A conversation with YouTube’s rising star BENOFTHEWEEK

28:49And he like blows my mind every time. Wow. That's the amazing thing about the video essay genre in general. If it's done right, it answers a question that you didn't know you wanted an answer to. Exactly. And it's like, I didn't know I was interested in one of the mascots from McDonald's, but turns out actually I am. It's pretty interesting. Okay, the YouTube poop thing you just brought up. I want to go deeper into that. Let's address the stink in the room. But I'm curious if there's other, like from when you first started watching YouTube to now, if you have like clear thoughts of other genres or other moments in time of YouTube history that you could describe to us.

29:24Like I didn't know about YTP. Like what are some of those other eras that you were aware of that like I look back and I think in pretty broad strokes of like, you know, vlogging and then, you know, like the challenge era. Like, but what were some of the eras you were aware of? I mean, like from the get go, like Minecraft, like I love Minecraft even before YouTube. And then, you know, there was like the real kind of edgy side of YouTube that I was so tapped into. Like I was watching like Filthy Frank, Leafy, all of them. And I think that's like a side that like will probably never come back to YouTube, probably for the better.

30:02Filthy Frank meaning Joji. It's not crazy that Joji is. It's really crazy. I watched that man take the pubes of multiple YouTubers and bake it into a cake and then eat it and then throw up and now he's at Coachella. I was sitting there at Coachella like wow. Yeah, truly one of the most amazing transformations ever. I mean it's kind of tough to put those things together though of like yeah wait that's the guy who's now like a really talented musician like a joji music video will make you cry yeah yeah it's the same guy but but it's similar like the rocka rocka boys like that's nothing for me no one knows no no you're alone okay the rocka rocka boys they're brothers who um have been doing pranks on youtube for like 11 12 years and like really nuts pranks like kind of like nelk boys pre nelk boys and they went off youtube for a while and then they just made their first horror film with a 24 and it's like the trailer just dropped and it's so impressive and i'm like was that the one talk to me uh is that yeah that's what it's called talk to me yeah dang that's made by like old school youtube pranksters and you're just like wait are all these people who came to youtube just like incredibly creative and so tapped into these like the style i don't know just like the modern wave of filmmaking.

31:23And part of that modern wave was doing weird shit like filthy Frank did. Like, you know what I mean? Like, is that just what this is? It's like, we are artists that tap into this world and use this thing that has no gatekeepers. And we can just play and do insane things that then leads us to like actually making compelling art. I don't know. It's like so interesting. Cause it's like, I think the way a lot of people kind of envision, you know, digital first creators moving into like music or traditional media is like them doing it because like their audience like they're bringing their audience over yeah and that's like the draw for like a lot of like bigger companies and stuff but i think when it's done right like joji and like yeah the rocker rocker yeah i think that's because like yeah they're just creative like yeah whether it be on youtube in a movie in a song like yeah and they're just native to whatever thing they're doing.

32:15So outside of the edgy Filthy Frank era, what was another era you were tapped into? Definitely the Casey Neistat daily vlog in New York situation. Wanted to be him so bad. I was like, mom, please buy me a boosted board. It's crazy that he created so much aspiration. I know. It's crazy to think about how many people wanted that. Yeah. Anyone can vlog their day. And it was so funny seeing some people be kind of like Casey Neistat copycats but they would do nothing all day and I was one of them, I'd make videos I know you guys have mentioned that you copycats this is not a dig at you at all which is fun no you guys actually have stuff to do I would do vlogmas at my school and I would go to curling practice and then go home and be like well I played a few games of Call of Duty and then went to bed.

33:08For a kid who's really enamored by YouTube and by like social media and creators who were building audiences. When the audience did start to build, what was the emotion of that? It was like very overwhelming because it was something that I was like trying to achieve for so long or at least just like get more than like 50 views on YouTube. So like when it started like even getting in like the thousands, I was like didn't even know how to process it. And I still don't. Like sometimes I really have to just sit myself down and like look at Google image pictures of like what a stadium looks like. And I'm like, this is 50 ,000 people.

33:45Yeah. And like that is so many. And like times that for like however many views a video got, like it's like incomprehensible. Did you have like commercial intent ever with in the beginning of uploading? Were you ever like this also can unlock money for me? Or was it really like I want to be a part of this world? you know like where did fame and money lie on the interest level of creating i mean i was like working at bubba gump shrimp co when i started so i just kind of wanted to get out of that they had to go in and like the the giant shrimp mascot it's like anything above that is like a good step yeah but i've just never been like you know wanting to be like the biggest creator ever like i don't really have like a maximalist kind of extreme capitalist bone in my body like i just i just like enjoy having like the content be the business like I think like AdSense is like 90 % of like my revenue so I just I don't know I've never I think maybe the day will come where I like become an amazing inventor and like come up with a product that I think could be cool but like until then I don't really feel like an urge to you know push it or force it or and I've seen like a lot of YouTubers that really get their heads like into the whole money thing and kind of like lose their original drive for like creativity yeah and that's always been like something i'm scared of so that's why i almost have this like adversion is that a word adversion no that's good aversion aversion to getting like to business scene stuff like i really just enjoy being able to make videos and have that be like or like maybe not just videos but like creating yeah like the entire thing that i do when when was the moment you were able to go full-time it happened like a while after i started like gaining followers on tiktok because back then like in 2019 back in the days on tiktok in 2019 um which is early relatively early tiktok yeah like pre-pandemic tiktok brand deals were like so far and few like they would almost all come like from tiktok themselves like they had like kind of like a short list almost that they would just like divvy out um like brand partnerships to and those were like so much like smaller in terms of how much you got paid so like a lot of um like my revenue was literally just like from live streaming like donation gifts on tiktok and stuff and it was like that for like probably a year like i think like my bank account was like in the negatives for like a good chunk of 2019 um and why was that because you were spending on the videos spending on the videos and also just like travel and like you know like being going to LA is not the cheapest thing ever yeah um meanwhile you're working at Bubba Gump Shrimp Co I had quit by then okay so uh so you're living at home during this time yeah I was living at home and then like I go to LA quite a bit to be with like some of my creator friends that I met back then um so at that point you're full-time creator you're just not making a lot of money pretty much yeah it was like what do they call it like running dry dry you were running breaking even breaking even running dry was just so far from that no i like that yeah the river was dry yeah that makes sense you're running on it no crabs you can purchase any crabs no time yeah yeah got it yeah it was pretty much only until 2020 when like adsense kind of started up because my youtube was gaining some traction that i was actually able to think about it being a career because like throughout like most I spit so much when I said that you literally didn't notice it we're gonna zoom into the spit as it travels across how much visibility did that spit have um yeah like throughout 2019 I would constantly think to myself like is this even something I could do as a career like I really would feel the the fragility of like TikTok as your only source of income um and thankfully YouTube is like not like that.

37:44I really like do feel like it's something that people can have a career on for a while. Yeah. And AdSense for you was that marker of, oh, okay, I'm making enough every month where I could do this full time and then eventually move to LA for a period of time. Yeah, definitely. What was that number marker for you of like, if I can make, you know, X thousand dollars a month on AdSense, then I feel like this is less fragile. I mean, like, even like, like I think my rent at the time was like 1500 so I was like that plus food let's call it 3000 like that was like enough and I think that's the beauty of YouTube like so many people can like make above what a nine-to-five job would make just like through AdSense you don't even have to have like that many subscribers to do that like if you have like a good like niche core audience like I really just find it so fascinating these people that have these like really tight small communities on YouTube which is like very different than how I am because I'm not really like niched down to anything yeah I just kind of like make all sorts of stuff did you have a backup plan back to Bubba Gump I dropped out of college before like my social media even like started up because I was taking journalism and I really just did not enjoy it like at all go to college in Canada?

39:00Yep. McEwen University. Shout out. Represent. Very Canadian. This happens every show. Yeah. Welcome. Thank you. That's a bit. He's about to walk in. He's about to walk in. Yeah. And it's going to be Ryan Trahan. And it's a 10 million subscriber play button. And you guys went to Google and rigged the numbers. So I hit it. Yeah. Was that during the pandemic that you were at college? No, it was before. It was before. Okay. So you were just like this isn't for me yeah i'm going all in on social because like i just like really just picked a random degree to like run with and one of the flyers for mcquen was like we have podcasting course course on podcast i was like well that's like the closest thing to youtube so let me do that and it was so bad it was i just was so not passionate about it they had me doing like grammar classes for like three out of six of my courses for each semester it was and you were really averse to those grammar classes yeah and i like really didn't even like make that many friends in college because it was like more so like a community college than a university so there was like my class was like half like 40 year olds i was like hey yeah got it hey deborah situation yeah okay classic hey deb situation got it um what was your first youtube video to like go go beyond the like thousands of people who are watching as you started growing it might have been the crab video crab video wow um i think i also made a video where i made like a fake tiktok house and like dm'd a bunch of celebrities it was all the kind of stuff i made like around early 2020 got it yeah and that stuff like started to get into the hundreds of thousands of views yeah but those were all like very much driven by like me promoting it on tiktok the first time i like found success like just from youtube was like these zoom hacking videos that i did where i would like join people's zoom classes from like the codes they gave me and i like cringe at those now because it was like the most obnoxious like content ever like i joined like a little goofy fart noise and when they're like trying to do like a yoga class so like i just like privated them all it's almost very uh nelk yeah i was doing that i know i like watched your guys's video on that and i was like damn we were really in the same vein yeah um and like one of those videos even has like i think 16 million views but of yours yeah and it was a short or a no no it was a like a full-length youtube video oh my god and i have it private because i'm just like yeah i like cringe i think that's it is something that's interesting because like i mean correct me if i'm wrong but when you're starting and you're like you you get a little taste of like viewership you're willing to do you're trying to optimize and figure out like how do i do that again or do that on a bigger scale yeah rather than optimizing for like who am i as a creator definitely and like i would have people that come up to me and be like when are you hacking another zoom class right i'm like never never again yeah um and that was a really interesting experience too because you know 60 million views on youtube is a lot but i was like getting like tiktok videos with like 20 million 30 million and like almost every time like someone recognized me they would talk about like my youtube there and my tiktok platform is so much bigger but like the audience that i had on youtube at the time, which I think was under a million was like so much stronger than what was on TikTok.

42:18So it was, it was a weird kind of, were you noticing that like a community felt like it was building on YouTube compared to TikTok? Yeah, definitely. Like I just kind of was like known on TikTok, but like I actually had a community on YouTube of people that would like know me beyond like my videos. How do you know a video is successful? Is it a metric for you or is it people reaching out to you, friends, other creators? When you look back at some of your videos, what does success look like? I think honestly having friends or even people that I look up to reach out is the craziest thing ever. When I released the vegan teacher video, there was so many people that I was such big fans of that were DMing me being like, Oh, I just watched this.

43:04This was so interesting. and I was like crapping my pants in the corner like how do you know I exist? I think for an honest fan of YouTube, that is the success metric because I've felt that in our career. Like there's been multiple rewards, right? Whether it's viewership metrics, subscriber metrics, revenue like dollar amounts and nothing compares to someone you respect reaching out and respecting your work. Exactly. And I think for people who became enamored with the platform and what it, like the creators on the platform, that's the, that's the reason to create is just to like join the crew.

43:46Right. Like to, like these people who live in your head as like these really cool and almost imaginary figures. Cause they're just on the screen and then you get to bring them to life through becoming contemporaries with them. That's like, that's a strange and exciting reality. reality and it's like evergreen like that kind of motivation because yeah like you know you can chase like subscribers till the day you die but having like people that you look up to reach out and be like i really love this video like i thought this was really cool is like insane it's insane not to name drop too much but is there a specific example that you'd feel comfortable sharing if someone who reached out like i'm such big fans of you guys every freaking video i wasn't fishing for that compliment.

44:26That was not a fish for a compliment at all. Yeah.

44:32Yeah. Like obviously you guys, but even like Ryan Trahan, like he's the reason why I like started TikTok. Really? Yeah. It was through like, cause he made a video where he, he was like becoming like TikTok famous in 24 hours. And this was like when TikTok was like a baby. I remember when he made that video. Yeah. And I was like, oh, let me try it. And I downloaded it. And like, I probably wouldn't have downloaded it back then if it wasn't for him. So, wow. Yeah, I think you can see a lot of the inspiration from Ryan in your videos. Like, there's so much of that element where Ryan has figured out, how do I take you through something and bring you, like, the most raw version of me in this process where some other creators would be like, too much of me and my personality gets in the way of the story.

45:18Ryan's like, at this point, I feel like sometimes the story is second to Ryan's personality. Yeah. And I think that's such a unique relationship. Do you do your own editing? Yup. Final Cut Pro till the day I die. Really? So you and Ryan both have this lo-fi style, but if you spend time really looking at it, it's pretty intricate. Yeah. With the sound effects, the music, the crash zooms, the text treatments, the effects that go on it. How difficult is it to be lo-fi? I mean, there is a lot more that goes into it than it probably appears. Like every kind of crash zoom, like your key framing, like where it's going to go, like key framing it one way, key framing it another way.

46:00Like sometimes we'll just spend like 10 minutes on like a three second clip of it, like zooming into my face for like no reason. But I don't know. That's why I kind of love Final Cut Pro because like this really sounds like an ad. But it's not non-sponsored. But it might be. But it could be. Yeah. Who knows? It could be. They could reach out. Tim Cook, like. but i think because it's not the most advanced editing software it's kind of like the elderly cousin of iMovie so a lot of the kind of lo-fi-ness is built into that and it just comes really naturally like the basic text title thing is literally just like what i use but i've noticed sometimes like you're out of focus right like and i wonder is this intentionally lo-fi does it add something to your story like to go to such lengths to be lo-fi i mean i film on my ipad like i just I set my iPad up on the stand.

46:54You film on your iPad? If I'm at home, I film on my iPad. That sounds absurd. Because the screen is big. On the iPhone, I can't see what's going on. Sure, of course. I've tried with cameras before. For me personally, I get so lost in the technical side of things. I just started using lavalier mics for a day and hated it. You're the only person who says the full name of those mics, too. Lavalier. Let's throw a lavalier. you know? That's great. Interesting. So it's like half intentional. It's like half stubbornness, but half like realizing that it works. So if it's like not broken, don't fix it kind of situation.

47:31Don't add friction to your process. There's moments where I just want to feel like it's actually the creator. Yeah, definitely. You know? And I think you can feel that with your stuff, that it's like actually you. It's your comedy is coming through the edits too, right? Through the text treatments, through that lo-fi stuff. Like that is part of the comedy and part of the commentary. So yeah, I can't believe you shoot with an iPad. That's like the craziest. That's the first time I've ever heard that. I think that's the craziest thing I've ever heard. Yeah. Do you see yourself adding team or changing the way that you make these?

48:02I don't. I really like sometimes want to, especially when like it's like midnight and I know I have like 10 hours left of editing and I want to get the video up by like 8 a.m. Times like that, I'm like, damn, I wish I had an editor. But I am just so, I would be so hard to work with, I think on one hand like if I had an editor they would be getting like files at like the butt crack of like midnight all this other stuff the worst time to get a new file not any other crack not an armpit crack just a butt crack and just like you know showing some of the ropes of like how I edit would be it'd be hard for me to like pass on the reins I guess and I'm like such a control freak when it comes to editing sometimes like I'll even argue with like how I edited it myself earlier like say I edit on a Monday and then like finish it up on Tuesday I'm like what was that guy thinking?

49:00What was Monday Ben thinking? Exactly. So there are like some kind of team aspects that I think I could like branch out to like maybe getting someone to help film like that's something that I very much like can't do myself sometimes Someone to hold the iPad Yeah exactly Making sure it's charged so I can play games on it after. There's also the argument though that by only going by yourself you're able to get more comfortable access yeah exactly you add someone else to the mix with a camera and that person is always aware of the fact this interaction is being filmed yeah but a lot of times like your phone is at your hip yeah you know like when it's just me i can be like oh i'm filming a show my mom but if i have like a camera crew or even just one person filming it's like kind of like a dead giveaway and like i don't think i'd be able to do like the vegan teacher video if i had like anyone but myself with me.

49:49So what's your appetite for taking risk? I watched the video where you go to the border of North Korea and you're in the demilitarized zone. Yeah. And it seems like you went by yourself, right? No one went with you, right? I got like a tour. I went on like Expedia and just found like a random tour. Okay. Where does that idea come from? And what is your appetite for risk when it comes to making these videos? I mean, I think I always, whenever I make a video, it comes from like a genuine want to just like explore something like the north korea thing i'd be like 12 years old like googling like can i fly to north korea kind of situation so it's always something that i want to do um and a lot of them are like more kind of crazy things like the north korea example but i think my appetite for risk is like it's probably higher than most people's but it's like for certain things like i get so scared doing any sort of like social thing like even just like dming another creator and being like hey not that this is even how i do like hey want to collab the kind of situation like is the scariest thing for me i've like never done it so i get like scared in like different ways but north korea strangely is not one of the scary thing for you But your Omegle in real life video.

51:05That was... Was that scary because it's a social interaction? Yeah. Yeah. And we got a lot of interesting people there. Yeah, social interaction is something that... Definitely YouTube has helped me get over it. I just feel like the most introverted, most awkward person. But it's helped at least 10%. Do you feel more comfortable with the version... Do you feel more comfortable with Ben of the week than you do with Ben in real life? yes I think um I think like if I can you know if I'm making a YouTube video and I'm like filming something I can almost get in a mind state where I just remind myself frequently that like social interaction is not in fact scary and talking to people will not kill you but that kind of has also transferred into my like regular life and just like ordering at a restaurant isn't as bad.

52:03Interesting. The difference though is that, not to spin you more into being an introvert, but the difference is that with YouTube, you can edit yourself, which I think is a really interesting part of being an editor and being a creator is like you start to learn, especially if you are the editor, right? So you're filming yourself, then you're watching yourself back and then you're editing yourself. you get to create a version of yourself for everyone to see but in a real-time interaction you don't get to do that yeah it's like live streaming right yeah not to pull it back to the internet but it's like it's a real life thing that you can't be like okay actually that was weird i shouldn't have said that let me edit that out or okay that face i'm making is kind of weird let me zoom in over here instead right yeah so it's like i was editing this that little spit bomb i had earlier yeah would be deleted faster than you could say final cut pro right when you look at some of these other platforms, like what do you think you and your community and your audience are tapped into?

52:57Like, is Instagram still kind of a thing? Is Twitter relevant to you? Is Snap relevant to you? Like what are, how do these platforms rank in relevancy? I see Instagram is like still pretty relevant. Like it's fun to just like, like play around on stories. And I think that's where like a lot of people and like my friends specifically kind of have fun with Instagram but Snapchat like I feel like everyone who is watching content on Snapchat is like a hostage because we have it downloaded on our phones to like send each other Snapchats yeah and then we're like oh I accidentally clicked the stories button I'm watching David Dobre give like a freaking Tesla for like the 400th frame of his Snapchat story and I don't see Snapchat as a hostage is a crazy thing I don't see like it having any like cultural weight or anything and not saying that like every piece of content has to be like written down in the history books but it's like with snapchat it's just so fleeting um it reminds me of like the layers of ads on like the walls of like the subway tunnels that have just been like ripped off and like as you're getting onto the subway you're like oh there's a million things and then you're on you're like okay see you later exactly and it's like for snapchat specifically like i think people like creators are mostly drawn to it for the money like you know it's fun to post stuff on your snapchat story it's not fun to post like 400 frames of what you did throughout the day yeah so like i love having like these all these different social media platforms that are like kind of very different how i approach them like my tiktok is so different than my youtube which is so different than how my instagram is um but now like for instagram i just kind of use it like casually like i'll just post like a create mode or like a meme here and there yeah you post something this morning that just said wh what did that mean what did that mean i don't know i oh i I was trying to type something on create mode and then the text just finalized and I was trying to write what something and it was just WH and I'm like, let me just throw it up on there.

54:56See what happens. I know. Comedy basics. But I feel like in the world of today, Balenciaga sees that and is like, yes. That's what we need. Let us get this show right now. Just WH. Every single show has WH. Of fashion and Gen Z internet culture. It's like, I can't stop thinking about being chronically online. It's just like sometimes weird stuff happens where like someone makes a mistake and it's like, whatever, and puts it up. And then that feels like a part, like that becomes part of subculture where like all your fans maybe start saying WH randomly. Right. And then that becomes a thing. And then that like you make merch that says that it's like, there's these weird things that just accidentally happen online that you kind of have to be there for.

55:41It's a, it's a series of inside jokes. Right. And then that inside jokes create incredibly tight bonds in communities and cultures. And then that's what like fashion for some reason in this moment is like tapping onto. And like the world of luxury is also tapping into that of those like inside jokes. It's so interesting that these worlds are interconnected. Yeah. And like with Gen Z kind of humor, it is like kind of inside jokes. Yeah. but you know sometimes like it just has like an inherent funniness to it like some of the memes I see it'll just be like Peter Griffin like dead on the floor and I'm like that's funny I don't even need to like know like the context or anything I'm just like just that is funny alone like 144 like by 144 like low quality image of Peter Griffin just like like I think like to boil down like Gen Z humor it's just like anything can be funny and like everything is funny that's too big of a box for me anything can be funny anything is funny that's insane what's your experience like with youtube shorts youtube shorts like always just blows my mind like the discoverability is insane i got in like really early and was like posting shorts i don't know when i started like 20 21 i think and like some of the shorts i post on there like some of them are posted like also on tiktok and they have like two times of views on YouTube Shorts.

57:11I think it's like really interesting because that's like something YouTube needed was like a TikTok kind of feed. Why do you think that? I think, you know, sometimes you don't want to watch, like you don't want to have to do the work of like searching for a video. It's nice to have things like recommended for you. But I think YouTube Shorts right now is like still very much in its like infant phase. It doesn't really have as much of a culture as I think it could. Like TikTok when it first started off was like barely had any culture. It was like furry wars and like everyone referencing like the hit or miss.

57:46Like these are all like very dead memes. No, no, but I like hearing them because I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about. I'm going to go look them up because yeah, I don't know what the hell you're talking about. The hit or miss? It's like this like hit or, let's not get copyrighted here. No, let's do it. Let's do it. I'm willing to take a copyright. Hit or miss. I guess I never miss, huh? It was like the Mia Khalifa diss, but then people were doing dances to it. To wrap that whole thought up. Yeah, sure. It was like very just like there was no culture there. But, you know, with YouTube Shorts, like I see it like slowly getting to culture.

58:19Like there's things that are like content styles that are growing on YouTube Shorts that you don't see on TikTok. Yeah. What is it called? Like double it and would you rather? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Double it and give it to the next guy. Yeah, stuff like that. That originated on YouTube Shorts? I feel like it did. maybe it didn't yeah all i get is lakes and i don't know what's going on over there like i feel like it's obvious that youtube wants to try and be a culture driver like tiktok was through youtube shorts yeah or like tiktok still is what advice would you give to youtube on how they can foster like culture like that or become a culture driver with youtube shorts i mean like i think where youtube has tiktok beat is like definitely with community yeah um and with tiktok like you can follow someone like never see them again but with youtube shorts like you can discover someone's content on shorts and then like go to their channel and see like like longer videos long form videos get to know them more personally rather than just like seeing a fleeting short so i think like that is a very good benefit to posting on shorts because it can be a lot stickier yeah whereas TikTok where you can literally follow someone and never see them again.

59:36You've grown to a little over 6 million subscribers on YouTube. Has that largely been from shorts or has a lot of that growth come from long-form content? A lot of it was from shorts. I want to say at least probably 2 million of my subscribers are from shorts, probably more. I haven't even really posted. I was posting like a couple a week when I first saw that they were really taking off. But it's slowed down a little bit more. And I think a lot of the subscribers come from long form too now. What's your most viewed short? How many views is that? It's the dry ice one, I think. It's also your most viewed TikTok, I think.

1:00:18Yeah, that one did numbers for some reason. People really liked the buying human organs bit, I guess. That was chaotic. I don't know. I think they got like maybe 60 million on shorts. Wow. maybe 50 million on tiktok do you still see tiktok as like a culture driver like is it still driving internet culture yeah yeah definitely i think that's like probably one of its biggest strong suits is so many things start on tiktok memes yeah culture moments in general and like so many people are on tiktok it blows my mind every day like to me it's like still this app from 2019 that like yeah maybe a million people are on but like it's like my mom is on tiktok and that's like so scary like knowing my parents are like scrolling through TikTok aimlessly I think there's more creativity on TikTok than shorts and reels because the incentive is higher on TikTok not financially but like culturally do you want to be actually on the main stage of like American culture post to TikTok try and succeed on TikTok if that were to shift then I think people would start creating elsewhere but in the current moment it's like America's got talent every day right It's like a talent show.

1:01:31And the other platforms are like a side room. I feel like every five years we kind of get a new social media platform. And I think TikTok is still riding off. It's like five years. So I don't think there'll be anything that everyone needs to hop on for a little while. Be real still hot? It's lukewarm. It's like my tea right now. Yeah, lukewarm. But it's fun. It's not like a content creation. There's no pressure. I know you collaborated with Mr. Beast. What's your relationship with him or what was that like to collaborate? Because you've done it a few times, right? Collaborating with Jimmy? The first time was for, it was in like the heat of the Minion meme when the Minion movie came out and it was just Minion frenzy, like Minion bonanza.

1:02:16And his like short form team reached out to me and was like, would you be willing to like drive a giant inflatable minion from LA to North Carolina. I was like, sure. All right. And then that ended up not being the case. Like they just shipped it over to North Carolina and didn't rely on me to drive a U-Haul, which would have ended disastrously. But I was still in the video. It was like super fun. We were just like killing a giant minion. We had like spears and stuff. Unliving, yeah. It was so crazy. Like I think back on it. like I really have to like look at videos and pictures like remember that it was real because um I was with like two other creators too and they were just so chill and so fun and we were all just kind of in like a collective shock we're like we're like gonna be in a Mr.

1:03:05Beast TikTok yeah and that ended up being like three yeah um and we also like like got to spend some time with Jimmy and he's just so chill and like so down to earth it was really crazy I like that even the YouTube video was in a way satire about people building large things and delivering them to Mr. Beast. You know, like that even in itself was kind of commentary on like on actually like a subculture that is pretty prevalent. Like let me make something oversized and give it to someone. I didn't even realize that was like a whole kind of thing. I kind of feel like that feeling of like maximalism on YouTube is kind of peaking now.

1:03:41And kind of giving wave to like the new wave YouTubers and you know your moist criticals, your Marcus Bramley's just like talking into the camera. It's funny that Marquez is considered like part of the next chapter when he's just kind of been here the whole time, like doing kind of pretty similar, you know, like he's got to like stood his ground and just been like, I'm this dude, you know, for a really long time. New bio, I'm this dude, I'm this dude. Yeah. But like he, he plays in and like does like, I feel like he's, he's innovating, but he innovates within his own, like he's very stable in his innovation, which I really appreciate.

1:04:14He doesn't really get swept away with like other things. and I think those are the creators that will probably last you know for a very long time who are just so unapologetically themselves and just like this is who I am this is what I do I'm just gonna stay steady and keep doing it you know I like on on tiktok in 2019 I got like really exhausted because I hadn't like found like a footing on there I was just like making videos based off like any trend or any dance um there's like it was like so soulless for the most part and then in 2020 like I developed this, developed, I like started doing this, um, kind of format where it's like skits, like a minute long, um, sat satirical skits, let's call it that.

1:04:58And that was something that I really liked doing and could like reproduce. And it wasn't reliant on like whatever state TikTok was in. I could like bridge off of it. Like there could be like a funny moment in culture that I could like make a video out of, but it wasn't like fully reliant on like a TikTok audio. Yeah. And that like brought me like a lot of comfort knowing that I could like do that. Are you comfortable if TikTok gets banned? Yeah, I'm chilling. You're chilling. I'm going to miss my little subway planning videos and my legs. Yeah, sure. I'll have to find a YouTube creator. Yeah, but YouTube doesn't give you that stuff.

1:05:35You know, like I feel like YouTube Shorts doesn't send you that. Neither does Reels. Yeah, neither does Reels. They don't have the breadth of content yet and like the way to serve it to you. And, you know, where you're just like, oh, I guess I'm a late guy. Yeah. You know? But, you know, like if TikTok gets banned, like I think it's called like the restrict act. They have all this other like stuff in it being like, like it would, it wouldn't just like hurt TikTok. It would like hurt pretty much every platform. So like that worries me. But if say like TikTok just disappeared itself tomorrow, like I'd be a little sad, but I wouldn't be the saddest person.

1:06:08It wouldn't impact your earning potential. No, I don't think I really, because like accounts made on TikTok that were made in Canada, you can't get the creator funds. Like I've never gotten like a dime from it. Wow. Yeah. But brand deals on TikTok are those? I think the last time I did that was like last year. Brand deals in general, I just don't do that often. Why is that? I mean, mostly just because like AdSense is like enough, like making my content. on YouTube and that just being like the main source of income has been like more than enough sometimes like it makes sense like a brand partnership and I like think about it but for the most part I just kind of pass them on by yeah there's something to be said for also making it the way you want to make it on your own time without any reviews yeah because the second you add like a brand partnership there's suddenly like a timeline there's like creative control and those are two things I like hate to give up.

1:07:08And perhaps one to two minutes that is not actually part of the story you intended to tell. And we've got to optimize for, what do they call it, retention. Yeah, it's amazing. The AdSense is like the cleanest form of monetization on social because it's like you're not, whoever is running on your channel, you're not talking to them. It's not like you're going through revisions with them. It's just like the ad plays. And then you get a check. You know, it's like such a clean cut. but you need to in order to do that do like millions of views a month in my opinion I mean you can do hundreds of thousands and make a living but yeah for it to be substantial you have to be doing significant amount of views because I see creators that are starting now and their AdSense checks are like $200 maybe and they're getting a good chunk of views it's like 200 ,000 viewers per video but it's still pretty low so I'm lucky to be able to have that as my main source of income I want to ask now that you've sort of like arrived and even the fact that you can kind of like make a decision of like do I want to go down the fashion route?

1:08:10Do I want to go down this route? How much do you think about the next five years and how in control of your career you either want to be or not be? I think about it a lot. Like it kind of like haunts me sometimes. I'm like, what's next? What are we going to do? But I think it freaks me out a little bit less now because I just know like as long as I have like a space to be creative like I will hopefully be okay whether it's you know like making a documentary that like might even be like off YouTube or something um and just like kind of building like connections with people who are also creative uh has been like really cool for me because that can lead into maybe producing things that aren't just like YouTube videos what do you mean by be okay like when you say like I'm going to be okay is it like you're going to be able to express yourself you're going to be able to take care of yourself like like just not have to go back to Bubba Gump I guess um but you know just making like a living like being creative I think is like a really insane gift that I get to have that I want to hold on to yeah do you think your videos on YouTube like your library is substantial enough now that you could take a long extended period to work on a project and still make a living?

1:09:27Yeah, probably to make a living. I think I'd take a month off max. I get antsy if I'm not making videos because I've been pretty much making weekly videos since I started the channel. In 2013? Yeah. You feel like you've disappeared? I feel like I just have nothing to do. It takes up so much what I do each day. If I just stop making videos, I think I'd just play Fortnite for literally 28 days straight. That's so interesting. I've been thinking about this because we started making videos in 2011. That's when I uploaded my first YouTube video. And I'm not positive that there has been a week of my life that I haven't thought about making a YouTube video.

1:10:13Whether it's actively working on one, planning one, ideating, watching another YouTube video to get inspiration. I'm not positive. I don't think there's been a week. And I've been trying to think about what those, you know, 11, 12 years of my life, like, what has that done to my head? Like my creativity, my brain, my personality. Have you ever thought about that? Like making a video every week for 10 years, what has, how has that shaped you? yeah that was like a fear I had like last year I was like do I do I have an identity do I have like an actual personality outside of like making videos online and then like because like YouTube was like my hobby for the longest time and then suddenly boom it's a job yeah and it like doesn't have the carefreeness that it once had um so I like found new hobbies and now I like lakes I like just playing city my hobbies are city planning and so like I think that was like really helpful just like finding new new things to be interested in and one thing that I used to like always kick myself on was like not making like a gaming channel or like gaming content because like I'm the biggest minecrafter like I love minecraft and I see like some of the minecraft creators like who are just flourishing because I had such a moment in the past few years but I'm like if I like started making content on that then it like wouldn't be my hobby anymore and i don't know if it would be as fun so i'm like kind of glad that i kept it as like my little baby and yeah no one can watch me play minecraft can you talk a bit about like the the youtube being a job or like content creation being a job and how that has how has that changed over the years your relationship with making video um it like sometimes feels very present that like this video i'm that that I'm making is the thing that's keeping me eating and a roof over my head.

1:12:05And that can be a scary thought. So I try to compartmentalize all the business thoughts for small periods of the day. I'll have my email answering hour.

1:12:20Just removing as much business from it that I can so that when I'm actually making the videos, it just feels like I'm making videos the same way I would in 2013. What does your team look like on the business side? I have a management team and then I have an attorney to do all the contract reading and all of that. Did you make the decision to bring on the attorney or was it like you brought on the management team and they were like, you should probably have a lawyer? You should probably get one of these guys. I was like, okay. And then I also have a publicist team. And what type of opportunities does the publicist team bring you?

1:12:56I got a Newsweek article which was crazy. We got a clip out of you upstairs from like 17 Magazine something like that. Of like five ways to get into Ben of the Week's heart. Do you have any advice for creators who are watching this show? Because as someone who watches this show, watches our channel, being a creator yourself, is there anything that you think like I'd love to share that? You want me to give some creator support the short podcast by Colin Samir thank you you don't need anything to like start a YouTube channel like I still film with my iPad you know like equipment is not something that you need to worry about right off the bat and also like don't compare yourself to others cause like sometimes I'll like really just be like comparing myself to the trajectories of other YouTubers especially when I was like starting off and thinking like oh why is my channel not acting like this i've been doing youtube for a year and they've been doing youtube for a year but they have so much more and like that was kind of a rut i got myself into like when i was just starting off and it's like very unproductive like it doesn't get you anywhere and like what you can do best is just like find your strength and whatever thing you do like even if you like don't have a niche like so you really like like hot wheels cars like okay like you can branch out into that niche become the best hot wheels creator but like even if you don't have anything like i'm sure there's something within your personality that you'd apply to a certain niche or a certain interest of yours like you have to be interested in something out there sometimes we you know use some time at the end of the pods to like if you have any questions for us and like not to be like the elder statesman but like you know we have 10 years on you like if there's any things that you're facing right now that you're like damn i want to workshop that yeah doors open for that I was wondering, like, I know, like, a lot of creators talk about, like, building, like, relationships with brands.

1:15:03Yeah. And I know you guys are, like, really good at that. Like, some of, like, your brand partners, like, you guys, like, really stick with versus, like, a lot of people where it's kind of just, like, a one-off thing. I'm wondering, like, how you go about that. Like, how do you kind of, like, build a relationship with a brand? I've learned in my career of like building brand relationships that like if you enjoy having dinner with the people, it probably will result in a long-term relationship. Because so much of that experience is like, do you want to spend more time with these people solving problems together?

1:15:41Do you want to pick up the phone and call them when certain things are, you know, maybe not going well? Are they going to be receptive to that? Do you want them to call you when they need to solve something? Like if that feels like a relationship you want to have, then it'll probably grow. But you have to invest the time. I think that's one of the challenges of like as you grow and you get a manager or an agent is oftentimes they're the ones managing that relationship. And there's a step removed with you as the creator. But the way I see it is like these, you know, we went from probably having 10 to 15 sponsors down to three or four.

1:16:14Oh, wow. Because, and that's what we wanted. because it was like, I want to work with a small, intimate group of people who are on the same page as us and have the same mission as us. I also think it gets a lot easier when you understand kind of your mission statement. Like, why do you exist in the world? Right. And so for us, as we kind of started to understand ourselves as, okay, we're a, we're a space that, you know, opens the doors with content creators and like is, is set to educate other content creators to tell stories about that, that then allows brands to come in who have the same mission.

1:16:49So who else has that mission? They can kind of come join us and be a part of our world. Gotcha. I think it's important to acknowledge that there are two of us, though. And so, of course, we have team around us and edit support and everything. But there are a lot of days where Samir is in the office right over there on the phone with different brand partners. Because it just takes time. That relationship building takes time, and I'm upstairs in the office at a computer editing. right so like we have a little bit of that luxury with the two of us so I think for you like the relationship that the brand wants if it's going to be long term is with you as an individual so you have to think about how much time can I actually allot and can I communicate with the brand through the time that I do have available gotcha yeah you guys get to be double trouble new name of the channel double trouble yeah but I could see you like going along with one brand you know like one brand who really understands you and just like, you know, you have a good relationship with them and that's like, that's the one brand.

1:17:45Gotcha. You don't really have like a formula, right? That you're like copying and pasting to the next video. Yeah, not really. Not really. So you're kind of like starting anew every single time. You're like, ooh, this Amish thing's interesting. I'm going to go explore it. Oh, what's that like? Oh, okay. That was totally different. No humor in that one. How are we going to do that? You know, like you're sitting at a computer and kind of discovering it for the first time. So that's very different. That requires a different type of mental space than, And, you know, I have a format that I'm just like, I'm doing.

1:18:10Yeah. I mean, like, I've just never like really felt the drive to like really pursue that because like I've just been lucky enough with AdSense to like be my whole business. And also like, I don't have like a team that like I really need to like, like financially support and stuff. But, um. Yeah. I was going to say, I don't think you need to be that person. Right. Like I think if right now AdSense is paying the bills and keeping you going and allowing you to be this creative person, like you're 23 years old, you have time. Like you can explore where this takes you and maybe you end up becoming like a director or like a creative that's, you know, making movies or doing something totally different.

1:18:51Like plugging into a whole different industry. Yeah. You know, like being a creative person, how that works is like you have an agent and they book you on different projects where you're a creative person. you know no brand partners at all brand partners at all it's just like hey can you help us make this movie you know or hey you have an idea for a movie we're gonna get some funding and go make that movie or make a tv show or make something for a platform make something for netflix like yeah that world also exists and i think sometimes we forget about that world we think so heavily in the world of advertising and like we're building media surfaces that advertisers are a part of definitely but that's just because that's how youtube works like there's you're using it as a tool to express your creativity it can go a whole different direction and that's why like uh i always find it so amazing when people do like like creator companies like feastables chamberlain coffee stuff like that because you know it usually stems from like a genuine love for like whatever product they're creating like emma chamberlain coffee yeah match made in heaven um oh i was gonna ask you guys like you don't have to name drop but how often do you see like creators make um like a creator driven brand or product and it just really feels like a money grab and like they're not behind it because i feel like i see it quite a bit i think yeah i think you can tell right when that happens um and i think one of the biggest challenges is that the amount of people that emerge when you are a creative person that's creative work gets, builds an audience.

1:20:23The amount of people who emerge who all of a sudden are connected to your revenue is a very odd thing that happens. Like the people who can kind of come and be like, I can make money off of you being creative. It's an odd thing that happens. Very strange. It's very strange. And it's accepted. And it's, you know, there's good people who do that. there's a lot of people who are very opportunistic when it comes to that and i think a lot of creators who are a little bit afraid of the cycle who are like i need something else beyond the cycle i'm gonna need something right because maybe one day the cycle stops i can't i don't come up with ideas maybe the algorithm doesn't like me anymore maybe i just don't want to make videos so like the natural model is i need to build something else yeah and then there's a lot of people who are surrounding our industry who are like ben of the week you got six million you know let's make something together and i say stick it buster i don't know why i did like a 1950s kind of new york guy like ben of the week what are you doing are we doing it me i'm just making a youtube video but yeah i mean i'm sure you've been approached right yeah yeah there's been like some good offers some bad offers yeah but the thing is it's unlikely that there will be a moment in your life where you're like i'm gonna retire from being creative yeah you're just creative you know and you're expressing yourself so i think that's the thing is that you have to look at everything on very long windows.

1:21:48I used to look at things on very short windows and be like, if we don't do this right now, we're screwed. But when you extend that window to being like, I'm going to live the remainder of my life as a creative person, everything gets way more chill. Because you're like, this concept doesn't have so much weight on it. I'm still going to be creative in 10 years, even if it's not this. It's going to be something different. That's very true. That's very comforting. Yeah, if this goes away, I'm still that dude, as Marquez as Browner says. No, but you are. You are that creative person. You came up with this stuff.

1:22:23It doesn't mean that you shouldn't take advantage of momentum when you have it, because momentum's hard to create. But you shouldn't fear certain, like fear the lack of decisions that you make. I do think what's important, though, as you do bring on partners and you start to trust people, whether it's for a new endeavor or just to help you on your channel, you want people who want you to succeed, but can afford failure. You never want to bring someone on for a new endeavor who needs that new endeavor to pay rent. Because it's a new endeavor. And again, like you said, it's number two to your YouTube channel.

1:23:00And so people need to know that. And you don't want that pressure of someone who's like, Ben, I need you to do this for this company. But you're like, that's my number two. I can't. That's my number two. Yeah, that's my number two. Exactly. I really did not need to insert a fart. No, I think you did. Toilet joke. It's like the fifth one of this podcast. I think you had to. You couldn't not. You had no other choice, yeah. Do you hang out on Reddit at all? Here and there. If I'm trying to pirate a movie, I'll be like, where can I watch this movie? Reddit. Reddit has got the goods. They got the goods.

1:23:35By pirate, I mean watch on a pirate ship. Of course. Just so everyone knows. That's what pirating means. That's good, man. I'm gonna call you for all my like internet subculture needs now I'm just gonna know I just literally made that up that's not a thing everything you say I think is a thing I'm like shit I should know about this part I'm so out on that I'll just be texting you weird stuff like what's WH? is that a thing? what was it again? cool man well thanks so much for coming on the show thank you so much for having me this has been such a dream appreciate it man this was awesome

1:24:14you