CANNES DAY 3: The Art of Standing Out: Pablo Rochat, Sir John Hegarty & E.L.F Beauty

0:01Samir Chaudry:Good morning, everybody. Welcome back to the Colin and Samir Show. We're here again, day three of Can Lions at the LinkedIn Lounge hosting our daily show. Today, we have an exciting episode, a lot of guests. A lot of guests today. We're going to be joined by directors. We're going to be joined by Kory Marchisotto, who's the president of Elf Beauty and Stacey Martinet from Adobe. We're going to be talking about how to stand out as a brand. As well as a legend of advertising, Sir John Hegarty. Absolutely. All right. So first, let's talk about what we saw yesterday on social. I feel like it's interesting being here at Cannes, being hyper aware of advertising.

0:37And it feels like everything you see has to be intentional. Maybe that's just because we're here.

0:41Samir Chaudry:It's just because we're here in the south of France and everyone's talking about it. But probably the thing that was the loudest that I saw yesterday on social was Meta launching the new glasses with Kylie Jenner. Yeah. I mean, that was extremely loud. I think there are few true billboards left in this world, and Kylie Jenner is one of those billboards. That's an interesting take. That doesn't mean that it is easy. You still need creative. I think her posting an Instagram carousel that's pretty lo-fi is the right creative for the meta glasses. Yeah, so let's explain this. So obviously wearables have been a conversation for a really long time.

1:20Samir Chaudry:We've had both Zuckerberg on the show talk about wearables, Evan Spiegel on the show to talk about wearables. And over the past week, the conversation around social has been around Snapchat launching their new spectacles, which are really big, right? And, like, the joke of the Internet was these specs are just, like, very big on Evan Spiegel. They prioritize, clearly in the design, it seems to prioritize tech, not necessarily... Aesthetic. Aesthetic. And, granted, these are two very different products. Like, specs are, they do not do what the metas that Kylie Jenner are wearing. They're very different.

1:55Samir Chaudry:Yes. So, to give you kind of, like, the landscape of wearables, because a couple weeks ago we were at Google I.O., Google has a partnership with Warby Parker. Ray-Ban is partnered with Meta. As well as Oakley. As well as Oakley. So, a lot of the tech brands are partnering directly with, you know, historic glasses companies to bring aesthetic to their wearable tech. A lot of people are betting on the concept that glasses will be the new technology that we use, maybe complementary to the iPhone or to the smartphone or eventually replacing the phone. And we just haven't seen glasses that look as good as what I saw meta launch yesterday.

2:36I just think that's happening is they're getting cooler. They're getting cooler. Yeah. I mean, obviously, Google with Warby Parker, they make some great looking frames. They partnered with another company, too. Do you remember the name?

2:47Samir Chaudry:I don't remember the name. But also, it's very cool-looking lenses. Clearly, that prioritized fashion. And now with Meta launching these with Kylie Jenner, again, we've taken a step further into if she posts that photo and doesn't tag Meta, you may not even know that they're smart glasses. And I think that's what we're getting with these products. Yeah. But it felt like a step forward for wearables. And also, I just find it so interesting what you said. There's very few billboards left in the world, and Kylie Jenner is one of them. That's a really interesting take. Whatever she does is very loud.

3:20Samir Chaudry:So a lot of what this episode is about that we end up talking about is like the difference between advertising around the product and advertising with creators and giving people a feeling. There's like all these different forms of storytelling around a product. The feeling of Kylie Jenner is like cool culture, sex appeal. like there's something just about Kylie, but the product themselves, I think are the best looking wearables I've seen. Yeah, I would agree. I would agree. So as we step into this episode, we're going to talk about the principles of advertising. And we're also going to talk about how brands are stepping into being media companies themselves.

4:02Samir Chaudry:Let's start with our first guest. First guest of the day is Pablo Rochot. He's an incredibly creative director, a great friend, just a funny guy. Just understands how you can stand out right now amongst all of the noise. Amongst everything that's uploaded every single day, Pablo is a guy who understands how you stand out, not just as a creator, but as a brand. So let's welcome to the show, Pablo Rashad. All right, good morning, Pablo. Good morning, man. How you doing? Good morning, Colin Samir. You have your sketchbook in front of you. Yes. We were taking a look at this yesterday. First of all, how do you describe yourself?

4:39Myself? Yeah. I feel like I'm a director and creator.

4:45Samir Chaudry:You make a lot of ads, like more traditionally, you make ads. Yes. And I feel like right now I can. There's a lot of creators here in the context of sponsorships. Hey, let me basically make stuff about your product on my social, which is stuff that you do as well. Yes. But you also just direct ads. You directed a campaign for Nike recently, directed a campaign for Gucci. and you have this sketchbook of ideas. Talk to me about just the process of how you approach an ad or any idea. What makes an idea good right now? Yeah. Well, it depends on the brief, but basically you want to make something that people want to watch at a basic level.

5:31And in order for them to watch something, they have to spend more than a couple seconds with it. And, I mean, people are scrolling through stuff content these days it's not like they're waiting and standing in front of something and then walking to another thing and so it's like what really is going to be worth someone's time and i've just been for the past like 15 years just obsessed with what is actually an image someone's going to care about especially if it's an image that traditionally they wouldn't care about like an ad or a video of an with an ad video um i've just always been interested in like how visual language can communicate an idea like the simplest way and also surprise people like basically i just want to entertain people as much as i can and i like the challenge of trying to entertain people while also trying to deliver a message and so i mean i'm lucky enough that kind of my career has uh grown as like social media platforms has grown like instagram it's like a perfect place for me to like freely test ideas um and so this notebook is a place where i just kind of remind myself of thoughts i have or i'll just sit down for an hour or two when i'm feeling like i might have an idea or i'm feeling like i'm feeling creative and just think about a problem like it could be as simple as like what's an interesting thing to do with um like i see a bunch of cigarettes on the street like cigarette stubs and or cigarette what do you call them butts butts in uh france there's one thing i've noticed i mean it's a very simple obvious thing but like everyone's seeing that too but is anyone doing something fun about that so and then also everyone's advertising certain products let's like an ai product or software how can you stand out and use something that's in front of everybody in a new way that's basically how i think of ideas because it's easier to twist something familiar than create some sort of new thing that no one's seen before.

7:40In my mind, yeah. Let's pull on that thread of the cigarette butt on the ground here. Sure, yeah. Where do you take that? You say no one's doing anything fun with that. I think most people would walk around and think, what fun am I supposed to have with that cigarette butt on the ground? Well, actually, I haven't thought about it yet, but that's something that I think could be worth thinking about. um cigarette butts on grounds yeah i don't know like uh they let's say they if i were to brainstorm about that right now they're gross people don't want they're not supposed to be there like i don't know first thought could you arrange them in a way that creates something beautiful that's kind of the obvious thing like juxtaposition yeah like what's the opposite of what it is and would that make someone think about it differently and or sometimes i just thinking about scale like those are tiny things what happens if you made a big one what would that look like or feel like and how would that change someone's mind about seeing a small one these are kind of abstract but it's like a very simple approach that i think is what i like to do is like what's like something familiar and done in a new way because i think i don't know it's just the way i think i think it's just funny i love absurdist comedy and humor and i grew up like reading new yorker cartoons like the simplest form of a simple line with a simple image that can like make you remember an idea or uh laugh in a way that you

9:10Samir Chaudry:didn't expect um so let's let's zoom into your nike campaign because i'm realizing that that carries a lot of the same yeah energy because it's a one shot and i remember this stuck out to me so much on Instagram, but it's a shot of someone running. Yeah. Right. And shoes running is a very familiar thing. But then as it pulls back, it reveals that he's running on this like concrete mixer. Yeah. So is that that's where that energy comes from? It was like, what's familiar, but then do it a different way. Literally, like the idea comes from, OK, I'm advertising a shoe, right? I do like oddly a lot of shoe campaigns like basketball running or like more like luxury shoes so i have like thousands i've been thinking about shoes for like past 10 years and have and it's the same thought process as like the cigarette but yeah there's no idea there yet but it's like people run all right this is a running shoe people run people run on trip like what's another like i just was thinking about treadmills for like all day and like what's an unexpected treadmill originally the idea was had come from an idea i had previously where i wanted to like put a rock climbing wall on a cement truck and so it's like continually rotating with like the rock climbing holds so you could climb it and it's kind of like a rock climbing treadmill and i just was looking through my notebook and i saw that and at that time i had received a brief from nike and i was like oh what if you were running on it not climbing on it it was honestly that simple but it sounds easy but it it takes like hours and hours and days sometimes to find that right idea and i pitched they'll ask for like i mean that was like a big campaign there's like 15 different videos that i ended up shooting with them but i just pitched them like hundreds of ideas and i just and i literally just share my google slide with a client it's like hey does any of this interest but especially like a sketchbook that i'm like sharing with the client it's funny i hear a lot of people work and then in two weeks they show a very polished presentation i actually like to show them just like i let them like join my google slide as i'm thinking and just like hey if you're ever ever interested to see my progress both to show you that i'm working on it and maybe you have an idea too so explain to us then um your gucci campaign yeah exactly the same i've always wanted to do something funny with mannequins so what's the campaign like what was the brief and what did you well okay the brief was they had just come out with this new collection called la familia where they had established certain characters in this like kind of italian family world some like this like in the the the looks and pieces were designed by the certain attitudes of like the italian family so there's like a fiery red jacket and it's kind of like a fierce strong woman um there's some other like more like i don't know chill clothes for maybe a more like chill person in the family that's a very like simple way of talking about their big uh strategy but basically the brief was like we have these characters we want to show these clothes like in an interesting way uh we need like i don't know how many videos they wanted you know three or five well they send me their clothes to their studio and i just like well first i send them ideas and they just send the product and sometimes i work with models and whatnot but it's a lot easier to like really display the clothes and like control bullet in a way where you don't have to have it on somebody i sent them like 12 15 ideas like lots italian food ideas like uh family portrait ideas using old family portraits on a wall interesting way and um and i had been thinking about mannequins for a while and i was like would be funny for mannequins are still what if they moved and what if they did something unexpected and what if they did one thing that represents that personality of that character and so me it was me and my uh friend dalton who makes all my props he we he went to we went to the junkyard we got like a car door he created these like a little mechanical devices and made like one woman just scratching a car door who's like a really angry person in the family and then we dressed her up in gucci she looked fantastic and it was just her scratching her car door almost like like a window display or something and then the next one was a guy trying to plug a plug in the outlet and it was just like ruining the wall and so i mean those are my favorite things something that's like actually possible to make um and a very very simple like twist on reality considering that you have such a unique lens on advertising right now this year what would you consider to be one of the best ads whoa damn uh what were they uh there was the uh the one where they painted the people to look like sim characters as coinbase oh i didn't see i didn't see that one it was trippy because it looks like just an old video game sims here but if you zoom in close they'd actually put makeup on people to look like video game characters that was cool oh one that i liked recently and a lot of brands have been doing cool stuff it's like the world cup has been covering over logos of stadiums yeah yeah you see the gillette stadium they covered it up in a shaving cream which is genius there's like yeah and levi's had a similar thing yeah stadium heineken did i love it it's just simple that's like some humor that i would do like yeah yeah just to say like a little bit rebellious is funny clever yeah yeah i love that simple stuff can you show us one of the ideas in here and maybe like a visual that you think would stick out like a contrasting visual where you're like oh i think this is because like you think in images you think in contrasting images and i find it so interesting what's the poster basically if you're making a video what's like the i guess you would say thumbnail maybe yeah what's like the visual and then what's the interesting path to get to that hero moment for the uh cement truck i mean it was a simple zoom out you're not sure what it is then you realize what it is and you then you can't believe that it is that um yeah very simple thing slight of hands just like you think it's one thing and then it's not um i mean that's usually the best type of entertainment i'm looking at your notebook here and i see airpod dice oh yeah and i can i can already see it where it's like people playing that's my friend dalton had the ideas um you know when you drop your headphones or and they they spread the they just like splatter on the ground they like run around it's actually one of the worst experiences ever yeah yeah and i've actually done like probably 10 videos just about that experience because i think it's hilarious but he had the good idea to what if you design the airpods to be like kind of like dice so every time they drop and fall on ground they would land on a number and you'd actually use it as a game rather than like a thing bad that happened what's this one leaf blowers concert t-shirts okay that one is an idea for there's a lot of leaf blowers in my neighborhood like there's a lot of trees and uh it's annoying right you wake up and it's like leaf blowers super loud what if they act what if leaf blower companies pretended like it was actually like really cool and it sounds basically announcing yourself as a touring band but you're just a leaf blower company and so like introduce and just imagine the guys with leaf blowers and it's just like coming to your neighborhood or basically treating it like music when it's actually just the most annoying sound yeah and then treating them like musicians rather than just yard workers got it so that's an idea that's funny and interesting and you're sitting on it in the event that a brand comes to you there's an opportunity no no no this is just personal but yeah maybe a leaf i don't know where that would fit in with the brand but um maybe it can't noise canceling headphones or something so if you were to synthesize this all into like three rules of good advertising what do you think they would be um

17:35three rules i mean on a entertain people

17:44and i can talk loud i guess yeah so i think right now in this moment like obviously we're

17:50Samir Chaudry:at can lions this is like the moment where advertising is awarded you've made a lot of interesting stuff like what do you think the rules of advertising right now are well for me is like you have to ask yourself seriously do you actually like what you're making like it's easy to like be caught up in like big productions fancy beach like you know the client's happy and it's like really cool to make an ad you're like mad man's goal and that you could easily become happy and content just because of you're in a privileged position to make an ad and you're on set or whatever but and a lot of people aren't honest about this like do you genuinely like what you're making and do you genuinely think people will like it it's very simple but i think sometimes you think you can get a celebrity or you get like amazing lighting a cinematographer and it looks really cool it looks like you're making a fucking ad which is super exciting but that can't distract you from actually asking yourself do you and sometimes we lie to ourselves yeah this is cool we did it we did it it's like a script we really like and we're like yeah like made it but then maybe a couple days after you look at it or even during and you have to be super honest with yourself like do you actually think this is good yeah and it's like kind of and it's obviously like you have to it's subjective in a way but i if i think people would actually not like like would be more honest with themselves and maybe actually like catch catch themselves before they go into production with something that they're excited about say is this actually gonna work and right i don't just i mean in that case you kind of just have to prove a concept it fast um and people are not gonna i feel like yeah i think it's hard answer it's hard i think that's a great answer um well pablo thank you so much for coming on dude thanks for being here i appreciate it and we will see you on the i'll see you in the water all right we'll see you in the ocean thank you guys bye

20:04All right.

20:05Samir Chaudry:Our next guest is Sir John Haggerty. He's an absolute advertising legend who's created campaigns for Levi's, Audi, Johnny Walker. I mean, countless campaigns, founded a company called BBH in 1982 and was knighted in 2007 for his work in advertising. Let's welcome Sir John Haggerty. John. John. Okay. Jay. Jay. He better. Quicker. I've wanted to have this conversation on microphones for some time. We had such a wonderful dinner with you where we learned about advertising. I wanted to start here because the story you told us that night when we were having dinner was that you made a Levi's ad that was so effective that it had to be taken off the air.

20:46We did, and it was called Launderette. And it was 1985. It went on air, and it was Levi's really trying to reestablish themselves. They were in serious trouble. And we'd made this commercial for them called Laundrette, 60 Seconds. It didn't research very well, believe it or not. Funny thing. But they had to run it. They'd made it.

21:11Samir Chaudry:Didn't research well, meaning they showed it to people. Meaning they showed it to people. And they kind of went, oh, I'm not sure. And this is an interesting point. And I'll come back to that. And anyway, it went on air. And within five days, they had to take it off air because they couldn't keep up with demand. And it's a very interesting thing about when you say something privately as opposed to when you say something publicly. It's a big difference in how people take it in. If I say something to you privately, you go, yeah, well, John, you would say that. If I say it publicly in front of all of these people, it changes what you say and what you mean.

21:51And it's one of the great lessons. And it's why when you try and research creative work, it really, really works because you're trying to one you're trying to break new ground, but you haven't got that relationship between kind of a private statement and a public statement. and that's what it did and it was taken off it you can go online and have a look at it and the other thing about it was that it kind of reintroduced men to boxer shorts and it remade the careers of people like Marvin Kaye and Benny King and people like that so it had a it really did have a profound effect on storytelling and how you tell a story I mean I've watched it multiple times uh but why do you think it was so effective so quickly what about you know that guy in the laundromat taking off all of his clothes uh well it was kind of um again a public you know you take your clothes off every day don't you or i do i don't know about everybody else but you know but he was doing it in a laundrette and he was doing a little laundrette because he wanted the jeans the way he wanted he wanted 501s the way he wanted them he only had one pair so he wasn't rich so he's telling you you're telling stories all the time so he's obviously not rich he hasn't got five pairs at home because otherwise he'd do it at home he goes in he doesn't really care what people are thinking around him he's not arrogant and he puts them into machine to get them the way he wants them and then he sits down next this great big guy who hasn't noticed a thing and just doesn't give a shit about what's going on so it's got a bit of sense of humor in it but the thing and this is a fair thing to say we didn't quite realize it but essentially we we remade a catwalk because that's what he's doing he's walking to a laundrette he walks down all these people are looking at him just like a catwalk not like paris fashion show except it's a laundrette saturday afternoon in some new york suburb and uh it had that and it had a connection but the star of it a guy called nick cayman had wonderful presence and he had a brilliant arrogance without it being offensive and if you see him he's confidence and people bought that i want that and what they really wanted to be was like nick cayman and if i put those jeans on i'm going to be like nick cayman and it's the old story you're telling you know so it was effective in lots of different ways i like that example so much because from my understanding the the character the the actor nick cayman he's not a known celebrity no right so you I think that's a lot of the talk here at Cannes with creators is we are trusted faces.

24:28We have built-in audiences. If you integrate a product with us, you are a step ahead because people already know who we are. But I think what you do and what Pablo does is having to break through without that advantage. Yeah, and I think we've always believed when I was working in advertising, the star of the show was the product. It wasn't something that you added on. And I think one of the great mistakes today, you know, I look at a lot of advertising and I kind of go, it hasn't elevated the actual product. The story should be around the product. It's driving the story. That laundrette, it was the jeans that was driving the story.

25:10He wanted the jeans the way he needed them, stonewashed, you know, and that was the only way you could get them back then. I think today when you look at work, you kind of think they adopt somebody else and try and go, I'm going to be great because I've adopted this rather than create. Now, I think, you know, it's interesting with creators because I think I've always likened them to like magazine editors. So, you know, if you go to if you buy a magazine, if you buy Vogue, you buy Vogue because you're into fashion and you're buying Anna Wintour. She is a creator. She's the same thing. So it's a different sort of, I think creators operate in a different place than sort of a brand coming on and advertising.

25:52That's why I think creators are so interesting because they have developed an audience. And if the brand, the product, whatever is right for them, then I think you can really create something very powerful and effective. And so it's a different way. I think that's right. I like to think of the way we are not a billboard. We are more a convention hall. Absolutely. is you're trusted in the way, you know, I remember we used to occasionally, we didn't do it very often, we'd go to magazines and do sort of advertorials, they were called, where the magazine would go, well, we'll write up the story for you.

26:28And it would be, you'd have to put advertorial, you know, but it was the magazine writing up about this brand. And it was trusted because the editor of that magazine said, what we've said is true. We believe in this, so you can trust it. And it's the same for a creator. So it's a different... That's what I think makes it interesting. It's a different way of approaching something.

26:51Samir Chaudry:When was the first time you came to Can Lines? I've got a funny... I was thinking about this. You know, the first time I came to Can Lines, one, you could see the beach, and two, you could walk on it. How about that? Oh, it was a long time ago. I came in, I was on a jury in 1988 for the first time I came. And, of course, back then it was film, which is why the line has a film reel. You don't have those anymore. And it was one Grand Prix, and it was all film. And then in about the early 90s, they expanded it into billboards, print, and that, and they started expanding it out. So, yeah, 1980. But I didn't come.

27:33I sort of used to come irregularly. And it's interesting, Ken. I have a love-hate relationship with it. I do, I kind of hate, I cannot bear drinking any more rosé. You know, I mean, although I have to say, which is very funny, this is why you've got to love the advertising industry. You've got to love them. they drank the Carlton out of rosé and they had to go to the Martinez, which is the hotel just further to supply them with, with kind of more rosé. And I, I just, I love the advertising industry for that. I mean, completely irresponsible. But, but then the thing I love about it is you get to do this.

28:19You, you know, I always said, if you don't bump into people on zoom and, and this is what's so great about it. You know, I met, you know, just this morning, I've met about three people I haven't seen for a very, very long time. That was just sitting out there. And that, I think, in a world where technology is trying to draw us apart, I think connections like this are incredibly valuable. We must cherish them. Cherish them.

28:44Samir Chaudry:So I want to talk about another concept that you've talked about because there used to be a level of scarcity in advertising, right? Where there was only a finite amount of ad space, whether it was magazines, billboards, television. Today with the internet, there's what feels like infinite ad space. And there's a premise that you talk about of stalking versus seducing. And the internet stalks you. If I search something, all of a sudden I am being attacked by that type of advertising. And so how do you recommend with us being in the ad business and everyone here thinking about advertising, with the rise of algorithmic feeds being able to reach you, how do you seduce someone?

29:29Samir Chaudry:And just talk about the difference between stalking and seducing. Yeah, well, I've kind of realized that the digital media strategy is stalking. And I do point out to people, in lots of countries, that's illegal. So I'm thinking of, you know, if I'm stalked, maybe I should call the Metropolitan Police up and say, look, I'm being stalked by this brand or whatever. Would you go and arrest the CEO, please? And I'm feeling threatened. But, you know, I kind of go principles remain, but practices change. You know, fundamental principles of life do not change, but practices change. And I think today the requirement of anybody in advertising is to elevate what they're doing, is to make it even better, more profound, more interesting, more consistent.

30:21and to understand the relationship between the brand and the audience. And it's very funny. We were talking about this with my partners just earlier on. A student came in to me. He was studying to get into a wonderful college in London, London College of Communication. He did a brilliant postcard. He just gave me his postcard. And it had a big circle. And it said, your family. And then another circle, which overlapped that circle slightly, and it said your friends. Another big circle, your passions, like that. Like three big circles, right down in the corner, like a pin, your brand. And I thought, this is such a perceptive observation that everybody working in advertising and everybody in brand marketing should have on their wall.

31:12Your brand is not that important. it you know if your brand disappeared tomorrow what would happen to the world i'd be a bit you know awkward it might be a bit oh dear me they're not around anymore never mind i'll go to someone else you know i was i was talking to a network provider recently i made that point to them that you know if you'd disappear tomorrow being convenient i'd have to switch to another network provider but you know you know who care but if taylor swift dropped down dead tomorrow You'd have, you know, people tearful in the street. And the answer is once you accept that, then you can begin to develop a communication program that begins to address that and make people go, well, how do I make myself more important?

31:59I do so by being funny, by being relevant, by being consistent, by engaging with you, not behaving like a twat, you know, all those things or stalking you. And brands don't do it. And I just kind of think, I just don't get it. I just do this. What do you think gets in the way? Is it too many people? Is it measurement? I think, you know, the great thing in life, whatever you do, is to try and remain outside and look in. And I think it's quite why, I think outsiders make very interesting people. Because they're brought up with that, I'm outside, I'm looking in. and I think if you look at so many of the great artists, the great thinkers, they were outsiders, you know, Leonardo da Vinci all the way through, you know, he was illegitimate, he was gay, he was vegetarian, left-handed, I don't know why that should be there, but you look at them, Picasso, outsider in France, he was an outsider and I think that fact of being an outsider helps enormously, so therefore when you come to being a brand manager director whatever it is you are remain that ability to step outside and look in instead of going into the organization then the organization is all important or powerful and you think the world revolves around you no it doesn't and i think that's what great creative people have i think that's the ability they have they have that sense to look in i was It was interesting, actually.

33:36I have to say, for me anyway, one of the greatest artists, David Hockney, died two weeks ago. And I kind of, he's older than me, obviously. Well, not obviously, but he's older than me. But he was kind of like part of my life. I loved his work, followed it. And I went to see an exhibition of his. They had it in London, a place called The Lightroom, where they project his work and he talked about it. It's fantastic. If you ever go to one of those, do go to them. And he was talking about when he went to California. and he talked about swimming pools and he said, I've never seen swimming pools like it.

34:12And he came from Bradford. Now, you probably don't know Bradford, but it's in the north of England. The only swimming pool you ever saw was municipal and it stunk of chlorine and it was enclosed. So he goes to California and he looks at these pools and they're rippling in the sun and he paints them. where Californians are all going, everybody's got a swimming pool. Why is that? But it was that outsider's view of it. And he talked about it. And of course, he then paints A Bigger Splash, one of the greatest paintings ever. And he does a thousand pictures on swimming pool. That being an outsider, and I think brands forget that.

34:51I think they don't understand how to step outside.

34:55Samir Chaudry:Like they don't understand what matters actually about the thing because they're too inside the thing. So I want to ask you then, because probably one of the primary differences with can and advertising in the world right now is the rise of AI. And most creators, including ourselves, are being asked to advertise AI products. If we were sitting in a room brainstorming around how to position AI to the world, how would you approach that with the timeless principles of advertising? Well, I mean, it's like anything, I think, in life. if there's good and bad about AI. I mean, we've debated the bad and, you know, what it's doing, the energy it's consuming, the fact that it's using other people's copyrighted material.

35:41And you have to resolve those things. You have to do it. You can't just go, tough shit, you know. But I view, the thing I've said about, the two things I've said about AI is, one, I think it democratizes opportunity. So, therefore, it's evened out the playing field. and the other thing I think is it's not a tool you collaborate with it and I think this is the first time in life that we've had something like that you collaborate with it up until this moment a computer is a tool my mobile phone is a tool pencil is a tool paintbrush is a tool suddenly you have something that you collaborate with But you're the one that's driving the conversation.

36:29And if you let it drive you, then you're in serious trouble. Well, you know, somebody made a lovely observation about AI. I wish it was mine, but it wasn't. And it said and he said humanity is AI's greatest asset. And if you think about it, that gives it its opportunity to show what it can do. But it needs you to really do it. So I'm I'm I'm cursed as an optimist. I think I probably said that to you. I think it's going to be amazing. I really do. And I think we should embrace it. We should be looking to see how we can really elevate what we do. I mean, one of the problems I think is a lot of people have looked at it and you get the left brain people in the world all look at it and go, oh, look at the money we can save.