Human-Centered AI Marketing - Lisa Harrup Mieuli

0:28Hey, welcome to the CMO Whisper Show. The company leading the way in deep observability and network visibility for today's hybrid cloud world. But Lisa brings more than two decades of experience building and scaling global marketing engines at companies like Tenable, Nimble Storage, and Symantec. She's known for designing high-impact programs that drive measurable growth, elevate brand awareness, and unite teams around clear business outcomes. From navigating the evolving intersection of cybersecurity and marketing to leading through transformation, Lisa brings a rare blend of strategic clarity and creative energy that kind of turns complexity into momentum.

1:06Lisa, hair up, Muley. Welcome to the show. So listen, lots to talk about, right? Look at your background, really diverse. I love it. And I want to start off with kind of like looking at AI as a catalyst, right, for marketing, for like modern marketing, Julie, even. Now, it's quickly become the co-pilot, if you will, for marketers everywhere. But you and I both know not everybody's using it effectively. Now, I know that's a term, how effective is effective, right? But what's one practical way you've seen AI truly accelerate marketing execution rather than just add noise? Yeah, great question. I think every marketer wants to use AI or have AI as a daily part of their routine.

1:48but I think you have to be very strategic on implementing AI, right? And so I think as we went into 2025 as a marketing team, one of our key initiatives and what we call our big rocks was AI implementation, right? So how do we make AI a part of our daily lives? And we started small. So I believe it's kind of a crawl, walk, run mentality. And so we started with an AI tiger team. And so we took different members of the marketing organization from different teams and really formed an AI, AI tiger team to think about, okay, what are the key use cases that we can implement that will help us work smarter, not harder, right?

2:33And so we, that tiger team formed and we worked with an agency and really thought about, okay, how do we implement AI? And so we talked about, all right, how do we use it from a content lifecycle management? So how do we get content moving through the system from execution or idea from idea to execution? Right. And so that goes everywhere from, you know, how do we automate intake and getting through approvals and consistency and reducing the bottleneck, um, structuring our tagging, um, and then also using Adobe AEM to centralized content activation across all channels. So making sure it's through our channels and a closed loop creation, right?

3:20And then also, how do we think about creative development? And so for our designers on in, you know, they're getting intake from all over the world from field marketing from digital, how do we make that a smoother process? And so they're not starting from scratch every single time. And we can go into more detail if you're interested. And then, you know, ChatGPT is our friend on a daily basis. And it's our friend, not just to create content and move forward, but, you know, creating, taking long form content. So those 42 page white papers that we have, and then creating them into shorter form, snackable content from whether it's a blog or a, you know, social media post or something like that, but really using ChatGPT to get more forms of content in a quicker way, if that makes sense.

4:15No, it makes total sense. And as you're speaking, I'm thinking about one of the challenges I know everybody has is the word balance, right? And to me, when I hear AI and balance, the first thing I think of is the balance between AI and humanity, not to get hyperbolic, right? But it really is that? Yeah. And how, as the CMO and the marketing leader go, all right, guys, we're going to use chat, but you know, almost don't use chat verbatim, use it as a tool. 100%. So I think there's two, I think there's two ways that we all started to embrace AI. One was, I would say some people were nervous that, is it going to take my job or is it going to replace me?

4:57And two, how do I use it as a tool every in every aspect right but I want to make sure that yes it is apps to your point it's a tool and there's still a human component to all of it so making sure that from a personal perspective your voice is heard or there is that human nature in the content we're developing and because we're at the end of the day we're talking human to human and yes there's bots out there. I understand that. But we're really solving use cases that somebody has. And so making sure that not only the voice is correct, the persona we're trying to talk to is correct, and we're representing our brand.

5:40So it is a tool to get us more efficient, but not replace the human. Right. So another balance that I hear in talking to CMOs and and leaders alike is that's that balance between speed and strategy, meaning AI moves at, you know, warp speed, but you still have to make sure it's moving in the right direction, right? Talk a little bit about that. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that goes back to, you know, thinking about your initiatives for the year and what are it in helping teams prioritize, right? So we have, you know, AI implementation was one of our initiatives, but we also have, you know, business focused initiatives.

6:19And so making sure as we're using AI, everything that we're doing is you can make the list long, but everything that we're doing is tied back to the strategic initiatives that we're trying to accomplish. Right. And I think a way that it's making us smarter is how, if we're focused on specific personas, which we are, how are we making sure that we're talking to those personas correctly and not just spitting out content. Or if we're really trying to show business value, how are we getting to the business problem and the budget line item that we're trying to help our customers and prospects solve?

6:59So really focusing on first, what are we trying to accomplish strategically? And then how do we use AI to get us there in a more efficient way? Because I think fast is a fair word, but I prefer efficiently. If that makes sense. No, no, no. That's not semantics at all. That's a big discernible difference. Yeah, yeah. And it is speed, but it is more importantly, efficiency. Exactly, because speed does not always equal efficiency. Yeah, exactly. So beyond automation, which you know AI is just changing the rules as we speak, is there anything any insight or anything that you've that ai's kind of surfaced for you when your team about and you mentioned uh you know buyer patterns or audience behavior anything come to mind that's kind of like oh i might not have known this without ai yeah well i think two two things right one on the team side is i think some team members or it were more nervous or apprehensive to, okay, how is AI going to affect my everyday life?

8:10And like we talked about taking the human out of that. And I think what we've seen is creating more aha moments of confidence in using AI and really understanding how to make their day more, I'm going to keep on using that word efficient, but it has created confidence within the team that this is a tool that actually can help me. And I no longer have to be apprehensive about it, but I can be confident in using it. And then I think on the go to market side, it is helping us whether it's from getting content out faster, but I also think it's helping us getting to the message, being more poignant on the message that we're trying to get out.

8:58And I think all of us, no matter if you're a consumer shopping, we're all trying to get to the point faster. And yes, we need to understand, but we're using AI to get to, to get smarter, faster. And so how do we get the message we're trying to get out into the audience in a more effective way? Yeah, it makes total sense. So throughout your career, you've led teams through some major transformations, right? And I'm curious to get your point of view on, what does it really take to build a culture really where data and experimentation are make it, you know, you're part of the everyday marketing, not just some goal you set on a quarterly basis?

9:37Yeah, absolutely. So I think about if we think about marketing 15 years ago, marketing operations or data wasn't really a part of the conversation. And if we think about data and marketing operations, it's absolutely a necessity to understanding on a daily basis, what's working and what's not working. And so as marketers, I think we really, and me personally, what I really enjoy about marketing and building teams is making sure that the team understands how we're contributing to the business on a daily basis. And so making sure that we understand what we're doing, whether it's driving the brand, bringing brand and demand together, what is the underlying data that's actually showing success that we then are, you know, I'm bringing to executive staff, how marketing is actually helping drive the business.

10:34Because at the end of the day, we want to make a difference as well. And we're making a difference in the success of the business. And so I think building a culture on that is helping the team understand, And, you know, yes, what are the quarterly goals that we're trying to get to? But on a weekly basis, how are we doing against those goals? And why are we doing what we're doing? And so bringing the team along, not only what are we trying to accomplish, but why are we trying to accomplish it and what success looks like? And not just measuring success at the end of the quarter, but making sure that we're talking about success along the way.

11:15And if there's pitfalls, what changes do we need to make as an organization by looking at the data to make those changes quickly that we're not like at the end of the quarter? Oh, shoot, that didn't work. But we're able to be more agile with the data that we have at hand. So we're looking at success as a team, not just individual functions of the team. So I'm going to use the word balance again here because, and, you know, every leader I talk to, every CMO, you know, says a lot of the same things in different ways. And that is, come at me with all your ideas, but there has to be a business case, right?

11:52And there's that balance of, you know, encouraging curiosity and creativity in your team, but you also want to, without letting the pursuit of measurement, stifle big ideas kind of thing. 100%. Yeah. So and I think that also helps with prioritization. So I think balance because we can create a really long list and say yes to everything. But if we all understand our priorities, then we have then in teams and individual employees are empowered to say yes and no to what we're trying to accomplish. Right. And so, yes, I'm going to do that because it helps drive the initiative or the business initiative that we're trying to drive.

12:38Or no, that doesn't make sense because it's not part of the priorities we've set in place. Or helping people. And escalate is not a bad word. Escalation is help me make a decision that I have the data here to make the decision. help me make the decision that I may not feel empowered to make or just need support in making that decision. Does that make sense? Totally. It's that's why that word balance is so important. Yes. Yeah. Balance is because I think we all, you know, we all want to do the right thing. We all want to drive business. But at one point in time, we need to understand what is the priority and how what is going to be at the end of the day, the most beneficial for the outcome of the business.

13:25And so, yes, there's things that we could say yes to because I want to do this. But one, the power of no. But then two, I think you said something key there, too, is we also in marketing, you know, our goal is to be ahead of our skis. Right. And so to be creative, to think differently. And so sometimes not get not have the data get in the way of trying something new and, you know, try something new. and fail fast and, you know, that's great. Or try something new. And if it's working, let's repeat it across the globe. Don't overthink it. Yeah, yeah. I love that. The hybrid cloud and security space, they're very complex, right?

14:08But my question to you is, how do you and your team simplify that narrative? So it resonates with, you know, like CISOs and business decision makers alike. Yeah, I think it is a complex and there's a lot of environment and there's a lot of noise out there. So I think the key is, from my perspective, is really thinking about not speaking in the Gigamon language and talk about all of our features and functions and what we do, but really thinking about whether it's from the CISO level, the director of IT, or, you know, the individual contributors of who we're trying to help is what are the business problems they're trying to solve and how to how do we solve them?

14:53and then explaining what the products do, but really thinking about, okay, what are the business problems we're trying to solve? What are the big four that a CISO is actually talking to the board about? And how do we, whether it's compliance, avoiding risk, or we're all under budget constraints, how do we help CISOs get to that board level conversation of our solution is helping them be smarter every day? So we both know marketing is very often that connective tissue right between the technical side, the commercial teams and so on. Take yourself even out of your own industry, if you will. How can a CMO like bridge that language gap?

15:34Engineering, product, the customer. That can be a real challenge. How do you do that? Yeah, I think that, you know, that's interesting. I just had a conversation with our head of products yesterday or the day before. And what we really talked about is how do we get, you know, away from the function feature and how do we get to the value and the question of why, right? Why buy Gigamon? And if you're having those conversations with your product teams and your marketing teams and you get away from, wait, I want to put five more bullets just to explain this one thing. but we're really talking about how do we create the value for our customers and how do we get to the why faster, right?

16:20Yep. Yep. Exactly. Talking a little bit about, I know this is an overused term, but storytelling, right? Because as we both said at the top of this, we're still marketing to humans. The last time I checked with emotions and good days, bad days. So how does a brand like Gigamon use storytelling. Yeah, that's another conversation that we're having as we're getting into, you know, AOP planning for 2026 is how do we really think about being better storytellers from a marketing perspective? And some of the conversation was how do we spend more time with our sales organization to understand what are the stories they're telling when they're in one-on-one conversations?

17:01What are the stories that, you know, Shane, our CEO is telling when they're, he's having a conversation with C-Level or so making sure that we're taking real life stories that are happening in the field on a daily basis. And how do we take them in and make them reach broader than just an individual conversation? But I absolutely think, and this goes back to the value and the why is we as marketers all have to be thinking about the story we want to tell. And we're not telling a story in a 42 page document. We have to tell our story in what I call snackable content that people can have, you know, an aha moment quickly and then want to learn more.

17:48Right. Because what we also know is that buyers, you know, customers and prospects, they're 70 % through the buying cycle before they want to talk to us, right? And so we have to make sure that our content is in front of them, that the way that they want to consume it. So when they are ready to raise their hand, and they've made that shortlist that we're a part of that conversation. But we have to be in front of them because we all, you know, whether you're a consumer or a technology buyer, we all do research on our own before we want to talk to anybody. Sure. Making sure that we help them through that process.

18:26That is like a self-managed process. Measurement, right? Another holy grail, right? We all know for marketers, especially when things like storytelling. And I know you sounds like you guys are just focusing or refocusing more on storytelling part of the marketing. How do you measure that? Is there a way to like, how in your mind do you measure the impact? Yeah, I think you measure it on and we are making a transformation to from looking at that one marketing qualified lead. So that one single person that's raising their hand, but really thinking about a marketing qualified account. Right. And so where are we seeing engagement from multiple people at an account?

19:13That account is actually engaged with us and we should be working towards reaching out to that account. So I'm not sure if I'm answering your question correctly, but we're really focusing on instead of waiting for that one individual person to hit 70 points based on our lead scoring module is really looking at, you know, and MQL is still important. We're still going to respond to that, but really looking at, we have multiple people from one account engaging with us that they all individually may have not reached that score of 70, but we can tell from what the interactions are that that's somebody, an account we need to pounce on.

19:55And I also think using tools, right, the marketing tech stack is a really more robust than it has been in the past. So really helping us understand, you know, what accounts are in the discovery or education or awareness phase and what accounts are really in the purchase and decision phase and how do we make sure that we're engaging those where where those accounts are right that's a big difference yeah yeah yeah so i think the way that going back to measurement the the modern you know we're continuing to modernize the way that marketing is measured and you know understanding one marketing qualified accounts so understanding the buying center and what the buying center is doing and also from we're all always having the conversation about source of business but really from a marketing perspective, it's about attribution, right?

20:49And marketing really touches accounts throughout the sales cycle. So understanding how, how marketing is touching accounts prior to an opportunity being created, post an opportunity being created, and how do we help them through that once they're a customer and making sure we continue to educate them and be a part of it's a like building that relationship from introduction to customer life cycle so then they become an advocate not easy to do by any means we i wouldn't say we have it completely figured out but we're on that journey to i would say modern measurement of of a marketing organization well listen if you crack that code call me because we're all going to become multi-billionaires okay Well, and that's the thing you ask, you have to get a lot of people on board.

21:39You have to think about how you measure that from an operations perspective, how you get the rest of the exec staff on board with that, that kind of conversation. And then also sometimes it's a board level conversation. Yep, exactly. All right. I want to, I want to put your leadership hat on for a couple of questions here. Sure. What's harder leading, leading when you have all the answers or leading when you don't. Can I answer that in two ways? Of course. I think what's more fun is leading when you don't have all the answers. Because, and I think in some situations, when you have a blank sheet of paper, that's the hardest part, because you're creating that blank sheet of paper.

22:23But it's also an opportunity because you get to make decisions and create something new. So I would say it's harder when you don't have all the answers, but I would say it's also more fun. I love that. How do you balance you personally balance empathy and accountability, but still drive results as a leader? Yeah, I am by nature, whether it was because I was a cheerleader in high school or I'm just by nature a cheerleader. And so it's I think in going back to what I said earlier is to make sure that everybody understands the why. Right. And so what are we trying to accomplish and how are we going to do this as a team?

23:06And so but the empathy comes on in the form of really recognizing what teams are going through and taking the time to listen. Right. And I think one of my as a CMO, one of the most important jobs I have is to listen, understand and help clear roadblocks. So when someone is trying to do the best job that they everybody wants to do a good job, I believe. And when they're hitting those roadblocks, how do I remove them so they can truly do the job that they're trying to do? So I think that's where the empathy comes in is to really understand what's going on and how can I help? Does that make sense?

23:50It makes total sense. And that's the mark of a great leader. I will say it for you because I'm sure humility will not let you say it, but I'll say it for you. um do you have an example i'm curious of a leadership decision you made that didn't go quite as planned but ended up making you a better leader or a lesson you've learned or just something that happened that at the time didn't go quite but as you look back so let me start with this answer and then then we can maybe build on it so i think as a leader there are some there's hard decisions that you have to make. And sometimes it's, it's isolating.

24:29And there are times that potentially you have more information than the rest of the team. So you're making tough, tough decisions. And then you have to bring the team along on those tough decisions. And so as a leader, I think making those tough decisions, and then making sure that the team comes along and I and I I'm sure everybody uses this example but we all had to live through COVID right and we all had to we truly as marketers I will say going from in person to completely online to not being able to touch and feel like we had to make tough decisions on and not knowing where the future of our own businesses were going to be is we had to make budget calls we had to make you know, thankfully, we didn't have to make people calls at points in time.

25:17But it was a, it was a complete transformation of how we thought and how we acted, and bringing teams along that journey, in a really uncharted waters for all of us. And then seeing success on the out, on the outside of that. And I think one of the things, you know, as I'm thinking through this answer one of the things that I um and this takes me back to my days at Tenable is the change some of the changes we made through the COVID time were actually really good choices and so um my goal for the team was and I was kind of holding up the dam because everybody wanted to it to go back to the way it was, but we actually were doing some really good things.

26:10So yes, we've made it through, but we're not going to go back. Let's keep on going forward and figure out, you know, how we learned to be more targeted, how we learned to be, have a better digital presence, how we learned to engage with our customers in a way that we never had before. And it was working. Yeah. So that was maybe a long winded day. No, no, no. Listen, it was, it was perfect. Cause it was from you. Okay. Looking at the time, we're going to wrap it up. If you've listened to any of my episodes, I always ended the same. I ask you five very random personal questions just to get to know you want to on a more fun level.

26:51And if you're ready, here we go. First question. What's a song that instantly puts you in a better mood no matter where or when you hear it. Hmm. Sweet home, Alabama. Care to elaborate or just that's it? Yeah. So it takes me to my college days. I was, I was in a sorority. I was a Delta Gamma and that was our theme song. And so, yeah, it brings a smile to my face every time. Got it. If you weren't doing what you do now, what's the completely unrelated job or passion you would chase just for fun? Oh my God, this could be embarrassing, but I say it all the time. I'd be a backup dancer. Yeah. I'd be a backup dancer for a big concert.

27:28Taylor Swift. I don't know if it's Taylor Swift, but like I've said, Justin Timberlake in the past. I love that. That's embarrassing, but that's okay. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. Okay. If someone shadowed you for a day, what would surprise the most about how you actually work? I need caffeine definitely in the morning and I work better under pressure. Oh, interesting. Okay. I like that. What's the one thing most people always seem to get wrong about you at first impression? That's a tough one. Well, framed another way would be what's something people would be surprised to know about you, to learn about you?

28:06I think you just shared. You want to be a dancer. Yeah, exactly. I think, you know what? I think, and this is maybe too Pollyanna, but I truly am as positive as I come across to be. Last question. It's a two-parter. Oh, boy. If I ask your closest friends, what is your superpower and what is your kryptonite? My superpower is, so my friends call me, some of my friends call me the director because I can make decisions and get people to do things, you know, get people in line and to do things orderly. My kryptonite is bad attitudes. Okay. So listen, what a great conversation. I can't, I knew it was going to fly by.

28:49You are amazing. Thank you so much, Lisa. Lisa Harrop-Yulee, CMO of Gigamon. Thank you for being on the CMO Whisperer Show. It was fantastic. Thanks for having me. Look forward to doing it again. Well, that wraps up another episode of the CMO Whisperer Show. I hope you shared this episode with your friends. And if you have not already, please subscribe to be kept up to date on all the latest episodes. And if you're so inclined, leave me a review on your favorite podcast platform. Thank you. Thank you.