Innovation Beyond the Hype - Jacquie Corbelli

0:00Jacquie Corbelli:Hey, welcome to the CMO Whisper Show. I'm your host, Steve Olenski. Part marketing practitioner, part ad agency veteran, part journalist, I was a writer for Forbes for 10 years. I've had so many insightful conversations over the years with business leaders, to athletes, to celebrities, to of course, CMOs. The only difference now is instead of sharing those insights through written form, I'm doing it this way. Welcome to a special CES edition of the CMO Whisperer. We're recording from the middle of the noise, the demos, the buzzwords, and the bold promises that define CES every year. And today, I'm sitting down with someone who's not just watching transformation happen, but has spent her career driving it.

0:45Jacquie Corbelli:I'm joined by Jackie Corbelli, founder and CEO of Brightline, a pioneer in interactive and engagement-led CTV advertising, and one of the earliest female founders in Antec. Jackie has helped turn television from a passive screen into a two-way experience for Fortune 100 brands and the world's biggest streaming platform. That's not all. She's also the author of Changemaker, a new book that distills the leadership frameworks behind scaling innovation, leading through complexity, and building organizations that actually move the needle. What a novel concept. and in her work advising the UN and the Vatican, that's I said the Vatican, on sustainability and technology, and you get someone with a rare systems-level view of where marketing, leadership, and responsibility are heading.

1:38Wow.

1:38Jacquie Corbelli:Wow. Let's get into this, Jackie Corbelli, my new fellow. Wow. Thank you so much. I'm very happy to be here with you. It's my... Very excited about this. It's amazing. You can't see our view, but our view of the Vegas Strip and the sphere is yeah just close your eyes and pretend you're here okay yeah so let's do something i'm going to start with cds first okay okay and like what actually matters coming out of this week okay right now when you walk the floor this by the way we're recording this all but is this the second day yeah i don't even know it's actually the first official first official yeah yeah so when you walk the floor this year what are you looking for like real signal versus recycled hide.

2:18Yeah, I got to be honest with you. Please. I don't really walk the floor that much. Okay. And what's what I love walking the floor, but it's hard to get there. You're the CMO whisper. So something you must know is that the advertising industry and the advertising community, which has obvious ties to consumer electronics, right, has grown and grown and grown its presence here at CES and migrated over to a certain area of the convention. So we're subsumed in the ethos of advertising, mostly at the ARIA, C-Space and all of that. And so I spend most of my time here. But to answer your question, I love cars.

3:07So cars, robotics, and I've been coming for like 15 years, right but the big question you asked is what what happens after ces yeah i mean keeping all the advertising part out of it for a minute because you could argue a lot of things there i don't think much comes out of ces i mean nothing you know what i mean by that is what concrete tangible things can we point to yeah come out of ces you know me can you say that about any real convention really?

3:39Jacquie Corbelli:You said it. I'm nodding my head. Okay, good. All right. And I'm sure there's people listening that are going to say, that's like total, you know, that's not true. Yeah. Great. Then that's, that's value I'd love to hear about. So let's, let's pivot to like a CMO's perspective. Yeah. Yes. So from a CMO's perspective, are there technologies, what do you, what do you think they should be looking for if you're talking to a CMO and not even just CES, just in general. Yeah. Well, it's both actually. They're here and wherever they are. I've had the great privilege of working with amazing CMOs. I think I might have mentioned in one of our previous conversations that I worked with major corporations in creating executional blueprints on strategy.

4:33and obviously the marketing piece of that is huge and bringing it all into concert with the front end and consumer and the back end and operations and so on. Everybody knows what the hottest thing is right now to not just know about, but to really try and understand the value of, and that's AI, right? So whether you're here at the ARIA and people are talking about their agentic solutions, right, for programmatic advertising, or you're over at on the floor looking at, you know, the this year's version of robotics and how rag and agentics are coming together. It is like this is like the web was right.

5:15It's coming in fast and furious. The difference is just how fast it's coming in and really trying to comprehend, get your head around where the value lies for you. And I think that's going to come from two places. It's going to come from how it supports you in being more efficient, seamless, and most importantly, effective in every function that surrounds the CMO's role, every function. And you'll be bringing in the McKinsey's of the world, just like every other phase and stage of restructuring or redesign that you have to do business redesign. But I would actually have a suggestion, which is people talk about AI literacy a lot now.

6:05I would suggest trying to ground yourself a little bit before you bring the McKinsey's in. As a former consultant, we all know this, right? CMOs are smart people, and you're the CMO whisperer, and so you know this too, which is consultants are really good at keeping themselves in business. And so what I would say is it will go a long way if you can develop a little bit of AI literacy before you bring in the consultants. Have some ideas, right be inductive don't put yourself in a position where they're going to lay out the world like you're gonna boil the ocean and then it's gonna take X amount of time to figure out exactly where you should be focused right now and so on because it's moving so fast you just a it's a waste of money and it always has been but more important right now from the standpoint of competitiveness and and and really sort of winning as a CMO yeah it's just

7:02Jacquie Corbelli:happening too fast I liken it to you remember when social media came about yeah and everybody and her mother brother male and sisters were social media experts right right and we can solve all your problems and we know everything about social yeah this is that on steroids times 5 ,000 yeah and I don't want to say there's nefarious people out there but there are various people out there. That will take advantage. Thank you. Are taking advantage. And the CMOs I talk to, they say some of what you're saying about, I know I need to get educated on my own first before talking to X, Y, Z. The problem is, and we're not going to boil the solution here unless I'm going to hear your thoughts.

7:49Jacquie Corbelli:The problem is, how do I know from all the noise? Oh, I think there's a way. It's called AI. So here's the interesting thing about the moment we're in. I mean, there's a lot of interesting things about the phone we're in, but related to what you're describing.

8:07AI is going to tell you, if you're a CMO and you go on to any one of the chatbots, right? And by the way, if any one of them says they're the best, they're not. It's a total arms race out there. And I think I can't remember who just did the study, but ChatGPT didn't come out number one on any aspect of any type of search on with the chatbots. And so and that's because they're all moving, you know, at the rate they can. And the compute out there is whatever it's allowing and to how fast they can evolve. Anyway, you go on a chatbot and you say, what are the top five things that a global CMO should be reflecting on as they think about how to take advantage, the best advantage of AI in the next 12 months?

9:01Like the more specific you can be with these prompts, the better, obviously. When you say, where do I start? That's where you start. that's where you start

9:09Jacquie Corbelli:fair enough right yeah I've said that in so many words as well I just wanted to hear what you said yeah because you know I don't know anything so you're the expert in being no actually I know a little bit about AI which is really fun I'm sure you do I'm sure you do let me just pivot here are CMOs underestimating how fast consumer expectations are shifting I don't know if they are or not does it vary I mean I don't talk to too many CMOs these days? Probably. Probably. I would say that you mentioned social media and some parallels there. I agree with that. If you don't mind, I want to pivot a tiny bit from where we are right now because I think it relates back to your question.

9:55First of all, a major difference is that AI is a means by which you do things better, period. You can do things better and faster. you can jump the shark, so to speak, in ways you couldn't before workflow wise. Right. So I see the technology and I believe that the most value we'll see from AI will be that. How fast can a company in any industry move to take advantage of the workflow efficiency and improvements that come from AI? Okay. Going back to behavior, it's going to be behavior that drives how fast what I just said happens. But in terms of consumer behavior, which is, I think, really your question, I think so.

10:47Because I'm watching, I mean, you never should over extract from your own, you know, life experience, but you don't have to go far to see how much it's already become an integral part of the way you go through your day. Like people are constantly on it.

11:04Jacquie Corbelli:Right. Okay. So I will tell you that I think there are that yes, they're probably underestimating it. Here's the, here's the upshot though in television, maybe not. And I say that because my company Brightline, we started it over 15 years ago and it took a pandemic as a catalyst for streaming to take off in the living room. There's no one that doesn't stream in their living room now. But if you look before the pandemic, it was Netflix, Amazon. Now everybody, you're streaming everything. You're streaming Peacock. You're streaming Paramount Plus. You're streaming it all, right? Okay. The reason I use it as an example is TV is a different animal.

11:50They move at a snail's pace. So in terms of behavior, a viewer will only be able to change its behavior as quickly as the medium evolves from the standpoint of how they feed that behavior. and I can use a very specific example. We've been in interactive television advertising, I feel like since the beginning of time. Okay. The programmer, which is now the streamer, the studio, the content guys, right, are basically turning television, the streaming television experience into a modern day version of cable. Okay. As viewer, we're still watching disruptive ads. Now think about that for a minute. We're still watching disruptive ads.

12:37Why? Because Because that's what a Nielsen, who we still rely on, think about that too, a survey company in this digital age with everything that's going on. And we're still investing the vast majority of our advertising dollars in the television environment in a 30-second spot. And that's partly because we know how to do it, but it's also because that's what you're being offered in the streaming world. What does that mean? It don't change very quickly. You know, so many people thought the upfronts were going to be gone 20 years ago. I remember David Verklin saying, we don't need an upfront anymore.

13:17And he's a friend, so I don't feel like I'm talking out of turn here. But, you know, we all revel in the fact that it's like it never felt like it made enough sense to do that year after year after year. But it's still here. Here we are. So from the standpoint of these, you know, driving factors to the way behavior with a television viewer experience are concerned they may not be they may not be i will tell you though that it's gonna get very interesting this year when it comes to watching that behavior change you look at what netflix is doing you know they're gonna they're good they're in they're one of their strategic priorities is gaming yeah okay all right bright line my company we just we just made over our entire platform to become agentic to create experiences that nobody has to actually create individually they come to you because it's agentic and you decide whether it fits okay when you combine things like the opportunity to do interactive gaming on a television set versus a gaming console or on your or on your laptop or or desktop that's big that's That's a big behavioral change.

14:32Up till now, you can't game on your television, really. This year, you will be able to game on your television. And it's a first. I wouldn't say it's revolutionary because it shouldn't be, but it is a first. And so that behavior, I would watch out for that. As a CMO, watch out for that because that is going to be one of the first things that changes. Last year, it was shop-ability. Shop-ability was a big so-called behavioral change. Is it though?

14:58Jacquie Corbelli:I was going to say, did we see that? I don't think we, well, I don't think so. I don't have the evidence. Not on the scale. Right, exactly. It didn't change that quickly, right? But I will say that shoppability has been out there a long time. And it's, you know, so to think the behavior is going to change overnight just because it's available. Right? Yeah, no. Okay, but gaming is massive. Gaming is massive. Like we're testing it with, and on television, it'll take a different form because you want them lighter, you know, simpler, something you do when nothing's on that you want to watch. Yeah.

15:34That kind of thing. But I do think that's going to be an interesting one. The hypothesis would be that's an interesting one where we might see some new behaviors and they might be faster than we thought. Okay. So let's stay on that track for a second in terms of, so that's one thing you see coming in 26.

15:54Jacquie Corbelli:Anything else? Yeah. I mean, it's the agentic stuff, really. And what I mean by agentic, I've got to be very specific because the term is being thrown around so loosely. I mean, agentic is the easiest way to think about it, right, is it's just a sort of a hyper capacity to automate, you know, micro tasks and to do it with a type of intelligence that needed to be guided by a human. And that's not necessary either. right so for our business it's sort of to say okay you've got a design what you want that interactive experience to look like then you've got to create some mocks then the advertiser has to tell you whether it's good enough and how they wanted to refine it then you have to iterate then you have to actually create it in the format that can be delivered to each of those apps then you have to decide whether you're gonna change content what are the things that going to happen.

16:51Then it has to render. Then it has to write. All these things are separate and they are all different with every single app. So when we go to Agenic and you don't have to do anything anymore, that's huge, right? That's huge. That's a one-stop shop. And it's not just us. Like that's what the behavior is going to change based on how low value activities are being sucked right out of that dialogue between a CMO and a buyer and the service and the vendor.

17:24Jacquie Corbelli:That's huge. Yeah. That's potentially. No, it is. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Between that and the gaming, those two alone. Right? I would love to talk next year to see if, you know, where we are. Well, let's make a date right now. Yeah. I think we should. Yep. Right here, this table and this. This table. What else? I'll wear the same. Everybody wears the same clothes. Yeah. Everybody has to wear the same thing. Take pictures. Tell us about your book. Oh, man. When people ask me to tell you about the book, it's hard to know where to begin. So I'm going to start at the end. Okay. I like that. At the end, which is when I reflect back on everything I've had the great honor and privilege and has been lucky to do, and it's pretty multifaceted, there was a playbook.

18:13It was the same playbook. And I was able to refine my own ability to do the things that I turned out to be good at because I was able to keep refining that playbook. And so the book is actually that playbook. I did it because a friend told me, you got to write a book. But I did it because I remember being early in my career and saying, God, you know, I was restructuring banks. And it was a very, very specific approach. And it wasn't cutting costs. It was creating new products and businesses. And it was, you know, creating these very detailed execution plans and then overseeing it for a year and whatever.

18:51Who does that? Right. Like that's those are very special, like in strange circumstances. But what it does is it actually gives you a way of of looking at things and applying a certain mentality that, you know, that makes you feel like you could apply it. And you could do it anywhere. And that's what happened. So I was in financial services, used the playbook there. I'm not going to get in any more detail unless you tell me to, because there's a lot of detail in all these areas. So there's the finance piece. Then there's the TV and media piece. Then there's the technology and AI piece. There's African development.

19:31There is sustainability, right? The book is there because early on, And I thought if I had only like had a playbook, I can only imagine what more could have been accomplished for the folks that were impacted. So that's why we wrote I wrote. So this is legacy. It's a home.

19:51Jacquie Corbelli:This is legacy. Yeah. Right. Yeah, I guess so. I guess. Yeah. It's a kind of way to say, you know, if I can help somebody else, then, you know, your humility is preventing you from agreeing with me. But I'll say before, this is legacy. This is long after you're gone. People are reading this book. now or it's or it's the catholic italian catholic guilt thing that says i would feel guilty if i didn't leave these breadcrumbs behind you mean when you get to the growing games and saint anthony says i can't write a book exactly yeah yeah i'm saint peter's there i don't know man you you really missed that boat who should read it who's it for you know i i think um i think cmos are going to love it.

20:35Jacquie Corbelli:Why? My chance of observing the CMO function came through that financial services period. And it's not easy. I think that function is very hard. I think you're sort of the person who has to say the buck stops here. In a way, it's like, okay, strategy, you're this. Okay, product, this is here. Okay, brand, this is here. Operations, you're handling that. I'm the one right that has to translate that into what drives your business okay this book revolves around sort of saying think of any challenge slash opportunity that's out there for you eliminate all of the things that could limit you take out a clean sheet of paper and say what would it ideally be OK, this playbook shows many examples of doing that, of actually doing that, getting out the clean sheet of paper, thinking about how it should actually work, looking at the way it does work and creating the path to the ideal and the optimal optimizing.

21:41And I think that's, you know, I think CMOs in particular are probably frustrated by the, you know, by the lack of opportunity to really do that. There's just so many requirements.

21:53Jacquie Corbelli:Oh, I can speak to that. Okay. Sure. Okay. Because I've never been one, but I just observed it. You know, it's like, wow, that's a hard job. You were, you were. And the constant pressure, by the way, right, from the top, you know, and the other areas of the company. I mean, I watch in the financial services industry, people saying, you're overhead. Like, marketing is overhead. Really? Really. I don't know how you do it. I don't know how you do it, ladies and gentlemen. Don't get Steve fired up because I'll just go off on a tangent. But you have no idea how right you are. What a CFO, what a CEO.

22:28I have no idea. And they want to just start with cut marketing. Cut marketing and advertising. What?

22:36Jacquie Corbelli:Right. Like, what? That's right. Hey. Okay. All right. Preaching to the choir. So in the book, you talk about leading through change, not just managing it. What's the difference? That's right. I mean, I think you just, it's easy to be in an environment like that and just feel this. And it happens all the time, even with people, you know, our clients. It's sort of, you have your KPIs. Those are the things you have to win at. A lot of reasons not to act in ways that are going to have big impact next year in the ways you want to define your role as CMO, right? Your leadership, your imprimatur, that's what that means.

23:14It means you can still lead in the official capacity that you're in, achieve what management, executive management decides is important for you to deliver. and know that as a CMO, other things are critical to what you're delivering in terms of value also. And I think where the value of the book is in that respect is sort of like, you don't have to park what you know is important just to hit your KPIs. You can actually do both. And if you read the book, it creates that space. It shows you basically how to create that space, to give yourself that space. It doesn't take all you and it doesn't it doesn't mean you have to like divorce yourself or like have that monopolize your time.

23:58It teaches you how to be constantly doing it in one part of your brain while you're driving everything you need to do.

24:05Jacquie Corbelli:Right. Because we all know we have to multitask. That's not even over discussion. Yeah. I mean, I think this actually feeds me creatively, too. It just it feeds the creative process to do what I'm describing. thing it helps me be a better executive in the day-to-day to know that I'm doing this other piece because it feeds me and it feeds my idea of success you see what I mean I do okay what leadership traits should you well you think you're a CMOs they need they need that they're not getting from a business I think business school is not very good at teaching day-to-day leadership wasn't I mean it's very intellectual.

24:47Like, you know, and most books are just very intellectual. Like, you know, when you get into the environment and your butt is the one that's on the line, defining leadership in that context is way different than anything I learned in business school, right? Like, how do you make those choices? How do you, when do you dig in? When do you confront perspectives that don't align with your own and persist? That's, to me, those are the parts of leadership that don't get taught in an operative way in business school. And that has to do with basically building your own identity as a leader. Like, who am I going to be in these situations?