In short
Brands and education companies can win attention by creating engagement, not interruption; AI should augment teachers and help kids build belief and confidence.
Guests (backgrounds)
- Jimmy Smith: Founder of Mind Matters and Amusement Park Entertainment; works at culture/tech/storytelling intersection; cites performance psychology scaling via AI; mentions first signee Lamar Jackson.
- Sequel Smith: Co-founder/president of Classy; creative director; builds culture-first learning across film, social, experiential, digital; has collaborated with Will Smith, Donald Glover, Snoop Dogg, and Damian Lillard.
- Jarrell Smith: Co-founder/CEO of Classy; faith-driven; focuses on kids feeling safe, loved, and “heard”; draws from his own boredom/frustration with school.
- Patrick Johnson Jr.: Co-founder/VP of Classy; executive producer; builds at scale (51mm, Novus content) and produced a top box-office opening weekend film (Till Death Do Us Part).
Key claims + examples
- Attention is “at a premium”; education must feel like culture (not obligation).
- “Veggies in a smoothie” metaphor: make learning palatable by packaging it like what kids already want.
- Personalization = feeling seen (characters, stories, curriculum reflecting kids’ culture).
- Mind Matters uses AI/metahumans to recreate conversations from elite performers (Lamar Jackson) to deliver Dr. Michael Gervais’ mental-performance learnings.
- Classy is supplemental to teacher-led learning; helps teachers overwhelmed with classroom curriculum and supports parents/homework.
- Example: ad overexposure (car ad running repeatedly) makes viewers hate brands; contrast with Space Jam-style engagement.
- Example: Lloyd “Sweet Pea” Daniels—thought he was dumb, later linked to dyslexia; platforms aim to tell kids they’re “not stupid.”
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOAddressing Mental Health
3:45 to 4:49
Discussion on the impact of COVID-19 on mental health and the mission of the guests’ organizations.
“At the highest level, what problem are you actually trying to solve that nobody else is solving for right now?”
Rethinking Education
4:49 to 6:21
Sequel discusses the challenge of keeping attention in education and how Classy intends to package it.
“And, you know, obviously I got sons, got three of them, four of them, five of them.”
Experiential Learning
6:21 to 7:37
Jarrell explains the importance of creating memorable experiences for kids through education.
“I already know I'm going to have a co-host here in Jimmy by the time we're done here.”
Cultural Relevance in Learning
7:37 to 9:21
Discussion on making education feel like culture rather than obligation, and the importance of engagement.
“Patrick, how do you kind of, your lens through all this, how do you, how do you look at this?”
Personal Impact on Education
9:21 to 14:00
Jarrell shares his personal struggles with traditional education and how Classy aims to address these issues.
“It's, it's, it's like, I, I, I gotta go to blank platform or like you're a parent and you're maybe a little embarrassed of certain, you know, like, like, Hey, I gotta get, you know, junior, some extra help.”
Connecting with Students Through Engaging Learning
14:00 to 16:38
Discover how personalized, authentic learning experiences can foster connection in students.
“I don't feel a connection with the teacher, maybe.”
The Birth of Mind Matters and Its Mission
16:39 to 19:18
Learn about the origins of Mind Matters and its goal to provide mental performance support to students.
“So kind of classy gets you in the door, but mind matters feels like what happens once inside your own head, right?”
Leveraging AI for Personalized Learning Experiences
19:19 to 21:04
Explore how AI and avatars are used to create relatable and human-like learning interactions for kids.
“So how we're doing it is you can talk to Dr.”
Building Belief and Human Development
21:05 to 22:46
Understand how early belief building and sharpening skills can redefine human development.
“who wants to jump in here, but if classy builds belief early, right, and Mind Matters sharpens it, are we really looking at a new model for human development?”
Supporting Teachers and Enhancing Learning
22:47 to 24:24
Learn how platforms can support teachers and enhance student learning experiences.
“Some of that is coming from the fact that Sequel and Rell's grandmother, my mom, was a schoolteacher.”
Show all 15 chapters
Brands and Building Trust Through Engagement
24:25 to 28:07
Discover how brands can establish trust by creating engaging and enjoyable experiences.
“Okay, I want to kind of take a broader picture into my general audience, which is mostly CMOs and marketers and brands and all that good stuff.”
Personalization in Education
28:07 to 29:00
Explore how personalized learning experiences can make students feel seen and improve their grades.
“inevitably feel like they're being seen.”
The Evolution of AI in Marketing
29:01 to 31:08
Discuss the impact of AI on marketing, comparing it to past innovations and emphasizing its role as a tool.
“And I want to and looking at the time and we may have to do a part two because there's a lot more I want to get to.”
Future Learning as Entertainment
31:09 to 32:45
Understand the necessity of making learning entertaining to capture student attention.
“It's going to happen in 30 minutes, the next wave.”
Emotional Connections in Learning
32:46 to 34:32
Hear insights on how educational tools can empower students and reshape their self-perception.
“I would say relief and I know it's not one word, but being heard.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Sequel:Hey, welcome to the CMO Whisper Show. I'm your host, Steve Olenski. Part marketing practitioner, part ad agency veteran, part journalist, I was a writer for Forbes for 10 years. I've had so many insightful conversations over the years with business leaders, to athletes, to celebrities, to of course, CMOs. The only difference now is instead of sharing those insights through written form, I'm doing it this way. This is going to be new territory for me, so buckle up, everybody, because today's on the show today, I welcome not one, not two, not even three, but four guests and not just any four. Oh, no, no.
0:39Sequel:Four builders, four creators, four operators who are shaping culture, storytelling, and business in very real ways. Let's start with Jimmy. Jimmy Smith is a force, founder of Mind Matters and Amusement Park Entertainment, and one of those rare creatives who has operated at the intersection of culture, technology, and storytelling for decades. From Cairns Lions to the Smithsonian, from Guinness World Records to reviving iconic brands and platforms, Jimmy's work doesn't just show up, it leaves a mark. And through it all, there's a through line of purpose, creativity, and belief that's impossible to miss.
1:20Sequel:Next up, Sequel. Sequel Smith, co-founder and president of Classy. Creative director who understands something a lot of brands still don't. Believe me, they don't. People don't want to be uninterrupted. They want to be engaged. His work lives where culture actually happens across film, social, experiential, and digital. So collaborating with names like Will Smith, Donald Glover, Snoop Dogg, and the NBA's Damian Lillard. Creating ideas people choose to spend time with, not scroll past. Then there's Jarrell. Jarrell Smith, co-founder and CEO of Classy. Sometimes the most powerful statements are the simplest ones.
2:02Sequel:He operates from a place of faith and conviction, bringing to life what's been placed on his heart. When you listen to him, you'll understand quickly this is not just a business. There's something deeper driving it. And last, but certainly not least, is Patrick. Patrick Johnson Jr., co-founder and vice president of Classy and an executive producer who knows how to bring ideas to life at scale from 51mm to Novus content to producing a top three box office opening weekend film with till death do us part. Patrick understands both the creative and execution side of the game, which is a rare combination.
2:45Sequel:And here's what makes this really interesting. You've got classy on one side, and that's K-L-A-S-S-Y, rethinking how kids actually want to learn. And on the other side, you've got mind matters, rethinking how people unlock what's already inside of them. It's fascinating. They're different lanes, same underlying idea. You know, we've built systems that deliver information, but not necessarily connection. And when connection is missing, everything breaks. So as I put this together, instead of doing a traditional roundtable, we're just going to jump right in. Before I do, guys, I got to take a breath because that was the longest introduction I've ever had in my life.
3:26Sequel:But I'm really happy you guys are all here. Everybody's going to have a blast learning from you guys. Jimmy, as the elder statesman in the room, and I can say that as a fellow elder statesman, I'm going to start with you. Okay?
3:39Patrick Johnson Jr:I thought we were done. After those introductions, I don't know if there's anything else left to say. We have part two now, right?
3:46Sequel:Okay. All right. At the highest level, what problem are you actually trying to solve that nobody else is solving for right now?
3:56Patrick Johnson Jr:Well, I'm also the co-founder of Amusement Park Entertainment.
4:00Sequel:I was in your introduction. I covered that. Good.
4:03Patrick Johnson Jr:I'm not saying you didn't, but I'm answering your question, Steve. Got it. Got it. Okay. Now I see you threw me off track. I don't even know what I was getting ready to say.
4:15Sequel:You know, there's old guys that get distracted easy.
4:19Patrick Johnson Jr:So when this AI, we were talking AI way back in, back in the 2010s, early 2010s. And we just didn't call it AI. So now that we're here, people are freaking out, folks in my industry, what do we do with AI? It's going to take away our jobs. It's going to take away this, this. So it solves that issue is providing a vision for other folks to, oh, not that they copy what we're doing, but they can do something else along that, you know, along the lines. The other thing is the most important one is when COVID hit, mental health just went down the tubes and with kids, particularly with kids. And, you know, obviously I got sons, got three of them, four of them, five of them.
5:04Patrick Johnson Jr:I don't know how many soul brothers I got. But we want to solve that. We want to address that and see if we can fix that.
5:12Sequel:Okay. I want to let the classy team weigh in. Let me start with Seagull. How do you answer that question? What's the problem you're actually trying to solve that nobody else is solving for right now?
5:22Jarrel Smith:Well, education, just specifically speaking on that, is battling attention. You know, attention's at a premium. Like, you have to be razor sharp in your dopeness, so to speak, and to get people's attention and get them to naturally want to engage with what you have going on. Like, even when you talk about algorithms and things like that on social, it's like tailored to you. You know, it's not going to give you a bunch of stuff they don't think you like. They're so advanced, they're going to give you exactly what they know you want to see. So when it comes to education, we have to retool how we package up, you know, attention.
6:00Jarrel Smith:Like it's like putting veggies inside of a smoothie and getting it digestible and getting them their nutrients. But it's mixed in with the mango and the pineapple, things you already like, things you already relate to, identify with and enjoy. So that's the biggest problem that Classia is solving is packaging up education in a way that's palatable to the masses.
6:20Patrick Johnson Jr:That's dope answer, see?
6:23Jarrel Smith:Thanks.
6:26Sequel:I already know I'm going to have a co-host here in Jimmy by the time we're done here.
6:33Sequel:So I can probably just leave and then come back. Jarrell, I want to hear from you and then Patrick about really kind of the same question, but I know you and I had some interesting conversations when we were together about and how much you want to get into your own personal experience?
6:53Jimmy Smith:Yeah. So I'll try to move away from the problem aspect. And like you said, tie in the personal experience and kind of like how we want or what we want kids to feel on the platform. So like, obviously we want kids to learn on the classy platform, right? And to get an education, but we really don't want it to stop there. we want to create an experience that lives beyond our platform you know and everybody's looking for some type of an experience once they're on a platform or whether they see a movie you know whether that is a feeling a memory something that they can take and hold outside of what they just experience.
7:37Jimmy Smith:So if we can, like SQL said, kind of bundle that up and leave the kid, not only with an education, but something that they can remember for the rest of their life and in a good way, if we pair those two things together, it can be a super powerful platform.
7:56Sequel:Patrick, how do you kind of, your lens through all this, how do you, how do you look at this? How do you even describe, like if you're meeting somebody at a supermarket or something, What's Classy? How do you describe it?
8:06Jarrel Smith:I would say Classy is an ecosystem of authentic storyteller that transforms the experience of education today. We take the culture, we take authenticity of what kids see and play games with every day and combine it together to reinforce confidence in learning.
8:31Sequel:sequel now you've said uh ideas should feel like they belong on the internet not internet not interrupted right what what does that look like in terms of education well in terms of that's a
8:45Jarrel Smith:good question so we are overwhelmed with a bunch of ways to learn nowadays to unlock human potential but there's a cap on human potential which is your environment you know your attention what you are naturally want to engage with. So if we can take this education and education just happens to be what we're talking about, but that's like the next wave of companies. When you could package up the veggies in a way that like makes it deliverable, something that belongs on your feed, something you want to engage with, that's going to be the winners. So like, even if you could like package up taxes, for example, and like make it so it's like, no, I actually like want to do my taxes like this is fun this thing and maybe that's a whole other company but you know things like that make it just creating those vessels to make education fractions grammar whatever the case may be powerful i don't know how else to describe it but like belongs on your feet you want to scroll you want to check it out you know you want to see what's going on so what what actually happened
9:47Sequel:sequel part two kind of that is when learning it kind of finally feels like culture instead of obligation, which we've all, you know, those of us of a certain age, that's what it felt like obligation. So when it finally plays like culture.
10:00Jarrel Smith:Yeah. Yeah. And that's a huge stigma in education. It's, it's, it's like, I, I, I gotta go to blank platform or like you're a parent and you're maybe a little embarrassed of certain, you know, like, like, Hey, I gotta get, you know, junior, some extra help. I'm taking them to here for two hours. And it's like something you don't want to really share or acknowledge it's like the elephant in the room but as you know a parent we want to create a platform that like you're like oh wait junior kind of digs this like this is this is they're speaking his language like i couldn't i can't find anything productive to get him to do to stay on this platform like there's no other thing that will do this and then from a kid's perspective it's like no this is not a stigma at all like hey let's go hop on the game but it's classy you know let's, let's go hop on this and check it out.
10:50Jarrel Smith:Let's, let's, we got one more level until we complete X, Y, and Z. And then we complete our fractions unit. Like we want that kind of energy because they feel like they relate to it in a cultural way.
11:00Sequel:Yeah. The, the, the mind shift from obligation. Oh, I hate this. I have to do this too. Almost wanting to do it.
11:07Jarrel Smith:Exactly.
11:08Sequel:Yeah. So Jarrell, I know you operate really from a base of faith and conviction. That's very important in your life. Tell us how that, how does that, what, what's inside of you show up in a product like Classy?
11:19Jimmy Smith:It's a good question. It goes a little bit back to what I spoke on before this, which is really wanting to give the kids something that they can experience outside of the platform. And so, like I said, whether that is love, whether that is a feel good feeling, whether that's a memory that a kid can hold on to, you know, as they go on in life and they can always look back and have relevant things to talk about with their friends or family about what they experienced on the Classy platform. Being able to help facilitate that and give that to a kid, you can be that safe haven, that foundation that they always look back to.
12:00Jimmy Smith:And there's some things that I think about now as an adult, some memories I have where like, wow, I remember that cartoon or that movie that I saw way back in the day. And I remember the feeling and the love I had for that. It stayed with me and it was something that I look back and enjoy even at my age now. So being able to do that and spread that love and, you know, that's essentially spreading love. And that's one of of the things, one of the most important things that Jesus asked us to do. So to be able to provide that and do that for kids is something that we think is super valuable.
12:41Jarrel Smith:Real also, can you speak on how like this, this pretty much came from like a pain point in your life and you want to help kids alleviate that, you know, just from your personal story?
12:52Jimmy Smith:Yeah, sure. So my school story was, it wasn't a great one. I hated school. It was, I was super bored in school. And the way I was being taught, I just didn't enjoy the way I was being taught inside of the regular standard with the regular standard school curriculum. And outside of school, I was actually much happier. I hated going to school. And after after school, I was happier. I was learning actually much more outside of school than I was inside of school. and there's a bunch of different reasons of why that is one of the main reasons we suspect and now that we know because of all of the the metrics and the data and the articles that are coming out is that the school system school classrooms are so big that the teachers can't teach to each individual student that the way that they need to be taught and so there are a bunch of kids that are also coming out and saying hey i don't enjoy the way that i'm being taught in school i'm frustrated.
13:55Jimmy Smith:I'm bored. The curriculum is not connecting to me personally. I don't feel a connection with the teacher, maybe. I don't feel a connection with the curriculum. And so that was very much my experience. And now we're learning that a lot of kids are also having this experience. So for Classy to be able to be a gateway or an extra way to learn for these kids to run to, you know, is something that we feel like can be super powerful.
14:23Sequel:Yeah. You can clearly see and hear in all of your voice, just how personal this is, right? This is way beyond a business, right? And it's a, it's a passion, right? And, and I, and I love that, but I want to, I want to turn it to Patrick for a second. Now you're really kind of the execution layer, right? Like how do you actually build something that keeps kids coming back?
14:43Jarrel Smith:Well, I think that a lot of platforms, I think they start with the result, right? And they start with what they want you to have or the outcomes or this is the test result we need you to have. And we start with what kids love. We start with the feeling that kids connect with every single day that feels real. It feels authentic. It feels like I really want to absorb this challenge and really figure it out. because most platforms and schools are still on that 1902 way of learning. And putting a book in front of a kid, say, memorize this chapter. If you memorize this chapter, you'll pass this test.
Read the full transcript
15:30Jarrel Smith:If you pass this test, you'll succeed in life. But that doesn't build any natural confidence as a kid. As soon as you throw a big chapter in front of a kid, the first thing they're going to say is, I can't memorize all this information. It's impossible. I've never had access or nobody's ever taught me how to memorize. Nobody's ever taught me how to engage in what a fraction is. How am I going to use this in life? And nobody shows them the comparison or analogies to where a fraction is actually compared to your everyday situations. And I think when we start with the core of that and we create systems that deliver that at a constant rate to help kids keep learning with fun and engagement and storytelling, because that's the key element of our platform is the storytelling feels real.
16:25Jarrel Smith:It feels like something they've already seen before, even though they might not have, but it's going to feel like that. And I think that's the way we deliver it.
16:37Sequel:Yeah. So I want to pivot here now. So kind of classy gets you in the door, but mind matters feels like what happens once inside your own head, right? And I want to turn to Jimmy and say, like, this is rooted in something deeper, right? Mindset. And I want to start with where did this idea really come from for mindset? I mean, my matters. I'm sorry. First of all, I want to say those are my boys.
17:00Patrick Johnson Jr:All three of them best. They cook it. I'm proud of that. I'm proud of that. So it started with an AAU team. We have an AAU team called God Squad Athletics. And we had one of the players on the team. His mom was on drugs. his dad was in prison and you never knew what player you were going to get from tournament to tournament and um and so you're talking about tournaments or coach Izzo is there coach K back you know back in the day and whatnot and I actually had a coach that would come up to me and say I like his game man I really like his game I'm like give him a scholarship now and don't go to any more of our games don't waste your time you already know you want to offer him now and then And I had other coaches come, I don't care if he aces the SAT, he'll never get in here.
17:53Patrick Johnson Jr:So because you never knew what player you were going to get from tournament to tournament, game to game. And he was like a baby LeBron. He's like six, seven, 200 and something pounds and whatnot. But one tournament, one game, he might shoot it like Stevie Wonder. Next one, he's shooting it like Steph Curry. So Dr. Michael Gervais is a friend of the family. And he's a performance psychologist. a world-renowned performance psychologist. And he is a doctor, so I can't tell you who he has worked with, but Super Bowl champions, the Olympic gold medalists, NBA champions, so on and so forth, right? So I said, Mike, can you talk to this kid and see if you can help him?
18:37Patrick Johnson Jr:And so you have this world-renowned performance psychologist. He also works with Navy SEALs, working with a 16-, 17-year-old kid. and I don't know, it was about 30 days or something like that, night and day, night and day, literally. And he ended up with a scholarship to USC, ended up playing at Kentucky and went pro, didn't play in the NBA, but he went pro. And you would have never thought that was possible. So all the while, it's percolating in the back of my dome, like, how can we bring that to the masses to help every kid, as many kids as possible? And at that time, there was no way to scale that.
19:18Patrick Johnson Jr:Well, now with AI, we can scale that. So how we're doing it is you can talk to Dr. Michael Gervais, who charges, I mean, you can't calculate how much he charges for what he does. And any kid on the planet that have access to the internet can talk to Gervais, but they don't talk to Gervais. They talk to whoever their hero is. In this case, our first signee is Lamar Jackson. So we signed Lamar Jackson a few weeks ago. And so you will talk to Lamar and all of his mannerisms, lingo, everything. But what's coming out of his mouth as it relates to performance, mental performance, will be Dr. Gervais' learnings.
20:01Sequel:So how, okay, you're using AI and metahumans and you're recreating conversations with these elite performers like Lamar Jackson. I'm going to play the other flip side and go, well, how do you make that feel human and not artificial?
20:14Patrick Johnson Jr:Well, that's the magic of Jarrell over there. He figured out company and how to put all of this together. And we're starting off working with, can I say who we're starting off working with on that, bro? I'll just keep it low key for now. Okay. So we're working with a company, Steve, that just like I'm talking to you, and I have no doubt that I'm talking to Steve, it'll be that same exact way with Lamar Jackson. You will not be able to tell that you aren't going to say, that's an avatar, like a video game. No, it looks like flesh and blood Lamar Jackson. So you can get up in the morning, middle of the night, evening, don't matter, and talk to your hero.
20:57Patrick Johnson Jr:and we'll collect them. And Lamar, praise the Lord, is a pioneer in this. He's our first signee.
21:04Sequel:Okay, so, and I'll open this up to anybody who wants to jump in here, but if classy builds belief early, right, and Mind Matters sharpens it, are we really looking at a new model for human development? Is that too grandiose, guys? What do you think?
21:17Jarrel Smith:Jeez. Hey, hey, I never thought about it like that, but yes, absolutely. If you could start with a belief and gain some traction and just start to believe it's possible, start to get interested in things that you should be interested in, and then you could sharpen that? I mean, that's taking this human potential, all this knowledge that is available to us, and now you believe in it. You start to get interested in it, and then you start sharpening it and taking it to the next level. Yes. To answer your question, yes.
21:48Jimmy Smith:So I want to piggyback off that. SQL keeps using the word sharpening, and I think that's very important. So both platforms are strictly supplemental. So we very much believe in teacher-led education, like real human teacher-led education, human-led creativity. We believe a kid should seek that form of education first. After you get that initial foundation of education or academics from an actual human, then this is what our supplemental platforms are for after that. If you need extra help, extra sharpening, extra help on your homework and extra help on your mental performance, then this is why we're here.
22:32Jimmy Smith:We're here to, like Sequel said, we're here to sharpen it and build your belief in a way that maybe a human-led teacher could not or something that could add on to a human-led teacher.
22:45Patrick Johnson Jr:Let me build on that right quick, Pat. Some of that is coming from the fact that Sequel and Rell's grandmother, my mom, was a schoolteacher. So when they would come home for school, when Rell says, I did not enjoy school, but I would come home and I would learn more at home, obviously he did a lot of that on his own. But he also had a grandma who could relate to him and break things down for him that he was bored out of his mind in school. And Sequel was in advanced math and all that kind of stuff. So that definitely helps and makes a difference as well.
23:19Jarrel Smith:Pete? No, I was just going to piggyback off of what both Seek and Jarrell said about that. And I think from a lens of execution, I think that if we stay tuned and listening to the problems that teachers are feeling when they're feeling overwhelmed with how to structure a curriculum for the day to reach the 40 kids in their classroom, we figure out ways and opportunities for us to lend a helping hand. to the teacher and actually give her, she can give the kid a lesson plan or a game from our platform to go learn before they take the pop quiz of today or a few assignments or go talk to one of our avatars to get a few refresher moments for that to help the teachers and the parents at home too that homeschool their kids.
24:13Jarrel Smith:Cause I'll tell you today, I don't remember half the things that I learned in sixth grade. But if my daughter wants to ask me a few questions, there's a platform that I can actually have her go ask. Yeah, absolutely.
24:31Sequel:Okay, I want to kind of take a broader picture into my general audience, which is mostly CMOs and marketers and brands and all that good stuff. And I want to start with something for Sequel and Jimmy. You both live at the intersection of culture and creativity, right? What can brands learn from what you guys are doing about building trust today, in your opinion?
24:51Jarrel Smith:You want to go first? Go ahead, see, I mean, building trust is like, I guess it's such a broad, slippery slope. I think it's if you boil it down, it's just really creating things that someone just naturally wants to check out, naturally wants to hang. So it's like, you know, dad always gives this example about Space Jam. It's like nobody says, hey, let's go pop on that two hour Nike commercial. They just they're just watching Space Jam. You know what I'm saying? They just they're just engaging with. They like to see Mike in the Nikes, Bugs Bunny. They don't even know it's a Looney Tunes Nike collaboration ad, you know.
25:27Jarrel Smith:So, yes, it's building trust. But it's also just like the way to build trust is just to build things that like, hey, I'm doing this for your enjoyment. Like I'm serving you up a nice dish that's just like something you want to eat, something you want to watch, you know. So I think when you say building trust, it makes it feel like icky coming from a brand, but it's not even really that. It's just like, yo, I'm at your service, serving you up something, not interrupting your normal everyday what you want to engage with. I'm giving you something that I know you think will be great and fantastic.
25:57Jarrel Smith:That's my POV, but I'll pass it to Dad.
26:00Patrick Johnson Jr:Well, you hit it on the head and it started early on when you were talking about your veggies. If brands could understand, nobody wants to. There's an ad that's running. We are Laker fans over here and on Spectrum Sports. There's this car ad. I swear that thing ran 25 times during the game. And I'm not exaggerating. I mean, you guys laugh. Me and Armani yesterday, me and my wife just couldn't take it anymore. It's like, holy smokes, dude. What is wrong? if you're at you're wasting money because right now i can't even and i'm in the business i can't even tell you what the truck was for all i know is some message you tell i it's like what are you trying to do you're making making me hate if i do remember i'm going to hate your brand i'll be sure not to buy it i'll be sure not to do it right yeah so with this whole thing with classy with education, helping kids want to learn and have fun doing it and not even know that they're learning per se.
27:04Patrick Johnson Jr:Same thing with Mind Matters is nobody wants to sit up there with an adult, a 12 year old doesn't want to sit up there with an adult guy and have them delve into their brain. But Lamar Jackson, oh, I've talked to Lamar Jackson all day long. That's cool. And they're getting the help that they need. That's what brands and Sequel alluded to. That's what brands can learn from this is serve up your product in a way that I want to care, that I want to know that it's enjoyable to learn about whatever it is that you're selling.
27:40Sequel:Yeah. And it's, you want to feel right. Something it's that emotional that you want to hit. And, and Jarrell, I want to, I want to put this to you about, you know, brands, you know, and everybody talks about personal, personalization, but really people want to feel is they want to feel seen, right. And how How do you build for something like that?
27:58Jimmy Smith:That's a good question. I believe part of how we personalize the platform for the kids will play a big part in how they inevitably feel like they're being seen. And because personalization isn't just about, or at least with our platform, personalization is not just about recommending the right piece of content or recommending, hey, we think you should be at this level of fractions and you're over here. It's not just about that. It's about really a kid opening up the classy platform and feeling like this was made specifically for me. The characters, the story, the curriculum, when oftentimes, and this is in a bunch of studies and articles, but oftentimes when the stories, the curriculum, the teacher even reflects the kid's culture, what the kids are immersed in, when the teacher looks like when all those things connect, the kids really feel seen and they and they get better grades.
28:58Jimmy Smith:I'll stop at that.
28:59Sequel:Yeah, no, I got it. I got it. And I want to and looking at the time and we may have to do a part two because there's a lot more I want to get to. But I want to get to this. I want to jump ahead for Jimmy and everybody can answer this. But I want to start with Jimmy about these. You know, we've all been around long enough to see multiple waves of innovation, especially those of a certain age can talk about different waves. Right. But what feels different about this one, you know, specifically AI to you, Jimmy, when it comes to just brands and marketing in general, it's,
29:26Patrick Johnson Jr:it doesn't feel different. It's the same, it's the same doggone thing. When they first started using, you know, created language whenever that was and stone tools and writing on cave walls. And it was all about communication and both platforms are all about communicating something that you, that you need. and it just kept evolving. And we weren't here then, but when they came up with the TV back in the 30s, late 30s, early 40s, people were freaking out because it was only the radio and print is all you had. Or if you went to a Broadway show or something like that, and here's this TV is going to come on.
30:10Patrick Johnson Jr:And the deep thing, if you watch the actors back in the day, they're acting as if they're on stage. Right. Because that's where the actors are coming from. And they had to learn how to use that and learn to use this new medium. And that's where we are with AI. It's just a new way that helps you do things better. And back to Classy and the fellas mentioned this, all it is is a tool. It's a tool for the kid. It's a tool for the teachers. This is not, and Rel said, it's not to get rid of teachers. Heck no, like I said, their grandmother was a teacher. It's a tool for the teachers to teach better.
30:52Patrick Johnson Jr:And they're already great, but this is going to augment what they do. And so that's the way I look at this. It's not different. It's just something that takes it to the next level. And I'm already trying to figure out what's the next thing because AI is here. Now what's happening next?
31:08Sequel:And that's how you have to look at it. It's not going to happen in 30 days. It's going to happen in 30 minutes, the next wave. You know that. Patrick, do you think the future of learning is entertainment?
31:19Jarrel Smith:I think that the future of learning will have to be entertainment, will have to be entertaining. I think that the only way that we are going to be able to help kids build confidence in developing the tools they need in real life are meeting them where they are. And they love video games. They love movies. They love cartoons. They love engaging with their friends. So I think that entertainment and building community will have to be the way that all platforms are going to have to transition in order to help the kids. to add on to what patrick's saying it's like that just happens to be where the attention is so it's like it has to be entertained because that's you know where that's where the attention is yeah but like if kids all of a sudden in 100 years are into farm animals and they're just like obsessed with them we're gonna have to use you know the farm animals to teach it just happens to be the mechanism of today but yes yes i agree a wholeheartedly with what that's it real quickly even though
32:19Jimmy Smith:we're saying entertainment, that doesn't mean it's void of the, the, all the things that come with the natural ways to actually make learning stick, which is struggle, confusion, persistence, like all of those things are mixed into entertainment. And so I just want to, you know, make that key difference. It is entertainment, but we still, the way we're teaching it, we're still including those main forms of learning.
32:45Sequel:All right. I want to wrap it up rapid fire here if we can and Jimmy I'm going to start with you what are one or two words that you want people to feel when they they go through classy and and mind matters God enjoy okay sequel I want you to feel like you relate and click like relating and then that click moment
33:04Jarrel Smith:whatever that word is for a click I want that click so okay that's those are my two words relatability and the click.
33:11Sequel:Patrick? Excitement and real.
33:14Jimmy Smith:And Jarrell, bring us on. I would say relief and I know it's not one word, but being heard.
33:20Sequel:That's okay.
33:21Patrick Johnson Jr:Steve, can I say a couple more things before you sign this off?
33:25Sequel:Sure. Why not? You're my co-host. I can, I can.
33:31Patrick Johnson Jr:I want to, it's not going to be called Mind Matters. We're changing the name. So I do want to, if somebody gets out there and they're looking for Brian matters, it's important. And we haven't decided what the name is going to be yet, but that needs to be there. And the other thing is, it's this tool, this thing is revolutionary in that it lets a kid, here's what I want to say about this. Both of these things are letting a kid know that they can, they are not stupid. There was this kid named Lloyd Sweet P. Daniels, basketball player out in New York. And you may have heard, street legend. He'd sit in class and he thought he was dumb.
34:13Patrick Johnson Jr:And so that's why he was so good at basketball. He'd skip school and just work on hoops, right? And then once he, it wasn't until he, but he got on drugs and whatever. And, you know, he eventually made it to the league, but it was a long and winding road because he thought he was stupid. Couldn't find out he was dyslexic. And nobody told him.
34:31Sequel:Yeah.
34:31Patrick Johnson Jr:This, not that everybody's dyslexic, not that everybody has whatever, whatever, you know, different issues, but these platforms will let a kid know, no, you're actually pretty dope. You're pretty smart.
34:44Sequel:By the way, I did note, Jimmy, did you pick up when Sequel referenced a certain movie? What basketball player he referenced?
34:52Jarrel Smith:I didn't. Who do you think? Sorry, I misspoke. I meant to bring up the LeBron version.
34:58Sequel:Who did you say? The inside joke is the team Jordan versus team LeBron. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's all right, Seagull. We got it documented. You said Jordan, so it's done. Got me, got me. Welcome to the team, Seagull. Well, listen, guys, thank you so much. I really appreciate your time. Definitely want to do a part two. Thank you again. Thank you, Steve. Appreciate it, appreciate it. Well, that wraps up another episode of the CMO Whisperer Show. I hope you shared this episode with your friends. And if you have not already, please subscribe to be kept up to date on all the latest episodes. And if you're so inclined, leave me a review on your favorite podcast platform.
35:42Sequel:Thank you.
From the publisher
On today's episode, I welcome not one, not two, not even three, but four guests and not just any four. Four builders, four creators, four operators who are shaping culture, storytelling and business in very real ways. Jimmy Smith is the founder of Mind Matters and Amusement Park Entertainment, and one of those rare creatives who has operated at the intersection of culture, technology, and storytelling for decades. From Cannes Lions to the Smithsonian, from Guinness World Records to reviving iconic brands and platforms, Jimmy's work doesn't just show up; it leaves a mark. And through it all, there's a through line of purpose, creativity, and belief that's impossible to miss.
Next up, Sequel. Sequel Smith, co-founder and president of Klassy, a creative director who understands something a lot of brands still don't. People don't want to be interrupted. They want to be engaged. His work lives where culture actually happens across film, social, experiential and digital, collaborating with names like Will Smith, Donald Glover, Snoop Dogg and the NBA's Damien Lillard, creating ideas people choose to spend time with, not scroll past.
Then there's Jarrel. Jarrel Smith is the co-founder and CEO of Klassy. Sometimes, the most powerful statements are the simplest ones. He operates from a place of faith and conviction, bringing to life what's been placed on his heart. When you listen to him, you'll quickly understand that this is not just a business. There's something deeper driving it.
And last, but certainly not least, is Patrick. Patrick Johnson, Jr., co-founder and vice president of Klassy and an executive producer who knows how to bring ideas to life at scale, from 51 millimeter to Novus Content, to producing a Top 3 box office opening weekend film with Till Death Do Us Part. Patrick understands both the creative and execution side of the game, which is a rare combination.