Change Doesn't Happen When You Play It Safe | A Leaders' Panel Discussion

0:00Georgie Rechner:We not only have one or two, but three amazing, courageous leaders joining us today. I am so excited for this episode because these three women are coming on to share their stories of how they had the courage to change. And I know because I know these three women, it was not easy for them. And this is actually a big moment for them to actually come on and publicly share how they have got to where they are today. We have the incredible Amber Shan, who has gone from being a software engineer to being a founder of She Bites Back, helping women in tech go from invisible experts to confident speakers.

0:35Georgie Rechner:Also, co-founder of 537, Catherine Peacock, with over 15 years in ad agencies, has now taken the leap to start her own agency. And lastly, Georgie Rechner, who left the corporate world to become a bodybuilder and founder of The Midlife Rebel, helping midlife women build strength, confidence and agency. All these women have inspired me and I hope you're going to take so much inspiration from this episode yourself. So let's get started. I can't tell you how excited I am to have the three of you around the table at the same time. You're all very, very special to me and I've all had an impact in my life and choices that I've done and things I've learned from all of you.

1:14Georgie Rechner:But this episode is about the courage to change and what I want to start with, I'm going to start with yourself, Amber, is what does it take from you to have that courage to change?

1:24Amber Shand:I'll be honest I'm obsessed with change like I've always been that person that like always wants to reinvent myself and whatnot but to go from like being a technologist to now being like a community builder and like speaker that was really hard because I had to unlearn a lot of things and I wasn't kind of prepared for that so even things like I thought my self-worth was based on me having this job title as a software engineer so I'd always say like anywhere I went I loved when people used to ask what what I did because I'm like okay I'm a software engineer and I just felt like I don't know I just I love the procedure but all yeah and so I actually felt a lot of shame weirdly enough as someone that's obsessed with change like you know that I was like working in software full-time building up to Queen Tea doing loads of speaking gigs but then it came to a point where I had to realize I had so much shame that I enjoyed the other things more than coding all day and I didn't realize just how challenging it would be to make that transition so I was really grateful to get mentored by joe because we covered kind of those things in terms of like how to build up the business whilst working full-time but also i was unlearning this idea that i'm only worthy if i'm a software engineer and that all this community and speaking stuff didn't amount to much especially because like in my family that's just not like a career that's that i've seen

2:40Georgie Rechner:growing up so it sounds like for you the shift was needing to be that courage to shift your identity yeah but also to ask for help in doing that yeah yeah and to unlearn and to unlearn a lot for sure brilliant thank you kathleen i'm going to come to you next what did it take from you it's taking it's still still taking it's still taking we're right in the throes aren't we yeah we are i was just saying that um gosh i only launched my business a few months ago and I think for me I did sort of say to my co-founder Christopher at one point it's like going from and I'm looking back and I'm kind of realizing I felt so comfortable in hindsight in what was still a hugely challenging thrilling job but I was sort of in the passenger seat next to the founders if that makes sense and now it's me in the driving seat and before we launched I was like that whole analogy of kind of like check the mirrors no just I've got to recheck again and again.

3:38Georgie Rechner:I'm not sure if we're ready to drive off. And like, oh, yeah, you know, it just felt so terrifying to launch even and to put ourselves out there. But then, of course, once we've done that, I kind of was like, oh, no, this is just getting started. And actually, we've got so many challenges every single day. I'm needing to draw on courage, you know, whether it's, I don't know, doing something I've not done before and having the self-belief or kind of backing myself to make. the right decisions in the moment with the information we've got or you know yeah it's it's it's constant at the minute do you remember that moment where you're just like yes i am gonna do it yeah not really knowing what it would look like yet but you just had that courage to go i'm gonna yeah we named our company after it it's called 537 for a reason because we talk about ideas that can change everything and those moments and they are some of the most hopeful and powerful moments of our lives so that's why we called our company after that because we want to chase that same feeling with everyone we work with and for us it was quite literally I mean I'd left a big job I'd left a few big jobs actually and I felt kind of like what's going to challenge me next very similar to you I believe in change and growth and everything that's attached to doing that what's going to excite me next and actually in transparency I was interviewing around a lot I'd had a lot of conversation over past months years with with Christopher Keating my co-founder about you know one day we'll start a business I didn't imagine it to be that soon and I was in the middle of this interview process and Christopher said to me I really think we should do this and I said well you know what will happen if you come back to me with something so exciting and amazing a creative idea that I can't turn my back on I know what I'm like you know we'll be doing it and true to form he woke himself up at 5 37 unsociably early with this vision for the company that we wish existed showed me a few hours later and I went oh god all right then literally that got my heart and I think you have to follow what excites you so it was that feeling yeah that help

5:48Catherine Peacock:you take that leap yeah really nice thank you over to you so so i think like so i was in advertising for 15 years and much like you said like my identity was really like advertising but like most people in advertising had a bit of a love-hate relationship with it and throughout that time there had been loads of moments where i was like oh could this be something that i could do that was different i remember at one point i like was looking at like makeup artists and and then i was I wanted to go into like in-house production. Like there was always these little moments. But I think the thing that finally pushed me was getting really, really bloody good at my job, like really good at my job.

6:29Catherine Peacock:And then having a moment where I realized I wasn't seen. I was like, I am never going to be valued by this company. And I probably am not going to be valued elsewhere. I just got to that point. and it was the thing that I needed the the gentle nudge or the the violent shunt to just be like

6:53Georgie Rechner:you've got to get out and you've got to do your own thing yeah do you think because I'm thinking my own story as well because obviously I was in there's an ad theme here sorry you're not in the ad theme there um I was in the advertising industry and it did take quite a traumatic moment for me to go I've to actually find my courage to change because it was a bit of like do I go here or do I hear it was a bit of a crossroads moment do you think it takes that to make change happen or can you do it without having that moment that catalyst

7:23Amber Shand:it depends what the risk is do you know what I mean like yeah and I think it depends how much I think that sometimes you have to suffer so much that all you can do is is look for change and I think that sometimes if it's a case of oh I want this but I don't want it enough you don't want to risk what you already have to pursue that thing yeah depends i think it just definitely depends what do you think because you had that catalyst moment yeah and i could not

7:49Catherine Peacock:like agree more because as i said it was this like love hate thing with advertising i was you know i enjoyed aspects of it and it was never quite bad enough to leave and weirdly like the catalyst this moment was at the peak of my career. I was more successful on paper than ever before. But having this moment where I realized that success was never going to be honored, was never going to be valued. I was just like, I have got to get out and I've got to build my own thing. And in that moment, I was like, I can't even go and work for someone else. I was like, it had to be my own thing. Because I suddenly was like, I'm good at this.

8:32Catherine Peacock:I'm really good and I want to put that I want to pour something in it I want to pour into something

8:38Georgie Rechner:that's my own yeah no I get that and then with your story Catherine because you know you stayed in like Amber and George you've gone into things that are actually quite different yeah where you've sort of stayed in the same sort of industry but not doing on your own how is your view of the world different now I think I've been shaping my opinions about advertising and creative ideas throughout my whole career and I've had the privilege of working at amazing companies I mean most notably I spent seven years working at Uncommon for the founders right and that was without doubt the most thrilling creative exciting time in my career to this point right and I think when you've had such amazing experience and you believe so strongly in your expertise and what you can bring and you know there's so much disruption in our industry at this point so I find that fascinating in fact I'm like I want to lean into that more because I sort of think well actually you know in all of this disruption like famously said you know therein lies the opportunity and I've always sort of challenged myself to grow do difficult things yeah you know um and this is the natural next step for me I think I hope and I love that honesty because it is what you don't know and i actually just interviewed um and law who wrote tiny experiments but before and really talking about that relationship we have with uncertainty and how actually certainty can limit our possibilities so much but when we're actually comfortable to go into the unknown so much it is the unknown can actually expand so many possibilities which i think makes it more exciting territory to go we talk quite a bit about blank sheet of paper and famously ernest Hemingway saying that actually you know it's like the white bull so it's as fearful as it is exciting right and I think we kind of got to constantly balance and carry both those two emotions yeah but I slightly feel too that you're not so alive and you're not pushing yourself and you're not growing enough if you don't have that kind of balance of what I would sometimes call the healthy degree of fear nice that's a nice segue now into fear because there you go I gave it to you the opposite of what I say the opposite of courage is having faith in yourself but the only opposite of faith is fear yeah and you're going to go for you what was the most fearful thing you

11:02Amber Shand:found about making this change okay let's okay one I was like oh my gosh I love a steady paycheck because that was like the biggest fear. Oh yeah, that was good actually.

11:10Georgie Rechner:I do remember that. Yeah, yeah.

11:13Amber Shand:I love the consistent income. Like no matter what the weather was, like I knew Amber was getting paid. So that was one thing. But the other thing was a serious fear of judgment. And so I was really, because remember I attached my self-worth to my job and I also attached my self-worth to having my job and doing like run this community and event series and doing these talks at the same time. And I loved, especially because like, I wasn't the best in school. I know like my family would say I was the smart one but the reality was like I had severe anxiety in school I didn't I like didn't my attendance rate wasn't great I really struggled in school and so the fact that now I had come to a place where Amber's so productive how is she doing those things I loved it when people used to call me a machine that just used to get me off you know like Amber's a machine how does she do it all I love that and so I realized that just how much perfectionism was actually holding me back so it's that feel of judgment wanted to control what other people thought that oh if i left my sexy job as a software engineer am i now just a loser basically what is amber doing and when i go to places and they say what do you do i'm just like oh i get the ick with myself now because i used to love saying i'm a software engineer and then i see just one of my biggest fears was people you know when you're an entrepreneur people just say oh what does that mean how do you do this and how do you do that and i kind of loved that before i say i'm a software engineer and everyone shut up you know and so it's and it's actually happened in real time and i realized that like i remember i was at my sister's barbecue and someone said oh so how do you make your revenue then and i was like what an invasive question or someone was like how much runway do you have then oh shouldn't you be applying for a job now wow no joke no joke but it's it's interesting because all my worst fears have actually happened in terms of judgment but then i look around i'm like oh wait i'm alive you know it didn't kill you i'm alive yeah and um and you know the catastrophizing things oh my gosh like if someone says that i'm going to die on the spot but the reality was i was actually fine and it's built up my confidence i realized that because i was asking for resilience of course the universe is going to bring in opportunities for you to build that resilience so i was actually almost grateful to have these experiences because i realized that love that i was putting way too much weight on what other people were saying and so that's been probably the biggest fear that i've actually i'm still dealing with of course because it is invasive and it's awkward especially when people say oh how's business and you thought you just feel that pressure like oh it has to be thriving or else people are gonna be like oh she left her job and now she's gonna have to apply for a new one or when people project their limiting release onto you and some of those things am i actually crazy for having like delusional self-belief but that's what delusional is for

13:53Georgie Rechner:if it would exist for a reason yeah exactly i just find that so interesting and i think i had the same thing of what will others say and i remember it took me two years to post on linkedin because i just so even just calling myself a leadership coach i'm like get judged

14:09Georgie Rechner:yeah just that that worries of what people say and what they say thinking and unfortunately there's a lot of the and i think we've all got our shadow selves where we when someone is doing something and they've taken there is that moment where you oh it sounds really bad to say but people get off on people when it doesn't go well for someone and it's tough it does because it kind of can make you feel better about yourself because then all right that's why I didn't do it then because look it doesn't work out and it is hard to navigate that and I know you were sharing before in terms of that you had like a year at home yeah even can you just expand on that because that must have come with a lot of fears and what you're going to do that was that was my initial

14:47Catherine Peacock:first fear so I knew I was I was burnt out I had really pushed myself in my final year of advertising and hadn't realized at the time I was also perimenopausal so I'd reached burnout so I I did I like we moved to South Africa we went my husband's South African and we purposely took some time out I had a three-year-old so I was just going to spend some time with him And so my biggest fear, the loss of identity was hard. You know, I had always been Georgie in advertising and I had attached so much of my self-worth to that. So losing that identity was scary. And so the scary thing initially became what's next.

15:30Catherine Peacock:You know, I left because of this big catalyst. I had no idea what I wanted to do. not a scoobies and so the initial thing was like am I gonna find the thing and actually I tried a couple of things and they didn't work and and they didn't work because I wasn't passionate about them I didn't care and so when I then found the thing that I care about which I have found and I and I believe in it so hard um the biggest fear now is that I won't be able to make it succeed you know know and I think both of those things are linked to my ADHD as well so like the um you know the initial thing of like um like looking for the new thing but then knowing that it had to be something that I was passionate about because I'm then gonna hyper focus on it yeah um but then my fear is can I be an entrepreneur can I be a businesswoman like with my ADHD I mean I got a 500 pound tax fine last year because I didn't file my taxes all the time I mean I did marry a CFO so I feel like he should have had my back on that one oh there's always someone to blame

16:49Catherine Peacock:but yeah so I think now it's just like can I convert this success into a proper you know into a proper business you know like I'm still kind of like early days I'm six months into my my coaching career I've had a lot of great success build building a platform very quickly but can I actually now convert this into a proper business and can it be sustainable exactly can it

17:15Georgie Rechner:be sustainable just a quick reminder if you haven't already to please hit the like button and subscribe to the channel it's a small action that makes a big difference you'll be the first to know when new episodes drop and your support helps us create meaningful content for leaders like you. I'd also love to hear from you. So if you have any thoughts, questions or ideas, pop them into the comments. And if you're curious about how my leadership coaching or training could support you or your team, just drop me a DM and we'll set up a call. Thanks so much. Now let's get back to the episode. What I love from what you shared there is going to come to yours.

17:51Georgie Rechner:Your story is you did two jobs at the same time. And then I remember us talking going, I think it's time to let that one go now you have to cut the boat cut the cord let's go you cut the cord we

18:02Catherine Peacock:had nothing and it was a it was a huge financial hit yeah it was a huge financial hit it came at a really good time that um our child care cost stopped so i then i took on the child care and then elio was uh going to be starting school shortly after so and anyone who has paid for like London Nurseries knows it's literally a mortgage so that did help a little bit but it was a huge financial hit and we were so worried and we were like we're never going to be able to afford this and I quickly realized that I was so much happier that it didn't matter it didn't matter that we I couldn't afford to get my nails done and my hair done and I couldn't afford to buy clothes because as a family unit we were so so much better off so like it was a it was it was tough and you know we had to make some some difficult choices about you know like we stopped eating out we stopped going on holiday we stopped going away as much but we were just so much happier that is

19:03Georgie Rechner:I think I know I'm feeling a lot listening to that and I think anyone listening just go actually when you look around you don't need as much stuff if you've got in your life and actually what is the price of happiness like the cost if you you can have all this stuff but are you happy we can let some of this stuff go and be the most joyful person as you're listening to this what's resonating with your story so much yeah I mean firstly I'd say both of those stories on I'm so thrilled to be sat here with you both because hearing about that I'm so much resonates I think yeah there's the identity stuff is really interesting isn't it you know we play so much worth on our job title I'd be totally lying if I said right now that I don't frequently go home and say oh my god I wish I could have my big job title back and say look at all these amazing things that I've done that are uncommon and that you know look at all this stuff we did and and it's weird because I've kind of stripped it all back and you know the fear is is you know there are moments where I'm sort of thinking I don't know if we can do this I have to tell everyone we can and I definitely believe in us I believe in Christopher's talent as well and we've got a phenomenal partnership we've got amazing people around us and you know if I was to get out a sheet of paper and more rationally like write down the reasons to believe I have many but you know that confidence crisis is just looming all the time right and you just you just don't know what's around the corner and being able to cling to all of the trappings of oh I've got you know I'm chief this and that and it yeah it's it's it's a it's a real thing but I think in terms of waking up every morning and feeling really excited and feeling really proud of yourself I mean that that is the best thing you can do really I mean what more can you ask of yourself so as long as we continue to do that and continue to feel that way I kind of go okay but I do put in check in moments we talk a lot very openly as a partnership and you know we will say okay like for example I've got a meeting that's in the diary in a few weeks time with Christopher where we're going to just sit back and go all those big looming huge questions that we want to answer about structurally commercially like is this are we good yeah you know we are going to talk about them but I can't run the business if I've constantly got that going around in my mind like we might fail we might fail I need to just kind of go we do need to really properly look at this yeah but let's sort of you know have a time for that and not not allow that to kind of take over something you've put structure in already to make sure those conversations aren't ignored because I think it's such a risk you can just get so busy yeah you forget to actually talk about the stuff that actually could cause some breakdown in trust or breakdown in communication which is so important i know for me um that thing of investing in myself like i had i remember i was at my lowest confidence when i made this decision i went to this coaching training and i had a little bit of savings and i was like do i put it in an isa or what do i do and i remember this wonderful moment of going do you know what i can um manage the return on that ice on me not on the isa so i just said to kev who's and i think it always helps when you've got that support you're someone I'm championing you and backing you that you can do this.

22:26Georgie Rechner:Going, I'm going to put the money in me and invest in me. And I think it's actually quite liberating. And I'm just curious to know how you will feel in terms of when you go, do you know what? If it doesn't work out, it's fine because at least I know I gave it my best shot. I gave it a go versus never knowing if you could. Like, have you ever had those conversations of like, I've just got to give this a go?

22:48Amber Shand:Yeah, of course. and it actually came from i was obsessed with this concept of like dying i'm not gonna lie so basically there's a book called don't sweat the small stuff yeah and i read it when i was quite young and a bit too i feel i was a bit too young to really appreciate what it really meant and one thing was about visualizing your funeral and i yeah and so i remember so since maybe the age of like 16 i have just been obsessed with like okay on my deathbed what's really going to matter here and and it's given me a lot of perspective so even when you come across like one of the top five regrets was the dying.

23:21Amber Shand:One of them is I wish I had the courage to live a life true to myself, not the life that others had expected of me. Yeah. And so when I heard that quote, I just, and I'm thinking about my funeral, it helps me to put into perspective, oh, okay, so I'm really scared of Stephen from accounting saying my LinkedIn posts are cringe. But like on my deathbed, I'm going to say, who's Stephen? You know? And if I'm dead, do you know what I mean? Yeah. And so it just gave me that perspective of, oh, okay, like on my deathbed, I'd rather say, but you gave it your good go you know, you gave a good go you made an impact, you were true to yourself versus just living a life that was just very safe, something that wasn't for me and yeah, I feel like, excuse me I know it's a bit grim to think about your death a lot but it's really powerful

24:06Georgie Rechner:and we are all going to die, and it is perspective and that quote is so powerful they said, isn't it, that is the saying that's the most powerful saying they say now on people on their deathbed is I wish I'd been true to myself yeah yeah how's this i think something's going on and something has hit you well i so i think i said

24:24Catherine Peacock:i tried something else and i fell on my face it totally failed and so i don't see things as failure i see them as like i learned so much from that and i think someone did say to me oh you know that thing that you tried like that was a waste of time and money and i said no it wasn't that was actually when I did that it was the the it was the thing that taught me to show up in front of camera so as part of that I was having to film myself a lot so I was you know like and the first videos I was so awkward I was just like oh my god this is so embarrassing and but I filmed myself over and over and over again like by the end of this thing I'd filmed like two three hundred videos and suddenly I was like I'm pretty confident on camera so then when When I started my Instagram account, I could immediately show up on camera with confidence.

25:17Catherine Peacock:And within three or four weeks, I had a film that went viral, now had like a million views. And it was because I'd done the other thing that failed and I'd learned from that. So I think that has shown me and that helps me be fearless, right? Because I'm like, if I fall flat on my face, it doesn't mean I failed. It means I learned something from it. So I don't see it as failure anymore.

25:42Georgie Rechner:And as you've made me think, you've got to be willing to put the work in. There's one thing to have the courage to change, but you can't just go, oh, we've done it now. It's all going to work out. You know, those 200 videos, like the videos I had to do and put Facebook lives up and stuff. And you say there was if I go back and look at them now, they're hilarious to watch to what I can do now. But you've got to be there's one thing in the courage to change, have the courage to be curious, but have the courage to act and do the work. yeah how are you learning now how you're showing up differently now as an owner to an employee how's what have you had to change oh gosh um well it's interesting because I think that action is key to courage I think the worst there have been moments where I've found this really really hard and one of them was the break between Christmas and New Year and normally I think that time is the most gorgeous time ever and it's the only time in the whole calendar that everyone's not you know bothering you on email whatever and it's peaceful and beautiful and for me it was hell this Christmas and I think a big part of that was because it felt so liminal you know I was telling myself this story which is kind of like goes something like oh my god you've just done the biggest thing you've ever done uh professionally at least you know you've got to make this amazing you've got so much to do your to-do list is infinitely long and how the hell are you going to make it happen and you've got to rest because you've got to rest because you've got a massive year ahead rest and then I was thinking but I can't because I've got all this stuff and then also you know I'm not going to be that person the only person that's really doing LinkedIn when no one else's or the only person that is sending out emails and new business hustle at the worst time of the year to do it so I couldn't act and I couldn't move things forward substantially and therefore the voice was loud you know I think I think anxiety and fear is really linked to kind of taking steps to just move it that bit further on and so as soon as we were back it was like oh no all these things that were kind of really eating away at me are absolutely fine I figured them all out and we've got going and we're really excited again but you know so you've just got to be that one foot in front of the other I think and be careful not to sit in your head too much yeah it's quite dangerous because I know for you like we were talking before we came in you were like yeah nobody told me how hard this was gonna be how many hours I would be working if you want

28:11Amber Shand:to let us know what's going on honestly I was on TikTok you know they have their slow mornings have a bit of matcha, do some Pilates. Who even are you? Yeah. I was like, for a work day, I said, delicious. Like I can do a bit of this. And Jo did warn me. She was like, you're gonna be working on our days. Like, Jo, you have a whole operation. Like, I'm just a one woman in a band. So I was humbled because when you're working full time and doing this part time thing, I was like, oh, okay, great. Like I'm making great money doing this part time. I'm just gonna continue to do my part time hours. And I'm part time working, part time fun, you know?

28:44Amber Shand:So I was wrong. When doing it full time, I didn't realize just how much energy I need to pour into it and how resentful I would feel doing it. Because because I was working 12 hour, like 15 hour days this afternoon, I really wanted a break from that. And I was kind of like, OK, when I have my business, things are going to be easier. But it's harder and easier in just different ways now. And I didn't realize just how much my mindset was holding me back from that. But also like going on social media, seeing what entrepreneurial life is, it's just not reflective of the reality at all. and people have their cute posts like oh yeah you know i failed yesterday um but it doesn't go into like when you're having a losing season and like that pressure of when you take a bet on yourself and people ask how how's it going that pressure to say oh no it's going well like it's all good don't worry about me you know i don't need anything and so that was actually really challenging and again i didn't realize how much shame would come with that because i just wanted to be, I left my job and now I'm super successful and things are going off for me, which of course like there were massive wins, but also I didn't realize it was so important to see how I showed up in my losing season.

29:52Amber Shand:It's so easy to show up when you're winning, when everyone's saying you're amazing. But when you're saying about the Christmas period, December kicked my ASS because genuinely I did not anticipate just how quiet it would be, how much anxiety I'd have. And I'd prepared for August, which is when I actually left my job. My last day was on August the 14th. So I knew August was quiet and September, yes. October, yes. November, yes. And then December, the cats were asleep. I was like, everybody wake up. Hello, is anyone gonna give me some money? There's opportunities. So yeah, that was definitely so, so challenging.

30:30Amber Shand:So I don't work four hour days, unfortunately. And I always wanted to say to past Amber, just take a break while you can because you're definitely not going to be having the matches and the rapport and pilates life just yeah

30:44Georgie Rechner:it does I promise you you still work hard it does get a bit easier I think my first three years were insane I didn't really see any friends very rarely saw my husband I went all in but then I think once you do it does start you get rhythms you get structures you get people know you more you can have a few more matches in about three years you'll be fine

31:03Amber Shand:Yeah, and I've had to tap into my inner type A as well. So I've been documenting things. And like, because I'm very type B, if you do the dish chart, I'm very half D, half I. And I lean definitely into the I area. So like documenting things, having processes and systems was like really hard, but it's something that I had to embrace during this time as well. So it's been humbling. But I'm doing my inner Joe. I say, what would Joe do? Oh yeah. I'm like, I'm going to write a document.

31:31Georgie Rechner:I saw quite a reaction from you when Amber was sharing some of that it is the hardest part and like you know we were saying about the big job titles well I have a running joke with Christopher which is like oh my god I was shit at my job before I'm sorry I don't know if I'm you can swear it's fine but but you know I I do I sort of feel like even when I felt like I was at the top of my game and I did have big titles and we were doing amazing things obviously we weren't shit but you know the the amount of leveling up that you're constantly doing every single week things that you never thought you would have to kind of grapple with whether that's just emotionally or whether that is quite literally you know I've got to figure something out that I didn't fully understand before or was somebody else's role to do before you know every single week we're learning more we're doing more and then you kind of look back I look back at stuff that was even happening to us in November of last year and we're recording this now early February and I just think oh yeah if I had to do that again that'd be easy but at the time it felt like a small mountain to climb and so it's kind of about definitions isn't it it is the hardest part but you said something which called like you said something about resentment and I thought that was quite funny because I often find myself you know probably of a weekend feeling a little bit irritable kind of going I'm really annoyed and why have I done this who made me do this yeah the joke about the you know always someone to blame so I always blame Christopher when it's going wrong and obviously it's me when it's going right you know it's great but I I do I kind of have this thing of like oh why why am I in this situation I sort of cast around to kind of go did my mum make me do this I'm like oh no I can't find anyone guilty other than myself but it's because it's hard yeah and when you're doing hard things you want a bit of I think what you're speaking to with the matcha and the mornings it's like where's the light relief but yeah I think the joy and the rest is so important and we're constantly trying to you know and it's good for me being in a partnership because we can balance and catch each other and so I can say hey I think we probably need a night off and also just for the creative process we all know it it's all very well documented and it is just so true that if you can rest and you can step away actually very often that's when your most amazing ideas will arrive or suddenly you'll figure it out and so yes it's a constant balancing act isn't it and with yourself georgie what i'm curious to know is with the obviously going through perimenopausal got me hrt yesterday I've joined the gang you know and you talk a lot about that and you also talk about the ADHD how have you we used to work together and I'd see the hours you'd put in how are you managing not making sure you burn out I'm wondering it's completely unchecked right now what I'm interested in is that tension you've now got part of your thing is your fitness body building you're doing high rocks high rocks this weekend high rocks okay like your transformation as you said you went from party girl to bodybuilder it is like so inspiring i say i only go on instagram because you're on it to see what you're doing about me joe

34:57Georgie Rechner:i'm even trying to do my instagram better because of what george is doing but you're such a transformation yeah so you've done a lot on health nutrition you know you're helping me yeah how do you manage that tension of knowing that you actually can be at risk of burning out the work yeah also you've got so much knowledge now of health and nutrition yeah I mean