Why Great Marketing Fails - Liz Crisafi

0:00Hey, welcome to the CMO Whisper Show. I'm your host, Steve Olenski. Part marketing practitioner, part ad agency veteran, part journalist, I was a writer for Forbes for 10 years. I've had so many insightful conversations over the years with business leaders, to athletes, to celebrities, to of course, CMOs. The only difference now is instead of sharing those insights through written form, I'm doing it this way. My guest today is Liz Crisafi, a transformational marketing executive with more than 25 years of experience building iconic brands, accelerating growth, and creating customer experiences that drive loyalty and business results.

0:42Over the course of her career, she's held leadership roles at IHG Hotels and Resorts, Hornblower Group, Discovery Communications, Eastman Kodak, Kimberly Clark, and Ogilvie, with experience spanning hospitality, travel, media, entertainment, consumer products, and franchise businesses. Liz believes great marketing starts with hospitality by understanding people, anticipating their needs, creating memorable experiences, and building relationships that last. It's a philosophy that has guided her career and helped brands create moments customers remember and most importantly come back for. Liz, welcome to the show.

1:20Liz Crisafi:Thank you so much, Steve. I'm so excited to be here. Long time listener, first time caller. You may be the first one who's ever said that, so bonus points for that. Hospitality as a marketing mindset, I know that's one of your tenets, right? And I know you often say the future marketing lies in the principles of hospitality. Now, that's not something people typically associate with marketing. So let me start, but what do you mean by that? Well, I mean, well, first of all, let me just start with the fact that when I started my career, there was nothing that was to do with digital marketing. There wasn't even a degree in college.

1:54Liz Crisafi:So dating myself back to digital when it first came on board and how you leaned into the technology of it. When you are actually thinking about AI and how AI is on the forefront of what everyone is talking about, we're asking the question of how AI is going to change marketing. And I think fundamentally we're asking the wrong question. We need to look at how as AI changes everything, what's going to be the most valuable aspect that we as marketers can do differently? And for me, the answer is hospitality and making every single moment matter and count in your interaction with your guest or your customer.

2:37Liz Crisafi:And I think that's really fundamentally when you think about hospitality, how you can apply it to marketing and the way you make someone feel, not just get them to buy your product, but make them feel something at every possible interaction with them. Okay, that's really interesting, but let's get a little more granular now. So what are some things that marketers who are not in hospitality can learn from the hospitality? So regardless of what they're selling, software or sneakers or anywhere in between, what are some things they can learn from the hospitality industry? So in hospitality, when we look at the way that a guest or a customer experiences staying at property, it's not just the moment they walk in the door, right?

3:24Liz Crisafi:It is the moment that when you first start dreaming about taking a trip or a vacation and all those little moments and that interaction at every point of the travel experience all the way through when you're recalling that vacation and that moment in a hotel that was the best moment. And so when you look at that, whether you're selling a widget, a product, or an experience, what is every interaction that you have with your customer? And how are you providing relevant, real-time, you know, opportunities to engage with them in a meaningful way? People don't want to be sold to either. They want you to make them feel something.

4:09Liz Crisafi:And I think that's part of hospitality at the end of the day. Your brand is a part of someone's life. And that's, you know, an invaluable experience that we take for granted as marketers. Sometimes we're looking at KPIs and we're looking at where someone's not converting or, you know, specifically the data. And the data is important for us to look at, but then we have to dig deeper and to understand a human behavior and the opportunity for us to show up differently when there is friction within any part of that journey. It's really interesting the way you worded that, that brands are part of people's lives.

4:48And I can see people rolling their eyes as I'm saying this, or as you said it and going, you're way too hyperbolic. It's not. It's not. Like if you look around your house and in your kitchen and what you wear, it's you're part of someone's life, like it or not. And if you look at it through that lens, kind of, you know, it's a really interesting. I just wanted to make note of that. It's a very profound thing you said.

5:11Liz Crisafi:Yeah. And I think that that aspect too, Steve, is where you can look at buying something right in the moment. And that may be a one-time purchase. So maybe it is hyperbolic in the theory of getting that initial point of transaction. But the way that you make someone feel and the way that brands are part of people's lives are what keep them coming back to. And that's part of loyalty is building a relationship with someone. It's not just about your CRM and creating triggers or creating content that is how do I get them to purchase the next thing? But you have to build a relationship with someone.

5:51Liz Crisafi:We've all been in that moment where you bought a product and you're trying to upsell me, maybe even before I've completed the transaction, or immediately as soon as I bought something from you, you're selling me on the next thing before I've even had a chance to tell you, I like your product, I don't like your product, or here is my experience and how you can improve it. And I think that that's where a brand can have a much deeper connection with people, and it's so important to think about it that way. Could not agree more. Let's get into the business of making memories. Love that line. And you talk about helping brands create moments people remember rather than simply transactions.

6:30What's the difference and why does it matter today more than ever?

6:33Liz Crisafi:When you look at, again, AI being something that we're all leaning into is going to help us with democratizing content and being able to create things that we never expected to be able to execute in the marketing funnel, if you will. But I think when we were looking at creating memories and you're looking at the opportunity for you to humanize that experience, I think that creating a memory is something that will stay with you long after that initial, you know, ad is served. Am I making you feel something? I'm making you care. I'm making you share. I'm making you remember me. And that that memory is is so important.

7:20Liz Crisafi:And then when you look at, you know, if you think about hospitality, again, creating a memory of a return on that experience, not just a return on your investment, but a return on the experience that becomes the currency in which you recall as who you are as an individual, but also how you think about that brand and how you want to engage with that brand in the future. Yeah, that's really interesting. So now I want to kind of pivot to, I think what you've called, or I'm calling it from awareness to participation. And for years, marketers, I have my hand raised, obsessed over awareness. But today you believe participation is the bigger opportunity, right?

7:59So what's changed in consumer behavior that's made awareness alone no longer enough that it's that participation?

8:06Liz Crisafi:Yeah. I mean, when you think about awareness, even back into we were trying to amplify our message and get as many eyeballs as possible to reach as many people as possible. reach and frequency was the term, you know, back in the day. And now it absolutely is about participation and the way that you are engaging with your content and a brand, but it's not just about speaking to someone and amplifying what you want to say. It's how do you create an opportunity for a person to engage with your brand and it become part of who they are as their DNA, right? And participation in that brand is absolutely part of where you can kind of change from a transaction to a relationship and to someone who's almost invested in your success as a company.

9:03Liz Crisafi:and that part of participation you know you've heard people talk about like you have skin in the game well as a consumer you can have skin in the game by having a brand mean something more to you than just a logo or just a one-time transaction it is something that is who i show up as every day or who I can create this emotional resonance with, like, how I want to grow as a person, too. And I think there's just so much opportunity for brands to think beyond just that transaction. And that's what I mean by participation. I mean, great thing is with influencers or content creators or social commerce, you have more opportunity than ever to be able to do that.

9:53Liz Crisafi:Even if you're a product sitting on a shelf at a retailer, You can do that now in a way that is critical to how you stay top of mind, even when you're not thinking about buying that product or that experience. Now, but there's a line, right, that brands have to watch about crossing. Yes. Getting to that creepy line or whatever you want to call it. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And that's part of hospitality and the fundamental of showing up that way is, like I said, like a relationship. When you're first with, you know, dating someone, you don't call them five times a day. You don't send them texts all the time.

10:33Liz Crisafi:And then you're like, oh, that person's a stalker. When you are looking at your life cycle or your seer, and if you're constantly communicating with someone who's not engaging with you, stop. You're becoming the stalker in that part of the relationship. However, if you completely ghost them, then they're going to forget about you and they're going to move on to something else. So there is a fine line, too, of understanding what are those critical touch points? What are the moments that matter? Whether it's their birthday, whether it's a special moment or whether it's a next best action that you should take in a relationship with a customer that creates something like, you know, relevant and meaningful that gets you to be able to do.

11:16Liz Crisafi:to that next purchase, but not in a way that is really eroding trust in your brand. Yeah, because look, I know this is obvious to listeners and marketers, but marketers have access to all this information about consumers, especially consumers that they've had for years kind of thing. Doesn't mean you use it. Doesn't mean you tap into that just when you want to. You have that responsibility of using that very diligently and carefully where you know where that line is. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And I mean, look at the last time you've been to a hotel as an example, too, though, you go to the front desk and they know you, they should know you.

11:57Liz Crisafi:They've been trained on using the data to say, thank you, Steve, for returning. I know the last time you stayed here or maybe it's your birthday. There's some special moment. And the delivery of that moment is so critical in the way that you create, you know, the opportunity to feel seen and valued and that I've gotten a return on choosing that particular hotel or that brand or that loyalty program. And you can apply the same principles in the way that you're thinking about any brand, whether it's healthcare, whether it's a retailer or whether, you know, it is again, And something that you purchased online at Amazon as a product, it's like there is that opportunity for you to have that engagement in a very meaningful way using data, being able to apply what you know about the customer, but also understanding the key signals of intent and opportunity for you to look at where you can show up differently to AI right now.

13:01Liz Crisafi:and the amount of opportunity to create engagement and content that is unlocking opportunities across every brand, every product. But if you don't think about the way someone feels at the end of that engagement, then you've completely lost them. Service recovery and hospitality is really critical at any point when you've had a bad experience. because you can lose more than 50 % of your customers if you had a bad experience, you showed up to that front desk and they didn't recognize you or if you had a bad experience and your room was dirty. But if you win someone back or you understand that engagement of, I created something that helps you understand that I had a bad experience and I'm going to make good for it.

13:52Liz Crisafi:You can win back 95 % of your audience by doing that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You just, you brought up a really interesting dynamic that I could see some people going, let's just, let's just hypothetically play this out for a second and play along with me. I'm an online only company and I'm listening to this going, okay, Liz, this is great, but I don't have any, but there's no front desk, right? There's nobody greeting. Well, there is, it's called your website. Yeah. Right. And I can see people going, this doesn't apply to me. It absolutely does. Just because you don't have a physical person greeting someone at a physical location, you still have someone who their front that you're an online company's front desk is their website.

14:29Liz Crisafi:Oh, yeah. I mean, outside look at technology companies, but think about banking as an industry. I can't remember the last time I talked to an actual person when I, you know, I haven't gone to talk to a teller or dealt with anybody online unless you had a problem. But when you're looking at that trust that you're building with your experience and a technology, whether it's support, whether it's real-time helpful questions and being able to respond to that, whether it is ultimately also training the people that are behind the technology, all of that is part of how you show up, whether you're an actual person or not.

15:09Liz Crisafi:There needs to be this psychology and the way you make someone feel a part of that brand trust that you're trying to build that's critical to whether or not I'm going to bank with you in the future. Correct. Am I going to trust you with my money? You know, which is a big, big question, obviously big decision. Yes, exactly. I mean, let me talk about loyalty for a second here. You said loyalty goes well beyond what's inside a CRM. Yes. What does genuine, genuine loyalty look like to you right now? Loyalty is absolutely something that people can get wrong as much as they can get it right. But loyalty is not about transactions or points or creating acquisition or engagement.

15:54Liz Crisafi:It is, I feel valued as your customer. I have made a choice to purchase something and come back as a customer, and I'm getting a value exchange for that. And I think that, you know, the value exchange can be how your, you know, if you have a loyalty program where you're earning points, yes, you want to make sure that you're have a lot of experiences or things that you can redeem those points for. And so there's a value there. But it's just as much about the recognition of I know who you are. I know your preferences. I know what you're looking for from in the moment, I'm providing the right answer for the question that you're seeking.

16:42Liz Crisafi:And loyalty creates those moments that matter at every interaction. And that's where people come back, right? It's about coming back. Loyalty is about seeing that I have a need for this product, this brand, this experience in my life that creates, you know, that one-to-one relationship that I can't live without. And I think that it may be once a year or it may be once a month, but that's where loyalty kind of comes in. And you can't take for granted the long-term as well as the short-term. Yeah. As I mentioned in the beginning, you've had stops at companies like Kodak, Discovery, Kimberly-Clark, ISG, different industries, different business models, right?

17:27If I were to ask you, what are some lessons? That's a lot of different experiences, a lot of different aspects. What would you say are some of the key lessons you learned along the way?

17:35Liz Crisafi:You know, again, I look back early in my career of Kodak being the largest brand in the world that had recognition and awareness and, you know, the opportunity to look at, you know, digital and technology and being able to stay relevant and look at what the future is happening as well as what's happening in the moment. But Kodak was all about making memories. They were a part of people's lives that you created this bank of, you know, snapshots of someone's entire life shot on foam. And that is absolutely, you know, about memories and special moments. And I think that Discovery was about storytelling and being able to, you know, take, you know, the opportunity of television and tell people's story in a really authentic, relevant way.

18:31Liz Crisafi:And then I, she was about loyalty and then Hornblower and City Experiences was all about building trust and safety as well as experiences out on the water. And I think that all of those things were about being able to impact industry and drive commercial performance and drive commercial impact. But at the end of the day, it was really about hospitality. Hospitality played a role in all of this. I just didn't know it at the time until I kind of took a step back and said, I was a part of people's lives through all of those. And that's where a brand, you absolutely need to drive commercial performance.

19:07Liz Crisafi:You need to look at the data. You need to be able to plan for the now as well as for the future. But if you actually miss the part of where you're creating an engagement, and we talked about human in the loop. Let's take human out of the loop. Let's just say human experiences and the way that it creates those memories. That is actually what will resonate and drive repeat purchase and will drive people coming back. Unfortunately, Kodak got there too late. They're making a comeback. I'm rooting for them. But that is part of where, you know, for me, it's been really important for me throughout my career to take that and apply it to how I market.

19:51Liz Crisafi:Because the marketing is the easy part. It absolutely is what, you know, it's going to get more and more complex, but it's going to be the hard part is not losing our humanity throughout. I wish you could. Marketing is the easy part for those who didn't hear that. That's the point. We make it hard. We do. We do make it hard, but it is absolutely, you know, it's the fun part too. It's the fun part, right? We're in the business of problem solving. And I love the fact that marketing changes every day and there's always some new problem to solve. But if we forget who we're talking to. Exactly. Exactly.

20:27And I got to ask you about this, the commencement speech.

20:31Liz Crisafi:Yeah. Right. You gave. And it was about redefining success at any age. But tell my audience, where did you give it? Who was it for? What inspired it? Just share with us about anything you want about that commencement speech. Yeah, that was a fun and also scary moment of, I've given a lot of speeches in my career, but that was the one that as I walked out and I had an opportunity to give a commencement speech at my alma mater at Georgia Southern University. And it was, you know, 10 ,000 plus in the crowd at Paulson Stadium. And, you know, I thought long and hard about what is the right message to the next generation.

21:09Liz Crisafi:And this was even before AI became, you know, really prevalent, unlike it is today, because this was back in 2022. But it was very much a redefining success at every stage of your life and every stage of your career. because when I started my career, you know, I had a different view of what success would look like. I had a different view of who I was, what I wanted to do. And then, you know, as I went through my career, I redefined that whether it was when I became a mom to when I, you know, went through my leadership journey and went up through the ranks at different organizations to now where I am, you know, at the peak of my career and being able to lean into becoming the best CMO that I can be.

21:59Liz Crisafi:It was it was more about don't always think of your success as a rigid thing. It needs to evolve as you evolve because you're different at every stage of your life and you you learn more and your experience is different. And that was that was my message. And I hope it made an impact on, you know, that that next generation, because it can be very daunting coming out of college. My son is going through that. Like, what do I want to be when I grow up? I'm like, don't think about, it's always great to have that vision of what you do want to be when you grow up, but don't feel like your journey's not going to change because you may not end up being exactly what you thought you were going to be or do what you thought you were going to do.

22:43Yeah, it's exactly right. But let me pivot for one second to people who are not just graduating college, but have been in the workforce. And if someone listening feels like they're behind in their career or wondering what's next, what do you want them to hear?

22:56Liz Crisafi:I think that for me, it's how do you reimagine yourself and redefine yourself? And sometimes things happen to you that you don't expect, but it is taking those moments and looking at, you know, what's going to challenge you and what is your purpose, right? Always follow what you know is your superpower, too. I love, you know, the analogy of everybody has a superpower. Sometimes people just don't realize what it is until later in life. And some people know it right out of the gate. And when you're going through immense change and transformation, it's not just at organizations or it's not just with technology.

23:36Liz Crisafi:It's a lot of times it's internally. And you have to think about what you love and what you're going to lean into that's your passion and just follow that. You know, it's again, it's the the idea of you can you can fail at a lot of things, but you might as well follow your passion and you follow your things that that you really want to to grow and do that is going to bring your own personal fulfillment. And even if you fail at that, you feel like you've accomplished something versus trying to fail at something that you would hate. I can't add anything to that. It's perfect. I have a final two part question before we get to some fun.

24:10When Liz Krasafi looks ahead five years, two parts, what's the one thing you hope marketers stop doing and you hope they start doing?

24:17Liz Crisafi:Well, that's a great question. I think that what I would hope that they start doing is continuing to be vulnerable. We don't know it all. Continuous education and learning and vulnerability is critical to your success. Because if there's anything that I've learned throughout my career is the one thing that's constant is change. And so start making sure that you are learning something new every day, always. I think stop doing is just worrying about the things that you can't control because there's so much complexity in marketing. There's so much that can be paralyzing and trying to do everything.