Lessons in Creativity from Kevin Hart, Beast Games and Adam Grant

0:00The Colin and Samir Show is supported by Microsoft Copilot. This is something I thought I would never say, but can I share with you my favorite prompt? I mean, like when you say something like that, I have to say yes. Were you going to say no? No, but okay. Just let me hear it. So when I'm researching for a guest or I need to know a lot about a subject matter, I say, make me a podcast about. And when you do that, you're going to get a short blurb about that subject. And then in like two minutes, you're going to get a podcast. So check this out. Welcome to Co-Pilot Podcasts. Picture this, a guy working the front desk at a hotel, making lacrosse videos in his spare time, completely unaware that he's about to become one of the most influential voices in the creator economy.

0:38Today, we're diving into the remarkable story of Colin Rosenblum. Wow. Did you pay it to say that? That's crazy. That's very kind. It's crazy, but it's my favorite way to learn about a subject matter. I'm learning about so much more now that I can turn this research into like a seven minute podcast that I can listen to just when I'm walking. Did you tell it that I worked at the front desk of a hotel? Dude, the prompt is just, make me a podcast about Colin from Colin and Samir. That's it. I may be biased, but I'm on the edge of my seat. I'm hooked. So if you guys haven't checked out Copilot, check it out.

1:10Try it for your research. Try it for getting variations of your titles, your ideas. It's one of my favorite tools on the internet right now for our creativity. And now back to the show. Hey, what's up, everyone? Welcome to this episode of the Colin and Samir show. First and foremost, if you're watching this on Spotify, you might notice We're in a different set. We will tell you all about that. Also, on this episode, we're going to bring you through our experience at Spotter Summit with a ton of creators and a bunch of really interesting speakers. We're going to give you all of our insights from that experience.

1:41And some advice that Kevin Hart gave to us and all creators. We're also going to talk about the YouTube CEO, Neil Mohan's four big bets for YouTube and react to those. So a lot in this episode. And before we get going, I want to ask you guys if you're going to be in Austin for South by Southwest in March. If you are going to be there, Colin and I will be speaking there on March 7th and we'll be hosting a Coffee with Creators on Saturday, March 8th. So if you're in Austin, come check that out. If you subscribe to our newsletter, The Published Press, you'll get information there. All right, let's get into this episode of The Colin and Smear Show.

2:21if you're watching this on spotify we're in a totally different place we are recording live well not live not live but i like to say we're live we're recording from the lighthouse studios in venice so the lighthouse if you're unfamiliar with it it is a new creative space in venice um which is like our backyard. We have moved in here. We are the heads of the creator council. We are helping fill the space with other creators. There's production studios. We're building our set in here. But for right now, we're using one of their podcast sets. And I got to tell you, it's awesome. Upstairs, there's a coffee shop.

2:58There's like open space to work. It's a very cool creative environment. And it kicked off last week with this opening festival. And this was a really cool moment for me. First of all, it was my first time out since having a baby out of the house, which was great. Welcome out. But second of all, what I really liked about it was that it was this mix of like the creator space. So people who make YouTube videos, the six guys were here. Hayden Hillier-Smith was here. We got up on stage and talked. But then also, you know, classic like TV programming, like the people who make the bear. Yeah. The showrunner of the bear, Lionel, who plays Marcus, the pastry chef and Will.i.am.

3:36And Will.i.am. here talking about the future. Yeah. So an awesome new space. And it kind of just goes in line with this whole theme of new. Can I admit something to you? Tell me. I think being the head of the creator council has gone to my head a little bit. What does that mean? I just, even walking around here, I've like dropped it too much. You just tell people. No, like when I'm asking questions here, trying to figure out the space and like how it works logistically, you know, like we're just moving in, we're getting used to everything. I found that I've been dropping like, oh, I'm the head of the council and I don't need to tell them that because it has no bearing to their answer.

4:09Like it does not matter. Yeah. They're like, sir, it's fine. Yeah. Like we'll figure it out. That's good. You should have a badge like because it's kind of like being student body president. Yeah. And I wonder if it'll be. Oh, we're dealing with the head of the council. I wonder if it'll be taken to a Democratic vote in the future for us to get like reelected as heads of creator council. I would prefer that. Really? Yeah, I think so. I don't think we should be in charge forever. I think there needs to be checks and balances. Maybe someone will be better at this. in the future. So anyway, things are going to change.

4:36And what I was saying is like, this theme has changed for us this year. If you guys didn't watch our YouTube video, I don't know how to say this lightly, but both of our homes burned down. It's pretty intense in the Palisades fire. And we're still just kind of figuring that out. That part of life is like, it's a major thing to happen, a major event, a lot of emotions to process, but also a lot of logistics to figure out. Yeah. Let alone with you having a baby, this new move, like we said, in that video on the channel, we're releasing episodes right now that were primarily shot before the fires.

5:10And we're just kind of getting, I don't know, trying to stabilize a bit in every way. And we will figure out what the episodes are that sort of come after this run. I definitely feel, I mean, you know, all this change, change, I think inspires a lot of creativity and a lot of, um, a lot of art. So it's, uh, it's an exciting time creatively. It's a challenging time personally, but it's like, it's all a mix. It's, it's up and down. It's, uh, it's really interesting to, to be a dad. All I want to do is call all the other YouTube dads and be like, how did you do this? How does this work? Like, what was your schedule like on a day-to-day basis?

5:48I'm so fascinated by it. I can't help but think back to Casey's daily vlog. Oh my God. You know, and be like, how did, how did you do that? But it is, um, it is a really interesting organizing principle. You really have to be very efficient with your time. I wish I could relate to you, but I'm about five months away. I just cannot wait for you to be able to relate. I'm so curious. I just want to witness you in this state. I'm sure I'll be a mess. I can't wait to see it. I said this to you earlier, but I feel like you're an innie on Severance and I'm an outie right now and I will be an innie in about five months.

6:20Can't wait for you to join. All right. So what I wanted to talk about is something that happened before the fire. You know, obviously after that, our whole world got turned upside down. But prior to the fire, we did something that we do every January that we've done every January for the first or for the past three years, which is co-host Spotter Summit. It is, first of all, I think the best event in the creator space and like the most fun week that I look forward to every year. I would say too, we learn more during that one week in the beginning of the year than almost at any other point throughout the year.

6:58Like the learnings from the speakers and just from being with the creators that are there take us throughout the whole year. Yeah, so we always like to bring some of those learnings to you guys. So we did that last year. We learned a ton from JJ Abrams and Dr. Peter Atiyah, who we ended up having on the show. And the year prior from Matthew Lund from Pixar and the team at OpenAI. So it's been a really cool, really special week with a ton of learning. So this year we took a bunch of creators with the Spotter team to Mexico. And we spent a week, you know, it was a really good group of creators. We had Ryan Trahan there this year.

7:31We had Canigra Dion, Mr. Beast, Jimmy was there. And so we had a lot of opportunity to first kick things off by talking about Beast Games and the Amazon show. There was a team from Amazon Studios there because they have a deep partnership with Spotter and Spotter was involved in putting together Beast Games. So we got to first hear about that. And that was really cool. We had this like very intimate discussion that you and I hosted with Jimmy and with Vernon Sanders from Amazon Studios. And I think it was so illuminating to me and so cool to see the way that Amazon views creators. Like sitting in that room being like, look, you guys know.

8:17Like you guys know how to engage an audience. You guys have the ideas. that was really cool to see and to learn about some of the insides that we didn't know about Beast Games. First and foremost, the burning question that was asked almost immediately when we opened it up for questions was, was this successful? Just like, what are we looking at here? And we were in the early stages of the season being released, actually, when that question was asked. But the answer was overwhelmingly yes. This was a massive hit globally and in the US. And while they didn't confirm necessarily anything about season two or potentially season three or just the future of the show, it seems by all indications that like this will be now something that happens.

9:01Yeah, it was something that we talked about with Jimmy on our show when the show was initially announced was like this will play a big role in what the future of streamers times creators looks like. And I think the, you know, what it feels like now on the back half, like that show's done, which is amazing. It's been a year since it was announced. It already got produced. It already got released. It's already done. But it feels like right now, like there's a lot of energy towards more creators times streamers. Um, I think it's, it's probably going to be something that we see a lot more this year, but I think it's going to be reserved for a very specific group of creators.

9:40Absolutely. There was something that I learned at spotter summit from Kevin from amazing digital circus, which is just like a colossal animation channel on YouTube. And he was telling us that he made a first of its kind deal where his show will be released on both Netflix and YouTube at the same time. Right. In the same form, which I'd never heard of anything like that before. Right? And that opened my eyes in a major way that like, oh, are we going to see similarly actually to what happens a lot with like traditional media publishers that they will release on YouTube and on the streamer? Normally it's like staggered.

10:18Will we see that for some creators who hit a certain bar of quality of like, oh yeah, you can upload on YouTube and we're going to give you the green light to upload these on a streamer. Yeah. I, I, I think like this concept of syndication is going to become a much bigger concept in our space, which is a classic entertainment and media concept, right? I make something it airs originally on this network, but then it goes, you know, it's why the office is on like TBS constantly right now. And, um, you know, it is a classic thing that happens in media. So I think that, that like streaming syndication will happen.

10:51It might be simultaneous, which has never happened before. It didn't typically happen in TV before. It used to be like first run on a network and then the reruns would go on another network. But I also read an article that said that Netflix has been eyeing video podcasts and that they courted Call Her Daddy in this process of her finding a new home post Spotify. And I think I think that that to me is what this year will start to feel like or illuminate is what are the new models? What is actually about to happen? because YouTube has been very forthcoming about their share of connected TV viewership, right?

11:29Like Neil Mohan released his big bets for 2025. Television is a big one. And one thing he said, which I loved actually, was that YouTubers are the startups of Hollywood. Yeah. I loved that. I thought that was - This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. Between two-factor authentication, strong passwords, and a VPN, you try to be in control of how your info is protected. But many other places also have it, and they might not be as careful. That's why LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats. If your identity is stolen, they'll fix it. Guaranteed or your money back.

12:04Save up to 40 % your first year. Visit LifeLock.com slash podcast for 40 % off. Terms apply. It's really cool. Somewhere where that actually comes into play, like to loop back to the conversation with Amazon and Jimmy at Spotter Summit, it, they were talking about the timeline of production and how this show really broke the norms and exceeded the expectations in Amazon's eyes of how long it should take to make a show like this. They made it in a really short amount of time. And when it came down to dubbing the show so that it could be watched and consumed around the world, Jimmy's team actually took care of the dubbing for the show.

12:43so this is like a totally new model where like you would never think the talent although jimmy is not talent but like you would never think traditionally like the host of a game show would be like no let me take care of the dubbing for international distribution but jimmy is a production company he is like you know the advanced startup yeah of hollywood like he is that next generation and is able to take on intricate things like that in a short amount of time in a way that maybe a more traditional production company could not. Yeah. Because he's crazy enough for the last 15 years to try and make something every week and to put himself on a schedule like that and continue to level up production-wise.

13:26That creators are the ones who have these new, shorter timelines and modes of production. Yeah, they're more nimble. They're innovating faster. It's like classic startup. It just hasn't happened at this scale in entertainment in Hollywood. Um, Neil Mahon in his letter also talks about Alan Chicken Chow, who just opened up a 10 ,000 square foot studio in Burbank. He talks about Kinegur Dion, who's building a studio in Alabama. So it's not just that creators are like innovating and nimble in the context of, you know, stuff like dubbing, but it's also they're building facilities, which then suggests that they're probably going to launch new shows or, you know, start to make more programming out of their studios.

14:06So then now you start to realize, okay, the thing I constantly come back to is cost, cost of production. We all just know how to produce at a lower cost. I did a conversation with the Wall Street Journal about this, about streamers and YouTubers. And I will always bring up the Raka Raka A24 example that they spent$4.2 million to make a movie that ended up making over$90 million. dollars so i think that creators when given a what for them feels like a huge budget four million dollars it's like a massive budget obviously jimmy 100 million plus dollars is a is a massive budget um but but i think the middle tier of creators given like a two to four million dollar budget can make something really exceptional that that will travel so i i think my like if I'm doing my big bets of 2025, I think this finally will happen.

15:04Like there will be a new model. It might take way longer than we expect, but there will be a new model and we will start to see stuff like Amazing Digital Circus that ends up on Netflix. I think we will, by the end of this year, see two to three more streamers beyond Prime Video engage deeply with creators. And that's probably going to be Netflix. And it's probably, it potentially will be Disney Plus in the context of like family-friendly programming. I hadn't heard that before about Netflix and podcasts, but that makes perfect sense. There's just so much competition right now for me to open up Netflix, especially as I'm watching Severance.

15:44I've been watching Peacock lately. Because of SNL? Love Island All-Stars, but also I've been watching SNL. But I got it for Love Island All-Stars. There's a lot of competition. And I think YouTube is the platform that is taking up that background viewing, specifically on TVs, where people are putting on a podcast, they're putting on music, or they're putting on longer episodes. And it does not surprise me that Netflix would want to go after that. Yeah, of course. Why not? Yeah. And I think, again, I think Neil Mahon in his letter also talks about how YouTube is the new television. and I think plain and simple everyone needs week to week everyone needs something week to week and video podcasts give you a week to week content slate and I think that's really important like right now severance being week to week people are opening up apple tv on a weekly weekly basis with severance not out I haven't opened apple tv in months yeah maybe years but with it out on a week-to-week basis now I get exposure to what other programming is there and I think Netflix with the volume of programming they have, they need people on a week-to-week cadence.

16:51I wonder how things are going with them and the WWE because that's every Monday night now live. Like, look at what they're doing. They're trying to create a week-to-week cadence that YouTube just has without trying. But I do think on YouTube, there isn't as much connective tissue generally. Between programming. Between week, from week to week. Oh, interesting. Right, the interesting thing, you know, when people say YouTube is the new TV, I think YouTube is taking up time on TVs. Sure. But watching Severance now and feeling that feeling again of watching episode one and being so confused, but knowing that they will reveal the answers to me by episode four, five and six.

17:31Like that is what is very special about TV and brings me back week to week. And I'd love to see more of that on YouTube. The cliffhangers at the end of an episode that you have to come back next week. Yeah. And they're intentionally obscure and you don't get all the information in an episode, which is hard to do on YouTube because you'll want to click off if you're confused. But you know when you're watching TV, if you're confused, most likely there's something bigger at play and it's going to be revealed to you later on. And on YouTube, you might not algorithmically be fed the next episode. You might just jump to another video.

18:02Yeah. Which is challenging. um on the on the topic of of jimmy uh and and him you know doing the dubbing and this this concept of like creators being these startups of hollywood um the the the headline speaker was kevin hart and that was awesome yeah kevin hart is to see kevin hart walk into this room to speak with you and i yeah like watching him walked up to us i felt like it was happening in slow motion that was crazy and then by the way i was really proud of my dap with kevin hart yeah you're you're good at that though. Dude, I was like, it was a strong dap up. I did okay. I give it a seven out of 10.

18:39But you did better than typical. Yeah, exactly. No, typical is like a four. And some days it's a one, like a total miss or something. But it was, I mean, first of all, Kevin Hart is very gracious, but also I think similar to this concept of when Silicon Valley startups were really starting to take shape, he's a ton of interest in creators. He's got this production company, Heartbeat Productions, and they're also engaged with Spotter. And so Kevin Hart came out to meet creators, to chat with creators and to give his advice. And first of all, I just loved hearing his perspective on creators. But second of all, the thing that really stuck with me was how much he talked about on his rise, how much he went to see his audience.

19:29I was just going to bring up the same thing. That is what stuck out to me from speaking with him when I think we asked him about longevity. And he talked about how still to this day, he is going to Buffalo, New York, or he's going to these smaller markets. He's going to Asia and Europe to see his fans. that it is the most important thing that he does is keep an incredibly active schedule, right? Whether it's like press junkets for movies that he goes on or just doing standup. He is incredibly active. Yeah. And it really made me realize that if you want to have a true community and a fan base, you need to be out there in the world and seeing them.

20:12Like it is the best way to keep that connection over long periods of time. He's been doing it for like two decades. And to transcend algorithms, I think. Yeah. Yeah. That's something that's super important. He was talking about, uh, he, he was talking about like when he started getting into fitness and he's got this like big deal with Fabletics, right? He became an owner in Fabletics and, uh, he was explaining that when he got interested in it, he decided to just start like a run club and he's like, cool. I'm just going to like post on Instagram. I'll be here. I'll be running. You want to, you want to join me?

20:43And it was like, he said, I think it was like a hundred people the first time that like 700 people showed up to run with him. And he's like, yeah. And you like look them in the face and talk to these people who are your fans. And it sounds so obvious, but to sit in a room of digital creators and like really hammer that home, that that is, that is the path. You have to be with your community. You have to be with your fans. It's really interesting to recognize like the framework of standup allows him to constantly offer people the opportunity to buy tickets and come see him. Yeah. I've been looking at Jake Shane, who we had on the show.

21:17Yeah. Dude, he is always on tour. I know. Like he is constantly doing live shows. And I thought about Kevin Hart in that when Kevin said that, like, if you really want to do this, you've got to be in front of people. I'm really impressed with how Jake Shane's doing that. Did it make you think that that will be a part of our future? I think it has to be. I mean, I want it to be. I love when we do stuff like that when we do coffee with creators i love it i love when we're even at the lighthouse festival here like just being up on stage and talking to people like it is so rewarding and so fun uh i would love nothing more than to do that like i i we've been talking about and toying around with a tour for a long time um we're now this year talking about some bigger events but do we bring the babies on the road yeah man okay i got a road baby you got a road baby?

22:07Yeah. You'll have to meet your baby and see, but I think, I think I got a road baby. Knowing myself, I don't know if I'm going to have a road baby. I think you might think you don't have a road baby, but he might be, but he might be a road baby. And he's like, they're going to be road dogs. And he thinks I'm lame. And he's like, yeah, my dad's not a road dog. No, I mean, we're pretty like, you know, look, here's just, if I may, as a, as a father of four weeks, give some advice. This is your time. Actually, for all of time, you're going to be able to do that for me. If I may, as a father for Six months longer than you?

22:35I've been a father for just about four weeks. But I would say like what we've been trying to do is like create a life situation and an environment that matches what we want our life situation to be. So like I want him to be able to sleep when the house is kind of noisy and we have people over and there's music playing and there's, you know, like I want him to be able to sleep like that. So we don't keep the house dead silent when he's sleeping or like, uh, I want him to be able to like sleep at a restaurant during his nap time rather than just always like very specific. So he's a road dog. Well, this just, this just became a totally different podcast for 30 seconds.

23:11Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, now it's part of it. Like as creators who want to, and have talked about going on tour for years and now going to be dads, we got to simulate tour for our kids. That's what we're doing. Yeah. So we got to get them together, have a roaring applause happen all of a sudden. Got it. Then talk for an hour in front of them, another roaring applause. And then... Are we talking tour bus or are we talking tour flights? Like a California tour on a bus? I think like some... You don't strike me as a bus guy. No, no. I was going to say I'm all in for the bus. Oh, okay. Because I think the bus is where the memories are made.

23:48It sounds really fun. It does sound fun. Yeah. Do you think we'd have a messy bus or a clean bus? definitely where our section was is going to be a disaster yeah total disaster it would just be computers and chargers and hard drives and like yeah uh pretzels yeah just it would be a disaster yeah um okay the the other thing that kevin hart said um he really hammered home this concept of of being work for hire basically saying that like in the business that we are um you know even him as an actor, like he's worked for hire, like a studio wants to hire him to act in a movie. He acts in that movie and they're paying him to do that.

24:27Um, and he talked about the concept of ownership and how important ownership is in the, in the world of creativity, owning the IP, owning the production company, um, having a piece of the backend of the project. And I think that's a, um, you know, it's really important for us as creators to hear that because as much as you feel like you, you own so much, you, you don't, um, you know, you, you, you actually don't own the distribution platform you have. Um, when you're working in the context of like advertising, you are still work for hire. And I've, I've really recognized, I've talked about this, I think on the show a couple of times with like, we, we are much more like a band than we are like a, like a company.

25:04And, um, like we, we perform and we do a thing and then we get paid to do that thing. And what Kevin's talking about is how do you now become the company or the owner in the context of the projects where you also make money when you don't perform? He talked about putting his foot down when opportunities come in for him. And if it's an opportunity where they just want him, let's say, to act in a commercial, but they don't want heartbeat productions to do the production of the commercial, then it's just not the right opportunity for him. And of course, he has that leverage. But it does take that moment when you sort of put your foot down and say, that's actually what I want to build.