The YouTube video that broke Hollywood

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1:10Try it for your research. Try it for getting variations of your titles, your ideas. It's one of my favorite tools on the internet right now for our creativity. And now back to the show. In September of 2023, Wesley Wang uploaded a YouTube video called Nothing Except Everything. thing. And then his life changed. I got into some film festivals, most of the major ones rejected me. And then I was just like, fuck it, let me put on YouTube as like a last resort. It went viral. And then Darren Aronofsky saw the show on YouTube and he literally cold emailed me. The email just reads, watched your film.

1:42Can you drop out of Harvard? I replied like I've been trying to find a good reason to. As you saw today on the show, we're going to be chatting directly with Wesley to hear about how he sold this video to Sony Pictures. So the news just broke that I'm going to be writing and directing the film under Sony Tristar and Darren will be producing. And later on the show, we are going to hear from Lucas Shaw, who's the managing editor at Bloomberg News, to get his take on if this is a one-off or if this is part of a growing trend of YouTubers taking over Hollywood. I was curious if you could give us just a high level of what the current state of Hollywood is and like how the film business is going.

2:18I'd say chaos or anxiety.

2:29So before we talk about why this video blew up on YouTube and speak directly to Wesley, I want to thank the sponsor of today's episode, BioSites. BioSites is a link in bio tool from Squarespace. And because BioSites is part of the Squarespace family, it's a very easy to use and very premium way to put all of your work together in a singular page that fits in a link in bio. It was incredibly easy to design our bio site. All I had to do was upload an image and it actually generated a color theme based off of that image. But I did want to take it a step further so I got really specific with all of the different colors and fonts that we used.

3:03So as a creator, it's really important that people get a full picture of what you do and they also know how to reach you. You never know what could happen. You could sell a movie to Sony Pictures, who knows? So the way we set up our bio site is we have a mailing list up at the top where you can actually get one of our free resources, our five rules of thumbnails, in case you're interested in that. We also have our YouTube videos there, a link to our course, as well as merchandise. One of the coolest things about BioSites is you can actually add monetization directly to this page. You can put a paywall on links, sell products directly within your BioSite, or even create a tip jar.

3:37BioSites also offers analytics like link clicks and page visits, so you can get a sense for what's working on your page and adjust accordingly. So if you're a creative and you want a premium link in bio that represents your brand, BioSites is totally customizable, easy to use, and free to set up. Just go to biosites.com or click the link in our description, and check out our bio site. It's linked in our bio. All right, let's talk about what made this YouTube video pop. So first and foremost, it stuck out in many different ways, including the thumbnail. Yeah, the thumbnail has this lo-fi feel to it.

4:10It does not feel optimized to YouTube, and at the time that this video was released, that worked in its favor. But to take it a step further. If you actually like from the moment you click on the title thumbnail, it brings you in very much like a YouTube video. It does not feel like a movie where characters are talking to each other. It feels like the main character of the short of this YouTube video is speaking directly to you. Quick, think of number one to 10. Yes, you, all of you in the audience right now, or maybe it's just one of you or four of you or a hundred of you, depending on how successful this movie is, Whatever.

4:46Just think of a number one's 10. I mean, the breaking of the fourth wall is fantastic, looking directly in the lens. And it kind of reminds me of, there's a creator named Sean Does Magic. And he does some of this stuff where he does almost this exact same style of trick on TikTok. And it goes really viral because it's like, for the people who are like, oh, that's the number that was in my head. It's a crazy experience. This is a really smart way to open a film. Is it seven? Chances are I'm wrong. But for about one out of every three of you, I just blew your goddamn mind. Yeah, and it's an unclosed loop.

5:18Yeah. The fact that it's a three out of ten chance that you would choose the number seven and not one out of ten is what's bizarre and strange. So you're like, okay, I'll keep watching. It's important to say that it is about Gen Z, made by Gen Z, for Gen Z. Yes. There is like an audience match here. There's no meaning to any of this. there's no meaning to any of your shitty follow your dreams valedictorian speeches or virtue signaling we live in a society like this is a coming of age film that we've seen before right and wesley is excellent at evoking this emotion this is reminiscent of you know 10 things i hate about you can't hardly wait perks of being a wallflower like there are comps for what this is And I think every generation, when they go through high school, I know I felt like this, you have this feeling where you want a representation of what you went through.

6:13And you're like, that was my experience. And I think with the pandemic, this intense collective experience, Gen Z has had this moment that's like bound them together to go, we had this experience. No one else will get it. And here's a movie that represents that. like you think about the term viral video, the concept is like a virus that's spreading, right? And if it has a population to spread to, then it's going to work really well. And if it's like this like beacon of light for Gen Z and for high school students, it's such a targeted audience that it has this possibility of spreading. The next thing I will say, and we spoke to Wesley a little bit about this, the two main actors in the short have a combined over 2 million Instagram followers.

7:03And they've been in other more traditional roles before. Totally. And he said they made some reels that did help, but he said it wasn't like a drastic sort of thing. And I totally believe that and understand that because you don't result in 4.5 million views on YouTube without getting into like browse and suggested and giving people a YouTube experience that they like. I mean, look, yeah, the thumbnail has Lily Chi in it, who's a popular social media creator. But I also think that when you evoke this type of emotion out of an entire generation, there is a high likelihood that, you know, you have the initial bump from these two actors who are in it, but then it's going to start to get shared.

7:46Like if I'm in high school, I'm probably sharing this with all my friends. When I saw this video, it immediately felt to me like it was part of the YouTube New Wave movement. you know like the the natalie lynn's the ryan ing's like the the crew that is it's a kind of like turning youtube more into slow filmmaking and um you know good writing like there's there's something life of rizza like yeah life of rizza those creators do a lot with a little and they capture a very similar vibe and emotion i think the question that for me this was almost like oh what if one of those creators just spent a year on one video they're probably capable of this and I imagine that that movement of the YouTube new wave was looking at this video being like, oh, wow, cool, YouTube is still a place for this.

8:31But he is not your stereotypical YouTube creator. And you're going to learn this when, you know, we play our conversation with Wesley. But what he made here is not sustainable. It is not a YouTube video for someone like him. The cost is high for someone like him. The amount of team, the amount of time it took. this is not a solution for a successful YouTube channel. But it resonated. It has 15 ,000 comments. It has 4.5 million views. And it resulted in him becoming the youngest director ever to have a movie set with a major studio. And that's what's interesting and what we get to the bottom of when we speak with him.

9:08Well, Wesley, thanks for joining us. Obviously, today's the day some news broke about your film. I'm honored to be interviewed by you guys. I've been watching your stuff for a while. I was really particularly inspired to see Mr. Beast's Amazon show and everything. It's such a cool time for creators. And just I think your show is so relevant. So I think it should be like getting way more like buzz around it. So honestly, I'm just excited to be here. Well, tell your people in Hollywood. Yeah, let them know. Let them know. That's what I'm trying. So yeah, I just don't get why the bridge hasn't been bridged.

9:43You know what I mean? So that's one of my goals. Yeah, among many others. But that's like a, I think it's a, it's a symptom of a larger problem that I think exists in Hollywood. So if you take us into the moment of like pressing publish on this video, like what was your expectation of what happened next? And when did it start to take shape where you were like, oh shit, something's happening here. So it was, it's funny because I literally thought and me and my girlfriend were like, well, how many views is it going to get? We're making bets. Right. And I was like 40 ,000. She was like 80 ,000. And this was like after a year.

10:15Okay. This wasn't like a day. Right. And it turns out it got like 40 ,000 in a day. And then once that happened, then I knew things were changing. And then people started like, like emailing me and DMing me, like people from Lionsgate, from like, you know, UTA. And so it was pretty wild at that point. But the same people that I was sending this film out to, I was submitting it around and to producers, but no one would take it. And so but after the film blew up on YouTube, everyone started coming back. And so that's another interesting thing, I guess, when they see the numbers, it's almost like a priming, like there's some kind of psychological validation.

10:46and they're like, okay, this film might be worth it, you know, to watch. Yeah. I remember when that video hit, it was, it's, it's funny. Cause it was so different that it got shared so much. And it was almost like this, um, it's like this moment in time right now on YouTube where when someone puts that much effort into something, but it's not optimized for YouTube, there's inherent curiosity, right? Like, it's almost like this art of filmmaking on the internet that has been lost and is starting to come back. Because like, I'll say that, like when we first started on YouTube 12, 13 years ago, like our desire was to get the deal that you just got, right?

11:23But when we first started making on YouTube, no one took us seriously. Like anything uploaded to YouTube could not actually become a Hollywood film. Yeah. And it's fascinating to me that we're now at this point in time where like that is something that can happen. That's pretty crazy. Yeah, people, I've here now, like I have a bunch of general meetings and luckily because of this film and everyone's telling me they're on Reddit searching for even some short stories like this IP that they can just buy. Literally just 500 words that they'll pay a million dollars for. It's ridiculous. But I think it's not ridiculous.

11:56That's what I guess what I was going to say. I think it's actually a good move and smart move. It's just reflecting what people want to see more. You know, look, at the end of the day, a lot of these studios are trying to attract people on the internet. You know, like whether it's going to Netflix or Macs or something, like it's everyone is making videos for the internet. They're at varying lengths, varying complexities and varying budgets. But at the end of the day, right now, most people are making videos for the internet. I'm curious about some of those conversations with studios and like what it was like to be in those pitch meetings.

12:30Like what was important to them? What wasn't important to them? Like how did you feel as a storyteller in those meetings? Yeah, those pitch meetings were really the crux of like everything I would prepare in the mirror for like hours before um it would be really really intense like they'd grill you on everything you tell them every single thing that basically happens in the story except you make it very streamlined and not everything that happens in the story so it's like a very it's a very difficult balance of like what to include in everything so in that sense you just have to be very good at storytelling which I think just comes with like filmmaking you know you're you it's not like you're telling a movie but you're telling them like why you should make this movie and and that comes with not just the story but also like yourself.

13:08Like you have to make sure they like you too. So it's a, it's a difficult balance for sure. Yeah. Did you have any sense of imposter syndrome in those rooms or did you feel like really confident? Um, I think I've had such a hot streak that I'm just like, okay, I think I could do this. Um, but maybe that comes off as super arrogant. Um, but I love that. Yeah. How do you even get to the point where you knew how to make the 12 minute version of this? Because I watch it and it's incredibly technically sound. I know you said you had a producer, uh, at the end when the credits roll, there are a ton of people involved.

13:38How did you even get to that point? Because I feel like a lot of people, when something like this happens, you see the headline. And a lot of people assume, especially at your age, this is an overnight success story. It's easy to obviously market this as an overnight success story. And I want to say a lot of it was just luck. But I think a lot of it was also, I started very early. I think I was lucky and fortunate enough for that. My parents, they weren't in the film industry or anything, but they valued education. They also had me play chess a lot. So when I was a kid, I was actually a very competitive chess player.

14:08I was an 11-time national champion, six-time All-American. So I was actually going to go pro for chess for a long time. But I found a way to finance my movies through teaching chess lessons. So that was actually a big help. And then I was, yeah, I just kind of, it was obviously very small stuff. So it didn't cost that much. But it was just learning through YouTube, actually, and just learning. I went to some summer camps as well for filmmaking and just trying to, like, grow my craft. And so I made around, like, 21 shorts before nothing except everything. And then you did an Indiegogo campaign to finance that, right?

14:39Yeah. That was also a good amount of the budget. Yeah. So it was like$13K, I think. What was the total budget for it? It was$45K. $45K, wow. Yeah. Okay. Which is like part of it came from Indiegogo. Where did the other part come from? Chess lessons. And then, yeah, that's it. It was like one other private investment. So chess lessons is like a good business. Yes. It's very profitable in like Long Island. There's a ton of kids that like want to play chess and they're like, yeah. So I feel like also from a, from a storytelling perspective, like when you're pitching a film or when a, when a filmmaker like yourself, like there's probably a lot of, um, there's a lot also to you being the youngest, like to be able to have that story is really cool.

15:21Yeah. And then to have the inertia of like, I was, you know, I raised money on Indiegogo for this and then I put out the YouTube video and then like to, to have people follow along with the story is also really, really cool. And I think if I think about like the modernization of Hollywood, so much of it happens behind closed doors and like through press releases, I think we're probably going to witness more of it now. Like we're going to see more transparency in how a movie comes together. And I think all of us as audience members on the internet, we want to know the story and we want to be a part of the story.

15:53And when this movie comes out, we're all going to feel a sense of ownership. You know, and I think that's, what's really cool. it's like hey that was one of ours like that's one of our guys yeah he made this movie that's a really good point powerful that's a really good point what advice do you have for young filmmakers or youtube creators who want something like this to happen to them i think one of the things you said is like confidence right i think it's such a big thing like i think it compounds once you have one success you get more confidence and confidence helps you get your next success because a lot of film is pitching it so if you can pitch it confidently and people think you have things rolled up in your sleeve, then they're going to invest in you.

16:29So yeah, fake it till you make it. I would assume with confidence too, that relationships comes with that, right? Like you go into projects with confidence, you make enough projects over enough amount of time and you start to build those relationships with the people that I'm sure eventually made that short with you. Exactly. It's not like you met all those people for the first time when you shot that short and put it together. Exactly. Exactly. It's like, it's also ignorance in a way. I wrote an article about this. It was actually my common app for Harvard. It was a very personal kind of thing.

16:57But I think Orson Welles was once asked how he directed Citizen Kane. He said, ignorance, pure ignorance. I did it because I didn't know it was impossible. He broke the rules because he didn't know the rules. So it was a thing of like, I think if you go, because I used to make films and think my film is going to be here in quality, right? And then it ends up being here. And I'm like, okay, fine, my next film will be here. And then only then my film quality actually gets here. So that's the only way I think you could improve. Because if you don't think your film is going to succeed, then like, why make it?

17:28And even if it falls short, then think you're going to go further next. And so a lot of it is just ignorance. Yeah. As we were getting onto the call, you were talking about this sort of convergence of Hollywood and YouTube, Hollywood and digital. What's your perspective on that convergence between those two worlds as someone who's actively right now, kind of a part of that? That's a really good question. I've been thinking about it a lot. And in terms of how it's actually going to go down, it's very hard to say. But I know for a fact, like the strikes and AI and COVID, they're all like symptoms of like the same kind of problem, I think of just like film and TV don't have a monopoly on on leisure as they did anymore, did before.

18:07so I'd say um because like Instagram and TikTok and YouTube have taken a large cut of that pie so I think um it's we're gonna there's gonna be some kind of we're on the precipice of something big in the next few years I think um for for Hollywood dude it's awesome like you're really you're you're you're living out a fantasy that I think a lot of filmmakers have that's another thing I want to like say like I'm really grateful to be in this position like I don't want to act like I know a lot more than you guys because I'm sure you guys are like saying like I feel the same way. Like, I don't think anything I'm saying is pretty revolutionary at all.

18:39So, but yeah, I appreciate you guys and giving me this platform and this opportunity. All right, I want to acknowledge if I came off as jealous at any point in that conversation, it's because I am. Yeah. No, I, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's all. Yeah, the amount of times that day you told everyone that you too had Hollywood dreams. Yeah, I was like, listen, I mean, you're going to hear it again when we talk to Lucas. So yeah, let's just tee up the Lucas. conversation because you're going to hear it again. I mean, it's great to hear from Wesley and to understand, you know, how this stuff comes to life.

19:15I do think as young filmmakers, one advantage that people have and that people who work on YouTube and TikTok all have is like, I do think we have a good sense of the macro view of our own stories. That's been a new development that's happened with filmmakers and creators that, you know, Wesley is aware of his own story when he's walking in the room and pitching this movie. And I think that you look at like the tweet that we put out about this story is like really simple, but it got 4 million views, right? Or 4 million impressions on that tweet and a ton of engagement because it's like, at a glance, this is a good story.

19:52Youngest director, self-financed, uploaded to YouTube, quick email from Darren Aronofsky, Like, this is a fantastic story. And I do think that we talk about this all the time, but there's this modern group of filmmakers knows their own story and how to tell their own story well. And I think that is a huge differentiator in Hollywood right now. Yeah, his superpower is the confidence that he has from understanding his own story and knowing how to tell it. He says, when we spoke to him, that, you know, he knew his story and he was confident going into the pitch process. Now, after we had this conversation, we continued talking about, like, is this actually part of a larger trend or is this a one-off thing?

20:31Yeah, like, hey, Hollywood, how about us? What about us? So we wanted to call in an expert. Lucas Shaw is an absolute expert on all things Hollywood and media. And we wanted to call him to get his perspective on not only this story, but this world of YouTube and Hollywood colliding. Is this a real thing that's happening or not? And Lucas is a contributor on one of our favorite podcasts called The Town with Matt Bellany, which covers traditional entertainment, covers Hollywood, but often covers when creators sort of dip their toes in. Yep. Right? With the Mr. Beast Amazon show, they talked about it.

21:09And so he's just someone that we've admired and we're excited to have on specifically to talk about this. All right, Lucas, welcome. Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. One of my first questions for you, and I've been very regularly listening to you on the town and really enjoying your coverage of everything that's happening, you know, in the world of entertainment and Hollywood. I was curious if you could give us just a high level of what the current state of Hollywood is in the streaming landscape and like how the film business is going. I'd say the easiest word to describe it would either be kind of chaos or anxiety.

21:55You had this business that for a long time was very stable, mostly because of cable television. The number of people who paid for cable kept going up. It was a very consistent and lucrative business. The movie business was good, not great. I think the movie business has slowly ceded its place at the center of culture. But Marvel was this very steady factory for Disney. Disney was the biggest studio. And so the movie business, in some ways at least, peaked in 2019 right before the pandemic, which I believe was the year one of the big Avengers movies came out. They're like all these billion dollar grossing movies.

22:38But over the last kind of five or six years, you've seen just just total retrenchment and chaos. And we saw it coming way before then with Netflix and YouTube and streaming and all these things that that, you know, you and your listeners are well aware of. But it didn't have as big an impact on the business of traditional Hollywood, I would say, into the last four or five years where you saw just a bunch of mergers, a bunch of layoffs, spending pullbacks. You had sort of these strange incidents, both the pandemic and then two strikes last year that sort of fed into this. But you're seeing the slow collapse of what had been the most lucrative business for all these people and what they thought would replace it, which was streaming, has at least so far not done so.

23:27And when you look at YouTube creators with the rise of YouTube specifically being watched on TV, do you look at that trend as being additive and helpful to what's happening in Hollywood and the film industry? Or is it more of a threat? How do you look at that? total threat um i think for a long time people in hollywood saw youtube and social media and all this as sort of an other right like they were like oh that's like cute and those people and there's no question that it was even from its beginnings a threat like if if you go back and look at the birth of hulu for example they weren't talking about netflix because netflix came out the same year that that those media companies created hulu they were talking about youtube they saw the Saturday Night Live videos going up there and going, wow, they're taking our stuff.