11And we listed, you know, like five things. And the first four were analytical ways we measure. And point five was Andrea's golden gun. And he laughed and I said, I'm not kidding. And I said, things either strike me or they don't. And if they don't strike me, we're not going to do well. And if they do, I've been doing this for a long time. Man, you know, Steve, I'm going on 30 years. And I think one of the hallmarks of my career has been my ability to see around corners and to just intuitively feel things. And I think as CMOs, you have to demonstrate the bravery to do those things, right? Give you a good example.

23:53We're a founding partner of Unrival, the basketball league that Breonna Stewart and Nafisa Kallar created. We started talking to those guys three years ago before they had almost any plans whatsoever. And we said to them right away, we're in. So you just keep us posted as these plans come together. We're coming in as a founding partner. And their inaugural season, I mean, they absolutely crushed it. Numbers were huge. The social media was incredible. The buzz around it was incredible. Well, you know, I wouldn't have done that if I looked at the metrics because there were no metrics. There were no.

24:26That's it. So you just have to, I think, lead from the front and demonstrate to that, that to your team. And if stuff doesn't work, I'm the first one to say it didn't work. I had a hunch and it didn't work. But you also have to have, and you clearly do, the autonomy. Yeah. The fail. Yeah. I'm lucky. Look, I've had six CEOs in 17 years that I've been at Ally. two since I've been in the CMO chair. Both have been the type of leaders that very much believe in giving me the space to do what I need to do. And that is the big reason I've always stayed an ally, to be honest with you. But I think what they appreciate is that when we're right on a hunch, we'll take a victory lap.

25:12When we're wrong, I will be the first one to say, bad investment. Here's what we learned from it. Here's what we lost. Here's what we're going to do better next time. And I think that's really gained a lot of credibility for myself and the team because we're not painting everything with these rose-colored glasses. And we're also not trying to hide things. Remind me and us, how long have you been in the CMO seat at Ally? 11 years. You realize the anomaly that is. Yeah, I do. But I brought it up for that reason. You just spoke to the two CEOs you've had. That's not a coincidence. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, you never know, right?

25:46Especially when a new CEO comes in. But I'm a big believer that the more aligned you are with being able to execute the CEO's vision and open lines of communication and clearly understanding that and being able to have the respectful dissent and the open, honest conversations, it makes the relationship so much stronger. And also recognizing, like, at the end of the day, they're the CEO. And and so I think that's the kind of relationship that I've had with both. Michael now knew in his chair and I've really he's been an it's been an awesome transition for me because I can have really honest conversations with him and I can push back when I don't agree.