In short
Pressure and decision-making from boxing to business, using philosophy and mental frameworks. Jonathan Hamm compares ring pressure (life on the line, split-second decisions) with boardroom pressure (leadership, “mastermind” teams, fast judgment). He argues confidence comes from full preparation, but overtraining/overthinking can cause psychological collapse. He recommends studying philosophy/psychology and normalizing nervousness and fear as part of achievement.
Guest backgrounds
Jonathan Hamm, former U.S. #1 ranked amateur boxer and 2011 U.S. national champion; super heavyweight; Olympic team alternate for 2012 London. Also played college football with a shot at the New Orleans Saints; later trained MMA alongside Jon Jones.
Key claims
Nervousness is “controlled fear”; mental toughness is training your nervous system via new challenges; self-doubt is more dangerous than overconfidence; studying great leaders reduces fear of failure.
Notable examples
helicopter “landing” feeling; John Jones pre-fight routines; Napoleon Hill “mastermind”; Andrew Carnegie/steel; Julius Caesar depression at age 29; Ford/Rockefellers; Julius Caesar/Alexander the Great; da Vinci as dinner guest.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOIntroducing Jonathan Hamm
0:46 to 1:54
Introduction of guest Jonathan Hamm and his diverse athletic background.
“But what makes Jonathan different isn't just his path, it's how he thinks about it.”
The Feeling Before The Fight
1:55 to 3:03
Jonathan shares the intense emotions and fears before stepping into the ring.
“It's the same feeling I get every time I'm walking into that ring.”
Managing Fear and Nervousness
3:04 to 4:47
Discussion on how fighters manage their fear and nervousness before a match.
“Like even, not to mention, like, you know, John Jones, you know, the greatest fighter to ever live.”
Comparing Fighting and Business Pressure
4:48 to 6:04
Jonathan compares pressures faced in boxing with those in business environments.
“You got to elaborate on that one a little bit.”
Preparation Versus Mindset
6:05 to 7:54
Exploring the balance between preparation and mental readiness in high-pressure situations.
“First and foremost, the thing about fighting, especially with whether it's boxing and mixed martial arts, all your decisions have to be made within the 10th of a second.”
Philosophical Insights in Fighting
7:55 to 10:41
Jonathan discusses how philosophy and mental clarity could enhance performance in fights.
“And like I said at the top, we're going to get into how you look at things from a philosophical standpoint.”
Mindset and Imposter Syndrome in Business
10:42 to 14:03
Discussion on the prevalence of imposter syndrome among C-suite executives and its psychological impact.
“So how do you train your mind and others, but you specifically, how would you recommend yourself?”
The Prevalence of Imposter Syndrome in the C-Suite
14:03 to 16:10
Discover how imposter syndrome affects C-level executives and the importance of education.
“And once again, you know, it's all a part of it.”
Developing Mental Toughness
16:10 to 18:11
Learn what mental toughness means and how to cultivate it in your life.
“What does it actually, what does that term mean to you, mental toughness?”
The Role of Religion and Learning
18:11 to 20:48
Explore how studying various religions can enhance understanding and connection with others.
“And we all know history is filled with, and every sport you can think of, of those who were given, excuse me, so much God-given talent, right?”
Show all 15 chapters
The Dangers of Self-Doubt
20:48 to 23:13
Understand why self-doubt can be more detrimental than overconfidence.
“And by me studying religion, it getting me closer to more and more people because I'm able to understand different people's backgrounds.”
Random Five: Personal Insights from Jonathan
23:13 to 27:28
Get to know Jonathan through a fun segment of random questions about preferences and experiences.
“That kind of get my energy up, you know, like, hey, you know, and that's kind of expected in a way because me being from where I'm from and me having somewhat of a music background.”
Personal Growth Reflections
28:04 to 29:05
Learn how personal environment reflects self-organization and growth.
“He said, you could tell a lot about somebody by the way they keep their house and the way they keep their car.”
Motivation and Support Systems
29:06 to 29:57
Discover the importance of personal motivation and family support.
“Would you say you're more competitive with yourself or with others?”
Inspiration from Leonardo da Vinci
29:58 to 31:11
Explore why Leonardo da Vinci is a figure of inspiration and his diverse talents.
“And I know this is going to be hard for you to pick just one, but if you could sit down with anyone, pass your present over dinner, who is it and why?”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Jonathan Hamm:Hey, welcome to the CMO Whisper Show. I'm your host, Steve Olenski. Part marketing practitioner, part ad agency veteran, part journalist, I was a writer for Forbes for 10 years. I've had so many insightful conversations over the years with business leaders, to athletes, to celebrities, to of course, CMOs. The only difference now is instead of sharing those insights through written form, I'm doing it this way. My guest today is Jonathan Hamm, a former number one ranked amateur boxer in the United States and 2011 U.S. national champion. Jonathan was one of the top super heavyweight fighters of his era and an Olympic team alternate heading into the 2012 London Games.
0:44Jonathan Hamm:Now, before that, he was a standout college football player who earned a shot with the New Orleans Saints and later transitioned into mixed martial arts training alongside such legends as Jon Jones. But what makes Jonathan different isn't just his path, it's how he thinks about it. Because beyond the physicality, beyond the competition, Jonathan has developed a deep interest in philosophy, identity, and the mental frameworks that shape how we perform, adapt, and evolve. From the ring to business to life, this is a conversation about pressure, decision-making, reinvention, and the mind behind it all.
1:26Jonathan Hamm:Jonathan Hamm, my newfound brother. Welcome to the show. Hey, my brother. First of all, I just want to say thank you so much for having me on, man. It's an absolute pleasure to be on your show. We hung out at Aspen a couple weeks ago as we're recording this, dude, and we're like kindred spirits. So the more I learn about you, the more you inspire me. I'm impressed. I think my audience, which there's so many leaders, are going to take so much from you, and I want to just jump right in. Right? Yeah, let's do it. Take us into the ring first What does it actually feel like Right before you step into that ring When everything is on the line Wow, well, first and foremost When I first got into fighting With boxing in general One of my coaches, he was a soldier in Vietnam And this is what he told me, he said Hey, you ever see on those movies Whenever you see those helicopters flying through the Everglades You know, flying through all those trees and stuff You know, right before that helicopter Land in the middle of that battlefield And the soldiers step out That ride on that helicopter right before, you know, the chop is getting ready to land.
2:31It's the same feeling I get every time I'm walking into that ring. So, you know, what people don't realize, fighting is not a sport. It ain't a game. When you're going into the ring, you're putting your life on the line. There's a chance that you may not walk out the same person. You know, people die. All right. You can, you know, you can come out a different person, you know, depending on the wrong punch or whatnot. But yeah, how I describe it, you know, of course, it's a very, you know, nerve-wracking feeling. Nervous, a little, you know, some people are scared, you know, but it's a controlled nervous feeling.
3:03Jonathan Hamm:Right. Some of the greatest fighters I've been around, they always express how nervous they are. Like even, not to mention, like, you know, John Jones, you know, the greatest fighter to ever live. You know, he has a whole routine. He goes through, you know, speaking to God and, you know, and he has this thing in which he wiped the floor. He wiped his arms. He wiped his legs. You know, he's pretty much asking God to like pretty much, you know, to get rid of these things. You know, the nervous system in my legs, the nervous system in my arms, the nervous system in my body, you know. So, you know, a lot of fighters go through it, but we deal with it different.
3:35So, yeah, definitely a nervous feeling.
3:36Jonathan Hamm:Is there a sense of fear or is that too strong? You know, like I said, it's a controlled fear because you know that one thing about it is as nerve-wracking as it is, You can't accomplish nothing in this world without your heart racing fast, without being nervous, without being scared, without, you know, without being a little afraid. It's the part of it. You know, if you sit inside of your comfort zone, if you're a person that sit inside your comfort zone, no matter whether it's fighting, whether it's anything in life, you know, you won't achieve nothing. When it comes to accomplishing great things, even fighting, you know what I'm saying?
4:05It's somewhat the same thing. There's always a little, you know, nervousness in it.
4:09Jonathan Hamm:Is there a difference, Jonathan, between that nervousness and fear and then, quote, kind of being ready in that moment? Is there like a fine line you walk? Yeah. One thing about it, anytime you go into locker rooms when it comes to the back of these arenas, you see a lot of fighters sleep. Me, I would take a nap. I'd be so nervous that I would take a nap. Some fighters would be sleep. Some fighters would be nervous, throwing up, going to the bathroom, psyching themselves out. Some people need a whole lot of people around them, giving them positive affirmations. It differs with every person. And to be honest with you, the crazier you are, the less nervous you get.
4:49Some of those people...
4:51Jonathan Hamm:You got to elaborate on that one a little bit. Well, you know, what can I say? Sadly, in the fight game, there's people who lose their mind because fighting is a dangerous game. And there's certain people who have taken so much damage, brain damage there's certain there aren't there's certain people it's i i don't definitely want to use the word there's so people who's so ignorant when it comes to the fight game they're not because they don't know what's the consequences that can happen within the fight game so you know not saying all fighters is nervous but for the most part you know when you're going in there to you know there's a grown man standing across you a grown woman whatever it is all right his he is paid to inflict pain upon you and put you out of your misery.
5:34Once again, this man standing across from you, he's been training for you. He's trained to put you out of your misery, even if it kills you. We know that. So of course, with that, it comes definitely a lot of butterflies.
5:45Jonathan Hamm:So that pressure, right? It's just got to be so, I can't even imagine how intense the pressure is, right? But now that you're kind of also into the business world, when you look at executives, for example, making high stakes decisions. Is there a comparison like in the boardroom pressure versus getting in a ring pressure? How do you kind of juxtapose or look at that? First and foremost, the thing about fighting, especially with whether it's boxing and mixed martial arts, all your decisions have to be made within the 10th of a second. You know, decisions have to come fast. But one thing about sports in general, whether it's fighting or sports, remember, you know, I had a, I was a greater, you know, maybe I was a greater boxer, but my favorite sport was definitely football.
6:26without a doubt. That was my passion, you know. But when it comes to just sports in general, when they're approaching the business world, it definitely helps you when it comes to leadership and understanding, you know, who to follow, you know, what to follow. And think about it, you can learn from anybody. You can learn and grow from anybody. You can learn from a bomb in the street. There's somebody that can always, you know, teach you. But definitely within sports, where to teach you more than anything with me when it comes to the business world is definitely leadership because we can't do nothing alone.
6:55All right. If we want to achieve something, it's going to take a lot of like-minded individuals putting their minds together. One of my favorite books is, of course, it's, you know, should you guys have to think and grow rich with Napoleon Hill. And he talks about, he talks about creating the mastermind. All right. And for instance, Andrew Carnegie, for instance, Andrew Carnegie, he knew nothing about iron or steel. He know nothing about it. But one thing about Andrew Carnegie, he was, he was able to put the right people around him. okay to help invest into his dream he was a businessman he knew nothing about steel anytime you look up Andrew Carnegie you hear about his company you hear about him American Steel all right he knew nothing whatsoever about steel but he was able to put the right people around him in order to create that mastermind so it's about you know team leadership you know having to trust one another you know when it's a little tough too the same thing is Ford back in the day and the Rockefellers and, you know, these great, these great leaders of all time.
7:49It's all about putting, you know, everybody using the best of each other. No ego. So yeah.
7:54Jonathan Hamm:Right, right. Exactly. And like I said at the top, we're going to get into how you look at things from a philosophical standpoint. We're going to get to that soon. But I kind of want to build up to that. I want to talk about now the preparation versus pressure topics, right? In your opinion, how much of handling pressure really comes down to preparation versus mindset oh man yeah so without a doubt it truly goes both ways my brother it's it's a crazy feeling especially in the fight game you know i can't speak with any other sport but my experience in the fight game it definitely goes both ways for instance you're way more confident i feel like you very very confident when you fully prepare you fully prepare you was able to train you know on schedule you work real hard you you follow up your diet, you're doing two and three sessions a day for months and months at a time.
8:43You know, the confidence comes with that. It's like, oh man, I can break down walls. At the same time, fighting is so psychological. It's so mental. All right. That whole time, you're still thinking about your opponent. Okay. That is beating you down. You're thinking about your opponent like every day, you're going to sleep. You got to go to sleep every night thinking about, what would I do if you do this? What would I do if you do this? If you do this, what would I do?
9:05Jonathan Hamm:Oh, my God. That is the worst part of the fight. Going to sleep every night, thinking about your opponent every single day. But though physically, it's definitely an advantage, 1 ,000%. But psychologically, sometimes it can kind of work against you because you had so long to work on the fight. On the other hand, a lot of times these fighters get the last-minute notice, two days before the fight, a week before the fight, a couple weeks notice. Like, I've somewhat been in that situation in the amateurs, and I spoke to a lot of great fighters who have been in that position. The nervousness is kind of because, like, hey, what I got to lose?
9:39You know, hey, I didn't, you know, I didn't train the right way. Right. I didn't, you know, if something don't happen, if something don't go right, oh, well. So it's kind of going into the octagon of the ring, like, oh, well, whatever happens, happens. So, yeah, it can definitely work both ways.
9:51Jonathan Hamm:Can you be, in your opinion, can you be overprepared? Oh, without a doubt. You can definitely be overprepared by definitely overtraining, especially when you're above the age of 35 or above the age of 30. You can definitely overtrain and definitely from a psychological, mental standpoint. You know, a lot of people lose the fight before they even get in there because of overthinking the situation, being an overthinker. And I think the reason why, you know, I excelled as an amateur. All right. But I don't think I was going to ever be a good pro because, number one, mentally, I wasn't in there. because I was a person who overthought everything.
10:26I'm an overthinker, you know, and sometimes you can overthink your way into the wrong thing and that plays into the psyche when it comes to, you know, your nervous system or whatnot. But without a doubt, definitely physically from overtraining and definitely psychologically from overthinking.
10:41Jonathan Hamm:Interesting. That's really interesting. So how do you train your mind and others, but you specifically, how would you recommend yourself? But how do you stay clear when everything around you is like chaos? Oh, man. Well, me in particular, you know, if I had if I had to go back in time. All right. I don't believe in mistakes. Things happen for a reason. Everything in my life was supposed to happen for a reason. But if I had to go back another 10, 15 years, I definitely would have took philosophy more serious and definitely clinical psychology and therapy. All right. Because some of the greatest fighters of all time, you know, they take advantage of those situations, you know.
11:19And me, by learning and studying and getting mental help, I have to realize, like, some of our greatest conquerors of all time, you know, they had the same feelings. Being nervous, being scared, you know, fear of failure. It's a part of it. For instance, Julius Caesar, okay? Julius Caesar, he walked up to Alexander the Great Statute, all right? And Alexander the Great Statute stated, Here lies a man who conquered the world at 29 years old. 29 years old. Julius Caesar saw that and went into full depression.
11:49Jonathan Hamm:Man, here he is. He conquered the whole world at 29 years old. And here I am, you know, 31. They barely know me in my own console, in my own neighborhood. Julius Caesar went into deep depression. You feel me? But, you know, Julius Caesar, he's very known for educating himself, reading a bunch of books. Him and Napoleon both, they're both avid readers, avid self-educators. So, you know, even the greatest people of our time went through the same fears of failure. The difference between us and them is they had more than a lot. They was really, you know what I'm saying? Like when it comes to brutality and death and mayhem and, you know, those were different times.
12:27But these guys was human beings as well. So if I would have took that more serious back in the day as far as like me educating myself on whether it's history and philosophy and great leaders, It would have put things in perspective for me like, hey, this is normal. If you want to achieve anything great, it's supposed to happen this way. You're supposed to feel this feeling. It's okay to feel nervous.
12:48Jonathan Hamm:So I was going to ask you how, if you had this mindset back then, how would it have changed you? And you kind of already answered that, but I want to get a little more granular. Do you think if you had this philosophical mindset, then would it have changed things like your approach to training or the way you fought? Without a doubt. Oh, yes, without a doubt. It definitely would have changed things. Towards the end of my career, you know, I dipped in mixed martial arts, but I didn't compete. I trained for three years. And towards the end of my career, I got to be around some really great champions.
13:15And I realized, man, these guys get just as nervous as I am. You know, all these different world champions, and I got to find out it was pretty normal. Once again, I was overthinking, you know. And at the same time, I came from the world of football. So I had some of the ego with me. Yeah, I'm a badass. I'm a badass. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They got the big muscles. You know. But there's a difference when you're in the fight game. These guys are playing. These guys are trying to put you out of your misery. So the more I got to travel and train with great fighters who fought in those massive arenas, who fought in the O2 arena, who fought in Madison Square, who fought in some of the most legendary, iconic arenas of all time, they all feel the exact same thing, but they dealt with it different.
13:58Yeah.
13:59Jonathan Hamm:Kind of overlaying that into the world of business, right? it's very similar in that because I know because I talk to C-level people all the time that overthinking is very prevalent there as well as well as something that's called imposter syndrome right and I'm sure you're familiar with that where you basically are not you start to doubt your own ability you start to doubt your own knowledge it's extremely prevalent in the C-suite it's probably something that most people don't think would ever happen but that's all you know mind, right? Your approach philosophically, right? And once again, you know, it's all a part of it.
14:36The more people, you know, on their free time continue to educate themselves, because when it comes to business, we all kind of run off the Machiavellian tactics in a way, all right? We all trying to, you know, I'm not saying get power, but looking to have a step up in the world, whether it's, you know, get a promotion, you getting this new job, because anytime we get a promotion, And in a way, we're kind of taking somebody's job in a way, you know. So, you know, as we level up and as we grow, you know, I think we just got to continue to ground ourselves with education. If you truly want to level your way up, I feel as though studying the greatest people of all time, studying philosophy, studying science, when you study people around you, it'll get you more comfortable with, hey, these feelings are pretty normal.
15:21Okay. You know, Julius Caesar had these feelings. Napoleon had this feeling. You know, Genghis Khan had these feelings, getting nervous, getting scared. You think about some of our great civil rights leaders of our time, our great abolitionists, you know, think about what they went through in their life. You know, what we go through in life, we're just trying to get a job promotion. Some of these people was fighting for other people alive. And their lives was on their own. And their own lives. As afraid as you are, and sometimes you wanted to question yourself, these human beings, these great people in our past, they went through the exact same thing because the human brain hasn't changed.
15:53The human, you know, technology has changed without a doubt. All right. But the human brain hasn't changed. These other human beings has dealt with the same thing. So I feel as though for me in particular, the more we study great leaders in our past, I feel as though the more courageousness it gives us.
16:09Jonathan Hamm:So everybody talks, at least, you know, I know about mental toughness, right? What does it actually, what does that term mean to you, mental toughness? Well, overall, mental toughness, like first and foremost, some of us is just born with it. All right. Some of us is just lucky. But I also think it's something that we can also work on. All right. There's something that we can train. If you live a life now, if you live a life and you always was in a nice, comfortable comfort zone, you know, you had you never had that feeling of being nervous, being scared and, you know, having to risk something like you have to train your comfort zone.
16:42You have to train your nervous system, you know, and that's by continuing to level up and create new challenges for yourself. You know, if you just stay into that lackadaisical, you know, waiting on praying. There's a lot of people who sit on the couch every day and pray to God, pray things that happen. God, please give me this. God, please give me that.
17:01Jonathan Hamm:God, you know, the man upstairs, he has common sense, too. A lot of times God like, you know what? Meet me halfway. Right. And in order to meet me halfway, you got to get out of that couch and you got to fight for something. All right. Yes, you're going to be a little nervous. Yeah, you're going to be a little scared. Yeah, your heart is going to be racing a little bit. You're going to have those butterflies. But I promise you, you know, if you come up out of it, you're going to feel as great as you ever felt in your life. Because the best I ever felt in my life was definitely, you know what I'm saying?
17:27I feel as though the best I ever felt in my life was winning a fight. There's nothing greater than that than winning a fight. It's nothing greater. All right. The second thing I ever felt that's even more greater than that because it's even long lasting. And that's giving to people, giving to the homeless, just helping change people's lives. You know, with all that being said, all this, you know, when it comes to just preparing for mental toughness, you know, You definitely have to just train your nervous system and just figure out what am I doing it for? What makes you happy? Is you doing this for yourself?
17:54When I was winning fights for myself, I was on a high for a day or two. But when I started doing things for other people, I was sacrificing nervous because I knew the things I was doing was going to help other people. It gave me more courageousness. It gave me more confidence to approach my goals, win or lose.
18:10Jonathan Hamm:One thing I definitely want to ask you is about, you know, I'm a big sports fan. You're a big sports fan. And we all know history is filled with, and every sport you can think of, of those who were given, excuse me, so much God-given talent, right? But never got to a certain level, right? Is it too easy to just say, well, they weren't mentally tough enough? Or why do some take that talent, exact same talent as the guy right next to you, but one just goes, you know, one becomes Michael Juro and the other becomes, you know, and I don't want to throw anybody in their bus, but you know what I mean?
18:39Jonathan Hamm:Yeah, yeah. Well, the thing about it is, is if God give us the opportunity to do things, the opportunity to be nervous and a little afraid, that's a gift. Because the truth is, life is messed up sometimes. When I say life is messed up, bad things happen to good people. OK, some people is just unlucky. And that plays a part. Certain things happen. Certain people just meet the right coach. Certain people just meet the right person to help them. You know, luck plays a part of it in certain ways. You know, like I said, each and every last human being, we're all different in different ways, you know, but we just have to realize that, hey, you know, if anything, anything worth achieving, there's, there's something that there's risk with it.
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19:21It comes with it. Yeah.
19:22Jonathan Hamm:Talk, talk to us about like, what are you thinking about? Like philosophically, what questions are you dealing with right now in your life? Would you say? Probably, you know, honestly, probably the basic, the basic thing everybody else deal with. What I really, what I'm really into now is actually the study of studying. I study all religions, you know, whether it's from Hinduism, Hinduism to Judaism, to Christianity, to Islam, to Buddhism. Me studying religions and me finding out more about this world, you know, because, you know, Socrates taught us I know nothing, you know. And the more that you learn, the more you realize you know nothing at all.
19:58So the more I learn, the more I'm just open up, you know, more things just open the doors for me. and able to be, I consider myself a decent people's person. You know, the more I study religion, the more I'm able to get closer to other people so I can understand their background and where they came from.
20:15Jonathan Hamm:Interesting, yeah. And me studying other religions, it allowed me to get even closer than God because I'm not religious, okay? My mama is a preacher. My mama is a preacher and a good Christian and all of my values is definitely Christian based, 1000%. But I do believe in a higher power, but I do have a lot of questions. I do have a lot of questions And it's okay not to know. I'm just learning, guys. It's okay not to know what's up there in the sky, you know? So, you know, for me, just for the most part, it's just me just learning about religion, trying to continue to find ways to get closer to God.
20:48And by me studying religion, it getting me closer to more and more people because I'm able to understand different people's backgrounds.
20:54Jonathan Hamm:This question is, I want you to answer, but think of it more holistically just in general. All right. What's more dangerous, overconfidence or self-doubt? I would think definitely self-doubt. Okay. Self-doubt. Because it starts with you in your room first. It starts with you in your room first. So, you know, first you got to convince. First, you have to not per se convince, but you got to, at a certain point in time, you got to get, you have to have people believe in you. So first you got to make the people in your room believe in you. And after the people in the room believe in you, then you got to get the whole, then you got to get your side of your town.
21:28Then you get the city. Then you get the state. Then you get the nation. It just, it happens upon layers. when it comes to belief, you know? The more people that's able to believe in you, the more I think everything is more, how can I say, I ain't gonna say justified, reaffirming. More of your beliefs is reaffirming when you have more and more people that believe in you. And me personally, I believe in people who ain't afraid to fail, who are not scared to take chances. Failure is a part, if your whole way, you were succeeding the whole way through, what do I have to listen to? You know what I'm saying?
21:59Like, I need some people to teach me on how to deal with some of my failures. Yeah. I had to get through some of my trials and tribulations.
22:05Jonathan Hamm:I could not agree more. And there's an Einstein quote. I may paraphrase it, but something I think it was similar to give. If you've never failed, that means you never tried anything. Right. Wow. It's something like that. And you just you just reminded me of it. Yeah. And that's a part of it. Right. You're supposed to fail. You fail fast. You fail and you learn. Yeah. Right. And the thing we have to realize, guys, you know, and people who listen to this, we have to remember one thing. you know, everything that happened from our past, it was supposed to happen. And we have to forgive ourselves for things.
22:39And when I started studying psychology, I realized that you are who you are because the circumstance in which where you came from. Once again, you are who you are from the circumstance in which where you came from, the good and the bad. So a lot of us has made mistakes in the past, but with your life and your circumstance and what you came from, what you went through, you had no other choice but to make those mistakes. What other choice was you going to make with the course that you was dealt with in life you know so we just got to continue to just forgive ourselves and move on because learn from those people because god because when you're chosen by god when you're chosen those things were supposed to happen that's exactly right
23:13Jonathan Hamm:it's exactly right all right listen we're gonna wrap up soon and as i wrap up every episode jonathan as those who listen to my show i call it the random five so i ask you five very random questions it's more about your personal and different likes and dislikes right so if you're game here we go okay what kind of music gets you locked in part one and then what kind of music would people be surprised to learn you listen to okay um music that gets me locked in definitely you know i'm from atlanta the home of music so typically uh when it comes to getting my energy up i like a lot of down south music that's you you guys heard of the people like whether it's Future, Gucci Man, Young Jeezy, P.I., some of the old school Atlanta trap rappers.
23:56That kind of get my energy up, you know, like, hey, you know, and that's kind of expected in a way because me being from where I'm from and me having somewhat of a music background. But people will, most people will be surprised is most of the music I listen to is R &B. I listen to people like The Weeknd. My favorite artist is an artist named Party Next Door out of Canada. A lot of slow R &B kind of stuff because it kind of helps settle me and helps smooth me out, you know, because of me being, look, I'm 6 '7", 255 pounds. I can't walk around being this big, no, no, no. I have to just kind of just settle things down, you know, and actually I go to sleep.
24:34I go to sleep with people like I love, whether it's Beethoven, whether it's Bach, Mozart is definitely my favorite. You know, I love the old school classical music, you know. So, Brom, like I love a lot of those classical artists as well. So, yeah, I think people would be surprised that I like some of that.
24:51Jonathan Hamm:I think they would be too. And having met you, I'm surprised because I didn't know that. But I'm not surprised now that I've gotten to know you a little more. So, okay, next question. No overthinking this one. What's your favorite movie of all time? What comes to mind first? My favorite movies of all time. Let me think. And you can give me more than one. Okay, let me think. Favorite movie of all time. Well, I think the most funniest, to be honest, and it's kind of embarrassing. It's kind of embarrassing. But this movie, for some reason, when I'm in a bad mood, this is the stupidest movie of all time.
25:23It's called Don't Be a Menace to South Central While Drinking Your Juice in the Hood. It's the stupidest movie of all time. But that movie just had me laughing like crazy. It puts me in a good mood.
25:34Jonathan Hamm:Yeah, because it's a release. Yeah. But most of the time, but honestly, but most of the time, I really, really enjoy biographies of people, of people in their lives and going to their background and learning about the person. So I watch a ton of biographies. Like I was just watching, like I was just watching this movie on a philosopher named Carl Jung. I watched it like two or three times in a row. And just watching movies about great philosophers, not great philosophers, but great people, great historians in the past. Yeah. You know, those are things I enjoy doing the most. Okay, Jonathan doesn't know this, and he may get mad at me, but Jonathan also is an actor.
26:11Jonathan Hamm:Oh. I don't know. I'm going to say it for you because humility will prevent you. But tell us, what's the name of the movie, and where can people watch it? Okay, yeah, yeah. So the movie is called Big Fan, directed by Robert Siegel. And it also co-starred Patton Oswalt. Patton Oswalt was on King of Queens. Really great actor, man. Really great guy. Yeah, I got that opportunity, I think, in 2008, some years ago. And yeah, it was really fun. We shot it out there in New York. I mean, like the first 15 minutes of the video. And after that, you know, we had some other great actors in there as well. But yeah, yeah, you can scream it on whether it's Apple, it's on YouTube, it's on Tubi.
26:51It's pretty much on Amazon Prime. It's not on Netflix, not on HBO Plus. But yeah, yeah, you can get it with Google Play. It's on all those.
26:59Jonathan Hamm:So I will tell everybody listening, it's about a fan who obsesses that fair word over your character, right? And I love it being an Eagles fan than I am because it's about Giants, New York Giants, and we love Eagles fans. So it really struck a chord with me not only getting to see you, my friend, in it, but the backstory as well. So even if you're not a fan of those two teams, check it out. Jonathan's great. He plays this very over-the-top, right, almost bombastic star football player. but you just play it so well you're so subtle in the way you do it it's it's it really and there's great scenes so definitely check it out it's called big fan okay yeah country that was my name guys country ambition that's i don't know who thought of that name qb country i love that yeah because you hear qb and you think quarterback right yeah that's what i guess you would think yeah and i go wait that's that's the character name i love that okay are you someone who needs structuring in your day or do you operate better when things are a little more free-flowing man So somebody told me a while ago, one of my really good friends named Mark Chandro, very successful guy.
28:03He told me something. It really changed me. He said, you could tell a lot about somebody by the way they keep their house and the way they keep their car. What do you mean? He's like, just let it process real quick. All right. So what he was saying is, you know, for a long time for me in particular, you can walk into my whether my house or my condo. OK, the house and the condo be very, very clean. Oh, my. It's a nice house. It's a nice. Oh, this is pretty nice car. Oh, this is pretty nice. But you go inside my dressers, you go inside of my cabinets, you have things balled up and not folded. You have the spoons with the forks.
28:37You have the forks with the mayonnaise. And you have things all, you know, you have things all over the place. You know what I'm saying? And I want each and every last one of you guys to look at y 'all lives. The way you keep your house and your car, it definitely represents your life. Me, I've been working on that. I've been consistently trying to build upon that and work on myself. because I like the structure. I'm a go-getter. I go, I go, I go, all right? I got it. But I need that, yeah. I definitely need that balance of structure. Exactly, exactly.
29:06Jonathan Hamm:Okay, next one. Would you say you're more competitive with yourself or with others? Definitely with myself. Yeah, 1 ,000%. Definitely with myself. I don't want to let myself down, you know, and I don't want to let my, I don't want to let my mama down. And I just got so many people in my family who just so supportive of me and love me, you know, because, you know, Ultimately, everything that I do, I just try to put myself in position to give to other people. I weigh that on my shoulders all the time. What's the purpose of me being successful? I've had money. I've made good money. I've been traveling the world, playing sports.
29:40I've had those good things. I've had money. I've had all that stuff. But nothing makes me more happier than giving to people. I put a lot of pressure on myself because if I'm not able to succeed and be successful, I'm not able to do what God sent me here to do. and let's help people.
29:57Jonathan Hamm:Okay, last question. And I know this is going to be hard for you to pick just one, but if you could sit down with anyone, pass your present over dinner, who is it and why? Who would it be? Honestly, it'd probably be somebody, it'd be Leonardo da Vinci. Why? It don't get, he is by far, he is the most intelligent human being that ever, he is the most, he's the smartest person, the most intelligent human being, like the most gifted person that ever lived. Leonardo da Vinci was groundbreaking for so many things. so many things, you know. He is the key figure when it comes to the Renaissance period.
30:29He was a doctor. He was an engineer. He was somewhat of a politician, the way he was able to help negotiate different things. He was a scientist. Leonardo da Vinci had so many different weird talents. Like, he was the first person to design a parachute. Wow. He was the first person to design a cannonball, a cannonball. He was the first person to design an airplane. And he worked on, it's kind of weird because what made him great in his art, he would dissect human bodies. Okay, Leonardo da Vinci. He would dissect human bodies. So whenever you see some of his artwork, all the muscle lines and definition would be so precise because of his study of human anatomy because he worked so hard at it.
31:11So, yeah, when it comes to a man with all those different talents, man, so I think out of everybody, it'll definitely be Leonardo da Vinci because I'm really into art and stuff.
31:20Jonathan Hamm:I love that. What a great way to end. Listen, my brother, Jonathan Hamm, I can't thank you enough for coming on. You're an absolute treat. Thank you, my brother. Hey, I'm very grateful for being on your show. It's an absolute honor. And I just want everybody out there to know, you know, hey, when it comes to achieving things, hey, it's going to be a little nerve wracking. It's going to be a little scary sometimes. But God put you in that position for a reason. You were chosen. Those feelings that you feel, that nervous feeling, those butterflies, it's an honor to feel that feeling. All right? I want y 'all to go out there and get it.
31:49And I want to thank you guys for listening to me.
31:51Jonathan Hamm:Thank you, brother. All right. Thank you, guys. Well, that wraps up another episode of the CMO Whisperer Show. I hope you shared this episode with your friends. And if you have not already, please subscribe to be kept up to date on all the latest episodes. And if you're so inclined, leave me a review on your favorite podcast platform. Thank you.
From the publisher
My guest today is Jonathan Hamm, a former number one-ranked amateur boxer in the United States and 2011 US national champion. Jonathan was one of the top super heavyweight fighters of his era and an Olympic team alternate heading into the 2012 London games. Before that, he was a standout college football player who earned a shot with the New Orleans Saints and later transitioned into mixed martial arts, training alongside such legends as Jon Jones.
But what makes Jonathan different isn't just his path. It's how he thinks about it. Because beyond the physicality, beyond the competition, Jonathan has developed a deep interest in philosophy, identity, and the mental frameworks that shape how we perform, adapt, and evolve. From the ring to business to life, this is a conversation about pressure, decision making, reinvention and the mind behind it all.