Nick DiGiovanni: From Harvard Dropout to YouTube's most watched Chef

32:41And then, boom, we get into it. And I really don't have… Any script. I don't… Like, I can't… I'm not an actor. I really can't act. If you gave me lines right now, I'd butcher it. Right. So, there's no script, as you can tell. Yeah. And what's great is you have a excellent formula for storytelling, which is a bunch of ingredients, watch them turn into a finished product. Yeah. There's like a transformation of visuals that tell the story. Yeah. But yeah, it's a very short line in the beginning that's like reduction is really hard in writing. Yeah. So writing that into such a concise opening is challenging.

33:20Yeah. Yeah. Did you catch the butter now? Yeah, yeah. No, no, no, I did. I was just like wondering, you said you'd only use it once. And as I was listening to it back, I was thinking where else could it go? And there's actually a lot of moments. You could have said, but he's the worst chef I've ever seen. Yeah, exactly. You could have said at the very end, but he has to do it all by himself. So you did actually intentionally put that tension point in exactly the right place. Yeah, it sounds like such a tiny minor thing, but really it's not. I think it's super, super important which area you end up choosing to put that in.

33:51and it just it all has to sometimes for when i'm leaving feedback and notes on on the videos with my editors i'll write like you got to just like step back for a second and listen to it i'm it it is sort of like a song a lot of the time in the sense that it has to flow and it has to everything has to line up together and and feel like it's smooth and moving along and sometimes if you just close your eyes and and and listen to the pacing i mean at least for me i can tell even if it's, I will say like trim this by a few milliseconds or that kind of thing. And that bothers me a lot if the pacing is at all off.

34:24But it's important too that I choose the right words to say or it just, it makes it even more difficult or maybe impossible for it to really flow, you know? Who manages these productions? Like you even just talk about like how like the windows sometimes are, sounds like two months plus. You talk about having a team of editors. Yeah. Well, we don't have, we don't have a, we don't really have a producer. um i've always liked it really pretty tight and quiet so for this this will be of context for short form it's still just me in the kitchen with the camera and the food and i run back and forth and i film and no one's allowed in the room that's for short form you handle all of it yeah yeah i mean like someone edits it and no i just don't like anybody yeah i get it i actually i totally get that occasionally now with collabs and whatever i understand why people would have to be there but otherwise if it's just me in the kitchen and studio at home it's just me in there and I don't want anyone else there.

35:14Because that's how I started. Have you become obsessed with like lighting and cameras and making sure it looks perfect? Because all of your shorts are incredibly like at this point, well lit. Yeah. Production seems really high. I'm just dragging lights around on my own. I'm not like, I wouldn't call them fully professional. I'm not, I'm definitely not a lighting expert. But I leave the windows open. I'm still using the natural light, but I'm using it a little bit better than I used to. I'm actually mixing the natural light with normal lights, which you're not like really supposed to do. I've heard at least, but the camera I can understand really, really well and I can use that and now I get it.

35:48And I've learned all that stuff. So that was just context to say, for that stuff, I like it really quiet and that carries over to long form in the sense that we really don't have too many different players that are working on each video. So I have one guy on my team is kind of my right hand who helps. We strategize all day long. We will call in the morning. We'll call late at night. We pretty much talk 24-7. And Zach ends up traveling with me a lot for a lot of these shoots and things like that. And so that's definitely who I talk to most for the production of the videos themselves. And yeah, I mean, outside of that, we have just a couple more members of the team who might work on different individual parts of the videos and pulling it all together.

36:35But mainly, it's a pretty core, small group. and everyone kind of knows who they are and they work on different things all the time. And we have a great small team. So it's not overly complicated. It's just me and one camera guy usually on the road for some of the stuff you were just looking at. And that's why it can be so cheap. And then the editors are all remote. Remote, yeah. Got it. And you're giving feedback in frame. Yeah, yeah. It's a small core team. It's a small team, yeah. And we're definitely, you know, we stretch ourselves out as needed, but it works. And I just, I prefer it that way.

37:08but your shoots it's just your one camera guy who's shooting your stuff for a lot of this stuff yes like for the next three videos it's mostly just me and one camera guy that's it no producer no really nobody else on site just two of us because your kitchen stuff looks really good meaning nick's kitchen like the second that's more that's that's a totally separate production we'll get there because that that is really premium yeah yeah that's different that's different it's cool man i think actually what we've seen as a commonality is there there is a correlation between like small teams and outsized returns in terms of like output yeah and viewership right now and i'm mainly thinking of ryan trahan like i think ryan has has done a great job with the tight-knit group yep but it is interesting it's like less stakeholders it's less just barriers it's even when you're shooting your short you're like it's just gonna be me i'm just gonna shoot yeah that resonates a lot with me it's like it's only you to shoot a short because even in here, I mean, we don't have that much team, but I, I find myself getting like nervous or self-conscious if I'm like filming in the middle of the room and trying to do lines or something or get something across.

38:15I mean, I was on a shoot recently where, with, with a brand where like someone had to walk in to, to, to like move the cutting board. And I'm like, I'm standing right here. I'm going to move my own cutting board. I'm moving my knife. Like I'm going to pick up and move my knife on my own but like someone technically was supposed to come in and was the only person in the room that was supposed to be moving that stuff and i was like this is so slow like i'd wait for this person to come across the room and obviously like that's just how some of these productions work and that's just historically how i think some of this has worked but i cannot i can't i can't do that yeah i really can't think about how bizarre like and i think this is one of the challenges that we continue to face with like the world of now streamers wanting to get into the world of youtubers right so like a netflix or amazon prime video like they want to engage i have to assume you've gotten offers or talked about that stuff yeah yeah we've talked about some of that stuff for sure but but but in that context like they are so unfamiliar with the fact that you are the production company yeah like you'll go make the thing to them you're the talent i think they're now catching up to this right especially prime video i think watching jimmy do it it's like okay we get it he's a production company yep so like that is a pretty tangibly new thing that's like we're gonna work with nick but nick's not just the person on screen he actually would hold a camera and he can no i love behind the scenes like i yeah i mean i i love working on all the i i actually think that it's it's hugely important that i remain a part of the process from a to z just because i think if i start to cut out too many of those parts and and sort of delegate or hand it off to different people i just think that you i mean then kind what's the point in all of it like that i i started out doing all this stuff because i loved it and and i feel like i i i can take a bunch of my creativity and just put it into these projects time out time and time again on these videos so if i am suddenly so far away that i just don't even know what's happening anymore i don't think they're going to work out the way that yeah that i want them to anymore so i like being a part of it sometimes it's a lot but i mean i'm still happy that i'm super involved in every single video.

40:20So how many shorts do you put out? You said like once every three weeks you're putting out a long form video. Yeah. We post a lot of shorts probably once every three days or something, but we also now have multiple different channels. So I make shorts for the other channel in this kitchen that are more like true, simple cooking techniques. And then yeah, it's on average, it's probably once every two to three days across the different channels now. Yeah. Once every two to three days across the channels, you're putting out a short. Yep. And so your production process for shorts, are you like sitting in a room and you and Zach are going, here's the videos we're going to make?

40:53Or is there like an evaluation of that's a really good idea, but that's not a long form, that's a short form video? Yeah, we have just tons of lists of different ideas that we just constantly sort of go through. But I feel like the shorts end up happening more often than not just kind of on the fly nowadays. Like maybe, so you said earlier that I could just sit in a kitchen and just keep everything there. and a lot of cooking channels do that for their whole career on YouTube. And that's totally fine, actually. That's what a lot of those people are there for. They just want to see a recipe and they want to be able to replicate it or they just enjoy sitting back and watching it.

41:26So that's great. I just find that it feels so stagnant if I'm stuck at home too long. And there is just nothing like getting on a plane, even though I hate flying, and going to any place. I mean, I'll easily cross 100 flights this year too, which is the craziest part. It's like funny, but it's also for me, it's not. It's like, well, I just have to make this choice. Do I want to travel or do I want to stay in the kitchen at home? And so there's nothing like going to some new place, whether it's Ecuador or Japan or some – we just did the Southeast Asia trip, right? So going into some outdoor market during the middle of the day where nobody else there speaks English and just walking around and seeing all these crazy new foods that you've never seen before, even though I've seen a lot of different foods, right?

42:15There's nothing like that. And I can't learn that at home. I can't grab one of those fruits and rip it open and taste a little piece of it and just experience this whole new thing. Can't do that at home. And so I feel like when we do these trips, me and Tim will go to places like this, my camera guy, and we'll just see something cool like that. And we both immediately will look at each other and be like, nobody's going to have seen this before. Let's make a quick short. Boom, we bang it out. And then that's that. So a lot of them happen that way now, which is pretty cool. It's just super organic, like on the go, on the fly.

42:49It reminds me a lot of how Bourdain would talk about traveling with his crew and the reasons why it was good was because they kept the crew for a long time incredibly small. And he never wanted to do retakes too online. So he would say like if a producer came in and was like, hey, could you actually say that again? He would get like angry because he would say no. And it feels like you have a lot of these components outside of the fact that you don't like flying. that would make a really good travel show. Yeah, for sure. In some ways, of course, you have a travel show. You're traveling a lot on YouTube.

43:19You're trying to do a travel show. Well, yeah. Every time I've been approached, funny enough, by one of these big streamers, I've actually pretty much turned around to all of them and said, like, I really think it'd be great to do, like, the next version of Bourdain and show the new generation of people who love food and cooking the rest of the world. And I think it's just one of those things that maybe doesn't sell all that well right now or they don't have a lot of new ones. Interesting. But whatever. I just, I keep doing it by myself. I don't really care. Yeah, I guess the question is like, yeah, you can just.

43:45Yeah, I just do it by myself. You can just make it. But what's so cool about what you just said is, I mean, when it comes to Bourdain, it's not that I even, that I don't want to redo lines. It's that if someone misses it on the camera and is like, can you just say that one more time? I always, they know not to even ask anymore because I can't say it with the same enthusiasm and youthful excitement that I say it with the first time. Like I said, I can't act. So I just can't, I can't get excited about like seeing the fruit again. I just, I'm, I can't, I don't know what to do. Yeah, totally. So, yeah.

44:19So the short where you're showing how a pineapple is cut in India. In India. Mumbai, yeah. Is that one that happened more on the fly? 100 % on the fly. So bring me through like, would you see it happen? And then like, how are you capturing it in a way that like you, you are now making a short all of a sudden? Yeah. So I'm like putting myself back and walking into that market. but we walked into this market and then I remember on my right as I'm walking by there's like these couple guys sitting sitting on the floor cross-legged with a million pineapples sitting around them I was like that's so cool that's crazy I've never seen as many pineapples but also there was this really interesting looking long knife which is like a it almost looked like a blade you might do a straight edge shave with or something and uh and then they had a couple of these already cut pineapples and I'd never seen them cut like that before with those little it was like a spiral staircase down the whole pineapple.

45:11And they removed all those little dots that you get there that are still kind of embedded in there. And I'd never seen that attention to detail on a pineapple before. So we just thought it was really cool. And we literally just, I think we had someone there with us that was kind of a translator and was able to just say, hey, could you do mine if they film and can you just do one on camera? And the funniest part to me sometimes is like, they have no idea that this is going to go up on. Well, they do because we tell them we don't ever go in like you know anyone that's cool with it will film right but at the same time they have no idea that it's just going to go on to like a channel and possibly get 10 or 20 or 30 million views like in a couple they just don't know and um we try to we definitely like i said try to explain that but i think there's this crazy irony of just the fact that like there's this really cool unique like art to whatever it is that this person is doing and sometimes i i do think that we're we're we're the first people ever showing it which i think is really fun and really cool like i just i love that i think it's amazing um i think it's why too just one camera or a small crew yeah is infinitely better than 15 yeah because you're getting access yeah oh yeah people are comfortable last time we were in japan we filmed a video in the fish market in japan which um you can't just go and walk into this fish market it's like you have to basically you can really only go in there if you work there, but we, we, we've been able to get in a few times.

46:39I go every time I'm there, I wake up at three 45, I go spend like four or five hours walking around. It's the, it's one of the best things I have ever done in my life and will ever probably do for, for me at least. It's like, I'm a kid in a candy store, even though it smells a little bit like fish and there's just live seafood all over. I, I'm obsessed with it. Right. And we went in there last time and we asked this guy, is it okay to take a couple of videos and make a little video? and he said yeah just do it subtly and don't you know if anyone gives you a look just you know know that you shouldn't probably film towards them and they told us when we were in there that a couple days before netflix had shown up and i'm sure they had those like yeah cameras yeah and they just told them to get right out and turn around and so there's a really classic example of in that moment i was like well this is amazing what we what we get to do is this is a this is a really cool bonus to what we get to do and a nice benefit to yeah i mean you think about even ryan And like Ryan shoots a lot of his stuff with his iPhone.

47:31It's awesome. And a tiny mic. And like that is so disarming if you're filming with someone. I forget who this was, but someone was telling me they were somewhere and they brought their camera and they were filming. And the guy said, no, you can't film here. And they said, can I film with my phone? And the guy said, oh, just your phone? Yeah, go for it. And the iPhone shoots 4K. It looks phenomenal. Yeah. I understand it, but I also don't understand it, right? Like I think eventually the iPhones are just going to get so good that maybe we could just like, they already are really good, but the sensors are just different than the cameras that we use and stuff.

48:06And I do think it's so ironic that you can literally go anywhere and use an iPhone. And then you bring like even the tiniest camera and they're like, get out. It's like, just doesn't make sense. So what I wanted to ask about like the, you know, once every three weeks, you're already planned to the summer. You have a long list of long form video ideas. how do you like green light a video idea if you're like investing that type of time and money into it if there's such a limited slate of what comes out on your main youtube channel in a year yeah what's the what's the i understand the short form right because it's kind of lower stakes you can shoot it with your phone or you can shoot it with the camera and go quick oh we see this thing this pineapple is super visually engaging let's shoot a short around it i have this short idea when it comes to like a long form youtube video every three weeks you just have a limited slate so you have to be more decisive of what you're investing in.

48:56So how are you choosing, like as the programming executive of your channel, how do you choose what gets greenlit? Yeah. I mean, and it's a great question because the stakes become higher and higher and higher. You can't just go and spend 50 can of video that makes back a thousand bucks. It's just not possible. Like you can't do that. And so realistically, I think it's just, part of it is when I know, I just feel like I know now, and I look at this idea and I'm like, for these reasons, I think this video is going to crush it, right? And if you picked out any title of one of my videos and asked me why do I think that that would, you know, do well or why do I think it did well, right?

49:35I could tell you a long list of why I initially greenlighted that idea. Like, some are very obvious, right? Like this Mr. Beast one coming up of the cooking challenge versus Mr. Beast. That's obvious. It's Mr. Beast and, And, you know, it's a fun video. And it's a format you've done before. Yeah, exactly. So that one's easy. But, you know, for so many, it's, I think, I just try to think about the really the big, the big, big picture. And also, can I have fun genuinely telling the story of this video? Like sometimes, you know, someone else on my team will approach with an idea. And if I'm not overly excited about it, I think we all know right away, it's not going to work and it's not going to be a success because I can't I I just I have so much fun making these videos and I can't go in and just it would be like acting it would be like me going in and acting and I can't do it yeah so I I think it's like this combination of so many things and um and if if if I feel really strongly about it and if Zach then feels really strongly about it and then I work with my my one of my brothers actually now who who has done a lot of the kind of more international pushes that we've done and if he feels like oh yeah this is going to be great for an international audience now too.

50:46If all those things, if all the stars align, then usually I feel pretty comfortable pushing it forward. But I could, it would be easier to sort of tell you very specifically, like with this concept, why do I think it's going to do well? And I can just give you a list. Got it. You know? Is there a concept that you have that's coming out in the next month that you could tell us that's greenlit? Yeah. I mean, we have one coming out soon that's called I ate the world's best street food. And like, I think that one's really cool and really unique because it's actually almost the total opposite of me going into like the fanciest restaurant in LA and spending$2 ,500 on just my, you know, serving it and knowing that people might appreciate and watch that video because most people just are never going to or can never get a meal that expensive.

51:30It just doesn't make any sense. Right. And so the reason I would do something like that or have in the past sometimes is because I'm, I sort of feel like, okay, I'll spend the money. I'll go do this thing and, and I'll show some experience that no one else can really access or maybe really wants to. And, and that's fun. This street food one is almost the opposite. This is like, let's go to these street stalls all around the world. And a lot of the food is going to cost somewhere between one and$3 and us dollars. Right. And show the people cooking it and show the new ingredients that people have never really seen before maybe, and show the different cooking techniques or just the, the setting that the, the, the street food places.

52:08Like one of them was on a, one of them was on a boat. Literally it's like rocking all over the place while the guys are cooking in there and they're handing it off onto the shore. Like coolest thing ever. Right. And I never heard of this before. So that one is cool because the setting is different every single time. It's in a new location. It's in a new country. There's fire. There's like, there's just all sorts of actions that are involved in it. There's quick chopping. There's lots of sounds. There's all sorts of crazy different flavors and ingredients. And so that one for me is like the hard work was already done when we thought of the concept.

52:41Like it's already all in the concept itself. I don't have to think too hard about it. Why not title that around like the cheapest or like some other superlative of, because your most popular video is around like cooking food for the heaviest. Yeah. Right. Sumo wrestler. Yeah. And so it's like, there's a lot, obviously on YouTube, there's a lot of like cheapest, most expensive. Extremes. Extremes. Yeah. I mean, I don't, yeah, I, I don't have a great answer for you on that one. I just more, I feel like we pick titles now and we stick with them. We haven't changed a title for a long time. Wow, that's nice.

53:14Yeah, we don't change titles that much anymore. Maybe thumbnails, but not titles. So I just try to pick the simplest, simplest thing. And I don't know. I also try to think about like what might people type in on Google because obviously they go so hand in hand. YouTube and Google has search engines. So I don't know. I don't overthink that part of it. I feel like, wow, that must be nice. I think too, though, you're, you can pick that title because I also think you're at a point where because of your reputation, you've built the trust that with a simple title like that. Yeah. It's not going to be you just in, oh, I went to LA, New York, and San Francisco to eat street food.

53:54Sure. Right? Like, I bet you there are a lot of videos titled, ate the world's best street food. And it was like, they went to one place. Yeah. Yeah, that's probably true. And I think there's now this understanding with you, and I imagine the thumbnail alludes to where you went. Yeah, I think this is probably at least between 10 and 12 places. Yeah, and it's all around the world. And it's really cool. Yeah, I mean, it starts in Iceland, then we move to like, I don't know, Singapore, Malaysia, Vietnam, Bangkok. We're all over for this one video. Which is wild, because you just mentioned like doing like a Bourdain-style show.

54:23That's essentially a… There it is, yeah. That's like, in a sense, right? Yeah, certainly. I mean, yeah, yeah. He's probably someone who's irreplaceable, but like doing this. He's irreplaceable. I'm just saying the parts unknown concept of like you're going to these kind of more remote places and trying their food. Yeah. Yeah. I want to get your reaction to something we saw in the r slash cooking Reddit. Okay. Subreddit. I'm not a big Redditor. Is that a term? Redditor? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So. I think. I think. Oh. Yeah. Okay. I would imagine. We'll find out. So you're talking about right in this video where you eat cheap food and you're going to 10 to 12 different countries.

55:01It's this whole thing. There's fire. There's a lot of action happening. And the post in r slash cooking is titled, What Happened to All the Big YouTube Cooking Channels? And it has almost 5 ,000 upvotes, 3 ,000 comments. And it says, The last year, pretty much all the big channels and cooking on YouTube have seen a massive decline in quality content or content in general. And then one of the comments, one of the reasons that this person gives is he says, it's the algorithm. Now these channels are needing to put out more content with bigger titles just to get half the views of three years ago. And he brings up some Joshua Weissman titles of like every spicy chicken sandwich between Korea and Mississippi.

55:40Or Babish, you know, says has to rank every potato chip dipped in every dip ever. and just this idea that, you know, now cooking channels have to go to such lengths to feel like they are getting viewership and fitting in almost with the YouTube algorithm rather than maybe like reaching cooking purists and enthusiasts is the argument. Yep. Oh, I was just, by the way, I spilled water all over my shirt. So if you guys can just edit this out for the rest of the video, that'd be awesome. You could probably really scope that. Yeah, just edit that out. um i yeah that's really interesting the really funny part about it is that this year we are yeah we also created that second channel so i've put a bunch of time and money and energy into this nick's kitchen dude i've learned exactly that yeah i've learned how to cook something on next that's great well that's the goal my wife sent me the orange chicken one it was like you gotta cook this it's really good yeah it looks insane when you cook it so it's such great orange chicken I want you to explain it, but my vantage point from the outside is like your main channel is like entertainment.

56:46It's like entertainment with food as the basis of the entertainment. And Nick's Kitchen is like a cooking channel. Exactly. Yeah. So did you sort of feel that a little bit as well? Like, oh, I have a desire to get back to the sort of food purist in me? Yeah. So I think a lot of people have said this, Ray, is like cooking shows are dead and, you know, all this stuff. And I definitely think it is probably true that with how much is being posted on YouTube now, you really need to get crazy sometimes to get eyeballs. Like, you got to—people are doing some wild things online now, right? It's true. Like, how am I supposed to get a bunch of views making a waffle if, like, some guys—you know what happens on the internet now.

57:31So— If some guy's breaking the world record for the biggest waffle ever made. Exactly. and consumed in the least amount of time. Yeah, seriously. I mean, it's crazy to see some of the stuff people are posting. And so the reality is, you know, if they can go and watch something else and something else is going to be more fun, then why would they ever go and watch that? And so I think that is true that like the really slow and kind of, I don't know, the slow and sometimes maybe a little bit boring cooking videos, especially with, you know, now there's Door to Action, Uber Eats and all those different things.

58:02So a bunch of people have stopped cooking and just opted for that anyways. And you can also go to a restaurant and all these things combined together, like these different things that make it easy to not sit through a 30 minute video on how to make orange chicken. I think it has all contributed to probably overall, maybe lower viewership for that stuff or just making it feel like lower viewership because, you know, you see a lot of other stuff getting crazy high viewership. So yes, it's really hard as a creator, as a food and cooking creator to defend spending a bunch of time on making an orange chicken episode when you can go and break the world record for the most chickens ever broken down in 60 seconds.

58:45Like that kind of thing, right? If I know that this is going to get 10 times more views, then why would I make the orange chicken? Like I'll make more money. Arguably, it's just maybe more fun, right? There's a lot of different reasons to do it. my philosophy now is just why not just do both right i mean i separated them kind of very clearly i have my main channel you know that's all food entertainment like you said yeah then we have then we have next kitchen and it's classic simple straightforward recipe and i know for a fact it's not going to get the viewership that the main channel is going to get like i know that as as hard as i work on this next kitchen channel it's never going to get the viewership that my main channel is going to get and i'm totally fine with that i've accepted that but it also may be even more meaningful to the core audience that's watching those videos and from there we can create we have a really nice recipe website now that you can go on and i mean there's a lot of different things we can do with this it's a much more mature brand yeah nick's kitchen is like a brand that that feels mature it feels more similar to when i was growing up like what a what a professional chef what their brand would look and feel like it's very polished it's polished and but it's polished but it does bring a different twist to cooking content in that again back to the orange chicken video like one thing i noticed is how fast it moves but it doesn't move like fast in a way that the robber video where things are flying at you or there's different cuts and there's graphics it doesn't move like that it moves at like uh again it all feels mature yeah and uh i find it to be so interesting because i am constantly surprised i have like you know pretty young um nephews granted their dad owns a restaurant so he's really into cooking they love your videos and like they're like my nephews love you they love your videos i mean i'll tell you now like and i would never have expected this from the start but like it's hard for me now to meet a kid who doesn't watch or like the videos which is crazy to say which is cooking yeah yeah but they're also like they're like they only want osmo salt and it's like that is 10 years old yeah that's crazy and he just wants osmo salt it's amazing i mean it's cool to see that kids are getting pumped up about cooking right but it's interesting that you've kind of spread the the the brand now where nick's kitchen can you know can talk to like people in their 30s yeah there's no jokes there's no craziness there's no none of the editing is going to punch you in the face while you're watching it right it's it's it's straightforward it's simple it's something that my grandmother would have probably enjoyed watching yeah actually well one of my grandma does still she wasn't the one that that did a whole lot of cooking but she she she probably watches it sometimes and then real like nuanced tips like you're cutting the chicken and you're like oh i put a cutting board on top of the cutting board to cut the chicken so then i can move that and then use this cutting board.

1:01:38I was like, that's like a nuanced tip to give. Yeah. For how you cut the grape tomatoes by putting the two lids, like between the two lids and you go straight through. Yeah. Like you said, that's a really simple but fun tip that's easy for anyone to think of and remember when they're at home next time and they know, okay, I don't have to get all these nasty chicken or steak juices into my nice big wood cutting board that's impossible to clean. And I can just use this little small one on top and throw it right in the dishwasher. Like it's a quick, simple, fun thing. And that's the goal. the channel.

1:02:08It's like simple, beautiful. I love the look of the actual, you know, we, we, we spend a lot of time on the lighting for this and making the food look gorgeous. It looks amazing. It looks really great. It looks amazing. It's a very polished look and like, yeah. And the website and everything about it to me feels like very, very mature. It's awesome. I'm losing a ton of money on it. Really? A lot of money. But you also like, now I guess we can explore like the broader, you know business ecosystem of what you're doing because you you you said like you're not a brand deal guy which i find to be really interesting yeah yeah i mean you can see i don't i'm i don't I don't remember the last brand deal I had in a long front video actually.

1:02:50um so if it's not the brand deals if you're saying no to brand deals because i imagine people are reaching out yeah people yeah of course yeah i mean i mean most of the time unless you find this perfect synergy with a brand where it really doesn't take away from the content of the video and allows you to maybe do something bigger or just work so well most of the time i feel that the brand deals are just you know they if not done right and tastefully they're they take away from the video. I mean, that's not a crazy thought by me. It's not a novel idea there, but I just try to not put that many of them in there.

1:03:23I'd have to imagine though, in your category, that there would be, whether it's like cookware or knives, there would be stuff that's additive too. I'm just really picky. Or Viking, or like, MasterChef does that at every turn, right? Yeah, they have a lot of stuff. Immediately, the camera's turning and zooming in on the Viking cookware. It also does slow down your process and change your process for your team, right? Like you already said, your time is limited. You're doing a lot. You're moving. I'm just hyper picky on that stuff. I'm ultra picky. What's the biggest deal you've said no to? It was close to seven figures.

1:03:55And it was just under seven figures. And it was something where I was going to be charging people to see all the content. And I just didn't want to do it. Got it. I just was like, I'm not. The whole point of YouTube is that you don't have to pay to watch the videos. so this was taking your content off platform no it was new content it was new content it was for new content that was going to like live somewhere that i would just it would be like a small fee but i'll tell you this i don't even i i don't even pay for youtube premium if i open my computer or phone right now you'll see the ads on there like i still you're a man of the people man of the people um people make we share a youtube premium account so yeah you do okay well that's fine you share it so it's like but i still have the ads yeah i just i didn't want to make people pay for it that's the entire point of yeah yeah what youtube is like you can go and watch a free video on anything at any time so it's like about seven figures and i just i i actually didn't even think about it i actually said no or to an earlier figure and then they came back and doubled or tripled it and then we didn't do it as you can see all my stuff's free still so that's good interesting yeah yeah but i know this is obviously all in the in the context of like you saying that nick's kitchen loses money quote unquote oh is that or you're not sure that it's possible it's losing a lot of money actually loses a lot of money oh it's losing a lot of money i can show you it's right it's a lot of money it's what do you mean you can show me oh i just if i showed you a statement and showed you my adsense you'd see that there's a i don't know 150 000 difference or something okay yeah yeah or more than that but here's the thing nick's kitchen is like very evergreen content right like how to cook a steak or how to like you're choosing titles that when you talk about google search like these are titles that yeah will live on for a long time people will find these things for a long time yeah no these will be great i think in the long term it'll it'll be good but every yeah i mean right now every two months that we film it's probably burning uh it's burning in in the low six figures of money it's just a lot it's it's like a huge investment to make but i'm making that investment because i believe in it so much and i just think i i i mean i think it's an awesome thing to do just create this like really high-end premium it's like okay to lose money to give something that you believe your audience wants that you also like to do for yourself like if i can afford to do it why not you can afford to do it because we all started out making things and losing money anyway yeah right because your broader business is not losing money no and i'm also spending the time like i would argue that the amount of time that i'm putting next kitchen into next kitchen like i i would at this point to me that's that's worth more than even maybe the money that we're losing right now the amount of time that i spend making the the show and the videos themselves so i i care about it a lot i'm doing it because i'm really excited about it and i want to do it there's no there's no hidden thing in nick's kitchen that like i'm getting out of it it's just i think it was needed on youtube to me though a i think it's needed on youtube b i think it validates you as a chef yeah it's great because the thing is if you if you're only an entertainment chef yeah it's a great point i don't know that i believe you when your cookbook comes out or when your products come out i mean even to get back to bourdain a lot of his insecurity as he started on the show was that he was no longer a working chef and was losing touch with just yeah what it's actually like to be yeah you could he always sort of felt like he wasn't like a valid yeah so i mean it's funny i call it there's two different things i when i'm on the main channel we're filming for the main channel i'm maybe cooking something for for one of the videos i call that cooking and when i'm cooking for nick's kitchen i call it like cooking cooking like i'm actually cooking and i have a lot of fun i get into this like fun mindset and zone and i have a blast filming these episodes like i have so much fun i'm learning all the time when i make them i go in there i'm just cooking like that's it there's no script at all for that we come in with nothing and there's just the food the the food's there the ingredients are there and and i don't really like much prepped out like i just want to do it all on camera there's really not there's there's rarely any movie magic there where like there's a swap out or whatever that's if there's a birria for four hours like we'll put a prep one in before that's it everything that you see on there i'm cooking it i'm having fun that's cooking cooking for me and like that's where i'm like in in the element like back when i was working in a restaurant during college and sweating and having a blast with it it's like that's that's what that is for me now so i love it is that an important identity piece for you like to retain that yeah i mean there's this really weird kind of thing where i feel like for sure so many chefs that have earned that really earned that that chef title or like at least earned it in the traditional sense of like grinding through those hours in the kitchen which is one of the hardest things ever like i i haven't even scratched the surface of it i've worked in And the amount of time I've worked in restaurants, it pales in comparison to any of these people out there that are just grinding day in, day out, going into a restaurant, doing all the prep, working all night long, sweating so much that when you drink water, you don't even have to go to the bathroom all night because you're just so dehydrated.

1:08:59And then getting back home at like one or two or even later in the morning, it's a crazy grind. It's really, really difficult. And I've only just seen like I said, the basics behind that. so i have so much respect for that but yes i think on the other hand like when i'm making these videos when i'm making can i turn rober or like trahan or mr beast into a master chef like i need to know how to cook i need to know what i'm doing obviously or the video just again there's no acting involved not i don't think any of us any of these people i'm naming or you you or me are our actors i'm a miserable actor yeah truly if we made a play right now nobody's gonna watch it because it'd be the worst thing that anybody's ever seen watched me try and i got like i can tell the story if you want yeah go ahead okay so we originally we worked in one room so everyone in the entire company was in the same room and our set was right in the middle yeah and out of nowhere in the middle of the day samir's on a zoom call and he's talking with people we don't know what he's doing and what we find out is that he is auditioning for a Lexus commercial in the middle of the day via Zoom.

1:10:09And they ask him to basically like open the door and look out the window startled. And so they ask him to do it. He does it. Yeah. And they're like, have you done it yet? They said, whenever you're ready. They said, whenever you're ready, go ahead. How did you reply to that? I said, oh yeah. Okay. I'll do it. I'll do it again. man now mind you i get dm'd by a director who's like hey i love your look this is like a hollywood dream right it's like i love your look i think it'd be great for this lexus commercial i'm about to do i was like amazing now on zoom what happens i thought i'm just i thought basically i just acknowledge also how insane it is to not tell all of us and do it in the middle of the day in the center of the office listen i didn't want anyone to think it's a weird move i didn't want anyone would think i was like timberlaking and just like going off on a solo career so i thought i actually think it was and the impact was worse yeah because the perceived was like oh wow he's gonna do it right in front of us and go off into hollywood so he's gonna land alexis commercial and we'll never see him again i thought i was just getting on zoom with the director so i get on zoom and i'm in a zoom waiting room and this woman goes you got your sides and i was like what do you mean what does that what does that mean what do you mean and she was like you're doing the scene outside the restaurant and i was like what and she was like it's all good they'll tell you and then i get put into a new zoom room with 15 people oh and then they go hey can you back up and stand so we can see your full body and that's when everyone looks around and is like what kind of call is he like what is samir doing yeah what kind of call is he on what are you auditioning for and seriously they tell me to do it they explained to me the scene because i was like i don't have the sides explain to me the scene and i do it and they're like whenever you're ready and i was like I was like, then now I'm You might have to just go close the laptop So then I do it again but I try and make it like more exaggerated and then they just go again, they were like is that it?

1:12:10You good? And I was like, yeah I'm good. Are you guys good? Is that your best? They were not good No, they were like, alright, we're good. Thank you so much. We'll reach out Didn't reach out? That happens. That's alright Thankfully we have YouTube, you know What were we talking about? Fluffernutters or something? before this yeah before this that was like an hour yeah yeah you're lost in a time warp oh i haven't listened to anything yeah yeah okay yeah just that was the last thing i heard you say yeah

1:12:39um it was about your relationship with being a chef oh yeah that's it there it is yeah the identity of being a chef yeah yeah no you're not an actor that's all you said no i'm not an actor i think there is this kind of strange thing where it's you know it's a very contested title i think or historically traditionally it's a it's always been this title that maybe only one person in the kitchen has and it's a harder thing but but realistically just for what for what i feel like i do now like it's the best representation i'm going into the kitchen basically every single day and i'm cooking and so i and and you know i'm i'm i'm directing what's going on in my in my own kitchen like i'm i'm so i you know it's kind of a tricky subject for sure like it's it's but i'll say this there's probably multiple different types of chefs right and so i've carved out my own little niche yeah and and you know a lot of other people have this like very incredibly hard title of something else entirely um but yeah it's it's all to say yes i i need to keep those skills for myself sharp and I need to constantly be, you know, I need to be training all the time to, to, to keep up.

1:13:53That's it. Yeah. Yeah. One of my favorite celebrity chefs is Matty Matheson. Nice. And he has his Matheson food co. He's an actor on the bear. He has a YouTube channel and he also has one, if not multiple restaurants. Yeah. Very well-rounded. Yeah. Super well-rounded. Would you ever open up a restaurant? I haven't thought about it too much lately. Cause I feel like for me right now, that would be so limiting for what I think we can hit. And so, I mean, I've focused a little bit more and increasingly I'm focusing on Osmo, which even though that's just 3 ,000 Walmarts across the US, that's at least a start and I can get something out there to a lot more people than I would be able to if I just had this one standalone restaurant in Boston to start right now.

1:14:37That said, if something came along that worked out perfectly, similar to the cookbook i think i'd put a lot of passion and excitement into it and um but right now i mean the cookbook's another great example we're i in like the next couple days we'll basically have been number one on gourmet cooking for for two years straight with the cookbook which is awesome on amazon i should say sorry wow and so yeah that's crazy wait you're the number one cookbook on if you look on amazon right now best-selling cookbooks and gourmet cooking where we've been one for two years as of the the for two years straight we i mean we've moved to two maybe once or twice and then jumped up but on average we've been number one on there for two years straight since we launched and so that's really cool and that for me is again a much larger impact than i could make with opening up a restaurant right now and so i'm trying to think a little bit bigger than that uh i also know how difficult it is honestly that's the other side of it i know how hard it is and i just i think my efforts right now are best used elsewhere you know i'm i'm surprised maybe i shouldn't be surprised but i'm surprised that people still buy cookbooks i mean i guess my wife buys cookbooks all the time like yeah it's a great gift it's a really good identity piece yeah right it's hard to imagine a kitchen without cookbooks yeah i mean it's like almost like saying your cookbook has like almost 3 000 reviews yeah it was awesome yeah what are you saying it's almost like it's almost like well it's almost like saying like i'm surprised people still buy normal books like and don't just you like you could go on the on the computer and go on there and yeah i actually thought the same thing at the start like i was a little hesitant should i do the cookbook or not but i'm so happy that i did it and again the reason i bring that up is because i think that that has a much larger impact than yeah opening up a restaurant for me right now where i'm at on a monthly basis what's like your viewership either across all the channels or maybe just main channel like if you were to estimate yeah i'll estimate uh because i don't look at the analytics a crazy amount believe it or not i don't have any social media on my phone either that's one thing that i really took off like probably three years ago now yeah i just i'll go on instagram on the desktop computer once in a while to check in and i'll go on youtube on the computer once in a while but i don't so you don't have youtube studio on your phone no no no no no that's so healthy it's great yeah see that's why i did it look at how happy you let alone look at my face he's so happy yeah happiest guest we've ever had yeah yeah i get that a lot i i would say across everything yeah i mean i would say now it's pretty confidently even i would say it's hovering probably around 750 million to a billion views a month on on everything so 750 to a billion views a month yeah do you have a sense for like how global that is well i mean yes because the more that i've traveled globally i'm like oh my god i can't walk around vietnam without taking a million pictures in the day that's crazy that's crazy yeah like i think our top languages in the last little bit for youtube viewership have been uh spanish has been definitely crushing it and then vietnamese and then uh korean has done well um and i want to say french and maybe one or two others so i mean i just yeah i can see it now while i travel so obviously like when you're reaching a billion eyeballs in a month or 750 million eyeballs in a month launching a product is you have such a competitive advantage in the market right of course like you have your own show that is a major if it was on a network it's a one of the biggest shows of all time yeah um so how has that translated into like sales of a product whether the cookbook or to now osmo with the seasoning brand yeah i mean the cookbook was pretty crazy um i it's crazy to think that so many people just have that sitting in their kitchen also just on their counter or whatever and i'll have kids come up and have the entire book marked up like a million different book marks in it and different things which is also really cool that's cool so people are actually no they're not just buying it to like look at the cover and have it as this little vanity thing in there it's people really use it which is great uh that that the success of that was amazing i uh certainly better than i would have would have thought and i was sort of surprised too people still buy cookbooks to be honest with you but they do yeah i don't know why i'm surprised my wife does it all the time so no they buy them i mean i have i have a lot but it you know uh and then and then for the other side of it for the seasoning for osmo we just totally tried to change things up with that quite a bit and just just set it up better for the long term so i felt like initially we tried to make this sort of more premium like fancy or whatever glass jars that kind of stuff and then for me it was just too expensive like way too expensive and just like there are too many parts of it that i didn't really like and so now i want to make it i want to make it a little more fun too so we we have now i have i have some in my backpack i remember too if you want to see yeah i could show you them if you want yeah i would love to like if you grab the chicken one for instance if you just taste it dry it's by the way really awesome like it just i i love i i love it but they're in plastic jars now um they're i don't know they're just more they're they're more affordable but they're also you shouldn't have glass in a kitchen like i don't know why i was so dumb to put stuff in a glass jar like i know i know that from working in kitchens that you should never have glass in in any kitchen and i put it in glass jars at the start so like i can admit that that was just why should you not have glass in a kitchen because if you break glass it just shatters and shards everywhere it's just not a smart thing to have in a kitchen here you can just puck it all through oh you're gonna walk in okay yeah thank you oh where's the chicken one i like the chicken one a lot it just smells so i'm ready to try some of this so this is an expect because like you started with just salt and pepper right or no did you start with more than just sorry guys i'm making a mess here i spilled water everywhere all right So this is the Osmo Golden Gourmet Blend.

1:20:44Perfect for chicken. It's a little heavy. That's something you need. It is heavy. It's a bit heavy. I'm into all of it. Yeah. You should take some of these guys home. Okay, that's too much. That's a lot, but it's not going to be overpowered. Don't eat all of it, maybe, but like… Oh, that's delicious. You can tell that that's going to make chicken exciting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's exciting. Right? That would make a lot of things exciting. Yeah. This is really good. It's good, right? Mm-hmm. So… All right, I'm going to move straight to that. So this is fun because…

1:21:11So many people can get these and then go back home. And I made the blends. And had a lot of fun making the blends. And like this is how I would season my chicken. This is why I made them like this. And so I think… Wow, that's delicious. That's really good. This one's really good. It's great. This one's crazy good. Yeah, it's great. I hope this is not a diss. And you can cut it if you feel that it is. What I call you Wonder Bread or Wonder Boy or Wonder Bread Boy or something. Get me once. Yeah, it's fine. Go ahead. This is not meant to be a diss. but the chicken flavor tastes like top ramen which I love chicken flavor top ramen it's delicious well what that is is like all those different ramens and different things will have some kind of MSG these don't have MSG but what they do have is that same flavor profile that'll want to make you keep eating it here's how I'll speak for maybe a little more elevated palate than he has than Wonder Bread yeah to me it tastes I'm sorry I'm sorry to me it tastes like to me it tastes like a broth or like a stock like a dry broth sure which is what he's trying to say and by the way i think you have a more elevated palate than you're getting credit for i agree i can understand it's just a different side of the coin like it's all food i do think wonder bread is one of the fun more fun nicknames that i've heard you can run with it yeah that's fine yeah yeah now i feel compelled for us to get on a group chat and i'm going to send you guys what I make for dinner at night.

1:22:36I think you need to know that like, yeah. This started direct to consumer, right? Yeah. Like this started as like e-commerce. Yeah, yeah. So you were just selling this on your own website. And then we took the leap to Walmart not crazy long after that to just make a big push in there. I think, you know, Walmart's seen the success of, yeah, they're good, right? Like you can understand when you taste them. It's actually really good. Yeah, it is good. It's pretty different. Yeah. But sorry, I was cutting you off. So you use e-commerce and then Walmart stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But today, like, I would assume, considering your cookbook is crushing it on Amazon, these are available on Amazon.

1:23:10Yeah, yeah, they're on Amazon. They're on TikTok shop. We're kind of putting them everywhere. You can get, like, a nice big bundle now. And in terms of the pricing, I've really pushed our team to make it, like, as realistic as possible. I think the bundle of the five is, like,$22. But don't quote me on that because we've just only put them on. But I think the bundle's around, like,$22 or$25. And is this, like, a partnership with a seasoning brand? Or is this your own seasoning? Yeah, we built it from the start. Oh, wow. Where does the lion's share of the revenue come from? Like if you were to break down where the revenue for your whole ecosystem, is it AdSense primarily?

1:23:45So it's primarily AdSense. Yeah, I mean, if I wanted it to be brand deals, it would be brand deals. But I would say it's now probably pretty close to an even-ish split between AdSense and brand deals. But it probably leans a little bit more towards AdSense. Because if I do a brand deal, then usually they're on the larger side because I just, again, am pretty careful and choosy with those. And I would still say it's probably AdSense, which is kind of crazy for a channel of our size at this point, but that's how it is, yeah. And this is not yet like revenue positive. No, this is just a totally separate thing that I've been honestly focused mainly on the channels and just trying to get those as wide-reaching and large as I can.

1:24:30and then this is for a while been sort of an afterthought and now it's going to hopefully shift up to be right alongside the main videos. There's also a reality that Osmo probably fits in way better to the Knicks kitchen audience than it does to your main channel audience, right? Of people who are really there for utility. So if you did want to integrate it eventually, even if it's a smaller audience, it's a more focused audience. That's definitely true, yeah. I'll probably spread it across both and realistically, like, there are seasonings that literally everybody out there could use in their kitchens at home.

1:24:58So I think hopefully it'll apply anywhere. But you're right that it fits more in line with the idea of gourmet home cooking for sure. So when you sit down and you're like, oh man, this is where I'm trying to get to. Where do you feel right now you're trying to go? I don't usually plan that far ahead, honestly. I really don't. Part of why I like this job so much and this path that I'm on is because every day is so different. and you might get a call, you know, I might get a call tomorrow for something that I would have never imagined. Just, just like you guys and a lot of YouTubers out there. And I really like that.

1:25:38I like that no day is the same. I like that. I don't really know what's going to happen next month or, or next year. Um, I have a general sense and that's just like this core belief and kind of basic idea that I just want to make really fun food videos that get other people all around the world excited about food and cooking and that's it and as long as i keep doing that then i'm going to be happy and hopefully everyone watching the videos is going to be happy but i don't have some master plan hidden somewhere i just have more of a sort of a general map in my head of like where is everything at right now and you know i have some ideas on where where certain things could go but i'm also very much open to things kind of shifting as we go along you know what does it take to become the the biggest food channel on youtube well specifically probably 33 million subscribers okay like that who's number one right now uh i think it's i think it's so the next one the next one above us right we're number four right now uh in terms of subscribers the next one's village cooking channel they're in india oh yeah i almost they're they're made a video with them they're awesome they're awesome i love that channel they're they're they're number three and then and then two is bayashi who's like a really good friend of mine he's in japan and then number one is this guy zach choy who it's more of just a fun mission to like you know get our subscribers to rally behind trying to catch the the top channel but i i don't i don't it doesn't change anything day to day for us right now if we're not number one on paper you know you may not know this but are you number one when it comes to viewership yeah yeah that i'm pretty that's clear confident yeah yeah but but i just think we think it'd be fun to of course yeah yeah you know who doesn't want to be number one across the board right yeah right i mean why not yeah if you're going to be doing it what was it like what was it like to pass gordon ramsey oh nothing really happened i just i just passed him and you just passed him it's not one of those don't have that type of relationship like where you can rib him on that no he definitely actually said a few nice things he said we were talking about some other stuff but then he said congrats on all the youtube numbers he put a space between you tube um which i love great stuff thumbs up so like he definitely acknowledges it and it's and it's um but it is not a person that i'm gonna rub in passing him and subscribers it's just not a good okay not a good move you know what i mean yeah understood understood he's cut me in half with a knife whatever i just don't want to best it feels like the college coach you're still a little bit afraid of it's just not it's just not you know i'm level of respect you don't cross the line very happy with him on my good side you know or i'm very happy being on his good side has he given you advice as like because obviously he's probably today in the world of entertainment like one of the most notable entertainment chefs right without a doubt yeah i mean i think he'll go down as the like he's the greatest of all time yeah he's like hall of famer he's the guy he's he's he's i mean you can name the the best athletes out there that you want to name people still contest them but he he's the tom brady of he's the tom brady of of cooking right content and entertainment without a question uh yeah he's definitely he's been a great mentor i mean he wrote the forward for the cookbook first and then we shot with him um a little bit ago in new york and when he walked in i think my the rest of my whole team had never met him and i think they all were commenting after he left that he has such an incredible presence like he he walked in and i think my camera guy went over to put a mic on him and he was like no no hold on hold on like I just want to talk to basically like I want to talk to Nick for a second and then he just jumped on the counter and I think was just like asking a bunch of stuff it's actually remarkable how much he can remember like asking about my parents and my family my brothers everything and then you know asked me a few questions of basically basically asking if I needed advice on certain things knowing that I might be at least in some similar path in some ways to where he was a while back and gave a few nice pointers and then we shot.

1:29:33So he's definitely a great person to look up to because the other thing is I've met a lot of TV executives and different people over the years that have all sort of said a similar thing in the sense of like they've shot with a lot of people and Gordon's like Gordon is the top, like just awesome guy, easy to work with, really great entertainer, the full package. You can also feel how like adaptable and open he is and how he's embraced YouTube yeah right like that not a lot of people from the traditional world have just gone like yeah all right I'm gonna do I'm gonna go I'm gonna figure this platform out and I'll collaborate yeah and I'll collaborate with people and I'll explore and yeah yeah I believe he has over 25 traditional television shows and meaning he doesn't need YouTube but he understands it and he's very good at it and yeah he he's yeah he I mean he's unstoppable he's I don't know if and when he's gonna slow down he's not looking like he loves the game he just signed multiple new TV shows.

1:30:26I don't know what he's doing. He loves the game, man. That's amazing. Back to Marquez. Marquez said to us, the basketball players who make it are the ones who love shooting hoops in the park by themselves. It's just like, if you like to shoot hoops, you're going to shoot hoops. I don't know how he does. He's doing these Ironmans. Last time I got to go back and judge some of an episode. I got to go back and judge part of one of the seasons of MasterChef with him. I was in his green room and saw that he was making some nice green juice in there so maybe it's the maybe it's the green juice maybe it's probably the iron man i don't know what it is but something is letting him just keep going and he doesn't seem like he's going to stop so it's pretty cool to see and it's very inspiring you know i'd love to be doing what he's doing when i'm that age it's looks like a lot of fun you know yeah so i was going to ask you like what do you what do you hope to be true about your career 10 years from now like what do you hope is is true i mean i hope that i definitely hope that I and like I hope that I never have to come play this back and look at me saying this in a negative way but I really hope that I just at least stick to the core values that I've stuck with this whole time like I still won't do some I still won't do certain things online or take certain brand deals partly because I know it's just not the right thing to do or the right fit but like because I know that my mom will get mad at me later if she sees it or things like that so like sticking to that just basic, you know, core family values and the way that I was raised to just know right from wrong.

1:31:53I hope that I at least in all that I do just stick with that. Otherwise, honestly, I'm just I'm I'm taking it a lot of the time, taking it day by day, having a lot of fun with it. I see things definitely shifting kind of more clearly into these two parts, which is food entertainment and then more serious cooking recipes that are replicable at home for home cooks who just want to have fun and cook. And I want to keep going down both of those paths. So as long as I can keep doing that, not burn out, enjoy what I'm doing, and then stick to those core values, I would call that success. Yeah. That's cool.

1:32:31All right, dude. Well, thank you so much for sitting down with us. Guys, thanks for coming. This was awesome. And thanks for all the seasonings. Yeah, no. Take them home. Make some good food with them. We'll start a text thread so we can text you what we make. Love it. For the record, I cook often. So I will be sharing some of my meals with you guys. alright thanks guys yeah