How to build your own money playbook (with a little help from AI)

0:00Madi Stefanis: As long as you work for it, you can achieve anything you want or make any amount of money you want. A true word never been spoken. And I think that as women, we're often discredited for the work that we do. What do you think are some of the clashes that come with someone who is managing money from a 9-to-5 job versus running their own business? My wardrobe is often a point of contention with my friends. Right, okay, right. This is a reoccurring topic. So basically I adopt the concept of if you can't afford it twice, don't buy it at all. Say I purchase a handbag, I have to invest the same amount of money.

0:29Shit, that's intense.

0:30Madi Stefanis: Even if it was literally putting$100 into the stock market, anything was always better than nothing. That's so amazing. My first word was label. No way. Don't live in ignorance of your bank account. I'm sure there's people listening that would be like, you absolute idiot. This episode of IOU, Some Money Education, is proudly brought to you by the Bank of New Zealand. When you're just starting out, managing your money should feel easy so that you can focus on winning at whatever you're doing. Whether you're flatting, saving to travel, or making a career move, they have all the tools to help you master your money from the get-go.

1:01Thanks so much to the Bank of New Zealand for making IOU, some money education, possible. Don't forget to check out IOU, The Practical Lessons, to put what you're learning into practice. Find the details in the podcast show notes. In this episode with our amazing guest, Maddy Stefanos, we talk about AI and how she uses it quite a lot for understanding her money, making financial decisions, but we wanted to put a really important caveat at the top of this episode. Should we be giving AI access to our financial records? According to a cybersecurity expert, Caitlin Serian, the short answer is no.

1:34Tech is moving so, so fast right now and every platform is racing to be the next big thing. And even big companies behind them don't have full control yet. So a good rule is to treat anything that you put into AI as if it could end up public. If that makes you feel uncomfortable, strip out identifying details first, like account numbers, address, client names. AI can be so useful for getting on top of your money. It just should not have the keys to everything. As always, please keep in mind that this episode is general information. Do not use this as personal financial advice. Okay, let's get into it.

2:11Do you know what is incredibly exciting, Maddie? We often have to do remote recordings. And the first one we did with you, you were in New York. I was. And now you're here. In person. She's flown here specifically for this interview and nothing else. She's not been on holiday all through Europe. What do you mean?

2:27Madi Stefanis: I would get on a plane for you. How was your trip? It was amazing. It was really nice. I actually quite enjoyed. So I traveled fall of September and typically I've only ever been in Europe in June, which is peak period. It's always crazy busy. September was actually really nice. It is such a hack because not only is it not boiling, but it's not crowded. No. and also you make the most of off-season prices. It's a little bit cheaper, not by March, but... I honestly love a September holiday. I just did the same thing. And I feel like as long as you take a break across sort of June, July, August, even if it's just a long weekend, and then save your proper holiday for September in Europe, that is doable.

3:07I agree. I did a quick four-day trip in July, and I feel like that broke up my year really well.

3:12Madi Stefanis: Were you working across that time, or did you actually take time off? No, I was working. It was actually terrible timing on my part because our new camcorder has just launched. So I've been online my entire trip. Oh, God. I think London has actually been the most difficult time zone because I'm working until 1, 2 a.m. every night. Is that because a lot of the consumers are from Australia? Yeah. So our camera went live at 9 a.m. Australian time, which is midnight in London. How did the launch go? Good. Really good. We are expected to sell out within the next 24 hours, which is really exciting. So it launched about two days ago.

3:46Madi Stefanis: That is insane. Were you expecting it to sell out that quickly? I really didn't know. We had a waitlist of 20 ,000 people, but because... How long had you been doing that waitlist for? Probably about four months. That is so impressive. It was a long Legion campaign, and we did that very intentionally, but because it is a higher RRP than anything we've ever launched before, I didn't know how it was going to convert. I mean, I just think it's such a genius idea. I can't wait to get one. I desperately want to run for my holiday. unfortunately left it well no I didn't leave it too late you try I think I tried and it wasn't quite launched yet but actually for anyone that has no idea what we're talking about we did a first episode with Maddie and we spoke all about her business that she started at 19 and how many total cameras have you sold now like do you know how many total units I think around 150 ,000 insane so yeah what started is like a side hustle kind of just trying to figure it out selling second cameras turned into a multi-million dollar business and it is a really interesting journey and the way that you spoke about how it grew is really inspiring for anyone that is thinking about or has had any kind of pipe dream about maybe one day doing their own thing definitely listen and I think the reason I would say listen to this episode because you started it so young and you didn't have any experience in business you didn't have any startup capital other than what you had your bank account, it's relatable for anyone that feels like, how would I ever get going or start something?

5:12So go back and listen. We'll link that in the podcast show notes. But what is the bank account for you personally looking like right now? Are you in the red? Are you in the green? Has it been a good or a bad month for you? Never. Not in a million years. Absolutely not. In the red. Green with envy. Or green.

5:30Madi Stefanis: I'm actually in the green as of yesterday. I just got paid for a brand partnership. Amazing. Which is always nice because they often have 30, 60 or 90 day payment terms. So it feels quite good when that hits the bank account. This is almost like another revenue stream you have with your personal brand. Yes, correct. So it was from a TikTok partnership. So you have actually two like quite massive revenue streams. One is your personal brand and then one is the business revenue. So you pay the salary through that. Correct. And I quite like having my personal brand as a revenue stream. It's almost a really fun one for me.

6:00Madi Stefanis: I've been with management before who kind of look after that for me. I've also represented myself independently. And I think it's the entrepreneur in me that I actually get quite a thrill out of pitching myself to brands and kind of trying to win brand partnerships. I so understand that. It's almost like a sick twister. It's quite fun. I love it. Yeah. I so know what you mean. Maybe I should look at building out my personal brand more. It'd be such a fun thing to do to have extra money on top of a salary. Do you use that? Actually, let's not get there. We're going to get there very shortly because that's exactly what this conversation is about, is about how you approach your personal finances, your investing strategy.

6:34So we'll speak about that for sure. I'm going to quickly say, I'm in the green too, actually. Good. And do you know why I'm in the green? It's because I've learned this three years ago and I haven't implemented it properly, but this year I'm doing it. I'm buying Christmas presents for people in the lead up to Christmas. Smart. So I'm just using little bits each month of my gifts allowance rather than getting to the 10th of December and having a total panic attack. And I am feeling like the most organized green girl out. I'm really proud of myself. It's also much easier on the bank account. It's nice to do it slowly and incrementally.

7:10It's genius. I actually feel like your camcorder would be an amazing last minute gift for anyone that's not.

7:16Madi Stefanis: Yes. Is it in stock? It is in stock. We are due to sell out. But our next batch of stock will arrive in time for Christmas delivery. So we're going to go straight on pre-order. And if you want it for Christmas, you can pre-order it. and it will be at your door before the 25th. Okay. Maybe I'll get myself a Christmas present. I'm sure I can help you out. Don't. I actually did. For everyone wondering, paid full price for my camera. You did. I'm actually really proud of doing that because I do feel like it's important also to support other businesses. Now, today, I'm quite excited because in our last episode, we spoke about your business and how it grew and how you started it.

7:51And I loved that conversation. But one of the things that you mentioned at the end of that combo, which we actually cut out of that original episode because we were like, hold on a second, this is like a whole thing. We need to actually go way deeper in it. It's how you approach your own personal finances and your investing. But I would love to start by understanding a bit more about you and how you actually related to money as a younger person. Like I know you started a business really young, but I mean like almost five or six. Do you, or even just growing up, do you remember what your relationship was like with money or how you interacted with it?

8:24Madi Stefanis: I remember never really having to worry about money. I think that if there were struggles within the family unit, I wasn't privy to them. I think that whatever was going on, it was none of my concern, which was honestly a really nice way to kind of grow up in my childhood. Do you remember the first money conversation you had or when you started thinking about it? I think I remember being taught to just save my money, like even getting a dollar from the tooth fairy under my pillow. It was always like, what will I do with this one dollar? And my mom always encouraged me to save it. Go, mom. Yeah, she was really good.

9:00Go, mom. Also inflation. Imagine having to pay for a kid's tooth now. No, I know. It would be like$100.

9:07Madi Stefanis: You'd be like, why do I have a dollar? This is what I think. I actually think that's quite cool to be left out of money conversations and to not have to worry about it. But I am also surprised in the same breath that you are so, I don't really say intelligent with money because I think that it almost gives this perception that people need to be intelligent to be good with money or to be good with numbers, which all of those things I think are not true. But to have gone into business really young, I almost would have thought you had those conversations earlier. And I think as someone who also didn't really have to pay for much super young, I think I would probably do the opposite with my kids.

9:43I think that I would try and talk to them about it younger and do like family tax and, you know, do it as a thing where they understood it younger because it took so long for those key concepts to land for me as an adult.

9:57Madi Stefanis: Yeah, I think that is quite cool. I'll definitely say probably up until the age of 14, I wasn't privy to what was happening. And then the minute I turned 14, I was heavily encouraged to go and get my first job, which I did. And was that because you needed to, because the family needed you to make money? Or was that more just because they were like, go work and make your own money. The second. They were like, go work, make your own money, learn the value of money. I needed to save for my first car. So the minute I turned 14, I was like, now is the time I need to start saving my dollars. I think there is something in the emotional connection with wanting something.

10:29And then it's spurring on whether it's making money, saving money, being better with it. And whether it's a car or I just feel like a lot of my friends only really started paying attention to money when they had to, or there was something they really wanted or a big life change, whether it was, I don't know, I almost wonder if that's the best way to get someone into it, where it's like, oh, there's something you want. You can dangle that carrot and be like, if you want to get there, you need to do X, Y, Z.

10:56Madi Stefanis: Yes, I agree. And then I think I became a lot more conscious of money when I was 21 and my divorced. So my money story was quite easy growing up. And then I think that I started becoming a little bit more involved in the financial conversations after that. And was that your choice or did you try and lean into it? Was it just kind of part of your parents divorcing that you sort of, by virtue of that, then had to be dragged into financial conversations? Yeah, I think it was a little bit of both. My sister and I remained with my mom. So did the three pets in the family. It's almost like we took a whole family unit with us.

11:30Madi Stefanis: So I think that we actively wanted to be involved in what was happening. Did that impact your relationship with money or career or anything? in a, I guess, not did it, how did it impact your relationship with money career? I'd say positively and negatively. I think that I started to see money as perhaps a little bit more scarce, or I almost took on this sense of responsibility. Not that I was ever put in a position and I was never made to feel like I had to look after anyone. But I think being the oldest sibling, you always naturally kind of feel that way and adopt those feelings. You probably at that point, either at uni or maybe have your first job, the idea of then having to care for or pay for family is not often what 21 year olds have to deal with or is that really privileged of me to think I don't know and I don't think that I ever had to pay for anyone like there was no expectation but I felt such an I just wanted to be able to look after the people I cared about does that make sense I felt like such a spoiled brat that I was just so focused on myself my parents separated too and my my mum definitely both of them it was really, really hard, but I never, I don't think I ever felt like the financial burden was something.

12:43I don't even know if I thought that I had the power to even change it.

12:46Madi Stefanis: Yeah. I don't even know if it was a burden for me. I think that I just felt such a sense of responsibility because my mom gave so much for my sister and I throughout her life that I really want to give back. And I still do in any way that I can. At the point in which they separated, was your mom able to go back into work? Did seeing her post-divorce influence your relationship with like how you wanted to live your life and the way that you wanted to have money I don't I mean for me like my my experience was definitely that money was quite a massive part of the conversation the divorce there was a lot of like compounding and things that meant that uh I couldn't not be aware of the financial elements that underpinned the divorce and I think that's probably true for a lot of kids that see it Because inherently divorce is a financial separation of assets.

13:36Yes. What were some of the ways that it was negative or positive?

13:39Madi Stefanis: I was really proud of my mom, to be completely honest. I think that post-divorce, she's always worked. So she's always worked full-time from the day we were born up until now. She still does. And I think that as women, we're often discredited for the work that we do. And that was the thing that really bothered me the most. I think that perhaps she walked away from that in quite a disadvantaged position. right so I think that's probably how it negatively impacted my relationship with money but I've also just got such a fire in my belly and I really love to prove people wrong and so it kind of spurred in me okay what can I do how can I help how can we make the most out of the situation does that then mean that the way that you are or or deal with your own personal finances in the way that you invest do you feel this is going to sound really intense but do you feel kind of alone in that that it's like totally on you and that even if you're in a beautiful loving relationship that your finances will always remain very independent I think so I don't like to rely on other people like I love a good safety net I love an emergency fund I like taking risks but I also like to know that I'll be okay I feel like I swing between both of those yeah it's such a weird one when you're like you love someone and you're really happy in a relationship but you've also seen something go so terribly wrong that you're just like we're not blindfolded to think that marriage is easy and that all of them last you know so there is this kind of I'm always aware of how do I remain independent while also leaning into being a team which is a really weird thing to navigate and I do think you can do both still navigating that one so when it came to like money beliefs and things that you thought about money were there any that were ingrained in you whether it's from the divorce or from being young or from starting your business, were there some that you had when you were younger that you perhaps have like gotten rid of?

15:29Madi Stefanis: I actually think I've retained a lot of my money beliefs. I was always taught growing up, as long as you work for it, you can achieve anything you want or make any amount of money you want. So I think that maybe that's not so much a money belief, but more so just working hard. But I think that was always ingrained in me from such a young age. So cool. And was that your mom or dad or both? Mom, I think that dad worked very hard as well. They both did. But also mom was really big on investing. Yeah, she was really good at managing the household finances. So I think I took a lot of inspiration from her in that regard.

16:06Madi Stefanis: Was she the person that first introduced you to investing? Yeah. How old were you? I think I was 18. And was she like, right, this is the stock market. Really, you should try to get into it as quick as you can. Like, do you remember what, it's almost like the talk, like the sex talk, but you got the investing for. Yeah, and I think it was a little bit more casual than that. It was kind of just brought up in conversation over time, but it was just about building long-term wealth. Even if it was literally putting$100 into the stock market, anything was always better than nothing. That's so amazing.

16:36Yeah. Like what you've described is the experience of two really hardworking parents. Yes. One who sounds like was more involved in the family finances and quite aware of what to do to grow wealth. But to be left in a less than ideal financial position, you kind of assume that that happens to people who aren't particularly financially aware or have never thought about investing and have no idea they even have investments as a couple.

17:04Madi Stefanis: Yeah, it was an interesting situation. My dad definitely brought in more money, but my mom was the one who was really good at figuring out how to manage it or she was always pushing to invest it. Which is the main thing that grows wealth. Yes. Because that I am so, so, so, so, so grateful that I learned to invest. And hopefully there's people listening to this that maybe are like, what's investing? I haven't thought of it before. Because I think there's a lot of people who now feel like they grasp the concept of it. But there's still a lot of people, particularly women, that are so scared to enter the conversation.

17:37And it is so easy. It's so much easier than people realize. And so today's conversation, I really want to talk about how you manage your money and both from like a personal finance perspective, but also how you invest. And then lastly, I really want to talk about how you use AI to like almost catapult what you already know and to make it even more of a robust plan by sense checking. And I think there's just so much to talk about. So amazing that your mom introduced you to investing. Do you remember like the first thing you invested in? What was your portfolio from 18? Did you start straight away or did it take a while to get into it?

18:11Madi Stefanis: I think it probably took me a year to actually action her advice. My first investment, so funny, it was a retailer that my company was stocked in. It was actually Universal Store in Australia. Isn't it so cute when you look back at your first investment and you're like, oh, cute choice? Yeah, they went public and I remember I invested in them, which did well in hindsight. Did it? It was a good investment. Did you invest regularly or was it like a one-off like, oh, I'm going to chuck a bit in? No, it was always regularly. Okay. So I think particularly back then when I was much younger, it was smaller amounts of money, but at regular intervals.

18:41God, that's so good. I can't believe you did that so young.

18:44Madi Stefanis: Yeah, I would just take like little bits of money from my paycheck and invest them every week. Did anyone tell you to do that? Or did you just think you'd do it? My mom. God, we love your mom. Yeah, she was kind of good at just no amount was too little, if that makes sense. Yeah, which is quite important, especially when you haven't done it. I think the amount of confidence you build by just putting tiny bits in is crazy. Yeah, and then seeing what actually happens to it over a long period of time. Yeah, yeah. It's almost like, okay, cool. You can be scared of it. You can not trust it. You can be really dubious, but like chuck a bit in and see.

19:15Exactly. Money, you don't care if it goes anywhere. And just look at it over a long period of time. You can talk about it and learn about it till the cows come home. But unless you actually just try, I really think it's like you build confidence from doing when it comes to investing. I agree.

19:27Madi Stefanis: And it's such a good set and forget. Just put in a little bit of money every single week that you can afford to part ways with and then see what happens to it in 12 months, two years. Yeah. This is kind of a random question. But do you have any investments that you consider investments that a lot of other people may not consider as investments? Outside of? Outside of the classic stocks, property, bonds. I can give you a really superficial answer here. Fine. I actually think clothing and how I present myself. Yeah. I definitely like to spend. I have expensive taste when it comes to clothes, but I think it is such an investment in me and how I present to the world.

20:04But I think that's an investment. And I can't remember where I heard this, but someone was talking about this recently. It was, you know what, it was Maggie Sellers on Hot Smart Rich, and she was talking about how when she had basically no money in the bank, she'd go to Beverly Hills Hotel for the coffees. And that's where she would close deals. Yes. Yes. There's something about how you feel when you're really proud of how you look and also how other people perceive you. And you can think it's stupid until the cows come home, but it's just the reality of social politics.

20:31Madi Stefanis: It really impacts how you present yourself to the world and how you show up in a room. So no, the clothes on my body aren't going to go up in value in that sense, but perhaps it allows me to create more value or generate more money because of how I'm showing up every day. I like that. I think that's a really good and honest answer. Yeah. Because I do love your jewelry. I thought you were going to say jewellery, because a lot of your, like, I mean, Tiffany & Co is not an investment. No, it's not. Cartier is also not an investment. I just don't know that I would ever sell it. Like, I don't purchase jewellery with the intent.

21:00Madi Stefanis: And I also don't worry whether it's going to go up in value or not. I just buy it because it feels like a forever piece for me. Yeah, yeah. I think that's so good. I also love the thin Cartier. Yes. I always see people with the thicker one. That's so cool. I definitely prefer slightly more subtle pieces. So nice. Do you feel like this is a conversation you can have with friends, investing? Some friends, yes. Other friends, no. As in some of them just are not investing? I think this is a given, but obviously I approach money quite differently to my friends who work 9-5s. So some of us do clash heads a little bit, but I actually really enjoy that because I think it's so interesting to be able to sit at a dinner and have a conversation about investing.

21:36What do you think are some of the clashes that come with someone who is managing money from a 9-5 job versus running their own business or working for themselves?

21:44Madi Stefanis: My wardrobe is often a point of contention with my friends. Right. Okay, right. This is a reoccurring topic. Okay, okay. Well, I'm glad we've just gone and been very honest about it. So honest. As in, you spend money on clothes that your friends are kind of a bit like, Maddie. Yeah. Okay, that makes sense. I love that I could see your face dancing around it. You were like, how do I answer this question? No, I'm just going to be completely honest. And in my defense, my golden rule is, say I purchase a handbag, I have to invest the same amount of money. Oh. So basically I adopt the concept of if you can't afford it twice, don't buy it at all.

22:16Shit, that's intense. I've heard quite a few people talk about that. That is so, wow. So if you bought something expensive, can I say the bag you're looking for at the moment? Yeah. Maddie's trying to find a bag. What's it called? It's just the Muggo bag from the row. It's probably the most popular handbag. Okay. And this is how much? I think it's maybe in pounds.

22:37Madi Stefanis: 4 ,000? Yeah, maybe five. And so you're going to basically, if you buy that, you'll then also invest money. Yes. Sorry, you're so impressive. You are 26 and you're able to do that. That is so cool. Also, the fact that you're actually doing that rather than just being like, no, I'm just going to spend all my money on clothes. You're like, no, I'm doing it, but I'm also growing wealth at the same time. I mean, I still don't know that it's the most sensible thing to do. Like I could be investing both of those amounts in shares and setting myself up better for the future. But like I said, I feel like it's an investment in myself.

23:08Madi Stefanis: and I also do want to enjoy my life. I think that entrepreneurs especially sacrifice things for so long. Like we don't really get paid until we exit or sell a company. And so I don't want to spend the next 10 years hating my life and being miserable for the sake of long-term wealth. That is probably the one thing that I would say comes up time and time and time again when it comes to how do you figure out how much to spend on something, how much to invest, how do you enjoy your life now while also being sensible. It is the golden question. You just need to decide what makes you happy. Like, I am incredibly self-aware.

23:43Madi Stefanis: I'm inherently materialistic. I love shiny things. And I've known that about myself. My first word was label. No way. Yeah. And my mom thinks it's hilarious. Your mom is like, oh no, oh no, shoot. Nobody in my family knows what a designer item is. So this is one of those, like, nurture versus nature. It has been in me from day one and I cannot fight it. So I've just found a way to make the most of it. This is hilarious. Yes. Label. Yeah. Iconic. Not mom or dad. Not interested in mom or dad. No. Give me a bracelet. Yeah. That's so funny. Okay. So basically, if you're then planning to make a big investment in clothing or a bag or jewelry, you'll make sure before you buy it that you can match that money.

24:25Yes. So you're kind of doing a double saving.

24:27Madi Stefanis: Yeah. I will often dollar cost average. So I'll invest the same amount consistently week on week rather than dumping a lump sum into the stock market. look it really depends how much it is but that's so cool I love that it's fun to have your own rules for it too I haven't heard anyone do that and it's really cool if someone's listening to this and they have never invested before or even if you're having a conversation with one of your friends that doesn't invest how would you try and pitch it or give them the confidence to give it a go because we often say what we said before which was just try a little bit it took me so long to just try a little bit and I'm just wondering if you have any hot tips on how to convince someone that's maybe not feeling that excited by it.

25:06Madi Stefanis: I can give you something really basic, and it's actually not my analogy. I think I heard Stephen Barlett say this many years ago. It was about a guy sitting in a room who didn't want a vacuum, and it was just speaking about how this guy could not get out of bed and couldn't bear the thought of cleaning his room. And so basically it was like on day one he got out of bed and he put the vacuum in his room. On day two he plugged it in. day three he turned it on but didn't actually vacuum anything and so I kind of think of investing the same way in the sense that maybe on day one you open a brokerage account like you put in your details sign up input your password and it's open it's yours you don't have to do anything you don't have to look at anything but the account is sitting there and so day by day just take small steps whether that be transferring your funds it could be a hundred dollars into an account so that it's ready for you to invest it's a really good one it's almost like what are the things you know you could do make a list and and spread it out make a tiny task list for yourself and tick it off like you would your to-do list at your job yeah because I think it seems like this huge thing it's like a mountain in front of you and you don't know how to tackle it so to actually go from creating the account to making your first investment just break it down into manageable steps the other thing that's great about that and it's similar I can't remember who was talking about this but they're saying you know like the idea of going for a run was just like oh i just want to oh my god i'd rather do anything go for a run so they'd put their shoes on but i'm going for a walk yes they all go for a trot and then all of a sudden they're off for a jog you know it's like you might not but just getting out of the house and doing the thing it's often like the avoidance that takes so much more energy and time than the actual doing and if you just do a tiny step in the right direction you may open your account and end up doing all of it in one go but don't put the pressure on to do the whole thing.

26:52Madi Stefanis: Exactly. Or even just having a conversation with a friend. Do you invest in shares? What do you invest in? How did you do that? I think is really fun and interesting. I agree. Agree, agree, agree. Also, don't be put off if you ask someone and they give you the weirdest reaction ever because I happen to be several times. Exactly. And I don't think you need to be the smartest person in the room. A lot of my friends, partners, particularly in New York, work in private wealth and I am so far over my head having conversations with them, but I love to ask questions about it. Well, you only learn by asking questions or maybe go and read a giant finance book.

27:25But if you're not going to do that, ask a question. Exactly. I do think people are pretty open and excited to share. And if they're not, stop asking questions immediately and find a new person. Because the last thing you want to do is build up the courage to be like, okay, I'm going to ask questions. And then they're being a total dick about it. And then you don't ask more questions. There's so many people that will talk about investing in a way that you will eventually understand. and just ask someone you feel comfortable with or go back and listen to like the very beginning episodes of The Curve because I was such a winner we actually just like last month did a like an archive resurgence we brought out like the earliest episodes of just basic what is risk and I think if you can learn in your own space and time if you feel too embarrassed to ask questions podcast books things like that are actually such a good resource a really good resource yeah okay Okay, so before someone even opens an investing app, what would you say needs to be true about someone's finances first?

28:19Or even what for you was true before you opened an account? Was there something or did you just go for it?

28:25Madi Stefanis: I think you need to have an emergency fund first and foremost. I know I've spoken about this before. No, it's so true. It's part of my money story. I love to have a fallback. So for me, I keep six months of expenses in an emergency account. So that'll be my rent, my health insurance, anything that is like a consistent overhead in my personal life. And then I think you just need to look at how much money you're bringing in each week. Understand where every dollar is being allocated and can you put aside a certain amount of money to consistently invest on a weekly basis. And so from your perspective, you think the best thing to do would be to figure out what is the consistent amount and try and do that.

29:00Madi Stefanis: Yeah. Treat yourself like a company. You should know where you're spending your money every single week if you're spending$30 a week on coffee, which is completely fine. You just need to know that figure. Don't live in the ignorance of your bank account. Oh, God. A true word never been spoken. I'll tell you what. That's actually what we have in the IOU course is exactly that. Once you've got your emergency fund sorted, how can you then find out what is that consistent amount? What is that surplus that you can just automate and make so easy for yourself? So easy. Okay, let's chat about how you use AI with your finances because I need to do this.

29:31And I'm sure there's a lot of people that would love to know how you use this resource in a way that's actually really helpful. I was actually looking, there was a survey done by EY and it was basically a global AI sentiment survey. So they were just seeing like who feels what, who uses what for what. And I found that Gen Z, so between the ages of 14 and 29, show the highest overall adoption of AI when it comes to financial decisions.

29:54Madi Stefanis: Wow. It's only really something when you mentioned in the first conversation we had, which we actually did cut out of that conversation because we knew we wanted to talk about it in way more detail. I had this light bulb moment of I've started to implement AI in lots of different parts of my life. My finances actually hasn't really been something that I've used it for. But yeah, 68 % are using AI for like some aspect of their financial management within Gen Z. And I just was like, that's nearly 70 % of people. Yeah, it's really cool. And you obviously are doing it really well. So I would love to use this as almost like a building block to go through in terms of how you've used it and set it up.

30:32So even if you are part of this percentage and you're already using it, maybe you'll hear or learn some things that might help to do it better or finesse the way that you're doing it. So could you maybe just start by running us through as an overarching view, how do you use it with regards to your finances?

30:47Madi Stefanis: Often, it's either ChatGPT or Claude, both have complete summaries of all of my bank accounts, all of my investments, but also my salary. So they understand my income every single week. They know my overheads, I like to call them like my personal line items that I spend money on every single week. So that could be my groceries, my rent, my health insurance, and that it understands what's left over. So I kind of use it to help me make financial decisions. And obviously, you need to use an element of critical thinking because AI is not always going to have the perfect answer. But that is essentially how I use it as a soundboard.

31:23Madi Stefanis: If I'm kind of trying to make a financial decision, I'll put it through an AI search engine and kind of allow it to help me understand how that money is best spent or invested. So could you give me an example of what you might outsource to ask, like a question or a decision that you might go to what you've set up in Claude or Chat Shipt and be like, I'm thinking about X, Y, Z versus what you would go to a professional or not use it for? Say I receive a lump sum payment, so it could be money from a brand partnership. I will go to AI and say, I received X amount of money. I want to invest it all in shares.

32:00Madi Stefanis: Where is it best invested in my portfolio? So I'll kind of get it to evaluate the weighting of my portfolio. So because I'm young, I tend to be a little bit more high risk and volatile in what I'm investing in. And so it'll come back to me and kind of give me an answer as to perhaps you have too much money in this share or not enough in this share. You need to like stabilize your portfolio or mitigate risk a little bit. And I never really use it to pick individual stocks. I think that I'm quite knowledgeable as to what I like investing in, but it'll almost look at the weighting of my portfolio and tell me where that should sit.

32:31Madi Stefanis: Or it'll come back and say, hey, you You spent X amount out of your emergency fund last month. It's depleted. You need to put it straight in there. This is genius. This is absolutely genius. And so if you were to get professional advice, would it be on more if you were doing big picture planning or if you were trying to figure out what you want to invest in or things like that? I think so. I also think once my portfolio reaches a certain valuation, that is when I'd seek professional advice. Or say I sold my company and I had a lump sum, genuine large amount of money that I needed to invest. I wouldn't use AI.

33:03Madi Stefanis: I would go to a professional financial planner. Right. Okay. And are there any other golden rules in terms of things that you would either sense check with someone else or you really would always be like, this is the time to always make sure you have a layer of critical thinking over the top of using AI? Always. I think you always need to have a layer of critical thinking or you need to feel confident in the decisions you're making. It's your money at the end of the day. If you lose it all, it's not AI's fault. It's almost similar to what we're talking about with investing small amounts. I think you probably want to slowly build up the knowledge that it has, the trust in those decisions, but maybe just always assume it could be wrong.

33:42That's what I do.

33:43Madi Stefanis: I always assume that money invested is money lost. Par out. It's so depressing, though. Okay, take us back to the beginning. If someone was looking to try and do a similar thing, where they give all of the information that you have so that it has as much as it has to go on to be as accurate as possible, could you talk us through the steps to take? Because I personally would love to do this. Of course. I literally just have projects set up. So I'll label it. I actually think it's called Madison's Wealth Project 2026 or something. someone is going to listen to this and cringe because I literally uploaded bank statements from the past 12-24 months.

34:21Madi Stefanis: It knows everything about me. I think I would do the same. Just every dollar that's come in and out of my account. So you basically downloaded as much as you can be bothered going back in time, downloading your bank statements, and then basically you started by saying, here is what I've spent in the last two years. Analyze it. Correct, because it's analyzing my spending habits. It's showing me where I'm putting the majority of my money. another thing I really liked using it for was it analyzed all of my spending and told me which credit cards were best suited so that I could optimize points obviously I fly back to Australia a lot I'm playing the airline points game as much as I can at the start of this year I actually went to AI and said this is my investment goal for 2026 let's work backwards how much do I need to invest on a weekly basis to hit this metric okay so many questions and I'm so excited about So first off, we would be dumping our spending in.

35:10Are there any prompt suggestions that you would give where it's like, figure out how much I'm spending on the things that I need to be spending, figure out how much I'm spending on discretionary? Like, is that what would be some of the main things? Because I'm just thinking of, for example, the IOU course and how we teach people to get their finances sort of generally. It's what are the things you need to spend? What are the things you want to spend on like fund stuff? What's your emergency fund? Are you in debt? And then investments.

35:35Madi Stefanis: I actually think I would first ask for lists of all necessary expenses, consistent overheads, and then all discretionary spending because what AI believes to be discretionary and what you categorize as discretionary may not be the same. That's a really good idea. So it's almost like before you even bucket things out to say, come back with a list of all the expenses that you think are my essentials or that I need to pay for, like rent, phone bills, etc. And then a list of things I'm spending on my sort of fun money and then correct it first. Exactly. It definitely requires a human element, a little bit of manual overview, because this is a ridiculous example, but say that I need to get a blowout and I have to get my hair done every single week.

36:16Madi Stefanis: It's innate. That is a discretionary expense, but maybe to me it's a necessary one. Right. Okay. We won't be saying it's necessary to anyone listening, but point is your essentials or your wants and needs, like the fun money versus the essential money. Your values. It is personal. May differ. Yes, they will differ. So ideally, and we actually do have this in the IOU course so that you can figure out what goes in what, but generally as like a very high level, it will be things like your rent, your gym membership, things you need to be happy, healthy, safe within your needs. But then going out for dinner is generally a blow wave.

36:52Things that are not necessarily a need would be in your want money. And so once you've got those lists, would it then be like, okay, how much on average over the last two years have I spent in both of those buckets?

37:04Madi Stefanis: Yeah, and often I'll actually go in and say, if it gives me a line item that I think is too high, I'll actually use it as a tool to go back and say, how do I reduce this cost? Let's say at this point, someone's got the average of what they spend on rent bills, that kind of thing. And then the average that they spend on the stuff that they want and say they've never invested before. So at this point, they don't have any surplus or money to put towards an emergency fund or investments or anything like that. Would it be like, okay, based on my spending, what would be the things that you would pull out or how would you rejig what I spend so that I have 20 % left over knowing I'm earning this amount a month.

37:37Madi Stefanis: Exactly. I think it's nice to use it as a soundboard to present different options to you and then you can make your own judgment. Or on the flip side, you could turn around and say, I think that we're so conditioned to sit in a scarcity mindset. You could turn around and say to AI, how do I make more money to hit this goal? so ideally if you've got to a point where you know what you are spending on those three main buckets you could then say give me a list of the main things I'm spending and what my budget is on each of those to stay within this the confines of what my goal is it's I think the thing as I'm asking you questions on this I'm realizing what is really important though to be able to use AI well is to know what you're meant to do with your money and it's actually quite hard to just be Here's an A to Z.

38:23Use AI to sort out your finances. If you don't know, you should have 20%. What is your emergency fund? I don't think if you don't have those basics, it's probably quite hard actually to set it up. I agree, which is probably a great segue to say, go and do the IOU course

38:38Madi Stefanis: and actually understand how you need to be allocating your money and figure out your money values before you start doing things like this. I actually think that's a really good segue way because I do know those things. So let's use me as an example. So I know what I spend on my essential bucket. I know what I spend on my wants bucket and I know what I'm investing. I'm reasonably happy with that. But let's say I wanted to sense check. I could still dump all my spending and all my investments in there and say, this is what I've currently done. This is now my new goal. Say by 2027, I want to have done this.

39:09What would you suggest I change about what I've currently got set up using what you know about what's in each of my buckets and you're seeing my spending maybe that's a good way to do it yeah I think that's how I would go about it I also

39:20Madi Stefanis: consistently update AI like I think it's important to tell it when things change or when your circumstances differ so that it's not always giving you advice that is no longer relevant so would an example be um you know your salary changes or your new goal is this or you would rather not be like totally spending nothing on any fun stuff and therefore if you need to adjust the goal you adjust the goal yeah things like that maybe your mobile plan increases by$20 a month so that's$20 that you can no longer invest right so you have to actually be quite on it with not it's almost like don't forget to communicate to your financial AI if you're using it because otherwise it's going off wrong information you need to always keep it updated it's not a set and forget can you just brain vomit on me like the things that you use it for that are really helpful yeah I think there's so many this is so basic say that you love getting your nails done every month and it's something that charge gbt is telling you to cut out but you're not willing to sacrifice it go to it and say give me a list of nail salons within a 10 kilometer radius of my home that charge less than the amount i'm currently paying or find me a group on offer or something to that extent like i'm gonna use it as a search engine to kind of help improve your financial position so clever so you could do that with anything whether it's nails whether it's gym membership so it's almost like this is important to me I want to keep paying for my gym membership find me five other alternatives that are within this range that xyz yeah or evaluate if class passes a better alternative find the best option that suits my goals so okay let's talk about your investing strategy how would you explain it to someone what do you invest in what do you like investing in?

41:06Is it indexes, stocks? Give us an overview of your portfolio.

41:11Madi Stefanis: A little bit of both. I like to have my portfolio somewhat evenly weighted. A lot of ETFs. I think majority of my investments sit in ETFs, but then I also have a lot of tech. I'm quite bullish on AI. I really like tech companies. And is that in individual stocks? You've picked a few and then you've got ETFs as well. Yes, correct. Have you done, and I'm guessing this is probably something you asked AI, how much crossover do I have between the stocks that are tech and the ETFs I've invested in? Yes. And so what would you ask it as like a real life example? Let's say, what are three of the top ETFs you do?

41:46Is it like S &P? Yeah, like S &P 500. Yeah. Global index, whatever. Exactly. So let's say you've got three and you would say, you know, I'm already invested in these ETFs. Look at the fact that I've also invested in Amazon, Google and...

41:59Madi Stefanis: Individual tech stocks. What is the crossover? Yeah. And I think it's really helpful for things like that because it'll show you where there's crossover in your portfolio. So then if you had your 10 ,000 that you were then figuring out where to put it, it might say just put it in these indexes or ETFs because otherwise you'll be too overweight. Those single stocks. Yeah. Okay. And I do think that I love an element of risk solely because of my age. I'm not too worried about taking a bit more risk with my investments. There are certain companies that I've lost money, I've made money. I just think it all comes out in the wash.

42:30Madi Stefanis: yeah don't go and invest in just what made it sound but i'd love to know like what are the types of tech companies that you're interested in and why have you chosen them so funny i'm like can i pull up my portfolio um things like tesla asml which is so funny i had a conversation with my partner they uh i was speaking to my partner yesterday and he was like you're not going to know how to explain this they're the chips that i can't even tell you yeah essentially and there's a global chip shortage. That's probably been my best performing investment to give you context. Okay, cool. And did you pick that using research with AI or was it like conversations with your partner, with other people?

43:07Like what?

43:08Madi Stefanis: Both conversations, research. I watch a lot of YouTube videos. I'll just have them playing in the background because I'm so interested. I'm invested in things like Coinbase. Like the actual infrastructure for that point. Yes, the app itself. Or I guess technically they're a bank now. Yeah. Wow. Oh my God, so fascinating. Yeah, I like to invest in companies that I genuinely believe in. Yes. So do you do crypto? I hold a little bit. Because it's down so much now, I'm like... My Bitcoin is on the floor. Oh. But I'll hold it for the next 20 years and see what happens. I'm really not too fussed about it.

43:39So if you were to explain your strategy, would you say it's just mostly ETS because it's diversified? And then when you really like something and you understand it and you know it, you'll put some money in. And then will that become part of your portfolio? and do you split equally across all of those when you invest every month?

43:56Madi Stefanis: I'll top up based on its current weighting. So I'll kind of look at how things are performing. Also, I love to buy when the market is down. Like I'm really, I'm not scared of crashes at all. I love them. Yeah, so do I. Where's the shopping trolley? Off I go. I'm like, I absolutely love it. I don't check my portfolio daily. I'm not interested in knowing what's happening on the day to day. Neither. I think it's such a good strategy. But then as soon as there's a crash, I'm like, oh, we're on sale. Off we go. okay what's one thing that you've done that's made investing much easier for yourself consistency just knowing that every Friday I have to invest my money so you do it as a weekly thing yeah do you pay yourself weekly or is it yes okay yeah I quite like that yeah it's nice I do monthly but I'd love to do weekly yeah weekly is nice why have I not done that that's like it holds me a little bit more accountable it's also I guess a bit easier on cash flow it's a shorter time so So if you F up something or you actually have a blowout, you're being paid closer.

44:51So you can't and you also can't blow up that badly because you're not working with your entire month's amount.

44:55Madi Stefanis: It's a good measured amount of control. Oh, my God. Okay, maybe I'm going to look into this. And so is it automated? Do you have a certain amount? And then? Yep, I have a certain amount. So, for example, my pay hits my account and then a certain figure goes automatically in savings, which is put aside for my rent. Okay, right. So you do rent savings and that's automatic. And then your investments go where? investments go into a separate account and then i'll pull them into my brokerage account and invest right and do you actually make a conscious decision every friday so you'll go to your ai and you'll say i've just been paid i've got two grand whatever you're investing every week lol imagine if you had two grand epic and then you would say based on what you're seeing right now how would you split across my existing investment yeah pretty much it's hard to make ai think longer term because obviously the market is an ever changing thing but often it'll say things like okay so for the next four weeks this is our focus and yes I'll reassess it on a weekly basis but I kind of know at any given point in time what I'm doing or what I'm trying to achieve I'm gonna try it just because I want to see what it says you should just set aside a day or even half a day and just have some fun with it like just explore yeah I feel like AI has made me lazy in like a good way in the sense that I actually think maybe I'm not asking prompts in exactly the right way but I'm starting to get so much better at thinking like even just your examples of saying compare this compare that it just sparks a little like aha in my brain of okay oh okay cool yeah so but your dollar cost averaging just like we you know we always talk about you should just consistently always invest so it's not like you're making a decision on should you invest or where should you invest because you know where you've already got your investments and you know how often but it's just like the split that you're looking at each month I love using AI to research companies as well so it's not telling me what decisions to make but I'll use it to ask all the questions and kind of see what a company's doing and if I actually believe in their mission.

46:46What I instantly wanted to ask you is, oh, well, what do you ask it? What do you ask it? Tell me. I want to know. But actually, you can intuitively also figure that out because there's no dumb question with AI. You could literally say, if you were a world-class investing analyst, what would be the five key things you would look at before you decided to invest in this? Or you might be like, how much money is it making? Compare that to their competitors. You don't even have to invest in it but it could just be a fun tool to try and see what it comes back with as we're talking about this and how to lean into AI with your finances try not to use it in isolation yes you need to really also sense check things with yes with people around you that you trust have you had any big investing blunders that you really learned from like things that you invested in you're like that was a blowout I actually haven't and maybe that's why I'm so

47:32Madi Stefanis: positive yeah I don't think I've really had anything that I've regretted investing in I think that I've definitely had stocks where their growth has kind of slowed but for the most part they still performed well at some point in time and perhaps they're not the best investment now but they were at the time this is a really positive conversation for anyone that is new to investing I think but I would say having lows or things that don't go right is inevitable and yes because the markets go up and down but that's why when you're first starting small amounts is just like it's fine you You know, the stakes are so much lower.

48:07And kind of to your point where you said, you know, if you sold your company and you had a huge sum, that's when you would then look to get more help. I think it's just knowing what stage you're at. Start with as small as you're happy to lose. That's such a classic old school investing phrase to say, only invest what you're willing to lose. And it never landed with me because I was like, but I don't want to lose any money ever. So why would I invest money I want to lose? But I think in the context of this, when you're, especially if you're a beginner to investing, it's a really good one.

48:33Madi Stefanis: Yeah, I think it's all about just understanding what will make you feel comfortable as an investor. Like, do you need to go and look at historical data? Like, what is going to make you feel a sense of comfort to encourage you to continue investing? I've loved this. I figured out how you're going to earn that extra credit. credit okay we finish every iou episode with extra credit so i think it could be really fun to give someone listening who's thinking okay right i would really like to lean in a little bit more to ai i'm going to try and like use it in a clever way with regards to my finances what's like one task or something that they could do that might help instill more confidence in how they can start using ai in a way that will be a really good sounding board for them moving forward understand exactly where your money is going because that's going to inform your decision as to how you invest and whether you can invest.

49:26Madi Stefanis: Yes, yeah. And if you're looking at the numbers and it doesn't seem feasible or even if you don't already have an emergency fund, do that first because nobody wants to start investing and then having to pull out investments in case of emergency. So I would almost, before you even consider investing, make sure you have an emergency fund or some type of fallback first. I totally agree. and I'm going to give you another one just because I think it's fun. This is what I'm going to do. I'm going to look at a big expense. So it might be like, probably to be honest for me, it might be class pass and I'm going to compare the market.

49:58I'm going to go look and be like, how much am I spending every month? What classes do I really enjoy? And ask it to try and find better, cheaper options so that I can still exercise but maybe find more money for investing. I like that a lot. Thank you so much, Maddie. I'm really excited. We're going to speak to you again next month with IOU to talk about business finances and it's going to be really beginner friendly. So you don't have to know anything about EBITDA

50:19Madi Stefanis: or revenue or anything like that. But I'm really looking forward to talking about that. But thank you for today. And for anyone that wants to find the new amazing camcorder that you've just launched or any of the other work that you're doing, where is it they can find you? You can find it at 35mmmeterco.com and then my personal socials are just Madison Stavarnas. Thank you so much, Maddie. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much, the Bank of New Zealand, for sponsoring this episode of IOU Some Money Education. There is an art to starting something new. And just like any art form, you need the right tools to make it work.

50:48Whether you're flatting or you're saving to travel, maybe you want to make a career move, the Bank of New Zealand has the tools to help you master your money from the get-go. And don't forget to check out IOU The Practical Lessons to put everything that you've been learning into practice. You can find the details in the podcast show notes. Okay, quickly, the Curve was created to empower and educate you about investing, but we are not financial advisors. Our platform exists for educational purposes only, and it doesn't provide personalized investing advice for your individual needs, and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision.

51:18And always remember to do your own research before making any investment or financial decision. We're here for any knowledge and support you need, but the final call is always yours. And thanks for being here. You got this. Yeah, we know you got this.