Inside Music’s Brand Machine - Kerry Gordy

0:00Hey, welcome to the CMO Whisper Show. I'm your host Steve Olenski. Part marketing practitioner, part ad agency veteran, part journalist. I was a writer for Forbes for 10 years. I've had so many insightful conversations over the years with business leaders, to athletes, to celebrities, to, of course, CMOs. The only difference now is instead of sharing those insights through written form, I'm doing it this way. My guest this week is someone whose last name is literally woven into the DNA of modern music, Kerry Gordy. Yes, that Gordy, son of Motown founder Barry Gordy and a powerhouse in his own right.

0:39Kerry and I met many years ago at an event at Harvard. And from that day forward, we've been like brothers, the kind of bond built on truth, trust, and a shared love where creativity meets business. Now, Kerry didn't just grow up surrounded by legends. No, no, no. Kerry literally grew up with them. You know, casual stuff, like running around with some kid named Michael Jackson. Maybe you've heard of him. That kind of normal childhood tends to shape a person. And Curry's career isn't just impressive, it's historic. He managed Rick James from 1996 until his passing, guiding his business, brand, and comeback years.

1:17And on the other end of the musical universe, he played a critical executive role at Prince's Paisley Park Records, helping orchestrate a major joint venture deal that launched the most beautiful girl in the world era and shaped Prince's post-Warner Brothers independence. From growing up around legends to building his own legacy at the intersection of music, brand, and IP, Kerry brings a perspective that's equal parts history lesson, masterclass, and behind-the-curtain truth serum. Kerry Gordy, my brother, welcome to the show. It's great to be here, and you know I love you, Mr. Stevie O. Yes, I do.

1:58Okay, we're going to jump right in. I got to start with the Motown brand, right? And I guess, look, people are going to want to know because you're so famous and your family's so famous and kind of go behind the curtain. How did growing up in that legacy of just, I mean, you've told me stories about Diana Ross and everybody being over. How did that legacy shape your view of like things like brand and brand? Like, remember, my audience are marketers and audiences and walk us into like as a child, a teenager into what you're doing now, that legacy. Well, brand was very important to us, especially, you know, when we started in the 60s.

2:39We were the sound, not just of Black America, we were the sound of young America. It just so happened that our artists were Black artists. And we had to be very cognizant because of the times of how we had to be. So our company had to be clean cut. It had to be very nonpolitical at first. And my father was very, very, he was very cognizant of that fact. I mean, even to the fact that he would put white people on the beach with a beach ball on an Isley Brothers album cover, right? Because he had to get his stuff, his songs racked in the South. And so the Motown brand became the cool place that white folks could go to hear some funky music, right?

3:48Yeah. And also, the Motown brand had to be a safe place, a place where parents and children could listen to a song together. So we were very conscious of brand. Another thing is the quality of the music had to be of a certain level all the time. It didn't matter if other songs would hit and go to number one. We had a standard because we had to have songs that said a certain thing, that meant a certain thing. And it got to the point of where a lot of times people would go into the record store and they would say, what do you have from Motown? As opposed to even what do you have from this artist or that artist?

4:49Because we were so brand conscious that we had to focus on what we meant to the world. So yes, brand is very important to us. That's interesting. So juxtapose that, if you will, again, knowing my audience are CMOs and brand managers and things like that, between the difference between a music and an artist brand and a consumer brand. There's a lot of similarities, right? Well, I would say there's pretty much no difference. A brand is a brand, right? And the point is, is that whoever your audience is or whoever you're targeting, you need to target them the same way, right? I mean, when I managed Rick James, for instance, it's really funny.

5:38When I managed Rick James, I didn't realize something in the beginning. He had a, let's call it a bad brand. When I say bad brand, his brand was mischievous. His brand was sexy. His brand was was off the beaten path, right? His brand was, he was the super freak. Okay. So what happens is, is that when, you know, he, he ended up going to jail for a little bit and while he was in jail as his manager, I couldn't really make any money. So finally, when he got out of jail, I said, Hey, dude, I got to clean you up. I got to get you off these drugs. I got to put you in suits. I got to make you look nice.

6:18I got people need to see how intelligent and how, how great you really are. So we got him out of jail, cleaned him up, put him on the tonight show, late night shows all over the place. And I was so proud because he was intelligent. He was clean. He was, he was on it. Right. And I was so proud of all of the interviews. And you know what happened? my phone stopped ringing. And the reason my phone stopped ringing is because he had built a brand that people expected to see that super freak. They expected to see that irreverent character and that person who went against the grain. They didn't expect to see somebody who was intelligent, that understood politics, that read the paper.

7:07They didn't expect that, right? My phone stopped ringing. So when we had our first chance to show the audience exactly who he was, we actually did an award show. I believe it was the BET Awards or whatever the award show was. We did an award show and I said, okay, Rick, okay, what you have to do to make sure to get this audience back, we have to do something to show your audience that you aren't a punk, right? And so I said, so this is what I want you to do. I'm going to get you the ability to introduce and act or whatever it is. And on live TV, I want you to do something that's going to make your audience realize that you're the person that they think you are.

7:52And said, well, what you want me to do? I said, I want you to say that you met somebody backstage who disrespected you. And don't they know who you are? That you're Rick motherfucking James. Right. And he said, you can't do that. Not on TV. I can't do it. He said, we're going to get in trouble. I said, exactly. Yes, we're going to get in trouble. You know, the FCC, everybody's going to come after us. We're going to get fined and blah, blah, blah. And this is before they had the seven second delay. Okay. And so anyway, he says, I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it. I said, please, please, we're going to be live.

8:28He says, I'm not going to do it, right? So he gets up there, and I'm sitting in the audience. He walks out, and he says, you know, there was this chick backstage that disrespected me. He says, doesn't she know that I'm Rick James? And when he said that, the crowd went crazy. And the next day. My phones lit up and it led to doing the Dave Chappelle show and getting him back into the culture of what it is and from that day on he never needed money again because of brand. I was just going to say that. He, you, the team stayed true to that original brand. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Absolutely. And your consumers, your audience, your record buyers and so on will tell you.

9:20Oh, there's no question. Because if you've built that brand, it's always dangerous to go against the brand that you've built. For instance, when I was with Prince, I ran Prince's company. When I was with Prince, I told him, because Prince was such an incredible musician, and he could literally do a new record every day. No joke. Every day, new record. I'm talking about from beginning, from nothing to actually finished and ready to distribute in one day. And he could do this every day. And by the way, he basically did. And I told him. And he was such an artist that he would do a lot of these esoteric songs that were just kind of whimsical and crazy and all of this kind of stuff.

10:12and he would come to me and he would say, okay, so I want you to put this record out. I said, hey, listen, I can't guarantee that this is not going to be a hit, but I can tell you one thing. All you have to do is give me something funky and sexy. If you give me something funky and sexy with a hook, it will be a hit, right? Because that's your brand. Funky, sexy, good melody. That's a hit for you. Stay true to the brand. You stay true to the brand, you will have a hit. And every time we did that, he had a hit. And it didn't matter. It didn't matter. I mean, even when the stuff couldn't be played on radio, when we did Sexy Motherfucker, it was a hit.

10:55Yeah. Right? Because the point is, is that it couldn't get played, no airplay, this and that. But the fact of the matter is, is his audience, let's say his ride or die fans. Yeah. They went for it. Yeah. Yeah, you told me some incredible stories off the air and some of which we can't repeat here, but we'll be coming out in books that you and I are going to work on together, right? Absolutely. But I want you to share the story about the most beautiful girl in the world and what you did. Remember, this is pre-internet, right? How you got and what was the mandate that Prince gave you? Oh, my God.

11:30I mean, do you want me to tell that whole story? I don't even know if we have time for that whole story. Well, condense it. Okay, okay. Well, he wanted to put out this one record because, like I said, he could put out a whole bunch of records. And he was putting out so many records at one time that Warner Brothers basically said, no, stop putting out these records because it's not an event when you're putting out records anymore. And now when you put out records, it needs to be an event. Right. And Prince was like, listen, when I finish it, I want it put out. They said, yes, but you put out your last record six weeks ago.

12:08And he's like, yeah, I want it out. Right. And so they said, no, we don't want you to put it out. And that's when he went into slave mode, where he put slave on his face. And then he came to the conclusion that he was a slave. And I'm like, wait a minute, how can you be a slave? They just gave us a$25 million non-refundable advance against a$100 million guarantee. What kind of slave is that? Just$100 million. He said, regardless, if I can't put out my records when I want to put them out, I'm a slave to this industry. And I don't want to be here anymore. And I don't want to do this. And I want to do my own thing.

12:52So I don't want to do that. And besides, the person that they signed, Warner Brothers signed, is not me. I said, what do you mean it's not you? He said, they signed prints. And I changed my name to this inaudible symbol, right? And so they can't have any new material from me. If they want anything from me, they can take from what they have in the archives because there's plenty of material there. And I'm like, well, dude, you can't. You just signed a long deal with them. He said, regardless, I didn't sign it. Prince signed it. I said, well, based on that concept, you could commit murder, go to jail, change your name in jail and say you didn't do it.

13:38Right? And he was like, well, whatever. But the point is, is that he wanted out. And I said, wait a minute, because I didn't want out of Warner Brothers. I needed their machinery and so forth and so on. Right? So I told him, I said, okay, listen, let's see if we can make a deal with Warner to let us put out a record on our own since they don't want to put out this next record, which was Most Beautiful Girl in the World. Okay. So he's like, fine. So we go and they made us a deal that, yes, we could put out a record on our own, provided that we didn't use their marketing and distribution machinery.

14:23And we didn't use any of their competition's marketing and distribution machinery. We could only use independents, right? Now, I had a relationship with a guy by the name of Al Bell who used to own Stacks Records. But right before that, Al and I had worked on a couple of songs on his Belmont label, you know, Whoop, There It Is, and Daisy Dukes, and a couple of major, major records. So I said, let me go over to Al and see if he would be interested in distributing the new record from this inaudible cymbal guy, right? Which we ended up having to term as the artist formerly known as Prince. Okay? Yep.

15:10So anyway, it goes, we make a deal with him and Prince tells me, okay, KG, I'm only making this deal because you say that this record is a hit. Do you still believe this record is a hit? And I said, yes, I totally believe the record is a hit. He said, OK, well, if you believe this record is a hit and if it is a hit, I'm going to triple your salary and give you 15 percent of this company that we that we're creating this MPG records. Right. New Power Generation. OK. And I said, great. He said, but if it's not a hit, you're fired. And I said, perfect. That sounds like a great deal to me. Right. And he says, so we have a deal.

15:57And when he went to shake my hand, I said, yes, but the first thing we have to do is we have to quantify in your mind, what is a hit? Right. And I said, so I think a hit is if I can get you top 10 R &B Billboard magazine, I think that's a hit. He's like, that ain't no hit. He said, he's a top 10 Billboard R &B. He said, no, that's not a hit. He said, okay, I'll tell you what. That will keep your job like you have it. He said, a hit is top 10 pop R &B, Billboard, and R &R at the same time. And so I said, okay, well, if top 10 R &B, Billboard keeps my job, that's cool. And if top 10 pop Billboard makes me this new deal, then that's great too.

16:51He says, okay, great. So then I said, but I need two things. One, I need$300 ,000 to market it. And two, I need a kick-ass video that you put together for it. And he said, fine. So he delivered those things to me, the$300 ,000 to market it and the kick-ass video. Okay, so now I do everything that I need to do with Al Bell. We put our money where we need to put it and all of this kind of stuff all around the country, right? And we put the record out and it's out for two weeks. I mean, it's out for six weeks, okay? So now we have this record that's out for six weeks. And I get a call from one of the owners of WBLS.

17:38And that was the number one station in the nation at the time. New York WBLS, right? And the guy, his name was Oliver Sutton. He was the nephew to the owner of the station, okay? And he calls me and he says, hey, KG, I'm just giving you a courtesy call. Your record's been on for six weeks and it's not performing for us. It's not researching for us. right so i said oh well you know just give it a couple more weeks it'll start researching for he said no no no it's been on six weeks it's not working give us another record i said well i don't have another record now i didn't because remember if this record doesn't happen i'm gonna be fired and if we lose the record in new york that's gonna send a signal to the rest of the country that I have a dead record, okay?

18:35I knew I couldn't lose it in New York. So I said, listen, man, just give me another two weeks because I'm telling you the record is going to heat up for you. He said, listen, get me another record because this one doesn't work. We're pulling it. I said, no, you can't pull it. He's like, we have to pull it. It's not researching. I said, you don't have to pull it. Nobody is going to change the station because you played a Prince record for a couple more weeks, right? And he's like, listen, we have to pull it. I said, no, you can't pull it. And I'm going to tell you why. I have done an incredible amount of research on this record.

19:14And we have all the research to prove it. And our research came back and said it was an eight-week record. It took eight weeks for the audience to grab onto this record. And he said, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. He said, just give me another fucking record. I said, I can't give you another record. Believe me, it's an eight-week record. I said, okay, wait a minute. Before you make a decision, what is it that you want from me? How can I help you? Now, this is very dangerous at this time because of all the payola and stuff that was going on in the music industry. And that's how executives like me get caught up, you know, in a place where they actually can lose their liberty by doing, you know, by, you know, paying off or whatever it is.

20:05Right. No good. Now, I got myself caught in this position now where I'm really sitting there talking to a radio guy and saying, well, what is it that you want? Right. So he says to me, OK, I know what I want. And I was totally scared because I knew he was going to say something ridiculous, like, give me a pound of cocaine and something. Whatever. I didn't know what he was going to say. You women, whatever he said, right? I didn't know he was going to say. So he says, OK, I want you to get me. And I'm like, oh, shit, here it comes. He says, a Prince tour jacket. A Prince tour jacket? I said, cool, man.

20:50I'll get you, because we have promotional tour jackets. This is nothing. Sure, man. I'll get you a promotional tour jacket. Right? And I hung up the phone. As soon as I hung up the phone. Oh, oh, oh. And if you play it for two more weeks. Right? He said, cool. So I hung up the phone. I called Prince's manager, Gilbert. I said, Gilbert, motherfucker, up the tour jackets. So anyway, it goes, now I have to go to work. So within that next day, I said, OK, we need to get this. We need to get every radio station. Oh, take all of our money from the rest of the country, right? And put literally half of that money in New York alone.

21:39Not just in New York, in the Q and the reach that BLS can transmit to. Right. So if it can't transmit, I didn't care about that. We had the money only in that area. Right. So we were spending whatever money we had to spend in that area. So then I hired kids that were very cool because I had some people in New York. Get me all the cool kids from NYU or the cool kids from Harlem or the cool kids. And let's get them business cards that say that they are representative of Paisley Park. and let's give them 100 records apiece and let them go into all, with their cards, go into all the clubs, especially the clubs that nobody ever services.

22:24You know, the little funky clubs, the DJ pools, all of those people. And you're going in there with 100 Prince records and you're saying, hey, we brought you some records. Would you play them? Blah, blah, blah. And now these cool kids are now able to get into these clubs too, right? Because they're being let in for free. They got their Paisley Park card. and everybody's treating them well, right? So then we went to all of the stores and we said to all of the stores, the independent stores and the chains that, okay, listen, this is what we need you to do. We need you to give us in-store play, right?

23:02Which is playing the record when people are in the store. We need you to give us in-store video. So any stores that had videos would be playing our video in the store. We're going to give you these chotskis. We're going to give you these bins so that the bins are, you know, that say Prince, Paisley Park, blah, blah, blah, and this and that, right? So that when people walk into the store, they're experiencing this whole Prince thing, right? But anybody that racks our record at the cash register, we will give them the ability to sell our record for$0 .99. And they, so we would sell it to them for$0.49.

23:48They could sell it for$0.99 if they racked it at the counter. And then the last thing we did is we hired all of these kids from New York to call the stations and to request the record. Because here's the reason that the record wasn't researching, because they were only playing it at 4 o 'clock in the morning, three days a week, right? So nobody was hearing the record. That's why it wasn't researching, right? So the fact of the matter is that so we started having those people, these kids, calling. Now, here's the thing. When the kids are calling the stations saying, oh, we're requesting Most Beautiful Girl in the World, we had to lay it out in a format where, you know, on the first day, a few people called, and the next day, a few more, and the next day, a few more, and the next day, a few more, and the next day, a few more, right?

24:37Because we couldn't let them know that we were fabricating this marketing push. Right. Okay? Because that's a death knell. So anyway, it goes. A week goes by. We got all of this stuff going on. Right. Oh. And the key is, is that I think it was Tuesdays at that time, whereas every Tuesday, all of the record stores would report their research for the charts and everything so that people could know exactly what was going on in all the stores. Right. And they would also report it back to the radio stations that, you know, I mean, the radio stations would call all the stores and they would get the report of how much was selling in their stores so that it couldn't be fabricated, a number made up, right?

25:26Right, right. So what happens is the first goes by, and as the week goes by, they're being played in all the clubs. They have all these tchotchkes going on in all the stores. They got the in-store play. They got the in-store video. And somebody's walking through the store getting everything. And then they get up to the counter, and they don't have the Prince record in their bag. And they're like, well, shit, 99 cent. Might as well put the Prince record in the bag, right? When they put the Prince record in the bag, it rings up that it's a sell. Now, what they don't know is every time I put it in the bag, I'm losing 50 cent.

26:00Right. I'm losing money every single time somebody rings up my thing. But all of the stores basically made that deal with us because everybody wanted to have a Prince record to be able to sell for 99 cent. Wow. OK. So now the whole week goes by. Right. And I get a call from Oliver Sutton. OK. And the call went something like this. Hey, man, I just want you to know we're pulling your fucking record. I said, what are you talking about? He said, because you're obviously, you know, making this happen. You're doing this. I said, we're doing what? You're making these people make these phone calls to our station.

26:43It never happens like this. I said, what are you talking about? He said, we're pulling your record. And I said, wait a minute. How can you pull my record before you do your research? Your research doesn't come out until tomorrow. And he goes, well, okay, we're going to do our research and we're going to get back to you. Right. But we're pulling your record. I said, man, don't pull my record because I don't know what you're talking about. I have no clue of what you're talking about. Right. And so they do their research. And of course they call store A. How many, how many Michael Jacksons? You know, 300.

27:18How many Madonnas? 293. How many princes? 400. 400 princes. Okay. Okay, next store. So they call store after store after store. And every store that they call, they had more Prince Records. So than Michael Jackson, Madonna, all of these people, right? But it was only in the cume of BLS because that's the only place I made the deals, right? And they kept calling and the sales were legitimate, right? And so he called me back. He said, I can't believe this. This is crazy. I said, what do you mean? He said, you were right. It is a three-week record. I mean, it is an eight-week record. This record is a motherfucker.

28:05And I said, I told you, man, it's an eight-week record. I hope you enjoy your jacket, man. I said, because you made a great decision for the station. He said, I did, man. This is incredible. He said, this is incredible, right? We hung up the phone. And then from that point on, I had to then slow up the calls from my people because now real people were calling the station and they were requesting it. Right. And they knew they weren't playing it. And but instead of upping my rotation from very low to light, they upped it immediately to medium rotation immediately. Right. Well, what happened? What happened?

28:49See, they weren't the only people doing research. The other station that was big in New York, RKS, and the other stations that were in the surrounding areas, they were doing research and they know that they didn't even have the record on playing. And they're like, wait a minute, BLS is killing over here, playing this Prince record that's selling all of these crazy records, right? We need to start playing this record. And so all of the other stations then started playing the record. And you know what happens? Now people are hearing it. Once people started hearing it, it genuinely became a bonafide hit.

29:28So now it's a hit. And all of the surrounding cities now, when we're moving the record around the country, are thrilled to put it on. Thrilled to put it on in a high rotation. And we took it all the way throughout that eastern belt, down through the south, all the way through the west coast, and then back through the Midwest and over to London. And it became his biggest record to date ever in London. Wow. So wrap it up. What ultimately happened with you and your career and with Prince? Well, what happens is, is that I did an amazing job, such an amazing job that Warner Brothers came to me and they said, wait a minute, Casey, you did such a great job.