Why Belonging, Representation, and Self-Belief Matter: Insights from Molly and Rosie Kmita

0:00My sisters Molly and Rosie Kamita are redefining leadership in sport and are on a mission to empower women and girls on and off the pitch. As former professional footballers and founders of the Powerhouse Project, they've gone from Forbes 30 Under 30 to collaborations with Nike and Google, creating real pathways for the next generation of female leaders in coaching, broadcasting and beyond. Sometimes, when you haven't been through things that wake you up, you can stay in it so long that you actually start to think, is this my life? We will work hard to make anything work and happen, But at the same time, there comes a point where you're like, right, OK, I've actually not got the energy I once had.

0:42We have not sat still 16 years. Absolutely nothing. Why? Rosie, Molly, welcome to the show. I'm so excited for this episode. Coming across your story and already just filled with so much courage. I don't know how we're going to do it in an hour, but we'll cover as much as we possibly can and get you back in, I think, for a part two. but to go like 19 years old setting up a girls football club to now running the powerhouse you know empowering the next generation of women it's just phenomenal what you've achieved so so far thank you for what you're doing but I also know recently you had the courage to come and share your story so people wonder because you launched your podcast so people could get to know you both a bit more and I'd love if it's okay with you just to take us back to that beginning of what has really shaped you into who you are today?

1:31Wow it's quite a broad question but I think that essentially we have been shaped by sport I would say that's where it started for us we are ex footballers that you know we're just genuinely obsessed with football growing up but in the landscape where football isn't what you see now for women's football so in a really male-dominated space where we were quite how would you put it we were definitely the minority in you know where we were what we were doing um and I think we have lived with that our whole lives of going wow how amazing would it be if we could build something within our lifetime that was exactly what we were needed when we what we needed sorry when we were little wow and I look at what we've managed to build now with the powerhouse project and I know that we'll get into all of that but I look at what we've built now and that infrastructure that exists is something that I know as two young girls you know playing on the streets in Enfield in North London would have loved because you know when you come from an area where the opportunity isn't there yeah unfortunately you've got to create something that means that you go and find those minority groups so that they have the opportunity that maybe people um that are in more privileged positions you know are already exposed to so I would say football shaped us sport has made us and now the infrastructure we built is just something that I wish we had 100 % I think I'd elaborate on that and also say that it's not until recently and probably to be honest with you since we've done our own podcast and as you mentioned earlier Jo spoke about our stories where I've realized our why is a lot deeper than what Molly's just mentioned as well like yes the why comes from being the minority on the football pitch but actually I think our why stems from the loss of our dad at 16 and understanding that without molly's support what would i have done in that moment i don't know still to this day i don't know what i would have done without the support of molly mainly but then also my amazing family that we have and you think of that moment where our lives changed drastically overnight when we lose our dads and you think what does a young girl do if she hasn't got a molly in great family what is that young girl doing in that moment because I think that in that moment in time you either crumble or you rebuild and that took us years to rebuild and kind of get over that trauma which I'm sure we'll go into in more depth but I think for us the why is for young girls out there who experience feeling alone or feeling like they don't know what their next move is yeah and us wanting to be there for them that's that's kind of what we're going after thank you for sharing that and the thing that's coming up for me is for these young girls to feel they belong because I think I'm guessing from you like I do I remember a story you shared there's something about skins and shirts and it's just like you're just part of the team and it was just normal but when when was that did you when did you feel like you belonged on the football pitch did you have that environment where you were welcomed and it was like normal for you to be on football did you realised quite early that no it is this we might not many girls are here why us I think we're lucky enough to grow up in a family culture where anything was possible if I'm completely honest I don't think we saw it from when when we were in our childhood and that shirts versus skin stories is so you know funny to us now because essentially for anyone listening that doesn't know there's a concept in football uh where you play out on the streets and you've either got you know t-shirts on or t-shirts off essentially and what me and Rosie didn't realize is actually as two young girls t-shirts off when you're you know 10 years old running around we felt like that's you know that's just normal well you know I'm on skins so you know that's how it goes and it weren't until our mum sort of found us running around the streets and she said I've got to have a conversation with these girls but I think that's you know that that story for me really um sort of summarizes how much we didn't feel that we were different at that time.

5:41We were, yeah, two young girls surrounded by boys, but we didn't see it like that. All we saw is that we loved football, and actually we were good at it, so the boys almost didn't see that either. It was like, okay, you can bring something here. You almost gain your respect because you're good. And then it weren't until we started to get older where you then realised, wow, we can't have a football team because there's no other girls that want to play. or you sort of get to a stage where you go, hang on, there's all of these academies and we didn't know about that. So we're almost like catching up to this ecosystem and infrastructure in women's football that was out there, but it was so secluded and so not what it is today that that opportunity almost feels like it's taken away from you because you're not aware that it's even out there in the first place.

6:30So I think for us, it was, yeah, it's so interesting because I look back at that now and I don't think we ever felt different. But I did feel like we missed out on some opportunity because of the lack of coverage, awareness and infrastructure that we're grateful now exists. And I suppose you started to see the limitations. It's like, hang on a minute, the limitations aren't there for the boys, but they are for us. What's really interesting, listening, you know, you're sharing about your dad and your family dynamic, the beauty, what I hear talking to you last time, was the support you both had and you said just go play football go and do anything's possible just believing that things would be okay but I also know in your family dynamic it wasn't always easy and it was tough are you happy to share some of those experiences that maybe have maybe built your resilience and also built that that connection you two have of in a way needing each other to survive what you saw and witnessed at children yeah so in terms of stuff that sort of I guess happened in the early stages as I mentioned earlier we come from you know a place in Enfield in North sorry a place in North London called Enfield where essentially we didn't grow up with much that's probably the easiest way to say it we didn't grow up with much and in a family of five where there's not much you sort of all have to just rally around each other and I think we felt that connection and the importance of support networks very early on in our childhoods um and then you know I would say in the beginning we actually grew up with quite a stable lovely life um and you know Rosie alluded to it earlier losing our dad through alcoholism at a young age was a horrible thing to witness when you see this man that has actually been a brilliant dad um sort of start to decline in his own mental health and at the time you're so young you don't really realize what's happening um but actually seeing this person go from someone that was stable loving supportive to turn into an alcoholic that you know was very distant from our family at times abusive to our mum um difficult to be around a lot of the time it is such a interesting and difficult dynamic to get your head around when it happens it feels like it happens almost overnight so I think the trauma of all of that growing up and witnessing sort of his death through alcoholism I think has changed us for life because you look back at that and you're so young that you almost want to shake him and go what are you doing you've got five kids you've got a beautiful partner in our mom you've got you know we've got it all sort of thing and you want to shake him and go dad stop but all you see is this person really struggling it's not until you get older where you go okay he had an addiction okay we had to be patient okay he was suffering with his own traumas and you know I look at maybe how that's played a part in who we are today especially together as twins going through that um there is no one that understands it like Rosie understands it and vice versa for both of us so I think it shows up in different ways but I would say the connection we have is so much deeper than even with our other brothers and sisters and they know that we can say that because you're the same people going through the same thing at the exact same time in your life yeah right um and it was difficult but I think that it the resilient side of things and how that's allowed us to carry on there are things that happen that I don't know how we got through that you know just witnessing what you witness seeing your your mum you know being attacked losing your family home because no one can afford to pay for it anymore like Like all of these things that happen, you're like, what are we going to do here?

10:40Yeah. But then you get through it. And I think this is why I feel grateful today to sit on this sofa and go, bloody hell, we've done all right. You know, like we've actually done all right. And I can actually speak with it, speak about it maybe with way less emotion now. But I would say that's because we have had to go there a number of times since launching our own podcast where we actually spoke about it for the first time ever in 31 years. we had never spoken about anything that had ever happened until that day it was very powerful to watch thank you yeah well done for getting through that by the way i still struggle and i think you know i'm so i'm glad thanks very much for picking that up but i think off the back of that i can talk about the positive side now which is great get molly to do all the hard work i'll do the hard bit um but yeah i think you know me and moll recently had this conversation actually on the walk and we were talking about when you've had things like that happen to you like molly highlighted seeing your mom getting beaten up losing your house at a crucial age of I think we were like 14 so you know you've got your own your mates know what's going on you're young enough to understand what's happening here but you have no control over the situation right I think that was the hardest thing we couldn't change our circumstances it was kind of the hands the cards we were dealt now I think about life now and I think it takes the pressure off us in a roundabout way okay because I wake up every day and I think if for example I lose a brand deal that's okay that brand deal weren't meant for me because it will never get worse than what it felt like when we were 14 and we were driving away from our house and we knew we couldn't go back there it will never feel worse than losing our dad at a young age and I think when you start thinking about things like that in life and you zoom out a little bit because you can get bogged down by You can get bogged down, especially in this society, especially in the world we live in, with the amount of followers you have, with what you're out there doing, the perception you're giving to the world.

12:37It's like you're always, you're led to believe you have to compete all the time. And don't get me wrong, I think the athletes in us do have that. Of course, you're never going to knock that. Yeah, that is human. And, you know, we were created by football and grew up in that environment of having to compete. I love that about us. but at the same time I think we've come to a point in our lives where we've got a little bit older and we thought right okay yes we're competitive yes we want to do well but at the same time let's keep things in perspective yeah not everything's gonna go well and when things don't go well it's not the end of the world because that's never gonna be worse than what we've experienced before and when I go into things now every conversation and I wake up every day of that mindset makes me feel so much better about life because it takes the pressure off our everyday movements really it's quite grounding isn't it yeah it is yeah it's like an anchor you go actually i can i've got that evidence back my evidence has told me that i can deal with that and any the way i can relate is i lost my dad suddenly when i was 18 like we went to the theater the night before we actually had no idea he was sick or anything was wrong it was such a shock it happened in in front of me it was all quite quite traumatic but it's so interesting what you take from that as you said it's like I've never been from that materialistic things clothes and things and don't mean much to me and I know some of my family especially my husband at times because like why doesn't that bother you or why didn't you get angry about that and I'm like yeah it doesn't matter you know what I mean it's like I've seen how short life can be I see how quickly change can happen in your life and you can lose everything so as you say like this stuff like I'll break a mug and I'm like getting up a mug but someone's like oh my god and it's like and I just think as you said that perspective of and what I so really wanted to meet you both because your resilience and your grit and your drive I've always had people say to me like where do you get your drive and your grit from and I do put it back to that again seeing how life is so precious and how quickly it can go and to want to the time you have do something with it 100 % does that resonate oh my god massively and you know it's like and I'm so sorry by the way I didn't know that you've been through that and I think things relate and hit you in different ways when you've been through similar experiences but I never thought I'd get to a point where I'd say I'm grateful that all of that stuff happened I never ever thought that I'd think oh you know I'm actually glad that's happened and you know what I am I'm so glad because now I feel like you can't touch me do you know what I mean like and and it is that it's that resilience that grit and that drive to go okay life's short um I don't want to wake up every day and hate what I do I don't want to wake up every day and dread you know going to that job and being around those people I don't want that and I think you know it's easy maybe to say this now in the position that I feel but it has taken us a long time to be to genuinely wake up in the morning I would say in the last couple of months seriously that's that's how recent it is I would say in the last couple of months because of the conscious decisions we've made to live like that to go life short yeah is this feeling right no make a decision move on is it like is there something kicking you now about this dynamic is this working for you no okay make a decision move on whereas I think sometimes when you haven't been through things that wake you up yeah you can stay in it so long yeah that you actually start to think is this my life yeah and then you start to blame yeah oh you get angry and you get angry then you blame and you know don't get me wrong we you know are still working through those emotions and we're not perfect and we're definitely we're definitely still getting there but I would say that um what we've all been through and what many people listening to this has have probably been through similar experiences it wakes you up and that's how I feel I feel I feel woken up to the fact that this doesn't last long so make it worth it just a quick reminder if you haven't already to please hit the like button and subscribe to the channel.

16:41It's a small action that makes a big difference. You'll be the first to know when new episodes drop and your support helps us create meaningful content for leaders like you. I'd also love to hear from you. So if you have any thoughts, questions or ideas, pop them into the comments. And if you're curious about how my leadership coaching or training could support you or your team, just drop me a DM and we'll set up a call. Thanks so much. Now let's get back to the episode. And I think, is it fair to say, I think I heard you, I think in the episode you both did is when it happens though, because anyone listened to this, there is that period where you run away.

17:17Oh yeah. You want to escape and you've got to go through your own grief and that times. It's not like you suddenly go, I'm going to solve the world. Life's short. I'm sorry. It's like just to allow people. It takes, as you said, it takes time. And even like in when I was in the corporate space for 20 years, I still did people pleasing, tried to avoid conflict, accommodated things, ran around. again is am i worthy enough because i lost my dad so i didn't get a degree or a levels because it was right at quite a crucial time so you know am i enough am i smart enough so you can still have all those normal human things but i think there's just there's a fire in you that just knows that you're going to be all right if you've gone through that and you've survived you're gonna you're gonna be okay yeah 100 and you're right i think we've skipped the journey here right like Like we're sitting here talking about how we feel in control now when we're not comparing and we're not competing.

18:08But bloody hell, I mean, we've spent 10 years plus of our lives doing that, by the way, trying to control things because we never had control when we were younger. So we felt need to the minute we had the opportunity to control. It's like, right, OK, I'm going to grab this and I'm going to make sure this is successful and no one's going to knock us down and all of that stuff. And then you get knocked and then you try and go through it again. and then it happens again like you know we'll go into it but before powerhouse we had another organization that we we ran and that didn't go to plan and didn't go well before that we had another organization that we ran that didn't go well so it's throughout all of these experiences you finally sit here now with a little bit of calm around it but i mean we've lived 15 years of our lives with pure chaos of internal conflicts demons like you we spoke about um earlier joe of these voices in your heads even whilst you're speaking at times saying you're not good enough no one's listening to you no one cares you're boring all of these things and i think it's only taken us now to really get to a moment where it's like why are you making your own life harder for you this is a question I keep having to ask myself now it's a good question yeah yeah I'm the only person being hard on myself no I don't know the answer yet I don't know the answer yet but I wouldn't speak to my friends or Molly the way I speak to myself I wouldn't so how crazy is that concept that I am the only one making this situation or this job or this environment harder for myself why are you doing that I think that comes from though like actually having this self belief right and confidence which we both have struggled with our whole lives and the problem is everyone looks at us and goes you're so confident you've got so much self-belief look what you and I'm going we are the opposite but you give an external perception and I think it's a bit of a defense mechanism I think it's a bit of a persona if I'm honest you know um people say all the time I you know what no this is what happened I went to therapy recently and she said to me um molly who are you when no one else is around like who are you and i'm like what like no one actually knows the answer to that question shortly like bro she's like can you be alone like are you actually good at being alone and i'm like no like i actually hate being alone and then you sort of start to really like delve into like how we've lived our lives and it has been full of people pleasing surrounding yourself just with noise if i'm honest because having to make your own decisions and being alone feels so uncomfortable and busy busy so we don't have to think yeah busy in ourselves we don't have to think about the repossession dad's death yeah money worries it's we've woke up since the day our dad died and kept ourself busy yeah like genuinely and I don't know if you went through the same but yeah sorry to jump in there yeah do you feel like you went through the same I worked I did a 72 hour shift once right I used to work and I put everything into my career I think when he went once I did I went a bit crazy for a bit cut all my hair off short dyed it blacked or nose pierced I went a little bit mad um but then I was like right I won't be a victim and I'm gonna live as if he's still proud so I live as if he's still here to make him proud so I was like so I'd like no a levels no degree and I was like I'm gonna get on the board before I'm 30 and I just went all into my career to prove that you could get on there as a woman I could get on there 30 and I could get on there without any qualifications so I just work actually protected me it gave me a focus it gave me a purpose and I became really good at it but it did get to a point in my life I was like this is now starting to cost me because again who am I without my work right and that's yeah yeah that's the bit again if you can separate and I coach a lot of leaders now to go, if you lost your job, who are you?

22:09And it scares the life out of me, them. And you go, you've got to be careful with your identity. So I had to do a bit of work to actually separate. And you can creep back in, but, you know, just to kind of let it go. Definitely. And do you know what? That's a conversation I think has not had enough with athletes and sports people as well, because we went through that. Our identity when we were playing football. We were Molly and Rosie, the footballers, since we were 10 years old. Yeah. And then all of a sudden we wake up and we transition into broadcasting, presenting and things like that, which was amazing.

22:42But we went through a solid two years of not really understanding who we were away from football. And really trying to navigate these careers and not really knowing what rooms to go in, who we are anymore, what conversations we have. You lose that community, by the way, which isn't spoken about enough. We're used to waking up every day, being surrounded by 20 other girls in the changing room, training. and eating together etc clear structure clear structure routine exactly routine routine routine we wake up we make the decision which was the right decision for us to transition because we wanted to be conscious about our own careers which was brilliant and it's worked out well but that two years was very very very difficult for me and Malta Navigate we lost uh well everything you lose the community the structure and once again I think that's another case study as to why it's a full circle moment for us with the organization we're running now because we know exactly how it looks and feels to be those young girls that were lost without that structure without that community and without that pathway and i think that's why once again it comes back and it's only in through talking you're like okay this really makes sense as to why we've got a full-fledged organization doing this stuff now for for other women but um yeah that was a horrible time for us definitely and it leads me to actually because I just trust what questions come up now so I've got really curious in kind of in terms of that two-year identity in terms of the identity of twins you know Molly and Rosie the footballers then you set up your football club but then you've now what you're on your third business together what is that what have you started to learn about yourself as twins and actually your identity as individuals well honestly that one that is the million dollar question glad we're sitting apart yeah I know um it's the million dollar question because no one speaks about how you merge right how as twins it as twins you are a unit from day one right you are the twins you know to this day if I'm by myself I still say we us I speak as if there is someone else with me and it's so interesting because I have to pull myself on that sometimes and be conscious that actually I am one person and I would say you know we're 31 now but you sort of get to a point where I'm going now is the time to do that work of individuality a little bit of separation to understand who is Rosie who is Molly because I think for so long we have just been tarnished with the same brush I don't know if that's the right way to say that it's not a negative thing but it's almost like the twins has become the brand which you know is great and I'm so grateful that we have are so similar that all of our interests are the same you know we've been able to build businesses because essentially we like to do the same things but I look at it and I go god sometimes I don't know what I want to do yeah or what you like because I remember you saying do I like that just because you like that yeah like there's a I'm scared of pigeons because she's scared of pigeons yeah we've both got the bird phobia which Which is so interesting.

25:49That is like a prime example of like, is that learnt behaviour? But no one speaks about when you work with a sibling, not just any sibling, a twin, if you do anything, you know, that means that pretty much you're the same person. No one speaks about that identity crisis that you actually go through. So you go through an identity crisis when you leave your sport that you've always done. And now I would say we're going through it again of going, okay. we're 30 now Rose we're going into our 30s like maybe it's time to 31 well 31 but you know we're in our 30s and it's like that time in your life where you start to go right I need to figure this bit out now um because it's it is hard it's hard sometimes and I think we being open we we we have struggled with it yeah massively a bit okay and then in in that same conversation as well no one talks about like I I can guarantee well I can't guarantee but I don't because I don't know how it feels to not have a twin but I feel very lonely when I'm by myself okay like it's intense loneliness and I don't know where that comes from but I can only assume it comes from the fact that I've been used to having Molly there yeah my whole life so then when I am sitting at mine by myself I can only I think I don't know if this is a fact but I feel it intensely it's like I don't know what to do with myself I I actually at moments have made two cups of tea out of where Molly's Molly's not even there yeah what a waste yeah yeah sorry sorry for the planet but um yeah I've I've I've done that and I think I that's something that I really want to start working on now and getting used to like going through that lonely period like it's okay to have those moments I think that's where we grow and it is uncomfortable for me but I think I need to lean in a little bit more just get curious about it yeah because within the business I'm just jumping a little bit to the business here have you are you both doing the same roles have you divided out the roles yet and roles and responsibilities you're both giving me a really funny smile that's the sake of a no smile oh it's difficult that one because there's similar skill set yeah right so that's where it's difficult to separate out because I actually think you know our weaknesses are very similar and our strengths are quite similar so you know having someone in you know having multiple people in the business who are organized structured and live by the calendars and the admin while we need that and we have that so that's not we have that not the strength we are a bit creative and I would say creative in a nice way but we drive we drive them crazy at team because you know they know you know and there's what Rosa in particular who really is the glue of us because essentially you have this person that works with you every day to make sure that you turn up on time and you make sure you're there so Rosa is to thank that we're sitting on this sofa today actually um but essentially when that when that isn't a skill set that you have it's really difficult so and that's where I think we've probably struggled to differentiate roles and responsibilities because the skill sets are similar but I still think that there is work to do you can definitely do it we need to do it yeah so what I'm really really interested in is your two previous businesses like you've gone in with other people what made you do that was that to feel what you thought were some of your weaknesses versus just doing it on your own going for it I wish that was the case I'm sorry I'm gonna answer this one but pure lack of confidence okay pure lack of confidence never in our wildest dreams or never when me and mo were younger believed deep down that we were capable of running an organization as as two young women just it never occurred to us so that lack of confidence and that lack of self-belief actually on reflection it we made bad decisions off the back of that purely because we felt like we needed that support and it's only now we sit here and realize that was it stemmed from from that lack of confidence and that lack of self-worth because it came back down to us really feeling as if like well we don't deserve to run our own organization and run our own schedules and you know I think there's also like a bit of people pleasing in there okay I think there's a lot of that of yeah of people coming to us and saying I can do I bring something here's what I can bring and almost being too scared or again probably not believing that we could to saying oh actually that sounds good yeah okay and trusting and being quite naive if I'm completely honest I think we have been very naive too trusting um in a lot of the business relationships that we have had because we go in with pure intentions but not everyone does and I think that's been the harsh wake-up call that we're realizing in business like this is not this is business now and I think we're used to being in teams where everyone works together and this is the end goal yeah and actually we're having a harsh wake-up call to go listen there's an opportunity but people see this as us as an opportunity and we get that that's that's fine but let's let's remember that we don't need anyone else if anyone else comes to the table from now they better be a you know there better be a very high benchmark there is there is like a level and a criteria now that I don't think we've ever had either the confidence but also the headspace right yeah headspace is a big thing we have always had lots going on and I think operated from a place of fear in our decision making but also um a space or from a place of time like we it always feels like we've been almost running our businesses on erratic decisions because the headspace hasn't been there because we're always trying to make something work and I think what we've done in the last year in particular as we strip back we've gone we don't have to do everything we don't have to go to everything and I think we spent the first 10 years of our career especially in the media world of saying yes to everything and I think you should I think there is definitely a time in the beginning of your careers yeah yeah you got him yes to that do that for free go and learn about that like yes yes yes be curious 100 but you also need to get to a point where you're strategic and I think that's the transition we're going through now of going we've built the brand we've got the platform now how are we going to use it in the right way from a strategic point of view instead of just being busy for the sake of being busy because we feel guilty when we're not working that yeah is essentially how I think we've been operating that is so insightful previously yeah number one just even hearing you talk is so I can see the empowerment shift in you and how you're talking about it but when you talking a little bit about the guilt because I was literally just coaching someone yesterday on this guilt is if they suddenly have an hour or two where they've got nothing to do the guilt where do you think that guilt comes from for you I think the guilt comes from as Molly said earlier the fear of losing it all like I genuinely still and I have to really work on myself and and get train myself out of this but I still wake up and think one day I'm going to wake up and it's all going to be gone and I think the guilt kicks in where I'm sitting there and I have got an hour or two and when I'm not working I'm thinking if I don't work in these one or two hours someone else is gonna be working harder or I'm gonna lose that so we just gotta keep going and then all of a sudden I'm burnt out I'm not articulating myself properly I can't socialize I need a minute and that's come down to the fact of I've worked myself to the ground because that guilt kept keeps kicking in and once again i think it's leaning into now the stage that we're at is like that uncomfortable feeling the uncomfortable feeling of being alone the uncomfortable feeling of sitting still and just being we have not sat still for 16 years actually nothing no no do you know what i mean obviously it's a joke we have you know it's been go go go but it has yeah and you know what why?

34:27You know what I mean? And I know there were reasons in the past that we felt like that. And as Molly said, there are times in your life where you 100 % have to. I believe that. I believe we won't be sitting here right now without those moments. Don't work hard. Yeah, we are grafters. If it's one thing me and Mo are, we are grafters and we will work hard to make anything work and happen. And you have to have that, only. but at the same time there comes a point where you're like right okay I've actually not got the energy I once had I actually feel that actually yeah welcome to your 40s

35:07it does get harder it becomes frustrating though yeah she can't do as much but more because you're sitting there going I've worked I've worked my ass off to go and have that holiday and the whole time I'm on holiday I'm uptight I'm not present and you and I've been on so many holidays where I sit there and I'm so annoyed at myself because I get back and I go why have I why have I done that yeah and I think you get to a point where you have to make some serious change so that you don't spend your life looking back at these amazing moments that you could only dream of growing up and again it's that grounding exercise sometimes that you've got to do of going wow at one point you probably thought you'd never leave venfield now you're on a yeah now you're on a plane like that i know that sounds so ridiculous but i promise you that was out of touch for us at one point i remember yeah you know going on a first we didn't have holidays growing up yeah you know i mean we didn't go on holiday that weren't a thing so i remember like i have you know friends and that they'd be like oh six week holiday i go away and stuff and i'll be like oh cool and then we're down play scheme yeah yeah yeah definitely down the park or something but you know fine that's what we knew that's all we so silly things like now being able to go on holiday well take a holiday and still not enjoying it you want to shake yourself go what are you doing yeah what are you doing and that's the frustrating bit and i think so many people listening to this will be able to relate because i don't know why and i don't know if it's society if it's always been like this or if it's just more now because we've got social media everyone can see what you're doing and this need to kind of you want to feel enough you want to feel like you belong you want to feel like you're worthy you want I feel like you're achieving something because we put such a high thing on achievement like what are you doing how well you've done and the comparison um and I get it as well it's like my husband and I were just having a conversation this morning he's like you do know you don't need to work this hard anymore but you know something's again your identity I was nicknamed a grafter I started work for my dad when I was 12 so I was always the grafter so my brother was the smart one I was the grafter that's how we were differentiated and it suddenly is he say so much of your identity and I think my energy it came from I needed something to prove trying to prove I could do it it's so interesting become a human doer it is suddenly strange to go I can be a human being and I can say no to that and it's okay and money will be okay and by saying to my husband I get the logic he will go look you've got a pension you've got this and I'm like I get the logic but emotionally it hasn't quite caught up yet so I don't know because it's like if you see your life you see what you're sitting on now you know the business is fantastic the people that are wanting to support you so the logic's there you can see how well you're doing isn't it mad the emotions and everything that drives us to kind of gotta get going yeah it is and and it's it gets to a point where it's actually sad yeah because you know we we spoke earlier all of us about knowing life short yeah so then it's that balance between i'm going to do something amazing with the short time that we're here or long time touchwood yeah but also enjoying it and and i think that's that's the thing that i really you know and we're not sitting here as finished products by the way you know and i think sometimes you sort of sit on podcasts and stuff and and you almost think that the people you're watching have got it all figured out we have not we are far from it we don't think anyone has no one has no no that's the thing it's remembering that yeah exactly exactly right okay and I think getting away from this urgency thing I struggle with that a lot everything feels urgent to me yeah and I'm like stop operating like that because then you become just almost a bit of a control freak it doesn't matter if you've got people work for you you're still trying to be across it all yeah and it's like that is the bit for me that is like the next step of going be comfortable with the peace stop like this urgency this feeling in your nervous system of constantly being heightened like let's work on that because that is not something I want to keep living with um so yeah I can imagine a lot of people go through that and it's it's hard therefore what I've um tried to help myself I'm trying to think of the listeners and like how we could because we're definitely not finished products products but I think one thing um we've both tried to implement is because we feel like we do need to be achieving something what I've tried to do is flip it on his head a little bit and think right okay I need that sense of achievement yes I do but I've tried to remove just my work life from that sense of achievement so what I've tried to do now is say right okay yes I need to achieve something every day but that might be achieving something socially so rebuilding a friendship or a connection that I've lost touch with but they mean a lot to me so I want to rebuild that it might be me physically doing something hard which I have to do every day to be honest to keep my head sane I don't need to do that every morning and Molly knows when I have not done that I could tell when she's not been to the gym I tell y 'all that yeah it's a thing different person yeah yeah and I am I'm working on that but it's very hard for me if I if I've not trained or done something physical in the morning I'm very very foggy very very messy um so that's something that that that achievement of every day I have to tick off quite quite you know well but that so that's what I've done so um the night before I will write a list of intentions or things that I'm trying to achieve the next day and that used to be before we were starting to have these conversations and therapists and all of that stuff used to be just a list full of work stuff yeah but now I'm trying to find more and more of a balance of like right okay that can And B, things that I need to do for myself.

40:46The life admin that I've been putting off, by the way. Why do we put off life admin? I hate life admin. I know. It's crazy. I'm really bad at it as well. Yeah, I'm really bad at it. I find terrible life admin. Awful. Awful. So like little life admin bits that I've been, by the way, niggling in my head and I need to get done, but just don't do it. All of those little things where a little brain dump before bed really helps my mind. So little brain dump and then like, yeah, just trying to nurture nurture other areas of my life because like we said earlier like the graft is in us want to be achieving and succeeding in work but actually there's so many other pillars and elements to our life like family relationships like we neglect so many yeah um pillars and it's like no like i want to be real i want to be whole now and i want to be well-rounded and i think for the first time in our lives we felt like we want to feel that way now and a little bit more fulfilled yeah i think that's the ultimate goal isn't it to feel fulfilled in what you're doing and as you said it doesn't fulfillment doesn't just have to come from work no it can come from so many places just a quick reminder if you haven't already to please hit the like button and subscribe to the channel it's a small action that makes a big difference you'll be the first to know when new episodes drop and your support helps us create meaningful content for leaders like you.

42:09I'd also love to hear from you so if you have any thoughts, questions or ideas pop them into the comments and if you're curious about how my leadership coaching or training could support you or your team just drop me a DM and we'll set up a call. Thanks so much, now let's get back to the episode. I do want to go on to the Powerhouse Project. Yes. Tell us all about it. Go. Yes, all right, Three, two, one, go. So the Powerhouse Project is essentially an organisation that has been built to create better infrastructure and pathways for young women, right? So we're starting in sport and we have started honing in in football because essentially that's where we started.

42:51So we're five years old, which feels crazy. That's a long time, isn't it? It is. It is long. Yeah, we're still a little baby, but to get it to five years is a really big achievement for us. And, you know, the last five years has been amazing to see where it started. And the journey really did start in female coaching. So as players, we only had one female coach in our whole careers. And then when we started to really understand the under-representation from a female coaching perspective compared to male coaches in the game of football, it was like, whoa, that is first of all shocking, but also very sad because what we're seeing now is almost a blocker for young girls to see themselves in those positions.

43:35So the women's game's growing. We need to make sure that the infrastructure and pathways also grow alongside, you know, this movement that we're all living a part of now, which is brilliant to see. But not everyone, and, you know, we always say this, not everyone's going to be a lioness. And what those girls have been able to do for women's football in this country is beautiful, beautiful. But we have to make sure that all of the roles and areas around that also have its own pathway that exists um so for us I really started there in female coaching and then you realize wow this is a global issue so we've all started in the UK um and now we've got hubs working in Ghana Egypt Barcelona because this is a global issue for female representation from a coaching point of view so for us our work and our mission is to make sure that we can scale as far and wide so that the infrastructures that have nothing actually can see an opportunity for themselves so coaching's like great let's keep doing that it's our baby we're going to keep growing that side of the organization and then it was like looking at other areas and industries and going where else is the male domination really impacted you know this generation in terms of their own role models and I think role models is key to everything that we do the powerhouse project is about creating more role models so how can we create more role models in spaces where they're not normally seen coaching we're doing the work great um behind these cameras now you know for us media industries broadcasting content creation journalism can we do some impact there as well so we've run some amazing programs with the likes of google um previously but essentially building similar pathways for young girls to get into the media industry as well and then next for us is business which is really important to now start having these conversations with amazing women like yourself to go wow educate us tell us like there's also lots of you know underrepresentation in the corporate world and the business space and those feelings transferable feelings of feeling alone feeling isolated always a minority group not listened to undervalued like these are global issues for women not just in the sports industry but you know just across the board so we really want the powerhouse project to continue to grow in building tangible pathways but also programs that create development and education because opportunities are great but you've got to be ready for that opportunity so that's where the education comes in i could speak about this all day but you need to so it's just a small little vision but yeah essentially how can we create more role models in spaces where typically women have not belonged but then how can we work with some of the biggest brands in the world to create and execute programs that educate and develop those young women to get into those spaces so when the opportunity comes up I'm so confident because I've done my program I'm I believe in myself because I've got the support network and now I've got a community of like-minded women around me so I'm no longer the minority that's the bit for us that's your thing yeah and there's such a truth in that because I saw so many opportunities did open up for people but as you said they'd had no training just like oh we need and it sounds really bad but it's a tick box we need to increase our dni okay we'll just hire but no one then they didn't stay because they the infrastructure wasn't there they didn't know how to so in terms of your actually this education piece it's massive yeah I would like to know from your experiences because obviously in the corporate space for me I found myself many times being the only woman in the room especially when getting to board level you're only woman for you in in this space of what you're trying to build and you're creating something in that's still quite a male-dominated environment and you said something really key there just like to be listened to what's been your kind of personal experience of trying to get listened to god how long we got i i think look there's a there's a few case studies of our own personal experience and you know ultimately me and molly have been in many many rooms especially in the business side of our lives where it's like we feel as if we're banging our heads against the brick wall you know there's been conversations come up around what we should do for women within the infrastructures and which we're working with we're the only women in the room who can speak from personal experience and it's like you're still trying to sell that to people and we ultimately got sick of feeling like we had to keep trying to sell people in to why it was so important to cater to women like we shouldn't have to sell that in you should ultimately understand the reason why we're trying to build what we're trying to build and I think we kind of just got to the point in our own lives where we felt so suppressed and it got to the point in rooms where we stopped talking because it got it we just like we're not being listened to we're not being seen um we're not we're not heard so ultimately I'm going to save my energy here and just not say anything and actually that's not a good way to live because in turn we also felt like we were suppressing our our vision and our you know ways of living and what we wanted to do in the world so I think there were so many times where in the boardrooms that we felt that in our own experiences and then from a real tangible um experience what I will say is our media careers right I'll give this as an example me and Mo when we turned presenters so footballers into presenters we were chucked onto live tv the red light was on wow and you make mistakes right of course there were many times me and Mo in our early careers not not anymore we still make mistakes but like on live tv you know you you kind of you understand the skill set now and you can you can go about it and do a very good job but back in the day you know five six years ago when me and mo were first doing live tv or tv in general there was a lot of mistakes that we made on the job now the reasoning behind the programs itself with powerhouse is you have to create an environment for young girls and women to be able to make mistakes and then not be this huge pressure and judgment misogyny yeah or backlash right like allow people to grow and make mistakes we weren't given that opportunity okay and I think it done us the world of good because we just had to adapt and grow quickly but ultimately if I didn't have Molly or if Molly didn't have me in those moments where we did make the mistake to say I know you're upset now I know we're kicking ourselves now but we've got to go again next week we've got to go again next we've got to pick ourselves up again and go if you don't have that in your ear and you don't have that support system you don't have that network having those conversations with you you don't ever go back on live tv well you just drop out and the point is retention yeah so it's like you know for all of these women when confidence is not the answer is not to run away and i think the point is can you build programs that mean that over this period of time you're going to go from thinking I want to be in that industry to knowing you can be but then also having the skill set to go and thrive once you're in it so equipping yourself to be able to coping strategies that's it self-esteem's high and things like that so will the powerhouse you've got the programs and stuff well is it a community as well that you could feel like you can belong in so if that say happens to someone they can be like ah my god exactly need your friends exactly we see it all the time now it's a beautiful thing five years on because now you have you know email coaches that have been on you know cohort one and then cohort four and they all meet up on the qualification that they're about to do together and they're no longer the only woman in the room because there's multiple people from the powerhouse project that has also managed to get on the same qualification and it's moments like that where you go this is working this is working and then you know having the community where you can constantly see that dialogue of is anyone else going to this thing tonight yeah I'm going to that thing I'll meet you there yeah so seeing the community grow I think has been the most special part of the organization because it was way more powerful than what it ever intended to be it was supposed to be yep let's create some programs that are centered around education so that confidence is built through those educational programs but actually the community has been the bit that has surprised me the most of going whoa hang on there's a huge community in the UK now there's a global community so these programs and all of these women that we're now allowing to you know creating better opportunities for them to go and thrive in their own careers you look back and I go wow imagine in 10 years you know that's exciting Very exciting.

52:23That's exciting. And sitting on the sofa today, so if I say to you, wow, you two are leaders of an incredible organisation. How does that feel to hear that? Your face was funny. You're like, oh. No, I believe that. Yeah, now I feel like, yeah. You can see it. You can own that identity. We are leaders. Yeah, because I also feel like we deserve to be in these positions and I know we're right we're we're the right people to do this because we know how it feels and we also know that we're gonna always put those girls first and we're always like that is the intention we know the intention is pure and again you know the reason why we will remain as a two on this and it will be a very high criteria if anyone else wants to get involved now because I now believe after all these years that yeah we can do this we can do this and I'm not just saying that I genuinely believe that now and it's taken a long time how does that feel inside just saying that because that is just beautiful to hear you beautiful beautiful it feels mad saying that for the first time on on your pod but I think essentially like it is nice to just say that yeah and like own it a little bit like okay yeah yeah like this feels right this feels right and it's still a process we're still growing learning you know you'll have setbacks it's normal yeah yeah but that's all right yeah that's all right and i think when you get to a point where you think no matter what this is going to be fine and no matter what even if it all ended tomorrow look what we've done in the last five years that's that's the bit you get to when you go still made impacts still help loathe hundreds made a difference hundreds thousands still have done that so once you've done it no one can take it away from you and I think that's a comfort and feeling as well definitely going back to something you said it's like once you've done it no one to take it away from you have you got some security in knowing what you have done because I know there's that fear of it could all go but does that last five years give you that sort of wow or is there still kind of that nerves of it could go tomorrow I think like you know as we've said constantly we're really not the finished product I think I'm those emotions and those conversations and that narrative's still going to creep in every now and then I think that just takes a lot of work doesn't it to to get those demons like but back in a way but um I would like to think when I'm in a like positive headspace and I'm you know I'm having more positive conversations internally then yeah of course like no one can take away the fact that we go to football games now and we see our coaches on the sidelines working like no one can take that away no one can take away from the fact that you know when we were doing the grassroots club back when we were 19 some of them girls are still playing football to this day no one can take that away from us and I think it's you know those little moments where you have to remind yourself actually forget the material stuff and forget finance and everything like that from a pure impact perspective we have done so bloody much in this world already and I'm really excited about how much we can continue to to help women feel like they bloody deserve it and that you it's no bigger mission than that is there it's lovely it's no greater feeling and it's so lovely you turn around and say we just you deserve what you're doing and if you think of like younger versions of you imagine if they were here like just looking at you now going wow you know yeah hopefully she's got your top on

56:04god knows that because i gave i've got goosebumps even saying that because i know thank you i think we both got teary at that yeah it's crazy isn't it he's amazing you think of your younger version just going wow thank you for like for what you thought you've both done and it does feel like it's still so the beginning of what is just so possible for you both it's very very exciting and what's so special and I'm so pleased our paths have crossed what's so special talking with you is your openness and so inspiring listening to people that go look we're doing well we're making impact we're growing a business but hey look this is all here as well we have the people pleasing we have the thing I know on the call we spoke about you know avoiding conflict because of what you went through and the challenge that's given you but it seems like there's this constant thing okay we've recognized this okay let's go and get some therapy let's talk let's connect let's ask for help how do we then keep moving through I think it's such a lovely thing in life is I always go it's not it's not the resources we have it's how resourceful we are and what I see in front of me is two incredibly resourceful women who's making a big impact on the world I just want to thank you for that I think it's awesome thank you big question for you you can pick who wants to go first but i would love to know what would your future self you can go as far as into the future one a year five years 20 years wherever you want what advice would your future self give you today the advice would be um to genuinely know that you deserve this genuinely like you've worked your ass off girl do you know what i mean like you've done it all right and no one can take away your work ethic your intention and for me it would just be to say like you deserve this and enjoy it enjoy your life because you created something beautiful and it didn't start off easy it'll be that really beautiful thank you what advice would your future self give you stop worrying stop worrying like I think that is my default and I know I'm gonna continue to work on that and I hope one day I can sit back here with you and we or we can meet for a coffee and I can say oh Jo do you know I don't wake up and worry anymore yeah so I think for me if I could speak to you know my older self could speak to me now I think she'd be saying Rose it's all gonna work out yeah stop it yeah and just enjoy it because you should be proud of yourself and what you've done instead of constantly worrying and living in fear like let's let's get rid of that now and then and like molly said enjoy what you've built and live more abundantly you know so yeah that's your your next thing to work through exactly that's that exactly that that's the mission i would say just to see you right now i think it's just to normalize that for you i think with what you've both experienced i did a profile personal myself I came out as a 90 % worrier I was like oh wow and it's quite interesting when I look back I'm like well where has that come from and I think sometimes when we experience loss quite traumatically as well that that natural worry of like my imagination is crazy I see stuff like I'll just be in the car and I'll see like accidents happening in front of me it's not it's just my imagination I was like the worry what's quite interesting um I'm doing lots of Dr.

59:24Joe Dispensers work at the moment and is that thing do you do do you know I love him yeah yeah it's brilliant so I'm doing a lot of that thing when you wake up in the morning and I don't go oh my god the day oh my god I'm tired I'm like no today's gonna be amazing like today I was already like this episode is gonna be gonna rock because I'd already told my head that it was gonna be amazing but that whole thing of manage consciously managing your thoughts coming off autopilot I think you shared some tips earlier this would be the tip I'd share at the moment is I think we're living too much on autopilot which is creating a lot of this worry and the more we can go conscious and manage our thoughts and the more you go actually I do deserve this we can slow down we can take a day off we we're going to be okay I think it's something I think we could all do with a bit more definitely any message to corporates you want to give out for young women honestly if you're on a corporate person or working at a corporate organization or whatever just that industry if you're interested in making serious impact in the world of women's sport and you genuinely want to create something that means that you are changing young girls lives yeah then get in touch with us at the powerhouse project because we're really in a position now where we are consciously seeking some amazing partners brilliant um so i'm sure there are lots of amazing people that actually want to do something yeah with us and so yeah we're open to that so get in touch they want to get involved they want to help or maybe get you in to speak and share share your story just to inspire young girls of what's important well young girls all women yes There's a lot of women my age sitting on boards at the moment could do with listening to what you've got to say as well.

1:00:58Amazing, yeah. And I think actually that's been the shift from a presenting and hosting perspective. Me and Molly really feel like we're in the position now to talk on the work we've done. So yeah, that would be amazing to speak more to corporates and have that convo. Get you on stage. I think your story is so powerful and I know we've only been able to touch a segment of it so we'll get you back to do more because I'm really, really keen to follow your journey and see what you achieve because I know it's going to be fantastic while you also take rest and look after yourself as well. So thank you so much.

1:01:29And thank you to everyone who's listening or watching. I know there's going to be so many notes taken from this episode. And if you've got any questions or comments, please put them in. Or if you say, if you want to reach out to Molly and Rosie, they'd be happy to hear from you. Take care. If you've been enjoying the Courageous Leaders podcast, we'd love it if you'd subscribe to our YouTube channel. Your support helps us keep creating quality content and reaching more leaders like you who are ready to grow and make a real impact. We fund this podcast ourselves so every subscription truly makes a difference and allows us to support courageous leaders like you.

1:02:03Thank you for being part of the journey.