How to Succeed When You're Told “You Won’t Be a Leader” | With Leah Spears

0:00I don't think anyone can be something that they aren't. You can't maintain it in your career. I've been in marketing for 25 years. There's no way I could pretend to be anything else at this point now. People know me so well. I've often been in situations where people have said, because of how I am, you are not going to get any further. You're not going to be on the board. You're not going to be this. You're not going to be that. Somebody once said to me, because I'm blonde, I was never going to get anywhere. And they suggested that as part of my rebrand, that I should dye my hair dark. And for one fleeting moment, I went with it.

0:31And I should never have done that.

0:33Leah Spears:I don't know why people have forgotten how to be human. I know. Like, it's so weird. I'm like, you're actually a person. People have lives outside of this. You know, we love what we do. Of course we do. For you in your life, what's the most controversial thing you think you've done? Oh my God, that's a really hard question. Hello, and welcome back to the Courageous Leaders podcast, brought to you by The Change Creators, where we strengthen leadership teams, creating environments where people and profits can grow together. I'm your host, Joanna Howes, and on today's episode, I'm excited to welcome our guest, Leah Spears.

1:07Leah Spears:Leah is Head of Brand Strategy at Paddy Power, leading the brand's biggest and boldest campaigns since 2022. With a background in PR and senior marketing roles at Asda, she's known for fearless ideas that push boundaries and drive impact. So let's get started. Leah, welcome to the show. I am so happy to have you here. Thank you for giving us your time. Jo, thank you for having me because it is just such an incredible honour to be here. Oh, I couldn't believe it. I saw your panel at BBH. I was like, I'm grabbing you. I think I messaged you straight afterwards. I was like, please come on the podcast.

1:38Leah Spears:It's going to be amazing because I'd love to know you were so inspiring on the panel and I'd love to know what has been that courageous moment for you? I think probably one of the most courageous moments of my career was joining Paddy Power. I think to know and understand that I can add value to a business that has got such an incredible creative legacy is a lot of pressure on someone. Actually, you just don't know if you're ever going to live up to the work that has come before you. You're really standing on the shoulders of giants. And I think Paddy Power took a chance on me. I took a chance on Paddy and I think it's definitely worked out for the best.

2:16Leah Spears:that's pretty so I want to know because it's such a big brand what was it in you where you went I'm going to go for this I'm going to back myself I'm going to believe in myself and I'm going to go for this role um I've been watching Paddy Power for a lot of years obviously it's a very famous and also infamous brand I'm a very creative person at heart and I think that the risks that that brand was taking they were bold without being tone deaf it seems like a really really interesting place to me it seemed like it would suit me so you know you just get a vibe don't you about something that you want to do um and actually I'm quite a mischievous individual and mischief is that the is the DNA of that brand and so I thought well if I can't work there I don't know where I'm going to go so you found the match I just found my match my perfect match yeah exactly and I love that that mischievous side how do you feel that served you well in your career I think that uh people can often find that quite endearing so when there is someone who can bring a bit of joy a bit of fun to a situation um you quite often find that people congregate around that and I think that maybe over time that has become my leadership style so that warmth that energy it's something that I probably lean more and more into um because I find it it just works it just works for me and if you found for you in terms of you ever been in an environment where someone's tried to squash that light or found you your mischievous shadow that joyful because you walk into a room you light a room up your energy is everything you know you do you have like a magnetism around you you kind of want to like you speak oh I want to know more about you have you ever worked with anyone who's tried to limit that or squash oh 100 % all the time I think that um some people can often find that quite a challenge I think sometimes if people are insecure around you they don't like that they don't like that kind of gravitas that you might have because of that because they can't turn that on in the same way I've often been in situations where people have said because of how I am you are not going to get any further you're not going to be on the board you're not going to be this you're not going to be that because people don't want that from someone who's on an executive team.

4:38But I think that's a very, very outdated view now. I don't, I wouldn't get that where I am now. And I don't really hear many people talking about that now. But certainly when I was younger, when I was even more gregarious, when I was even, you know, more joyous and more energetic and more mischievous, I'd probably say, people definitely tried to dampen that spirit around me. And do you know what? I've never really taken much notice of that. There's definitely been an occasion or two where people have given me some advice and I've tried to squash it but the natural me just bursts out and I can't help that I don't think anyone can be something that they aren't like you can't maintain it in your career like I've been in marketing for 25 years there's no way I could pretend to be anything else at this point now people know me so well so it would be so inauthentic of me to even try and squash that line and squash it yeah exactly

5:32Leah Spears:I do remember you sharing a story with me that there was just that one time someone did influence you and you took action. You able to share that? They did. And do you know what? It was probably one of the most stupid moments of my life. Somebody once said to me, because I'm blonde, I was never going to get anywhere. And they suggested that as part of my rebrand that I should dye my hair dark. So I thought, well, that seems like a really quick fix to getting a promotion. Never mind all the work that I've put in or my intelligence or anything. what I'll do is I'll just dye my hair um so I went ahead dyed my hair came into work the next day oh my god I've never been so mortified or embarrassed everybody knew exactly why I'd done that and you know I was mocked mercilessly by everybody in the team because they were like why have you changed yourself like why are you trying to be something that you're not um anyway I kind of persevered with it for a bit I mean I had to then you know how hard it is to go back from brown to blonde then and it was actually my husband's granny who said to me like why have you changed your hair you've lost all your sparkle and it was that moment where I just thought yeah do you know what I totally have like why have I done this and it just it's such a small piece of advice that made such a mockery of my entire knowledge my existence my career all my hard work and for one fleeting moment I went with it and I should never have done that should never have done it it sounds like actually in that moment and the fact that you did do it has probably actually helped you so much now to know what it's like to try and change and go no that's icky that doesn't feel right yeah and actually learn that being yourself is what's gonna take you through yeah yeah you've got to have authenticity like I say you can't you can't try and pretend to be something else because it unwinds pretty fast you get found out by people there is just no point and do you know what what you are meant to be is what you are meant to be and there are certain things of course that you can hone so there's skill sets that you might hone adapt to just move you on move your knowledge on move your confidence on um move your team on you know there are certain ways that you can be for sure um as you grow up you grow wiser you know the more knowledge you've got in your bank but at the core of it who you are is what really matters and yeah definitely for anyone listening if anyone's in that situation like don't change don't change don't change so fussy because when I met you and I saw you and I saw this beautiful glamorous woman in front of me and I was like I guarantee you've been judged because of appearance yeah and it just made me go to some of my own stories because I'm quite small and blonde and my mum always wanted me to have a name that could be abbreviated to a boy's name yeah I don't know why she just quite liked the idea I was either gonna be Georgina and Georgina and Joanna and Jo and I remember I became quite senior and I used to go down and meet my guests and they would immediately because I'm small and blonde and I get embarrassed saying this but people tell me I look younger than my age I they think I was the PA like usually to meet them they're like so they're like I'll have a tea or coffee and I'm like I'm Jo and they're like and you can see the face was like oh my god yeah or when I walked into a room to then and I'd stand up to start the meeting again the shocked face of this isn't what we were expecting to be presenting to us yeah and initially it did shrink my confidence quite a bit and then I just started to have fun with it yeah you do you know I've just got to own this you do you do have to own it and you know what you can turn it to your advantage what I found my superpower was was letting people think exactly all those things um but actually then the element of surprise when I opened my mouth to host a meeting or to present or whatever it might be, whatever situation.

9:13That was definitely my superpower I found because people were so shocked. They were so shocked at what I had to say that even if it wasn't the best thing I ever said, it just hit them square in the eyes. They couldn't believe it. And one of my old directors used to say that about me. He used to always say, that is your superpower. He said, just keep them guessing for as long as possible

9:34Leah Spears:and then release yourself. And it works. Just a quick reminder, If you haven't already, to please hit the like button and subscribe to the channel. It's a small action that makes a big difference. You'll be the first to know when new episodes drop and your support helps us create meaningful content for leaders like you. I'd also love to hear from you. So if you have any thoughts, questions or ideas, pop them into the comments. And if you're curious about how my leadership coaching or training could support you or your team, just drop me a DM and we'll set up a call. Thanks so much. Now let's get back to the episode.

10:10Leah Spears:So what also could be really surprising, I remember you saying to me, is you are a complete geek. I am. And has that become a bit of a secret superpower? Yeah, I'm not ashamed to admit that, Jo, actually. I think knowledge is a superpower. And I don't mean knowledge is a power that you have that you don't share with anyone else. But going deep on subjects, learning everything about things, really swatting up on your stuff, I think gives you a confidence like nothing else if you know your stuff you can go anywhere because you've put the hard work in you've got around any situation even if you knew nothing about it before but I think the other thing that that does for you again is people endear towards that so for instance if I'm on set on a shoot or whatever it might be I will make an effort to find out what everyone's doing and why like ask questions of the DOP why are you using that lens you know why are you doing this because not only does it teach you something that you didn't know before but it also means that you're talking to someone who is a master of their craft and respecting that and I think that's a really really important thing to do and I think that definitely definitely helps you in any situation kind of overcome barriers and get the best out of it and get the best work out of everyone as well.

11:27Leah Spears:I think it is that power of connection I think unfortunately I see too many leaders they get to a certain position and it almost is like then other people are beneath them yeah and I wouldn't go and talk to the DOP or the other person it's like I yeah this is who's allowed to talk to me and there's a bit of this intimidating wall yeah exactly have you experienced that I definitely have seen that in action um in different situations I don't know like I don't think anyone would get away with doing that in front of me to be honest because you're leading the way in a situation like that once one person opens that floodgate of curiosity into what someone else is doing or starts a conversation with someone who's then got something brilliant to say you can't really stop that flow then can you you can't really stop that energy so again you know any situation that you go into even if it feels like a bit of conflict opening up by letting the other person talk it's such a nice it's just such a nice way to be and I think it sets a tone and I think it's something that everyone should think about when they go into any room or any situation.

12:32Leah Spears:So I remember you saying for you, difficult conversations, you have found you will lean into them. Oh yeah. I'm not bothered about any conversations. A lot of people listening are like, they hate difficult conversations. It's the most popular training I ever get asked. And the question is like, how do I do it? So listening, how do you not be bothered by them? What is, how have you overcome that? Yeah. So the thing is, you know, you're in a job and you've got to get it done right okay no matter what that is and I think the first thing to do is if you know you're going to go into a difficult situation with someone is take a beat feel it in your gut just go in take a moment to kind of compose yourself for a start off right so look look after you first then let the other person have their point of view try and understand what that point of view is like what's the nuance of what are they actually bothered about what are they trying to do what what's the point they're trying to make let them have that time and you'll often find that people go on and on and on and on and tell you everything that you and then you you're kind of you know going around it in your brain and you're like oh I get it now right they're not just trying to block me they're not just trying to be an asshole or like actually they've got a valid concern but what I've done is I've rooted around for it and I found it and often that concern is something that I can go, oh yeah, well don't worry about that because we're going to do this or have you thought about this and why don't we look at it this way?

13:58And then immediately that person softens. So, you know, whatever situation you're in, I think just let the other person have that time. Yeah. It gives you time to think, gives you time to compose yourself and, you know, try and work

14:09Leah Spears:it out. It sounds for me that most of the things you approach is from a curious mindset. Yeah. Has that always been, like from a kid where you use that curious mindset, have you developed that? um I think I've always been like that I mean it's hard now I guess I kind of have to reflect back a little bit but as a child I either wanted to be a stunt well it was a stunt man back in my day but I definitely should say stunt person now wanted to be a stunt man or a brain surgeon or the prime minister wow they're the things I wanted to do um so I think all those things are probably just curiosity of going oh maybe I can run the country maybe like what goes on in that big building there or what's going on behind the scenes?

14:48How are they making that? Or, you know, what's going on in someone's head? It's all things where you have to really dig into something where it feels quite, you know, important to have a part in. So yeah, maybe that curiosity has always been there. But I love finding stuff out. It's like it makes the world go around. And it gives you such a beautiful view on life. I find people fascinating. and that does come in handy for my role now because you know when you do customer research around something it's not just about what people are saying it's their body language as well so they could be saying one thing but their body is telling you something else understanding the sentiment of a nation I just think is a skill set that I don't think I'll ever be the best at it but I do want to be brilliant at it and I do want everyone around me to be brilliant at that as well like it's just it's fascinating and the things that you find out from that the insights that you get you can turn them into the most amazing ideas and that is what gets me off I guess just sitting

15:53Leah Spears:here listening to you I'm like you have like big bold ambitions like I definitely as a kid didn't think about being prime minister so it sounds like you yeah you naturally think big and that's it's sort of making sense now being in a brand like Paddy allows you that space yeah to think big to be curious to be bold for you in your life what's the most controversial thing you think you've done oh my god that's a really hard question I don't know if I've ever done anything controversial it depends what you mean by controversial as well so there's controversial that's down here and then there's like way way controversial um I definitely have blagged my way into certain situations businesses that I shouldn't have been in jobs that I might not qualified for um quotes that I've even got from people for my dissertation by saying I was someone else like I definitely have a way of kind of getting where water can't that's what someone said to me once um but it's all in the name of creativity or it's all in the name of doing something fun it's never anything that would be detrimental to a brand detrimental to myself or anyone else it's it's pure mischief yeah and can that mischief would you say you're a bold risk taker or cautious risk taker I'm a calculated risk taker um I did a year as a risk risk manager um which was interesting because it was actually really dull like for a person like me managing risk is it can be a dull process you know if you've ever done it you've got your risk register and you yeah you know you have to put your controls in place and you have to score it and all these kind of things and you have to really get into the nitty gritty but it's a brilliant brilliant discipline to have because once you want to go somewhere you can do a mental risk register what controls have I got in place what's the outcome going to be what's the worst that's going to happen how am I going to manage that so you can be as bold as you want to be as long as you've got that structure in place you can't just be like oh I'm just going to do this and bugger the consequences like that's never going to work you're never going to hold a job down and you might not be alive so um you know it's like the stuntman thing right so I wanted to be a stuntman realize that that's a job that could potentially kill me so it was maybe something that I'd veer out of um but it did it did develop a love of of tv and tv programs and how things get made so you know I managed the risk in my own head even at 11 probably and that makes a lot of sense and I know a very influential leader that you had that's probably developed a lot of your leadership star.

18:33Leah Spears:And if I say this, what is it? Rick Bendel? Rick Bendel. Yeah. I mean, I have got, yeah, I've got so many, many things to say about Rick Bendel. For those people who know them, it almost goes unsaid in terms of what a genius he was. His leadership style definitely, definitely influenced me very early on in my career at Asda. He was the greatest storyteller of all time. I mean, he would have thousands of people in conferences, literally not breathing because they're just waiting to hear what he's got to say. He was this amazing man, genius, customer insights he had around mass market and what would work for 19 million people every week were outstanding, something to be amazed at.

19:18That man never turned a computer on or used his then BlackBerry once, right? He never did anything with tech. And I was like how has he got so far without doing any of that and it's the power of storytelling and my current boss Michelle Spillan another another amazing storyteller who I'm obsessed with I mean again she has the room in stitches everyone's waiting to hear what she has to say that power of that storytelling can really help bring people teams on a journey and that's something that I've tried to do I'm not as brilliant as they are I never will be but little bits of them kind of come through in me now.

19:56And equally, you know, that's what I'm doing for a living. I'm a brand storyteller. So even if, you know, I'm not articulating it to a team, I'm articulating it across TV screens, YouTube, social, wherever it might be. So I think no matter what is going on in the world, AI is coming in, you know, lots and lots of new advances in technology. Keeping storytelling at the heart of everything you do, I think is going to be the power that

20:24Leah Spears:unlocks potential creativity for evermore yeah I think it's also unlocking human connection yeah because how do you feel in terms of like leadership day-to-day like with your team how do you feel because I think unfortunately we're also now stuck to a screen stuck to our mobiles I was just traveling in today and it's just everyone's headphone it's just actually very sad to watch where society's going how do you keep stories alive with your team in terms of hybrid working or everyone being locked on a computer how do you bring people together I mean there's personal ways that I do it and then there's probably ways that we all do it as a team I think as a team at Paddy we're very collaborative in that way of trying to keep people together because we physically get people together a lot um I think probably our agencies get a little bit annoyed at us because when we go and shoot we bring everybody in team so even you know even I'll be there the grads will be there you know somebody on work experience might pop along or you know someone who's just said you know what I'd love to find out what you do I'm like yeah come along that's that's absolutely fine we're all there crammed in video village um and the agency's like how many people do you want to bring like and but I'm like do you know what all these people have expressed an interest and we all want to be together and we all want to learn and we all want to see what's going on so so what like you know that's that's the kind of thing that you're going to have to get over when you're kind of working with me is that I'm very kind of let's we'll get together um so we do encourage a lot of you know physical meetups and everything again with agencies like we'll someone's presenting back to us for the first time on an idea like we'll always go in and listen to that face to face I struggle with zoom and always have now I've got to use it because um everyone is everywhere all the time like it's just a necessity of life now isn't it but I do find it so transactional so the way that we kind of manage that is you know we all come on we say what we've done that morning or what we've done that weekend or you know just spend five minutes at least just having a chat as normal people um and that makes all the difference it's five minutes out of a meeting that might be an hour so you know let's just let's just go for it um hear what they've got to say and as you put up agencies it just made me think yeah we've got a lot of people from agencies listening to this what would you say is the secret power of a great agency what is it you look for um honesty collaboration uh trust transparency chemistry great creativity people who want to be brave that seems like a really long list um and actually that's what we found in bbh the agency that we've got now it is such a beautiful relationship with Karen and her team and it all comes from having open honest conversations they will take us places we might not even want to go um and that's great because then you've got someone else who's really pushing for the stars and you can hone it together um have really honest conversations about things um change things if you want to change things everyone goes in trusting you can test the hell out of something but if our creative directors change their mind the night before we play out on something major like a music track which has been known to happen if that's what they believe in and it's not going to break the ad then so be it just let it go just let it go so you know it comes from great chemistry great relationships great creativity all all those things for sure and I think the key word you said there is trust and relationships and unfortunately again we can get too busy we forget to nurture the relationship and we go very transactional very task-based it's like right that's off my to-do list yeah and I am seeing a lot of client agency relationships falling down yeah because it's just too task-based versus just going just picking up the phone see how you are today yeah you're right yeah exactly I don't know why people have forgotten how to be human I know like it's so weird I'm like you're you're actually a person people have lives outside of this that you know we love what we do of course we do and it's such a powerful tool to grow a business so I don't want to dismiss advertising like in a big sweeping statement but at the end of the day like we we all have lives um we all have other things going on that are more important than work families children you know you've got to understand what's going on you know some people don't want you to know everything that's going on of course they don't but you know if someone's got something going on in their personal life that they want to talk about then then great like I I welcome that and I'm a very open person um I'll talk about anything anyone wants me to talk are you an oversharer oh I'm a total oversharer I'm so embarrassing it's yeah I tell again that's probably part of the storytelling right it's a way to put people at ease I have a lot of embarrassing stories I'm quite clumsy I'm quite accident prone um I also seem to find myself in really random situations um and again like I'm happy to share that and people people find that endearing can we have one now i need a really embarrassing story or really random you're happy to go out to everybody yeah i know i'm like uh right let's come back to that question yeah yeah yeah just a quick reminder if you haven't already to please hit the like button and subscribe to the channel it's a small action that makes a big difference you'll be the first to know when new episodes drop and your support helps us create meaningful content for leaders like you.

25:56Leah Spears:I'd also love to hear from you so if you have any thoughts, questions or ideas pop them into the comments and if you're curious about how my leadership coaching or training could support you or your team just drop me a DM and we'll set up a call. Thanks so much, now let's get back to the episode. What I would love to know is in your leadership or in life wherever you'd like to go, where do you want to start developing more courage? I would love to be in a position where I can allow my team to push their courage of their convictions on and their confidence. At Paddy Power, everyone thinks it's just a load of, you know, lads that are, you know, totally super confident.

26:41And, you know, that's the perception of the brand. Actually, we're probably about 50-50 male, female, especially in the brand team. and there's a lot of younger women coming up through the ranks who I wish I could just fast forward them, give them everything that I know now and get them to a place where they feel totally confident in themselves because I can see it in meetings, I can see it on presentations. Heartbreaking is a strong word but I almost just want to like zap some superpower into them um and that that's where I'd love to be I'd love to know that the things I've learned have been passed passed on to someone else and that someone else goes on to be amazing and you know maybe becomes my boss one day or whatever it is I'm not bothered but yeah I'd love I'd love that

27:29Leah Spears:so what do you think if you say you know I definitely know I sit here a much more confident woman than I was previously yeah what do you think for you helped you build your confidence I think I know you you didn't you weren't suddenly I remember you saying to me confidence wasn't just there for you no it wasn't I was incredibly incredibly shy when I was younger and when I say younger I mean like in my teens number 20s the thing that built my confidence is exactly what we were talking about before and that's knowledge I've definitely been called a SWOT before and I don't mind that because that gives me confidence knowing all there is to know about a certain thing that I'm working on or looking into gives me confidence but also I think there's a humility that you need to have that offsets that, that also builds your confidence, which is not knowing.

28:19So when you ask questions of people, that builds your confidence because you don't, you can admit you don't know, if that makes sense. I know it's a kind of contradiction in terms, but actually that does help because again, you're learning, you're finding out more, you're finding out why you're giving someone else a chance to speak you might even be taking the heat off yourself in a situation right so there's loads and loads of benefit to that so yeah not knowing I think is is also a key to unlocking confidence it's something mind me someone said to me was they said to me joe you need to have more certainty in yourself stop chasing confidence have more

28:56Leah Spears:certainty and I was like I don't know what you're talking about no one's ever said that to me before and it was like I think it was like 39 40 when it first got said and I suddenly realized it's that inner certainty when you say you don't know is to be that inner certainty that if you don't know something just fine it's okay and if you do something and it doesn't go quite how you thought it would go you're going to be fine you're going to learn from it you'll get over it and it's that inner certainty that I've done my prep I'm going to show up my best I'm going to give it my best yeah if it doesn't go to plan yeah fine I'll just do it better next time exactly and I think that comes with the authenticity piece that we talked about it's fine to be going oh I haven't got an I haven't got a clue about that actually.

29:34Like, what do you think? Like, that's fine. Nobody has to know everything. Who knows everything? Like, I don't know one person that genuinely knows.

29:42Leah Spears:It'd be boring if you knew everything. Also, yeah, you'd be weird. Well, yeah. Not even sure AI knows everything. That's going to be scary. Yeah. Although I do have very interesting conversations with ChatGPT. Like, I'm not going to lie. It knows a lot. So how do you use it? Do you know, it's so funny because I use it on a daily basis for various bits and pieces. So whether it's like work things or whether it's just I need to find something out, it might be something to do with football that I want to know. It might be something to do with my little boy's homework. But it's really weird because it remembers the questions that you've asked.

30:14And if you're very specific with it as well, it almost comes back to you and says, oh, I've remembered that you're doing that thing today, like the Courageous Leaders podcast or whatever it might be. And it remembers. And I'm like, that is so freaky. but if you learn to use it properly and again it's the way you approach it you treat it like a person hi how are you today um you know not just like you put please on I think that's costing everyone millions isn't it by asking them all these questions but actually I don't know it's like a really weird treat it like a human and it'll give you information like a human instead of giving you information like google yeah um I think it's brilliant I am fascinated by it well

30:55Leah Spears:I've started searching in Google now how I would type in chat GBT now it's really I've just noticed the change in now how I ask for stuff now I talk to a computer it's very strange and I just picked up on there um that you said you know googling asking chat GBT about football yes I do think it was very courageous you're going to work for Paddy Power when it was a prerequisite that you know football yes and I didn't know anything about football I mean I knew the basics right I'm not blind it's everywhere isn't it it's like the biggest sport in the country but um you know I went for a job in a football dominated business and did have to admit at the time that I was going to have to lean quite heavily into football and I had all sorts of tactics to do that about every single top trump set with all the world's best football managers played it with my little boy for weeks on end so that I could learn it again it just goes down to my geekiness but yeah it was brave but sometimes you know I'm valued at work for not knowing everything about football because we're in a business that although it's football led we appeal to a mass market and sometimes I can lift football ideas out into those very mainstream ideas if you know someone's talking about a football joke and I'm like oh I don't get that then it means no one else is going to get it right yeah or unless you're like hardcore um so there's value like I say value in not knowing all the time you know having different perspectives yeah exactly exactly I do love how you backed yourself going knowing that was pre-recreasing you're going to the interview I don't know you still need to hire me yeah you still need me for this reason I think we had it's funny in the interview actually it did give me an insight into what life would be like because I think I was presenting on a certain campaign for Michelle and you know she'd asked me to look at it and what did I think and you know how was I going to develop this strategically and what was the execution going to be all those kind of like normal things and the social media team had a real life issue going on football related and she took a message in the interview because she had to it was like an emergency um and it was really really funny because she said all right this has just happened it's totally confidential I was like okay this is exciting um again my curiosity is like sparked I'm like okay what is this what is this and she told me when it was she said what would you do and I had to think in 30 seconds what I was going to do in that situation and I said something and I knew we were going to get on like a house on fire she roared laughing and she was like that's brilliant I'll just text Jack now and tell him that that's what we've got to do and I was like oh my god I've already added value I've not even got the job yet so yeah it's and you know then what that's going to be like in that business it's smart it's reactive it's fast it's funny um it doesn't take itself too seriously but it definitely takes the work seriously and I think that that's probably a very accurate summation of of me yeah which is lovely I see how much you light up talking about it so you've obviously found found the environment that really kind of suits you yeah yeah um and I'm going to come back to it I'm not going to let you off the hook embarrassing story random you said you got loads of them I do oh I can't think of that suitable for the internet really they're that bad yeah really bad really bad honestly I find myself in the most ridiculous situations like you would not believe I think I've got one of those faces as well where people feel like they need to talk to me like on the street on the train people just will come up to me but again I just kind of carry that on because I'm like who are you like where did you come from like what's going on with you um and then it's a great story to tell isn't it so yeah but no I don't know if they're that bad I'll let you off yeah let me off you're gonna get loads of messages going what the hell happened yeah I might do some Chatham House rules somewhere well I'd love to know you've had a fantastic career and very very inspiring you know the way you approach leadership and what you care about yeah what advice would you pass on to your younger self I would say don't dye your hair brown if you're blonde definitely be yourself um don't let anyone tell you to try and be something else that's the biggest piece of advice that I can give because it never works and I genuinely genuinely think that there are ways to hone your skill hone your leadership skills become a master of your craft continue to learn so that you can grow yourself but grow your true self not into something else yeah that's beautiful thank you and it has just sparked a quick question for me the people listening going that all sounds great how do I fit that into my back-to-back calendar how do you make sure you protect that space for you to keep learning having the time to go deep on knowledge yeah I just need to understand how do you do that yeah well I think you're in control of your own calendar right yeah you're in control of your own time and if it's a priority for you you will make time for it now don't get me wrong something has to give somewhere so you know if you want to be going to the gym if you've got a family if you want to be excellent in your career if you want to learn if you want to try something else you can always find a hack to fit things in I've been on meetings before maybe not a paddy so much actually because we're always about everywhere maybe more in COVID but you know I've been on the treadmill while I've been on meetings um you know you find these little hacks um while I'm driving in the car I was trying to learn Greek from a holiday because you know I love that when you can talk at least some of the language um you know I'm very very interested in languages I've just got um a course at work actually that I've got from Paddy which is how to learn Japanese oh wow so I'm going to try that I don't think we've got a business in Japan but maybe we could there you go you could start one yeah maybe I don't know if it's legal there but I mean we could maybe start one but yeah I mean you know you always find a way if it interests you you will make time for it I think you know going to bed at night put a podcast on and even if you only listen to the first five ten minutes before you fall asleep you've got five or ten minutes just go back to the next night five minutes a night like you know there's like seven nights in a week that's a podcast episode like there's always a way um you know just just make make the time yeah you can you're in control of that there's make it central to what's important yeah exactly i don't think there's any excuse yeah for not making time for yourself on that note thank you so much you've been an absolutely brilliant guest i could talk to you all day thank you for being so inspiring and i thank everyone for listening and we'll see you next week if you've been enjoying the Courageous Leaders podcast.

37:25Leah Spears:We'd love it if you'd subscribe to our YouTube channel. Your support helps us keep creating quality content and reaching more leaders like you who are ready to grow and make a real impact. We fund this podcast ourselves so every subscription truly makes a difference and allows us to support courageous leaders like you. Thank you for being part of the journey.