Hollywood is Broken. Can YouTubers Fix it?

0:00The Colin and Samir Show is supported by Microsoft Copilot. This is something I thought I would never say, but can I share with you my favorite prompt? I mean, like when you say something like that, I have to say yes. Were you going to say no? No, but okay. Just let me hear it. So when I'm researching for a guest or I need to know a lot about a subject matter, I say, make me a podcast about. And when you do that, you're going to get a short blurb about that subject. And then in like two minutes, you're going to get a podcast. So check this out. Welcome to Co-Pilot Podcasts. Picture this, a guy working the front desk at a hotel, making lacrosse videos in his spare time, completely unaware that he's about to become one of the most influential voices in the creator economy.

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1:10Try it for your research. Try it for getting variations of your titles, your ideas. It's one of my favorite tools on the internet right now for our creativity. And now back to the show. Today on the Colin and Samir show, we're talking about the Camp Film Festival that took place in April in Austin, Texas. This is a film festival that's basically like Sundance, but if it was built by YouTubers. 1 ,200 people piled into the historic Paramount Theater in Austin. They showed 10 films and funded all of them, nine of which the creators got$10 ,000. One creator specifically got$100 ,000 to make a feature.

1:46Our friends from Yes Theory spoke at the event. It was sponsored by Patreon. And overall, it just seemed like a huge success, and there's a lot of momentum. I mean, the image of 1 ,200 people outside of the Paramount Theater was incredible. And even this premise that one digital creator got$100 ,000 to make a film, a 90-minute film. It's pretty crazy. And even the other nine creators, these are creators who a lot of them have never worked with actors before. They've never actually done traditional film sets. They are emerging digital creators that got an opportunity to make these films in a three-month window and then premiere them on a big screen.

2:20So this event was put together by Creator Camp. And these guys are kind of this emerging young crop of filmmakers that's connected to what's called the YouTube New Wave. essentially like very cool cinematic content that is not necessarily built for the algorithm. It's borderline anti-algorithm. It's anti-algorithm, but a lot of it finds good viewership. Yeah. But it's very much so like the indie filmmakers of YouTube. This group of creators, I think, has been historically trying to find a new path away from just like algorithmic success, brand deals, AdSense. Like they want to make films, but they want an economic model that make sense for them.

2:56That's cooler, I think. Yeah, they would like to hold on to their artistic integrity and yet still find a way to be successful and make films that have cultural impact. So according to the Creator Camp website, it reads, the internet is full of filmmakers with bold stories, but no clear path to bring them to the big screen. That's where our mission now lies. So the problem that they're presenting for creatives is that there are so many impressive and talented creators on the internet. Maybe in years past with the way that Hollywood worked, there was more of a path. It's always been tough. There's always been gatekeepers, but they feel like there's no clear path for now this excess of talented filmmakers to actually show their work on the big screen, transfer over to maybe the Hollywood system.

3:44To be clear, there's never been a clear path. It's always been tough. As a kid who grew up in LA, as two filmmakers in their twenties who wanted to take stuff to film festivals. Like there's never really been a hyper clear path, but I think there's a problem on the creative side, which is now that there are very good filmmakers who make good films and find an audience and they don't know what to do next. Should their work go onto a streamer? Should it go into theaters? Like what happens next? Or should they get, you know, a sponsor and put it in the middle of their movie? And on the Hollywood side, I think what's interesting is we've spent the past couple of weeks sitting in meetings at different Hollywood studios and, at different streamers, talking to them about what's going on in the world of creators because their curiosity is, okay, how do we engage with this cohort of storytellers?

4:32Because they're making massive bets right now, massive bets on IP. Let's take like an example of the Marvels. The Marvels, they spent$275 million to make the Marvels. And that's a bet on like IP. It's a bet on something that should work. It made 206 million in the box office, which again, It's a crazy amount of money, but it didn't perform in the way they wanted it to perform. And the biggest problem here is that they're competing on the same playing field, typically. Not in theaters, but on connected TVs, on the internet. You open up your connected TV and you have YouTube, you have Disney Plus, you have Apple, you have all these different apps.

5:12So you're essentially playing in the same decision-making matrix. And yet YouTube doesn't pay for its content. YouTube doesn't pay for its content. It can be made at$10 ,000. So you have a$275 million movie sitting on the same device as a movie that was made for$0. And audiences are choosing between those and it's a real choice. So when we go sit in these, you know, Hollywood studios or companies, like that choice is a problem because their business is also attention. So now the question becomes like, if I'm a Hollywood company, like how do I engage with this industry? Can I do something like the Camp Film Festival did and start funding smaller projects?

5:51Is that actually a viable way for us to potentially get a hit? So after we saw the success of this film festival, we decided to reach out to the CEO, which is Max Reisinger. Max Reisinger is a 22-year-old creator who lives in Austin, and he's been really pushing the Creator Camp brand forward for the past couple of years. He's also just an internet YouTube native. He's been uploading to YouTube since 2017. He was a teenager then. And he's just, he's an internet kid. So we talked to Max about why he thinks Hollywood isn't built for these types of creators. We talk about how he and his team are trying to build an entirely new economic model for art on the internet.

6:30And we talk about this question of like, what happens next with these films? What do you do now? Right? You made all these movies. What's their plan? And it's pretty interesting. All right. After our conversation with Max, we'll come back and we'll break down some of what he talked about and give you our perspective. All right, Max, what's happening, man? Just recovering from the fest, taking it all in. So the festival itself, like, what was the concept there? You guys funded Creator Films, right? Yeah, yeah. We funded nine shorts and one feature film. So sort of like a full sort of vertical integration, both making the projects for the Film Fest and putting on the Film Fest ourselves, doing like the whole thing.

7:12So what was the timeline of making those films? Who were these filmmakers? And what is the ethos of this film festival? Yeah. So our background is first as like YouTubers ourselves and storytellers on the platform. And that led us to running events and looking to build community with other folks, trying to push for more storytelling on the platform. And so as a business, for the last two years, we've done almost like 10 events now, bringing together like who we think to be the most talented internet storytellers, folks like Gox, Natalie, the Aspire family, Aiden, all of those folks, like the sort of YouTube New Wave side of the internet.

7:47And so we really came together and thought about like, what's next? You know, like, like, we all kind of know that the entertainment industry is shifting, the career world is shifting. But a lot of these folks have ambitious stories that they want to tell. And we've seen like little bits where of like, things changing where you see like Wesley Wayne gets his deal. Kane Parson gets his deal. We're seeing things evolve. And we were thinking, what is the next evolution for us outside of just events? We have the community. We have the talent. There's this thing happening. And what does it look like to fund these projects and to build this next A24 for the internet?

8:25So it really came from, we know these people. These are our friends. Let's take a bet on them and see how we can start to shake up the space and start to not just talk about, you know, YouTube and storytelling, but actually like sort of like plant our flag and start to build something bigger. How much did it cost like to fund these movies? Like what were the, when you say there's a feature and then there's nine films, like what were the budgets for these movies? Yeah. I love this question. Cause anytime I talk to someone who's more traditional, they like freak out. And when I speak about their projects, like, yeah, we do this features like$5 million.

8:59And this one was only$2 million. And I'm like, yeah, we did our feature for$100 ,000 and all nine shorts for also under$100 ,000 total. So everything was done for under $200 ,000, which is still a lot of money coming from no budgets. But then when you see the work, it's like, wait a second. Normally that would be done for millions of dollars, which I think is a testament to what we see with creators now and the ability for someone in their bedroom to just make something that looks insane with an FX3. So the traditional world of festivals, people are showing films with the hopes of getting picked up right and hopes of actually getting a deal getting their film purchased and then distributed um that's like an old model of festivals like they've actually moved since then to being almost more of like conferences in a way because like all the films are already pre-bought there's like it's not it's not the same world of like discovery there aren't as many film festival darlings as maybe they're used yeah yeah like sometimes there's like four films bought right this year something like super low yeah like yeah Is that the suggested premise of this film festival where like maybe a streamer does buy one of these pieces and like or like licenses it for distribution?

10:10Or is it exposure to the filmmakers to potentially get deals within studios and streamers to make other things? Yeah, great question. Interestingly enough, like when we first set out to do this, we we just had a lot of questions that we wanted to answer, like a lot of hypotheses. You know, like can creators make, you know, stuff with the team? You know, a lot of these folks have ever written anything. They've never worked with the team. It's just by themselves. You know, can, well, would audiences even show up to watch something on the big screen? You know, a lot of these creators are just short form creators.

10:42You know, you see what happens with like the last couple of years of VidCon. Sometimes not a lot of people are showing up or it doesn't convert in the way that we think. And then also like, how do we actually solve this problem? And what even is the problem here? Like, is it a production problem? Is it a distribution problem? Like, what do creators need to get to that next step, both within the traditional industry, but then also, like, is there a different industry completely to figure out? And so I think we set off looking to just bridge the gap to Hollywood. You know, like, creators can make it, like, that's what we're trying to prove.

11:14And I think maybe, like, halfway through, we realized, like, you know, is all of this just to get, like, an A24 deal for one of these creators? Like, there's, you know, nine other really good stories here. and they could just go on YouTube, but then they kind of just dissolve into the internet and get forgotten about. And so I think for us, we were like, maybe if someone said this, like maybe you're not building a bridge to Hollywood, you're building an entirely new highway. We're like, oh fuck, you know, like maybe we are. And so we've already been chatting with streamers. They're interested in the projects.

11:45I think they're trying to like figure out how do they bring fresh, new, engaging stories to the platform? How do they connect with, you know, new audiences and get them onto their platform? But I think really like the festival for us was just planting a flag in the ground. And if these projects were just posted on YouTube, I think they'd lose a lot of their like significance and weight in the way that they are experienced. And I think for us is less about the streamers and like convincing them or sort of being a place for them to be purchased, but really more like the in-person side, actually.

12:19And that's a different avenue for us that we're really bullish about is like, okay, this feature is insane. Like for$100 ,000, it's insane. Could we get this into like the box office and make$10 million off of this movie? Like, is it good enough? Can we distribute this wide and really shake things up and start to do things that like you'd have to rely on studios to do before? And that feels like another part of the equation that is almost more exciting than the streamers. So what you're saying there is essentially like Camp Studios has a vested interest in these 10 films, the nine short, the one feature.

12:56Yes. And if the one feature, let's say, did go to box office, it goes to A24, Camp Studios then essentially benefits. Well, I think for us, it's like, what if we don't need A24? Like the Internet is this permissionless place where creators, they own distribution many times. And that's like the most powerful thing about the Internet. And I think when you look at the entertainment industry, like why film festivals exist in many ways in the first place is why people go is to get distribution for their projects. And I think we're seeing that really start to dry up on the back end with the film industry.

13:28And that's like a real big problem for them. Like, how do we make money off of these projects? I think creators, on the other hand, are making things for oftentimes very little budgets and they have a lot of distribution. But it's still it's hard to capture the value for these more like long form projects. I think we see it with like more episodic content with shows. But when you really think about like making feature films or any type of long form entertainment, whether you're not trying to play a media game, you're trying to play an art game. I think it's a lot harder to play like an art game, not a media game when you're on social media and the algorithms and the platforms are designed in a certain way.

14:03And so for us, like the hardest thing to crack is like creating another layer of value that doesn't exist just on YouTube today. um so to answer to answer that question it's like what can the studios provide that that we could maybe also provide in a different way that feels more internet native where you maybe don't need an a24 deal because their slate is maybe only 20 films a year like the internet's putting out millions of stories a year like can we build a different pathway for these folks um that isn't necessarily competing with a24 just creating more opportunities um for for creators i think there's almost like a like a criterion of the new age right so like criterion is a subscription platform that's like you know if you're like a into indie films and like very you know kind of niche films and like it's almost considered a status symbol as like a film consumer right like if you're like i have a criterion subscription it's very like oh you're you're cultured right and i think you could essentially create a similar version to that um as like okay yeah you watch youtube but like do you have the camp subscription because you pay 9.99 a month for all the camp films that have come out because i agree with you i actually think one of the primary things is like when we sit with people in hollywood the issue is actually like not can you make money from a film that costs a hundred thousand dollars to make it's how much money can you make because yeah you know like for a filmmaker so let's say they get to make 250 000 off that film that film makes half a million dollars.

15:37They're stoked, right? A young filmmaker is stoked. Hollywood studios, we spend that in a day for our employees to just walk into our office. We can't have a movie that makes$250 ,000. And so I think that's the other interesting part is actually there's a cohort and crop of filmmakers who are down to be working creatives, meaning they don't need to make$70 million or or even$10 million. They're down to just make a living wage creating films. And that is where the two worlds don't intersect because Hollywood almost works as like venture capital where they need to make big bets that are going to result in big outcomes.

16:17But a young filmmaker, or like what you guys are suggesting is like, you probably just make like a healthy business doing this, like a healthy content business and like call it a day, you know, and still make cool stuff. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think that's the one edge with having much lower production costs is you don't need to now make$10 million off of the film. Think about A24. They're maybe buying the film for$10 million and they're probably putting another$10 million in print and ad to get it out there into the world. So then you need to at least make$20 million or$25 million. And I think for us, it's like, yeah, maybe there's a world in which you're funding 100 stories a year, 200 stories a year.

16:56And a couple of them or maybe half of them break even or do a little bit better and maybe one or two really pop. But you don't need every bet to be all your chips on the poker table where with these film studios, if you're$20 million in film flops, that hurts. You can't afford that in the same way. And I think there is a model that is more internet native in that way. But then also like, you know, it's, it's fragmented because you have a lot of communities and folks that watch things and you can have these like little economies and little businesses. But I think the other exciting component is like, can you break into mainstream culture as well?

17:31And can these projects and stories be good enough where it's not just like a parasocial relationship? And I think that's the thing that we want to crack as well is like when, when, when can a film that a creator makes be no different than a film that a24 puts out or maybe not even quality wise, but just like, like, uh, or like cinematic wise, but quality wise, you know, like it is just as good. And I think that's where it gets really interesting is like when you start to actually compete with the studios, um, you know, what, what do they have? What is their edge at a certain point? Um, I think that's where it gets kind of fun and interesting to explore with the release of new tools as it gets easier and easier to tell a bigger story.

18:09creators are just going to get more and more of a piece of the pie. I think that point around crossing over in terms of cultural relevance is what so many creators are looking for. Even creators who, let's say, their floor of videos, views that they will do is a million views. It seems astronomical. It's huge to get a million views per video. But that is still, by many people, considered a bubble. Like a small bubble that may not actually cross over culturally. Uh, and I do think that that's what creators are always looking for is that thing that crosses over. I want to ask you about ticket sales.

18:50Cause I was watching the video on the creator camp channel and I saw that that was a concern that you'd only sold 400 tickets and the goal was to be around a thousand. We saw there were 1100 people there. So what do you think happened there? How did that happen? And what was the experience like during the festival? Yeah, that was, I think, the scariest part for us is, you know, will people show up? You know, will this digital sort of excitement convert into real person excitement? And I think that sort of translation is like, I think what scares like any industry the most in a way, like from a disruption perspective, you know, like with what Beast has done when you're actually selling real things in person, it's competing with other brands.

19:30It's like, oh, shit, this is real. Same thing with like, you know, if a creator puts a movie out in theaters and it makes $50 million, it's like, oh shit, like this is real. Like there's actual power to this distribution. And that was the largest question mark for us. But it started to pick up. And I think with events in particular, it's always in like that last little like window or like week where it really starts to pick up and people decide they're going. And so for a while or for many months, we were like, maybe we're crazy. Like maybe no one cares about this. And then folks showed up and it was like electric, like really, really electric.

20:05And then a lot of folks, uh, uh, yeah, it was, it was insane. So were those to bridge that gap of like the extra 600, 700 tickets, were those purchase tickets or did you guys open it up? Yeah, no, no, no. Like it was, it was like actual like purchase tickets. Yeah. Um, and it, it really, it really ramped up, um, in, in, in a way that we didn't expect, honestly, it was like more than we thought. Maybe if we just have like 750, it feels full. We just didn't want it to feel empty because that's so, so depressing. But the fact that it wasn't just full, it was like, no, we have the top section of the Paramount is overflowing.

20:40And we had to actually stop selling tickets. I woke up the day before the fest and I'm like, we can't, no more. That's got to feel awesome. That's got to feel awesome. Yeah, thank you. Was there a sense after the festival that there was one film in particular, maybe it was the feature that was sort of the buzz or what everyone was kind of talking about? Yeah, I mean, the feature had like a like it felt like a 10 minute standing ovation. Like people were freaking out, like Jack Conti from Patreon afterwards. He was like crying. He was like freaking out, going up to us like, oh, my God, like Roger Avery, like Pulp Fiction was there.

21:15He was like, oh, my gosh, like this is incredible. So like people were buzzing really about the future because we did it in a hundred days. Like that's unheard of. And it was good. So it's just like, what was it meant to be an experiment and experiment worked. Tell us about the filmmaker too. Yeah. It was made by this guy, Baron Ryan, American Baron on Instagram. Who's written a book before, but just really known for like these short stories on, on, on Instagram. If you guys, have you seen some of his work? I've looked into him a little bit. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Cool. Cool. And yeah, I mean, he set out to write the thing, the full feature film and is, it's, it feels kind of like I'm trying to, I forget like the exact log line, but, but it tells a story of like two different relationships and they're kind of blending reality.

22:07And it's sort of talks about these like classic relationship tensions and an interesting narrative way. I'm not doing the best job of explaining it right now, but it's interesting. And there'll be a log line somewhere online that does a better job at explaining it than me. But it was good. It was good. So what happens next with the movie? I know you guys are doing a digital version of the film test, right? Where essentially you pay money, you can watch all the films via Patreon. What happens next after that? Are you trying to get a distribution deal or is it just forever? It'll be maybe available pay-per-view or under a subscription.

22:43Yeah, yeah. So we're doing the digital experience, like the live experience watch party for fans with Patreon and their new platform there. But afterwards, yeah, it'll be different for the films. Like we want to take the feature into theaters and really like prove out that model and like invest and get it as far as possible from the theatrical standpoint. And then the shorts, we're talking to a few different streamers who are interested in acquiring shorts, which is fantastic because usually shorts never really get that type of distribution. but we're seeing a lot of interest from streamers who are they're just eager to be involved with creators and wanting to build like long-term relationships there so there'll be different places that they'll go which is like really exciting because we were just planning to put them on YouTube afterwards but it feels like there's a much longer life for the projects and do you think that is a net positive that they go on like let's say I would assume one of the conversations you're having is with Peacock because Peacock's doing like this creator accelerator creator and putting out shorts from creators on Peacock.

23:43Is it a net positive that they're on Peacock? Do you think that's like validation? Is it money? Because from a viewership perspective, like if you want the movies seen, YouTube is probably the best place for them to be seen, right? And accessed. So what's your, how do you like think about that in terms of like, you know, obviously we're, we're like in our mid thirties, like getting a stamp of validation from Hollywood matters to us. Like if Netflix offered us a deal, I'd be like, oh my God, I would take that deal any day of the week, even if it meant less viewership than YouTube. But for a budding filmmaker who wants their stuff to be seen, what do you think that – how do you ration with that where it's like, okay, cool, I can put this on Peacock, but maybe significantly less people will see it if it's on Peacock than if it was on YouTube.

24:24Yeah, it's a great question. I think there will continue to be tension between the streamers and YouTube. And I think right now it feels like YouTube is just slowly eating and eating, eating away at them. And I think streamers are going to, I mean, we're already seeing it, right? Like what can they offer that's different and unique? And like, where's all the attention and excitement? It really is with creators. And I think we'll continue to be. And I think there's no right, there's no right way to go about it. And I think for us, it can look different. Some of these deals as well. Like some of the windows could be shorter.

25:01And I think how we're thinking about a lot of the content is if you just put it on YouTube today, you can capture some sort of value. I've had YouTube videos that have gotten a couple million views, but I've put in months and months of work and I was only able to make a couple thousand dollars off of AdSense. And that's fantastic. That is a great opportunity. But for us, the thinking is also like, can you create more value on top of that before it goes to YouTube? Like it can still live on YouTube, but if you can use a more traditional Hollywood windowing strategy, you can capture more value along the way.

25:31And I think that's like the shift that we're starting to see is like, you know, you're not going to go to theaters and watch like a YouTube, like how to video. You know, that's not interesting. That's that's media. It's not an experience in the same way. And I think where we come from is like this next generation of like artists and storytellers that are creating art and art is an experience that people will pay for and want to watch collectively. And I think for us, like, you know, like theaters right now are 11 percent like occupancy rate. So they're empty and you have like billions of hours of content being watched.

26:02And I think, you know, even like one percent of the box office is like eighty five million dollars, which is like a decent amount of revenue. And if we can put projects into theaters, then the CPM is like, you know, a thousand times higher because people are actually paying a lot more money than like, you know, the fraction of the cents that creates like downward downstream value momentum. them and then streamers are interested and then it could still live on YouTube. But I think for us, it's like, can you create more opportunities before it goes on YouTube? And maybe it's just on the streaming platform for three months or a couple of months.