How Relationships Change Everything - Nataly Kelly

0:00Nataly Kelly:Hey, welcome to the CMO Whisper Show. I'm your host, Steve Olenski. Part marketing practitioner, part ad agency veteran, part journalist, I was a writer for Forbes for 10 years. I've had so many insightful conversations over the years with business leaders, to athletes, to celebrities, to of course, CMOs. The only difference now is instead of sharing those insights through written form, I'm doing it this way. My guest today is Natalie Kelly, Chief Marketing Officer at Zappi, where she's helping some of the world's biggest brands rethink how they understand consumers and make faster, smarter, data-driven decisions.

0:39Nataly Kelly:Now, Natalie is one of those rare marketing leaders who blends operator muscle with true global perspective. Before Zappi, she spent nearly a decade at HubSpot, where she played a key role in the company's international growth, leading marketing, localization, and expansion into new markets. She's also the co-author with Catherine Melchioré, another guest on the pod. A Brand Global Adapt Local, How to Build Brand Value Across Cultures. A must read for anyone trying to build a brand that actually travels across borders and cultures. And thank you for holding up the book. Natalie's also written many other books which we're going to get into.

1:17Nataly Kelly:What makes her story even more compelling, are you ready for this? She started her career as a Spanish interpreter and built her way to the CMO seat, giving her a uniquely powerful lens on communication, culture, and connection. And on a more personal note, I can't make this up, guys. Something I love. Natalie and I share a deep appreciation for Motown. That timeless ability to connect, transcend, and resonate across generations and cultures, that's just not magic. It's branding at its absolute best. Natalie brings strategic clarity, global insight, and real operating experience to the table. And that's exactly why this is going to make such a great conversation.

1:58Nataly Kelly:Natalie, Kelly, welcome. Steve Alensky, thank you for having me. So excited to be here. We have had some amazing off-the-air conversations. We got to meet in person at the Super Bowl. All I can say is everybody buckle up. Going to be a fun ride. All right. Like, I got to start with the two letters, blah, blah, blah, AI, we know, right? But I'm going to change the lens here during our conversation and kind of make the overarching theme relationships. Something you know I am very important in my life and built my career on, as have you. So we're living in this AI everywhere moment. Everybody's talking about efficiency, scale, automation, blah, blah, blah.

2:39Nataly Kelly:Where do relationships still completely outpace technology? Yes. Yes, I'm glad you started there, Steve, because I think everybody is getting a little tired of AI hype and also kind of AI falling short of expectations in many cases because everybody, you know, the hype cycle, we were at the peak and then kind of the trough of disillusionment. And it's, you know, now everybody's like, okay, now what do we do? Well, one of the things that AI really can't do is replace relationships between people. and as a lot of content is getting you know out there and it's ai generated people you know ai slop is pervasive everybody's thinking who do i trust you know in terms of brands in terms of individuals did this person really write this or was it written by claude or chachi pt so i think relationships are really what's going to save us from ai slop and is actually what ai cannot do is build relationships with humans.

3:39And so those relationships, in my opinion, are going to be even more valuable as AI adoption continues. So I'm glad she started there. I think it's a good place to start in general and in life, building relationships with people, but I think especially now.

3:53Nataly Kelly:Exactly. And I just thought of something for those just, you're watching this on YouTube. This is the first video version of the CMO Whisperer. And I'm looking at myself and I realized I'm missing something. Are you ready? oh love it there it is first swag right off the presses okay i'll get one and i'll wear it for the next time i talk to you a billion percent absolutely we'll get you a whole gift bag okay relationships i cannot wait this is so great what's something about building real relationships that people think they understand but actually get wrong i think the thing that people get wrong is not nurturing those relationships and staying in touch with people and i've read i'm an introvert Steve.

4:36So I am not a natural networker. I've had to work hard at it my whole life. And I've read a lot of books about networking, which of course is an introvert way to solve the problem. Because rather than get out there and learn by doing, we're like, can I sit back and go into my head? But one of the big takeaways that I had from multiple books that I read on this topic was, it's not just having the relationship, it's deepening it. And that's actually something that introverts are very good at is once you have a relationship thinking, how do I uniquely add value and help this person so I can bring them closer to me?

5:10And how do I make sure that I look for the opportunities to engage with them, that I can stay connected to them, that I can ping them frequently and stay, you know, stay tight with them? Because it's not, we all have lots of connections. How well do we work our networks? How deeply do we go in those networks? And often, And we only do that when we need something. Like, oh, lost my job. Now I need to look who's in my network. What if you had all along been adding a little value here, a little value there? Somebody says, oh, I need help now. And lean in to help them when they need help. Then what goes around comes around.

5:46And you're going to be able to tap in to a network that's ready to help you and is ready and willing to help you. I think that's the number one thing that people get wrong. It's not going to an event to meet as many people as possible. It's about meeting those few people that you have a natural inclination toward and something that you can bond over like us and our love of Motown. You know, it's how do you find those people and find something you actually have a legitimate reason to build a relationship around? You know, that's what unlocks real value. That's my opinion anyway.

6:20Nataly Kelly:I'm so glad you went there because I preach to people all the time that relationships are relationships are relationships. And most time, I think when people hear that word, they immediately think personal, your relationship with your partner, your spouse, your children, whatever. But I just feel like most people default to that personal, romantic when you hear that word, right? And then when you take that a step further, you know, you hear, well, what's one of the most foundational things of a successful relationship? It's communication. So why would you not apply that same thinking to every relationship?

6:53Yeah. And it's the quality and the quantity and the frequency. And as marketers, we think about this all the time. It's the format. It's the surround sound. What is going on when that happens? You might have a really horrible experience with someone if you're stuck in a crowded room that's too hot in the middle of can. Oh, I'm speaking from experience here. Hungry, tired, jet lagged. You might not have the best moment to connect with them at that exact moment. You might not be at your best, but it's the quality of those communications. It's the quantity of them. How frequent are they? In what context?

7:28In what setting? You know, those are things we think about as marketers each and every day, but we rarely apply them to our own networking and relationship building.

7:37Nataly Kelly:I'm a big believer too, and I'm so glad you said this too, is just pop your head in on somebody that, you know, you have a quote unquote professional relationship. You're not asking, how are you doing? How are things going? And I liken it to one of the biggest pet peeves I've ever had with brands is, I forget how I phrased it, but every time you communicate with a consumer, it doesn't mean you have to sell them something. Yes. It's the same principle when you're working. Like, if I reach out to somebody and it could be you or vice versa, hey, Steve, how's it going? It's going great. Thanks. Okay.

8:13Nataly Kelly:You're not asking me for something. I'm not asking you for, I'm not selling you something. Does that make sense? Yeah, totally. And in fact, a person I reached out to just recently, I was thinking, I don't really have a reason to get in touch with them, but I really like the way they think. I want to go sit with them and talk about stuff. I don't know what. I just really like them. And I really want to hear what's new. And I think that's a valid reason to check in on somebody and get together with them. And I think we need to do that more because how do opportunities come up and how do these ideas evolve?

8:47Usually from those unplanned interactions where you weren't planning anything. Not everything has to be planned and strategic. You have to have a little bit of magic. You know, you have to open yourself up to have those. I don't know what's going to happen, but I want to meet that colleague for coffee. And I think there's a lot of importance in having those touch points that is misunderstood. And it's the same as like, you know how in large businesses, you need an operating cadence. You need a weekly one-on-one or a monthly touch point or whatever it is. Similar with all relationships. It's like, how often are we checking in?

9:25Can I get that person on a cadence where I meet them for coffee every two months or something? It's like the people who matter and who you naturally are inclined toward, I think it's good to have that in your life.

9:37Nataly Kelly:I think, and I think it's even more imperative if that's the word important when you're in the C-suite. Yes. Agreed. And in the age of AI, because AI can't do that for us. And I think that is a risk with AI, like all of us, myself included, you know, instead of asking a human for advice. Now I go in, I ask my Claude confessional, ask ChachiP2, you know, and I think it's great. I love technology and I love the ability and the capabilities that are unlocked because of it. But I want to make sure we don't lose the human element that is actually what differentiates us from machines. So, yeah, I think that's really important as technology evolves.

10:20Nataly Kelly:I'm going to put you on the spot here. all the relationships? Is there one or two maybe, you know, truly changed, you know, your trajectory, how you look at things? Oh, there's a couple. I mean, how I would say there's a couple that really shaped my career. There's a few, in fact. So there was a woman that I met when I was an interpreter. You mentioned I was a Spanish interpreter at AT &T. They used to fly all of us remote workers out to California to Monterey to their headquarters for this business unit that was part of AT &T called Language Line. That was 1996. So I've been a remote worker since 1996, Steve.

10:57Back then they called it telecommuting because we did it on the phone. This is showing my age. But I think that was a really transformative experience for me because I was part of a big company, AT &T, but I was part of a business unit that behaved kind of like a startup. And there was a woman there by the name of Winnie Hay, this Taiwanese American woman. And I thought, oh, she must be an interpreter. I wonder what language she speaks. She walked by and said, oh, are you an interpreter? And she's like, no, but I work here. And I was like, oh, what do you do? And she's like, oh, I work in the office.

11:30And I thought, oh, maybe she's like a receptionist or something. It turns out she was actually a global vice president at AT &T. And I got to meet her. I learned so much from her. And throughout my career, she's gone on to do other things. Long story short, I met up with her again recently after all these years, same person as I met in 1996 in my very first job, but she's retiring now. And she's that, you know, a little bit older than me. And I feel like, wow, I learned so much from her seeing a strong woman with a foreign accent in a business like that at a fortune 50 company in my earliest days, just out a college that really shaped my idea of what a leader can be.

12:13You know, I was like, she can do that. I can do that. Like, it made me feel like, oh, there's someone who's doing this with more difficulties and challenges to overcome than I had. You know, English is her second language, you know, and here I speak English as a native language. If she can accomplish this, you know, maybe I can do something great with my life too. So I, that she's a real inspiration to me and just staying in touch with her over the years, pinging, you know, staying in touch, even online, a great example of relationship that was formative for me and inspiring a mentor from afar all these years.

12:48Nataly Kelly:It's a great story. Yeah. It's a great story from both sides because you could have just assumed she was just quote unquote, you know, whatever, right. An interpreter, not that you wouldn't have struck up a relationship with her in the first place, but some people would have been thought like, eh, you know, she doesn't look like someone I should know if that makes sense and then from her lens she could have had the same reaction to you meaning i'm a global vice president i don't have to talk to this little peon yeah exactly yeah and she's just so kind and all these years you know she went on to become you know very involved with monterey institute in the localization master's program and all that and yeah just a wonderful person who gave back over the course of her career shaped many many lives so i feel very fortunate to be connected to her.

13:32Nataly Kelly:So that's a great, it's a really great human interest, a personal story that clearly affected you. I can just hear it in your voice, how you treat others now. I try to always look at people with, you never know, you know, like an open mind of like, I never know who could surprise me, who could be the next entrepreneur, who could have the best idea in the room. You know, you can't ever judge a book by its cover, but you also can't judge people by their titles or their backgrounds or any of that. And I carry that with me everywhere. Okay. I'm sure there's some people in the audience going or listening going, wait a minute, hold on.

14:08Nataly Kelly:Spanish interpreter to CMO. Okay. If I had a nickel for every time, I'd have one nickel and I don't think I'm going to get another one. And you know how many CMOs I've spoken to in my career and will speak to. So through those listening who are thinking what But I'm thinking, how did you do this? Well, I think lots of people have unusual, unconventional paths to the CMO role. Mine is definitely an unconventional one. You know, I was an interpreter for Spanish at AT &T. I started to write before I was an interpreter, I should say. When I was in college, I was a blogger. I was one of the first bloggers, you know, when the internet came out.

14:50I was like, oh, I can connect to people. I can connect to more people. I can reach an audience. I was also always a writer. and I thought, oh, I can reach lots of people. You know, I used to write for my local newspaper in Illinois where I grew up. I would write for any publication. When I got to AT &T, I realized, oh, there's hundreds of Spanish interpreters. It's probably more readers than I had in my small town newspaper. Maybe I should do a newsletter for them. So I did a newsletter. I wrote a blog. You know, I began doing an email newsletter back in the day. I grew that to, you know, pretty big subscriber list, 30 ,000 at one point, you know, interpreters that read that newsletter.

15:23And like I learned, I built websites. I produced content online. I was a content marketer before that really was called that. And I was doing marketing. I just didn't realize that's what marketing was. And then when I left my interpreting job, I became a trainer at AT &T, trained other interpreters, moved on, started my own business, got into market research, which was a fascinating area for me. Then I moved to another telephone interpreting company where I did a lot of marketing. I was basically launching new products and language services for them. And I had to build a lot of marketing materials to train my salespeople.

15:59And I ran sidecar with them on the deals. And I did a lot of sales enablement, writing scripts for them, writing coaching, helping them build their slide decks, did all that for a while. Then I moved to a market research company. I ended up, I was an analyst at first, like a, like a little Forrester shoot off kind of, you know, from Forrester, ex-Forrester alumni. and I did a lot of consulting, a lot of marketing consulting, helping companies figure out their unique differentiation in the market, stuff like that. From there, I moved into tech. One of the categories I was covering was translation software.

16:34And so I went and worked at a translation software company and I was building a channel for them, a partner channel, and I was doing SEO and I was doing all kinds of interesting stuff. And then the chief revenue officer asked me to move into the marketing role. He's like, you know, the industry, you know, the market, you know, and you're a great writer and you understand this and you naturally produce a lot of content. Let's move into VP marketing role. And that was a venture backed series B, then series C startup. And that was where I really cut my teeth in marketing. And I had an amazing CMO mentor, somebody who was an executive at Eloqua and they taught me a lot and they suggested I follow HubSpot.

17:16So I followed HubSpot, who happened to be a customer of mine at the time. And I reached out and networked with them and they ended up hiring me. That wasn't my plan. I was just trying to learn from the best and they wooed me with their content. And I love the content marketing approach that they had, inbound marketing. Ended up moving there as a VP of marketing. I was overseeing Latin America marketing, back to my Spanish roots. Then they asked me to build localization and I did. And then they asked me to run international expansion. So I started launching offices in other countries for them and building our hubs and in other parts of the world.

17:52And then I eventually made my way to Zappy from there. So yeah, it's been a roundabout journey, Steve, but it all kind of one thing led to the next and that's how I got to where I am.

18:04Nataly Kelly:Thank you for sharing that. That's an amazing journey. Like you said, we all have our own unique journey, but I'm fairly confident to say you will be the first and only Spanish interpreter to a CMO. Who knows? But you've never seen it. You've never seen it. Okay. I don't know. As I mentioned in the bio, you've written, I think I mentioned what I'm going to say now, you've written four books. The most recent is called Brand Global, Adapt Local. Yes. I want to get into the book a little bit, but first, for those not familiar, what's the book about? So this book, this is the most recent book. It's with Catherine Melchioré.

18:36It's about how you build a brand for the world. So not only a brand that can be locally successful, but globally successful as well. We have tons of cool examples from all these different brands. From my experience, from Catherine's, Catherine, who is a former guest of yours, as you know, has worked at companies like Shiseido, Louis Vuitton, Gucci, Hannah Anderson, Hyatt. She's worked for all these really great consumer brands. I come more from the B2B space. So I contributed a lot on digital marketing and B2B. in this book. Majority of it was written by Catherine, but I had written other books before and she thought it'd be good to team up with me.

19:15So she invited me to join her in this collaboration. And I'm pretty proud of what we've put together. It's actually, we just learned recently that it's going to come out in French soon. So in a few months, the French edition will be published in the France market. Ironically, we launched it in France at Ken Lyons, but that was the US edition, the English edition. So now it's coming out in French, which is a dream come true, given the topic of the book.

19:41Nataly Kelly:I love that. How would you say your relationships, in a way, help shape the writing of the book? Oh my gosh. So I can, I mean, if you just look at the acknowledgements, you'll see the amount of people, it's like an Oscar speech. Not only the people that we thanked for supporting us in the book journey itself, but the stories that we got, you know, like the endorsements that we got, like we've got the former chairman of LVMH Japan, former chief marketing officer of Nike, David Acker of Akron Branding on the back cover. You don't get those endorsements unless you have relationships. And so all of us really need to make sure we nurture those.

20:23And like, I always feel honored when anybody is willing to endorse my book because they're endorsing me in a sense, you know, they're saying she knows her stuff. And so by them coming forward and endorsing us, like that's the best sign of a relationship that you can have, really.

20:39Nataly Kelly:Totally. Yeah. I mean, it's like that seal of approval, that validation. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And sharing their stories, you know, sharing their stories. You know, Andrea Perez, who wrote the foreword of the book, you know, Catherine met her at Nike. She just now joined Free People. These are people who are doing great work and just to stay connected to them is such an honor and a privilege. And I got to meet Andrea when we launched the book in New York. So really, it's just so great to see. The other thing you mentioned is how do your relationships help you with this? When you need to launch a book, you need people to help you.

21:16You need to get the word out. And even just the launch party. I invited everybody I could think of in New York who might be willing to come out and support us. And Catherine has a big network in New York too. So, you know, even just a little something small, like a launch party is really when you're asking your network to come out and help you.

21:33Nataly Kelly:Yeah. Yeah. Let's get into your personal, you know, the Natalie Kelly. When people walk away from or have a relationship with you, what do you hope they consistently feel or say about you and a relationship with you? That's a really good question, Steve. I just hope that I added some value, you know, that they got something that will help them. I've taken all these different personality assessments. I'm sure you have too. There's the DISC profile. There's Myers-Briggs. There's all these different ones. I took one recently that's called a Hogan assessment. And it ranks you for leadership qualities on a bunch of different dimensions.

22:10And what I learned in that Hogan assessment was that my altruism score was like in the 99th percentile. I never knew that before until I took that test, but it resonated with me a lot because to answer your question, what I hope they say about me is that I helped them in some way that I helped. That's the one thing that I care about is like, life is short. You know, we have only so many minutes on this earth. Did I add value in that interaction? Did I help them in some way? Did I contribute in a meaningful way? I hope can't do it in every single conversation, but I'll do my best. That's what I hope people remember is like, well, she genuinely wanted to help me.