Why YouTubers do things that don't make sense

0:00The Colin and Samir Show is supported by Microsoft Copilot. This is something I thought I would never say, but can I share with you my favorite prompt? I mean, like when you say something like that, I have to say yes. Were you going to say no? No, but okay. Just let me hear it. So when I'm researching for a guest or I need to know a lot about a subject matter, I say, make me a podcast about. And when you do that, you're going to get a short blurb about that subject. And then in like two minutes, you're going to get a podcast. So check this out. Welcome to Co-Pilot Podcasts. Picture this, a guy working the front desk at a hotel, making lacrosse videos in his spare time, completely unaware that he's about to become one of the most influential voices in the creator economy.

0:38Today, we're diving into the remarkable story of Colin Rosenblum. Wow. Did you pay it to say that? That's crazy. That's very kind. It's crazy, but it's my favorite way to learn about a subject matter. I'm learning about so much more now that I can turn this research into like a seven minute podcast that I can listen to just when I'm walking. Did you tell it that I worked at the front desk of a hotel? Dude, the prompt is just, make me a podcast about Colin from Colin and Samir. That's it. I may be biased, but I'm on the edge of my seat. I'm hooked. So if you guys haven't checked out Copilot, check it out.

1:10Try it for your research. Try it for getting variations of your titles, your ideas. It's one of my favorite tools on the internet right now for our creativity. And now back to the show. What's up with Ludwig spending$250 ,000 on fishing merch? That's the first thing we talk about on the show today. We also respond to some criticism about whether or not this show should be behind a paywall. We get into paywall strategies and how creators can think about charging for their content. And then we answer the question, are too many young people wanting to be creators right now? Is it a bad thing? Because they might get replaced by AI.

1:46That's another part of the question. That's the second part of the question, Colin. It's a two-parter. And then as you get to the deep end of the episode, someone asks how I'm doing. And we'll get into that. We will get into that. All right. Well, welcome to Creator Support, the show where we answer your questions about the business of being a creator. If you get to the deep end, let us know. All right. So Ludwig spent a lot of money on his new fishing merchandise. $250 ,000. To be exact. Yeah. And now this merch comes from his podcast, The Yard, which has been growing quite a bit the past couple of years and is a pretty impressive, just kind of like empire to me.

2:26Like Ludwig is empire building in a way that I think is kind of like subtle. Yeah. You know, it's very subtle. And I think a part of that is also because his content is understated. A lot of his content is him sitting in a room. and the yard has this like really cool kind of like comedy podcast feel. They launched this merchandise line, this like fishing merchandise line with a pretty funny high production video that didn't make a ton of sense, but I think that's part of it. Just kind of comedy. The one thing I really like about this, because at a glance it makes no sense. You're like, this is not a fishing podcast that you can even buy like tackle, which I don't even know what that is.

3:06because I've never fished in my life. Yeah. Last time I fished, I was nine years old near the train station. Okay. That was the last time. So you can buy a yard code tackle box for$95. You can buy a hat, like a bucket hat for$40. They have vests, like a utility vest for$60. A parka for$165 ,000,$165 ,000,$165. dollars. The whole thing is like such a fun little capsule of fishing stuff. The thing that I really like about this is when we had Ludwig on our show and we talked to him, he talked about the subathon and what he talked about with his subathon was that it was actually kind of boring. Like if you watch the subathon every day, he didn't really do anything, but the concept of the subathon was exciting.

3:58And I think this falls into some of that same, you know, opportunity when it comes to marketing. You know, we wrote about this in the published press. This is the first yard merch drop that I'm hearing about, that we're talking about, that we're writing about, because the story is interesting. And I think the lesson here is that the story of what you're doing is oftentimes more interesting than what you're actually doing. Does that make sense? Is what I say just makes sense? Yeah, let's clarify a few things here. So The Yard, of course, is not a fishing-centric podcast. It's a comedy podcast where these guys riff.

4:36They launch merch that is fishing-themed, but also just straight-up fishing gear. That's very unexpected. So that's what's making headlines. Throw in the fact that they spent what feels like an unreasonable amount of money to do it, that's what makes it unexpected and that's what creates a headline. So there's value in them creating a headline here. And then when he was talking about the subathon, yes, the subathon like going live for, you know, days and days on end is boring. But what he was also talking about is that his everyday streams are not what people are going to remember. It's the story of the subathon, right?

5:16Because it was this big event. What he was saying is, as a creator, your day-to-day videos, your day-to-day work, when someone looks back a year from now, they're not going to really remember the specific video. They will remember the overarching story of probably some of the bigger things you did. For us last year, the Mr. Beast documentary, that was like the story. Yeah. And I even remember the first time we released the, our interview with Mr. Beast. Months and months and months, sometimes years later, people were like, what's the next thing? And you're like, oh, wow, that's what you've retained from a year.

5:54I also think though, if you zoom out, even our interview show or this show, it's about how we make you all feel, right? The people who are listening or watching more than it is about minute 47 of an interview. It's about the overarching concept of what we're doing. And I think sometimes creators forget about that, that like try and think of what the story is of what you're doing. There's a great tactic that Jeff Bezos instilled in Amazon, which was in order to pitch something, you had to write the press release for it. So like if you wanted to launch a new feature, you had to write the press release for it.

6:32And I think with videos or as creators like launching new projects, I think that's a really good practice. How are people gonna talk about this? What's the headline? And if the headline's kind of like, doesn't really, you know, stick, then maybe workshop a little bit more. Why does this make sense that you're doing it? And also what you said, why is it kind of unexpected? How's it going to break through? Especially in a world where today there's so much happening. Like to get people to talk about something that you're doing is pretty hard. Yeah. There is so much happening in a given span of like three days.

7:04Like when we leave our office on Friday and come back Monday, the amount of stuff that has happened is astonishing. So to get people to talk about stuff, you have to be pretty unexpected. this might not make money. Who knows? They might not make their$250 back. But what is going to happen is more people are going to find out about the yard. More people are going to be interested in their next merch drop. And more people might find out about the Patreon. Because their Patreon is how you can, like right now, you can't buy this merch unless you're a patron. It's only available to the highest tier, the highest paying tier of their Patreon.

7:40Right. Now, their Patreon, I knew it made good money, but I went to go check. 29 ,911 patrons paying$201 ,000 a month. That's incredible. That's an unbelievable engine. And it's so fascinating that with some Patreon accounts or Patreon-funded shows, the number is public. Yeah. Right? How unique is that, that I know how many patrons they have and how much money they bring in every month? It does put in, of course, there's like a few guys on the show. The production's pretty high. They're incorporating like filmed bits, like the commercial for the drop of merch that leads into the long form episode is like really high production.

8:33But it puts into context, okay, maybe they are a little bit comfortable taking a loss on$250 ,000 worth of fishing merch for the story, for the press. Maybe they will earn it back in press and people could, like you said, join the Patreon. Right. Or buy the next merch drop or just like the general value of a yard fan is very high. So to attract new fans or to create a deeper bond with your fans is worth it. It's almost like you can't even look at it as like buying inventory. You can look at it as like creating a story or attracting new fans or strengthening your bond. Like you can look at it in so many different ways.

9:10I think what I really appreciate about this merch drop is that, you know, the lowest common denominator for any creator is like put your name on a shirt. Yeah. And have it be print on demand and put it out. For them, they released like actual fishing gear and the website, the yard.sale. So good. Looks like a legit fishing company. Like they went to such an extent to make this look legit and real. I also am going to say it's like one of the nicest functioning websites I've experienced. They must have paid a lot of money for the site itself and like the branding and all that. It's very nice. But this bleeds really well into a discussion we were having last week where at the end of the episode last week, we asked the question of paywalled creator support.

9:54And someone asked us the question. We discussed it a bit and asked everyone's opinion. And there was a very engaged conversation in the subreddit. So this post comes from you slash things elsewhere. What is the point of a paywall on creator support? In the most recent episode of creator support, Colin and Samira again broached the subject of putting the show behind a paywall. But why? We're all perfectly aware that this show doesn't need to be audience funded to exist. Since they say in this same episode, it costs very little to make. Furthermore, the viewership is already remarkably tight-knit, with 90 % coming from subscribers.

10:32So there's no advantage to further shrinking this audience to only those who are willing or even able to pay for it. My opinion, a paywall on the Creator Sports Show would be an explicit choice by Colin and Samir to provide value to fewer people in order to squeeze more money out of their audience and demonstrate an unabashed prioritization in profit over their community. I might stop there. There's more to this, and there's a lot of conversation. but you know, the highest level is, uh, they're asking the question is like, what, how would this be a positive thing to do? And there's a lot of different components to break up here.

11:06Yeah. The first thing we should clear up is around like, does this need to be audience funding since they say in the very same episode, it costs very little to make. Yeah. I mean, it does not cost nothing to make. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Like we're in a set, there's lights here. Yeah. We have team members. we have, we, there's more people than me and Colin, right? Like we have team members who work on the show. Jesse's sitting here right now. Um, we have our producer, Marilyn, like we, there's a whole, uh, business that's running here. There's people upstairs editing, like everything that we do at Colin and Samir is part of the business Colin and Samir, right?

11:41Like the media business Colin and Samir. And, and all of that goes to pay our employees, pay our rent, pay for the gear that's in this room. So like, we are absolutely running a business and also, So, yeah, and I want to add to that that, like, it doesn't have to be monetized through audience funded. It doesn't have to be. No, it doesn't have to be. But it does need to contribute to the business in some way. Yeah. And if you look at, you know, last year, we published all of our videos to our main channel, which is obviously way larger than this one. It's advertising backed. We've published six videos this year.

12:16That is, by this time last year, we had probably published upwards of 20. 20, yeah. And ended the year around 50. We may end this year around 15 or 20, maybe. True. And we've published the majority of our content on this channel, which has 20 ,000 subscribers and is currently not, at this very moment, like funded by advertising. Right. Right. So like there's been a change in the dynamic of the business too. So like something does need to give from a business perspective. Like we do need to figure out some way. Yeah. And we figured it out. And we figured it out. Yeah, we figured it out, right? Like we, like we will be like talking about that very soon.

12:55But you know, the, the reality that, that was very interesting. The second part of this is that if we are to release any level of paywalled content, we would not stop doing the, this. Yeah. Like we're not going to stop this. This is, this will always be available. That's actually the most important. That's the most important part. It's like same, same with like the yard or flagrant or TMG. like there would be bonus content. So like, and you would have the choice to, you know, deem that valuable to yourself or not as an audience member, we would never, we would never do something where you don't have the choice.

13:30Like I believe in everything that we're doing, we want to be free and available to creators to listen to and watch. And that's why all of our content is advertising backed and put out. That is still the same philosophy. The question is like, you know, what does it feel like to engage with the audience on a direct basis? I think that sounds interesting to have the community have say over it. And I think that's probably a lot of what we're going to see as we launched the discord and see like, what does it feel like to have more of the community's voice? And then are there spaces where there can be, you know, more engagement where there's like a, you know, there is a paywall and there's maybe additional stuff and there's more of a say or more of a voice.

14:09Like that's all stuff that we will solve as the show goes forward. for the time being, this show is going to be available, you know, and like it's, it, it will always be available like this, uh, in some way, shape or form. That's what we believe in. So I thought this was a really interesting discussion. I appreciated, uh, hearing and reading everyone's perspective. Um, but yeah, if we were to do a paywall, uh, we, it would be extra content and you'd have absolutely a choice just like, you know, and the value in that is not just the extra episode. Yeah. The value is also, uh, being a part of how the show gets made.

14:51Yes. Right. Like you become someone who is much closer, uh, to the process. You are actually helping it get made. That's just a different feeling that has value in itself for certain audience members who, uh, have the money and want to pay. Like that is Patreon. Exactly. That straight up or like that is community funded content. Yes. Yeah. I think community funded content is super cool. Like I, I'm a member of a few creators, you know, either paid communities or, uh, patrons. And like, it's really fun. It feels, it feels like special. Yeah. Like when we did the pay what's fair. Yeah. With the S documentary with yes theory, there were people who of course paid the minimum and eventually that movie came out for free.

15:38Yep. But there were people who paid the minimum. And how can I pay the maximum? The maximum. We actually couldn't even accept the amount that some people wanted to pay. Because for them, that channel has such an impact on them and they had the income, disposable income, and they wanted to support at that level, even though it was like barely an option. Yeah, so I thought it was a good discussion. I enjoyed reading through it. But again, like our philosophy is we will always want this show to be available to all of you. Like that's number one. And then if there's anything additional, that will be, you know, separated.

16:10All right. This comes from Twitter, flowwithmilow, the official account. Do you think too many people are growing up today wanting to become influencers? Do you think that even carving out a career in the creator space will eventually disappear due to the emergence of AI? It's an interesting two-part question. I think we should start with part one. Are too many kids growing up wanting to be influencers? And this is a, I'm sure this comes from that data point that gets shared all the time where it's like kids don't want to be astronauts anymore. 80 something percent say they want to be creators.

16:47And I would hope, like if I had kids and they wanted to be creators, like that's their sole thing that they wanted to be. I would want them to figure out what they care about first outside of just the world of being a creator. Right? Like, is there something that you are deeply ingrained in a community that you deeply care about a skill set that you have that you want to share via YouTube or social media? Yeah. As opposed to being enthralled by the metrics, the viewership, the perception of the lifestyle. I 100 % agree. I think like YouTube is a way to share something that you do. Yeah. But we have in recent times created this craft of being a YouTube creator, which is like the craft of knowing exactly how to upload content that will have mass appeal enough and wide enough of range that people watch it.

17:45I think one thing that's really interesting that I have explored recently is the completion rates between a podcast native platform like Spotify or Apple pods and YouTube. Like a really good completion rate on podcast on YouTube is around 30%. Like for a long podcast. And on audio, you typically see like 80 plus percent. And I think it's so interesting that it's the same content, but the behavior is so different. and the craft of getting someone to watch 100 % of a YouTube video is a very different craft than the craft of having a good conversation with someone or being a good interviewer. And that, those two things I think sometimes are at odds or really challenging for me.

18:27Like I enjoy the craft of having a long-form conversation with someone and being curious enough to bring out parts of them that they haven't brought out before. That craft and the craft of getting someone to watch 90 % of a YouTube video there's a Venn diagram where those overlap. And then there's also times where those aren't together. How does that connect to too many kids wanting to be creators? Because what I'm saying is like the, the, uh, excitement to being an influencer is a very specific craft. And I think that that's a moving target and that you're chasing something that's constantly changing.

19:07But if you focus on the craft of like saying, I would like to be a very good interviewer, the medium will change, but you will become a very good interviewer or like, I want to become a very good violinist, you know, and then I'll use YouTube to, to bring that forward. But if the YouTube algorithm changes, I'm not going to change the way I play the violin. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like the craft of making the video is so interesting that that is now the, um, the aspiration is to get really good at finding ways to get people to complete a video. Do you know what I mean? Like, again, like the best filmmakers would probably not be the best YouTube creators.

19:47They just wouldn't be because the medium is different. But I still think there's a lot of value to becoming a great filmmaker. Yeah, I think a lot of the aspiration from young people comes from, I think, watching creators and wanting to have the same confidence in identity. yeah you know like a lot of a lot of creators have spent time we were you know our episode with doug de murro came out this week he spent years and years in the car industry working for porsche working at car dealerships right taking photos of cars just to send to his friends like he by the time he started out on youtube he had a pretty clear understanding of his identity.

20:33And then he played the YouTube game and then it became a career. So I think that's what's infectious is like the end product of Doug DeMuro, right? As you watch him and you're like, wow, he launched cars and bids. He raised$37 million. He gets millions of views on his YouTube channel, but that's not what I think is necessarily or should be aspirational. It's like him taking years to find his identity and be happy with who he is that then allowed him to be successful. Doug's the best. Great guy. Like spending a few hours with delightful, unbelievable. Yeah. You know, it was so fun. I guess like back to what I was saying and similar to what you're saying is just that I think it's been really interesting to my entire adult career life has been trying to find the thing I'm passionate about and see how it works on YouTube.

21:23Yeah. And I'm curious and I would encourage people to just find the thing they're passionate about and you know, find a way that that they can showcase that on YouTube, but I don't know how to articulate it better. It's just like, it's so interesting that when I'm in an experience that I'm enjoying, sometimes I have so much anxiety over how this experience is going to show up on YouTube and perform on YouTube versus like being in that experience and being a craftsman of, you know, being a great interviewer. I think I felt that the most when we talked to Tim Ferriss. So we recorded a very long episode with Tim Ferriss and it was such a special conversation because I've looked up to Tim Ferriss for a very long time.

22:00I think he's an incredible craftsman. And when it came to the conversation, he brought forward like almost like a pro athlete, like this kind of like this methodology of being an excellent interview host and a great entrepreneur who runs an interview show. And I love that. but also a lot of Tim Ferriss's interviews don't do great on YouTube, but he's a great interviewer. You know what I mean? Like I, those two things are valued separately. I don't know how else to articulate that, but yeah. The second part of this question is important. Do you think that even carving out a career in the creator space will eventually disappear due to the emergence of AI?

22:39No. I think if you're willing to be like flexible and adapt what your skillset is and where you fit in. I do think putting myself in the shoes of maybe someone in college who just wants to be an editor that I'm not sure where opportunities are going. I think opportunities to be a storyteller are really high, you know, but to be specifically an editor, to do certain types of tasks, like assistant editor roles, things like that. Like if that's your aspiration, if that's what I wanted to do when I was 18, I'd be a little bit like, what's kind of happening here? Yeah, I think the trajectory is about to change dramatically because my first job out of college was an assistant editor who synced audio and video on a Hollywood movie.

23:24Yeah. There's no possible way that's a role anymore. Yeah. Right? I don't think so. I don't think so because that's too easy to be done with a machine. Also, like 21-year-old me was not to be trusted. I was like almost falling asleep sometimes. The editing room was so dark and so comfortable and you'd go in and like, I didn't drink coffee at the time. So I would just kind of like sit there and it was so dark and I'd be like starting to fall asleep. And then like, I wouldn't trust me in that setting. I would trust a machine. And you know, like give me the AI who can sync audio and video. So yeah, I think that trajectory, I don't know what happens.

24:00Like, do you just jump to now? Like you have to be such an excellent editor that I want to work with you as a storyteller, like the assistant editor role or the junior, you know, editing role might not exist because I just need the person who can take what the machine has done and now help me craft that into a story. Yeah. And then you don't get as much like sitting in the room where it happens, not to, you know, Hamilton, but like when I sat in the room, when they were editing the film, I learned a ton, but I was only in that room because I was an assistant editor. Yeah. Is that person not able to be in that room anymore?

24:38Because that person might not have a job anymore. Yeah. So I think that's, what's going to be interesting is like what roles emerge and what, what gets valued that's still very human. Right. And I think it is like storytelling. It is like your ability to make people feel something, be self-aware. For sure. Your ability to connect because I'm coming across a lot of YouTube shorts right now that are hosted by AI. Yeah. And what I know is that they're written by ChatGPT as well. The opportunity right now to use AI, to drive, to make money on YouTube and to make content that's informational or educational.

25:15I sent you one recently that was hosted by an AI voice that I know well from 11 Labs. And I was listening to it and I was like, halfway through, I was like, I didn't even care that it was AI. I just wanted the information. So I do think that there's a lot that's now, you know, oh, wow. someone, like there's going to be a lot of that where it's just AI hosting something to me and it's information. But there was a human who thought strategically that that would be the right thing to do. Right. So there's some level of like strategy that really matters, storytelling that really matters, empathy with audiences that matter, and then ability to connect.

25:51We're still going to have people we want to connect with, like faces and voices that were like, I like the way that person presents information to me. I think, I don't know. But I would get to like the more strategic, critical thinking level rather than the like, what, if it feels like a tedious task, it's going to be replaced. There's a threat to that, I think. Yeah. I think so. Yeah. Because we are very good at, as human beings, of being like, where is something that is tedious, monotonous, boring, and how do I get rid of it? We've even done that with time, right? Like when you're, you think about when we were standing in line for a bathroom, we didn't even know how boring that was until we got Instagram.