An Unfiltered Conversation with Jesser (18.6M subscribers)

31:55Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That feels like it's very right now. Like if you're watching a bunch of creators, you start to recognize like once a format hits, right. Whether it's$1 versus, you know, a hundred million dollars from Jimmy, right. Like the$1 versus was a format that worked really well for him or Ryan Trahan's like one star reviews. And once you see one hit, you see them that do like a ton of iterations of that and start to build upon that format. I feel like that's like the YouTube philosophy is like, okay, I don't know what your magic number is, but it's like, I'm going to do, if I'm uploading seven videos, five of them, I know I've already done, tested, they do well.

32:30Two of them are experiments. If the experiment does good, do it one more time. If it bangs twice, it gets to that. It adds to the bucket of these do good. I'm going to keep doing these. It's just, I feel like if you do that and you're constantly adding the experiments in there, it's just the cycle. I think that's the thing is the balancing act of, I know this works and this is a brand new experiment. Because as you start to grow, those experiments start to take on a new level of risk. Like, was there ever a period for you as you're growing where you were like afraid to experiment or like felt like the stakes were really high?

33:03Like if you uploaded one bad video. Definitely. I think for me that was getting out of gaming, like out of 2K was really scary. Especially more once I got into the analytics part of it because before like I thought about any analytics, I wouldn't care. I would just be like, okay, I'm gonna do a vlog today or I'm going to try to bake a cake without instructors. Whatever sounds right. Like I would just sit down in the morning and be like, what am I doing today? But then when you see the analytic side of it, it's like, okay, I probably shouldn't do that. I know, there's a real freedom to the life before you get to it.

33:33I know, there's such a creative freedom to that life. I know, once you get into it, man, you're just like, I don't know. But it works, that's the thing. It works, I know. But that's when you change from being like creative and free to being strategic. And obviously this is a business and we're entrepreneurs. we're going to be strategic. And a lot of us are also into like games. And YouTube is this game where if you like tweak this thing, then this goes up. And you're like, oh, that's fun. I like it when the numbers go up. And we trust those numbers at least a little bit more so than like, it's hard to know how to read a certain amount of comments or see people tweet about your video and know, you know, what that means stacked up to the next video or the video before that.

34:16Like the metrics are just all we sort of have, right? It seems like up to now, everything's pretty linear and growing up and to the right for you from zero to a million and a bit beyond. From one million to now, to 18 million, what were the big, were there big challenges? Yeah, I would say there was definitely a moment where it was everything kind of changed. Because for, let's say, starting in 2014 on the main channel, uploading a lot, I think I was seven years in. I was at like 3 million subscribers so it was very like slow steady growth good community um but pretty much what happened is like I was like I want to grow like I see all these people growing I'm like I feel like I gained like 10 ,000 20 ,000 subscribers a month pretty consistently like every month for the last couple years and I was like I had like am I not working hard enough what am I not doing so I was like I'm gonna daily vlog right so I was like that's how you you can't work harder than the daily vlog like that's that is a classic youtube thought yeah we've all been there I start doing the daily vlog and instantly my views start dropping but I'm like whatever next day you're not even worried about it because you're worried about the next day and I'm like 25 days in and I get mono and I'm just out I can't vlog I'm just in bed horrible sickness did you do a mono vlog?

35:38I did but I'm literally like at the doctor's office crying because I can't do the vlog anymore because I was like I was months of like I'm going to commit to this yeah that's the universe though just telling you like hey pump the brakes man I'm literally crying on camera without being sick and not being able to continue my day just stop just please stop the moment it was like the world was going down on me but it was a blessing in disguise because then when I was sick I was like you know what the daily pause really weren't working my views are all down like and then that's when I started working with Patty Patty Galloway yeah the goat and then he was looking at my vlogs and he basically like what stuck with me i think that made the shift for my channel and everything he was like okay all your vlogs are very catered towards your audience like daily vlog is really like building it's just like you don't grow but you just you give your community it's like all inside jokes so i'm starting off the videos with inside jokes like and i'm watching these i'm like yeah this is a new viewer like they do not know what's going on or like they're gonna leave yeah and he was like hey you have to make videos that your current audience will like and new viewers will like and i never thought about that at all it's like 2019 or 20 maybe and then i basically after that i tried doing videos that i was like had really broad general appeal that new viewers would like and then the videos went when these daily vlogs are doing like two 300k video then to like very fast a million views a video what's an example of uh one of those titles that would be like more broad so i think the one that like set it off was like going to three nba games in 24 hours it was like that was the first one that that just banged off the gate i think that's the first jesser video i've watched which was i think it was more than that though it's more than three well yeah so three was part one then that bangs let me do this again and again is that concept that you came up with with patty like in one of your sessions together or uh that come about i don't know where i thought of it i don't think it was in one of those sessions but i probably was like you should do this i can imagine but yeah that that's kind of what started it off was that video in particular yeah i i ended up watching that's my first video of yours i watched uh i don't remember which one it was but you go to a ton of games i don't know i go to so many you go to so many nba games in this video and i was like this is an interesting concept because looking at the title and thumbnail it's it's interesting the title is interesting and it seems impossible so you and i think that's what makes a really good title thumbnail is it's like, hmm, that seems impossible.

38:06I think of it as like a, almost like a good packaging is like the magician pulling a rabbit out of a hat where it's like, okay, I know that didn't just happen exactly like that, but I enjoyed the illusion of it. And a good title thumbnail is like an illusion where it's like, I went to X amount of NBA games in 50 hours and you're wearing like three, you know, jerseys. And I'm like, I, I can't imagine that's exactly what happened, but now I'm curious, you know, now I'm curious enough to click. Um, so that's the one that got me. That's the first one. That makes sense. That the one video, let me make this for the viewers.

38:47It worked. What were those sessions with Patty? Like, I hear a lot about working with Patty Galloway and I I'm intrigued by the fact that you grew up as an athlete and into sports and you clearly have had different like coaches or like do you think about it like that? Like you're more receptive to working with someone like Patty because of your relationship to having coaching? I never thought about it like that, but I guess, yeah, I feel like sports is very like you have your coach, you listen to them and I guess it's very similar. Like I've always tried to get like mentors and coaches. So I feel like he was definitely that for me.

39:21But I guess the session working with him is like, he'll break down the video we posted so like just break it all down like what went wrong what was good about it so that was like a majority of the call and then you know presenting to him like what do you think of these new ideas and then getting his thoughts there i mean that was the big one just like breaking down the videos and like okay every video would be like what do we do how do we make this better next time because i remember and then he did it he showed it i was so hype in his uh vids vid summit oh yeah he did like a presentation thing and it was like the going to three NBA games.

39:53It's like the next one was going to five NBA games. And it was like a 17 minute video. And we fixed everything from the first one. And he was like, you could have done this better. You could have done this better. And then the retention was like 70%, like a 17 minute video. And it, what were some of those fixes? Oh God, what were they? It's been so long. I think like, I know one is like, once I get to the final game, just end the video because like you completed the challenge. So it's like, if you notice on all my videos, once I get to the final arena, I'll literally end the video in the first quarter.

40:23I'd be like, I made it to the arena. I'm out. Because people stopped. We noticed people stopped watching once I completed the challenge. Basically, if there's nothing else to wait for. Yeah. Unless you introduce something brand new. You're like, now that I'm at this stadium or arena, I need to do X. But if you don't do that, then it's done. Yeah. So I think that was, that was one that I remember that stuck out. It's like a learning, okay, let's try to do this next time. Right. And then I think the other thing though, like once it all clicked is like at the time that was right when I got my office, space like a warehouse and that's also at the time where i started building out a team because i realized all the other youtubers had a team like i remember i went to preston's warehouse and they had like 20 people running around i was like real operations like what is going on what do these people do i'm like you're with like four people like then i was like okay i need to i need to make a team like i need to learn so i started like talking to other youtubers who had teams and just like asking everyone like how do they do it what do they do what are all these people for So then I started like reinvesting everything into the team at the same time.

41:26So then I had a bunch of great people around me like Patty and then a bunch of other people on my team who are amazing. And then it became way more of like a group effort making these videos than just me. And like, were you doing all the editing or it was, you had a film or editor before? I was, I wasn't editing at this point. I stopped editing when I was around like 2 million subscribers. I stopped editing. Got it. how did you know like how to hire these people and what to pay them because like how to even have a company yeah you're pretty young at this time i mean he's definitely just asking like what other people are paying and then i mean it was like a trap i was like okay we got to get another pa he's like oh my boy would be down so then we hired his boy and then like the other person was a childhood friend so it was just like people i knew i was like you wanted to come work for me and then over time you learned like to it's really just talking to people like friends of friends or like do you know anyone who would want to do this i think that's how we got like pretty much everyone in the early days was just friends of friends was there a moment where you know okay you've brought on a team and now you're thinking beyond videos like you're thinking merch you're thinking events you're you're really trying to expand what the universe is yes i always had merch um since like 2016 and then it wasn't like i was doing it with another company called ball is life and they were great um but it was like i didn't own the merch company it was kind of just working for them.

42:45My merch was on their merch site. So then, yeah, building the team, I was like, okay, I want to make the basketball clothes bucket squad. My own thing. So that was like, we stopped working with them and then made our own company for that. So it's definitely thinking of like, okay, this is becoming a business and trying to learn like, because I used to not think anything business. Like all my thought was like, what video I'm making today? But now definitely like as you get a team and you're managing all these employees and it gets bigger, it's like, okay, it has to be a business now. This is a business.

43:14Yeah, that's a funny moment because there is a time where you're just like making videos, you're receiving, I mean, I assume primarily AdSense revenue early on. Or did you have brand deals? I had brand deals as well, but ad revenue is always like 80%. Who was brokering the brand deals at the time? Were you signed? Yeah, I was signed. I was with Long Haul Management. I don't know. They do a lot of the basketball creators. Okay, got it. They're like a sport, mainly sports. I think they also do MatPat. Oh, okay. It's interesting. MatPat and the basketball creators. Oh, interesting. Yeah. I was with them for a while.

43:46It's interesting because like all of that happens with basically no overhead, right? Like you're, it's just you and your friend who's filming. So like your profit margin is just like insane at that era. Oh yeah, 95 % profit margin. Exactly. It's completely insane. So you don't really have to think. And then as you get into hiring people, all of a sudden your overhead is heavy. It's like, wait, hold on. I'm paying like five people every month. So now this is a business. and you also have editors which means um i don't know if you felt this but you're like now i have to make videos so they have something to do yeah it's definitely a shift yeah it's like funny shift yeah it's like now i'm like responsible for all these people's like livelihood if i stop uploading or just went away so it definitely adds a layer of pressure it's definitely funny because it's like i feel like it's such a shocking moment for me was like learning oh like most big companies they have like 10 % margins, if that.

44:43A lot of them are losing money. And then I'm like, oh my God, I got about this like 95 % profit margin for all these years. And now it's nowhere near that. Now I'm like more like a real company's profit margin. Yeah, it's weird because it's like, there's such a beauty to that simplicity. And then there's this desire for growth. Like, where do you think your desire for expansion and growth came? Because there's a world where you could just kind of continue with a pretty small team, you know, and just make videos. I really, really wanted to hit 10 million subscribers. Like, so bad. So then I was like, all these people have 10 million.

45:15They all have teams. So I was like, I got to level up, adapt, get a team. So it was really like wanting to hit that milestone was like the reason. What would you say now is one of the biggest struggles you have in terms of like where you're at as a creator? Is it, you know, having a big team? Is it getting access to the right people, the right NBA players to be in your videos? like what is it now that you feel like man if I could just unlock that I feel like the thing that's been the biggest struggle for me for the last year and a half is like like having the right focus in terms of like I feel like I have so many different things going on that I'm not focusing enough and I even had a thought earlier this year like oh should I start another company or like a subscription service but and then I came to the conclusion like no I can't start out my focus anymore like it's already too thin so I think just feeling like I have enough time for each of the different things I'm working on has been the biggest struggle.

46:13Figuring out the balance between all those things. A bit of it is opportunity overload, actually. There's a lot of opportunity in front of you. And it's being able to filter out and focus. Exactly. I think that's been the hardest thing, which is a blessing to have. It's a good problem to have, but it is a problem. It's pretty common amongst creators because as you grow, you also see your friends doing all this other stuff, right? Like you see people launching companies alongside their YouTube channels or expanding to multiple channels, right? Like I'd have to imagine as you, did you hit 10 million before you launched your other channels or did you launch your other channels right as you started?

46:47So I had a one other channel, but I had that since like when I started my main channel in like 2014. Which was which one? Jester is my main channel. And then my second channel is called JSR. Okay. Now it's Jester Reacts. But I had that channel like, cause I would do playthroughs of like random, cause I, random games are just like horror. games and stuff that wasn't sports related. Yeah. So I would just put, throw that on there. What's the current landscape of like how much content you put out in a month across what channels? Right now, the goal for this year is to put out like two to four long form videos on my main channel.

47:19A month? A month. Okay. Try to do two shorts a week, maybe more if I can. And then 10 videos a month on the React channel. 10 videos a month on React. That was a step. We were originally going to do 20 a month. 20 a month? But we decided to scale back after the spot or something because everyone was like longer videos and our videos were like eight to 10 minutes. Yeah, I mean, I think that is the current, you know, era of YouTube is longer form content, which is interesting. Like I think we talked about it at Spot or something. It was like 20 to 40 minutes is like the sweet spot, right? Exactly.

47:55But I imagine your Reacts channel is probably the profit leader of your company. In terms of ad revenue, yeah. But it doesn't get anywhere near the sponsor deals of the main channel, but it does. It makes more an ad revenue because it just upload more. Got it. And so today with 18 million subs, like what does the company look like? Cause you also recently hired a president. I did. Which is a lot. Shout out to my boy Zach. Yeah, Zach. He's awesome. But that's like, that's like, I don't know how else to say this, but that's like a real adult employee. Oh yeah, he's the oldest employee probably. Yeah, but Zach's like a president who comes from, I think he was at Spotify beforehand, right?

48:36Like that's like a real. Yeah, he's definitely. I don't know how else to put that, but like that's like a grown up hire. You hired a president of your company. What does that even mean? It's gone from like the Jesser YouTube channel to Jesser Industries. Yeah. What does that even mean? And why did you get to a point where you're like, you know what? We need a president. Bustin' with the Boys is here to let you know that every college football Saturday, FanDuel's dropping profit boosts that can turn wins into bigger wins. Sounds like we should rename Saturday Booster Day. Nice. 21 plus and present in select states.

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49:55Yeah, so I felt like we got to like zero to 10 million as a company. But to get to 10 million to 100 million, I was like, I need someone who's very experienced in the business world. Is that revenue or subscribers? I would just say like company, or yeah, revenue, company value. Okay, got it. Like zero to 10 million, you felt like you could do that yourself. But 10 million to 100 million, it's like, yeah exactly so it's just like business opportunities like outside of them and then maximizing it is kind of like his goal and then also he's helping a lot with the content so it's like now we're like trying to pitch different show ideas with like a lot of nba players have production companies so like okay how do i pitch them an idea so we're doing he's helping with stuff like that and then just different bigger projects but i really wanted to have someone who it just was like at that level like who has been in the game and like just knows big companies or whatever and just like i want to like i want to grow the company as much as possible so does that take some weight off of you to hire a president like or were there responsibilities that you had that now you get to share with him or that he yeah i think it definitely takes a weight off i mean what he's capable of doing i'm not capable of doing like he's like great at networking and just knows like business sense or like how we should structure our org chart like i don't know i never went to business school i'm just guessing with everything yeah also like you got your friends coming to you if maybe they want to raise or they want to change in their their comp or like they're like hey jessar do we have health insurance it's like there's there's all these things that happen when you become a real company yeah we just got health insurance you got a grown-up and now you got health insurance we got benefits so if you want to work at bucket squad we have benefits it's rare in the creator space it is rare it's rare because like all of us just fell into this and we're like i don't know we don't know what that is but I have it.

51:46That's great. I think though, like, you know, it's funny because you have that conversation of like, okay, yeah, zero to 10 million and then 10 million to a hundred million. But I actually think in your situation, there's this really interesting reality that in, in our world, like the product that you have is access to whatever your audience is. And based on what that audience is or who that audience is, is the potential value that your company can get to, right? And because your audience is young sports fans, I think the potential value is so high because you're solving a problem for an industry that has a ton of money and needs to solve that problem, right?

52:25Like the NBA and the NFL, they need younger fans. Yeah, their problem is definitely, because Gen Z is smaller generation than the generation before, and they watch less of sports. And it's like, that's my audience. It's like those kids. So not only do you have a captive sports audience, a sports audience also is willing to spend money, right? Like when you grow up playing sports, your parents will buy you equipment. More like if you play basketball, you buy shoes, you buy jersey, you'll buy. So like you have a crop of people where the financial decision maker is the kid, but the financier is the parents, which is a great scenario.

53:02and then you also have this captive audience that these people who have billions of dollars, meaning the NBA and the NFL, they're trying to access your audience. So you are in this sweet spot where I believe like your opportunity is immense right now. Yeah, there's a lot of opportunity in this world. I think it's a bit of accessing your audience, but also your knowledge and understanding of how you even acquire that audience, right? Because there's obviously something that they're not doing that you are doing. What do you think it is about what you do that does actually attract that young sports fan that maybe the NBA hasn't done to date?

53:41I think my content for those kids is just so much more relatable. And kids don't really watch full games anymore. They like highlights. They like the fast-paced stuff. And one, the YouTube content is just faster-paced. And then, for example, I'm just naturally hyped to see these players like LeBron. I'm like, oh my god, that's LeBron. but then if you watch any video it's like just an interview with LeBron just asking him questions but then it's like it's just so much more relatable and it's like I've been blessed enough a lot of the videos are like what kids would dream to do like go to three NBA games that's like a dream like I've had parents come up to me and be like oh my son maybe watch your videos and like we went to three NBA games in like 30 hours we've been flying everywhere and like wow the NBA should make like a they really want to do it they do?

54:23they're just like the video they want to do what you've done I was going to say if the NBA partnered with an airline and did a package. We'll get you to three games in a weekend. 250 people in a commercial airplane could pay some high price to go to three. I bet you there'd be a ton of parents out there. The NBA's been great too. They work with me so much. They've been such a blessing. So much of the content I'm able to do is because of them and the relationship there. I think they definitely see it more than a lot of the other sports leagues. Trying to have creators do things and work with creators.

54:57like as much as possible, every big event, they're always bringing out creators. So they're, they definitely really are getting it. Yeah. I think the NBA, uh, was quicker to understand social than, than anyone else. But I do want to just go back to something you said that I think is really important is that you bring the, um, childlike wonder back to sports where it's like LeBron James is a superhero. So like when you see him, it's exciting, right? And I think, I think I understand what you're saying that it becomes very normalized when you're watching a game, no one's excited to see LeBron. They're just like, yeah, LeBron's there.

55:29And he does something amazing. And yeah, the commentators... Especially the people who work for the networks. They're like, this is part of my job. I see LeBron every day. Let's ask him a question. Okay, cool. But you are that professional fan. I'm a professional fan. We get to live through you and that experience. Oh my gosh, yeah. It is crazy to see LeBron. So I want to bring up, you talked about formats that work, you know, and like repeating those formats and then experimenting. A format that really like captured my attention on your channel was this like secret NBA player, meaning like guess the secret NBA player where essentially there's a group of people, they're all wearing masks.

56:10One of them is an NBA player. And then the judges, which is you, your buddies, and eventually Giannis and like NBA players, which is crazy, are guessing which one the NBA player is. That is a fantastic format. Yeah, shout out to Jubilee, bro. That's Jubilee? Jubilee inspired. Jubilee inspired, yeah. I was just with Jason, the CEO of Jubilee yesterday. Yeah, they're awesome. They're awesome. So that was inspired by Jubilee. Oh, yeah, definitely. That's smart. So how did that episode with Giannis specifically come together? So getting Giannis in the video was definitely years in the making. Because I did a video with him at VidCon once, like way back in the day.

56:48He came to VidCon? Nike had a booth, a basketball court, and he taught me how to Eurostep. So I met him there, and then I played in the celebrity game and then him, Thanasis, Alex they were all the coaches for the celebrity game and then Alex was getting more into YouTube, his younger brother and we had collabs and then I was always like oh we gotta get Giannis in a video and then just pitched him an idea and then Alex was just like yo, Alex and Giannis were like yo we can do it on this date and at first I wanted to do a real life basketball video but he couldn't do real life basketball at the time so I was like I had like a week to prepare guests, the secret NBA player.

57:24And I didn't know who was going to be the secret NBA player. So you had Giannis booked. I had Giannis booked, but no one else booked. But no NBA player. Yeah. Okay, got it. So then I was just struggling. I messaged like hundreds of players on Instagram, like just calling people's agents and stuff like, please. And it was so hard to find someone. But finally I got an NBA player. Wow. So you didn't like hit up the NBA to be like, hey. Because I guess if it's an official NBA collab, it'd be more complex. Yeah, a lot more complex. Got it. But it was crazy. Like he literally came all the way down to my warehouse, which is not close to LA.

57:58It was super cool. He was super nice. I love him. He's goaded. Do you see that format? Is that like a big format for you this year? Or when do you abandon a format? When are you like, we've done that enough? I guess when it stops banging. When it stops doing well. Like I want to do more of those. It's just really hard to coordinate those. so like I just locked in a judge for one so I'm like okay now I need to find a secret NBA player I want to do guess the secret NFL player maybe just like guess the secret pro athlete and then have it could be any sport but yeah I definitely want to do more of that format it's just there's a lot of formats on my channel that do super super well but require like I guess like celebrity guest talent and then those videos it's like I want to do more of them but it's I'm trying to be better at networking and figure it out, but it is hard, especially like it's during the NBA season.

58:49Sure. Okay. So like everyone's kind of like booked off. Is there any structure around how you come up with ideas? You know, you say that's Jubilee inspired, but is there like a Monday meeting where you're pitching ideas and people bring that to the table or is that just something in your head? Oh, that'd be cool. Yeah. So the team we have, we have just like a ideas meeting and then everyone will just come with like two ideas fleshed out and a ton of great ideas have come from my team that I never came up with. We don't do that every week, but we try to do that more often now. And then the great ideas will come from that.

59:21And then I'll always just be thinking of ideas all the time. And then it's just a mix of the two for ideas. When Zach came in and you have a president now, did he look at your operation and a week in the life at Bucket Squad? And did he make changes of like, now we're going to operate like this? No, not really. he was like okay coming into this business like the content side of it is doing extremely well like I'm going to try not to touch that at all just like let you guys do what you do like he's not really involved in production besides like helping collab getting collabs so he kind of just like whatever's working I don't need to touch this you guys are making like 20 what like 25 28 videos a month with you include shorts with shorts and reacts so it's kind of just like you guys do that like you have enough to focus on I mean, that's enough to focus on for a team.

1:00:14And how big is the content team? So on the main channel, it's probably, let me think, like seven people in person and then like four editors, four or five editors. Wow. So maybe like 12. Just for the main channel? Mm-hmm. Wow. Yeah. It's a lot of people. That's a lot of people. Yeah. And are you managing those people or do you have producers that manage? Oh, no, we have other people that manage people. Got it. Yeah, wow, that's crazy. I'm curious. You said you make two shorts a week. What's the case for shorts? I feel like we're sort of fighting to convince ourselves to prioritize shorts a little bit here.

1:00:54What do they do for you? How do they fit in? Well, for me, shorts are just, like I would have never been a 10 million subscribers, 18 million subscribers without shorts. Shorts carried my channel past 10 million subscribers. So for me, that's why I wanted to do it because I was like, okay, I want to get to the 10 million mark like a lot of subscribers and it's funny because like I feel like I've heard on y 'all's podcast is a lot of creators feel like the subscriber numbers of vanity metric or whatever but it's like brands don't feel that way so that's why I feel like it's still valuable but I mean it's really just like do you want to get more subscribers then you should do shorts and now it's interesting like seeing everyone go into dubbing is like the next phase and it's like if I could dub my shorts then people will have people see shorts way more than videos like they get so much more views so it's like If I could do shorts in other languages now, then people will see me in that language, then see the long form.

1:01:43So I guess if you're dubbing, that could be a case of going hard on shorts. So once you do go into the other language, there's a way for people to find you easier is a way to look at it. But I mean, I struggle with it too because I was posting like five shorts a week last year in Q4. But now I'm going down to two. What makes a viral short? Or like for you specifically, do you have like, Because I watched the one where you, we were talking about it this morning, where you throw the football over the house. That's funny. Yeah, I think definitely one thing that makes them go viral is if you don't have any speaking in it and it's like physical comedy because then all the languages, because those videos, like my shorts that have the most views, those over the house football throws, I have so many views from India.

1:02:28Really? Yeah. Maybe that's why I like it. It's just something in my DNA that makes me like that short. They're language agnostic. They don't even need dumbing. I mean, it's why Kaby Lame is so popular. I mean, blowing up the basketball is another great one. It's a great short, right? It's just like, oh, yeah, you can turn the sound off, and I'm just going to watch until you blow this basketball up. I feel like most of my viral shorts, it starts with a question, and then the video is just answering that question. And people just want to know the answer. It can be the dumbest stuff, too. It can be like, how many layers of tape does it take to stop a human?

1:02:58It is just one layer, two layers, five layers. It always ends with someone just getting hurt. Yeah, it is relatively simple. I think that the interesting thing is probably, you know, when I think about, I'm curious your perspective on the future of sports entertainment. Like, where does it go? And is it actually presently a problem, you know, that young kids aren't watching full games? If so, what happens next? Like, what happens to the way we watch sports? Is it, is it going to be like five different streams where I can hear you and your buddies doing the commentary for a game? Is it actually, everyone's going to watch it in shorter bits?

1:03:39Cause it feels like, again, like the NBA, the NFL, a lot of people are trying to solve this problem of like, how do we get people to watch these games? Like our full games still going to be highly coveted or. I think the full games will always be there, but to your point, how it's like, oh, you could watch the game while I'm doing it, how Dude Perfect does theirs. And if you haven't seen that Dude Perfect, for those watching, you can watch the NFL game while they're doing challenges on Amazon, I think it is. Thursday Night Football, yeah. And then they have the Nickelodeon version for the kids.

1:04:11And I think they're just going to keep doing alternate methods of watching the game. Even now, Kevin Hart's doing one for NBA. Oh, really? Where he has a separate stream. But it's on TV. It's like a whole channel. that's just an alt stream of him interesting so that will definitely continue to be a thing I think people will just the younger generation will consume on social apps more than TV so that's like TV's just struggling but they're still consuming it but just not in those long sessions more like like NBA cutdowns those will get a million views a day like all the time every day of just the highlights of games I'm sure the challenge though for the NBA there is that that's not as monetizable right because like the live game is where big ticket advertising gets sold because it's it's eventized it's like everyone's eyeballs are on this live game it's uh you need more super bowls right like highlights of the super bowl are not as monetizable as the super yeah and i think nba is trying like you see the in-season tournament that used to be not a thing that's like a big thing to sell advertising to and like people want to see who's going to win that championship do the games need to be shorter no i don't think so i don't think you can mess with the integrity of the sport with it is that i don't find that NBA games specifically are that long.

1:05:19At the end of the games, when you go, they're over before you know it. NFL games are pretty long. They're long. Do you think those need to be shorter? Because I'm also a purist. When I watch sports, I grew up on watching sports. I want to keep them as is. But I also look at this next generation that would prefer to watch Jesser than a full NBA game. How does the NBA adjust to that? I feel like you can never adjust with that type of things, the nature of the sport. it has to be what it is. Also for records and everything, and I don't think they would ever touch that, but I think it is a real challenge.

1:05:51It is for the big, giant sports leagues. They're really trying to figure it out. But they do a great job of posting content on social. They all are like the NFL and Taylor Swift. They're attacking that. They're doing a great job. What a moment for the NFL. That's like... They brought up Taylor Swift so much. If we find out in three years that that was actually a brand deal. Oh my God. They're like the NFL pitch and they were like, listen, Taylor, you're going to date one of the stars that's going to make it to the Super Bowl. Like that's like, the storyline is unbelievable, but like the NFL can't bank on this storyline year after year unless they start, you know, crafting these.

1:06:32Crafting these. I think the leagues are doing the best they can. Like they're, like NFL's got, or I don't even know if it's the NFL or Amazon. I guess it would be Amazon more than the NFL, like doing the do perfect stream or like, I think they are trying their best to figure it out, but it is hard to get people to watch full games. I think what I like about NFL, because I just got into NFL this year, it's like I like that all the games are on Sunday, so I got red zone. It's like constantly the best moment of each game. Like I love watching NFL red zone, but the full games, unless it's like my team, I'm not as, or it's like playoffs, I'll watch all the full games, but it's harder.

1:07:04But you know, I just watched the Pro Bowl weekend, the skills competition for the NFL, and it's like, it's interesting, but some of it is just continuously too complex. Like what you just said about shorts being like, it's a really simple question. And when you look at like destroying with one-on-ones, that's like he boiled something down to a really simple form. This guy is going to guard this guy. One of them is going to win. And then it repeats over and over, right? So there's like, it's basically he's introducing a question. Two guys line up, who's going to win? You got to watch, right? And so I think that the NBA, the NFL, as they look at like ancillary content, shoulder programming, how to get new viewers.

1:07:42Like everything you've said in this conversation is something that programming people or people at those leagues should be thinking about. Okay, we have to feed our core fans, right? And we have to attract new viewers. Yeah. Right. It's the exact same thing, right? Like it's, it's, we're all in the same business. We're all in the business of capturing audience. And I feel like they, they have a lot to learn from people like yourself and D. I think the biggest competitive advantage for creators is that we can change the format. It's like you can't change the length of an NBA game or an NFL game.

1:08:16You can't change the rules. But D has no problem getting people together and doing a one-on-one competition to win money. Right? Like we have the option to make all of these mini games that can be experiments that will reach those new audiences. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? Yeah. It's definitely interesting. I'm curious when you think about like from 10 million to 100 million, what does it take to get there for your company? Is it building out products? Is it building brands? What comes alongside the media? I feel like it will never be off ad revenue getting to that point. So it has to be those different things.

1:08:51So it's like, for me, hopefully it's like trying to get Bucket Squad apparel as integrated into the basketball community. It's just like, yo, that's a dope basketball brand, not that's Jester's merch or anything. So like trying to build that up is like the main thing is like building as a legit brand. Like our products are amazing. Just doing that. And then, yeah, other products, like we're doing a hoop. I was telling you about, we're doing a mini hoop in Walmart and that one's like Jesser branded. Oh, so that's going into Walmart. In Walmart. Oh, wow. Cool, man. Let's go. That's cool. That's awesome.

1:09:20I mean, that's crazy. When is that happening? Mid-April. Oh, soon. Yeah. So that will be like Jesser branded. Oh, yeah. You guys can have one. You got to put it up there. Yeah. So you have a Jesser branded mini hoop. That's cool. in all Walmarts? It's, I think like half because a lot of the Walmarts are like grocery stores. Okay. Yeah. But, so I have to do well with that product. I'm like, I have to sell this out because if I can sell it out, I can eat multiple products. Yeah. You have to send us one. Yeah. Oh, 100%. That's cool. Can you talk about the shoes or no? Oh, Bugsquat shoes? Yeah. Yeah, I can talk about them.

1:09:57Because that, like, I saw those and I was like, oh, those are cool. And that's hard. like basketball and shoes so they were not they were not basketball shoes I will say that they were trainers and then for that a company approached me soul savvy and was like hey would you want to do your own shoe and I was like of course I want to do my own shoe doesn't want to do their own shoe and then they made a shoe for another creator before that too but yeah and then did the shoe got to like pick out all the materials all the little details to make it special to me and then that was just super cool because it's like all my idols have shoes yeah of course that I look up to so I was like I got my own shoe Do you see that as becoming like a big part of what Bucket Squad does?

1:10:36Shoes? I feel like in the next like year or two, probably not. Because it's like a one time we just wanted to do it. But I would love to offer basketball shoes one day. And my dream would be like, oh, I'm Bucket Squad sponsors some NBA players and they're wearing the Bucket Squad shoes in games. But I feel like that's definitely like years down the line. Because it's like starting a new basketball shoe brand. It's okay. It's like my competitors. Nike, Adidas. But you're looking right now, like, again, we're talking about how sports entertainment reaches a younger audience. Mr. Beast is sponsor of the Charlotte Hornets.

1:11:09That is true. With Feastables. But it's the Beast logo on their jersey, right? Yeah. Which is wild. And then Prime is now the official drink of the Lakers. Right? And I think there's like, there's definitely a lot of incentive for the league and the teams to partner with creators because it comes with added marketing. So you never know. Hopefully. Like, like that's the dream. That would definitely be the dream. Again, you're in a really good spot for that to happen. So, um, yeah, it's interesting that apparel is, is a big piece of that. I forgot to ask this to you, but I was curious if you remember your first brand deal and like what that experience was like.

1:11:46I do. What was your first brand deal? So I forget the name of an app, but it was a basketball app. Right. And they promised me a collab with Andrew Wiggins for it. And then like, they, they were like, it was the day to shoot. And they were coming to my house for it. And they were like, oh, actually, Andrew Wiggins couldn't show up. So I still had to do this ad. And the whole video was like a skit ad for the company. Oh, the entire video. And I got paid like absolutely nothing. I was like, oh, my God, I get to make a video with an NBA player. Like, well, this is going to be the best thing ever.

1:12:16And then, yeah, they scammed me pretty much because Andrew Wiggins was never there. That's a bad bait. So it was a bad first experience on brand deals. Oh, interesting. And now, are you building your own internal sales team? or do you work, you still work with external representation? Yeah, external representation. I feel like that's another level. I don't know if I'm there yet. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. I've been thinking about it quite a bit as like, you know, traditional representation is talent representation or even like, I'm sure your dad had representation as a producer, right? Yeah.

1:12:49Where it's like, here's a single person that we represent to go do a craft. But what's interesting is we're actually building companies. So now we have representation that represents our whole company kind of right what's interesting because like like i work with night right and then they all the brand deals anything youtube related that's all them but then like i'm like apparel is like my thing for sure yeah so it's like it's like you have too much overhead yeah to to deal with like you you can't really pay a high percentage to a representation when like you get a brand deal let's say you get a hundred k brand deal right you have you named 15 people who work on your main channel.

1:13:29So you got to pay their salaries too. Yeah. So like you're also paying the representation a commission, but they're taking commission off the top. So now you have, you know, 85 to spend on everything. And you have so much, you start to get so much expense that that's where I get curious if creators are starting to think about that. Now I would say like, I think no matter what, you're paying a high fee for someone to help you do sales. But I've just been fascinated by that thought of like how partnerships come together in the future of this, because we're not just talent getting placed into a movie or getting placed into a thing.

1:14:04We're like - Yeah, it's a whole company. It's a whole company. It's not like, yeah, it's interesting. It is very interesting. Yeah. Do you have a dream collaboration in mind that if you were able to get that collaboration with a certain format, a certain concept, it would be your most watched video? Yes. LeBron James. LeBron? If I got a LeBron collab, no one has ever done a LeBron James collab YouTube video. that would be the most legendary thing I ever do, I think. There is a photo of you playing a carnival game with him. But you're down on the edge. You've seen that? Yeah. Yeah, the story behind that, for Space Jam, they rented out the entire park.

1:14:42Was it Universal? Yeah, Universal. And then that was a crazy night because just so many celebrities were there. It was ridiculous. But LeBron, I saw him walking over to the games, and I rushed to that corner seat because I was like, if I win I'm making a video like I beat LeBron James 1 in this game or something but then neither of us won what do you think you would make if LeBron's like hey man I got an afternoon I'll come over if I could just do like a shooting challenge with him or it doesn't even have to be crazy it could literally just be like a shooting competition I feel like one on one oh yeah one on one would be super fun one on one would be the best video ever yeah and some level of like high stakes one on one would be interesting you know like yeah yeah Yeah, you played in this Creator Cup, right?

1:15:25Which is the NBA. Is it an NBA-sponsored thing? Yes, so for the NBA's in-season tournament that they just did this year, they wanted to test a creator match. So it was on the NBA's court. They put it together, and we all had NBA jerseys on. It was just straight creators. They had a celebrity game type where there's challenges in the game and different fun things like that. But got to play in that. That was really cool. Do you think the NBA should continue doing stuff like that? Like, is that... Yeah, I think they definitely should. And I think they could just make it a way bigger event because the celebrity game is great.

1:15:56And at in-season tournament, why not add on a creator version of that and get the biggest creators in the world and sell it out? The Sidemen football charity match is something to look at. Would you ever plan that, by the way? Oh, bro, I want to play it. I want to play it. Let me know. I'm ready. Because you're a soccer guy. Yeah, I love soccer. You could ball in that. Oh, yeah, that's my goal. I was literally planning, once they get closer to the announce, I've been practicing my juggling. So I'm going to do a video. If anyone from the Sidemen is watching. Yes, I'm going to do a video where I'm just juggling the ball the whole time.

1:16:30And I'm like, I've been playing soccer my whole life. You guys keep losing. The YouTube All-Star team is always trash. Maybe people actually play soccer. Or I'll probably call it football so they don't get offended. But that's crazy. They're packing out stadiums. I feel like there's a basketball version of that in the U.S. A thousand percent. The A's family did it at Staples Center. They sold the whole thing out. That's true. Back in the day. That's true. Like I would love to do that. And that's something I've always wanted to do is host my own creator match and make it a really big thing. And it's just a lot to put on.

1:17:02But it's on the bucket list for sure. There's one business that I – like if I can pitch you a business, and I'm curious if you've thought about this, like basketball camp. Have you thought about that? I have thought about that. And what are the like – what's stopping you from doing it or what's – or is it something that you want to do? I'm going to do a little, like, a clinic later in this year with the Knicks. So we're going to test that out, see how that does. But it's just, like, figuring out, like, the logistics of that. Like, probably it's a partner with someone who does camps. Yeah, who does camps.

1:17:31But it's definitely been on, like, the company ideas list. It's been, like, basketball camps for sure. You're definitely, like, the internet's camp counselor when it comes to basketball. Yeah. And if there's, like, you know, content side of that. I think, like, the thing that's interesting about someone like you is that the kids would come to basketball camp, obviously, to play basketball. but if there's an element of it too where they come home with like a cool video or learn more about how to make their own basketball videos if you add like a content element to that now you're speaking to like kids into basketball and every kid who's into youtube and social media like that they get to play some of the games that you play and like take part in those it's more about fun than it is necessarily about like being the best basketball player one idea i always wanted to do was like top golf like a basketball version of top golf i thought that would be so fun where so you got the bar food and then it's like the hoop but it's like a bowling alley so all the balls come back to you and you could do like three point all different challenges we do in the videos like money ball and all that and like hoops at varying distances yeah like maybe the hoop backs up and like the rim can change sizes and it's just absolutely crazy I feel like that's a video you should make that would be sick too like start with a video like make the prototype do a video but then it's like oh my god now I have to figure out restaurant games business I don't know where to start these things sound amazing I'm like okay how would I actually do this is that a business I really want to be in what's the pie chart of the business right now is it still primarily advertising and brand deals or is merchandise and like bucket squad starting to become a bigger portion of it yeah that's definitely becoming a bigger portion I would say like I mean I could be totally wrong but maybe like ad revenues like 50 % and brand deals is like 30 % and then the apparel is like 20 % maybe something like that okay yeah i would say how it looks did that equal 100 i wasn't i think so yeah yeah i hope so oh yeah i did it did yes 50 30 20 yes yeah yeah yep we'll cut that part out yeah what advice do you have for someone who's just starting out on youtube right now i would say my number one advice if you're just starting out is literally just have like fun with it do make videos with your homies because it's more fun to make videos with your friends and then do it for that reason and then event like you got to fall in love with it because i see so many people start and they're starting off with these videos that are like very trends they're just like trying trends they're just doing it really bad and it's like some of these can't even be fun to film yeah so i would say just like literally just have fun with it is the number one thing and then don't make anything you're not having fun with because that is just you're gonna quit so i think that's the most important thing that's good advice if you could pitch the NBA or NFL like a YouTube series that they should be doing?

1:20:18Oh, that they should be doing? Yeah, what do you think it would be? Like if the leagues are watching, like how should they change up their YouTube strategy? Oh, on YouTube? Yeah. Or maybe it's on TV. Like what should they be doing differently from a media and content perspective? Oh, wow. That's a good question. I feel like if you think back to COVID, right? The bubble. Yeah. All the players started vlogging on their own. like JaVale McGee was doing a vlog and the content coming out of the bubble was so amazing. It's just hard because it's like the NBA, can they tell players to do that? It's kind of like the players have to want to do it but as the generations get younger and younger I think more and more players you'll see are live streaming on Twitch or making YouTube videos like that so it's finding out just any ways they can to empower the players to make the content because at the end of the day people watch for the players especially NBA is so player driven Like an athlete agency for YouTube channels where like athletes can come to you to like learn how to do YouTube?

1:21:19No, I probably would never do that. Got it. Does anything like that exist? There's agencies out there that manage social media for strictly like athletes. I know there's a lot of those that help out with that that I've seen over the years. But I mean, if someone asked me, I might help them. But I feel like that would be – that's just like another – that was the focus. I know, I know. on the focus. I'm like pitching you all these things, but this is like, yeah, I think the natural state of a creator is like, you're a creator. You want to create things. And then like, once you find the thing that works, it's almost like overwhelming to just be like, I need to just feed this thing.

1:21:53So my mind always goes. I feel like if I were the NBA or the NFL, I would look at what's happened with new heights with Jason and Travis Kelsey and look at a player podcast and think, okay, how can we help players make that possible? Help put them on the right path? I think right now, the NFL and the NBA YouTube channels are just flooded with highlights and content. And maybe they have to be, but I definitely think they can start helping to get athletes started up with new channels that maybe they're partnered into. Yeah, it doesn't have to be, let's say the NBA we're talking about, it doesn't have to be their socials.

1:22:33They can be their player socialists. It all goes to the NBA at the end of the day. Yeah, I think you think about what we did at Spotter Summit. Like if the NBA hosted a summit where they brought like a bunch of content creators and a bunch of athletes who are interested together to like brainstorm for a weekend or something. And just like we present some stuff to them around like, how do you do this? And what are you interested? Are you interested in podcasting? Are you interested in like making short form? Are you interested in like long form? because it's probably overwhelming for an athlete to be like, all right, I got a buddy who films.

1:23:05Maybe he could film me. I don't know. You know, it's like, is that how it works? I think it's tough too. It's like a lot of them, like some of the top players don't even have Instagrams and stuff. It's like, what the heck? Like they just don't care at all. And then it's like, I feel like a lot of players have grown to hate the media too. Sure. So that's also a tough thing. So it definitely would have to be the players that want to do it. The younger players at least. So it's like a hard question. They may not even have the opportunity, to your point though to learn what they would like. Right?

1:23:33Like there's no space or time in their schedule I'm sure to like meet with people like you and be like what formats are out there? Right? What could be sustainable for me that I would like to do whether I'm playing in the NBA or after I'm done? I'm pitching it right now to the NBA. Give us a call. NBA Times Creator Summit. I saw that the NFL right they did the quarterbacks one where they followed the quarterbacks and now they're doing that for NBA. Oh they are? That's cool. I'm pretty sure. Oh cool. I love sports docs like that. Those are my favorite. Like the Jordan doc. Oh my God. Sports media doesn't get better than like all the top players.

1:24:05Yeah. But the amazing thing is just back to your point of like question answer, like sports just starts with a question. Like a game just starts with a question. Who's going to win? Exactly. And then you build stakes on top of that. Well, if they win, then this happens. If they win, then this happens. And like, and then this player, you know, has this narrative and this player has this. So it's like the best packaging. Yeah. Sports is always a story. Every game is a story. I love it. Yeah. I love it so much. Well, cool, man. Where do you think you're going to be at the end of this year, subscriber-wise, if you're still kind of pushing on that?

1:24:35Well, I'm slowing down on shorts uploads. So if we hit 25 million, I'd be over the moon. That would be insane. I mean, that's crazy. So that would be the goal. And what's the Reacts channel right now? I think we're at like 2.4 million. Do you see yourself going hard at Reacts the whole year? Or are you starting to do 10? I'm just trying to consistently do 10. Just 10 a month. Every month, yeah. Just think that for the whole year. That is so many. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, cool, man. That's awesome. Hey, y 'all are the best. Dude, thank you so much for taking the time. I'm excited to see what's next.

1:25:05I really am very intrigued by the business you're building and the opportunity in sports. I want to come check out your space, too. Yeah, I'd love to come check out. Yeah, you have a warehouse that's like, what is it, 10 ,000 square feet? 10 ,000 square feet. That's crazy. It's sick. And you film out of there. Yeah, we're there like five days a week. We got to come check out. Yeah, 100%. It's like an hour and a half, maybe, from LA. Do you rent it or did you buy that warehouse? I rent it. You rent it. Okay. That'd be sick one day. I got to get better at basketball. Because if we get called up to like a Crater Cup, I just, I got to get better.

1:25:34I just got to get on the court, man. I just got to make a squat. You know, I'm just trying to. Bench former. I didn't even break a sweat, you know. I'm just trying to get on the court. Yeah. Cool, man. Well, thanks. Thanks, dude. All right. See ya.

1:25:56See ya.