We interviewed the YouTuber taking down Netflix: Kinigra Deon

26:22So I'm saying it, but it's there. All right. So now, was I the best worker? Okay, at midnight, on midnight shift, we probably get like one or two samples. Like at night, you didn't, you're just sitting there. So I would edit my videos. This one girl, I don't know, she just wanted to mess with me or something. And she would come up to me and she go, you can't edit on the clock. Or you can't do your little YouTube on the clock. I'm like, well, you can't watch Oprah on the computer either. So what's the difference? Get out of my face. You know, like how are you coming to me? Like I'm doing something, I'm trying to become something.

27:01And you're not working. You're watching your little news articles or whatever. Leave me alone. Anyway, she went and told my manager that I edit while I'm on the clock. And so he had to have a conversation with me. And I told him just straight up, I'm not going to stop editing. Like, I'm not. You can't fire me. You're going to talk to me. You're going to write me. I still have time. I have a lot of time before you can fire me. But I said, but I do plan on leaving. So don't worry. I'm not going to be here long. It's not like I was not doing the work. It's not like, you know, I was making mistakes or that kind of stuff.

27:36No, I still did. Like, when a sample come, okay, put this over here. Let me do my job. Let me analyze. Okay, call the doctor. I have a stat. Let me make sure everything is done. I had, like, it wasn't like the editing was hindering my performance at work. It wasn't. It was just this is what I could do on midnight shift because our samples really don't start riven up until, like, 7 o 'clock in the morning. So anyway, the day COVID hit and I was like so sad because it was like, holy crap. My sister's moved here. She's working at the VA too. Night shift. We're both working at the VA. And I'm like, I made her move to LA.

28:18COVID has hit. I have no one else to be in my videos. And at that time, I remember we started filming. It's a period in COVID where it's like maybe four videos. It's just me. and I'm playing like four characters. It's like four whole characters. It's like I've changed my hair. I did a, what is it, virtual school episode. I'm playing 10 characters, like a little boy, a little girl, a teacher. Anyway, so I learned just how to just still create. I remember in March my first check from YouTube where it was like, I can quit now. It was$20 ,000. that's the most I've made and at the time Facebook I think Facebook I made like$25 ,000 in that same month?

29:06in that same month so now I have made close to$50 ,000 I still didn't quit though because I'm like I don't know this may be some kind of outlier I don't know what the what is going on I'm sure that feels like a glitch yeah it did until the next month because now I'm back home filming like my my videos that are geared toward teens and family content, the way you can watch it with your kids. Everybody can relate to the video in some form or fashion. And so that next month, I remember it went to, in August, my YouTube check was$50 ,000. Yeah. So I'm like, okay, okay. Oh, my God. I could probably do this.

29:52And then YouTube, I mean, and Facebook was still like maybe$20 ,000. Facebook started decreasing, but YouTube just kept increasing because Facebook audience is more so adults. So the more teens and family content that I started creating, Facebook revenue start going down, but YouTube revenue start going up. And at the same time, I'm posting these videos on TikTok. So they're finding them and coming watching it. So December, I made—and at the time, me and Reggie, we're back together now. And I'm telling you, you got to be in my video. I need some actors. He's like, I'm not doing that. But he would handle the business.

30:28Because he owned several businesses. And he had a club that he owned in Birmingham. And so he's like, I can help you with the business. But I'm not being in the video. Reggie's got a real cool guy vibe on it. He's like, I'm too cool. I'm too cool to be. He's got a real cool guy vibe on it. Yeah, I'm too cool to be in the little YouTube video. But I'll help you. He does have a smooth vibe. Yeah, until he got in the first one. You should have saw him. Let me see it. Let me see that. Let me see. Was my acting good? Let me play that back. Like, if you don't move away and let me finish this video. So that was his first video.

31:00It was my crush son. It was like I had a crush on Reggie, but his son had like this crush on me. So I'm thinking it's a letter from Reggie, but it wasn't. So anyway, that was his first video. But from there, Reggie, I remember I told him, I was like, December. So again, I have no idea about certain months. What's the high CPM months or low CPM months? In December, I made$100 ,000. That was my first check. I said, baby, my YouTube check is$100 ,000. He said, what? At that time, I could get him in any video. He was like, wait, we have to create. Hold on. This is not, because it was consistent now.

31:44And he's like, oh, this isn't like some hobby or some play. this is a full-on business. And so he started really getting involved with, he had like, what I've noticed a lot of times when I try to handle business, because this is a male dominated field, the camera crew are men. The editors usually are men. And when I talk to them, for some reason, it's almost like I, I'm either saying yes, or I'm too, I'm not as, if like, say if they go, well, I don't think that's a good idea to maybe let, Maybe we could do a partnership and we get a percent. And I'm like, okay, I guess because you don't want, like, I feel like maybe I was doing bad business.

32:25Maybe that's not how it was. Reggie comes on. No, that doesn't, that business model doesn't make sense. This is what we do. It'll be based off X, Y, and Z. And then their response is like, oh, okay, we could do that. Okay. Well, then why wouldn't I say it? Anyway, so now Reggie's like the bad guy. Oh, I have to talk to my husband. Let me talk to my husband. and he handles all the business. I pretend like I'm really like, I'm just a creative on this side, but we're sitting there talking business with each other. But then he gets on the phone and he does all the talking to them. Right. Anytime. Anytime anything bad, let me talk to my husband.

33:00So yeah. Is that frustrating for you? It was at first. It was. It was like, treat me with the same respect. And I am Reggie. Like you're the entrepreneur. You're the, knowing that you don't get that respect. What's crazy. We, so we're going so on a tangent. But anyway, I remember going to the car dealership, me and Reggie. We're right, we're by each other. Car dealership, we go in and we're going to, I'm about to buy my dream car. I'm about to buy a G-Wagon. I'm so excited. I can afford a G-Wagon. The whole time, the guy who was the salesman is addressing Reggie. And so I'm just sitting there.

33:34I'm like, well, I won't. He was like, so do you, like just talking only to him. So then when we sit down, we're about to do the paperwork. He was like, okay, asking Reggie for like his information, his ID. He said, no, it's for my wife. She's buying the car. Everything shifted. Oh, you're the one buying the car. Yes. What you thought I was? What you thought? I'm just, yeah, yeah, I'm buying the car. Me, me, you know? And so I was like, it kind of sucks sometimes. Like a lot of time they just assume that it's the male that is the one that is running everything. That is the person that's behind it.

34:11But men, it's just one of the things that is just how it is. And so I'm glad I get to use my husband to be like that. Like, because I can only imagine women who are, who doesn't have, almost like when you go to get your car looked at, you know, they always say, take a man. Like when you're a woman and you go get your car, like always take a man because a lot of times, oh, you need this and then you need that because they assume that you don't know and you take a man. And it's like, they kind of don't, you know. Anyway, so I'm glad I do have my husband. I'll also say that something that got me really excited about media and pursuing a career in media personally is that I think ideology is shaped through media.

34:53Yeah. And a lot of that is because those stereotypes are reinforced by the films and movies and TV shows we watch. And I think actually what's happening with YouTube and the opportunity is that we get to expand the world and actually create new ideology. it's another thing about your channel is that it's a majority female audience yes and so when you even think about this episode of some of those young girls or young black girls watching this that actually has a dramatic impact on how they see themselves growing up yes and for me that was really important as like a young indian american kid of immigrants being like i felt like i didn't see anyone who looked like me pursuing the thing i wanted to pursue which was creativity and storytelling.

35:37And so the most impactful messages I can get is from a young Indian kid being like, I didn't know this was possible. And I think that just as frustrating as that is, the work you're doing has this ripple effect that at the scale at which you're reaching people in the hundreds of millions of eyeballs, that has a dramatic ripple effect. I'm glad. What's crazy is even when I started this, it started with all my family. I remember coming home and I'm so glad that I had a really big support system with my family. They would all be in my videos and act and they really were horrible at it. They were.

36:16Like my mom, oh my gosh, she was terrible. And now she's, you know, she's like a pro now. She can come in, but oh, she was horrible. It was hard to film with her. She didn't understand continuity. She would go do a shot. Like her hair would be one way and then she'd come back in with a hat. It's like, mom, no. No, where did that hat come from? I just didn't even notice it. Now we got to redo the scene, you know? And so, but no, my family is really supportive. And every creator that, seriously, any actor that you see in my channel, on my channel, I make sure that they're a creator. So they all have their channels.

36:51They're all monetized. They have their own, like, group. And so the thing, one of the benefits that they get with us and all the girls, every one of them, Ariel, Roman, all of them, they have such massive, massive fan base on TikTok, on their YouTube channels. And I just taught them how to create. And they're really consistent. And now we have like all these girls because in Alabama, there's not that many creators. I don't even know any of them. And so we're creating our own kind of like infrastructure. I'm reshaping that through the kids. Because in Alabama, the parents is the hardest ones to reach, not the kids.

37:28The kids, all of them want to be creators. But in Alabama, it's like that thing. If you was to say in Alabama, oh, yeah, I want to be an actress. You know what I mean? Don't go to school. No, you need to be a doctor. You need to try to go be a lawyer. And that's the thing. Or get off that game. Why are you on the game? No, you're on that game too much. And it's like, wait, he has personality. Have you seen him play the game? This is a whole other economy. It's a whole other career that is opening up for your kid. You need to more so be invested in that, just like you're invested in him going to school.

38:01You need to invest in that creativity that he naturally has or that she has. Even the films that I make, even growing up, I loved sci-fi and vampires and mythical romance and all that. It was rare that I would see that with black people playing as the main cast. And so on my channel, if you see it, every mythical, you see superpowers, you see a vampire series, you see a lot of romance, you see a lot of dramas. And you see those that we traditionally don't see. Like, for example, when, what is it? Gosh, I just had it at the black. Okay. You know the Marvel, right? Black Panther. Gosh. I'm like, okay.

38:51When it came out, black people were so excited because we don't see too many movies with us as like a superhero. Oh, yeah. We were dressed up. I remember going to the movies like we all have on like African, like we're there like, oh my gosh, this is such a big thing. And so I create that on the channel because I want you to be, I want you to see yourself as a hero. I want you to be able to see yourself as this beautiful, romantic character. Like, a lot of times in romance, because I love romance film. I love K-dramas. I love, that's the ones I like to direct the most. A lot of times you don't really see that in black films.

39:39And if you look at the casting, it kind of, a lot of times when they cast for romance, it's the beautiful women, right? Beautiful women, beautiful men. and it sometimes reflect on yourself. It's like, whoa, am I beautiful? You know, like, and so when I make these films that other kids can like, oh, look at him. I loved how he looked in her eyes. It's like representative and they get to see themselves as that character and experience it. So that's another part of like, I just, I love that I get to create that. So as you were saying, like, even for women, it's that part of it too, so. Yeah, I think it's media, at least when I was growing up, it made me feel very other.

40:23Yeah. Because I was not any of those characters. Yeah. Right? And so I think it's like unbelievably important to not feel other in whatever context you're living in. Like if you're living in America or you're living in Alabama, like you want to see yourself in a multitude of ways to understand that anything is possible, right? Right. I think that is such an important piece of what is happening on YouTube right now. I think specifically in scripted. Because you're right. I grew up, I had every opportunity to see myself in every single role and get to absorb that and feel like, oh, that's a path for me or that's something I deserve to have.

41:00And on YouTube, in an unscripted way, it has been beautiful that anyone and everyone is represented in unscripted content on YouTube. But it's not that way unscripted, which is why it is such a beautiful thing, an opportunity that you're giving to the people that watch your videos. I want to ask about that year you described. You talked about making$70 ,000 one month from a mix of YouTube and Facebook. And then you go to December and you make$100 ,000. That amount of money in that year, what was your emotional reaction? We made it. We made it. We made it. Oh, it's right. We're going. Hey, everybody, quit your jobs.

41:41I'm telling you, you can do this. We're going to create a whole— I was like, it is on, y 'all. All we have to do is keep doing what we're doing. It's going to get bigger. I promise you. We're going to hit a million subscribers. Hey, we're probably going to. I'm just, I am stoked because now it's almost like I really, really now believe in what I'm doing. At first, it's like I'm doing it. Okay. But now I know this is the path. This is what I'm on. And I know even now it feels big, but I know it's going to be so much bigger because I know I have like purpose now. You know, and so and once you have purpose, you even if it even if some obstacle happened, it doesn't matter because I know what my purpose is.

42:26I just deal with that obstacle. I learn from it. And I'm going to just keep pushing and keep going. Even when I feel like I don't deserve to be in this room. How am I in this room? I don't know. I'm here. You know, this is God. And it's just more of a testimony that God is so amazing. And he really has blessed my entire family. Like, we grew up dirt poor, you know. Like, my sister, gosh, am I, what is going on? Okay, whatever. Okay. I am emotional. I don't know what's going on. But anyway, my sister, like, we grew up on, like, government assistance. And she was able to buy her first house. You know, she believed in me enough to, like, quit her job.

43:06And now she's her own content creator. she has like her own house like with stairs and for us like a house with stairs like that was like what you have a house with stairs we were in a trailer you know um or either like we lived in a house that the back of it wasn't even we couldn't we had to like put a sheet up because the when it was cold we had to block off the heat because the house wasn't finished in the back and so So it's like, you know, God is so good because my entire family, like no one is struggling. And I think about my kids, my babies, like they're never going to experience that. And so it's just, I don't know.

43:47I don't know. Yeah, that's powerful. Yeah. Yes, it's, yeah, I'm just thankful. That's amazing. Yeah. Credit to you for having that conviction that this is going to work. To look at a bunch of people, your family, and say, you can quit your jobs. I believe in this thing. That takes a lot of conviction and faith. And that's a risk in itself to do that, right? To be that person who's in front of the whole family and go, no, I think this is it. Yeah. And I think the hardest thing about that was it's still this, even though I said do it, but it's still this big burden you have on yourself, right? I have to make it.

44:27I have to make this work. Like everyone is depending on me to make this work. And so just from that, and sometimes, and like I said, I'm so thankful for my husband because even when I'm down, he kind of, he picks me up. Or if he feels like, oh, this is a little hard, we pick each other up and we just keep going. Because for him, he's that for his family. I'm that for my family. And we're that for both of our families together. And so, like, we match each other so well. So as like this, this shift is happening from like, oh my God, this is real. What was the first investment you made into the business?

45:06Because like, again, one of the biggest questions around scripted content and scripted content model, especially from people in Hollywood today is like, how do you make this work economically? Scripted content costs a lot of money. It does. You were doing it by yourself in the beginning, right? And also to have that level of output, you also have to have a lot of writing. You have to be able to write. Yeah. Because three videos a week, you're like writing scripts and writing concepts and constantly drafting. So where did the investment go? Did it go into the writing? Did it go into editing, crew?

45:39Well, no, I went to more so crew because writing, I still was writing everything. Got it. And so I had a lot of ideas and a lot of time I could improv. Like I said, that was probably one of the hardest things. So sometimes we wouldn't even write. We would just go and improv. And like I was telling you at first, that's why I was like, I think scripted and unscripted is connected. We would improv the script. And so we may improv a line. I'm like, oh, get that line in a close-up. That was really good. And so it started that way. And so I had so many ideas. And then my family, they wrote. And so now we're all writing, but we're still all getting paid.

46:19But then once it grew, the biggest investment I would say was switching to not filming myself. It was now we're hiring cinematographers. That is where I really start learning, oh, this can really look like a movie versus like a skit. It looks like a movie now. Yeah, there's a dramatic difference if you go on your channel and you click oldest. Yep. You watch those videos. Yes. And then you go newest and you watch it and you're like, oh, you're making like these look like movies. Yeah. Yeah. That looks totally different. Because I learned from them because they were filming movies. Like they, the crew that I first used, they were filming movies.

47:00And when they came down, I'll even tell you the story. When they first came down, it was, like I said, is a difference with this is a male dominated feel. And it's like you little girl, you woman, you don't know. You don't know what you're talking about. Like, here, I'm going to show you how to do this. I'm like, well, I know I want it this way, but no, it needs to be this way. And I remember I called my husband. I said, he's not listening to me. I get he knows all the stuff, but he's not listening to me. So my husband came, had a talk with him. He was like, I'm sorry. He did. He really, he was like, I'm sorry.

47:28I'm used to dealing with men. And from there, we just, so now he's learning from me because even though you, I'm learning from him. But even though you know like close, wide, and medium, now that I can see what close, wide, and medium, I know what emotion, I can see this emotion. I need this in this shot. We do not have to do this thing from start to finish either because I know I'm going to cut to this close. Stop making me redo the wide over and over. I'm not even going to use it because he would like, oh, you messed up. Start over. No, I'm going to cut. I'm editing. I'm going to cut. But he wasn't an editor.

48:03He was only the cinematographer. And so anyway, I learned close, medium, and wide. I learned focal length. I had no idea that it looks better when you put it in 70 because I would have it in 24 and we're just right here in front of your face for a close-up. Completely different feel, right? And so from there, I'm like, oh my gosh, I've been learning this world completely wrong. I can make this look so much better to where you can really feel the emotion the comedy the and at first I was only doing comedy by the way yeah I only did comedy and but I was like I can make this funnier this should have definitely been in the close-up and then so then I started studying YouTube University I'm like oh I love that shot I love this angle so I end up teaching him I hate sticks.

48:54I know you guys love sticks, but I hate sticks. Sticks, tripods. Okay. But I hate sticks. I love movement. I love the field of things. And so I ended up buying gimbals. So I switched from that to gimbals. So putting the gimbal on there, I want us to move. I want us to. So the biggest, let me just answer the question. The first investment was the film crew because I learned I needed to hire someone who knew more than me, but that doesn't mean take away from my creative input, but you know more than me when it comes to filming. I didn't know this. And now my job is to learn more about it. So then the second investment was, what is the thing that's costing me the most time?

49:33And that was my editing. And I liked editing, but I just wasn't the best. I didn't have any training. I couldn't do any effect. If I did an effect on the video, it'd be like, what the heck is this? And so I ended up finding a really good editor. I actually met my best editor at BitSummit. Oh, wow. And he has grown his team and he's amazing. And I'm not going to say his name because you're not getting my editor. You're saying he's grown his team within your company? Within, yeah. So yeah. No, so he's, well, he has his own company. Oh, okay, interesting. And so he's grown his team because it's like, I want you to also, I guess for your team, it depends, you got to know what their goals are.

50:18And so if his goal is to have his own post-production company, it's hard for him to be my employee. That's not what he wanted. And I'm like, that's fine. Grow because I'm going to keep growing too. And I'm going to need more editors. And if that's why, I'd rather you run that than me be over that anyway. And so that's kind of how it is. And so that would be the second. And that was my second investment. and then the hardest investment because writers you can write but i'm gonna change the script on set anyway it doesn't matter write whatever i'm gonna read it cool all right i'm gonna go on set change it yeah once you see it you're gonna be like yeah that was the script yeah it was but not anymore it's not what i saw so what was the hardest investment for me was directors giving up that, how I see it and letting someone else direct a set.

51:14Gosh, my husband, he know, I'm like, this is horrible. Why did they do that shot? I don't like this. I hate it. And I'm like, I'm going to, he's like, well, you're going to burn yourself out. You cannot direct every video. You can't. And he couldn't, it was him. My husband was directing too and writing and we're going to burn out. And so I was like, you know what? Okay, put the video out. The comments loved it. You know? And I'm like, what? You guys like that video? They didn't even do one of the pushing shots and make them look at each other long enough. You know? And so that taught me like my biggest lesson of you are a streaming platform.

51:51You're not going to like Can He Grow every video on Netflix. There's only certain videos that you like. But there's going to be an audience who actually like this video. I'll give you another thing. Let's go back to Tyler Perry. He released a movie recently. I can't even remember the name. But I think it got like a 0 % on Rotten Tomatoes. They dogged the movie. Everybody's. But it, on Amazon Prime, that was the, from his movie, that was the most subscriptions that they received. No way. Yes. Wow. And why do you think that was? Was it like a relatable concept or what was it? I think he has built a fan base that loves his content.

52:30And he shoots his content what he like. like he directs it and it's like this is what he loves this is what he's do you think he also represents a movement yeah and i think because of his and what i learned too is your fan base really want you to make it yeah they do i'm gonna support you like when i post like ads back then when i post them ah here's an ad and that was from like adults but now when i post like a brand deal with inside my content. Yay, Kineka, you got a brand deal. You moving on up. I'm going to check out the website. Everybody click the link. So I think it's that connection that you have with your fan base, and they know your story.

53:13They're connected with you. They want you to grow. And so from that standpoint, it was, okay, I am not the only person who can tell a story. I'm not. like this person can tell the story and they see it differently and my audience can still connect to that same story it may not be how i shoot it or how i would film it but let this person be just as creative because they have to learn and now they are amazing with how they direct and some of it i still think it's terrible like i watch it i'm like so you're becoming like you're becoming like the executive producer yeah you are netflix yeah on youtube it's fascinating that you call yourself a streaming service yeah so that that what you mean by that is like a variety of different types of content that's directed by different people with different casts in them yes and do you consider these like different shows that are on your channel yeah i i guess different genres because i kind of like i kind of like box them into different genres like this is comedy this is you know sci-fi this is because kind of like on Netflix you can go by the genre and I kind of look at it that way but within it within that genre you may not like that video or you may love this particular video so but I'd look at them all as like movies or if it's a series I look at it as almost like a tv series right so yeah yeah so what does the studio look like today Because three TV-style, TV-length episodes every week is wild.

54:49Yeah. How many people is that? What does your studio, your infrastructure look like? Well, it started in my home, which shooting a skit, or starting shooting skits in your home and then moving to shooting films in your home. It's like work and home. No, anyway. so what we end up doing was our studio what it looks like now which if you come if you guys come busy i'm like wait this is how you guys create this yeah anyway um we have like uh three houses that we just bought to like we only film in them so those are like we call them skid houses even though i'm a name i'm gonna rechange it they're film houses so we call them skid houses but now just changed it to film houses.

55:31So now they're film houses. And then we have two, like a really large building that we bought. We like demoed it out and it's a restaurant, but we haven't opened it yet for the public. We just, it's just for us right now. So you own a restaurant. But we film in it as well. Okay. And then the building. Is it a functional restaurant? There's like staff that serve, it's a full. We just like hire like a chef or something. Hey, come and cook first. Got it. Got it. And then the building right attached to it was actually a church. And we wanted that building. And I don't know, like I said, God. Anyway, he was ready to move.

56:10And we bought the building that's adjacent to it. And that's going to end up being like where we're going to start probably doing live shows. Like it's a big ballroom. We're going to make it be like a. Oh, wow. Yeah, it's huge. And then that particular area is now being, it's going to be like a really big entertainment district. So you're becoming like a real estate mogul. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And we also have properties, too, that we are buying. That's Reggie's side. He's like, look at this property. Okay, yeah, if you like it, whatever. I get it. Oh, wow. This is all in Alabama. This is all in Alabama.

56:40Yeah. And so that's the filming studios. Now, so pre-production, we have, including me and my husband, four writers. so and actually one of the actors Roman he writes and he learned how to write he learned how to direct and some of it is like this guy it's like this was beautiful some of the pieces of content that he directed anyway and so but sometimes he just he may he's not gonna write consistent it's only when he's inspired so he's like yeah there's different types of creatives and he's like those kids they're not listening to me so no I'm not I'm over I'm not writing for a long time I'm directing for a minute.

57:21But anyway, so four consistent writers, including me and my husband. And then production-wise, we have... four directors, including me and my husband. and we have two camera crews. Each camera crew consists of two cinematographers, a sound person, and a gaffer for lighting. And then we have like cast between like 40, about 40 to 50 actors that can come and act. 40 or 50 actors. Yeah. And those are like freelance, you hire them. Yeah, freelance. Yeah. And are they all from Alabama? Yeah. Well, sometimes they fly in like from Atlanta, but the majority is in Alabama. So you've created like a bit, because I imagine like the entertainment scene in Alabama was not a thing.

58:11So you kind of have created this new culture in Alabama. Do you think that's like a conversation that happens in Birmingham of like it's an aspiration to become an actor in your studio? Oh, definitely. That's so interesting. Anytime I'm out and a kid see me or something, hey, can I be in your videos? I'm like, you actually can. you want to do an improv session right now? Let's see. Hey, I'm your stepmom and I'll do it on set. And they're so excited to do it. And actually that's how some of them have become on like some of our actors. Like it started with just all family. Then it became friends of family.

58:45Then it became friends of friends. And now it's like, or sometimes it's just, I'm in Publix and I noticed this girl that like, oh my gosh, she looked like a perfect actress. and then she turned out to be crazy good at acting. And it was like, you're amazing, but I also done that before and it's like, you are terrible, but it's okay. And are they like, is there like a, are they starting to become part of like, are any of them part of like the union? Like Screen Actors Guild or anything like that? No, this is like Alabama, just a freelance, straight up YouTube. Yeah, yeah. Because Alabama is the, it's not like L.A.

59:27You know, I know L.A. has like a lot of like different guidelines and things. But in Alabama, it's like you can film. Yeah, it's all new. Yeah, exactly. You're going to be paving the path for what that looks like in Alabama. Is the future of this that, you know, the actors and actresses move to L.A. and get involved in traditional Hollywood? Is that where you're moving? Or is it eyes set on Birmingham? let's build here it's a little bit of both because some of the kids of course you know they want to be in some shows and i and i'm like that is fine you could definitely do those shows but do not stop your youtube channel do not go do those shows and then forget about youtube you do that show if you know if you're gonna audition and whatever which they because some of them are older now and they just graduated high school so they're creating content still But they still, like, now it's like, I have nothing but time.

1:00:20You know, and so they still want to go and do those things. So they want to be in both worlds. But I'm like, make sure you're still in both worlds. Are you managing these kids? Are you, like, representing them? Or how to, like, is there any economic connection between you guys? At first, like, and I remember my husband on the business side, can you, you should definitely. And I'm like, no, I'm not. I'll just show them how to do it. And they can take it from there. We did recently start, like, a management company. And so we had, we signed on one of the actors and we filmed on Top Melo. We filmed and edited a lot of his videos, came up with the topics and it looked like a complete TV show.

1:00:59But I'm not going to lie, it's a complete headache. Yeah. That's a different thing. It's a different thing. And so I really like just inspiring them and wanting them to just push their own content to the highest level that they can. so but as far as like having a percent of them because they get their following really comes from the channel right that's where it drives their channels but i don't know i just feel like we're all in one big ecosystem so if you become a big creator it still is going to help yeah it's going to help the show if it's so we're just doing this all we're doing is recycling our audience and growing yeah i mean i think if you think about like uh snl or actually any of the reality shows like a Love Island, like the bigger the cast gets, the bigger the franchise of the show gets.

1:01:45And at the end of the day, you own the franchise of, you know, your channel and your show. So it's counterintuitive because immediately from a business perspective, you're like, oh, yeah, I'm essentially managing this. I'm creating talent and managing them. But it does make sense. And I think in our new media system, it is kind of like, hey, you're going to come on the show, but then you build your own thing. Yeah. You know? Right. And it does get, it gets a little sticky because sometimes there's like competitive brand deals. It is. Where it's like, okay, now our biggest actor is getting offered a brand deal from a brand that also spends with us.

1:02:21Yeah. Are they going to move their budget over here? Right. So it does get confusing. And I think like as time goes on, people will continue to figure this out. Right. But I do think it's a healthy move to allow actors to just build their thing and teach them how to do it. Who has the biggest following and how big is that from the cast? Okay, the biggest following, I think, is Roman. Yeah, I'll say Roman. But he's also one of those kids that's like just truly a leader. It's crazy. From the beginning, he's just, he learned how to act better because in the beginning, he was terrible. But he just kept going.

1:03:02and um they have that group which is wto so this is they they all come to our like film houses and we let them create so they meet every week and he's the one that's like organizing that oh they can use the set they can use the sets to like film their own content and then he's the one that's over it he's the one making sure that hey are you guys creating and so he's creating this like bun between them. And so, yeah. And on TikTok, he has a big following. How many people follow him on TikTok? I think he's almost at 2 million on TikTok. Cool. And then on YouTube, I think he's somewhere around maybe 600 ,000 to 700 ,000 subscribers.

1:03:45The one who would have been the biggest, my bonus baby. She just, like her following, they, in the beginning, like they love Ari. Yeah. Ari just so critical about her content sometimes. It's like she will film a whole video and it's like, Ari, I'm telling you they're going to love this video. I don't like it. She's not going to put it out. Yeah. And also another one of the actors that has a really just wholesome following is Serif. And they've been filming with me for like from the beginning. And her name's Serif World and she's just an amazing actress. like she is one of those ones that truly it is kind of scary it's like because i feel like if like say netflix or someone discovers her i'm like don't don't take sarah because she's so good but she's so freaking good she can cry this she does this look if romance she can nail it then the question becomes you know like we saw these big overall deals happen in hollywood with a lot of showrunners.

1:04:51Actually, one of the most notable one was J.J. Abrams, which is someone we spent time with together at the Spotter Summit earlier this year. But what that looks like is a big network like a Netflix or an Amazon comes to a showrunner and says, here's 200 million. I think it was Warner with J.J. was like$250 million here. Come make stuff for us, right? Have you had any of those conversations with streamers? Is it Netflix or a Prime Video? But I would love You would take that call? I definitely would take that call. I would love to do that. I wouldn't stop doing my YouTube. That's challenging to do that.

1:05:27What would you do differently if they came to you and they're like, here's a ton of money. Here's a ton of creative freedom. What would you change? It would be maybe like, because now I have this really big budget. Oh, man. We would have makeup artists. We would have complete set design. like we would have like what wardrobe stylist we would do so much so many things that kind of like because YouTube is a little bit faster we probably would take more time on it and create like that would be probably the biggest thing we would take really more time on it to make sure it's perfect and how long does it take you to make an episode for YouTube oh a day a day to film it oh to film it to film it let's go like start okay start Okay.

1:06:17Start to finish. Start to finish. Okay, so if I write a script, or if me and Reggie write a script, it'd probably take us anywhere from an hour or two hours to write a script. Okay. To film it, it's going to take— And that's for like a 30-minute script? Yeah. Oh, wow. It's like, especially once you have the, like, concept. Now, when you don't have the concept, I don't know, you just be sitting there until procrastination hits, and it's, ah! And then again, it's about two hours. so yeah that's about I'd say it take about two hours to film because sometimes I don't write the full script I know exactly what it's gonna be I'll just kind of give myself notes and then give the actors that script and then tell them hey y 'all know I'm gonna probably change this when we get on set and they know I'm a completely different director from Reggie Reggie marries the script I don't so we're two different directors you better know those lines when it come with Reggie because if you try to improv something he's gonna say no but me I love improv.

1:07:14I like for you to know the character. Know the character. Don't memorize those lines. Anyway, so from there, we'll film probably like eight to eight between eight and 12 hours to finish the 30 minute script. And then editing once they have given us back a video within 24 hours because I did not want to miss my posting day. And yeah, but it wasn't the best, but it could have been so much better. But we still, it was the turnaround was in 24 hours. But ideally, it takes like three days. Three days. Three days, ideally. For an episode of essentially television. Yeah. Now, if it's like effects, then add maybe like another day.

1:08:00Damn. Yeah. That's crazy. and so are you filming like how far out are you batching your production uh probably around a week to two weeks because one time yeah one time though we were ahead like a month it was horrible though like i we were filming in august for october so here i am in august filming like i'm like oh halloween now we can do all type of halloween type content for october horrible horrible idea Every Halloween video was like, no, it was not performing. And I had all these videos for Halloween that I just had to post. So it was like, yeah. Interesting. So you're not as nimble if you're batch producing.

1:08:42Exactly. You can react to the audience and react. And react. Exactly. Interesting. Yeah. So that's really different when it comes to scripted content. Because also television has moved into the binge model, which is make 10 episodes and put it all out. Hope the audience likes it. Yep. Right? But you're going like, you can have a three-day turnaround or four-day turnaround if you're like, ooh, that didn't work. Or, oh, wow, they got really invested in that storyline. Now this is a series. Let's follow up. Yep. Now this is a series. Damn, that's crazy. Yeah. You can do that that fast. Yeah. Like one of the series, Vampires.

1:09:14Vampires, it was supposed to be a one-episode thing. It was like, this is one episode. Let's try it. It performed really well. And then it became, that's where we shifted from, it started as kind of comedy. But then I remember saying, I mean, I would rather this, I love Twilight and I hate that this is so comedy. I don't want this comedy vampire thing. Episode three, we changed the complete genre of it. It became drama. And I remember first watching it like, oh my gosh, is my audience going to like this? Because it's not funny. It's like serious. It did so well. And then we were like, oh, well, wait a minute.

1:09:52We can do all of this. We can do comedy. We could do dramas. We could do serious sci-fi things. And so that's where vampires, that series is what birthed us going and not limiting ourselves only to comedy. Very cool. Yeah. And then also in the nimble nature of this, what's the cost of a production to make an episode? Okay, let's see. Let me calculate this. It depends on how big of the cast is. But if say if the cast is only like four, four actors or something, let's see. And let's say it's a 30 minute video. I want to say somewhere around five to 6 ,000. Wow. That's amazing. Yeah. Because you, you take a step back and you think about like how the conversations that we've had, some of which we've, we, we had in Montana about like, can you bring scripted content to YouTube?

1:10:51Like a lot of people in Hollywood, especially after the strike, I think people were like, should we just go to YouTube? Should we control our own destiny? Yeah. Right. Directors, showrunners are now looking at it, but they're used to million dollar budgets. Yeah. You're talking about a five to$6 ,000 per episode budget. Yeah. Yeah. So that like to get comfortable, because I think about like how does scripted content work in the future on YouTube? People would have to get comfortable with those type of budgets. They would. What's crazy is. But that also changes the dynamic of crew and cast. And obviously you're in Alabama, so that's different from LA or, yeah.

1:11:28I think it would be actually cheaper in LA. I do. Like in Alabama, you have to pull from Atlanta. And so now I have to find a crew that would actually drive and travel here and consistently travel here. So it's a lot harder. And so, but in LA, I feel like it's much easier to do this type of content because you have aspiring actors who are not even getting any type of jobs or gigs because it's so competitive there. And then you have, I think the hardest thing in LA is the locations, where to film. Yeah, right. And see in Alabama, I can film wherever. I can go in the grocery store and say, hey, can I get this scene?

1:12:08Yeah, cool. You can. Like find the owner and like, hey, this restaurant, I could easily. Do people know you too? Yeah. When you walk in, are they like, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, okay, I'll pan down from your name of your restaurant. And so it's the difference. The hardest thing is getting the crew, like finding the crew because no one wants to move to Alabama. It's finding the crew and finding the cast. And so that's why our cast was like, technically you see an actor and it's like, their acting probably isn't the best right now, but just give it time. They're going to be in more videos and they're going to grow as an actor.

1:12:43Do you envision creating like an academy or something like that in Alabama to train crew? I want to actually create a content house where, and me and Rachel, we've talked about this many times, like having a place where we have like maybe three levels. It's like a house. It's three levels. On the bottom level, it's like maybe a gaming station down there. The second level has like green screen and places to like shoot content. And then upstairs is maybe like some computers with editing and then host like seminars and have them actually come in and teach how to become a creator. What's the thumbnail?

1:13:17What's CTR? What's these things that you really don't know when you start out as a creator? Like you have no idea what these. And I still really want to come to analytics. I don't really know, you know. But the things that everyone should know, like I probably don't know like 70 % of people watch me on TV. Like they had to tell me that. But the things that I do know is, okay, my 48 hours, because I don't really look at the individual video views. I make sure my overall, I care about my overall channel performance. The overall channel. And so, and that's what I even tell like the creators. Hey, don't watch that little video.

1:13:55Don't get discouraged because it only hit less than 30 ,000 views today. Look at your overall. That's what you want to kind of see. Is that growing? Is that going down? Because now something needs to change. So I look at kind of that stuff and your click-through rate, your title. How are they clicking on this video? How long are they watching it? It's the intro. Did they fade off? How long are they staying on that video? And it's called retention. And I, at the time, I didn't even know, you know, it's a retention analytic. But anyway, but those are the things that I think are very important to know.

1:14:30The overly analytic stuff, I don't think, I think it's important, but I don't think that's what should drive your content. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Where does your validation come from today? Because I hear you talking and I'm like, okay, you want to make an academy or you want to do some instruction? Wouldn't the University of Alabama want to reach out and do something? I hear you talking about recreating Hollywood in Alabama. I'm like, aren't people in Hollywood? Like, someone must be reaching out. I'm curious, like, do you have any of these validation moments today? I'll say the biggest, which, like, I love YouTube because I'll say they are, like, the biggest advocates because they are helping, like, market.

1:15:09like public like you know publishings and like getting me in in articles because beforehand no one i've never even like i remember trying to get verified on instagram and it's like how many articles you got i don't have any but i got this many subscribers i get this many views but you still won't verify me okay cool um but no um that i think i just i think that's one of the things that i suck at too is just marketing myself for people to like even hear my story or know my story, this is my first podcast or coming on to actually talk about what it is that I do. And so I think I just need to get better at that and finding the team to help push that.

1:15:52And like I said, YouTube is actually, they're pushing, getting more people knowing who we are and what we do. And I think the more people learn about it, the more they'll become invested. it what does the mix of revenue look like for the studio like how does how does canigra dion make money how do okay the majority comes from adsense and at the time like i'll i remember comparing myself and i remember i was even talking to spotter i was like how am i in this room with these some of these people who have like you know tens of millions of subscribers And, you know, they didn't tell me their figures, but they were kind of like, you do know your revenue is like around the same as theirs.

1:16:41And I'm like, how am I used? And it was like, I don't know. I have some really high CPM and RPMs. So the majority of my revenue comes from AdSense. We recently signed with Night Media. And now we're getting a bunch of brand deals. Like I do maybe three brand deals a month. And so that's the second tier And then we're getting ready to work on merchandise Because before then I just didn't have the time To even work on building merch And so now we're working on that piece And then I'll say the biggest investor was Spotter When they came in and bought the back catalog Because that's when I was really able to pay for More camera crews, more editors, more writers I'm able to take those funds and invest now into the company And so that was like the biggest thing.

1:17:32And I think our first deal with them was in 2022. And we've done multiple deals with them. You've done multiple deals. Yeah. Licensing the back catalog revenue. And it doesn't affect us either. It helps because we produce so much content anyway. Yeah, right. It's like, yeah. And so you get the capital basically. You do the deal with Spotter. You get like a lump sum of capital essentially in exchange for them having the revenue rights on the back catalog. is that what's also pushing towards like you being able to buy a studio yeah buy a studio and a soundstage yes yeah all of those real estate everything got it so now we have the upfront capital to do things outside of just youtube as well yeah so yeah that's i think that's like a huge unlock i think like when you do a deal like that because we we've done a deal with spotter as well.

1:18:24And you do a deal like that and you know where to put the cash. Yeah. Like I always recommend when creators are in a space where like I know how to put gas on this fire. You should do a deal like that. Yep. Because then you take the cash immediately and you go pour the gas on the fire and then it can get way bigger. And it's a unique opportunity we have as creators. Like not many people, unless you are a YouTube creator, you don't have that financing option. No. Right? Like you're going and taking out a loan. You have a big music catalog. Hopefully you can get the loan and you're looking at interest rates.

1:18:53This is a totally different way of financing. What's crazy is the second deal before we, like you were saying, Spotter was like, hey, we want to do this deal. I'm like, I have no idea what I'm doing with that money. So no, I can't. I have no idea what I'm going to do with that money. There's no point in me getting it until I know exactly what I'm going to do. Then I would do the deal. And I think that's really important because there's no point of just having this cash that you're not going to invest in. I think there's also a lot of fear with creators, right? Because it's all new. And I think when it's something that, I mean, you tell me if this is right, but it's something that you don't have and money is not a thing you had growing up.

1:19:31You get really afraid to lose it. And then like all these big decisions start getting really, there's a lot of fear wrapped up in these decisions. When I first did my first spotter deal, so me and Reggie, and it's like crazy, we're sitting in the house. I'm like, what is the catch? Why are they off? There's, I don't know. I don't trust it. I was so, because I never heard of this, right? And even the only reason why I heard of it is like my friend, his name is DeCarlo. He's like really big in LA as like a songwriter. He somehow found out about it and he brought it to me and he connected me with one of their reps.

1:20:07And that's how we even, that's how, because now you know about, everyone kind of knows about Spotter. But like in 2022, not too many people knew that this was some people that are investing, a company that's investing into your catalog. And the first deal, I had no idea. I was, I mean, we're Googling. We can't find anything. I'm like, I don't even know what my catalog is worth. I have no, like I had no idea. And so I remember when I finally signed and I sent it. And because Reggie was like, yeah, I think it's a good deal. You know, I'm like. I shouldn't have signed. He was like, why? You told me to sign.

1:20:47It's your fault. He was looking at me like, are you serious? Whatever. So, but I would say the relationship with Spotted, guys, it sounds like a Spotted ad, whatever. But the relationship with Spotted, though, even after signing that deal, the trust was grown. It was like I had blindsided, but now, because they do so much more, it's like they look at your analytics that I don't even look at. They help you get to like different events, different speaking events, other things that beforehand I had no connection to whatsoever. That's where we met for the first time. Yeah, it was. It was. So yeah, they actually do more than just invest in your catalog or buy your catalog.

1:21:30They invest in the creator. So I mean, again, like that, the Spotter Summit where we met and like where we get to meet people from outside of our industry. Yeah. And people from Hollywood and people like, that's not a thing that they have to do. Right. But it's a really great way for the entrepreneurial creators to meet each other. Yeah. People who are in this group that's like trying to innovate and trying to push the media landscape forward. So yeah, I agree with you. And I think though, I do think that right now is this interesting moment where there are creators like yourself who can use capital.

1:22:05Yes. Right? Yes. And like, also we have with our library, like you said it, creators should be looking at the value of your catalog. This is a whole new thing that's coming. That's like, wait, we've been on YouTube for like, how long? Six years? Okay. Yeah. It's not about, we are so focused on the next video. The next. The next video. And then like, just refreshing studio on the current video of like, is it, okay, it's an eight out of 10? Is it a seven now? Is it a six? Like, but you look back and you're like, but I've made a video every week for the past six years. Yeah. it's amazing that if you're a new creator it is hard to fathom that this could turn into something like when you're looking at your AdSense in the early days it's like no year two no year three at least for us unless you're a Canadian for us first year of AdSense we made$4 ,000 total wait year?

1:22:54year second year across the year was like 16 yeah we looked at each other we did this for so long with it not working I mean we went back and watch some of our old videos last night. It makes total sense that we didn't make any money. The fact that we had any level of confidence in ourselves is a miracle. I feel like we were saying it should be like an ad of like, if these guys can do it, you can do anything. Like they should show our old titles and thumbnails on a billboard and be like, it gets better. It's a creator. I just, I didn't even go, I wanted to go to the show, but I didn't. I think they're Lucas, but they're the Sticks brothers.

1:23:29Yeah, Sticks brothers. They create these movies. They're amazing. They should definitely do a movie with you guys. I think it would be really dope to see that portion of it. I would love that. Yeah, that would be really dope to see. I don't know how to ask that question. Yeah, right. Hey, you guys do a movie for us. I know you guys spend a lot of time on these movies. Have you thought about doing one on us? Honestly, you guys are the first. You know, I had never thought about it when Knieger brought it up. It wasn't us who said it. I mean, that'd be cool. Yeah, you said I said it. But yeah, because you guys are really the first creator where I could click and find out about how to be a creator.

1:24:01Because back then, especially starting out, there wasn't like this group of, hey, this is where the creators come and get together. You really don't know how someone else is running their business or their models. And so I remember learning about you all's channel. And it's like, I'm just watching these interviews. And I'm like, well, this person who's this big, huge YouTuber is having this struggle. Like it started making me not seem so small. It was more like I'm now connected. like we all have this same problem. And so, okay, they overcame it. Okay, I can overcome it. Man, that hits me. That's so amazing.

1:24:40It's like so much the goal with the show. Oh yeah, it definitely does that. So yeah, it's dope. Yeah. What was your first brand deal? And how do brand deals work with scripted content? Okay. Oh gosh, my first brand deal was with Manscaped. Manscaped? Yes. Really? Because back then it was adult content. Okay, got it. It was so— Was it a male audience? Yes, it was a male audience. Interesting. At least it's a company that's still around. Yeah, it is. A lot of creators, we ask them, what's your first brand deal? And they're like, ooh, they're not around anymore. Yeah, it was Manscaped. And I cannot believe—they didn't even ask for the script because they should have.

1:25:19Because I played a guy. It was horrible. I was like— It is a horrible video. I don't even know how. I'm like, I'm playing this guy. Anyway, yeah, that was the first one. And I think they gave me, back then, it was like$3 ,000. That was my first video. And I think like my biggest brand deal came from YouTube. Brand Connect. Brand Connect, yes. And I remember when they put the offer in there. And I was like, I don't know. I don't think, I don't know if I could say it. I don't know. Anyway, it was$50 ,000, right? Yeah. And I'm like, this is like Reggie at the time right here. They just offered me$50 ,000 to do this freaking video.

1:26:03I could do this video like in one day. This small, like just to show the computer. I could do that easy. You know, this is, they're paying for this. I had no idea because my first brand deal, anytime I would get a brand deal in the past, it would be something solo, like maybe$1 ,500 or something like that. And when I went start, you know, to Brand Connect, it was like, whoa, they look at my content and my audience and my viewership this valuable, you know? So now it's like changing how I'm starting to even look at what an ad actually means on my channel. Because at first I'm just thinking of, you know, YouTube ads.

1:26:45And even then it's starting to make sense why ads from YouTube, how they even view, you know, like the channel. So it's now when it comes to scripted content, it is really difficult to make a brand see how you can be valuable for them. Because usually they want this. Hey, this video is sponsored by make sure you click. And that is not how it is in scripted. I incorporate it into the acting. Interesting. So they may be sitting there playing the game and they're like, what game is that? Oh, you know, and then they start within the script and then it still goes through the storyline. Oh, interesting.

1:27:27Yeah. And how do you like do, and this is getting into the weeds, but how do you do like a sponsorship disclosure in that context? So they still want like CTA, like so the description right there. And then probably before, right after the intro, I will just say, hey, this video is supposed to be Got it. Wow. Interesting. Yeah. I mean, that's how it works again in television. It's product. So the thing that's really interesting is product placement. I wish they would. Hasn't come to our industry. But it's going to have to, right? It's going to have to. Especially if you're making scripted content.

1:27:56Right. And so if it was product placement only without having to come up with the script, because it would be more natural. It's way more natural. It's more natural. And I think it would do better for the brand. TV is allowed to do it. Yeah. TVs and movies are allowed to do it, but we're not allowed to do it. No. But at some point, that has to be reevaluated. Yeah. Because, again, like YouTube occupies the most amount of streaming watch time on TVs. Your content's being viewed on TV. So like someone watching your content is the exact same thing as someone watching a Netflix show where they're allowed to do product placement and we're not.

1:28:28I think it's one of the most important changes that needs to happen in our industry. I agree. I agree. It has to happen. I agree. Yeah. Now I feel like we should go like. Like lobby. Yeah. Yeah. Like, yeah. Like, yeah. product placement but you should be getting like an overall deal with a car company right right right there's no doubt from the symbol yeah yeah you shouldn't have to do a disclaimer every time every time it shouldn't yeah exactly um and it's crazy when we were me and reggie we were talking about because it's we found kind of like a a natural way to incorporate the script into the the the I meant the the the add into the script but it would be so nice if like say Nike and they say here we're going to give you this new Nike tech and these shoes and we just want only that video in there if that was every video he has on this nice outfit this cool guy and then we could even because now YouTube even has where you can tag the the actual product yeah then something even as simple as that, I think would probably be better for the actual company than, oh, you see my Nike outfit?

1:29:35Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. It's because it doesn't, it's not as natural. Again, it's like culture, ideology. This is what comes from your favorite show. Right. Like whatever show you watch, that's what drove kind of how you dressed and all that. So. Exactly. That's what's happening. And I think that, again, like product placement is totally allowed in traditional media. And so, yeah. I mean, ads are one thing that I think are a difference in scripted content. Titles and thumbnails are the other thing. Yes. Right? I think about that. Now we're starting to see scripted content come onto YouTube.

1:30:07There's a creator named Cassius that we just saw who's making a scripted show. There's another creator in our audience, Dana and the Wolf. But even Rhett and Link with Wonderhole? Rhett and Link with Wonderhole. But they're trying, they're like moving in the direction of trying to, like Rhett and Link with their show Wonderhole, they have like, their first episode was like, we took most expensive airline flight, which is a YouTube concept. So they went YouTube title thumbnail, scripted content. How are you thinking about titles and thumbnails for scripted content? I'll give you like my background in the title and thumbnail.

1:30:45At first, I would just use, sweaty YouTube suggested and I'll click it. Right. That's how it started. And then I saw creators like, they're not, these, these look very edited or something. Why are their YouTube thumbnails so much clearer? So then I learned, okay, I have to do something else. And so then I start editing them myself. Still sucked. Still horrible. And I would, I wouldn't take it beforehand. I would just take a clip from the video and try to piece together the best looking thumbnail from the actual video. And then I'm like, well, maybe I should take a picture or something because it's so hard to find a clip within the video sometimes.

1:31:22And so then I started doing that, but I was still editing the thumbnail. Got it. This is the game changer right here. Before it was two game changers. I'm going to give you the first one. And I'm going to say it. Preston, I started looking at his thumbnails and Preston, like Preston plays? Preston plays. Yes. And I'm like, these are freaking good. This could go with one of my concepts. Like this right here could easily be one of my concepts, but I don't know how to create this. And so I went on Fiverr and I'm like, I need someone. Can you create this when most of them know I can or someone say they can.

1:31:58And then when I get it back, what was that? But no, I found a guy who could do the exact same thing And I start taking it and I'm like, that was, I really needed someone else to create this thumbnail because I don't have any talent, knowledge whatsoever in that piece. And so the first step it came from was stealing from other creators because we have completely different genres. And how did I find him was at Creator Summit from, what, was it two years? I think it was two years ago. And then that's how I even found this channel. I'm like, these are some really good thumbnails. But I had no idea at the time how to do them.

1:32:41Anyway, so that's where it started. And then it went to, oh, I can go back to movies and try to, like one movie, it's Maleficent, right? And then I have this video about a witch, but I could kind of use that. I love that thumbnail of Maleficent on the movie. Like, it's just her with the horns and she's standing out. And I think she has this red apple and she's in all black. And so then I start kind of doing it that way. Now, the second game changer is Spotter Studio. Gosh, it sounds like a spotter ass. Like, anyway, it was Spotter Studio. And I just, you know, it's so hard to come up with a thumbnail when it's not, when the concept, it's like when your video encompasses so many different things, it's kind of hard to find a thumbnail that just represent the totality of that video.

1:33:40And so by putting in that concept now, it gives me some really good ideas. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like... The mock-ups I've seen from your channel are really good. They're good because they're better than what I would have came up with. Because even if I do, I may only come up with one. So then I can't do A-B testing because I'm like, I don't have another one. I don't know what the, you know. And then now I can get at least three thumbnails, send that to the guy from Fiverr. And he's like, oh, yeah, I can make this. And he makes it like, he's like, this is a very good... Because now, because before the Spotter Studio, I had to try to describe what I wanted.

1:34:20Right. Now he can actually visualize and see it. And now it's like game changer. So you go like concept into Spotter Studio that gives you an AI mock-up. Yep. Right? That's like a graphic design. Yep. From there, you take an actual photo and then you send that to the designer. Yes. Because I've seen there was one that you made that was like… The boxing one? Not the boxing one. It was, um, there's one of your actors and then there's a bunch of dolls. Oh yeah. There's a bunch of dolls. Yeah. That was like, that was a really interesting mock-up that came from studio. And I haven't seen anything like that.

1:34:54Yeah. And I'd never seen like a, that, that concept. And then you were able to recreate that seamlessly. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. I think that is something that, you know, Colin and I were on a call with a journalist yesterday and we're explaining the, the, how important titles and thumbnails are to the point where we were talking about how we have, or Colin has a weekly call with a thumbnail consultant, right? Jay Alto, that Colin. Oh yeah, he's really cool. Yeah. Jay's awesome. And she was shocked that there is like a thumbnail consultant. But then we were also talking about the concept that at a Netflix or an Amazon Prime video, the people who work on those thumbnails, that's a whole department with like incredible analytics and their A-B testing.

1:35:37Like when you go on to Netflix, you see different tiles constantly. But the director or the showrunner also is not thinking about the image that's going to get someone in, right? They're just like, I'm going to make the best piece possible. Yeah. The thing too with Netflix, which I was even telling YouTube when I went to the leadership panel thing. Anyway, I was saying with Netflix, Netflix knows I love, love movies, right? Right. They know my husband loves action drama. There may be a love movie, right, that has action and drama. In his profile, it's a guy and a girl staring into each other's eyes, right?

1:36:21I mean, not his, my profile. It's a guy and a girl staring into each other's eyes. In his, it may be a guy with like a gun and a bullet shot. And we both would click on that. But if I only saw his, I wouldn't click it. And if he saw mine, he wouldn't click on that video. And so I wish that for scripted content that we were able, because sometimes my video has multiple themes in it, and sometimes it's hard to create the thumbnail that represents the full video. And so with A-B testing, it's similar, but it's not the same as I'm going to send this video thumbnail to this particular person because this particular person clicks on romance or this type of content.

1:37:10So I'm sure that's coming. I think it's coming. Because that's not just for scripted content. That would be helpful for us, even with some of our guests, like for this episode, right? There's a version of the thumbnail that prioritizes you and a quote next to you. And that's like for fans of you. Right. Right. But then there's a version of the thumbnail probably with Samir and I in it as well and you. That would be better for our audience. Yes. Makes it more familiar to our audience. So rather than like an A-B test just to see which one is better, let's serve them to the right people. Yes. Yeah.

1:37:39And this comes to a point where we were talking to Todd Beaupre who works at YouTube and he runs the algorithm. He's known as the algorithm. Yeah. He's like part of the discovery and growth team. He leads that up. but he was pushing me and us on a call to think about the concept of familiarity, which is what you're describing. What Reggie is familiar with. He's going to click on what he's familiar with. And I thought about that in the context of you with 94 % returning viewers, like your goal as a creator is to establish familiarity with an audience. If you are a new creator, your goal is to establish familiarity with what your audience is currently watching.

1:38:17Yes. Right? So kind of what you're saying is like, if you're looking for a comedy fan base, you need to deeply study what they're clicking on in comedy content on YouTube that's similar to what you want to make. Look at the aesthetic. Look at what they're like. Look at what they are familiar with. And then the goal as you become an established creator is to have such clear cut branding that when you open your YouTube TV app or your mobile device or on a desktop, you just can add a quick scan, see like, oh, that's a Cinegrideon video. I'm familiar with that. I want to click on that. So I thought that was a really interesting note.

1:38:52It's not an analytic. It's just more of a discussion around human behavior. We're going to do the thing we're familiar with. So as a creator, we need to create visually an aesthetics that people are familiar with, that they'll click on. One of the hardest things you brought up, branding the thumbnail, so that when they see it, that they know that it's you. With scripted content, a lot of the times, if you're not the main character, it is hard to make sure that they know that this is your video. One person that does it really well, it's like even if someone mimics his freaking thumbnail, it still brands him.

1:39:29And that's Dhar Mann. He has a thumbnail that that is, and I don't know how it works, but it works really well. The hardest thing is to, if you're not the main character, like for example, Mr. Beast, we know that's him. he's in the thumbnail. If he removes himself, you wouldn't know really that that's a Mr. Beast video. And so with scripted content, you're not usually, well, like Alan, he's right now, he's the main, and Alan Chikenshaw, he also creates scripted content. He's always in the thumbnail, but he's also one of the main actors. But what happens when he removes himself, how do he still brand that thumbnail as this is my video.

1:40:16That is where I'm struggling with is how to make sure that they know that this is my video. I'm probably going to create like a little symbol or something that goes in the top of the thumbnail that's like what I'm thinking about doing and see will they know that's me because the goal right now is to expand our cast as well and start filming in other locations like Atlanta, LA and go to these different places but without the cast or familiarity, how are they going to know that this is my cast? I saw you're putting it in the title, right? Yeah, and I do it in the title. So in the title, they'll see it.

1:40:52But like say if you're just, sometimes I'm, pictures, I look at the picture before I look at the title. Like before, I look at the picture before I look at the title. And sometimes I may just, this is the picture that gets me first. And a lot of times I just really, And that's one of the things I think I need to really work on is figuring out how to connect my thumbnail specifically for me. Like, no matter what, you know that that is my video, regardless who's in the thumbnail. How do you describe the audience? The audience? Yeah. I think it's families. Like, it's crazy. Interesting. The mom will come up to me.

1:41:32The dad will come up to me. The teenager, even the little kid. So it's a family that consumes my content. It's not just teenagers. It's them as a whole. And it's like, I was, where was it? VidCon. VidCon. Yeah, I was at VidCon this year. And I was walking. And one of the security ladies, she's like, Anikra. I'm like, hey, can you take a picture with me with your phone? I'm like, what am I going to do with my phone? You want to say, I can't take out my phone. I was like, well, here, pass your phone to me. We're going to sneak it. I'm pretending like it's mine. And I took a picture and gave it to her.

1:42:09And then I even did a video for her kid because they watched. She was like, when is the next? She knew what was like about one of the episodes. When is the next neighborhood video coming out? And I'm like, oh, wait, you watched that too. And so it's just a mixed audience. And I think the difference is I don't really know if I can go on the analytics, Like saying that it's majority women because it's really – on the TV, they're watching it together. But it's under their mom's account. Got it. So I think what you should do, considering that it's families that are watching, I think you should – because you do these like compilations at the end of a series.

1:42:50Yeah. Right? But I think you could do like a longer series finale and actually put it in theaters. I think you could rent theaters in your biggest markets because if families are watching, that's typically a really good ticket business because you get five people for household buying a ticket. Right. That's one of the things we're working with with Knight. Cinemark, we had a meeting. Well, we have a meeting this month with probably releasing one of our videos in one of their theaters in Huntsville just to see how it is. and that's going to be our, we're bringing back Vampire Season 5. Every comment, I don't care what I post, when is Vampire's coming?

1:43:32That's one of the hardest videos to film. But anyway, we did a lot for this video and it's going to come off like between, it's going to be between 45 to 60 minutes. Got it. Like the first episode. Yeah. And so that one, we're going to test in theaters first and then. bring it to YouTube. Man, it's so fun. I was watching The Crew, which is a 30-minute episode or mini-movie almost, and it was interesting seeing the fake little pistols, water pistols, and whenever there's a fight, it can't actually hit each other. And I think hearing that you're going into theaters or interested in that, I feel like you'll even look back at this moment and go, oh my gosh, what a wholesome time.

1:44:23what a like playful time even though it's already it feels like it's gotten so big yeah you can see how much bigger it's gonna get and you'll look back at these and be like wow i can't believe we were doing them like that one of the reasons why you see that orange pistol and like not true because there's um and i also talk about this in the leadership um panel um there is this one line in there about scripted content that says it still has to be known that it is not real. That right there, that statement there really puts a hole in scripted content because the goal of scripted content is for you to feel it, for you to feel that emotion, for you to connect to it.

1:45:05So the more real it feels, like you don't want to, I hate watching shows and I know they're acting and it's a horrible, you know what I mean? so I hate putting that orange gun up there but you need to know this is not real so that would be a pretty big difference if you go to a streamer yeah you go to right like if you go to Netflix or yeah on video like right you'll be able to make it way more real yeah because people accept that they're immersed in that story but the audience one of the top comments on that is like it gets me every time I love it yeah you know they're like here with you and they know it's play but they're still into it and the comment below it is i cried at this moment or that was so sad right right so you're like you're managing to do both which is really amazing yeah and that's probably like that'll be part of the lore right like maybe always you use orange pistols right like just because it's like even if you make a big movie eventually like even if they look even more real right but it's still orange yeah that would be cute can you just quickly talk about from a writing perspective how you write your your intros and your hooks or just even like the template of your writing style because i was watching like those montages in the beginning they get you yeah like you're interested right like even the one one for the crew got me the one for the crew is great the more recent one about the fight uh that i watched where like reggie turns around all dramatic like the january's like if you slipped you wouldn't have and i was like wait i want to what is this i want to watch this story it's crazy i hate that video he directed me and reggie we have two different directing styles i really want to tell when reggie you can't a video yeah well first mainly because of how he's shot yeah he always looks really cool like he's shot in like this cool lighting he like turns around and you're like that guy's cool he's not gonna play certain characters so and i'm surprised he even met he wrote that one and i'm surprised he even played a janitor but he's still this cool janitor he's cool janitor yeah like it's It's like, okay, but no, I actually love the story.

1:47:05And I'm not going to say I hate it. I didn't like the intro because I feel like it was a little bit too slow. And I feel like inside of the actual video, there were some really good moments. That they didn't use. A lot of times, too, I've learned to just do this a lot because I don't want to overwhelm my team. But when I direct it, you're going to feel that overwhelming. And you're going to feel the intro being a little bit different. So to me, I'm glad that you liked that intro. I didn't. Interesting. It was like, it could have showed more of the story of this girl is struggling with things that are happening at her home, which is why she's fighting.

1:47:44And now she's getting ready to get this outlet of becoming now a professional. It's not just about the fight. It's not a, yeah, it's not about the inside of why is she even getting into. Yes. And she had to actually work her butt off to even become that. And that is inside the story. So that's one of the intros I didn't like, but it's also one of the ones I didn't comment on. I just, Reggie, that's what you like. That's part of that mind shift though of streaming service. Yeah. It's like, you're running a streaming service. Yes. Right. You have notes after. Yeah. Yeah. So have you ever thought about paywalling content?

1:48:16If you can like, like asking people to pay to watch the Oh, okay. Um, we were thinking about like, like Patreon or something like that. Or even like just, you know, like the try guys built their own subscription platform, right? Called second try where you pay a monthly fee to be able to watch the episodes yeah they're first there and then they're on youtube oh wow but that could work for you that definitely could yeah or even just some exclusive things exclusives behind the scenes behind the scenes because then you also do you want to see the like the fight scene sometimes you cut before the punch i do or either you can see that it's not connected but you could actually do the fight scene i could do the fight and just cut it on YouTube and go, you want to see the fully uncensored version of this?

1:48:58Right? Like, or you want to see the one where they do curse or you want. Yeah. Or we don't use the orange. Pistol or. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. So it's like, actually screw when Netflix gives you a deal, give yourself the deal and let the audience fund it at five bucks a month to get it early. And like, if that security guard is saying, when's the next episode? It's like, yeah, they probably want it early. True. That's interesting. I like that. Yeah. I need to figure out actually how that would work. like i i don't like i don't even have a website i have one there's a there's so many service providers for this okay like now like you will talk to the try guys yeah yeah i think i would i can connect you with them and like have a conversation with them but like um yeah there's a lot of options for that now okay okay cool yeah that's that's really yeah that actually would be nice to do it's so much we could actually do with totally yeah no that's good so why do you think even today there's not as many female creators on YouTube?

1:49:52Like why are there not as many women doing what you're doing, whether scripted or unscripted? I think if you start, well, okay, I'll start with why I think scripted. Okay. If you start with film in general, most men go to school for film and TV. Got it. A lot of women try to go for acting or actresses to become more so actresses. So when it comes to script it, it's more I will be the actual involved in, but I'm not over the full production. I'm just over this one particular piece, which is acting. Because that's like, when I was in LA, there were actually a couple of actresses who felt that, I was like, why you don't have your own channel?

1:50:41One of the reasons was because I'm a real actress. I'm like, well, you're being in this person's YouTube video. What's the difference? Well, it's not mine. It's not my brand. My brand is I'm a real actress. And it didn't make sense. I'm like, well, what makes your acting real is really acting. And I think YouTube, I think it's just, I don't know. I don't, I really, every woman that I did meet, they got discouraged so quick because they didn't have a lot of women doing this content. So with the men, they, oh, I'll talk to you. I can talk to him. I know him. We meet up. I may meet you at the bar.

1:51:27We meet up. But if you're a woman, you don't know too many people doing the exact same kind of content. So if I started, I probably will get discouraged a lot quicker because I have no one to go to to figure this out. Because it wasn't a woman who helped me figure it out. It was a man. And so I think that's number one. It kind of creates this same cycle of there's not many women in this. It's not many people I can go to to figure this out. And it's still, and even with being a creator, it's really not many platforms, even like you all, to even figure someone telling you how to do it, right? So I think that's one of the biggest problems that, and the reason why it probably didn't start with women is because men just dominated this field always for scripted.

1:52:18Now, for I think YouTube with unscripted and why it wasn't why isn't as many women and why so dominated by men is I think the nature of YouTube at first. It was like go viral, do the most viral things and do smash in there. You know, it was almost like what was that jackass that that TV show? It was almost like that kind of content on YouTube. that was more men that did that than women. And then you start seeing women start coming into the channels with more makeup and beauty, you know, lifestyle. It wasn't those still like it's not I don't even know if there is a woman channel similar to Mr. Beast where they're doing challenges and hey, I got this.

1:53:08The only one that I know that's doing even something similar to their own challenge is Michelle. And her content is freaking amazing. Yeah, it's super cool. It's freaking amazing. I was like, oh my gosh. When I met her, I was like, your content is so awesome. This is so dope. There's no other creator, especially a woman, that does what she does. And I think it started because a lot of men, the type of content that was getting pushed out on YouTube. And women would go into the space of what is stereotypical women things, makeup, beauty, lifestyle. And so it's just representation. I think the more that we show the Michelles, the Canigras, the Money Drias, the Tiffany Lawrence, the more we show these women, then the more people would see that.

1:54:00Because now women, like what's crazy after this panel, even on Instagram, there are girls now DMing me, asking me, hey, I'm having trouble with the thumbnail. That's cool. Yeah. It's like, hey, I do too. You should use this. And I've been using this. And so now the more that we're shown and we're seen, people know, let me watch. She's doing it. I can now do that too. Yeah. And I think it's going to grow over time. the more that women start just having the, I guess the knowledge and having the people that they can actually talk to about it. I never thought about it on like the peer-to-peer mentorship level of why that could be such a big roadblock.

1:54:45Yeah. Makes so much sense. So you shared with us your moonshot is to win an Emmy. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. How do you think that comes together? Do you think that the Emmys start to recognize what you're doing and like content. I can't, you can't even call it digital content because it's all being consumed the same way. Right. It's all internet video, right? Like we watch Netflix through the internet. Yeah. Like, is that how it happens? Or do you, like, how do you think that that - I think it's going to go, I don't, I have an article coming out that's there, emmy.com, I guess, I don't know. I think that's, but anyway, one of the guy, One of the reporters there, he interviewed me and we were talking about it.

1:55:31So I think it's the conversation is starting to happen because I think everyone is seeing the shift of creators are being these media production companies. Yeah. And they're seeing the type of content that is now being created. It's not. And what's crazy, I remember when Neil posted, they posted the article about him saying it's time for a YouTuber to receive an Emmy. in the comment section. And I go to the comment and it's so many people. Why? For them to create content in their room? Wait a minute. Okay? That is not what we do. And I think the more that people understand that creators are truly not just holding our phones up and trying to go for the next viral moment are just, you know, and now the conversation has started.

1:56:21I think it's going to do this. Someone is going to, I think it's going to probably happen somewhere next year because people love numbers. The numbers do not lie. People are watching. And the thing is, I think the company, the Emmy itself, that organization has, they have to be representative of TV. And that is what it's about and what is being consumed. It's not about what platform it is on. It is what is being consumed. What is the difference from watching a show on YouTube versus watching a show on Netflix? There's no difference. Yeah. And so I feel like they have a responsibility. I love that.

1:57:07And we'll be rooting for you as well as the rest of the creator space. This was awesome. No, thank you guys. I appreciate this. I appreciate what you guys are doing. you guys are like shaping like the creator economy and creators in general so this is needed and i hope you guys continue to grow and get bigger and bigger same to you thanks