Leading Marketing with Humanity - Catherine Solazzo

0:00Hey, welcome to the CMO Whisper Show. I'm your host Steve Olenski. Part marketing practitioner, part ad agency veteran, part journalist. I was a writer for Forbes for 10 years. I've had so many insightful conversations over the years with business leaders, to athletes, to celebrities, to, of course, CMOs. The only difference now is instead of sharing those insights through written form, I'm doing it this way. My guest this week is Catherine Salazzo, Chief Marketing Officer at AppFire, a leading global provider of enterprise apps that connect the world's top platforms. Catherine overstees AppFire's global marketing and communication strategy, driving brand expansion, go-to-market acceleration, and deeper engagement across developer and partner communities.

0:48With more than two decades of experience at companies like Syntax, TechData, and IBM, she's led marketing transformations, built demand across multiple routes to market, and championed cloud and AI adoption worldwide. And finally, a fellow of the Marketing Academy, Catherine is also a passionate advocate for purpose-driven leadership, mentorship, and building cultures. At last, Catherine Salazzo, welcome to the show. Thanks, Steve. You'd think I was up for like the Nobel Peace Prize or something, but I appreciate the intro. It was awesome. You are welcome. I have a version and career doing, just recording intros for people.

1:27I love it. I love it. So I want to start with your career, your background. Like we were just talking off air a few minutes ago, but you've had some of the biggest names, IBM, Tech Data, Syntax. It spans operations, sales, international markets. And these are experiences that really not every marketer gets, right? I want to jump into how those cross-functional roots influence the way you lead marketing today. I've been very blessed, first of all. I think a lot of that is attributed to great mentorship, being part of great companies that really invest in their employees and, you know, aspiring executives.

2:04And that's absolutely put me on a path to be able to have, you know, different roles, experiences across the business, both, you know, globally within different markets. So I look back and think, you know, I feel like I had lived many lives, you know, during that time. You know, certainly when I started at IBM, I'm from a long history and legacy of IBMers. We're talking my parents, their parents, my brother, uncles, you know. And so there was quite a bit of family legacy there when I started as an intern and then, you know, became a full-time employee. And what I really learned about the company is for someone who was a millennial coming in, most of my peers jumped around to different companies.

2:58And it was unique to stay at the same company for more than 15 years. But what that allowed me to do is really understand deeply how a business runs by being able to be in the communications department, the sales division, be in product marketing, understand a global role, a local country role. I did three years on assignment in Japan. I returned and became the chief of staff for the first chief digital officer when we were creating the digital business within IBM. Then I went to California on assignment and led global developers and startups. And my final role there was really in the partner ecosystem business, which is 30 % still of IBM's revenue.

3:50So you kind of get this PhD in not only different disciplines within business, but you also get these experiences that shape your leadership capability. And I have to say, being in some of those high development programs really shaped the way that I operate, both as a person and as a leader. So very grateful for all of those experiences. You know, there's nothing more humbling than going to a foreign country, not speaking the language, having to understand cultural nuance, as well as the way that business works there is so completely different than the way it would work in North America, as an example.

4:41And you really have to adapt and really eliminate any friction around learning, understanding. And I think it's made me a better leader for sure. Yeah, it's not every marketer or every person, I should say, is going to get to travel different locales like you. However, would you recommend like someone who's either coming up as a marketer or even or at the other end of the spectrum, who's a CMO, to ingratiate, at the very least, get a working knowledge of the other areas, the sales, the ops, et cetera? Absolutely. Think about, especially in the marketing discipline and function, our role has changed so significantly in the last 20 years.

5:29You know, we could make jokes about madmen and advertising and pitching, you know, ads and things like that. But think about the marketer today that has to be almost equal parts left brain and right brain. You need to be able to understand how business works. You need to be able to understand a P &L and how to leverage your financial posture to make better decisions and project and forecast your ROI as a leader. and all while operating dollars in market, being agile, all of these different things. And not once in there did I talk about being a creative, right? So by understanding business, by being an operator, by understanding how your stakeholders think and work only makes you a better, a better leader and marketer.

6:33Well, they're, they're your, this is Captain Obvious of probably many obvious things I'm going to say during this, but in those, they're your customers. They're. They're stakeholders. So it's, it should be the same dynamic, right? What do your customers want? Exactly. And, you know, as they say, walk a mile in the shoes and things like that. But, you know, in my last role, I led marketing, of course, but I also led global sales operations. I led the inside sales team, customer experience. And now all of a sudden you have such a greater understanding for why leads don't get followed up on or why teams aren't well-trained enough to have good customer conversations and why the platforms aren't doing what you need them to do to bring visibility to the funnel.

7:24Right. And, and so now, you know, being in this role, I really understand where to place my energy and efforts and where to build those relationships because I get it, you know, they're, they're not adversaries. Like it's, it's a true understanding of how to operate across the business. I love the use of that. They're not adversaries. And you and I both know, cause we've been around more than 30 seconds that you can very easily fall into that, you know, us against them. Absolutely. Toughest relationship on earth is between sales and marketing always, right? That'll never change. You know that.

8:02But it doesn't have to be adversarial. It doesn't. No. Cooperative versus competitive, right? And I think, again, just being able to understand the dynamics of how that part of the business runs, you know, is very enlightening. I think you've described yourself, correct me if I'm wrong, as a servant leader. I did. Right. What does that talk to us? What does that look like in practice, especially in this global high growth environment? It's an interesting one. I think there's many different leadership styles. This one for me is the closest to the way that I like to, you know, live my role within the organization.

8:39And it's in a way where instead of the top down approach, I feel that I'm in service of my team, my employees. And I am there to remove blockers. I'm there to provide guidance. I'm there to help eliminate friction when it exists. And it means having a flat organization that really doesn't operate on hierarchy, but on a need of business or skill of employee. And a big part of that is also being able to run what I believe is an agile function. A lot of learnings from the days where I was leading more technical teams and working with builders and engineers and developers, there's a lot to learn about the way that they operate where, again, it's not about ego.

9:32It's really about getting to release and being proud of what you bring to market. And I find that that kind of helps to just remove any of those friction points between teams where there's lack of clarity on who does what. So I really like to come in, even now, I'm a little over 90 days in my new role. And the first thing I did was deploy a new operating model with the team. And I'm deeply involved in that, not to micromanage, but to understand where they need help and where they need clarity. And again, you know, servant leadership to me is how do I show personal interest at every level of the organization?

10:22And so one of the things that I do when I come in are what I call rapid fires with the team. And I'm lucky in this company and in this role, I came in and have about 70 people in the organization. And as of next week, I'll have completed a one-on-one with every single person on the team. And that really helps me understand what's really happening. Not just what my leaders say are happening, but what is actually happening. And then that goes into our strategic direction. Clearly, mentorship, culture building, these are things that are really important to you. But how do you and even how for all those listening, you know, CMOs and leaders, how do you create space for both amidst all those daily demands?

11:10You just do. I think the people that have helped me along my career made the time. So so do I. And again, I think it's everything from a planned meeting to that panicked call or text at nine o 'clock at night where someone needs advice on an offer letter or someone's fearing they're going to get laid off. Like you, you just make the time and, and it's because people made the time for me. And, um, so again, I think that's, uh, again, being in service of the people that count on you is extremely important to me. Massive respect for you for saying that, because I am, I am definitely a cut from the same of paying it forward for those who helped me.

11:58I think we all have that responsibility not to get on my soapbox. No, I love it. I love it. So as I mentioned, you're a fellow of the Marketing Academy, right? And that focuses heavily on leadership development. It does. If I kind of put you on the spot, is there one or two insights from that that's fundamentally changed how you lead? Absolutely. I have to say the Marketing Academy is probably the best education I've received. And don't tell my alma mater, but even beyond my undergrad. It'll be our secret. Okay. And everyone else who's listening to this podcast, but it's so special. I'm a graduate of that program.

12:41In fact, this morning, one of the key benefits that we get as alumni, I'm also continuing to be a mentor to the current class, is they get access to the virtual academy. And I was able to get six people from my team in there this morning. I let them know that they're in that cohort. So incredibly exciting. And the things that I learned that I take away even to this day is community is so undervalued, especially at this level. It's one of the loneliest roles to be at the top of an organization and to feel like, am I crazy for the things I'm

13:28keeps going on in our WhatsApp group. I mean, yesterday, there was like probably six or seven messages of people sharing job roles, people asking for help with agencies, recommendations of talent, like the ability to be part of a community is getting really tough. I think we're all very busy. We don't have enough time. And investing in relationships is really hard. But But going through an experience like we did together at the fellowship program has completely bonded us for life. So that's the first one is how important community is, especially when we're remote, right? The second thing is I still have a lot to learn.

14:12And you kind of get into this day-to-day where you forget yourself, even if you're focused on providing education for your team, you forget that you also need to stay educated on what's going on. And one of the biggest things that I learned, and this program is specifically for CMOs who aspire to be CEOs, is really understanding the role and understanding, you know, what is your boss looking for? What is the board looking for? How do you prepare to tell a story based on ROI, like all of these skills that when you become a CEO, a CMO, you never get like a manual that says, oh, and here's how you CMO, you know?

14:59And, um, but this education was so impactful for framing the way I approach a role, the way I enter a role, the way I communicate my strategy. So I don't know, that's way more than three, but it just an incredible education vehicle. I can, I just love the passion in your voice right there. Yeah. I love it. I just poured out of your, that poured out of your soul. And I love that. Yeah. Yeah. It's a special experience. I mean, I still, we're so connected to this day and, And, you know, Sherilyn, who is both the founder and, you know, CEO of the program has poured her heart and soul into the program.

15:45And you feel how dedicated they are, the relationships they've built to provide the education. It's an incredible thing. And if anyone is lucky enough to be sponsored, you know, by their leadership to join, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. Yeah, no, no. Listen. Okay, I'm going to give you the stage here now to talk to future CMOs. Okay. Okay. What are the skills and traits that they need, especially now, as you know, I know I'm preaching in the choir, marketing is becoming increasingly tied to revenue, product, customer success. You're talking to a group of MBAs or, you know, young marketers.

16:27What are those skills or traits they need to have? Well, funny you say that. So next week, I'm actually heading up to New York to speak to a group of grads at NYU. And so I've actually been thinking a lot about, you know, what is the advice I'm going to give to them? And again, the balance of creative and sort of that more linear analytical process driven, I have to say the mix for me today is probably 75 % on the left side of the brain and the balance on the right. And so being very aware of what it takes to get investment, as an example, to bring a business plan forward, to be able to communicate what the outcomes are going to be, not the tactics, I think is a really good place to start.

17:26Refining your approach to how you enter a new role, I see that like sink or swim people easily. And being able to understand like what does good look like to the people who matter is also hugely important. You know, when I take a new position, first of all, I remember when I took my first C-suite position and I had no clue. You know, I remember being so excited. There was no manual. No, none. The press release comes out. You're so excited. Your LinkedIn posts, you know, it's a big deal. And then you're like, oh my gosh, what do I do now? And then reality sets in you. It does. It does. And so I really think developing a playbook about your first 90 days and how to use it wisely is the most important thing I've ever done.

18:18And now it's rinse and repeat when I come in. You get your narrative down. You understand the key milestones that you need to hit in that first 90 days. You make the hard decisions on your team's skills, structure, tools, all of these things, and really understand the health of the business that you've taken over. Nobody talks about those things, right? And you just show up every day and go with the flow or you really architect what every day looks like. What are the templates you use to communicate, gather information, share? All of that is so, so important. And now being on my third, third? Yes, my third C-suite position, I'm in a groove.

19:13This has probably been one of the easier onboarding experiences I've had because I'm ready. You know, I know exactly what my approach is. It takes time. It does. It does. It's the LinkedIn post, the press release. That's all great, but that's fluff. Yeah, it is. And now I'd love that you're in that comfort zone of, if you will, like, okay, I know what to expect, but you still had to go through those growing pains. Absolutely. Yeah. And you still refine, right? In my next role, I'll refine again and get better and better. Anybody who tells me they have everything figured out, I just dismiss them because there's no such thing.

19:51Especially now, as I pivot into the biggest elephant ever in any room is AI, right? And AI data, they're not just tools, you know, but they're drivers really of transformation. We knew data. That was AI. Curious, how are these technologies reshaping your views of marketing strategy and execution? Well, I have to say, we've gotten this far in the interview and we haven't said AI yet. So major points for us. I'm proud of myself. Yes. Yeah. Nice job, Steve. Nice job. It's kind of the thing that you know you need to be completely absorbed in and you also don't want to talk about anymore. You know, it's so pervasive.

20:31And the thing that I think we're all struggling with, especially as marketers, are where are the guardrails? and that's something my community and I talk a lot about in terms of, remember the days of writing a paper and you had to cite your sources and things like that? Well, that's out the window. What happens if one day there's some regulatory check on information curated there or images curated there, all of these things? So there's a lot to think about. But the things I'm focused on right now with my team are where are the natural points within our operating model where AI makes sense. And that's both on the buyer's journey, but also within our own internal operations.

21:21And then we're looking at use cases for two things. How does it help us create better and do things faster? Those are really the two things that we're focused on. And create better also means better insights and things like that. So we have a small team that's together now that is working together on different use cases, everything from writing content creation to how do we have better, you know, AI engines on our website and things like that. We're also very deeply embedded in some of our core like MarTech platforms and things for doing better work, getting better insights, operationalizing certain patterns and doing better display.

22:15I mean, there's so many cool tools out there, like Sixth Sense, as an example, that can help bring those insights together around the dark funnel. Now it's about how do those tools not become distractions and interfere with work, but really supplement the human experience. So there's a lot going on there. Not to mention, I'm also in technology and we also sell tools with AI embedded. So we also have to be extremely educated on the way that we're talking about these tools with our clients. And for us and myself, you know, at AppFire, it's all about human assisted, as opposed to human replaced. And I think having a point of view on that, both from an individual marketing perspective, but also being aligned with the company who shares the same values as you is going to be even more important as we go forward.

23:14But yeah, it's a spicy space right now. I mean, there's so much going on. It really is. And your point is so well taken given it's, you know, it's one thing to be like a CPG brand where a CMO, of course, has to, quote unquote, understand AI. But in your role, in your industry, there's that expectation, right? Right or wrong that you and your team and you're in that industry, you're ahead of the curve. Oh, yeah. And it may not be fair or not, but it is what it is kind of thing. We are. We have to be right. We're talking about use cases with our customers on how they use our tools and technologies.

23:52And again, we keep asking ourselves these questions of, okay, well, what does this mean? You know, there's such a ripple effect around AI that's hard to get your arms around. And so as marketers, we're constantly trying to frame and package and make sure there's an understanding of what is the real implication and benefit for your organization of adopting this. And it feels limitless. So it's really difficult sometimes to be able to provide a clear value proposition because, again, they will do things with these tools that we've never thought of before. And it's exciting. It's also a little scary, right?

24:38And so you have to balance. Absolutely. By the way, I love that you used the word human multiple times there a few minutes ago. And my next question is about, and it's for all marketers, right? Like data, automation, everything's at our fingertips. So how do you keep that balance of quote unquote marketing human? Yeah, very hard. Again, I think staying centered around who's receiving your message is always really, really important. Who is the person at the other end of the screen, the person signing the contract, all of these things, you know, it's, it's easy to get wrapped up in, in tools and technology and automation and all of these things.

25:22But for now, at the end of the day, the person who still makes the decision, the person who still influences or uses your product is still a person. So we do a lot still on personas and understanding buying behavior and things like that. It can't go away. I do think the human experience is changing very much. The way people consume and interact and make decisions around things is changing quite a bit. So you have to continue your research and understanding there. But it's been very hard to keep up with, that's for sure. Yeah, it's when I talk to CMOs, which obviously I do all the time, it's that they have to keep one eye almost like on being human, which sounds ridiculous.

26:12Yeah, absolutely. But you really do. Absolutely, you do. And even, you know, forget about just being in, you know, business and whatever, but in these roles, you know, you have to hold on to your identity and who you are and all of that. It's a huge part of the decisions I make, where I decide to work, how long I decide to stay at a company. It all goes into, you know, am I hanging on by a thread of who I am on the inside or is this place filling me up? I think it's, you know, not to lay down on your couch, but I think it's a challenge that all of us are dealing with now. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Okay, looking at the time, we're coming up on the end, and it's time for the random five.

27:05If you've heard any of my episodes, these are five personal questions. Okay. A lot of fun. Here we go. First question. When you think back to your younger self, maybe just starting your career, what advice would you give her? I would tell her that it's okay if you're not the best now. There's still time. You know, I wasn't the best student. I wasn't the best, you know, voted most likely to succeed. I just had my 25 high school reunion. That's interesting. And it's okay. You have time to grow and learn. So be patient with yourself. Are you more of a plan everything out kind of person or let's figure it out as we go?

27:45Plan everything out with no hesitation. I'm insane. You want a second to think about it? Nope. I love that. Okay. Everybody in their career has a quote unquote pinch me moment, right? The time where you thought, I can't believe this is happening. What's yours? I don't know. I think there's, there's multiple. Um, we'll take multiple. I think this, this role for sure. When I, when I, I really, you know, I made a tough decision to leave my last role, which was probably the first time I took control of my own career, to be honest with you. My career was made up of a lot of saying yes to opportunities as opposed to deciding what was right for me and things like that.

28:36And when I stepped into this role, it was one of the first proactive decisions I made for myself. And it was surprisingly very freeing. And I recently, as I said, went back for my 25 high school reunion and had a lot of pride about how far I've come compared to the person who wasn't in the popular group in high school. I was in choir and all of these things. So it's probably more recent than, than not. Okay. How do you personally define success these days? And has that definition changed over time? Absolutely. I'll answer the second half of the question first. Success in your 20s. I remember when I got my first BlackBerry and I thought I was like it.

29:24And I was like, had my BlackBerry on the train and I was like commuting to New York. And I, I just, I thought that was the life. Like I thought I'd made it, you know, now success is seeing the people that you've mentored from the time they were your intern become executives. It's seeing the people around you succeed and have children and get married. I don't know. It's just so different. It's a lot of successes being part of, I think, other people's progress, I think. Yeah, I don't know. It's very different now. Success is not having to worry about paying my bills. It's also about having the time, even at this level, to spend with the people that I love.

30:17So it's a mix. Love it. Last question. When people think of you, what do you hope comes to mind first? I hope that they think I'm kind and I'm fair and that even though I have this great career, it's not the first thing that defines me. Yeah. Okay. Well, Catherine Salotto, CMO of AppFire, you're an absolute treat. Thank you so much for being on the show. Thanks, Steve. It was a pleasure. Well, that wraps up another episode of the CMO Whisperer Show. I hope you shared this episode with your friends. And if you have not already, please subscribe to be kept up to date on all the latest episodes. And if you're so inclined, leave me a review on your favorite podcast platform.

31:02Thank you.