Mark Rober's $60 Million Dollar Experiment

18:26Samir Chaudry:You can't cut that. It's on record. It's on YouTube. It's already on our channel. It's golden. You didn't know the guy and he didn't know you. It's a great moment. It's a great moment. Yeah. Very good. But now, I mean, you know, from my understanding, I think there's probably 50 people in the content org, if not more, right? Working across Mark Rober content. Oh, yeah. Full time over 50. And then obviously we expand in shoots and when we need additional teams. But like, yeah, for Crunch Labs and for the Mark Rober channel, we have like, yeah, over 100, maybe like 110, 115. 110 on content, making videos.

18:58Well, no, like on making also the Crunch Labs boxes. So folks who order the stuff. Yeah.

19:03Samir Chaudry:So I'm curious about, from your perspective, from a guy who started uploading very simple YouTube videos, this has probably been a relatively gradual process i assume but what are the trades of this era of you making content and videos versus you know even the first time we checked it it's a good question you know the number one thing that keeps me up at night is how do you keep it fun and like maintain the heart because i think the authenticity and the heart that's so easy to see when that leaves a channel. And so often that's correlated to scaling up. I just released a video where, you know, it's been a running theme on my channel where it's like, I'm trying to be the world's greatest uncle.

19:49And it used to be, I'd make an Orbeez pool for my, or Jell-O pool. And I'd always have my niece and nephews there. Uh, but now my youngest nephew's like 16 years old.

19:58Samir Chaudry:It's cool to see him grown up. I watched that video. I was like, this is, this is, we've watched him grow up on the chat. Yeah. And, but it's still at the core. So it's like a different video. Like I had people who help with the builds. We had people who coordinated the locations, right? So I get a lot more help on the thing, but I get the core of like, what is the story? It's still like me trying to be a good, like the best uncle hanging out with my nephew, legitimately having a great time with him. And it's a great example of the new relationship too, because that video, we purposely kept it authentic and really intimate to his relationship with Beckham.

20:32But the shoot window was a different model, which we wanted to see, okay, can we do a main channel video with this type of timeline rather than, you know, some of Mark's videos can go years. And so it's a huge commitment, but this was us trying to experiment a little bit of like, what can we do in different ways to take some of the pressure off the timetable and all the content that we need to make? So I think, but to answer your question, like, is it the same as me in my backyard with the squirrels? Like, I don't think it is the same level of like, if I'm being completely honest, like just charm of just like me and a tripod doing a thing.

21:05But at the same time, it's like an expected value problem where it's like you multiply the efficacy of a thing, whether it's like a hundred percent times, the number of views gives you the total brains impacted. And maybe it's like, we've lost maybe like 15 % of the heart, but now because we can make way more content, it's going to be more engaging. The number of brains you get, the number of potential eyeballs is much bigger. So the total impact is larger. interesting and so it's like that's kind of how i view it and i really this is why scott's helpful is like i am i manage one person that's jim like he's the only person that reports to me i'm a terrible manager i don't like it right i don't i'm not good at money stuff i'm not good at even analytics you know jimmy and i always talk about this like everything is still very heart driven like what feels right what feels good what would be like a fun banger video that resonates it's never like what is the current audience wants like what is the analytics say that's the content we should make like it's it's never been that and it still isn't and so like in that sense nothing has changed and and i most of my time is now my days are like really scheduled tight each one of those meetings i was like a creative meeting where we brainstorm we're talking about stuff we're coming up with ideas i am not in meetings where we're talking about budgets or fiscal planning or manager review stuff.

22:30I think that is a mistake a lot of creators make, especially small, like going from just you to 15 or 20, they become a president and a manager and people are reporting them and they're having to do HR stuff. And the audience feels it. And the audience feels it. It's like, I'm very allergic to that. And by the way, I just suck at it. So it's like, I'm honest enough to know that I suck at it and I hate it. I'm good at the creative stuff.

22:54Colin Rosenblum:So I think from a content perspective, my desire and advice to the Mr. Beast of the world, the Mark Robbers of the world who have scaled and are trying to think about like, how do I keep that core magic within a bigger organization? Yeah, please. Is to realize that every once in a while, you can still make a similar type of video to back then. You know, even Jimmy, this is an anomaly because he released the Hi Me in 10 Years video, which is the message to himself. but on his second channel, he made a video of him reacting to that video and it was so stripped down. It was so YouTube and so core.

23:30Colin Rosenblum:Yeah. And that is an option that you have on your own channel that you don't always have on a streamer or on TV, right? To be like, you know what? Next month, I'm going to make the really stripped down video for the core. I love that. But I would also make a point, a larger point though, is like the audience has changed too. Yep. Like the audience wants different things. Yep. Like I couldn't, if I made the world's largest nerve come video that I made a decade ago, exactly how I made it then. Like that gets 300 ,000 views with today's audience.

24:01Samir Chaudry:The landscape has changed. The landscape has changed dramatically. There's these videos that have, that pick up a lot of traction that I noticed recently over the past probably six months. There's these videos that are like how private equity changed your favorite YouTube channels. And in one of them. That video keeps getting made again and again and again. getting made and it's, I was trying to understand why these videos are getting made. And then also why this reaction is happening. What's the premise? I don't understand. We're in one of the videos and it's like examples of like Colin and Samir getting an injection of capital from private equity.

24:34Samir Chaudry:And that's why they feel different. And I was like, we, we have never gotten an injection of capital from private equity. Like there's no, there's no private equity, um, in most of the channels that are mentioned in, in this, uh, in a lot of these videos. But I think the emotion is the professionalization of creators, right? The emotion from the audience is, this is not legacy media. Yeah. Or like, I think even with Jimmy or, or, or you, I think the biggest difference for me as an audience member is there are times where you feel more like a host than the creator. Like I can feel the production and you are the host of this production.

25:10Samir Chaudry:Same with Jim. You go back to him, both you guys during that era of him putting like orbeez in a pool you can feel that he's with a tripod pressing the button yeah yeah yeah and i think um i think people are nostalgic for a bit of that but i don't i think to your point i don't know if they actually want that the one creator who i think still does a very good job of playing both of those is ryan i think there's no and and anyone who tries to replicate that you can't. Yeah. But he does an excellent job of, as he's built a bigger and bigger business, like he, cause he is still a dude with an iPhone.

25:46Yeah. But he's also scaled his team way back, way back. So it's just him cutting his videos. Right. Yeah. I respect that. Like for the things we want to do now and the brains we want to reach in the way we want to reach them. Like that, that couldn't, that's just not an option for me. Right. Especially with the school, the class crunch labs and what we're trying to do there. Like, And like, I think I do, there's a part of me that is nostalgic even personally for those days, but like, I didn't release a video that I didn't go to sleep at 7am. That wasn't an all night. Yeah, of course. And the whole edit was only four or five minutes.

26:25Samir Chaudry:Totally. Right? So it's like, and I was editing and doing everything myself. So it's like, I just couldn't even do that now. And I, yeah, I think, I think especially, I mean, I could just track it by amount of folks who come up on the street and like what they're saying and parents and kids. And it's like, I think we are reaching more brains deeper now than we ever have. I agree with that. And like that is my North Star. It's like if this idea of like getting self-actualizing and saying like, I can, I'm interested in science. I can do this. I can solve the leaky rain gutter, you know, as like an eight year old.

27:04People like, like that is like such a good sort of metric. And like that, we're doing that better now than we ever have.

27:12Colin Rosenblum:I also think it's easy for audiences sometimes to see the scaling and the leveling up of production as the end of an arc. The end of the journey. this creator has reached the top and an audience can feel like that story is capped but it's really not the case like it's it's still it's just new for where we are in the creator economy and youtube that these people who've been on youtube for so long now are hitting this point yeah and for you it is a new beginning we will go through a similar type of thing like we will change what this show is once we get that private equity and it will look different it will feel different uh and even our audience may have that feeling of like oh this isn't the same as when they used to shoot in their car yeah um but it will be a new beginning and by the way this is just human nature it's human nature we've even had this at our job where it's like when i was when it was me and five people when you bring on 30 people those five feel like oh this is the same i used to have more and then when you bring on you go from 30 to 90 those 30 are like ah we don't have the same access right and it's kind of like dude i like that van before they were cool type of vibes but it's a great point because to your point this you know expansion up you reach a ceiling that even one of our first conversations is mark was missing that intimacy so on certain shoots we pull it back to he's with like three people on some massive videos but if we don't need the footprint why do it and that authenticity and that energy that that intimacy is there but when we do need to do something big and crazy, we will scale up.

28:40But we now look at it as a dial because we do want to keep that relationship and magic that was in those early videos. That's a really good point.

28:46Colin Rosenblum:I mean, like stylistically still, when you watch a lot of the videos, sure, there can be the really grand shot, but there's still you holding the camera, walking around the room at times. Yeah. And like his point, like we will just take phones and it's me and two people. We just did a shoot in Australia and it was me and two people was like the whole footprint. And we filmed on iPhones. Yeah.

29:07Samir Chaudry:I think we mentioned this to Michelle Carey of like something I crave in her videos because they're so cool and so like unattainable for me when I watch them. I'm like, I could never do that. Is like a iPhone cam of her experience sometimes that pops in where she's just intimately talking about how she's feeling to an iPhone. And I think as productions scale up, like that's the thing as we start to, as a group, expand to bigger productions and also to new platforms and new spaces. I think, you know, Colin and I are working on, we're doing this big project right now. We're making car commercials.

29:44Samir Chaudry:And we've been really tasked with like, how do you make a car commercial, but in like a more personal, intimate, like, because the value of what we all love about YouTube as a viewer and as a creator, is the two-way street. Totally. Is the fact that I'm not making something for you. You're a participant in what I'm making. There's a comment section. So that, that I think is important for us to introduce. Cause like, it's all happening really fast. I mean, we should talk about the fact that, you know, again, last time we sat down together, you had mentioned you were working on a big video that was going to cost like maybe three, 4 million bucks.

30:19Samir Chaudry:And it was like, Whoa, like this is, you know, that's Jimmy started doing that type of stuff, but it's not uncommon now for a YouTube video to be in the millions of dollars. But that is very akin to Hollywood and what TV is. But that industry for a long time kind of put off YouTube. I mean, Netflix, I think Ted Sarandos has said before, Netflix is in the spending time business. YouTube is in the killing time business. He's changed his tune quite a bit as he's come over to look at creators. But these worlds have now collided. Yeah. Um, talk to me about how that has felt for you because when guys like Scott back in the day, we're calling you, you were like, I'm not doing these deals.

31:01Samir Chaudry:Yeah. But now, you know, we do see you on Netflix. Yeah. And I think the idea there is like, you know, again, the North star is like, we want to reach as many brains as possible. And you know, we also did a deal with Samsung, um, TV plus. So they're a fast channel for us. And there's just like, currently it's just back catalog it's just videos i've made that are just on the platform like that's what's going it's not like a new show for that so it's like sure like i own these videos we should just like why wouldn't we just you know basically have as many options for people to see this content and then we're doing we are doing a tv show with netflix that i'm really excited about where i take over the school as like the principal and then it's actually down here oh really it's up by calabasas it's by calabasas where the high school is we're filming it in like for a month in the in the early summer and basically like the old principal leaves and gives me the keys and i'm like and then there's we've scoured the country for like the sharpest you know future makers engineers and they come and it's a competition series in the school and i've set up a bunch of like games and traps and stuff in a school that's awesome it's a competition series and the last one gets a full ride scholarship and like an apprenticeship with me.

32:17So to build on that, like the library that Mark's built over these 15 years is premium content, repeatable, great content that can travel across platforms. So we're expanding the footprint with Netflix and Samsung TV plus to get more people to watch. But then now we're working with these new partners. What's that elevation of something Mark might not, Mark would have never done an art competition show on YouTube. It just wasn't part of his plan, but now we are building that with Netflix. And so that's what that partnership's great for. But at the same time, building 11 amazing bangers for YouTube for the year to come.

32:49So did you say banger before Mark? No, I've worked on it coming out more naturally. So natural. That was very natural.

32:56Colin Rosenblum:I've been in this business on YouTube for a long time. It still doesn't sound natural. It took me almost a year.

33:01Samir Chaudry:Took me almost a year. When we're together, you know, Mark, Jimmy, all those creators, I try and do it, but it's so unnatural to say banger. But specifically bangers? Banger is hard. Yeah, it's hard for me. We must not be making enough bangers. I don't think we make bangers. That's why. Yeah, it's not. Once you start making them, it comes out easy and smooth. You have to earn it. Can we dig into that point of why can you not make a season arc like schooled on YouTube? Like what is the first and foremost financially? Yeah. I mean, you heard the money we're spending already on YouTube, which is very healthy.

33:37Right. But to do something like that in that timetable, the price point is different. So it just, it opened up an opportunity. And to Mark's point before of like feeling it, all those things are happening with the Netflix show and all our other content plays. So we are now doing that in this bigger format that is, it's going to be great.

33:57Colin Rosenblum:I think one of the big issues with a season arc on YouTube, there's a couple. One, from a creator perspective, when you're shooting, We traditionally don't shoot 10 to 12 episodes at a time all at once, spend all that money all at once and then go, let's see how it does. We go one video at a time, two videos at a time to adjust, right? And make sure that they're doing well. Yep. And then obviously from an audience perspective, YouTube is there to serve you the best possible next video, which may or may not be episode two, episode three. I think this is a big one. And we've heard that feedback from folks who have seen just my old YouTube videos on Netflix.

34:31it's much more of a sit down and binge watch one after another. YouTube is so algorithmic. Even if you see one of my videos, they're going to serve you something else and take you away from the channel. Netflix is very much, let me watch this and I'm going to binge watch all of them. To build on that, like, and for 15 years, it was one a month. So the rhythm of getting that content was different, even for a super fan. But to Mark's point now, you get that bingeability and we're seeing the repeatability just be fantastic with Netflix. So it's just creating a super fan quicker with this new audience that just had not found him on YouTube.

35:06Yeah. And I think we should point out and like I had this discussion with Neil and I think he's right. Like YouTube is that's where I grew up. It is my first love. It will always be my first love. And I think you can't like we would never, for example, put videos on Netflix if that meant we'd have to take them off YouTube or do something with Netflix or anyone else for that matter. if it meant, oh, now we can't regularly upload to YouTube. Like YouTube is and will always be, and I think it's important for other creators to realize this, our lifeblood. And I think if you ignore that, because don't forget, even being on a platform like Netflix, like they get to choose when, if at any point they want to take you off.

35:46Like the beauty of YouTube is you will always be able to tap a microphone and upload a thing. Yeah, it's the core. It's the core. But this diversification is a good thing too as the world's evolving to be able to reach a billion brains and Mark's ultimate goal. It's great to have these other halo platforms to be able to do that. Scott's a good politician. That was good. Yeah, I see what he did there.

36:07Colin Rosenblum:I want to ask about the point of new audience. And if you feel that of Mark Rober pre-Netflix, post-Netflix, because there are shows on Netflix and streaming platforms that take over the zeitgeist. and in a major way that doesn't always happen the same way on YouTube because so many things are being surfaced on YouTube. Did you feel even in your day-to-day life, there's a bit of a difference? I think the best, best proxy for that is like how many people are coming up to you and stopping you on the street. I'd say it's like, it probably is like a little bit of an increase, but not like, Oh my gosh, I can't go out of the house now.

36:44Um, and you know, sometimes people are just like, I love your new show on Netflix. The, this, this content is so good. And I'm like, you realize it's been on like youtube for like seven years and free and i think what happens is there's just some families or who they they're not allowed to watch youtube but because netflix curated they can watch that there's a massive uh concept here that i think about where uh especially

37:07Samir Chaudry:in content that's good for kids to watch like the value proposition is um time like i'm a new parent now. And my kid doesn't watch TV yet, but when he does, the value of it will be me getting some time back. And that's really valuable. Or in order for me to get my time back, I need to trust what's on the screen. And I think there's this thing that's happening where Netflix, probably to some people, feels like they can trust it more because it's editorially curated. Whereas YouTube, anything could surface even if you're on YouTube kids totally like they do a good job of making safer environments but technically like Colin said it's a recommendations algorithm you're not 100 % in a long session what could get served yeah and pretty soon like your four-year-old's a flat earther doesn't believe we landed on the moon right it seems like you've had experience yeah

38:07Colin Rosenblum:just imagining the flat earthing community coming in that's the only story from this I'm going hard. Guys, if there's a community I feel like we can rally against, can we agree it should be the flat earthers? Why are all you backpedaling right now? For the record, that's Mark's perspective. Yeah.

38:24Samir Chaudry:All are welcome at the Cullinan's channel. Yeah. I mean, we talked to the Dude Perfect guys about them launching their app, their own app. I mean, you know, they did something different instead of going to a Netflix. They were like, we're going to create our own environment with trusted content. Right. And I do think the editorial curation has two sides to it. One, as you mentioned, it's like Netflix could decide we're not going to, we're not going to really promote Crunch Labs or School. Like it worked a little bit, but you know, that now that controls your distribution. But the other side is if they're all in on it, the marketing and the curation of it is very helpful in the even general cultural zeitgeist.

39:00Samir Chaudry:I think that's one thing that as I look at, you know, YouTube is our home. We've been on it for 16 years, I've never spent a week of my life not thinking about our next YouTube upload or my adult life. But I think there is a next chapter of how this comes together with YouTubers making premium shows on YouTube. How does YouTube participate in that? Like, is there a future state where schooled can live on YouTube? You know, maybe. We're actually talking to them about like development of concepts that would make sense on YouTube and what a new model could be. There is nothing yet, but there there's concepts around it.

39:38I think it's more sponsor driven than it is an original funding model. But I do love that, you know, our partnership with YouTube is any, any new project that comes up for Mark, we talked to everyone about it. It's, it's, it's, it's free opportunity moment for both a YouTube, a Netflix, a Samsung, whoever to come. And so we want to have those conversations actually to, to unlock it for them, to your point, because we want YouTube to stay strong to the core, but at certain times it would make more sense on another partner.

40:07Colin Rosenblum:I do think that's their next chapter and their problem to figure out. Just even in the way that content production is moving and the ability of so many creators to eventually create series and season arcs, there's going to have to be a home that's not editorial for it and a way to serve those seasons. No, that's not editorial. Netflix is editorial, so they will choose, but there will be such an influx of people producing potentially shows in season arcs when you think far down the road that if youtube can crack the code and become the place for the democratically uploaded that's right season arc yeah and i think that the the hesitance that probably youtube has and others see is youtube originals was a flop but the youtube original was a flop because it was just too early it's too early right and like creators weren't production studios and you brought these professionals in who were like this is how you make content and it, the audience smelled it out so quickly, but now a lot of the top a hundred, 300 channels like are in some sense production studios and we can do this now and we can handle bigger budgets.

41:12So I don't think it's exactly what YouTube originals was, but some version of that I think does make sense.

41:19Samir Chaudry:I think there will be a version of that for sure. It's to our benefit as creators that the option, if we have a big idea is to turn to YouTube, right? But I think these platforms, at least how I've experienced them as a viewer, they stand for very different things in my life, like in terms of what I'm watching and what I'm craving and what my expectation is on the platforms. I'm curious about your involvement in other Netflix programming, because I think, again, when we talk about cultural relevance, Alex Honnold climbing the Taipei 101 was like a major moment that I turned it on. I couldn't stop watching and I couldn't believe I couldn't stop watching because it was kind of repetitive in some ways of like his climbing was, was, it was like a, like, it wasn't that much of a change of scene, but it was so visceral to your point of like this, the tension of this guy might fall is crazy to watch.

42:14Colin Rosenblum:Culturally too. It was a moment when a lot of my friends who aren't as plugged into YouTube as I am were texting me and saying what? Saying like, Hey, Mark Rober is Are you seeing Mark Roberta? That's so funny. Yeah, this is a Scott thing. And he's like, hey, do you want to go with, and I love Alex. Do you want to go hang out in Taipei with Alex? I'm like, what's the schedule say? Can we do it? He's like, all right, sure, let's do it. And it was an opportunity because I've been a part of major live events before. Nick Willenda, Walking the Grand Canyon, Felix Baumgartner, Drop It in Space. Live event TV is very powerful, as you just described.

42:49And I kind of wanted Mark to get the bug because I think there's an opportunity for what Mark's brand and the Crunch Labs brand is to bring Event Live. And so this was an opportunity to get him into it. And he just he did fantastic. And I mean, the telecast was like it was it was incredible. You couldn't take your eyes off it. Scott's good.

43:06Samir Chaudry:Scott's good. Yeah. Yeah. I got to now just listen to what you're saying, Scott. I'm just listening to how you're saying it. And this is well delivered. Yeah, but it's like he does have a good North Star on like how to keep the brand special and what it is. Like he gets that. Because that's my concern is someone comes in and is like, all right, this is how we just crank this up and burns me out, burns the team out. And, you know, that's like venture capital, right? And it's good for a little bit, but then you don't maximize the area under the curve in the sense that like you spike up, but then everything crashes because you can't maintain that.

43:39And then VC is like, all right, we're selling our stuff and we're out of here. So it's like very slow steady growth has like been my thing from the very beginning And so I don't have a goal like this is in three years We should be this big in four years. We should be this in a decade. We should be this But it's like we're just gonna keep the next steps are always pretty obvious to me Like i i've said I have a really clear one year crystal ball two years It's pretty good three years. It gets a little murky But if you have a very clear one year crystal ball to know exactly here are the next steps and let's just go for these like wherever that takes us is where it takes us i'm not going to artificially impose some goal but what i will say is like every year two years we'll know exactly the right moves and we'll just go hard and then it will land us where it lands but that's what i've been doing for 15 years yeah i should say though on the alex honnell thing i'll just yeah yeah fun nugget for you that guy's wild because like he was we were hanging out the morning up and he's like yeah i'm just i'm so stoked right now because I this morning I was just thinking when I go home there's like this boulder problem behind my house I've been trying to work on I think I figured out how I'm gonna do it I just I wish I was there right now it's like burrow you're about to climb like a 1500 stall building in front of tens of millions of people and he was just like what oh yeah yeah what yeah

44:59Samir Chaudry:yeah of course you know that that's exactly I think the feeling when I come back to talking about those videos on YouTube of like what private equity has done to your favorite channels. Like one of the most incredible things about the Alex Honnold Taipei, uh, event was afterwards people speculating about how much he got paid. Right. It was, oh, he got paid half a million bucks. That's so little, or he got paid a million bucks, whatever it was. Jimmy even, you know, subtweeted and was like, I would have paid him more to do it on my channel. And Alex came out and was like, I would have done this for free.

45:28I thought it was cool. Tess afterwards, me, him and his wife were hanging out in his hotel room and he's just like foam rolling. Yeah. And we were like playing ping pong. In the meantime, the world is blowing up. Like the most famous people on the planet are like, dude, this guy's amazing. And any other human be like, Oh my gosh, look who just posted. Couldn't care less. Like, yeah, that was so fun. Like, cool. Where are we going next?

45:51Samir Chaudry:I think the word authenticity is overused. Yeah. And I think we should replace it with honesty. This concept of like, are you honestly this person? Yeah. And I think when I watch Alex Honnold, even interviews with him, I'm like, he is honestly that person. And we can feel that as humans. Who are you honestly? And I think as YouTube is progressing and as creators are progressing, I think that's what is getting put into question. Is my experience of you from growing up was this person. Now you feel a little different, which is natural. People change. But there's a question of, are you still honestly this person?

46:25Samir Chaudry:Or are you doing it because it's a strategy? Or are you doing it because it works? or because you have to. And I think like you can't fake that for, like I think that's why some people either burn out or it's just like everything fizzles is like, I think ultimately it's that. People just say it just doesn't feel honest. That's not really their core and what drives them, right? They're doing it for other purposes. Yeah, and I think I hear, I just hear the word authenticity a lot and I think it's like lost its meaning.

46:52Colin Rosenblum:Well, authenticity can be a moment of honesty. Like when you capture a video that's authentic, it's because you are being honestly yourself. but being on it like honestly wanting to do the thing has to be a constant i had another science creator who's like very well known who's like don't you just get like aren't you just tired though just like getting on camera and just like pretending you care about these things and i was like what yeah like and i was so shocked to hear this come from this person i'm like not even like that didn't I was it really like stopped me in my tracks and I didn't lean into it like yeah totally I was like not really like I can't I'm a really bad actor so it's like I can't fake that excitement yeah and it's like it's still a super interesting to me and like I am as I've never really been burnt out as we've talked about before and I would say I'm as far as I ever have been from being burnt out.

47:51Oh, that's cool. Right now, genuinely. That's really cool.

47:53Samir Chaudry:I want to talk about your output on YouTube as well, because obviously there's a lot of output in a lot of places. The increase has come from short form, for sure. I feel like Mark Rober shorts are what come in my feed the most now. And this year, we're four months into the year, you've put out two long form videos on the Mark Rober channel. Do you still look at, at one point you were doing one a month. I remember coming up and seeing like your postcards with the 12 videos planned out, which we forgot to blur. I don't know if you remember that. I don't remember. Yeah. You remember? You were upset.

48:26Samir Chaudry:Blur it. Was it the octopus one? We had a deal. You know how many octopus videos came out and beat me to that? Yeah, that's on us. But do you still have like, is that still the goal? For sure. One a month? Yeah. And to be fair, like I always say I do one video a month, but go back and check the last seven years. and it's been last year you did nine videos the time before is probably like eight there's been i really have always shot for 12 that's the goal yeah we're kind of pulling back a little bit on shorts because as i'm sure everyone knows at this point youtube's changed the algorithm where it's like you basically get like two weeks for views and then it dies so sorry neil just not as incentivized to like make content well and the investment because the bar is so high with our videos that the investment is something that we just got away so we're gonna keep doing shorts but it's like what's the right volume but with the algorithm changing what's the dial up dial down is what we're trying to yeah because last year you did 44 shorts that generated 3 billion views oh see i have no idea about these numbers yeah i'm not an analytics guy but it's crazy to see just how youtube is like i mean even now on the app shorts are coming up before long form now So it is that balance of what's the right amount.

49:39And we're also like, what's the bar? Like, we're not making everything a mega science insider, like short. Like what is a more IRL moment with Mark just to make them more achievable to produce quickly?

49:50Samir Chaudry:I actually think my favorite short of yours, and maybe this comes back to our craving for just like hearing about Mark, was the Sidemen Charity Match short where you talked about wanting to score a goal. That was very personal and very fun. It's a balance though, because like one of my strategies on YouTube, because I do really value my private life, is that like I love talking about science and stuff. Very protective about like what I actually do on a day to day basis, because I just think the whole parasocial thing. And I've never like named my fans. Hey, hey, Roburgang, you know, Roburgang.

50:27That'd be good. Yeah. Stop. No, it's like, right. Like I think that whole parasocial relationship, I'm happy to be the guy you look to to get good science content. But like it's not necessary for you to know like what I do on a day to basis or about like my personal stuff. I just don't think that's healthy for me. At least I can say that. Yeah.

50:48Colin Rosenblum:You also don't want to set the audience expectation that they come to you for. Yes. That's what they come to you for. And then suddenly they kind of have power over you in your life and choices you make. Can they get a question, you know, who you were dating or just like what your thing, like that whole thing is like our brains did not evolve to have that kind of relationship with a tribe of 8 billion people. Yeah.

51:11Samir Chaudry:You know, again, you're creating content for a lot of platforms. We're talking about attention in the context of creating a visceral reaction. Yeah. In the context of creating a visceral reaction out of somebody, it feels like joy is a harder reaction to suggest across the internet right now. It feels like anger and fear, tension. That is what's generating virality, right? You have done a great job of keeping your content feel good. But I think if you're in the business of views, the easy path is anger. Scandal. Controversial. Yeah, but I see it within your thumbnails. Not exactly, but the necessity to capture attention has evolved.

52:00Samir Chaudry:We pulled two thumbnails from the channel. Yeah. And I was curious just like - Yeah, I'll tell you about this. That squirrel thumbnail is the worst thumbnail I've ever made. You think so? It's terrible. Like we tried the testing, the CTR was so low on it. Like I've tried cracking that thumbnail, that first squirrel obstacle course. But in the end, we tried up so many things on that thumbnail. That is objectively a bad thumbnail. The content's just really good. And then people remembered, oh, I remember this video. So they click on it. And the squirrel's not a good one to show me there. I think a better one of an old video is like Jell-O pool or there's watermelon.

52:38Watermelon. There's other of my OG video thumbnails that are good. Some don't even picture my face, but this is a really good example of audience. You can now test thumbnails. And we test all sorts of thumbnails. And the ones that win over and over are where my face is big. You know, Jimmy figured this out a long time ago. And if you look at my most popular videos, almost none have my face in them. But that was at a time on YouTube where it was just different. Yeah. And you could make something like that go viral. Now it's a lot harder to get a high CTR on something that like doesn't have, because I think the audience has expected if someone I love is in this, they know to put their face big on it.

53:19I think it's also a different time. I mean, you guys call it the abundance era. I was about to say that. And it's, there's so much now that you need the Mark calling card to go, oh, that's a Mark Rober video. Whereas before there just were as many premium choices of content coming through.

53:31Samir Chaudry:I think we're at a point where it's like, imagine a road trip and you're driving when you see like the McDonald's arches, it's familiar and creates a reaction and you know what to, like, you know, the habit or the, it's the same thing of like on YouTube, you just need the, like your face is a brand logo. I think that's right. I think you're right. And that's also why that is extremely valuable to Netflix. Yeah. Right. Because in a world of even Netflix starting to try and compete for content, they need familiarity. yeah and i think that's also where short form supports this because short form increases exposure like we're living just in this new world of course this happened before this was the hollywood star system right like when there was uh when they jumped from like making essentially a couple hundred movies to thousands of movies they needed a way to signal to the audience why they should come to this movie and it was through stars and celebrities so studios locked down stars to be in their movies to market it.

54:30Samir Chaudry:And it's the same thing that's happening now, right? It's like these, uh, you, Jimmy, uh, you know, the stars basically have the logos that are trusted and familiar and that will bring audience in, in a world of abundance.

54:43Colin Rosenblum:I think even as a smaller creator, it's a good long-term strategy to try and incorporate your face. You know, even when I look at our titles and thumbnails, we're often not in them. We're trying to find the thing that is the most interesting to the most amount of people. Yeah. But I do believe we should find a way to be in our thumbnails. Yeah. Even if it means we will get slightly less viewership right now. I think long-term. You want to build that equity. Yeah. I think long-term we want people to, the abundance era is a great example. That's a lofty concept, but it would benefit us long-term five years from now if we could talk about a concept like that and our face would drive.

55:20Again, to go back to the past, shorts are becoming in some ways promotional content too, because ads got seen more than long form. So it's like, what is that relationship? We're even having active conversations of like, what are shorts that could maybe even push to long forms? Not on the nose, but just highlight it because the visibility, when you look at the metrics, it's very different. What a short will be seen and what a long will be seen. And even with the Netflix relationship, we were very purposeful in naming the show Mark Rober's Crunch Lapse. It is a billboard to the bigger company in Legacy Play.

55:52The original concept was going to be called Mark Rober's Big Experiments. Yeah, I also, I don't like the word legacy in the sense that like, yeah, I mean, what he's basically saying is, yes, Crunch Labs, I want Crunch Labs to be much bigger than Mark Rober. And already, if you look on Google Trends, on certain months it is, which is like, that's my North Star. I don't care about legacy this idea it's like when I'm dead like I don't I don't care at all

56:18Samir Chaudry:like I think about that point often I won't even know I won't even know I just don't care like at the end of the day and I think all of us probably share this here it's like you just want to leave the world better than you found we can all disagree on what happens when you die and like where you go and all that stuff but like that's a great north star and I think to the extent that I can do that while I'm here great and I think we do that better with crunch labs being bigger than me because we could also then elevate more people and more voices. Well, you're inspiring. I mean, that's a billion brains thing that, yes, it's not, we say you're, I say your legacy, but it really is the ultimate goal of reaching a billion brains and inspiring the next generation.

56:55That's what Crunch Labs is. I'm so allergic to that word legacy. I think a better word is just impact. Impact. I like that. Impact is a better word.

57:01Colin Rosenblum:I like that. More so with Crunch Labs than with the Mark Rober brand. That's right. Yeah. You have bigger impact. To his point about Google Trends, the first time Crunch Labs actually surpassed Mark Rober was the weekend we launched on Netflix.

57:14Samir Chaudry:So that's interesting. I wanted to bring that up because Ted Sarandos said there was a spike in Crunch Lab sales when the content went out on Netflix. I was going to ask if that is tangibly different from publishing a Mark Rober YouTube video or why you think it's different. Yeah, I would think, you know, when we launched there originally, it was around the holiday season and like 80 % of all toy sales are done in like one month. And it's like for some people, like we said, it is a new audience where there are some parents, their kids are not allowed to watch YouTube. So it was like meaningful.

57:47It was like a nice bump. It wasn't like, oh my gosh, everything is different now, but like it was measurable. It's sort of akin to, you know, at some point, a lot of my YouTube audience, if you're coming back and watching, you've heard about Crunch Labs at this point, right? So it's a little bit of a fresh injection of some new eyeballs. It's like, oh, I actually, I haven't heard of Crunch Labs, you know? It's a media plan when a when a theatrical comes out a studio looks at okay what platforms are going to be on to push that theatrical to get eyeballs and people in seats by expanding to a new platform we reached a new audience well this is what's great about scott you know how many times has he read his like you know referred to legacy media and and he's right in the sense that like this isn't kind of it's not that new youtube like so much of what's happened before so many times in other media it's just happening in here and he really he has lived that so he's he's crystal ball and a lot of things on that and like doing the netflix live something that like he sees that a lot better than just like my team or folks us who've only been on youtube and this feels so new and fresh where is it headed he's like guys there's a pretty there's a roadmap for yeah this has happened before this has happened before like seven times yeah i think we took a lot of pride i thought about this

58:57Samir Chaudry:recently because when we did that that car commercial shoot we had like a a crew and it was kind of the first time we had these roles of like producer director and and at first i kind of felt allergic to it i was like this isn't how we do things it's like you see it's just the four of us and yeah jesse here that's it jesse uh and like that's how we do things we're small nimble we're creators and i took a lot of pride in that but as i got more comfortable that i was like this is really nice. It's great. I don't have an umbrella guy. Don't wait, this. Just you wait.

59:27Colin Rosenblum:Two steps away from an umbrella guy. We had a production meeting that was incredible. Yeah. Where like producers talking about feasibility and logistics, director is ordering our shots, the things that we're saying that are coming out of our brains. He's figuring out how we're going to do them and checking with the DP over there. Can we shoot it like this? And I was like, oh, okay. Well, a great example of this in our lives is what happened with Perfect Date for the first time in 15 years of the channel. Tear me up. yeah yeah i think it's better coming from you which is that we we yeah for the first time in 15 years we finished a video like two days before we're gonna upload whoa that's great that is crazy in 15 years and that's why you went on vacation like that's the only reason the only way you can do the only way i had a two-day vacation no and it's like the reason we were and we were like under budget right and so i will say for the past two years we have been very much over budget just because i wasn't tracking it of course like i'm an idiot with these things right but now we're actually tracking it and it's not like we were just kind of we'd spend whatever you know just to get the thing done and like the quality is just as good if not better because constraints breed creativity and so if it's like no we don't have infinite money to throw out of this oh let's get clever and then that absolute feet helps it feel more like me and a tripod where i also didn't have infinite money right so not only were we releasing stuff like we're creating stuff before so all our ducks in a row but like we're also doing it like under budget yeah so it's like who would have known but if you bring a little like rigor to the process and an roi like there there'd be moments like okay this thing's gonna cost 75k so i call him i go mark this thing's like 75k 100k like how long is it going on screen is like maybe like five seconds i was like well I don't know.

1:01:17Is it worth the, now there are times something is so important to a scene that it's worth that money. But eight times out of 10, we can be creative with a different solution. And also, can I tell the rat story? I'm going to tell it anyway. Yeah, tell it anyway. Figure out that story. Uh, like I said, you know, it'd be cool is if we taught a rat to drive a car and this is all I said in one meeting. Yeah. And then six months later, then scott joins six months later i was like oh crap i remember saying this in a meeting and i'm terrified that someone took this and ran with it i was like could someone find out where that stands did we follow up with that and where it is meanwhile there was a slack channel where we've hired someone for over seven months to help us train a rat to drive a car and we spent over 65 000 on the training of said rat and and and he sucked in driving the car so we spent more money.

1:02:13I could have bought a sick ass car for this amount of money and the rat wasn't even good at driving the car. If he was good, that maybe still wouldn't have been remotely worth it. We just didn't choose the right rat.

1:02:26Colin Rosenblum:Well, maybe. I think, reopen the Slack channel. Another 65. It inspired another video. It inspired another video. But these are the moments at the beginning where you'd have like, Mark, do you know what this is cost? And he'd be like, what? And I'm like, yeah, well Mark, you say this in a room and that's what happens. Well, that's because we have such a good team. That's like we make stuff happen. But like we just didn't have the others. I hadn't set up the rigor of like someone tell me how much this will. I didn't create that loop. You realize now that this is out in the open. You're going to have to make the rat video.

1:02:55Samir Chaudry:Or somebody else will. Yeah. Oh, no. I hope someone doesn't make that. Hey, Jimmy. I hope Jimmy doesn't spend that money because it's really possible to teach a rat to drive a car. um what's your advice to creators right now competing in this world of the internet because i i find it to be a very challenging competitive landscape right now you know to capture someone's attention feels harder than it's ever been what's the advice you give first it's mostly that that that concept I've been writing about a lot is honesty. Like, I think what's hard is we, we are very aware of what a YouTube video could do to your life.

1:03:42Samir Chaudry:And I think that creates a lot of uninteresting work. Meaning when you know what the outcome could be, when you know that a YouTube video could make you a millionaire or a billionaire now, or make you famous, you, you optimize for the outcome a lot of times. And I think I can feel when I'm watching that as a viewer. So my advice to creators is like, you know, I was in Dubai speaking at this event and a lot of creators were pitching me these ideas. And the only question I would ask back to them was, okay, that sounds cool. Do you want to make that? And it was a hard question to answer. They're like, no, but it's a good idea, right?

1:04:18Samir Chaudry:I'm like, it's a good idea, but do you want to make it? That's to me, that's the only path forward is like, because you have to do this for so long that you have to want to do it. But I think back to like when you uploaded that first video of the Halloween costume, like correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you were aware of this moment. No, actually I did not. Yeah, actually, yeah. And who was the intended audience? This is what I'll say on that, which is kind of what I, this is a version of this I tell creators. Like there are probably 10 ,000 good reasons to start a YouTube channel to make content.

1:04:52There's only two bad ones. And the bad ones are to get rich and to get famous. And when I started making content, no one had any idea that you would get the, you can make money off YouTube. That's a, there's a crazy proposition in 2011. And so it's like, I had this really cool Halloween costume idea and I wanted to be on the Gizmodo. That was like my life goal. And I got on Gizmodo after a day of going on YouTube. I was like, I guess I need more life goals. and so it's like I was like I have more ideas that I was a good feeling so I should just upload more videos and I've essentially done one a month since then and like that I can honestly say as much as everything grown and changed like that the call we were just on talking about which I'll tell you guys after we stop rolling and then we'll do another podcast later when you can say more about it I'll be thinking about that I won't be able to sleep well tonight because of that call and like Like that is still what drives me at the core.

1:05:51Like it's not money. It's not fame. I never wanted to be famous. I don't let people sing to me at my own birthday. Like, that's weird. Like, I love that.

1:06:00Samir Chaudry:That's so cool. That is so me. It's the worst. It's the worst. Why is that a thing? So it's like, if, if your core is that maybe you just want to get better at telling stories, maybe you want to get better at like gardening and you want to share it with people. Like there's so many good reasons to make content, but if it's to be rich and famous, like you're just starting, you'll never be successful you'll never be rich enough you'll never be famous enough and so you're just going to be sad for a very long time yeah because one day you will get like you are now rich and famous just to call it sure right like it's uncomfortable to say it but and to accept it but it's like it's the truth totally and and that is uh like i've known you for these years like you're still excited about a science idea yeah that's that's the the the thing to recognize is success is the opportunity to do more of what you're doing.

1:06:49Yeah.

1:06:49Samir Chaudry:So if you like, if you hate what you're doing and you're doing it for that outcome, like you just going to get the opportunity more, do more of something you don't like. Yeah. That's like when someone's like a character, like the does some funny bit with a coffee cup. And now they're the coffee cup guy. It's like, you know, that's why like I've enjoyed every, like I intentionally will do very, take weird swings in different directions. So it's like, expect to not know what to expect on the channel. And that gives me so much freedom to make whatever, video. Yeah. I was watching back, you know, our, our episodes together and I, I get emotional looking at this image of you, you know, you in the goggles, like tinkering and solving something of how to, you know, not cry when you're cutting onions.

1:07:38Samir Chaudry:And then I thought a bit about the fact that your mom took this photo right yeah and i was curious about you know with what you're doing now like i feel this when i look at my son now i'm like i'm so curious what he's gonna do with his life what do you think your mom would feel about what you're doing right now and where you are today like this beacon of kind of light that you've become in the world yeah i think um I just think it's cool when I think about her. Cause like by far, she was like the most influential person in my life. And it's like, like nobody, none of us, you guys don't, I don't Scott, anyone who's watching this, like you don't know the true measure of your impact ever.

1:08:24And you know, she just encouraged. I just grew up in a household where creativity was totally encouraged. and she like taught me to be a good person and be a good human and like to lead with kindness and you know she passed away from ALS like six months before I made my first YouTube video which is like kind of a really big bummer is one way to think about it but I kind of think it's beautiful because she had no idea like the impact that she not that I like a huge impact on the world, but like there's so many families like that story of parents bragging about their kids either, you know, I love, I was just telling my fiance this cause we get to meet a lot of folks.

1:09:10It's either a parent with a kid and we get to see this magical moment. The kid's like, what? The parents are so proud of their kids that they get to meet me and someone that they watch, or it's a parent without their kid be like, you have no idea how much we talk about, we, you know, you inspire family type of deal. Both those are so lovely experiences. Those are moments that those kids, you know, may remember there for a very, very, very long time. And so to be able to inspire other families to have like that same interaction that like I had with my mom and like have those conversations and to promote households where you can be creative and you can think big and that's encouraged like the impact that could have on somebody's life is just absolutely immeasurable and like that's her legacy and she had no idea that would be her legacy i think that's really

1:10:03Samir Chaudry:beautiful it's really beautiful i love that we can all disagree on what happens when we die everyone's got a different version but like look if we can all just like try and make the world like a better place which is what she did and like i'm just carrying that on and then that gets passed forward like i don't know where that leads but it feels like that's a good thing definitely i definitely think that's a good thing especially right now yeah especially right now yeah that's really beautiful can i ask you one more question sure what's it like like being buff now. Pretty sick. This whole interview I've been doing this.

1:10:48If you've noticed.

1:10:49Samir Chaudry:I think we all have to acknowledge everyone on YouTube has noticed this, right? Like Mark Rober is buff now. Not that you weren't buff before, but like. No, I wasn't buff before. It's been amazing. Like I've been working out for two and a half years now. Like pretty much, I was doing three days a week and then Dax Shepard was like, it's way easier if you just work out every day. And he's right. And then he's also like, what do you do for protein i was like nothing he's like do your 200 grams and so now for like two and a half years pretty much work out every day in 200 grams and like i miss it if i don't work out i love it i love opportunities for mastery and it's such i could do a dexa scan i can track this like i love having a goal and just like working especially with working out you can't fake that you can't fake you can't buy yeah muscle so it's like it means you're putting in the time right was there

1:11:36Colin Rosenblum:a moment, an inflection point for you of, okay, I'm going to take this really seriously? A motive and a reason for that?

1:11:42Samir Chaudry:Was it because you did that shirtless pool short? You were prepping for that? It's more like, no, my brain is really weird where if it's like, I will set a goal, I don't even know what motive, just one day. I think I was like, oh, one day I wanted to enter my Jeff Bezos face because remember Jeff Bezos got ripped? I was like, one day when I'm 50, I want to get really ripped and then all of a sudden one day I was like, why the hell would I wait till I'm 50? I should do that now.

1:12:09Colin Rosenblum:Yeah. And so then that was literally it. And I have worked out like every day since then. Wow. I need that. I was asking if there was a moment cause I'm waiting for mine. I was like, when do I get to be buff version of me? I remember talking to Jimmy about it after like one year of working out.

1:12:22Samir Chaudry:He was like, I asked him what he was most surprised by. And he was like, I'm surprised about how long this takes. Yeah. You know? And it's true. It's, it's really just a practice. It's not, there's no shortcut. I actually think it's one of the most interesting lessons about life. Cause it's like, it teaches you that you have to do a hard thing every day and you will not see the results that will happen very incrementally, very gradually. And then also if you just stop doing that thing, you will revert back pretty quickly. Yeah. You know, it's kind of like, it's such an interesting life lesson.

1:12:53Samir Chaudry:And there's definitely a correlation between people who have a discipline of fitness and success. Yeah, that's probably true. Yeah. I think my favorite quote is like the greatest gift life has to offer is the chance to work hard at work worth doing and i think that's like something about working out and fitness is like really epitomizing that but that's also like what we're doing not just with our work but you know you guys are both parents now yeah i think that applies there it's just like it's a good north star like not working is it like i can never retire right like the idea of going and like living on a farm somewhere reading a book all day it's like i could do that for three days i like to work and that was again instilled in me my mom i was doing chores there.

1:13:34I was helping with dinner. She didn't make dinner. Like she made everyone like participate. That was instilled in me at a young age. And I think if that, that is such a great gift to have in life to enjoy work and the outcome of hard work.

1:13:46Samir Chaudry:I truly take incredible pride in being your friend. And like when my nieces and nephews watch, I love saying like, I know him. No, you don't. I do. I know. I swear. I swear. Watch this video. And when people talk about YouTube, you know, I've been an evangelist for YouTube creators for my whole life just because I'm so passionate. But I think you just represent again at a time where it's hard to capture attention with good, with joy and good. You do it so well and you've built an organization to do that. so just to express like my own like i feel very uh a sense of a lot of pride and i think all of us as a youtube community are just very proud of the the channel you've built and the what you put into the world that's very nice and i've scott knows like i feel the exact same about i'm talking about you guys all the time just like top tier when i first saw you at um i remember i think i came up and told you guys when you presented at like one of the youtube things yeah It's like, you guys are just so freaking smooth out there.

1:14:49Colin Rosenblum:Just smooth. I remember going up on stage because we were in a room full of top YouTubers. And I don't know if at that time we fully understood what this event was until we realized we were on stage hosting. And I'm like, that's Mark Rober. And there's Rhett and Link. And there's all these faces. And it was just like, okay, better performed right now. Because this is definitely their first introduction to us. I remember meeting you after and you complimenting us. So just everything about you guys, I was just like, geez, these guys are polished, like in the best possible way. I'm also proud of you guys, of just so many of the YouTubers, you know, the new ones that like what a cool thing that like a total meritocracy.

1:15:30Totally. Like no one picked us. Like we've just kind of figured it out and like created a new sort of industry. And now the world is kind of noticing and it's like, yeah, we did it. Like how cool that we did it. and they ignored us at first and they said we were lame and no one wanted anything to do with us. And now slowly, just like we knew it would, because nobody under, you know, and we knew we

1:15:54Colin Rosenblum:liked it enough, no matter what to keep doing it. Yeah. To keep doing it. That's a hundred percent true. So to kind of like get that vindicate, all of us is like, nice guys. Cool. Cool.

1:16:04Samir Chaudry:Scott, we're also proud of you. Yeah. Just close the loop here. Yeah. Make sure everyone gets one of those. Just like us three. Specifically us. I was early in acknowledging it. Three of us here who people should be really proud of. Well, thank you guys so much for joining. I mean, I'm excited to see Schooled. Yeah. It shoots in the beginning of summer. When does it come out? Pre-production now. And we're working on premiere dates. Great. But soon. Great. Awesome. Yeah. I'd love to come. I'd love to come check out the production. Oh, for sure. Oh, please. Oh, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's going to be like 200 people on set.

1:16:37It's going to be bong. Wow. Ubrellas. Umbrellas for everyone. My umbrella person will have an umbrella person.

1:16:45Samir Chaudry:That's so good. Well, thanks, guys. Thank you. Thanks. Awesome. Thank you.