An Unfiltered Conversation with Dream

22:49I was like, for my parents, I was the worst kid ever to other people. I was very nice. I was respectful, you know, whatever. But like, I had a wire from my, my neighbor's plug run to my window down under and like around in my closet. So my parents like wouldn't see it to be able to charge my laptop that I slept under my pillow. That way they could not take it away from me. If that helps in tell you what type of kid I was. I was like a kind of like a little devious, like kid who was, I was so strong on like in confident in what I wanted to do and what I wanted to be. And I would never take, you know, I would never take like, no, you can't do what you want.

23:24And you got creative to make that stuff happen. Were you the younger sibling or? I have three siblings. I have an older sister, a younger brother and a younger sister. And so I'm a middle, middle child. You're right in the middle. Okay. I'm curious where friends come into the picture here. Cause when I think about reading a hundred books a year or fighting for access to the internet like that to be on it. All of those, to me, seem like solitary pursuits. I didn't have many friends. I didn't have many friends. And I think that's one of the reasons as well. I was able to keep my face reveal, like private for so long is because I had like, I had two really close friends when I was growing up.

23:56They were my two next door neighbors. And then we moved and I hardly saw them ever again, even though I, you know, I, I, I'm still friends with them to this day, but I, yeah, I'd like those two guys. And then I had, when we moved, we moved to another neighborhood. I had one guy there that he ended up moving away at some point. But almost all my friends that I've had that I have now in my life are online friends and people that I met that I met online. But in terms of real life, I had I had my next door neighbors when I was like in middle school and then in high school, I really isolated myself.

24:21I went through like a massive depression when I was like 15 and it was very much self-caused by me isolating myself and not, you know, feeling like I just felt like I couldn't. I really wanted to be an author. I really wanted to go into tech and I felt like neither of those were going to happen. And so it made me really, really upset. And so I was in this battle where I was like suicidal. And I was like telling my parents, like, if I can't do this, like, you know, I want to die. I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to work a normal job, you know, whatever. I want to, I want to do what I want to do.

24:50And so eventually, luckily I kind of grew up a little bit and realized like, well, you have to make it happen. And it's not, you know, these are the confines. These are what, this is what you're working with. You have to go to school. You have to, you have to get a job. You have to do these things. And eventually once I came to terms with that, I was able to be like, Hey, yeah, I kind of have to be an adult and be reasonable and realize that everyone else has the same rules. You know, you, you work within the rules of the world and then you, you do what you can. And so, uh, yeah, I, I, I worked my ass off.

25:16I did online schooling. I actually ended up graduating early and I did, I had a bunch of, um, tech certifications because on, I abused the heck out of a program, uh, in Florida that they, it's, it's called, uh, FLVS, it's like a Florida virtual school, where they allow you to get like free tech certifications. And I did all of that and got like certified in a crap ton of different stuff when I was like 17. What skills were you learning when you're taking these tech certifications? Like I did a lot of like networking. There were some of them were based on like Windows and then hardware and software certifications.

25:49There was I know I know a couple I know I got like networking plus certification. At the same time, I was teaching myself Java, which is a programming language, which I actually, that's the only thing I don't have a certification in. And that's the one thing I actually know how to do it still and can code, you know, code cool stuff. But that one was that, I guess the reason I know that one is because I actually was passionate about that. And I only learned because I had the idea for a Minecraft server. I went to my friend who ran one and it was a business and he's like, this is the amount, this is how much it would cost.

26:14And I was like, well, I don't have that much money. And I was like, you know what? I can, I'm going to do it myself. My dad's a developer. If he can do it, it's probably in my genes. I can do it too. And so I went and watched YouTube tutorials and stuff and then started coding stuff myself. And that was, that became my thing, which actually got one of my YouTube videos. I use that a lot. So that's interesting that your dad's a developer. So that was around you when you were growing up. Yeah, no, he, my dad's was a massive tech guy. Even my grandpa, my grandpa was like, uh, I don't want to say friends, but he like, he worked with like Steve jobs and stuff.

26:42And he worked on like one of the first computers ever made. And, um, so I had a big, my, the men in my family had a big tech background. And so I always really did look up to, like technology. I've always been really into technology, but it's interesting enough, even though everyone would, when I got asked as a kid, like, oh, at least not as a kid. When I was 17, 18, oh, what are you going to do as your job? It was always something tech related. But in the back of my mind, it's like, that's not what I want to do. But I never say that. I just be like, yeah, I'm going to be a developer. I'm going to be this or that.

27:10Super interesting. That was like an answer that everyone would accept. It's like part of your family. But I would tell my family, I'd be like, no, I'm doing this. I'm going to end up making this work or whatever. And then, I mean, the story, I don't know if we want to get into right now, but the story of how I started my YouTube channel is actually very interesting, I guess. And I think it's very showing up the same thing with like the dedication behind the face reveal and stuff. Like I got a job working at Apple. And that was, again, I used a lot of my certifications and stuff when I was 18. You worked at Apple?

27:40I worked at Apple. So, okay. Apple care. So it was. But it was at Apple. That's still Apple. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, I actually was the highest level of support at AppleCare. So essentially I had like a phone number that people you could call like important clients and stuff could call to get the problems that like if you went through 10 people and they couldn't solve it, then it would get to me. Oh, again, I actually learned a lot of stuff there that played into YouTube. Like I learned how people think like because one thing they taught at Apple was and I went through like it was like a three month training before I even got the job.

28:12And it was like one thing that they taught strongly was like, you're not just fixing a problem. you're fixing a person like the person they might their problem might not just be the problem they might have a problem with the last 10 people they talk to they might have a problem with you know they might have a they might have a problem with just the day they're having they might have a problem that they don't even realize they have that you can help them fix while you're on the phone with them there that's so apple it is so it is so apple and i will still say i think apple support is one of the best support systems i've ever seen and working on the inside even so i'd be like yeah it was amazing and and great um and so i i got better and better at it over time and in learning what people, how people think.

28:44And I definitely use that when I started YouTube, but, but I, I, so that was when I was 18, I was working at Apple. I saved up about$20 ,000 from working there for, you know, almost a year. And, and then I was like, I went to my parents and I was like, I'm going to do YouTube. So I'm going to quit my job. And I had not posted a single YouTube video. I was like, I'm going to quit my job and I'm going to do YouTube. My parents were like, no, you don't do that. Call the cops. Get the cops back here. Yeah. Exactly. And they're like, they're like, eventually they're like, okay, but if you do, you run out of money, you're not coming back with us.

29:18Just so you know, you're not going to, now realistically, they want to take me back. I mean, they would have, but, but I didn't think that at the time of course. And I was like, Oh God, this is, this is all or nothing. And so I came up with like, I was like, I need a plan. If I'm, if this is going to be my job, I need to treat it like a job. I need to actually have a strategy. I need to have a plan. I need to know what I'm doing. And so I quit my job and then I was doing, you know, for like three, six months. Cause I quit in January. And then I had, there was six months until I put my first video, which was in June or July of 2019.

29:47And so I quit my job in January and I was like, okay, I'm coming with a plan. And while I was doing that, I was doing like little side Minecraft projects for coding. I've actually worked for some other like YouTubers that were, I did videos for their, on their channel where I coded stuff for them, which ended up playing a big part into, I learned some stuff during that period while also just literally studying. I looked, I used to say, I've read tons of information about it, like hundreds of books worth everyone's like what books like not actually books i read like i would watch youtube videos i would look at what's working from people and i would just really just overanalyze everything like i would i would listen to the intro a hundred times like what makes this intro better than something what makes mr beast intro better than everyone else i'm going to go through it you know what there's i'll notice things in descriptions and be like that once he's doing something interesting he doesn't like as an example this is an example for you to give out i was like oh like mr beast like he i don't know if he does it now but at the time he didn't link anything description when he's putting social media he'd put like social media and then at whatever and didn't have a link.

30:37And I was like, that's interesting. Why does he do that? Is there a reason why it'd be good? And so I was like analyzing and I was like, oh, well maybe, you know, I don't even know if this is true, but I was like, maybe if you don't, if you make it not a link, then people are less likely to like during the video, click off and like mess with the retention. Cause like they click the link and then they leave the video and they come back and you just have two views that for like the less retention. And so I just, there was probably a thousand different things like that, that I found like little tiny, small things that really add up, I guess, in the grand scheme of things, some of them are probably a little superstitious and then it's like, oh, you know, like, is it, does it really make that big of a difference?

31:05Like at the end of the day, you have to make good content. Um, and that, that's something I learned as well. I was like, well, at the end of the day, I have to actually make high quality, good content. But if I follow all these tricks and tips, then, then I can. Um, and I eventually got to the point where I was confident enough to, um, go into it. I remember I was in a CC's pizza parking lot with my sister. Um, and she's like, she's like, so what are you doing now? You're not Apple. I'm like, well, starting soon, I'm uploading a video. I'm going to be a massive YouTuber. And she's like, no, you're not.

31:31And I was like, no, I am. She's like, you've told me this before. And I was like, yeah, but I didn't actually mean it before. I mean it now. I'm going to, I promise you. And, and I actually was running out of money in my savings. I had, uh, I had no money left in my savings and my rent was due, um, in the next week and YouTube, they send you a little slip. They have to send your address to your first paycheck. Yeah. Yeah. The pin. And they said just the wrong address. And so, uh, I, I wasn't able to confirm to get my payment. And so I was like, I ended up calling my friend, Babo Halo, who's another YouTuber of mine.

31:57And I was like, Hey man, I'm too embarrassed to call my parents. I don't, I don't want to ask my parents for money. if I need money I don't know if I will because I could get the slip in time will you lend me money I promise you look I have this YouTube owes me you know yeah five thousand dollars or whatever it was um you know will you will you lend me money he was like yeah man and that made me feel a lot better and not like freak out about what I was gonna do um but then I I got the slip in time and I got my first paycheck literally that week and I always I think back with this crazy thing of like when you say is it planned like if I had that my first video had not blown up as much as it did and that was delayed by one month I probably would have just gone back to Apple and been like hey, I was an employee, take me back.

32:32And I would have started the cycle maybe of just saving up and then being like, I really want to do this thing, quitting. Interesting. Okay. So I want to go back a little bit in time to something you said. Yeah, it's all good. The pursuit of YouTube is always interesting to me because like, I was just having a conversation with my mom about it this morning. This kind of like, at least for me, this like desire for validation and for other people to like even quantifiable validation where there's like numbers next to it. Right. And I think back to what you were just mentioning of like, you shared with us, you were, you were, you went through a bout of depression and, um, there's a line in one of your songs, which is a song I really like mask, uh, that Colin and I wrote down, which thought it was really interesting.

33:14It says, the fact is I can never get off my mattress. All they ask is why are you so sad kid? That's what the mask is. that's the whole point. Oh, that's what the whole point of the mask is. Um, you talk about how the best lyricism in history, dude, it's pretty good. Honestly, I thought like we wrote that down cause you're like, that's pretty good lyrics. I think that a lot of people make fun of a lot of the lyrics from some of my old music. And I actually, I think, I think everyone that's an art looks back on their old stuff and cringes. So I look back at that and go, ah, cringy. I know what I was trying to say, but I know how, maybe I'd say it differently now, which is so funny.

33:52I think I do that with videos, with writing everything. You look back and go, oh, that old video, man, that's, I'm so, I was so bad. I'm just curious if like the desire to do YouTube to, um, you know, put yourself out there and have feedback and get some level of like, you know, notoriety or, or validation. Did that come as a response to your upbringing or like, you know, feeling sad or maybe not having as many friends? Like I definitely didn't, uh, go into YouTube for validation per se. Sure. Yeah. But I definitely, with writing, I relate a lot more with writing, but also with like YouTube and gaming in general.

34:28I feel like gaming and writing in the same way are an escape. Like, I feel like you're in a different, when you're writing, you're creating your own world. You're in your own world. It's different. It has different rules. It's whatever you want it to be. And in gaming, it's the same way. If you're playing Minecraft, you're playing whatever. It's your own thing. You can do whatever you want. Talk to whoever you want. You can choose the characters. You know, if I don't want to have the phone with my neighbor to be different and if I'm online, I have an online friend. Oh, I can not talk to that person and they're not my neighbor.

34:56I can change my neighbor and make it someone new. And so I feel like I really, I really, I looked at gaming and also writing in the same way as this escape from like sadness, I guess. And so when I was going through depression, definitely my biggest escape was writing and gaming. And during when I was like 16 and 17, there was my probably my two worst, most depressed years, I'd say. maybe 15 in there. I lose track of the timeline sometimes. And during those years, I was the most creative I'd ever been. Probably even since then. Like I literally, during those two years, I wrote 275 ,000 word novels.

35:30I coded like two massive Minecraft networks. One of them is still up to this day and has players on it. I don't even know anything to do with it anymore. I don't do anything on it. And I literally was every day just putting creativity out into the world because that was what made me feel validated. like and in control probably and in control of my own stuff like you know i coded something oh i want to i want to have this i want to do this play this game today i'm going to code this game and i'm going to have fun with that and i'm going to be happy about that because that's what it was and so that's why whenever i i say oh i was this bratty i was such a bad kid and i did all these stupid things to try and get the internet but it's to me it was like it was the end of the world you took you took away the internet from me this was like my this was my life i had this was this was my escape from my sadness you're just plunging me into the set and i was hating my parents and i had such a bad relationship with my my mom and my dad and uh especially my dad back then we we were we were into it and and uh we were at each other's throats all the time he was you were looking back on it it was mostly me at his throat and him just being like yeah stop being such an idiot like not that sure um and so uh yeah but i i feel like that's that's why it really was such a thing it was like you're ripping my like heart out you're ripping this thing and it is an addiction as well like just to go back and admit that like i was so addicted you can get addicted to, um, to almost anything, obviously not just drugs or whatever, but, um, I feel like with, uh, with, I was addicted, but, uh, it luckily it ended up the fact that I spent all that time doing all those things that improved my life massively.

36:54So I'm almost thankful for the experiences that I had. Um, and, uh, I was able to learn a lot from the things I did wrong and the things I did right. And then, uh, also just from, you know, being sad, I guess made me, made me happier now because I'm able to appreciate the fact that I wasn't always happy. And now I feel like I am almost always happy now. Um, and not even just because my circumstances, I was this way probably since I was 18 or since I was maybe 17 and a half after I kind of had, not everyone has this. And there's obviously a million different experiences with depression and with sadness.

37:25And, um, I had, I kind of had a realization at one point where I was like, I am in control of my life and I need to like, this is as much as writing is my own world and gaming is my own world. like my brain is my like my castle my brain is my own world like if i if i told myself it's like the placebo effect if i tell myself something enough it can be i can make it true i can make it true i am the i'm the best most awesome you know most handsome you know strongest whatever guy in the world i'm gonna i'm gonna kill it i'm gonna be i'm gonna be you know billionaire you know whatever and i think that that's something that i i said as a kid so much of just just these these these little statements of i'm gonna be successful i'm gonna be an author i'm gonna be a youtuber i'm gonna be this as these things even getting in fights like i had a fight with my older sister when it was over college and my parents, my parents were incredibly responsible parents and they had like a college packages that for like, for all of us, there's like a Florida, I think it's in Florida.

38:15You can do where you can like prepay over time for college. And then you get into whatever university you want or something like that. And so they had that for, you know, for, for me. And so it was a conversation when I was like 17, where they're like, Hey, we have this for you. And we, we, you know, we want you to college. And my sister was there and i was saying i'm not going to college so thank you but no thank you um and uh my sister was like you are such an idiot like you're going to be homeless in three years ago my parents were not saying that they were they were saying okay that's that's fine you know uh you know we respect whatever you want to do um because like i said at that time i was much more i was i was much more adult than than i was now but i still had a lot of childish tendencies um and i remember i remember like i remember saying it the one of the cockiest things probably i'd ever said when i was like larry no i'll be making more money than you in 10 years you know whatever and you'll be stuck in college debt.

39:00And I was like, I was like, all right, well, I don't know how nice or true that was, but it was that, that mindset of like confidence, not to the level of, of being outwardly talking to everybody, being like, no, I'm better than you or something, but being like with myself, like, no, don't tell me I have to go to college. Don't tell me I have to do this. I'm going to find my own way to do what I want to do. And I'm going to make it happen. Create my own reality. You have to believe it for yourself. No one else is going to believe it for you. You have to believe in yourself. I had, this is a very, very short thing, but I feel like it's an interesting life thing.

39:32I realized at some point I was like, I think I'm very creatively intelligent. I don't think I'm very like book smart. I'm not, I'm not, I'm terrible at math. I'm not, you know, I don't know my history that well. I'm not great at science, you know, all these subjects. But I'm great at talking to people and I'm great at understanding people. And I'm great at, you know, exuding like confidence and, and, and, uh, and energy and happiness. And I feel like I realized at some point at probably around when I was like 17, I was like, that's almost more important than anything else. Because if you can go into it, like as an example, if you can go into it, you can be the smartest person in the world and sit down and you're my interviewer and you ask me questions and I see, I'm unsure.

40:08I answer them poorly and whatever versus I could come into the room with the interview and I could convince, convince you of whatever I can get you. Yeah, no, I mean, whatever. I did. I actually did that when I interviewed for Apple and that like I was totally underqualified. I did not. When I went to the interview, I was totally underqualified, but I was able to walk my walk my way around the interview very well. And I'm sure they they weren't naive and, you know, they probably realized I was puffing myself up a little bit and whatever. But at the end of the day, I think that it was that I was also willing to admit when I didn't know something or just be like, oh, no.

40:35But you know what? I would say, what would you do in this situation? Instead of being like, oh, I would I tell them the problem like, oh, well, I don't know the answer to that. Therefore, I would Google it and I would try and figure out, you know, use Reddit or whatever. And I think it's just a weird answer to hear. And I answer that question a lot when they're like, how would you fix this problem? Like, well, I'd probably go on Reddit. And then they're sitting there like, this is an Apple interview. What do you mean you can go on Reddit? I'm like, well, that's what I would do. And guess what?

40:56I probably solve it faster than the average person because I can type fast. Whatever. Do you think that honesty and that confidence, that fake it till you make it, is a big part of why your first YouTube video took off? Because seldom does a first YouTube video take off. let alone someone like you under pressure. It was like, I'm going all in. Yeah. I will say, I think, I think it's, I always say, oh, my first video, but I, I slightly misleading. So just to like give context, I've been uploading YouTube videos since I was like a little kid. Like I did like, he's like kid versus wild videos where like I was in the forest with my friends when I was like 11, like you were vlogging.

41:30Yeah. Yeah. I did like, I had this, this vlog series where I like when I talked about like Yu-Gi-Oh cards and at some point I went through a phase where I, I like did, I did, I wanted to be an editor. So I started editing and I, I edited like montages of like football players. And then I went into like song parodies at some point. And I kind of went through all these different phases as YouTuber. And one of them was on, actually on my channel I use now, but it was branded as a different name. It was Dream Traps. And it was back in like 2013. And I did Minecraft like traps. Like I would trick other players into like falling into some crazy thing.

42:00And those are my videos. And yeah, actually that channel I ran with Sapnap. But he had a different name at the time. we ran this channel together. I mean, it was called Dream Traps. It was a group channel. And then at one point I was like, I, I, when I decided I was going to do YouTube, when I came back, I was like, I did everything wrong and I want to do things right. And so I was like, I want somebody to watch the videos on my channel now and be like, Oh, and not get recommended an old video and be like, Oh, this guy's, this guy's kind of trash. And so for the first, for the longest time I started uploading, I uploaded, I actually uploaded one video before my first video.

42:32I don't think I've ever said this. It was like six months or five months something before my first video I ever uploaded as dream. Um, or not six months, it was probably like three months or something or two months. Um, and it was a, I don't even remember what it was exactly. It was a video on a server. I was a coder on. Um, and it did terribly. It flopped and I just deleted it and went, I'm trying again. I learned from that. I know what I did wrong. I think this is what people said in the comments. This is what, this is what I feel like I can do better. Um, and it also solidified. I was like, okay, I'm not ready yet.

42:57So I took another month or two to actually come up with even more of a plan and be like, how can I, you know, how can I learned what I did wrong. Like Mr. Beast even has videos up from when he was, you know, playing Minecraft or whatever. And a lot of people keep their stuff up. And I see a lot of people talk about like, oh, it's bad to remove your old stuff. Like leave it up. You want to see where you came from. And I agree with that. But at the same time, I was like, I really wanted to, I wanted to create a brand. I wanted to create, be like, hey, no, this is me. This does not represent how I view myself right now.

43:23I want to be viewed this certain way. And so here's my new brand. And so I, you know, I changed, I made my, my channel on content. I drew it myself. I the concept. I was like, how can I make it different than someone else? Because I said this off camera to you guys. But one of the things I think is people ask for advice, the best advice I can ever give someone on how to be successful in anything really, but in YouTube specifically, is just you have to do something that is different than someone has done or better than someone has done. So if you're taking inspiration from someone, how can you do it better?

43:52If you're going to see a Mr. Beast video and be like, I want to do that, something like that, Mr. Beast, that's perfectly fine. But like, how can I, what did he, what did he do wrong? I'm sure there's always something you can take and improve because guess what he does that himself to every single video he'll go back and watch through i'm sure and be like what can i do better in my own video so doing that to other people and doing it to yourself is like really important and um and i feel like i i did that and then i i came up with i was like okay how can i make it different for my channel branding i was like what if i just made my channel branding like kind of crappy i just made it kind of like it's just it's not it looks like i didn't try and so i do like a little smile guy and then i was like how else can i get in i was like what if i just use like a repulsive color I was like, I'll just use the most standout color.

44:29So I went into paint.net and I picked like piss green and went on my channel and was like, you know what? That's cool. And I ran with that. And then, of course, then I shortened the name from Dream Traps to Dream because I was like, Dream stands out more. I got so many people at the time that were like, even when I was first blowing up, they were questioning that decision and were like, Dream, like how you can't Google that, you can't whatever. But I was like, but it's so simple. It's so easy to spread. It's so unique. And it also encaptures everything that I love about myself and everything that I love about the world.

44:58And that it's a dream. Dream is the word dream. I want everything I do to feel like that, to feel like the word dream. Like you can be, you have your own world, you have everything you can do. And so I really, I thought I was like, no, I don't, I don't care if you can Google it. Eventually if I'm big enough, you can, you'll, you'll look up dream and pop me up instead of the definition of the word or whatever. It's all in the line of like creating your own reality. Yes. Even the branding, right? It's like the smiley face. I can create my own version of it. Even pre-face reveal, right? It's like a voice and an image and a concept, and I can create my own version of it.

45:32I think with the name, it reminds me a lot of Apple. That's something that I'm pretty sure Apple also dealt with. You can't choose the name Apple and expect to launch a tech company off of that name because people know it as a fruit. Truly, I think that's something that - Wasn't it? Because it was originally, well, I guess they had Macintosh. that was a company right was that what they started as Macintosh then became Apple or do you know I think Steve Jobs wanted it uh to be something that was accessible like a household item not something like Microsoft that people don't understand like what Microsoft is or what that means yeah but I remember it was either in uh the book that was written about Steve Jobs life or in one of the movies uh talking about that idea that like and having pushback on a name that like You can't pick an accessible name.

46:18So it's funny, actually. So talking about names. So my two roommates right now and my best friends for the longest time, George Not Found and Sapnap, they both went under different names. And we were friends for a very long time. And when my first video blew up and then I was, OK, I'm not still on. This could just be one and whatever. I think I know what I'm doing. I think I have a good strategy, but I'm going to apply it a couple more times, see what happens. I had video. It kept doing well. I went to first George and then Sapnap. and I was like, hey, I think I cracked the code to YouTube. I think I know how, whatever, but I was like, but I need you.

46:50I need you to be a part of it. And I need Sapnap to be a part of it. And so I went to him and I was like, if I have a plan and I tell you it, and you follow it, will you follow it to a T, essentially? And we follow it together, we put it together. And he was like, yes. And we sat there, I came up with the name, George and I found and Sapnap for them. And we sat there together coming up with them. But we had the rules for the names. I was like, okay, here's the rules. The rules are one, it has to be short and simple. It can't be too long. George Not Found was like the most, the longest it could possibly be.

47:21I was like two, it can't have almost any, if we can think of a single misspelling where someone could hear it vocally and misspell it, then rule it out. And so there were so many names we went through where it was like, ah, but they can put an E there instead of an A, or they can put a C there instead of an S or whatever. And I was like, no, I want you to be able to say your name out loud and have no one mishear it and no one be able to say it's not. And I was like, the other rule is you have to be able to get on every platform. And that was more for me. I was like, oh, you can't, we can't, I can't, whatever.

47:47And then I was like, and the final thing is that you have to be able to have some kind of meaning behind it. It has to have some meaningful thing to you. Like to me, dream is important. And so we have to make it something meaningful. It can't just be, you know, you can't just go, oh, I'm going to name it, you know, some random collection of characters or whatever. And so how we came to Sapnap was I flipped his old username, which was Pandas. I flipped it upside down. After it was upside down, I flipped it sideways, like the other way. So it was a P instead or upside down. So it was like sap naps instead of a D in pandas.

48:13It was a P. It's sap nap. How do you misspell that? And he was like, sure. Should I buy the account? I was like, I already did. And I did the exact same thing with my friend George. The one we were actually stuck on for him for a while, which he came up with was Sir George. And he was like, oh, because I can think of my branding with it. I'll have like a little monocle and like, which is funny because he never did anything with like a monocle or anything like that. It would be how the world would be different if Sir George existed. George is not found. But we came to George Not Found because I was looking for, it was when I typed in youtube.com slash SirGeorge or something like that, it came on the Not Found page.

48:45What if it's just George Not Found? I was like, you're a coder, it has meaning to you because you code, you have websites. And so we ran with that. So I think there's no right blueprint, otherwise everyone would do it if there was like, this is the right way to do it. But I think there are so many things you can do to increase the chances of you being successful. That's just good branding. Yeah. So I laid those things out And there was one of them. And another thing that I said to them, which still is, it stands very much to this day, is that we, we are good friends and that we will be friends.

49:14We will stay friends and we will stay together because one of the biggest things that actually does, that can hurt like a channel is like it, it, you changing the heart behind it. And I was like, if we're going to do stuff together and you're going to be in all my videos, we're going to be on each other's videos. We have to know, we actually like, we have to know. So we had this conversation where we were like, you know, do we like love each other? Do we love each other enough to be like, we are, you know, we're like family. We're, we are sticking together in this no matter what. We will work out everything thick and thin and make sure we stay together.

49:38Otherwise, let's be less associated. Let's do our own thing a little bit more than being a team. And I was like, even if this plan doesn't, there might be, there may be times where you see it and you go, ah, it doesn't seem like it's working. But the problem is it has to all go together. You can't, you can't, you can't take parts of it away. Otherwise you lose it all. I didn't know that. They both agreed. Sounds like a conversation that would be had at the beginning of the Beatles or One Direction. Yeah. Right. I saw a clip of One Direction. I had no idea. This is so off topic, but it's so quick.

50:03I had no idea. it was like a TikTok clip where it was like one direction being formed. I didn't know it was like, it was formed by them. They had like little pictures. It was like a Simon Cowell or whatever. I saw that. I thought it was like a troll, like parody thing. No, it's real. Yeah. It was like calculated. Is this real? Yeah. I was like, what? But that friendship is so important. Like, and I think because creating is a lonely career and it can be isolating, you know, Samir and I, I think we've said often, I don't know if we would still be doing this. If it was just one of us. Right. We took it a step further and had the channel together.

50:33Right. I would not be just to save. Oh, that's an air tag on my mask that's going off. Whoa. Okay. Someone's trying to find you. Oh, someone's trying to find you. No, it's like a glitch happens now and then. It's like there's a piece. I think someone about to show up. Are the police coming? Do your parents call the police? There's like a piece of it. I think it presses up against it or something. And then it makes it look good. See, I do think like genuinely I can say right now with 100 % confidence that if we had decided to go more independent route. We were not a team and I hadn't done almost everything with them throughout the years.

51:06That like, there's been so many different times throughout it where I may have just called it quits or been like, ah, hey, I'm successful. I'm going to go and do, now that I have money or whatever, I'm going to go and just write in my free time or I'm going to go and, you know, do this or whatever I want to do and having them as a support, support backing, and know like, no, no, I'm also in it for, I'm not just in it for me, I'm in it for them, I'm in it for my family, I'm in it for whatever. I think that definitely helped me as well. So this, like this strategy that you had clearly panned out, right.

51:34And it panned out really quickly, you know, your first or your second video blew up, which was totally luck. Totally. I mean, yeah, the strategy was not, but it's like, I, there's another quote that actually my dad used to say a lot. Yeah. Um, uh, is he'd be like, he's a sports guy. And so he coached me in sports and stuff. And he'd always say like, you're like, I'd say, Oh, I was just lucky shot. So he's like, well, it's like, no, the luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity. Yeah. Yes, it could be lucky, but at the same time, you know, it doesn't mean you, you can't just like expect luck to come.

52:01Yeah. So the fact that it was so quick was definitely luck and had a lot to do with, um, the, the, the COVID pandemic, um, because everyone went inside and what are you going to do when you're inside? You're going to watch YouTube or watch live streams. And so I contribute how fast it was, um, to, to that timing. Um, but obviously, yeah, it did, it did pan out and there was a lot of luck and a lot of strategy and, uh, you know, a lot of hiccups and stuff that popped up randomly that were like, Oh, this works out. It was 500 days between 1 million subscribers at the end of 2019 to 20 million subscribers.

52:35That's crazy. That is crazy. Yeah. That is just, that is insane. I, yeah, I was, I, I was, uh, just, I just hitting milestones like twice a month or something and being like, Oh my God. Um, it was, it was really hard to, it felt unreal, I guess. You know, I, I always would be like, I'm going to wake up and this is going to be fake. Like I, this is not, this is not, how is this happening? Um, and it was such a quick transition that I never really got to go through the phase of being like a mini celebrity to being like, it was just like, no one knew me. And then everyone knew me. I was the face of, you know, YouTube for a year or whatever.

53:06And so it's, it's really interesting to think about that fact that I never, I never, it's the same way where like, I never got that experience because, especially because I was faceless and I only faced real. Then it was of course, that was my max. I went from, you know, never having been approached by anyone ever in public ever to literally not be able to leave my house without going into a 7-Eleven and having somebody be like, oh my God, Dream, can I take a picture? And so that's so - How did people know it was you? No, I'm saying after the Face-Reveal. Oh, after Face-Reveal. So yeah, after the Face-Reveal, it was very much.

53:31I mean, I had a couple like scary moments before the Face-Reveal. Like I had one person that was delivering a mattress that was like, he's like, do you do YouTube? And I was like, no, why? And he's like, you just sound familiar. And I was like, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, no one before I did the Face-Reveal did, But then after I did it, I was like, I would go outside and it would just be mayhem. And it's also, it's one of the things where I actually, it was weird for the first like day or two and then I adjusted to it. But I had this like, this, this moment where there was like a day or two where like, it felt really weird going anywhere because even the people who didn't recognize me, I, I, I could sometimes see somebody whisper and be like, oh my God, are they talking about me?

54:11Do they, you know, I didn't have the experience of knowing what it was like to kind of walk around in public. Yeah. But now, now I'm okay with it. I'm just, I've accepted it and just be like, oh yeah, you know, who, who cares, whatever. But it's still that thought where like, it's sometimes it bothers me more if, if I know someone knows me, but they don't say anything or them. Cause I'm like, oh my God, like I, I'm like 99 % sure this guy that's sitting next to me at dinner knows me. They're not saying anything. So I'm constantly, oh my God, are they gonna take a picture of me? Do I need to watch, do I need to make sure I don't pick my nose?

54:35You know, whatever. I mean, we are, our fame and our level is nowhere near yours, but even I've had an experience where I've been out to dinner, uh, with my partner. And then after I'll get a comment on the channel that's like, Hey, I didn't want to say anything, but I was right next to you at a communal table was the experience. And you're like, did I say something? And you're like, Oh, we were kind of having like a serious conversation about our relationship and family and stuff. Like, Whoa, I wish I knew that you were seated right next to me. Yeah. I'll have that. And it's, it's, it's, to me, it's, it's funnier because like, I keep obviously my family and like relationships and whatever separate, very separate from like YouTube and, and like the public eye.

55:10So no one knows my family or, or, you know, whatever. And, and so, but sometimes when I'm out in public, because i don't i don't mind i'll still go out in public with my family i'll still go out in public with you know people um friends you whatever but um but like when i'm i noticed that when i'm with like my family the people i get come i get i get people coming up to me way less than i'm than when i'm with with like other people even people that they don't recognize like if i'm with george they don't even they don't recognize george comes to me oh my god dream take a picture whereas i'm with like my mom or my dad they don't it's because i think they they recognize that's his mom or that's his dad or that's like you know someone he's with or whatever and then they don't come up.

55:46And I'm like, so then it makes me paranoid. So now it makes me more paranoid. I'm like, no, no, I want you to come up. That way I know that I can tell my mom to go away or whatever. And so it just makes me extra like on edge. On that rise to like just mega kind of high viewership, just like massive notoriety on YouTube. I'm so curious about what makes a dream video so popular because some of your videos have in the hundreds of millions of views. Like what are the ingredients that make a dream video that popular? I think that there's, there's, I've gone in obviously like phases of growth and I've, I've posted a lot of videos.

56:20I think genuinely like every video on my channel right now I have up, I'm pretty proud of. I think they're good videos, even the ones that I'm like, eh, my mic was kind of bad there or this is a dumb joke or whatever. Um, but I think that they all have something very similar and that I kept, I kept with every series and every video I did one, I kept improving. Um, and two, I kept trying to do something new, something different that someone hadn't done or something unique to me that I was, I was passionate about. And I think, uh, you mentioned like mask earlier, but that, that song, the big point of that song to me, even though, yes, it is, it was, it was about obviously escapism kind of in, in through the mask.

56:54It was also about my experience with ADHD, which, um, which affected my life massively when I was going through school and everything. Obviously I have like extreme intense ADHD, like very extreme. And so I go through these phases of like, like hyper fixation where I'm like focused on something and I cannot, like, I want, like, I deal with my books. There was a period of time where I was just, I was reading a book every single day and just from morning to night, whatever. And I wouldn't enjoy doing anything else because that's what I liked at the time. And I did that with different, like YouTube series.

57:21Like I would get into a YouTube series, like I love this, you know, one until I don't anymore. And then I'm like, oh, okay, I'll find something new. But I think that the biggest component for me was one, everything I did, I truly had passion behind. It was something that I, that I actually did genuinely enjoy something I wanted to do. It was not me going, Hey, this could blow up on YouTube. It was me going, Hey, this is a fun thing for me and my friends to play, or this is a fun topic for me to talk about, or this is a fun video for me to edit, or this is going to be funny or, you know, whatever.

57:47Um, so I think that's kind of one component is just genuinely, you know, actually having your meaning behind your videos, which is, goes into like the name thing, meaning behind your name. That's important. Even though it seems not important, it is important. Um, I think another one was, uh, again, doing, doing things different. So taking, you can take the same concept and do it slightly differently. So one thing I did was like, I took a pretty simple concept of like speed running Minecraft, which became my biggest series of Manhunt. And I was like, well, what if someone was trying to stop me from being the game?

58:12That's kind of just an interesting, you know, an interesting component. And I Googled it and I tried to find if anyone had done that. I found one video of like someone in Super Mario Brothers or something having done something kind of similar. And it did. It did. Okay. I think the video did decent. I was like, Hey, but no one's, no one's like done this concept, but it seems so simple. You're just, you're speed running the game, which is a super popular thing. And someone's like trying to fight you, which is also a super popular kind of. So for a non-gaming audience, speed running is you're trying to beat the game as fast as possible.

58:35You're trying to complete the goal of the game as quickly as you possibly can. And then the manhunt part is someone, a new character or friend is trying to kill you. Yeah. They're trying to slow you down and make you make so you can't stop you from beating it. So it's like, yeah, you're trying to beat the game as quickly as possible. And there's someone that's trying to be your detriment. They're trying to be your downfall. That's just good storytelling too, right? It's like main character has an objective. Here's the obstacle. And then you introduce what actually took it off. So the first manhunt video It did okay.

59:03I did not go into that thinking, this is going to be this massive series, but I saw the potential. After we did it, I was like, wow, that was fun. That was super fun. I watched the video back and I was like, this is epic. And when I was editing it, I actually was able to use music that I hadn't used before. I was like, it's actually interesting. I'm using music that I don't typically hear in Minecraft, like gameplay. Like I was using more intense, like kind of like opera music or something or stuff like that. And I used a couple like that. I only used it for the first man. I only used like one or two songs like that, which ended up being almost all the music later on in the manhunts it was not a great video but the concept was unique and then the music made it feel more intense than it was when there were certain moments and stuff and then i edited in a way where i cut out some i i cut things in almost like a misleading way like i i cut things around i move things around i'm i'm kind of notorious for like making it seem like something is true that's not in in the video it's where like you can feel like i'm about to die when in reality if you're if you watch the raw footage like oh he was not even close to dying.

59:59He was like, he was fine. Or he had some reason to believe that he was going to be fine. Um, and so I, I, I realized after that first video that I did, I did a crappy job at it. The editing was okay. It was, you know, the concept we had, the video wasn't that great, but I realized the potential it had. And so I, I did it, you know, five, six times kind of learning. And I, I, you know, trained and did, and it became a better Minecraft player as well, kind of in that process. And then I introduced, going back to what you said about like two, two awesome things. There's the third one, which is a, you know, just a worldwide understandable thing, an underdog, like if you have an underdog.

1:00:29So all I did was I was like, what if I did the same thing, but it's two people trying to stop me. So then the concept just becomes, you know, same thing, Minecraft speedrunner versus two people instead of one person. And it's the exact same concept, but all of a sudden now you have someone to root for. Now you have a reason why you go, not only, you know, I'm trying to beat the game, someone's trying to stop me, but here's why it's hard because there's two of them and there's one of me. Oh my God. That's so interesting. Those are really easy optics. Yeah. It's, it's such an easy thing. You can, you can, anyone can see that thumbnail, see two people and one person below and be like, which I used almost every single video, um, which Mr.

1:00:57Beast actually like called me one time. And he was like, why do you use this? Almost the same thumbnail on everyone. And how does it work? How does it keep getting the views? I was like, I think it's just because no one was doing what I was doing. And so when they saw that thumbnail or a very similar, I would change certain things just to make it. So you would be like, oh, that's different. Um, that you knew that was dream. You'd go, this is, this is dream. This is a dream video. Wow. I want to, I want to watch this one. You know, that's the thing that's so important is like brands are consistent you know at a glance you can tell if it's dream right and that's like from your your face your logo like there's so much about you yeah the lime i mean i made my minecraft character yeah i mean like you can customize it um like almost full body lime green and then like a little thing yeah and one of the reasons for that was i was like it stands it like just stands out so much you see me like when i was small you'd see me in a thun with other youtubers and you just you would just see the green blob that's there instead of the other people because they just look like other minecraft guys and everyone's like why do you have this good It doesn't even look like a Minecraft skin because it looks ridiculous.

1:01:53And you look at it and go, wow. Yeah. So as your viewership really starts to take off, Manhunt series is taking off. What does your operation look like from a business perspective? Like, is there a moment when lots of money starts coming in? Yeah. That's actually a really good question. I think that my first paycheck I ever got obviously was right before my rent. But I don't remember a moment where it was like, I think it went from zero to 100 so quickly that I never had that moment where it was like, oh, my God, I'm rich. like that there was never that it was just kind of like this is working and then it was this constant fear of losing it was this constant fear of yeah i had made this this month but like this this could be gone so i need to grind my ass off to make sure that yeah it's just not this next month that it's gone um and so i never i never really had that moment i guess my operation's always kind of been it still is it's definitely grown a lot more now like i still have edited every video that's ever posted my channel myself oh wow um and i plan on doing that on my main channel for the at least for the foreseeable future i've started branching out into we should get an editor for my second channel and editor for shorts and stuff like that.

1:02:53Um, because I definitely don't have the time anymore to do stuff like that. But like I coded the plugins for the longest time on my channel, me and George, um, we coded stuff and until we hired a friend of ours, that's a developer that we coded with and stuff with. And so we, the stuff we really needed was like thumbnails to be made. We made, we Photoshop me and George would sit there and Photoshop them together. The editing I did. And then, uh, the, the video concepts we came up with and then the code to make them work, we coded. And so it was like the operation was really just like us spending every single day just grinding and doing it.

1:03:22I think that the fact that like we did that, it made it more unique to us and it made us that we had an advantage over other YouTubers. And that like, you know, we wanted to do something in Minecraft. We didn't have to go reach out to somebody and pay and do all this stuff. We were just like, let's just do it. Let's code it. Let's let's make it happen. And so for a lot of my first videos, we did crazy things like a tornado into Minecraft or whatever that we just coded ourselves. And we're like, we can put this in and no one else can do it because they can't code. They're a YouTuber. Yeah, the unique factor was you.

1:03:47So was there though, like, I've heard you say that, like, if someone asks you what you do and they aren't familiar with YouTube, you say I'm in advertising. I used to say that. Which I think is such a, it's what Colin and I said. And I still say sometimes if someone's completely unfamiliar, I'm like, I'm in the advertising business. Yeah. So was that for you? Like initially the money was all coming from AdSense or did you start doing brand deals? Like, um, yeah, I mean, it was all AdSense for the longest time. I released like merch, I think in like mid 2020. It was good, but it was not like a massive revenue stream until later on.

1:04:23And then I had like a Patreon where I posted the plugins that I would code. Got it. That was actually for a while. That was a pretty big because I used to post like maybe once, twice a week or something. And with a new unique plugin, I would just put them all up on there for 20 bucks or whatever. You could have all of them if you wanted. And so there was a lot of even other YouTubers that were like, what? And going and doing that. That was probably a decent amount of time. That was one of my biggest, uh, revenue streams actually. Do you remember like the first AdSense check you got where you were like, holy shit?

1:04:49Like, was there an amount that you were just like, oh my God. I think, I think I, I, it was a million dollars. It was over a million dollars. Holy shit. In one month? Yes. Oh my God, dude. I think that month, obviously I was like, that is absurd to be able to play Minecraft and make Minecraft videos and get a check in the mail that is a million dollars and be like, wow, that is just incredible. Now that was not a common occurrence, but it did happen. And what was your relationship to money growing up? Like as a, as a kid in your family, like what is your relationship to money? Like that, that million dollars can mean a lot of different things based on your relationship to.

1:05:31Yeah. So I feel like I, I guess my relationship to money is interesting. I like my family's, I think very, very middle class. I think we did go through some like financial struggles and stuff that there was a, when the recession hit, we moved and stuff related, obviously from that. And so we definitely went through like money problems, but I never would say, I'd still say we were middle class. And I, my experience was always, um, the fact that, uh, I felt, I felt, I never, my parents always did an amazing job of, I never even knew that there was financial struggles happening even during that time.

1:06:02Um, you know, you know, I still, Christmases were still the same, whatever, and everything was fine. Um, my personal relationship with my parents always made me, I guess, work for everything that I would have. I always had to, I guess that's probably mostly normal, but it was very much like a, you know, you, you know, you, we're not giving you money for anything. If you want to, you want to go to the movies or whatever, maybe we'll give you five bucks. but if you want candy or something or anything, or you want to drink, or you want to go to, you want to go to, you know, uh, you want to buy a game or whatever you have to work at work for.

1:06:29And they gave me avenues to do that. Oh, you can do extra chores for money or whatever. Um, but I remember, uh, the first time I got a check where I was like, this is extra money. Like, this is not money that I don't have anything to spend this on right now. Um, it was, uh, I took$50 ,000 and I divided it up to my entire family. I had my siblings. I had$10 ,000 to my mom, to my dad, to my sister, my other sister, my brother. And I did it because I felt like at that point I was like, okay, I'm at the point where I'm successful enough where I don't, if I lose it all, I'm going to feel like an idiot.

1:07:00I'm going to feel like I lost it all and I'm a failure, you know, whatever. But I felt like if I did that, if I gave that money to my family, that I could risk it all and never be worried that I'm going to feel like I'm a failure because I could feel like even if I lose it all, I didn't lose it all. Cause I, there was, there was a massive impact I had on my mom, my dad, my brother, whatever. And, um, so that, that was one of the first, that was one of the first times where I felt like, wow, I can really, truly do good with the money that I have. Um, and I, and I, I did that and I continue to do that for, uh, you know, a very long time with stuff like that.

1:07:32Like one of the, you know, after I got that million dollar check, the first thing I did was I paid off my grandparents house and they, they were going to lose their house cause they hadn't been paying, paying for a while and they, and, uh, paid it off. And I was like, you know what, here we go. And my grandma cried and said, I told you you were going to, you know, she used to, I mean, that's amazing, man. She used to joke and be like, you're going to have to, you're going to have to be rich and take care of me when you're older, you know, whatever. And so. That's making it at like a crazy level though, man.

1:07:59Like that, that's wild. I'm sure your family was just like, or even today, I'm sure they're just like, oh my God, you, you did the thing that you said you were going to do probably at a scale that is unimaginable. Right. Yeah. No, my parents are always really supportive and my family in general is really supportive and proud of me and i always get tear up with those messages from my dad especially given that we didn't used to have the best relationship even but we luckily i think it's also important to me that i i improved my relationship with my dad a lot before youtube like it was not at all i was i was on really i was like best friends with my dad when i started youtube cool that's great but i wasn't for the longest period of time but being able to be able to get a text from him saying i'm so proud of you you know you you are you inspire me so much because you do what you put your mind to and i'm like having that getting a text like that from like a family member or something is really makes me think okay well what's the impact i'm having on people that aren't yeah it's amazing and so you um you know we've seen you at uh vidcon before and the crowds are like they're young and they're excited and they're loud and they're large i'm curious for you what's your relationship with being in person in front of your fans uh with crowds that large i i feel like I weirdly haven't had it be, I remember the first time I ever, uh, there's a couple of things.

1:09:13One, the first time I ever started to interact with people in real life, it definitely changed my perspective on the number 30 million or the number of course where I was like, okay, yeah, that's, that's, that's crazy. Um, uh, and even just being able to be like, oh, I'm in like some random area in Alabama on a road trip or something. I'm walking into a seven 11 and, and, and there's some, you know, older guy being like, Hey, are you, are you dream? It's like, like, yeah, I think the biggest crowd I've seen in our industry or like the most rabid crowd I've ever seen is the dream SMP crowd. Like at VidCon, um, when we saw like, it's the closest thing to like Beatlemania that I've seen is the dream SMP.

1:09:50What is just to, for anyone who's completely unfamiliar, what is the dream SMP? Um, and what do you think has made it have this cultural significance that it does? Sure. Yeah. I think, uh, so the dream SMP it's, it's actually over now. It's, it's almost It was a show. It was a show almost. Um, the best way to describe it is it was a live show that you could watch the perspective of any character you wanted to. That's, that's kind of the best way to describe it. But to break it down to what it actually is, is it was a Twitch stream from different perspectives of people like me or my friends or whatever, playing Minecraft and role-playing live, um, to story points.

1:10:23Like we would, we'd come up with plots that we were going to do and then kind of role-play them. But we, there'd be, sometimes things would change when we, when we you know improv um and uh and and it was live on twitch so that's kind of what it was but i like to relate it to like it was like a it was like a tv show you were watching and you're watching all these different characters but it was the first one you could ever pick your character and watch their story no matter what it was i think that was the biggest thing that intrigued people about being like wow this is like a this is a very very interesting yeah uh like concept um and then i think that the fact that there was there it was like some people just having fun and playing Minecraft in a unique way for so long and really being like personable.

1:11:00I think the biggest reason that I've, I feel like at least I feel like I didn't find my audience, my audience found me. And I feel like the reason for that is because I've, I've just been genuine, I guess, like I've been myself and I've, it's just me and my best friends who I've been playing Minecraft with for 10 years that are playing Minecraft on YouTube. Wow. That's, you know, what a surprise. And I think that people really connect to that and relate to that. And I think that people criticized me for a long time. And I still get it. I get a lot less now than I used to for like parasocial relationships or, uh, you know, being like, you know, you're, you're almost, you're treating your fans like they're your friends or something.

1:11:33Um, which is kind of what that is. And in my mind, it's like, no, I'm, I'm just, I'm treating my fans. Like they're not numbers. Like they are people, they are people that are behind, behind that screen, behind that number. There is a person that has a life that has, you know, that has goals and aspirations and has things that every word you say impacts them. And I looked at it in my mind. I also had experience kind of with, with being like a, you know, Stan or being, being like a massive fan for, you know, when I was a kid of like, like sports, like I was like, I had sports jerseys and I was like the biggest fan of, you know, the Oklahoma Sooners and like their quarterback.

1:12:06I had like posters of him on my wall. And so I was like, uh, people, which quarterback just out of curiosity, I had Baker Mayfield. Of course I had, there were people before that. Have you met him? What have you met him? I have not met Baker Mayfield. I would love to be in Baker Mayfield. Yeah, it'd be super interesting. But I did go to the day. One of the first thing I did after my facial was I went to, they invited me to the Oklahoma Sooners. I met a bunch of the team, the current team. Oh, cool, cool, cool. And I went on and did some stuff there and went to a game. But it's an interesting point on the parasocial relationship.

1:12:31And I actually, I wanted to ask you about that because you do get a lot of criticism around, I think in general, you know, when you're at your size and scale. Yeah. But also because of how much you've evolved publicly. Like you grew up kind of over the past couple of years. Yeah. Under somewhat of a, not even a microscope, like under this massive light of people looking at you. One thing that as fans of this space and as being impressed with your branding, Colin and I bought this, which is your USB stick. Wow. Okay. So we bought this after your face reveal. Yeah. Just super curious about it. And on the notion of like parasocial relationship, on this is like photos of you as a kid.

1:13:14It's like more, more intimate look into clay. I would say. Yeah. Tell me about, tell me about this. Cause I was very intrigued by this. I think this had mixed reviews of like, yeah, there was a lot of criticism behind saying like, that's so creepy. He's putting like pictures of them. Like, so on that, there's, there's more than just pictures, but essentially like we were coming with the idea of doing a USB stick. And I was like, well, what if we put something on it? And I was like, what do we put on the USB stick to make it, you know, make it even more meaningful. um and what is something i would put on there that i wouldn't just want to like weed out or put somewhere else that i would only want my biggest fans to you know share on their own or if they get shared then whatever um and i thought of a bunch of stuff i thought of like i thought there's some expert like uh there's some parts of like my book that i one of the books i was talking about yeah i saw that on there um there's like yeah there's pictures of me as a kid there's like little there's emails from my like school teachers when i was a kid and it and i think to me it was just like this is a cool thing and i'm in i'm i'm very interested in like i'd be interested in seeing your baby pictures and like whatever and i i'd hardly know you i'll send you my baby pictures man what people were probably uncomfortable with too is like the format of it the fact that it was physical because it's really just like a patreon like you're giving like gated access to something yeah sure behind a paywall right like i'm sure there are selling my baby that was like they're like selling his baby it's like that's just like an easy headline i do think that's a little that if i was selling my baby hey guys just buy my baby pictures that is a little weird but you guys technically i am but in reality it was just like hey i want to i want to i want to put my kind of childhood and my my my me growing up on a usb stick and so that obviously includes here's how i see it because like the way i see it is you were talking about spider-man earlier in the interview this is like do you want to know the origin story of peter parker yeah right you want to know some lore about a character that you love and so i think it's like it's all new right all of this is new to have characters like you grow on the internet is to the size and scale i mean and we we didn't like and this is the thing as well as like we didn't increase the price because that i think it was the same price as it would have been without anything right it was just like i just wanted to make it slightly more than just hey a usb stick with a smile on it.

1:15:10Like I was like, Hey, how can I, and your core fans probably cherish this thing. Oh, they love it. Yeah. And this thing is like cherished by, and I understand what you're saying. Cause I grew up like massive fan of like emo bands, you know, emo and pop punk bands. And like, I still have, you know, guitar picks that they would, some bands would throw out. Right. And I would hold it and they'd be like, Oh, I caught it. You know? So like that type of stuff for me, I think that's like meaningful for you as a kid, whatever you connect with, you know, If you're a fan of something, this type of stuff is meaningful.

1:15:40So yeah, I thought it was really interesting. So when we talk about you showing up in physical spaces, I can't help but think about you touring as a musician. So music is obviously now, it has been a part of your brand, but it feels like in this moment, you're putting the mask back on, you released a music video at the same time for your new song. It feels like there's a little bit of momentum around music right now. and there's actually a history of faceless musicians. You brought up Marshmello, Daft Punk, Gorillaz, right? Like there's a history of this. And now that I'm like listening to the music, I'm looking at you, I'm seeing the brand.

1:16:18I'm kind of like, this looks and feels like something I've seen before, right? Just with a lot more fandom around it before you even go on tour. You know, they're different or better, right? Yeah. I mean, yeah, I love music and I, at this point now, I guess I've been dabbling in music for three years. Yeah. I went into music because of the storytelling aspect and never was, you know, I never was like, oh, I've an angelic voice or, you know, whatever. Yeah. It was very much like I had never even sang and I, but I had a story I wanted to tell. And I thought it was interesting that I didn't feel like I had a medium to tell it on.

1:16:56Like I wanted to tell a story. It was about, you know, one of my ex-girlfriends. and regardless of what the story was i was like that feels weird to like talk about on a live stream it feels weird to like put on a tweet almost feels like you're like targeting them or you're doing something along those lines and so i just i didn't i didn't feel like i really had a way to express certain like feelings or emotions i had whether it be about my family or about loved ones or about life experiences that just feel awkward almost in in other mediums and so i didn't know that whenever i reached out to parker who made my first song with um i reached out because I had, I had a story I wanted to tell.

1:17:29And I was like, Hey, I've never done music. I think it'd be fun to try. Um, would you be able to take this story and help me make it into a song? He was like, yeah. And then we did it. And that it really, once it was done and I put it out there, it made me realize how much of an outlet it was. I was like, wow, it feels great to be able to tell that story. Have it not feel weird. How have it feel, you know, organic and, and also be able to tell it in a unique way. And it was, it was fun. I mean, I was able to, I was crafting this big story and like i'm good i can write a book but then it's like condense it condense it condense it and it very much related me to like video editing and stuff like i do the same thing when i'm video editing you take a massive like you know vod and then you cut it down and cut it down you have to find out what's the retention bits you go down and that's like building a song in my experience so far has been the same i guess uh in that it's it's a very similar space in of condensing a story and still being able to tell it in a meaningful way um and so i i love i love that i did my first three songs um they each were very different from each other in terms of like the process behind them.

1:18:24One was much more like industry. One was much more on my own. And one was much more like just an intro with, you know, with a feature and whatever to be able to decide and be like, Hey, I actually, I feel like I enjoy this enough to take this seriously and almost take the same approach to what I did with YouTube, where I was like, Hey, if I'm going to treat this like a job, I have to actually treat it like a job and treat it seriously. Cause music industry is a very serious industry and making music is not, you know, you, you can't just go in and be like, Oh, Hey, I have a, you know, 10 million followers.

1:18:50And therefore I'm going to make music and people will listen to it. And so I wanted to, I primarily wanted to tell those stories. And then now obviously putting out more, I do, I do plan on stepping more into it. I just actually, it's just now pretty much public. This is the first time I guess I'm, I'm saying it specifically. But I signed a record deal with Republic Records last year, actually. It's been a long time now. Pre-face reveal or? No, it was, it was after the it was in the talks during, during that whole, during the face reveal, we were in, we were in discussions for a long time. Um, but then, uh, and, and, and really I was like, I went to them and was kind of like, Hey, I want to take music seriously.

1:19:28I want to, I want to do things with resources behind me. And, um, but I actually do want to do it right. So I want to learn, I want, I want to learn how to make music and how to do it right. And how to, um, you know, tell my stories. And so I spent a long time, you know, it's been, it's been two years between, um, my last song and the song I just put out. Um, and, uh, during those two years in the same way that during those, you know, six months I was studying YouTube. I was, I was looking into music and how it works and how the, how the, how the industry works and, and figuring out how can I, how can I actually put the stories out there?

1:19:55I want to put out there in a way that people will relate to people will enjoy and make them good and make good, legit music that you can listen to and be like, Hey, this is, I, I really enjoy this. I'm not saying my old stuff was not good or legit, but I think it's a, it's a lot less good and legit than a lot of the stuff that I'm, I'm working on now. um and so i'm yeah i'm stepping in more into the music world and the mask actually has nothing to do with that but i do think that it's it's cool that it has it's you know faceless is more normal yeah it's more normal in music yeah it's super interesting so you're for real like with music because like i feel like a lot of creators we see you grow a massive audience music's a pretty viable option because if you have the song that hits it's like or like tour like those are really good businesses and even like diss tracks could get millions but seriously like if you boil it down to like distracts which are some of the like musically some of the worst music yeah right but they're like culturally relevant to a group of people can find millions of streams right and so i think people have that thought uh same thing of like well you can just do it because you're popular yeah i mean i never i never really had that thought i guess um like again my first i was literally scrolling tiktok and i saw him i saw like a tiktok where he someone commented on his tiktok and he said like i'm turning like comment down below i'm turning your comments into songs and then he made like a banger song and i was like what this guy is like awesome how did he do that And I was like, you do that with me, that'd be sick.

1:21:13And then obviously enjoyed the process, but I didn't ever put out any music videos. I didn't up until this point now, you know, my first songs, I did almost no promotion for them. I never promoted them. Probably most people on my main channel didn't even know I made them other than maybe through memes or for people talking about them organically, like not through me. I didn't like try and throw it in people's faces and be like, guys, I'm making music, you know, whatever. I really just was like, hey, this is kind of, if you want to check this out, you can. I don't even know if I probably mentioned in a live stream or something.

1:21:41Um, and just, you know, put it out there and with the stories I wanted to tell until I found out that I was like, Hey, I actually feel like I can take this seriously. And then now, yeah, no, I w I want to step in. I want to, I want to learn. Obviously I still have a long ways to go. I still, I still, there's still, you know, upwards trajectory, just like with YouTube, um, in terms of like learning and being better at it. Um, so you just have to do it in public, which is, you know, it's an interesting thing. That's why, that's why I did take a lot of time as well to do some of it in private and to make sure, Hey, you know, if I'm, I don't want to start be like, Hey, I, you know, even, even just right when I signed the record deal as well, just be like instantly like, hey, no, I, you know, hey, I'm going to put what, I mean, you're going to see, you're going to see all the crap before we get to the gold or whatever.

1:22:18So I wanted to make sure I at least had some really, really good quality, high quality stories to tell because that is my most important thing. And then also work with some awesome professional producers and stuff that can make the sound really awesome. And then also take singing lessons and stuff to make sure that, you know, and learn how to sing and better, you know, use my vocal skills, which actually funnily enough is as a faceless creator, one of the reasons I blew up in the first place, not because of my singing, but my voice. Like I always got, I always have people say, you have an interesting voice.

1:22:44I like how your voice sounds, you know, in videos and stuff. And so, um, it's, it's not, obviously that's not necessarily for singing and doesn't mean I'm a good singer, but, um, what are your musical inspirations? Like where, cause like I have a sense of where I think they are, but I'm curious where they're actually from. I think I, I find it's, I've gotten asked that before. And my answer is always like, well, Well, I relate so much more to like the story behind the music than the music itself, which is I think why I have the avenue where I'm like, I want to tell this story. So like Alec Benjamin, who I did my third song with, he is such a forward storyteller.

1:23:17Like you listen to a song, you cannot miss the story. If you listen to one of his songs and his music, you cannot miss the story there. And the only reason we ended up collabing in the first place is because I was like singing a song of his on a Discord podcast of mine or something one day. and um and he saw it and reached out was like hey man and we talked and i talked about music and how you know what i was doing with it and we made a song but i i get inspired by a lot of a lot of um uh songs that have a really powerful like storytelling a funny example is like eminem like i i actually i'm i i feel like i don't i there's a lot of his music that i don't like and i don't like a lot of um his things but there's like multiple songs i've heard of his when i was like a kid on the bus or whatever where i was like wow that's like he did a song called headlights that was about his mom.

1:24:00I remember I cried when I was in a fight with my mom, put that song on and was like crying. And like, it's more of so like, I don't think, you know, he's an amazing singer or he's, you know, whatever, but the story that he put into it and the heart, you can at least tell there's heart behind the stuff. And so I feel like with my music, in terms of inspiration, I really just want to be able to encapsulate the stories because I have so many stories to tell and so many things that I want so much to put out into the world. And I've done it through Minecraft content. I've done it through, you know, streams and stuff, but it's touching a whole different group of people.

1:24:29There's people that don't, you know, that don't watch Minecraft or that don't watch streams and having a whole different group of people to kind of spread that same message to in a different memorable way where you can listen to a song and be like, wow, you know, I can tell there's heart behind this. I can relate to the story. And so even though like, as an example of talking about how I look at my old stuff and go, oh, that's kind of cringe or whatever. Like I love mask because of the fact that I, it was my heart and soul into it. I don't love mask musically. I don't love mask as you know, for my, my singing ability.

1:24:56Um, or even like lyrically, I think I could have told the story better this, but I love the fact that it was just me. Like I wrote almost all the lyrics and I sat there and was like, what story do I want to tell? And I, I told it. And so being able to keep that aspect while still learning and growing to me is, is really important. What's the story of your most recent song? Like what story are you telling with it? So, uh, my most recent song is called until Until I End Up Dead. And the whole concept of the song, the actual phrase, Until I End Up Dead, was actually just from a conversation when I got into the room on the day that I was writing Until I End Up Dead.

1:25:33And I was talking about a good friend of mine, a content creator, Technoblade, who was also a Minecraft YouTuber. He did a lot of the same stuff as me. We interacted, obviously, a lot. He was on the Dream S &P. and he was the same age as me and he had family and everything and he suddenly passed away from cancer. Obviously his dad posted a video on his YouTube channel that I'm sure a lot of people have seen and was very heartbreaking. And I had talked to his dad before then and knew the video was coming and was actually the person to break the news to a lot of people. I broke the news to dream s &p about it happening um because he reached out to me his dad reached out to me through his through technoblade's account um and said hey here's my phone number and we connected through that and um uh and then also about uh in a similar situation when i was a kid um i guess the situation similar but the the sentiment i got from it was similar um uh essentially a good friend of mine his mom randomly passed and he was the same age as me and everything and i remember being at her funeral and crying kind of selfishly because I was picturing my mom more so than because his mom was gone.

1:26:47Um, and I going back to techno blade, um, I was like, it made me realize like life is so short and he was just like me. He was the exact same age as me and had his life was so similar to mine. And I was like, that could have been me. That easily could have been me. I don't thing most people even probably realize this piecing it together but like he got his diagnosis according to what i put together from like techno dad and his dad um knew he was dying in like six months and then posted funny youtube videos about the fact that he was dying making you get it giving you know us hope and stuff as well and i just never even even knowing he had cancer i was just like oh yeah he's fine he's gonna be yeah i remember i remember vividly him posting the and being like, oh, he's, he's gonna be fine.

1:27:36He's the same age as me. Same, he's strong. He's gonna, you know, he's gonna push through. He's gonna do chemo and be fine. And then just being, you know, completely blindsided by the fact that, holy shit, he, he was dying and, um, and, and he knew it and he still was positive and, and encouraging people to be happy and trying to spread joy. I feel like that really, uh, I guess inspired me and, and, and made me realize that I, I need to be appreciative of, you know, the people and the things I care most about around me, my family and my friends and everything, you know, until I end up dead. And so telling that story through this song, it was very much a story of, you know, I some of the lyrics being like, I saw me when I looked at you and I and I look in the mirror to make sure I'm still here.

1:28:19Because I really did. And it was like this, like kind of almost like. What's the word I'm looking for? this vulnerable moment of like realizing that you aren't invincible and that you're mortal you you're not yeah you're not you mortality this yeah oh my god um and then uh obviously uh the way i kind of handle handling those emotions and realizing that he would want you to be positive he would want you to live your life and you know to the fullest and not and not you know harp around the fact of the of the things that you wish you had said or the things that you wish you had done or, um, and so being able to kind of take those like very conversational things that I just said, even in this conversation.

1:28:58And a lot of those are lyrics and those are things that I kind of put in the song and the meaning behind it and making it a very like happy, upbeat song that is sad because it's about, that's beautiful, man. That's really beautiful. And I love that you did a fundraiser connected to the music video. Um, yeah, that's to the sarcoma foundation, which is a foundation that, helps fight against bone cancer, which is the cancer that he, yeah, he had. Yeah. You never know how long you have left. That's really beautiful, man. I love that. It's a great story. I'm curious, as you grow with music, that music video also has you without the mask on in there.

1:29:40Is the thought as you continue to grow, are you very comfortable with continuing to grow fame? dream and are you are you comfortable continuing to grow that as clay or as dream um you know what does that feel like for you because you you did take down some of your irl content um and i think the world probably is wondering like i would assume the biggest question that the world is wondering is like do you regret the face reveal now that you're putting the mask back on um and as you grow like music has the opportunity to blow you up even further um yeah i i definitely don't regret the face reveal i think to me it's like i in order to live my life i feel like i i had to do the face reveal and i was in this constant state of like paranoia and like my life is way better now that i'm able to um like actually live my life and do what i want and um and so i i don't regret the face reveal whatsoever um but uh but obviously i think that if given the fact that like, let's say I had this mask and we could go back, like I maybe do things slightly differently, but it's also hard to say that because it could create a chain events where things go differently after that, like almost everything.

1:30:50Um, and so I'm, I'm pretty comfortable. And I think with, with music, it's like, I, I want to tell these stories and in my mind, it's like, yeah. Okay. If, if it involves me, you know, being more famous in order to impact as many people as I possibly can while I'm here on earth and living my life, then please, please i want everyone that possibly can to hear my stories and to um be impacted by them whether whatever emotion they feel i want them to feel something and i feel like that's um if that comes at the price of more people let's say being slightly more annoying going into walmart or something then it's like okay i can imagine that's really annoying right like i'm not like annoying but like you have to think about it it's not you can go to a coffee shop it's annoying it's annoying in the way that like i'll get up and be like i want to go to 7-eleven to get like a drink and then i'm like oh i have to get like actually dressed i can't just go out and like Do you have to have security with you too?

1:31:37No, no. I almost never do. I mean, I obviously I have security if I'm going to like a big event or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. But no, yeah. I mean, I get recognized a lot when I walk around, like just, just in general in public. But I've never had anything like bad or weird or anything with people in public. People are always respectful and stuff so far. What about being swatted? Have you ever been swatted? Yeah. So I have been swatted before. Interesting. And I, I have, and like members of my family have been swatted. Oh, wow. Most of my friends have been swatted. Oh. Um, yeah, it's definitely not a fun experience.

1:32:07That's such a terrible part of internet fame. It's one that most people just don't even, I feel like a lot of people probably even watching this don't even understand like what that is or like, what is swatted? Yeah. Like swatted is when being swatted is when somebody it's called swatted because the SWAT team. So someone will call into the police, like a fake police threat on a certain address or a certain place where you are and be like, uh, at this address, I'm holding a hostage right now and I'm going to shoot them in 10 minutes or whatever it is. I have a bomb. And so that's so dangerous. Streamer is live.

1:32:38Yeah. It doesn't even necessarily have to. All streamers live. Like I've been swatted when I'm not live and, and just, dude, that's so dangerous. I mean, people have, people have died, right? Yeah. From people, people have died. Pets have been killed. I mean, obviously that's not comparable, but it's horrible. It's horrible, man. It's something that shouldn't be the case. It shouldn't be. Like as an example, I, you know, I got a, I said it in my Facebook video, but I got like a text from, I got a call and it was from, I don't know number. And then I got a text and it said like, hey, this is the FBI.

1:33:01We need to talk to you. And I was like, FBI, very funny. Then I was like, this is a new number. I only got this a couple of months ago. Like, I don't know who has this. How is somebody like calling me? So I called my local police department. I was like, hey, I got a text from the FBI. And they're like, no, it's not the FBI. And I was like, well, can you make sure? Cause I have a reason why it could be the FBI. And they're like, no, no, you're good. It's not the FBI. and I was like well can I like talk to someone like higher that way just just like make a hundred percent sure and they're like okay yeah sure I'll uh I'll check with like the sergeant or whatever and they're like they're like uh one second oh actually the sergeant's on route somewhere right now wait the sergeant's on route to your house wait maybe it is the FBI and I was like oh okay all right thank you very much hung up and I called them and they're like yeah this is the FBI you have like a threat on your life right now we don't we don't think that we're gonna have to take you into like protection yet, but be on standby.

1:33:50Like in case we do, if you want us to, we can, we don't think we think it's, we think it's just internet trolls and stuff. Um, but it could be because people, people put it out with intent and it was someone that on their, like one of their watch lists or something. And they were like, they put it out. And so my reaction to that was, was very different than my mom's reaction to that. My reaction was, of course, this is stupid. I was like, nah, you know, I didn't, you know, it's fine. I want to go and I don't want to go into protection right now. This is, uh, it's probably, it probably is just someone being an a-hole or, you know, whatever.

1:34:18My mom's reaction was like, Oh my God, this, that's like, that's so scary. This is horrible. This is, you know, this is, this is crazy. Do you want to come to our house? You know, whatever. Um, and so I think that those are the kind of two different reactions where mine is a very, like, it's more like. It's a, it's a strange outcome of like getting better at the craft of being a storyteller and a creative person on the internet comes with this other thing, right? Like the outcome of that is fame, you know, potential danger like that. It's just interesting that that is such a, this is such a terrible way to look at things.

1:34:49And it's, I mentioned this in my facial video. One of the things I mentioned, I feel like I've, and probably most YouTubers and most people in my position, anyone with, with like fame has kind of come to just accept the fact that that's a part of it where it's like, it's almost like it, it doesn't bother me as much as you would think it would because of the fact that you're like, yeah, well, you got swatted again or whatever. Like, whereas with someone else, it'd be like the end of their life if this thing happened because it's this crazy thing that it is. That's crazy though. It comes with the territory when it shouldn't.

1:35:20It shouldn't. Yeah, that shouldn't come with the territory, man. That's wild. That can be a byproduct of just wanting to do good work that you think is valuable and interesting to people. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. So did that have, is any of that why you deleted some of the other IRL content, like face reveal videos, not there, Antarctica vlog? Oh no, not at all. And I think that to me, it was like, again, I was, when I was going back to the mask, it's like, I wanted a reason really to bring back this, this, this thing that I thought was so important to me as a dream. And I think that again, it, it created a massive splash and that it was everywhere.

1:35:55It was, you know, there's probably over a billion views on like Twitter and Instagram and Tik TOK and about people being like dream deleted whatever and i remember sitting there and i was like do i want to um and i privated everything so everything's everything's not deleted except for on the platforms where you can't and you have to delete yeah i'm like uh do i delete this like the face reveal tweet it had like a million likes or something and i was like kind of got it if you're doing it i was like i'm going all the way i'm going to delete it man um they're still there for memory's sake and stuff yeah um you know who knows way down the line or something but for now it's like i really wanted to i just really wanted to solidify no i'm i'm being serious i want i want this to be i'm fine with being you know clay and dream but i want to know that when i'm dream i'm dream anyone can be dream anyone can do whatever but clay you know kind of man behind the mask you know whatever um that's fine but i want the separation of like when spider-man spider-man he's spider-man he's not he's not peter parker you know in that way not really back superheroes again but it's the same thing i wanted to bring that back and so i think it will be i'm i'm gonna be fine with you know making appearances and and yeah you know not not wearing a mask everywhere um eventually um but uh But for now, I was like, I really want to solidify this and make sure that it's known.

1:36:59It's like, no, this doesn't matter. I can. Sure, you said 40 million views or whatever. It doesn't matter. Anyone can be behind it. I can delete that. And it's still my, who I am doesn't change. It doesn't change the fact that I am who I am and I've done what I've done. And so I think that's, it's just a way to solidify it. Interesting. Is like personal life complicated with this amount of fame and this amount of notoriety? Yes. Okay. 100%. Like dating, friendships, all that. Yes. Don't get me started. It is so impossible. I don't know. I got asked a question on a panel at VidCon yesterday and it was along those lines.

1:37:35It was like, you know, how do you separate your personal and your work life? And I was like, I have, please, someone up your, one of you other creators, do you have an answer for that? I have no idea. It's so hard because when you're in the limelight, then anyone around you is in the limelight. When you're including your friends and people, you know, you can get, you can criticize someone for, uh, you know, for something that their friend did and be like, Oh, whatever. And so I think that, um, I don't, I don't know. I don't know the answer. I always like, that's one of the questions I like to ask creators about and talk about and you get into it.

1:38:04How do you, how do you guys, uh, you manage like, um, I remember talking to like, uh, Anthony Padilla about it. Um, and he gave some good advice on it as well. Yeah. Um, I feel like that's a big struggle no matter, no matter what, for, for YouTubers, but also for, um, just anybody, anybody who has any kind of like fame. Yeah, for sure, man. I'm sure that's super complex. I think for you specifically, like because a sense of mystery is almost a part of your brand, right? People want to know more about you. Yeah. But I think it happens no matter what. Like, yeah, that's true. There was people being like, well, if you, if you want to stop the, you know, like doxing and harassment, then just reveal your face.

1:38:39And it's like, well, obviously that doesn't stop. Yeah, that's not going to stop it. It might amplify it because you're more interested or something, but it doesn't stop. It happens to everyone. It's just, it just makes it more of like a, But there's like slightly more of a reason because they're like, oh, I can I want to find out what he looks like or whatever. So. So at this point now, when you look out the next two to three years, do you know what success looks like for you, both like personally and as dream? Yeah, I mean, I feel like I've always had the view that like success is defined by your brain, obviously.

1:39:10So it's like there's no there's no like, oh, you made money, therefore you're successful or, you know, you you had this job, therefore you're successful. But I think success to me is always just being happy with what I'm putting out while also contributing like an upward positive thing to the world in terms of like, you know, like social media and like actually actually talking about like numbers and things like that. I feel like it's such a changing space that, you know, one one number is meaningful one day and meaningless the next day. One video is amazing one day and kind of crappy video the next day.

1:39:41And so it's really hard to look even, you know, six months in the future and say like, oh, well, this is, I think this is success if I'm doing this, or I have this many subscribers or, you know, whatever. And so to me, I feel like it kind of has to be, and maybe that's why I have a healthy relationship with numbers. I feel like I have to separate it and go, no, no, no matter what the numbers are, like you can use that as a guide to try and you want it, you obviously you want to increase numbers, so on and so forth, but you can just use that as a guide for doing what you love and doing what you can to like improve the world, I guess.

1:40:09And so. Yeah. Talk us through this new mask Oh yeah This seems really cool Oh That's alright Dream There's a little bit of a blind spot So first of all We'll talk about that first That is a clap So right in the middle there I'm surprised that didn't happen earlier man Yeah Do you want a Do you want a break for a towel? Yeah it's not That's actually not that big of a deal Alright so Thanks Jesse Yeah It's all good Well now This goes down in Colin and Samir's show history There's never been a spill At least I have an experience excuse for it. That's true. Yeah, you have an excuse. I feel a little worse than I do.

1:40:44Okay. So, yeah, talk us through this mask. Yeah, so this mask was made by obviously a professional mask company that, like we said earlier, made the mask for a bunch of different places. It's actually, it's pretty sick. I mean, I can see through it pretty well, except for in a couple of places. I actually can't see through the mouth or the eyes, so this cup was kind of like right there in the bottom. I'm looking forward and I can see the cup. Can I try it on? Yeah, of course. It's actually a laser like fit to my head and my skull. Oh yeah, you have a big head. I have a big head. I have a very big head.

1:41:13I got a really small head. Wow. It was two dreams. There's another one, right? Oh yeah, there's another mask. You want to put it on? You want to put it on? I'm interested. Yeah, of course. Where is it? It's right behind us. We're there in that back. This is much more comfortable and easier to see than I anticipated. And I would imagine it's even more comfortable for me because it is fitted to my skull. And so like the pads go right up against my face and everything fits really perfectly. There's something to it too that you almost feel like a sense of safety. I don't know if you feel that way, but right now I feel like I agree I think it is really cool One thing that I've noticed is like This is kind of funny but also kind of bad Like, there you go, three dreams Three dreams in the podcast This is like, I'm doing a podcast with myself now You can like look anywhere It looks like you're looking at me I'm looking at the monitor right now, like way over there I'm looking at the monitor too I've noticed that in public sometimes if I see somebody Usually if I glance at something like what is that guy wearing?

1:42:06I might like look at it. Oh God, I don't want to stare. I can just like stare and be like, what is that guy wearing? Whatever. It's just part of your superpower. It feels like you can see more of the world. Like you see the world and the world doesn't necessarily, isn't able to like see you. Which is so cool how that even works. I don't even understand it. That's why I was with the whole science thing. How does that work? How can I see? I definitely can't tell how close I am to the mic right now. Yeah. There's some blind spots. I see it. Yeah, for sure. There's definitely like kind of middle here.

1:42:31It can get, and also it depends on like the lighting. And it also depends on like, like if I'm sweating a lot or something, like it'll like clog up the pores in it. And so it makes it even like harder to see. Yeah. Yeah. I'm having like a lot of stuff. Like it's still not even done. Like I'm having a lot of like attachments made for it. Obviously, like I already had like, I didn't bring it, but I have a straw attachment. Yeah. That's funny. I can drink. I want like an umbrella one, a mic one and a bunch of other stuff. And also even with the hood, it's like these are magnets. And so there's it's magnetized to it so I can like shake my head and not come off.

1:43:04Which is, I think, pretty cool. This is awesome. Maybe one day it'll be like when they release a new iPhone. And it's like. There's the new Dream Mask. Drop a new Dream Mask 3.0. Yeah, that's funny. So do you envision yourself, by the way, like going on tour? Like, I'm putting this back on. This is more comfortable. Like, can we see you on tour in the next year or two? I think that you should wait and see. Oh, Dream. How dare you? How dare you leave us on a cliffhanger like that? well if you do go on tour and and you stop here we'd love to come um you're welcome genuine fans of your music um yeah we were yeah we were playing it loud today yeah this this conversation for me i can't wait for you to hear my new stuff dude i can't wait um this conversation for me has been like so revealing um of like who you are like who you actually are i've had so many questions and again i think you've been like you know a mysterious part of of youtube for me um Um, but this has been an awesome conversation, man.

1:44:01Like I really appreciate you. It's been awesome for me as well. I feel like there's a, it's, it's nice to have a chance to just kind of sit here and under almost no constraints, just be like, Hey, let's, let's just talk. Yeah. I appreciate you being so vulnerable too. And like just being open and answering all of our questions. Like it's awesome, man. Thanks for allowing me to make me feel comfortable. Yeah. Thanks dude.