Waiting for Confidence? Stop. Do This Instead - Lauren Spearman

0:00If I can be naked in a room full of 20 other people, then I can do anything.

0:04Lauren Spearman:I thought it was actually really insightful. You said actually the minute people put clothes on, that's when it was strange. And actually then how much we do that in our lives now, judging people, assuming who they are. I think the more as human beings we can embrace that uncertainty, I think our confidence would naturally be easier to access. Because we're not constantly seeking the known. Embracing that uncertainty and not being fixed to the outcome. Again, it's really freeing. It's really liberating. You don't feel disappointed because actually other things may have happened on the way. Confidence isn't having all the answers.

0:36It's knowing you'll be okay to deal with whatever happens. What's your relationship with confidence?

0:41Lauren Spearman:Oh, terrible. Hello and welcome back to the Courageous Leaders podcast brought to you by the Change Creators, where we strengthen leadership teams, creating environments where people and profits can grow together. I'm your host, Joanna Howes, and on today's episode, I'm excited to welcome our guest, Lauren Spearman. Lauren is a brand consultant and content creator on a mission to make hiring fairer and careers more fulfilling. Named a changemaker by Marketing Week, she's built a powerful community by speaking up about salary transparency and the realities of job hunting. So let's get started. Lauren, welcome to the show.

1:19Lauren Spearman:I am so excited to first meet you in person for the first time and have you on the show. Thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited and I'm going to go straight in. What's been a courageous moment for you? I would say two years ago when I was out of work by choice I chose to go on TikTok and make a video about how much I was struggling to find work. I posted a video about how I pulled out of a hiring process because I'd had a four-stage interview and there was a seven tasks as part of the final stage and I was like this is just ridiculous this isn't um I always think a job an interview is to show that you're competent not to actually do the job so yeah I turned to TikTok and was like something doesn't feel right this doesn't feel ethical and I think that video had 250 ,000 views and I thought maybe I'm not alone in this.

2:10Lauren Spearman:Wow I just need to know what was in you that went I'm going to record this and put this out to the world on TikTok because there's so many people that's a horrifying idea to do yeah um I wish I could say that it was a calculated move and I had some thought behind it but I think um so I'd been out of work for four months so I'd up until this point I'd had a 15 year or so career in advertising marketing so I thought I had fairly good experience and yeah having been out of work something felt really off and I think that the kind of courage to post on TikTok was more slight desperation and also I felt very lonely I think my confidence wasn't at an all-time low and something I've realized throughout my career we talk a lot about doing the right thing and fairness is really important to me and it didn't feel like the company that I was interviewing for were doing the right thing so yeah it wasn't necessarily it was a happy accident I think because that has taken my career in a whole different direction.

3:11Yeah completely

3:12Lauren Spearman:it's amazing and you talk about there in terms of your confidence was an all-time low what's your relationship with confidence oh terrible I think my baseline is always I'm not good enough I think that as some that is something that I recognize it from school and it was always oh god the tears are coming already um I I was never big at school but I was always bigger than the other girls so I always felt my weight like there was a lot of uh I had a relationship with my weight at school and that kind of confidence of not being like the other girls so I think it's always kind of started from a physical appearance weird thing um and yeah my baseline has always been I'm not good enough there's always someone better than me someone more interesting smarter funnier more beautiful etc so confidence has been something throughout my entire life I've had to work on and interestingly whenever I get called confidence now confident now it's like the biggest like it's the biggest compliment for me because it's something I've really had to work on I think when I was younger I used to see confidence as something you hit once and then you're there and you plateau and that's it you're confident forever but actually in the last probably few years and a whole lot of therapy I've realized actually confidence is like I see it like a wave you know it will come and go and there will be times when I'm absolutely riding that wave and there'll be other times when I'm in new situations I don't feel that and that's okay because I'm doing something for the first time it's uncomfortable you know I can't predict the outcome of it so yeah I I have a very wavy relationship with confidence I would say thank you for sharing that because I think it's so normal so many of us have that relationship but feel can we tell people that and we project he's like when I first saw your TikToks the assumption would be are you confident in oh you can do those TikToks because you're a confident person I couldn't do it because I'm not so for people to know that actually that isn't your natural stance to just turn the camera on and put it on I think can also be very inspiring for people listening to go okay well okay maybe I can do that then yeah and I think when I when I make certain TikToks whether I'm calling out bad behavior in the industry or maybe I'm being vulnerable and sharing my experience I think the confidence comes from knowing it's just my opinion or it's just my experience I'm not trying to be an expert in anything I'm not trying I think we often see on social media and people can paint things as black and white and they're just not that at all like life is so nuanced so I think the confidence comes from knowing I'm not trying to be something I'm not I'm not trying to be anyone except myself and weirdly the more I'm myself the more I feel comfortable online.

5:54Lauren Spearman:What was the process you did to kind of really get to know who you are? Lots of therapy lots of therapy when I was younger and I kind of touched on the weight thing earlier I remember going to a therapist once and I was talking about my weight and I was saying you know on social media I don't see people with bodies like mine and she just kind of shut me down in the nicest possible way and she was like do you think people like you don't she's like do you think people with bodies like yours don't exist and I was like oh okay yeah I just don't see them and it was a really lovely gentle way to kind of make me realize some of my overthink it was just everything is in my head um and i've recently i've come up with this uh theme for myself this summer called harmless summer uh with a h in brackets it's i'm gonna get my arms out this summer and not care so i spent my whole life like not getting my arms out because they look a bit like corned beef and they're a bit fat and blah blah blah and then i was like who cares so i was away last week um and i wore sleeveless the whole time and nothing bad happened so i think whenever I'm having the wobble the wobbles rather than shy away from it I just lean into it and then I realize nothing bad happens or actually some good stuff can happen and it's okay for the people listening going that sounds amazing and that is very very inspiring and they still sit and they're going but I couldn't do it what is it you that maybe changed within how you thought or has changed in the decisions or the beliefs you have that gone no I can because that's a big thing for a lot of people to go a whole week sleeveless when you haven't it's a big step I mean spent 41 years hiding yeah and you've hired you've suddenly gone and in an environment I know you were in can it's a place you've not been before so even just being in a new environment that was new enough let alone then push yourself yeah to do something more as well that is what how what allowed you to do it great question I think having I think that that confidence to to make those moves or try something new is when I look back any time that I have been vulnerable or brave or tried something knew it's always ended okay or something good has happened like um and again this comes from years of therapy it's if I was to take the evidence to court you know what evidence have I got to show something bad is going to happen or what evidence have I got to show this is going to be the outcome and there's none of it um so I often have to kind of say um I read something once where it's like your first thought is your self-conscious thought and then your second thought is your conscious thought so often you know if it's something where I'm maybe a bit you know shy to get on stage and I'm like I'm gonna everyone's gonna laugh at me because when I'm doing some public speaking it's like okay well that's my first thought ignore that one what's my rational thought which is the second thought and it's like well the reality is yeah I might talk too fast which happens a lot I'm sure you'll experience on this podcast or I might fluff a line but the reality is like nothing bad is probably going to happen if I'm that terrible you know I won't get booked again so I think I often tell myself what's my second thought and that helps me kind of make make braver moves yeah do you feel because what I'm hearing a little bit but I might be wrong is you've let go of the outcome a little bit yes it's more about just take the action but let go out letting go of this perfect perfectionist outcome that maybe we're striving for I think so I think and I think a lot of that has so two three things quite big things have happened in the last two years for me that have changed that so one it's changes in my career so quitting a job with no plan b and then going on this weird trajectory of i guess i'm i've got a portfolio career now so i make money in lots of different ways rather than climbing that career ladder of like what's the next position okay i was ahead of can i get to director all of that kind of thing so that the career change has really kind of made me let go of what's ahead um my little sister got diagnosed with cancer in october 2023 she's okay now but all of that stuff of the worry of like well i can't do that or can't do that I was like life is so short you never know what's going to happen so that's kind of definitely made me see life in a different way um and then the third thing I think is turning 40 like that has been amazing for me I think we um we as society like we really demonize aging but it's such a privilege because you have you know expanded life experience wisdom I love spending my time with older people because I can just learn so much from you know I've got friends in their 50s 60s 70s and you just learn so much from them so I think that kind of trifecta has just made me made me let go of things which I think in turn has helped grow my confidence because a lot of it's just not doesn't really matter yeah it's just lovely because I just feel like you're not carrying loads of baggage yeah it's quite freeing yeah it's like I just let go of that suitcase that I've been carrying for like 39 years yeah yeah and I think um yeah I think it is really freeing and that's not to say I don't have my wobbles you know I have an existential crisis about my career probably once every three weeks but overall I think yeah there's a lot of change and and the privilege of growing older and having more experience and showing that you can make bold moves or big decisions and the outcome will be okay yeah um and I read something once years ago that really stuck with me it's like confidence isn't having all the answers it's knowing you'll be okay to deal with whatever happens and I think that's how I see things now confidence is me it's been such a thing because I used to say I'm I think you're the same you're very naturally shy yes I'm naturally shy so it's hilarious that both of us are now being video doing a podcast I find it so bizarre how how have you dealt with that well because I say I was so I didn't speak at school I was so shy and for me I think it's a lot of like self-trust and self-belief and that thing of I looked in the mirror over and over again and just kept saying to myself I'm enough I'm worthy and I belong and no matter what happens I can handle it so I would repeat that mantra to myself probably about 50 times a day just reprogramming my pathways and it did help but as soon as I think when you said like not having all the answers for me as soon as I realized you can't wait for confidence to come yep that's not what confidence is confidence you only get through taking action so then I was like right this is why courage is so important to me it's like right I need to find that courage and that self-belief to trust that it's not about the resources you've got it's about how resourceful you are as a person so if I could believe I was resourceful and I could again look at the evidence to go well you've been through this you've got through that so if I can then act my confidence will then come because I've acted absolutely so many people wait for the confidence before they act and I'm like no that's why you you'll never feel confident because it's the action that comes from doing yeah yeah that's that's the perfect analogy of how I feel about things as well I think it's interesting what you said about at school you didn't speak I was very similar and I think I spent a lot of my early career just sat in meetings just almost not listening to what was happening going to say something say something say something and just almost like ruining my own enjoyment of things and so every time I guess so then I started to say something and I'd say something and nothing bad happened or you try again a little bit um but again it's it's all evidence-based it's like you have to try it to know that you'll be okay yeah you reminded me of a thing so when I did my coaching training so when I as you say confidence can go in highs and lows when I arrived in Australia for like my big exec role that I'd been working and climbing the ladder so hard for went to shit but when I left that my confidence was on the floor absolutely on the floor and I was in this coaching training and I went back to my natural stance of going back sitting at the back of the room I wouldn't put my hand up for questions the idea put my hand up to ask a question my heart would like feel like it's coming out my chest my palms would go sweaty and I remember my mentor the teacher coming up to me and go just said you need to raise your standards I was like I don't know no one's ever even used that word with me standards I hadn't been in my vocabulary before and they just said yeah I said I'm standing in front of you I've got all this wisdom all this knowledge of years that would help you and you have got such a low standard that you won't even put your hand up and ask a question that and I just looked at her I was like oh my word and then from that day on I started to sit at the front of the class and even if I didn't have a question I kept my hand up I'm not having low standards and what it did it drilled into me to raise my standards it's a Tony Robbins raise your standards raise your results and my heart would still want to come out my chest my my throat would still go dry forming the question I still say it like a hundred times in my head to probably try and get it right but I was like I want to be the person that can put my hand up and ask and that again changed everything I love that and actually that's something I'm working on like last week I went to a talk and I had a question and I didn't have the confidence to do it and I listened to everyone else I was like ah so yeah and actually it shows that you're interested in engaging as well right which if you are if you're at the front of the class or on stage that's that's such a lovely thing that someone's that engaged that they want to ask more or hear more yeah because I know if I'm doing a talk well you do the tools as well and when the hand goes up you're like oh phew someone's resonated with something this is amazing but I think that's interesting that then you you didn't but that feeling afterwards going why didn't i yeah i wanted to because i started to learn when i did put my hand even if i didn't get picked it actually boosted my self-esteem because like i was willing to go there yes and that that then i could walk away going i i still held my standard yes yes i love that i love that perspective i've not heard that before yeah it changed my life absolutely i'm gonna challenge myself over the next week.

15:16Lauren Spearman:It's like just going to go, what standards do you want to have? And then how does that then help you show up? Just a quick reminder, if you haven't already, to please hit the like button and subscribe to the channel. It's a small action that makes a big difference. You'll be the first to know when new episodes drop and your support helps us create meaningful content for leaders like you. I'd also love to hear from you. So if you have any thoughts, questions or ideas, pop them into the comments and if you're curious about how my leadership coaching or training could support you or your team just drop me a dm and we'll set up a call thanks so much now let's get back to the episode so can you explain more so p there's a lot of people i think in the market right now who you know not not in roles not sure how to evolve and that explain i'd love to hear a bit about your this portfolio sort of career you've got and actually how that has changed your confidence and it boosted it yeah so I think what I realized is throughout my career I'm very big on being clear on what your values are and you know all of this stuff so mine are honesty variety fun autonomy and creativity so I know that when I'm leaning into those that's when I'm most fulfilled and when I look back at the pockets of my career where I've been least engaged or least interested or least fulfilled is when those have dipped and vice versa so I think what I've realized is I so I've developed this career where so my background is in marketing uh predominantly social that's the thing I love and I work across a wider brand but social is always a thing that I come back to and so when I went I went freelance by accident and I was like no I'm gonna stick to social and then I've now developed this career where I consult with in-house social teams as part of my day job and I call it my day job but actually I earn just as much as big from being a content creator from public speaking from mentoring so all sorts of a whole variety and I think it's exactly that it leans into my values because I get to be creative on different projects I'm working on I get to have a variety the autonomy comes from no saying yes to projects I want to be part of saying no actually that doesn't line to me or or even having a confidence and say no I'm I actually can't offer you what you're looking for I'm not the best person for the job um so I think yeah I think the portfolio career has happened by accident and actually it was only maybe a year ago that I first even heard the term portfolio career I was like what is this I'm just again I've just followed my whole career has just been follow the thing that interests me so when I left university my first job was actually working for the National Blood Service as a PA I was an absolutely terrible or PA, which is, I laugh about it now because my admin side of anything I do is shite.

18:04So yeah, I was a PA for a little bit and then I fell into advertising working for Sky. And then I've never had a, oh, this is my dream job. This is what I want to do. I've just followed what am I interested in and where do I feel like I get the most energy? So that has been the theme of my entire career. And I think that's what's happening now. And I think one of the reasons why I was so reluctant to go freelance when I was looking for work two years ago is because one of the things I discovered in my corporate life was I love being a people manager and so I the first time I ever you know would you know within a team manage one or two people and then I the first time I headed up a team and you know then I got a few

18:43Lauren Spearman:promotions and headed up three teams and I was like I thrive off of helping people in their career and helping them develop and because and you'll know this way more than I do but when people are fulfilled and passionate about what they do at work you get so much out of them and they enjoy it so much more and I think interestingly with the content that I make online in the career space the thing that I miss the most about being part of a team is managing people but I get to help and support so many more people than the 30 people I had in my team before so I get so much fulfillment from that side of it as well so I'm in this weird kind of dual place at the moment where you know I'm still doing what I used to do in terms of the social side of things and consulting but I'm also navigating this whole new path which is really interesting and it aligns with um a couple years ago I heard on a podcast someone talk about she doesn't have a dream job she has a dream lifestyle and work facilitates that and oh it's so powerful it's giving me goosebumps I have repeated that so many times and that's how I see things now like I think I mentioned to you just now I don't I've never had a dream job but I do have a dream lifestyle and work can facilitate that and and that that makes me more ambitious than I have ever been in my life because I want to help other people in their careers but actually that will help keep me fulfilled which will keep me to help me and motivate me keep doing it it's the lovely circle yeah yeah I'm just really curious and I'm sure people listening or watching this are is what's the dream lifestyle to not feel stressed about work is one thing so to be able to separate work from and that is still something I'm working on I'll be very clear on that I think I am a work in progress on this um to have more freedom of time that's really important to me like yes I know yes I can earn more money but I'm never going to get time back with my friends my family and that's super important to me and to feel I guess to also feel confident in all aspects of my life I think that's my dream lifestyle is to yeah to enjoy it and have fun yeah and that's terrible I'm not really articulating it very well I think it's more of a it's a feeling isn't it yeah a feeling like I've got a good balance I think so much of my I didn't realize it until I left corporate life that so much of my identity was based on my job title oh yeah and I I'm like that's really sad because anywhere I've left I'm easily replaceable right I'm going to be hired the next week whereas my friends and my family aren't going to see me like that so the more time I can spend doing that and you know like um I had a day off earlier in the week and I woke up in the morning and me and my boyfriend like it's the final day for England India Test Match and we went up Teddingly in Leeds and just watched the cricket that for me that's a dream lifestyle yes it means I'll have to work this weekend but having that freedom because yeah that autonomy which again comes back to my values is really important so interesting I don't know if it's a age thing or a stage thing or something is my husband and I used to go for walks and say what do you want to do the last what we did is we'd spent the week in Cornwall it was how do you want to be feeling so it was really interesting when you suddenly was articulating it going it's a feeling you've got and how we've suddenly shifting to how do we want to feel during the day how do we want to feel in our life it's not about what we need to do yep that's quite a shift yeah it's because it's it's also harder to measure yeah so I've always been someone at the start of every year I do my news resolutions I do my vision board and I kind of put specifics on there but it's it's so intrinsically linked to your kind of that gut feeling does this feel right am I am I feeling comfortable is this the life I want to leave yeah lead not leave that's a bit more sorry so I absolutely love watching your tiktoks and I think it's so courageous and how vulnerable you are and it just helps people to really connect and see you and not feel alone and I watched one this morning which was very much about you sharing how you feel lost and even in the time you know when you say oh I advise people what to do but I am actually feeling lost and that just connected so much with me and I'd love to know what do you do in those times when you're feeling lost?

22:48I've learned to sit in the moment a little bit more and let it kind of wash over me rather than take any massive action and panic too much. Every so often I will have a panic and I'll go what am I doing my career and then my boyfriend will go just why don't you go back to a nine-to-five and I'm like absolutely not I'm not that lost it's fine it's fine brings you back I think that massively helps me um I think interesting I was having a conversation last year with someone we were actually talking about comments that we get on TikTok and um you know you can get lots of IV comments but you can also get awful comments and she was saying I've learned to not not lean into either of them too much so I don't get take too much praise from the good ones and I don't take too much from the bad and I think sometimes I take that into how I feel so actually if I'm having the best day it's great but I'm not going to expect every day to be like that and if I'm having the worst day I'm like okay this will pass and it will but I think to the point about yeah the specific video you mentioned I think yeah it was the irony of like I'm trying to help people with their careers while not feeling lost in mine but I think it's that relatability if you see someone that is only ever sharing their successes it's harder to relate to them so therefore do you will you take their advice as seriously or will you will you feel as close to them because actually maybe they're not experiencing what you're experiencing so it's those moments that I am the most vulnerable that I feel the most connected to people yeah um so then it means that actually when I am sharing or this is how I've helped get out of it it's because I've experienced it not because I'm talking from a place of theory which I think has been helpful I think it's remembering it doesn't matter even if someone's

24:24Lauren Spearman:a real expert in a subject they're still a human being at the end of the day and they're going to have days that are challenging and hard yes so navigating kind of this kind of portfolio career you know you're doing more speaking on stage you're recording yourself on videos doing tiktok how do you manage your energy to do that so if you say like confidence is like a daily thing you work on and i'm gonna take a guess being shy normally means there's some introverse being more introverted how do you manage your energy to be able to show up as you do great great question it's something that I am working on at the moment mainly because things have been so busy my energy has definitely been lower um I give myself a break sometimes I tell myself no one's necessarily expecting content every day and I try to jump on the moments where I feel the most creative and try and make as much content as I can but on the days that I think I've learned over the last six months don't put yourself out there if you're not it's better to conserve the energy than it is to constantly be forcing yourself there's a few videos I've made where I'm almost like I feel like dead behind the eyes because I'm so exhausted but I feel like I've got to put something out and actually that's no value to me it's no value to my audience so yeah I try to do a lot of the things in my personal life that fill my cup up that give me the energy so that if work is feeling a bit flat it balances a little bit um but yeah I try not to force myself anymore to to always be showing up I think we see a lot of advice online if you're making content to be consistent and post every day and I I it mean annoyingly it's really good advice because you do see numbers go up but I also think that puts so much pressure on ourselves like we're not robots sometimes we do have down days sometimes we're busy sometimes actually sometimes we have an absolute flurry of energy and but I try to take my pressure off myself to be always on I don't think that's best for yeah for me or anyone I think that's such an important word pressure yeah how we all navigate pressure very differently I had a um when when I first got when I got my first ever head off role I had a coach and she was saying you have to eradicate should from your vocabulary because everything so I should do this I should do that and yes then we might want she's like do you want to and so that's really been helpful of well actually I should do this but why should I yeah is it because it's a pressure I'm putting on myself or is it actually because I have got a specific deadline that I need to meet and I think trying to assess that is quite has been quite healthy for me yeah and it's like I do yeah it's possibility language necessity language or pressure language oh okay yeah it's like so I say like if I feel like I say I've got to call my mum or I have to call my mom or I should call my mom it's just like yeah if I say no I want to or I will or I can it's all like more possibility language I am I learned something similar in a yoga class oh this was ages ago and it was like a I was going through a phase where I was doing like six seven a.m classes really on a bit of a fitness journey and the instructor at the beginning was saying you know rather than you've had to get up at 6 a.m this morning it's you've been able to get up at 6am I get to move my body at 6am I get to do this and psychologically I think that's it's it it creates such a positive shift and then you just feel a bit more grateful and a bit more it does it bring it it subconsciously brings a lot more energy yeah I think I've always been amazed about some of these one percent changes you can make it's like one I've introduced recently is that before I get out of bed now I just visualize my whole day ahead and then I visualize it and I see it all just going really nice I'm like oh my gosh I can't wait to meet Lauren today and I can't wait to do this and I can't wait then to get back and I get to work on this and I get to see my friends tonight because sometimes I'd wake up and not realize and be like oh my god I've got to do the podcast today I'm tired I'm not sure if I've got enough prep I've got this workshop tomorrow and then what am I going to do and oh my god I've got dinner with my friends I really need to work tonight and I'm like that's no way to start your day yes yeah and just having that moment to get my mind in the right place um I was actually before you interviewing us Anderson we're talking about mental training and that the immediate thing when you open your eyes is to do some mental training of this is how I'd like my day to be yes and show your brain what you want there's um there's a book called I want to say mind power by James Borg and there was a quote in it and I read this book probably 10 years ago and it said whether you're an optimist or a pessimist won't change the outcome but the optimist will have a better life and that's exactly what you've described is you're going in with such an optimistic view of the day that actually if things do change or don't quite go your way you'll still have enjoyed it yeah and I do that whenever I get on stage as well if I'm doing public speaking I predict how I want to feel walking off stage and it just all of a sudden shifts your energy because you'll know this more than I do but that kind of anxious and excited energy is the same energy right it's just how you how you see it in your mind how you frame it yes yeah I was listening to something that same thing of like fear and excitement is the same and I was actually coaching two co-founders yesterday and then one turned around I said I'm terrified of failure and the other one turned around and went I'm just really excited and it was amazing to see the differences of how they're approaching the same thing of failure and the fear and excitement how do you navigate those two because you are now in a you are in a very different world to probably what you planned and you say climbing the ladder where you're going how do you navigate that excited about something but also that natural fear of failure we can have I navigate it differently on different days sometimes I think I do navigate it really well and I'm like wow this opportunity I never even dreamed that was now happening and then I will also have the days of well that's it I'm going to mess it up and never happen again but I think I'm someone because I because I like variety and because I'm quite a creative person I love newness I like exploring new things so I think I try to position myself to go actually this is what a wonderful opportunity to have something new to try or actually if I do it and I don't love it I don't have to do it again so for example every time I've been on a panel or speaking on stage or doing a presentation I'm like if I really hated it I don't have to do it again but I don't know if I'll hate it or love it until I try it and I think we just touched on this at you know earlier when we were chatting half of the everything I do I'm like I'll never know unless I give it a go um a couple of years ago my friend and I we we recorded six episodes of a podcast that never came to life and the podcast was called the fuck it list and the idea was that you know we often go through life and i can't do that i can't try that but actually fuck it we'll give it a go and see what happens and so we did everything from we did a singing class we did a silent disco around leicester square we did a naked yoga class we do all these silly things we were like if i don't try i'll never know and as long as it's not like illegal or harmful to anyone why not and so i think that that kind of spirit of i'll just give it a go and see what happens has been it's really freeing it's liberating my brain can't quite cope with naked yoga class my friend and i were like whatever happens do not make eye contact with me how many people were in the class about 20 that's mad yeah so number one how did you feel walking in and then how did you feel once you'd done it walking wasn't too bad it was the most embarrassing part was actually like right at the end when you had to like put your knickers back on and then you saw everyone dressed because actually when you're all naked you know actually there's a sense of you're all on an even par but then when you're dressed it's like oh that's their style or you make assumptions about people you know about like oh okay well do they do this as their job or is this you know it's really interesting um but yeah I came out of that thinking yeah if I can if I can be naked in a room full of 20 other people then I can do anything I think that's just that's very empowering there's two things out I'm sitting here going I didn't even know that existed which is mad um but I think I kind of get there's a whole lot of weird stuff when you start googling but I think yeah the courage to you to put yourself in those situations but I think one thing is the empowering side of it and that thing of actually overriding that safety voice in your head to go what the hell am I doing no we're going to do it and expanding the comfort zone but I thought it was actually really insightful you said actually the minute people put clothes on that's when it was strange and actually then how much we do that in our lives now judging people yeah assuming who they are and I've got a big thing going on in my head at the moment where people just keep asking well what do you do versus like who are you what do you care about what's important to you and I'm I do it as well and I because it's just that comfort zone question yeah what are you noticing through going through some of those experiences and seeing that has anything shifted from you in terms of your perception of people oh yeah I mean I'm all I think I've always been a very open-minded and curious person but even more so now one of my friends I was um I'm in a relationship now but when I was single one of my friends was like you I'm going to challenge you to ask 10 men out in a week and I was like well obviously that's absolutely not going to happen but what it did shift for me was being more open to talking to strangers so I was in Spitalfields a few months after I was in Spitalfields market and I started speaking to this woman that she was selling her art on the store and we just had this amazing conversation and then she wrote me a poem and then a week later I was on a flight with a man who was visually impaired and he was talking about how he does these like um he was back to the Camino trail he was doing these like long distance walks and we just had this amazing conversation I'd never spoke to anyone on a flight before whereas now I'm that annoying person that wants to talk on a flight so I think yeah it's it's made me a lot more open-minded curious and I think to your point I see I'm much more interested in the person behind the job title because because we kind of I think we do hide behind that as a safety or a validation of you know where we are in on the ladder or whatever but people are just so much more interesting than that yeah I think we need to learn to ask better questions.

34:31Yes, yeah, I agree.

34:33Lauren Spearman:Just a quick reminder, if you haven't already, to please hit the like button and subscribe to the channel. It's a small action that makes a big difference. You'll be the first to know when new episodes drop and your support helps us create meaningful content for leaders like you. I'd also love to hear from you. So if you have any thoughts, questions or ideas, pop them into the comments. And if you're curious about how my leadership coaching or training could support you or your team just drop me a dm and we'll set up a call thanks so much now let's get back to the episode what's your relationship with uncertainty do you know yes you said you like variety you like newness but as you said your life's changed quite a bit and you've got like looking at right am i gonna is that campfire of content creator gonna go or is it the social media because you've got more uncertainty in your world probably than you've ever had yeah what's become your relationship with that i'm an absolute contradiction on this So I say that I want stability, I want routine.

35:31And then the reality is I absolutely do not want that. And my boyfriend a couple of weeks ago, he described, I can't remember, we're talking about routine or something. Like, for example, I've only spent two nights at home in the last month. Like I've traveled quite a lot. And I was like, I just want to be home. And he's like, no, you don't. He's like, you're a free spirit. So I think the uncertainty is actually something that I probably enjoy without realizing it. I think because uncertainty sounds like it's a bad thing but actually it can be quite interesting to go actually I don't know the outcome but I'm gonna I'm gonna um I'm gonna try it anyway and there's a episode of a Jay Shetty podcast I listened to where he was talking about the best advice he's ever had was to just go through open doors and you don't necessarily know what the outcome is going to be but you know anytime I'm having a conversation about work have that conversation see where it leads and it might not lead anywhere but I might have had a really interesting conversation so I actually think I yeah I will vocally say oh I don't like uncertainty but actually I realize it's actually something I thrive on yeah I think it's a Gemini in me just two two sides yeah so I think it's a lot of we I think as human beings we naturally

36:41Lauren Spearman:seek so much certainty we we love our routine I think it's such from a child we're put into routine like literally from a baby when you get fed when you get sleep so I think it's so much ingrained to us and i think there's a sadness because even just personally sadness of going i'd i want to be able to embrace uncertainty i had a theme last year it's embrace uncertainty with grace oh lovely versus with where's the next job coming from when's this what do i do and it's like and it's i think the more as human beings we can embrace that uncertainty i actually looping back to where we started i think our confidence would naturally be easier to access because we're not constantly seeking the known yes and we're not disappointed if the outcome isn't what we expect so I say this um a lot you know every year I do a vision board and I put this is what I want to get from it and it's not and I'm not disappointed if it doesn't happen because generally on the process of trying to make something happen other things have that I might not have even expected would come to life so yeah I think I think embracing that uncertainty and not being fixed to the outcome again it's really freeing it's really liberating you don't feel disappointed because actually other things may have happened on the way so do you goal set or do you find goals could actually be quite restrictive yeah i i set loose goals i have a bit of a vision but it's always yeah i spoke about this recently having like kind of silly big ideas and some of them a bit ridiculous some are a bit more structured but yeah so one of my goals for this year was to actually um look at my shift in revenue so how much money am i did i bring in last year and actually this year i want to shift the percentage of that more into the kind of content creation side of things so i do have you know set goals and give myself kpis but i'm not fixed to it and i think that's where i think that's where it means i enjoy it a little bit more i just kind of curious to see how i might get there and what i what i can do but yeah i'm i do set myself goals but um yeah they're not always the most practical some of them are a bit silly i think it's brilliant i'm getting this whole lovely vibe from you we've got a bit of like we know what we're doing but we're gonna have some fun and playfulness and again it comes back to like one of my values is fun like life is that here's here to be enjoyed there's um i need yoga class years ago there's this beautiful piece of music at the end and i went up to the yoga teacher i was like what is this and so it's called um bergs by mount wolf and it's he's um i want to say it's like he's not a psychologist i can't remember the word but he does a lot of beautiful spoken word he's a real motivational speaker and there's a bit where he's talking about you know living a life that's aligned with your values and um and there's a line in it where he said you want to get to the end of this life and it'd be something you recommend to others isn't that so oh it gives me like I don't know why it's making me well up I'll have to send you after this it's the most beautiful piece of music and whenever I'm having a wobble I listen to it and go no it's like it's okay and actually life is there to be experienced not to be like benchmarked against what everyone else is doing so yeah I think that's that's the song whenever I need a little lift to go actually yeah just enjoy life don't try to take it too seriously yeah and I love that one that was a good one go and do that life yes yeah yeah would I recommend that to others or yeah and I think it stops yeah it stops me from kind of excuse my French like cock blocking myself from things because it's like no actually you know in 40 years when I'm 80 odd I'd like to look back and go I'm glad I did that I'm glad I pushed myself and even if it didn't become what you thought yeah at least you can turn around and go do you know I gave it gave it a go yeah gave it a shot yeah so I had a founder this week say to me that they are so terrified in 10 years time that they're going to look back and go all I am is stressed burnt out yeah I've got some cash in the bank but I've got no friends left my kids are just pissed at me my relationship's falling down because all I did was work and the intention for why they're working is to provide to have that life and but actually that 10 years is gone and yeah and they're exhausted yes yeah and actually I think so many of us often regret the things we didn't do then the things we did so actually do the things just do it yeah yeah this whole nike thing isn't it just do it but i just i do know there's a lot of people listening who will go i know i know i hear you i hear you it makes sense but there's just still something in them that they can't is there any tiny little step or the first smallest thing that they could do to maybe just cross that line so i take these i'll talk specifically about sharing things online because i think actually that's the thing that i get spoken to a lot around confidence of showing up online and you'll have seen this like the rise of people sharing things on LinkedIn recently and LinkedIn has finally become more of a social platform and the advice that I give to people I think the fear that people feel is well someone might disagree or shut me down or I might be wrong and I think so much of it is you don't have to be the expert when you share something on LinkedIn you can share your experience you can share an opinion and and that's okay like you don't have to show up as this like thought leader that projects this wonderful um wonderful view and actually my most I can I guess the posts I've seen the most engagement or conversation with have just actually when I've been curious and asked questions so it's like I've observed this I've noticed this what are your thoughts so I think taking that pressure off yourself to be the expert in something or to have all the answers and actually comes back to what we're saying about being curious and engaging i think i feel like that's when i feel like um it's like an entry level step in yeah or actually commenting on other people's um posts and sharing your own opinion because what you'll see is nothing bad happens actually if you share an opinion that's great to see and i think we need more voices yeah we need you know we different voices diversity of thought it's so important thank you i could keep unpacking this for hours so interesting so much we just keep going we just have to do a bottle of rosé next time you're on um so what i'd love to know is with all your journey so far when you look back at younger lauren what advice would you give her i'd remind her of the advice that my mum gave me um she used to when i was having a wobble she'd hold my hands and she'd say my name is lauren spearman and there's no one else in the world better than me and that's not god um it's not because there's anyone worse than me or any but it's more that why not me so just go for it that's beautiful thank you so so much is there any other final words or anything you'd like to share um no i think you covered everything i think it was brilliant like i i had goosebumps finishing this i don't always get that i've welled up about three times but not fully cried no your makeup looks beautiful i just want to thank you so much and wish you all the success because the more your voice gets out there and more that it's just going to keep inspiring people to keep building their confidence showing up knowing that being the shyest person in the world you can still open those doors and make things happen for you absolutely thank you so much and thank you for everyone who's listening or watching and we'll see you next week if you've been enjoying the courageous leaders podcast we'd love it if you'd subscribe to our youtube channel your support helps us keep creating quality content and reaching more leaders like you who are ready to grow and make a real impact.

44:00Lauren Spearman:We fund this podcast ourselves so every subscription truly makes a difference and allows us to support courageous leaders like you. Thank you for being part of the journey.