We asked MKBHD about his 'devastating' Humane AI pin review

0:00The Colin and Samir Show is supported by Microsoft Copilot. This is something I thought I would never say, but can I share with you my favorite prompt? I mean, like when you say something like that, I have to say yes. Were you going to say no? No, but okay. Just let me hear it. So when I'm researching for a guest or I need to know a lot about a subject matter, I say, make me a podcast about. And when you do that, you're going to get a short blurb about that subject. And then in like two minutes, you're going to get a podcast. So check this out. Welcome to Co-Pilot Podcasts. Picture this, a guy working the front desk at a hotel, making lacrosse videos in his spare time, completely unaware that he's about to become one of the most influential voices in the creator economy.

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1:10Try it for your research. Try it for getting variations of your titles, your ideas. It's one of my favorite tools on the internet right now for our creativity. And now back to the show. At this point, I feel like there's reviews and then there's you. Do you feel a different type of weight or responsibility in this moment before you put out a review, knowing the impact it could have? Today on The Colin and Samir Show, we're joined by MKBHD. We called him right before the release of his review of the Humane AI pin, which if you watch the video, he called the worst product he's ever reviewed. The review has drawn some criticism and some pushback with people questioning whether Marquez should make videos like this that are largely negative.

1:56They argue that the impact of one of his reviews could be devastating on the companies and the people who work at these companies. So it's an interesting conversation. Is Marquez too powerful for his own good? This call was for a story in our newsletter, The Publish Press, which if you don't subscribe is linked in our description right now. But it's also why Nate is here. Hey, Nate. What's up, Samir? Nate wrote the story and he was also on the call. So after we play you this short interview, we're going to chime in with our thoughts. All right, here's our conversation with MKBHD.

2:33Marquez, how far out are you from releasing your humane review? As we're recording this, I am finishing editing it. So last pass color correction. So give me like an hour for that and then export, upload. So it'll be good in like probably three hours, hopefully. So it'll be out public in three hours. Yeah. Okay. So when you're in this moment and you're like three hours away from releasing this video, personally, I feel like you're at a very unique point in your career. I've been following you for a really long time. And at this point, I feel like there's reviews and then there's you personally.

3:13I feel like that you've been separated from the pack, you could review a cheese grater and I think it would get millions of views and it may move the markets for cheese graters. I think history has shown that that's a possibility. So after everything that happened with the Fisker Ocean, now on the heels of releasing this humane review, do you feel a different type of weight or responsibility in this moment before you put out a review, knowing the impact it could have? um not not particularly i think you guys have probably were the first ones to ask about like the weight of the publish button i think where basically yes there are a lot of people who will see and criticize and view whatever we make so there is an extra weight to the publish button every time we hit it um but i suspect you're looping in humane and fisker with the common theme of negative reviews, which, yeah, we do review mostly things we like, but also some negative reviews.

4:18And I think negative reviews kind of land differently. So it feels different to publish. It feels more of a PSA than a normal review. But I wouldn't say it is any more or less stressful or weighty to do that, because it's also very unlikely that I'm the only one saying negative things about whatever product I'm making a video about. I do think you're in a unique position, though. It's not like, I don't think of you as a critic. I think of you as a reviewer. But critics and reviewers have been around for a long time, right? Like we've read reviews in the paper, and sometimes they impact if people will go watch a film or something like that.

4:59The difference now is that you can make a review, and if it's a critique, algorithmically, millions of people can see it. and it can make people decide if they want to buy the product, not buy the product. Maybe it can make stock prices go down. Like when I think about you, I think, wow, this creator may be the ultimate tastemaker. Like I don't like that term always influencer, but you might be, in terms of your level of influence, you may have one of the most levels of impact of any creator out there. Do you recognize it or see it like that? I think it's possible. I also think in this world of like I mostly do these tech products and I have like a sphere of things that I most often review.

5:51There's never been more voices in each of these spaces. I think that's also probably true. I think if you rewind and go back to like David Pogue and Walt Mossberg of like the journals and the Times, there were very few voices that people actually went to for an opinion on if something was good or bad. And I think in those cases, you could kind of point to like these four people set the tone for how this product landed in America. and I think yeah you can draw a straight line to like it didn't land very well with these guys and then the stock price went down or whatever but I feel like when a YouTube video of mine goes up on a product there are very frequently hundreds of others going up on the same product around the same time that may or may not cumulatively add up to whatever the same amount as one of my videos but I actually feel like it may be less likely that my individual opinion carries as much weight to the stock price specifically because there are lots of people piling onto the same product at the same time.

7:06Like I hear what you're saying. There's a lot of people who pay attention to what I'm talking about and might not like it because of what I said, but I guess that's just how I feel. There's so many more voices now. So when you're delivering to camera in a review, let's talk about humane as an example you don't have an extra voice in the back of your head of like should I say it like that? Should I tweak it like this? Are you a little bit more sensitive because of this moment? It feels like you're in a moment right now of people really tracking what you're saying coming off of Fisker. Not that people don't always tune in and take it very seriously but because of the impact it's had lately.

7:43I never think of a negative review as anything special. I actually get accused of not doing negative reviews all the time. People are like, this guy only says good things about products. Like, I don't know about that one. But I think in the past when I've done a review that's pretty negative or about a product where things are wrong with it, the thing that strikes me the most is there are lots of smart people who worked on this thing. No matter what it is, no matter what product it is, whether it's the Chromebook Pixel or the Pixel Slate or the Dyson headphones or the Fisker car or the Humane Pen, whatever, there are usually hundreds of smart people who worked really hard on this thing.

8:24And in the back of my head, I do think there is like the thought that, yeah, these people are going to watch this. So they need to know that it's bad. They can't have it sugarcoated. Like I think in the back of all of their heads, they know it's bad, too. But no, I'm not trying to be extra nice or anything either. I think we need to be honest about when things are good and when they're bad. Does it alter the way you will deliver a review if you know someone personally? As I watch on Twitter, Sam Sheffer, who I know, you know, has somewhat become a face of Humane, the creator within Humane, a little bit public-facing.

9:03He's excited that you have the product and you're reviewing it, and he's super open to feedback. but does it change when you have a personal relationship with someone at the company? I'm sure it's not the first time for you, but for me, I see this as a little bit of a public thing taking place. Yeah, I think a lot of companies literally try this as a tactic where they specifically try to be friendly outside of normal PR interactions so that you have this human element to it. I'm not going to name names, but a lot of companies, car companies, tech companies, PR persons like, hey, I'm in town, want to hang out?

9:40Hey, we want to go golfing? Hey, like, let's hang out. And I'm fine with being friendly with the person, but that will literally never change the video. Just so we are on the same page. Never changes the video. Yeah, I mean, we've already talked about it and Colin certainly addressed it to you as well, Marquez. But talk about Fisker, right? And stock prices. You know, this is something that went from the day you upload your video on February 17th trading around 75 cents a share now it's hovering around two cents a share but at the same time the stock was at like six or seven dollars in december it was already on that downward trajectory kind of how you said it as well there's also hundreds of other people's reviewing these products at the time when you're putting up a product upload so i'm curious i've heard this phrase thrown around bad reviews don't tank companies bad products do to what extent would you say you agree with that sentiment?

10:32I think that's 90 something percent true. I mean, you don't get a bad product without bad reviews. I think if you get bad reviews without a bad product, that's kind of odd. Right. So it'd be weird if you had a good product come out and then a bunch of bad reviews and then that kills the company. I don't think I've ever seen that happen. Right. Because there's still people going to the store and trying it and buying it. And if they like it, there's word of mouth. There's all sorts of other opinions that spread. So I don't think just bad reviews can kill the company. I think it's when you have a bad product, you are guaranteed to get bad reviews.

11:07If you have a product that has really lofty promises and then doesn't deliver on them and it's overpriced and it's glitchy and has safety issues, whatever it is, lots of people are going to talk about it the same way they would if it was a good product and they loved it and they shared it with their neighbor. Dude, you got to check this thing out. I love it. All of those same consequences are real. So yeah, you have a bad product that's going to do damage to the company and the bad reviews kind of amplify slash accelerate what was already going to happen because everyone has a voice and can share everything now.

11:40I'm curious about your process. Do you, what hoops do you go through or levels do you and your team go through to make sure that the reviews are as accurate as possible and that you've really done your due diligence. Because when I watch autofocus, it feels like just Marques with a phone. He's driven it for an extended period of time. And now here's this, what almost feels like a stream of consciousness that is very well delivered. But I imagine that there's much more that goes into it. Yeah, every channel and every video that's especially reviews have a pre-production and post-production vetting step.

12:22Like we have a notion template that has all this like dialed in. So we have everyone assigned to do everything. So for a review of this pin, for example, I've tested it. And we have David here, writer researcher helping me test it. And so as the review gets written, he's chiming in with his thoughts and we're making sure we agree on things are happening. He'll jump in the script and be like, actually, I don't know if I had the same issues that you did. Let's double check that. So we'll go over things pre-production. Then all of the production happens. post-production, when this video is finished, I'm going to send that video again to everyone involved in the testing process to make sure, number one, no factual errors.

13:02Number two, we didn't miss anything or say anything that we didn't mean to say, because I don't exactly go 100 % to the script. So pre-production and post-production have a step to make sure accuracy is locked. And then once that's good, then, you know, this video is up. So hopefully, yeah, And autofocus is similar. Miles helps produce autofocus channels. So even before we even get a car, we can have a bunch of notes on things to keep an eye out for. And then when it's done, he'll get a cut for the full video. We can go over it in frame, make some adjustments. So same thing there. I'm curious, now that you have your partnership and you're involved with Ridge, how does that impact the trust you have with your audience?

13:45Of course, you've released products before, but this is a next level of allegiance and involvement in a company. And I'm sure, you know, the core product when you're someone that reviews products is trust. And once you make an allegiance in a very involved way, I assume that could change the way audiences think about you and your process. Did you think about that at all? 100%, yeah. There's a couple of dimensions to that. One is specifically Ridge does not make products in any categories that I review. So if this was like a gadget company or whatever, and they make phones, and then I go on to review other phones, in the back of your head, whether or not you know it's true, you're going to think, is he holding back on saying good things because he has allegiances with the other phone company?

14:38And people say that already anyway, to be honest, even though I have no allegiances there. So that is important that Ridge is not making things that I review. But then the other dimension is, what if Ridge messes up and does some horrible thing or makes a bad product? Would I stand by it? Guess what? No. I'm going to be honest about all of the products that Ridge makes too. So I think you're right. I think trust is like the ultimate in what leverage I have as a product reviewer. And any breach in that becomes pretty obvious because people are going to buy it and check it out. Other people are going to check it out and review it.

15:15And if I'm the only one saying it's great and I have an allegiance with them and then everyone else goes, wait a second, this thing is bad. Well, there goes trust. So, yeah, I got to be on top of it. So my last question now, three hours out from Humane, what can we expect? Obviously, don't give it away, but this won't come out, I imagine, until after the review is already out. What are we looking at with this Humane pin review? I will say this has been one of the hardest reviews to title. It's really hard for me to make a title and thumbnail for this review for a bunch of reasons. Overall sentiment, if you're wondering, it is a bad product.

15:54You've probably already figured that out from the other reviews. But it's interesting because my audience, some of them know about it. A lot of them have no idea what it is. And so if this is just the humane AI pin review, I think a lot of them aren't really interested or a little confused, don't know what that is. but it is such a bad product that it can kind of end up on the scope of like this gadget is bad, weird, odd. I have a section in the video of the glimmer of hope it represents for a certain future that I find fascinating so it's like this gadget is either bad or I'm an idiot. I don't know.

16:38There's a weird I don't have a title yet. Spoiler alert. But yes, I think I gave it a very fair shot. I use it for well over a week. And I deliver my thoughts in what I think is a pretty reasonable way like usual. So hopefully you'll see it soon. If anything, it makes me feel good that you don't have a title and a thumbnail yet. Not that I want that for you, but it makes me feel better about our process. So I look forward to seeing what you titled it. I'm welcome to suggestions. Hit me in the DMs after this. I've got like a list of like nine that I don't think are good enough, but we're almost there.

17:13All right. I'll keep an eye on it. If I think of anything, I'll send it over. Perfect. Thanks, Marquez. All right. So since, since that conversation, the video has come out and he titled the video around the worst product he's ever reviewed. And the conversation that ensued on Twitter that, you know, people were suggesting that this was like, like a, people were suggesting that this was unethical of Marquez to call this product the worst product and that it had a really dramatic impact on, you know, this startup. Yeah. There was a tweet that said that, that it was unethical. There was a tweet, you know, that talked about how this could bankrupt Humane, talking about how this could have devastating impacts.

17:59And at the same time, Sam Sheffer, who works at Humane, sort of said, like, we appreciate this feedback, right? He was like, I appreciate it. We will learn from it. I do think it's important that in that tweet that Sam retweets, the title of the video is not the worst product. Marquez has a different title there. That's a little bit less definitive that this is the worst product. So I wonder if Sam still retweets that if it has the same title on YouTube. But largely, there was some conversation around how the title specifically was meant to harm. That the assumption was that people would just see the title and read this headline, worst product I've ever reviewed, from the biggest reviewer on YouTube, the most well-known.

18:50And even if they don't watch the video, they see that snapshot and they go, oh, I'm not interested in that product. And people are saying that that is irresponsible or as one guy puts it unethical. So I think a lot of this conversation drives from, well, first and foremost, clicking into the video, like it definitely earned my click, right? Like seeing Marquez talk about the worst product he's ever reviewed, that has to have incredibly high click through on his channel. And seeing the actual review, like I think everything he said was fair. And I think that that title is represented in the video.

19:27So I don't, to me, it's not like egregious clickbait to call it the worst product he's ever reviewed. And that's what the channel is. It's his opinion on tech. So like, to me, that's fair. But I think the important context in that title conversation is that he's made a, the worst X I've reviewed before on his autofocus channel with the Fisker Ocean. And that video is like an outlier on that channel. It did really well. And I think because he talks about it in this interview, people tell him he doesn't do enough negative reviews because it's really unique to see Marquez do a negative review or even be that definitive that it is the worst product.

20:09That is something that we haven't really seen from Marquez. This is a real good story about Bronx and his dad, Ryan, real United Airlines customers. We were returning home and one of the flight attendants asked Bronx if he wanted to see the flight deck and meet Captain Andrew. I got to sit in the driver's seat. I grew up in an aviation family and seeing Bronx kind of reminded me of myself when I was that age. That's Andrew, a real United pilot. These small interactions can shape a kid's future. It felt like I was the captain. Allowing my sun to see the flight deck will stick with us forever. That's how good leads the way.

21:08lifelock.com slash podcast for 40 % off. Terms apply. I think though, as his influence grows, as his audience grows, he has a responsibility to continue to be truthful and maintain that trust. I would not want him to take a softer approach about products and then have people buy the products on the humane AI pin. if he felt some sort of way or felt bad and didn't want to go fully in on it. And then people bought it and were like, hey man, you're pretty influential. That cost me 700 bucks and now I'm also signed up to this subscription payment. What the hell? Is he the only tech reviewer who has enough power to be honest?

21:56I feel like this is a conversation emerging from this whole incident as well because I think there's a lot of up-and-coming creators who are looking for access with some of these tech CEOs, some of these companies. And he's not as worried about that. But at the same time, if he shares something leaning negative about Apple, they might not invite him back to a conference, but also do they kind of need him? Where is he at in that power dynamic at this stage? So personally, I think his responsibility is first and foremost with his audience. Like if he doesn't get invited back to the Apple keynote, sure, that's a bummer.

22:32but Marquez can still buy the Apple products and review them. And people are still looking to him for his opinion on new tech products. It's what he did before he got invited to the Apple keynotes. Right. So, so in my opinion, like I don't think he can be concerned about that or should be concerned about that because that is his brand. Like his, his brand is and, and is who he is as MKBHD is he'll give you his honest opinion on these tech products. If he needs to buy them, if they get sent to them, if he gets invited to the events or not, he's still going to make the same videos. We also may be dealing with a scenario here where innovation when it comes to phones has been incredibly slow and minor over many years.

23:18So Marquez, who's a pretty calm, relaxed, composed guy, when the major companies are putting out phones that are only slightly different, his reviews are only slightly different, right? He's searching for the nuance of the thing that's a little bit different. The humane AI pin is very ambitious and very different. So the likelihood that it's bad or different is high, which means we're probably going to get a different type of Marquez. He's consistent. The product is what's different here. By the way, the reviews are consistent with Marquez's opinion. Yes, it's not like he's an outlier. He's not an outlier.

23:54And he was also the last review in this series of reviews from The Verge. and CNET and Mr. Who's the Boss, none of these reviews were overwhelmingly positive. The Verge's review of this product is that it's not good and it doesn't work. And I think the main issue here now is as a tech brand, you are putting your products out into a content environment of a bunch of individuals sharing their opinions with a bunch of people who trust those opinions. And at the top of that pyramid is Marques Brownlee. So, like, I don't think, I look at the situation and I don't feel, I don't feel like bad for humane.

24:37You know, I really don't. I look at this and I'm like, that is everything he said about the product seems to be consistent with what everyone else has said about the product. So, it seems like it wasn't that great of a product. and being humane, being like a company that is aware of the new media landscape, you know it's going to go out into these, into every creator's hands, right? Yeah, I just think we've gotten to a point where it puts Marquez in a little bit of a situation, especially when people separate him from the pack, me included on the call. I said there's reviews and then there's you.

25:13Yeah. You know, on Twitter, again, they say Marquez and critics chime in on the$700 flop. It puts him in a position when he becomes the face of the downfall of a company, whether or not the downfall was going to happen because of his review, right? Like Humane may go down whether Marquez makes this review or not. Fisker, you know, just got delisted on the New York Stock Exchange or scheduled for that. That may have happened whether Marquez talked about it or not. He probably accelerated it, right? Yeah. But he's become the face. He's quickly becoming the face when he talks about something. I think perhaps he's being given too much credit for the downfall of these companies.

25:55The greatest tweet from this was the last thing a startup sees before they die, and it's Marques with a red camera. I think that's the final. Maybe this is just because of not just Marquez, but the review climate as it is, the life cycle or the lifespan of a company is just being accelerated either for good or for worse. Well, why don't we talk about the title and thumbnail? Because that to me, like even in the conversation with Marquez, he was still debating the title and thumbnail. And to go with the title that he went with is a significant choice, right? The worst product I've ever reviewed.

26:31But not disingenuine to what's inside the video like you said. It's not. But there will be more impressions on the title and thumbnail than there will be views on the video. And there will be like way more people who glance at it and just go, that's the worst product. Yeah. Basically ever, because that's what MKBHD said. And there is more nuance in the video. So I think that's like, to me, what it seems like the major pushback in conversation is, is the decision that he made to go with that title. for me it's not disingenuine to what's inside the video i actually think it's the best summary of that video yeah to be honest in the shortest amount of words and that's what a title should be i think it is what it is they did like is this any different than a headline a really good headline in the new york times no but i think that um people are supposed to get less views Yeah, yeah, but people also push back on headlines.

27:31Like there was commentary that this was sensational and like sensationalism for the purpose of driving clicks. Do you, I guess, do you guys like agree with that sentiment? Man, I think on the scale of sensational YouTube titles and thumbnails, this is not it. We could show you way worse titles and thumbnails that are incredibly hyperbolic. And I think also spending time with Marquez and knowing him personally, like he is a guy who loves reviewing tech. And I think if I didn't know him personally, I would maybe be more susceptible to thinking that he had ulterior motives here or something like that.

28:12but I think knowing him personally he really loves giving his opinion on tech and I agree with his sentiment that I like seeing more negative reviews from Marquez I think it's important for creators who are reviewers to have both represented on their channels positive and negative also it's not like this is a series the Fisker video and the Humane review yes they're titled similarly but this is not a format this is not a series unless he finds a bunch of other items outside of cars and phone sort of style tech to review, which I don't think he's going to do. If you look at the history of Marquez, this guy has been making reviews since he was like 11.