‘A desperately sentimental last PMQs’: Why Starmer won’t make the history books

0:04The Telegraph. Keir Starmer's last hurrah in the House of Commons. We analyse his final PMQs. Can he really claim to be leaving the country in a better state than he found it? Standing ovation at the end was desperately sentimental for a Prime Minister who I fear will not be remembered by the history books. Welcome to The Daily Tea with me Camilla Tominey and me Jacob Rees-Mogg.

0:37Jacob, a momentous day on two fronts. First of all, Keir Starmer's last ever PMQs, which we'll discuss in just a minute. And second of all, and they are linked to these two events, the World Cup semi-final, England versus Argentina, tonight at eight. And there was a footballing theme to his last session in the House of Commons, and we will get on to that. But first of all, where are you watching it? Second of all, will you break a tradition, a dress code tradition tonight and don an England football shirt? I will unfortunately or fortunately be broadcasting State of the Nation at 8 o 'clock this evening.

1:17I'm doing my own programme. That's a hospital pass if ever there was one. I've got a feeling we won't have our largest ever audience tonight. I think people may be distracted. So that's what I'll be doing and therefore I will be wearing it suited and booted in the normal way. Have you ever considered wearing a football shirt in your entire life? I suppose as a child I had to play football occasionally. I was extraordinarily bad at it. What position did you play in? Wherever they couldn't find anyone who was any good at it to go, if you know what I mean. Right at the back. I was one of those boys who when they were selecting the two teams from you all lined up, I was one of the last two to be chosen.

1:54If only they were selecting a chess team. No, I'm not that good at chess. I'm not Rachel Reeves. What were you good at at school? Very little. Maths? Not particularly, no. I got better as I went on. RE. I was all right at Divinity, yes. Divinity. Right, I shall be watching at my local pub. Will you be wearing a football shirt? I don't actually have a football shirt that fits me. The kids have got one, but I do wear red and white. OK. So you'll be dressed like the flag. I'm just feeling nervous already. This is disturbing, Jacob. We need to calm the nerves. Maybe you, can you, I'll tell you what you can do before State of the Nation.

2:31Can you go over to Westminster Cathedral and say a prayer? Say a prayer for Harry Kane and Jude Bellingham, please. Well, actually, that's on the way back from these studios, so I could possibly pop in. It's just a thought. But God is an Englishman, as we all know. But God sometimes wants to test us, so you can't rely on God. And England, of course, is Our Lady's Diary, given as Our Lady's Diary by Richard II and never taken away. So we've got both Our Lady and God himself on side. Well, God should be on our side, because the last time we had a critical match against Argentina, Maradona had the hand of God on his side.

3:10My hand, O God, hath guided thy flock from age to age. But unfortunately, it was a wrong guidance on that occasion. But at least God let us win the Falkland Islands. So we've got to take these things in perspective. Well, we do, and we wish the England team all the very best for later. In the meantime, the small matter of Keir Starmer's last hurrah at the despatch box, which was actually quite moving. Do we think that the death of Anne Widdicombe has had an impact on proceedings today, which, let's be honest, were more respectful than I think I've ever seen them? Yes, to an extent. I think that Kemme Baden-Ogge realised that this was not the occasion for Yabu Saks.

3:51And I think that would always have been the case, that Sir Keir Starmer is not a bad man, which will infuriate most of our viewers who, whenever I say things like that, say, no, no, I'm just a silly old fool who thinks nicely of everybody. But he is not a fundamentally bad man at all. He is a decent man who's tried to do a good job and hasn't succeeded to have really gone for him at the end of his prime ministership, probably the end of his political career, would have been brutal and unnecessary, and I would suggest un-English. Yes. That there is a tendency of the British to be generous to people in defeat, not to kick a man when he's down.

4:34Kirsten Armoury's clearly down. But on top of that, Anne Whittacombe's death has made people realise that all politicians suffer from a much greater level of threat than we had previously realised. Yes. There is a danger out there, and perhaps we need to be a bit nicer about each other to try and calm things down so that people don't get so emotional that they then actually want to kill people. It should be noted that the preface to all this was Zia Youssef, who is Reform's Home Affairs spokesman, wants to be the next Home Secretary, giving a very, actually very difficult press conference at their HQ in Milbank earlier in which he basically detailed the ways in which Anne Widdecombe had been criticised in life.

5:19And, of course, he wasn't trying to speculate as to motive because a 28-year-old remains in custody following her killing. But he just wanted to make the point that parliamentarians on all sides really should start minding their language. Let me start with the most prominent. And it's incredibly difficult to repeat these words that have been said of our late friend, our late treasurer, Anne. but we cannot ever allow this to happen again, and so I must. David Lammy, now the Deputy Prime Minister, described Anne as a, quote, poisonous bigot who wants to, quote, drag us back to the 19th century and, quote, throw minorities out in the cold on the way.

6:10He boldly declared, quote, we must stand up to them before it's too late. before it's too late. Wes Streeting, until recently the health secretary, said, quote, if only science had a cure for Anne Widdicombe. A woman on Twitter said, quote, Anne Widdicombe better go this week. She is a little fascist beast. This woman happens to have been until just a few months ago the Minister for Safeguarding and Violence Against Women and Girls, Jess Phillips. Also, and he himself admitted it had been difficult to put the speech together because it had required him to look through a load of horrific social media trolling against his own colleagues, and he revealed this about Sarah Pochin, who is the relatively newly elected MP for Runcorn.

7:07During the Runcorn and Helmsby by-election, Sarah Pochin's office was subjected to at least nine incidents including Nazi stickers placed on the building eggs thrown at the door threatening visits from members of the public and an Antifa presence two days before polling day Since her election multiple specific online threats have been passed to police The most serious current threat comes from militant transgender activist group Bash Back that has a published direct action guide explicitly targeting MPs who speak on gender issues. The guide instructs supporters to identify targets and, quote, hit repeatedly until they desist.

7:54Hit repeatedly until they desist. So we have that context in the background, which might make some a little bit cynical about some of the tributes that were paid in the House of Commons to Anne Whittacombe by some on the left when you consider everything that they had said about her in the past. But no matter, I thought the Prime Minister's own tribute seemed genuine and heartfelt. I must start by saying I'm truly horrified by the murder of Anne Whittacombe. She was a distinguished politician with deep convictions whose vivid and fearless character captured the public imagination. My heartfelt condolences go out to all of her friends and all of her loved ones.

8:41Mr Speaker, it is chilling that during my time in this Parliament, 11 years, three serving or former MPs have been murdered. I look across at the shield for our dear friend Joe Cox and the shield for Sir David Amess that sits behind me. Mr Speaker, I know this is a House matter so this is my personal view but I do believe it would be fitting for the House to consider a similar tribute to Anne I think the Prime Minister has behaved extraordinarily well over this from the moment the tragic news broke he's behaved in a properly Prime Ministerial way I thought Kemi's tribute was beautifully done I was very pleased that she referred to Anne as being part of the Conservative family that on occasions like this, whether people are reform or members of the Tory party is neither here nor there, Anne was fundamentally a conservative person.

9:38And I thought with her earlier tribute and with this one in the House of Commons, she got the tone absolutely right and she managed to move, which is difficult, from talking about Anne and making tribute to her into the body of Prime Minister's questions seamlessly, which is quite hard to do because you're obviously changing gears and changing tone. and I thought she did that with great grace. This is the first opportunity I've had on the floor of the house to commemorate her life. A lot has been said about how she died. I want to focus on celebrating the life she lived. She was a woman of high principle, profound beliefs with a wicked sense of humour, a wonderful combination of being a serious person who did not take herself too seriously.

10:26She changed her faith from Anglican to Catholic and from the Conservative Party to the Brexit Party, but she always remained part of the Conservative family. You may not always have agreed with her, but Anne Whittacombe was a woman who said what she meant and meant what she said. Hers was an honesty that made our politics better. Her wit and forthrightness sat alongside a deep humanity and decency. She had wonderful turns of phrase. She said, we need less political correctness and more political courage. She said, if we deny our culture, become nothing and everything, that weakens us. And finally, Mr Speaker, she also said, it is a truth universally unacknowledged at Westminster.

11:19that there is life after politics. So with that in mind, I turn to this Prime Minister's final questions. Mr Speaker, this morning I have meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in this House, I have an important appointment with the television at 8 o 'clock this evening. All of it was kicked off, pardon the pun, by the Tory MP Graham Stewart, who actually articulated very well the atmosphere in the House. Yes, of course, there is partisanship. Yes, of course, the left and right are usually at each other's throats. But when it's a sayonara to a Prime Minister, there is a certain need for good conduct, and I thought he exemplified that in saying this at the very beginning of the session.

12:00May I associate myself with the Prime Minister's remarks about Anne Whittacombe, take this opportunity to thank him for his public service and wish him and his family all the best for the future. Most of us, Mr Speaker, can only dream of playing the role of Jude Bellingham, scoring the winning goal, leading our team to victory. Yet the Prime Minister did it. But politics, like football, is a ruthless game. And he's now been handed a red card by the 400 dodgy referees. LAUGHTER

12:42What advice, Mr Speaker, does this Prime Minister have for the right honourable member for Makerfield to ensure that he, unlike himself, doesn't end up with an early bath. I was just going to say on Graham, who I worked with and I know well and therefore I'm sympathetic to, he just got the tone so right compared to Ed Davey, who was so leaden. So Graham had an analogy that he worked through and was funny and was light, and then Davey got on to his Buzz Lightyear analogy, which was a tonne of lead. Let's just listen to it, and we do apologise in advance because you're going to be groaning by the end.

13:20Mr Speaker, as the Prime Minister finds himself with more time on his hands, can I recommend the new Toy Story film? For those of you who don't know Toy Story, its main character used to be in law enforcement, but was mainly known for being a little wooden, but was replaced by a shiny new action figure from far away who thinks he can fly and the name Andy on everyone's lips. Perhaps, Mr Speaker, maybe the Prime Minister should give that a miss. But does he share my fear that when it comes to Britain's national debt, the right honourable member for Makerfield's plan is to infinity and beyond? Kemi, very clever to point out that the last Labour Prime Minister to be in power in 1966 when we last won the World Cup.

14:14I mean, I love the nature of this historic anniversary. If we actually pull it off tonight and on Sunday night, Jacob, fingers and toes crossed, was, of course, Keir Starmer's hero, Harold Wilson. No doubt he will be disappointed that he won't be emulating his hero, Harold Wilson, in winning multiple elections. However, we all hope that he may be about to emulate him in another way, by being the Prime Minister when England win the World Cup. That is something that every single one of us in this house should get behind, especially the SNP. Harold Wilson was my hero when I was a six-year-old, but I grew out of it.

14:52Were you once a lefty, Jacob? Stop the press. What? Harold Wilson didn't live in Downing Street for his last two years as Prime Minister. He lived in Lord North Street, and my family was living in Smith Square, which was just by Lord North Street, and it was really rather exciting to have the Prime Minister living half a street away and I thought he must be rather a good thing. Also, Nanny told me that Labour Party would give money to the poor and as a five, six-year-old I thought I was poor. I never got any money out of Labour Party so I soon realised that they don't stick to their promises. What an insight on this momentous day.

15:27The day has just become even more significant, everybody. There were these exchanges obviously about that but I think what Baden-Ock was also trying to do and it was almost a favour to Keir Starmer, is to point out the lack of scrutiny that is currently being invited by Andy Burnham, his successor. Now, she asked a very clever question, which left us wondering which parliamentarian she was actually referring to. If you want to lead this country, you should set out your plans to do so. We have. But one politician intends to spend the summer avoiding scrutiny, refusing to set out his plans. So does he not agree that what the country deserves is a televised debate between Nigel Farage and Count Binfist?

16:12Is it a problem that Nigel Farage as well as Andy Burnham weren't there today? These are the two men of the moment. I huffed and puffed when people said, where is he in regard to Nigel? Was it in regard to Nigel or Burnham? It could have been both. I think it was in regards to Nigel because Nigel can't be there. He's not an MP at the moment. That's right. He's resigned his seat. where he hasn't taken the manor that means he has an office of profit under the crown. So he can't be there. It seemed to be directed at Nigel because the question was directed at Nigel. Was Burnham there or not there?

16:44No, I don't think Burnham was there. Having previously, so the night before, he was suited and booted. He looks extraordinary in his shirt and tie, by the way, because we're so used to him dressing like Ricky Gervais at a gig at the comedy store that he was there yesterday to face some questions because he wanted to speak on Hillsborough and the Hillsborough law being introduced. But the point that the leader of the opposition is trying to make is we're all going to break up at the end of the week. This is the last PMQs. We've got Friday where he's announced as the new Labour leader and Monday where he goes and sees the king and becomes the next prime minister.

17:16And by the way, this podcast, The Daily Tea, Tim will be back with me and we will be in Downing Street for a special edition on Monday. She's making the point that he's not faced really any proper parliamentary scrutiny about his policies, his platform, whether he's got a mandate. and from a press perspective, he's also avoided scrupulously questioning by journalists. Yes, he has. It was absolutely extraordinary. There's been no leadership campaign. There's been no expression of policies. There's no idea what he wants to do or he wants to do it with. Rachel Reeves was looking a bit glum, so you may think...

17:46Rachel Reeves looked as if she was close to tears again. She did again, didn't she? Is she all right? I feel sorry for her. I think this has been very tough for her and if she thinks she's losing her job as well, she looked very upset throughout. She was so prominent because she was seated to, as we face the telly, the Prime Minister's right. And so the camera was constantly on her and Keir Starmer. And it looked to me as if she was welling up a bit. But it's an emotional day, I guess. And it's been an emotional few days. Richard Tice was extremely emotional with us yesterday. And we can understand that.

18:23Nirav Modi was a billionaire diamond tycoon whose jewellery was worn by Hollywood stars like Kate Winslet. But in 2018, he was accused of masterminding one of the world's biggest ever bank frauds, and he disappeared. This is the extraordinary story of the rise and fall of Nirav Modi and of how we caught him. He was in the news all the time. Where is Nirav Modi? Why can we not find him? He's one of the most sought-after criminals in India. You owe a lot of people a lot of money, Mr Modi, who would very much like to know where you are. Sorry, no comment. The Indians will think we're a laughingstock.

19:04Here we are seven years later still speaking about this case. They think it's a sham. The Diamond King, a new podcast from The Telegraph. With me, Mick Brown. And me, Robert Mendick. Out now.

19:24Kemi Badenoch did try and keep on asking, as did other MPs actually, whether the Prime Minister had any advice whatsoever for his successor. And he did come up with a very good line. Mr Speaker, I will give my wholehearted support to my successor. I want this Labour government to be a success. I want our country to be a success. I shall give my support privately if asked for, not publicly when not asked for. Do we think that's him having a go at the likes of Tony Blair, by the way? Well, you probably weren't born when Margaret Thatcher said when John Major became Prime Minister that she would be a very good backseat driver.

20:06I was born in 1978, so I was there for the whole of Thatcher's reign. She informed my very being. I was practically born in a twin set in pearls. You know this, Jacob. Very reassuring. And I was born in double-breasted suit, as everybody knows. Of course. But there is a tendency for prime ministers to be backseat drivers and to get in the way. Ted Heath did it to her. Harold Macmillan did it a bit to her. She certainly did it to John Major. Blair was lucky because there was no former significant Labour leader around who'd been prime minister. But Blair's definitely done it. Major's done it on Brexit.

20:45Well, nobody takes any notice of him, so it doesn't really matter. Lord Heseltine, although he was never prime minister, much to his shagra. He was never prime minister. He'd have done it very elegantly, but I don't think very well. So it does happen. And they often leave saying we're not going to interfere. And then they interfere because it comes too tempting. They see mistakes being made. I doubt Sakhir will interfere in the early days. In the early days. But he might not be able to resist it if Burnham suddenly starts unpicking everything he's done in office. To be fair to the leader of the Conservatives, she had her own advice for the Prime Minister.

21:20I say this to Labour MPs with as much goodwill as I can muster.

21:29We have been where you are. Changing Prime Minister is not a silver bullet. Indeed, it may be that the Labour Party's troubles are only just beginning. Solving the fundamental problems in this country will require difficult decisions. And you also need to know how to get things done. And she asked a quite Faragean question in whether actually there was any point in being Prime Minister when you pull on a lever and nothing really happens. The Prime Minister once said that when he pulled the levers, nothing happened. Why did he think that was? Minister. Mr Speaker, we did pull the levers. We pulled the levers to stabilise the economy, and we've stabilised the economy.

22:16We pulled the levers to strengthen our public services and NHS waiting lists are coming down at the fastest rate for 17 years. We pulled a big lever on child poverty, and this government will be doing more on child poverty than any government ever, including previous Labour governments. I just want to say that was her fundamental question. Why, when you pull the lever, does nothing happen? Boris complained about that. Starmer's complained about that. We have a dysfunction in the British state. And this isn't the blob or the deep state or any of these conspiracy theories. It's just we've structured things in such a way that democratic authority doesn't run through the system.

22:52And there are too many obstacles to getting things done. Almost any decision of any degree of controversy goes through judicial review. You end up replacing judges' opinions with ministers' opinions. And I would prefer to have ministers' opinions. Why? Why? Because I can vote them out. And these are essentially political things rather than legal things. And we need a change constitutionally to get back to an ability of those who are elected to govern to govern. So interestingly, then, we have the leader of the opposition, the leader of reform and actually the new prime minister all saying the same thing, because Andy Burnham's one and only speech very much focused on trying to break up Whitehall's stronghold in order to execute his devolution plan.

23:34Which is very important because I think one of the reasons Sikir didn't work, didn't succeed, is that he thought there was a Rolls-Royce civil service that would swing into action when he got elected, but hadn't worked with a dreadful lot of Tory ministers who didn't respect officials and didn't want to listen to their advice. I think the Labour project under him assumed that working with the civil service, who they liked and felt culturally assimilated with, would mean that all of those sorts of problems were solved. And then they found that wasn't the case because of what I found with civil servants, not that they were normally directly obstructive, though they sometimes were, but because they came and said, Minister, you can't do that.

24:18It's against the law. Yes. And to change the civil service and get it to work for you, you need to change the law before you start thinking about changing the civil service. Exactly the same with Ollie Robbins. Ollie Robbins was following the law. Yes. And that was very frustrating for the prime minister. And now he's threatening to sue or he's planning to sue. He's going to sue. He's bringing a judicial review. Because he feels he's been unfairly dismissed over the whole Peter Mandelson vetting saga. Yes, that's a really good point. Because previously, the Liz Trussian argument would have been, they're all avid lefties.

24:50They're trying to block us because we're being right wing about our policies. And actually, Starmer's encountered the exact same problem. It doesn't matter what their ideology is. This is about kind of blocking. So at the end of the day, Burnham's going to get the wake up call of his life, isn't he? As he tries to bring about these glamorous plans to bring Manchesterism to Westminster. Good luck with that. He's going to have to legislate, but to legislate takes time and he hasn't got a programme. He hasn't got it into legal instruction to pass to Parliamentary Council to write the laws that are necessary to give the power back.

25:23It's an unthought-through project. There was a very lovely moment at the end where Kemi Badenoch decided to ask this as her final question. This is my last exchange with the right honourable gentleman, and I know how much his wife and children mean to him, and that they are in the gallery today. As everyone here knows, our families make a huge sacrifice for our choice to enter public life. So I hope he will allow me to draw our time together to a close by thanking them for the love and support they have given him throughout his time in office. Can I thank her very much for that? It is the last question I'll face from the leader of the opposition.

26:10and so let me wish her well and her family. We have had robust exchanges across this dispatch box but she has extended kindness to me privately at very difficult times including when there was an attempt to burn down our family home which deeply affected my family. She reached out to me and when my brother died of cancer she reached out to me privately not across this dispatch box And I thank her for that and the tribute that she's just made to my wife and children who mean the world to me. I do thank her for that. She knows this is robust and it has to be robust. And that's the way politics is done.

26:50But the kindnesses that sit behind it privately are often just as powerful, if not more powerful. And I thank her for that. I also stood at that dispatch box, Mr. Speaker, for four years as leader of the opposition. I know firsthand it's the most difficult job in politics. And that is what she is doing. Now, that was a moment where it was actually quite nice to mention that Victoria and the children were sitting in the public gallery. However, as we were watching this together, you were moaning and groaning about repeated references to the gallery. Why? It's disorderly. It's quite clear from Erskine May that you're not...

27:24When people hear the word disorderly, they think that people are marauding around the Commons. You mean it's disorderly conduct. It is against the rules of debate in the House of Commons to refer to the gallery for a very sensible reason. for the same reason as it's disorderly to clap rather than to go here, here. It's disorderly because it wastes time and it also becomes very mawkish when it's done too much. And if you allow references to the gallery, every MP will start saying, I'm so pleased my constituent Mr. Miggins or Mrs. Miggins is up there. She makes the most delicious pies. And this distracts from the purpose of the House of Commons, which is to debate the important issues of the day.

28:09And it seemed to me that this practice should be strictly reinforced. It started going wrong under John Bercow and Lindsay Hall has allowed it to continue and it should stop. It's not good for debate in the House of Commons. It's time-wasting. Can I put it to you, my lord, that there was nothing more disorderly than you lounging about on those front benches and falling asleep? My dear old thing, that was perfectly orderly. and traditional. If you look at pictures from the Edwardian era, you will see that in the spy cartoons and things like that, you'll see that's exactly how ministers sat in the House of Commons.

28:46How are we going to reflect then, Jacob, on two years of Keir Starmer? He's bragged at the dispatch box that he's left the country in a better state than he found it in. I'm not sure I agree with that analysis. Admittedly, we had the calamitous economic fallout from the mini budget, and I don't think we can get away from that. But I don't think we're taken more seriously on the international stage. I don't think our economy feels more stable. Unemployment's at a record high, particularly among young people. The welfare bill is far too high. He's flip-flopped and prevaricated. If only he showed the dogged determination at the beginning of his premiership that he showed at the end, we might be in a better position.

29:25I think the history books will write up his legacy. Sorry, I know it's horrible to kick a man while he's down, but this is just, it'll be sort of 17 U-turns and 30 resets. That picture of him in a power stance on the front of the manifesto saying change now couldn't look more ridiculous. I mean, change, the change that the Labour Party have called for is of you. What a disaster. Well, I'm afraid I don't think the history books will write about this premiership at all. Oh. I think it will pass unnoticed. It will be covered over by other premierships and more interesting things. Do you remember Lord Aberdeen?

30:04Does his name jump out at you? No. No, I didn't think he would. Mid-19th century Prime Minister, beginning of the Crimean War, not very successful. Liz Truss? Well, Liz will not. Liz will be remembered because she was so short-serving. It gives her place in history. She's like the Lady Jane Grey of politics. Lord Wilmington, does he jump out at you? Sounds like a hardware store in Yorkshire. Well, it's a city in Delaware, as it happens as well. but he was the successor to Walpole. There are prime ministers who just get utterly forgotten by history. And I'm sorry to say it's a bit mean on the day he goes, that Secure Starman is going to be one of those, that the economy has been trending down.

30:45The Treasury statistics are bad. The deficit is too high. The debt is too big. Guilt yields have gone up again in the last week above 5%. It's a pretty miserable economic outlook. The state is not functioning properly. And I think our status on the world stage has declined in spite of his many, many dozens of visits abroad. So there's nothing really good to be remembered for. But I think this will be a premiership that just gets passed over. It wasn't so short that it'll be remembered for its shortness. He didn't have doesn't have the charisma of Boris to be remembered for that. He doesn't have a big thing like Brexit to have done.

31:24So in more modern times, Kirsten Stammer, Theresa May, Sir Alec Douglas Hume, prime ministerships that people just don't remember. What do we think he might do next? He remains an MP, he goes to the back benches. We've seen previous MPs do that, Rishi Sunak most notably in recent times. Does he, I mean, he was lined up or he was being suggested as the next director general of NATO. Not sure how that would go down with Donald Trump, but maybe he's only a problem for the next two years, so that's fine. Does he stand again, I wonder? NATO is quite an interesting idea that the last Labour figure to be Secretary General of NATO, Lord Robertson, did it with distinction and is widely admired for what he did at that point and for his defence review.

32:10So that's not a stupid idea. Would Burnham do a Cameron and ask him to be Foreign Secretary? Because he's got all those relationships. Yes. It's not a stupid thing to do because if Burnham were to ask him to do that, then Burnham can concentrate on domestic politics because he'd have somebody who really knew the international scene dealing with it. All this travelling by prime ministers is disastrous because it distracts them from the day job. I know, but Keir Starmer was never here, Keir, precisely because he didn't want to face the domestic music, right? Up to a point. I think, look, dare I say that was the attack line that it made sense to use if you were a Conservative politician or a Labour prime minister who's always away.

32:51But what did he go to voluntarily? He couldn't not go to the G7. He couldn't not go to NATO summits. He couldn't not go and visit the President of the United States or go to Ukraine or go to the Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting. There are things that just clog up a Prime Minister's diary unless he's got a very senior foreign secretary who will be accepted on the world stage. Also accepted by Donald Trump. Also accepted by Donald Trump. Because better the devil you know, right? Because I get this impression of little Andy Burnham going over to the Oval Office and literally being chewed up and spat out within seconds.

33:27He can blame any problems with the special relationship. Sorry to be cynical, but politicians are cravenly self-interested. If anything goes wrong there, he can just blame Starmer. Yeah, that's right. That's absolutely right. And then he can concentrate on domestic politics. Now, I doubt he will do this, but it wouldn't be a stupid thing to do. In the absence of Secretary-Generalship or Foreign Secretary, I assume he will stay on the backbench until the end of the Parliament and then leave the House of Commons and possibly go to the Lords or something like that. That is what a lot of PMs do. Of course, if he becomes Secretary-General, there'd have to be a by-election.

34:02He'd have to leave the House of Commons. And if he could do David Cameron and leave after a few months, he said he will stay at the end of Parliament. and Rishi very neighbourly is carrying on. I'm not at all surprised. I always thought Rishi, I didn't agree with him on everything, but was fundamentally a patriotic man and would serve his constituents for the rest of the Parliament, which he is doing. It wouldn't surprise me if Starmer did the same if none of those jobs came off. He got a standing ovation at the end of PMQs today. Disorderly or merited? Desperately sentimental. we're so ridiculous as a nation we fire somebody and then we praise them on the day they're fired as the most wonderful people on earth well if they were so wonderful why did we fire them?

34:50I know but I'll tell you something that I am predicting for later if England beat Argentina I think even one Jacob Rees-Mogg might stand and at least give a standing ovation I can't see you punching the air singing Ole Ole Ole even singing Sweet Caroline Hey Jude or Wonderwall are you familiar with those tunes? I like to be a busy, busy bee. Oh, what a glorious thing to be. A grown-up, healthy, busy, busy bee. Or a froggy with a wooing go, if we want to name random songs. Football Chants by Jacob Rees-Mogg, everybody. You might not be familiar with them, but there they are. Arthur Askey, I'd like to be a busy, busy bee.

35:28Anyway, I think that winning against Argentina counts as a double century at Lourdes. Yes. And a double-centric lord deserves a standing ovation. We await that eagerly later. Come on, England. Please, please, please win this match. Actually, there's a much better song. Go on. The English, the English, the English are best. I couldn't give tuppence for all of the rest by Flanders and Swan. It is so deeply politically incorrect that I think it even might make you blush. All right. And Jacob Rees-Mogg's greatest hits will be available on Telegraph Music at some point for Christmas. Everybody, once again, come on Harry Kane, come on Jude Bellingham.

36:11We want to bring great news to the podcast tomorrow when Jacob and I will be back, hopefully dressed in England flags, 5pm.

36:29Thank you.