Burnham’s blundering PMQs return: a gaffe fest that will come back to haunt him

0:03The Telegraph. It's a bingo. Gaff-laden and long-winded, it seems that Andy Burnham forgot to have his second coffee before today's PMQs, in which he made a series of clunky mistakes. He doubled down on his Russian interference claims and stumbled through his anti-Greens deal stance. So are we about to see a bout-turn Burnham strike again? The Andy Burnham style is parish council. And what you do, it's as if an angry resident had shown up and has started mouthing off about their mother and the parking. And so you begin by saying, I hear your complaint and that's happened to me too. And I want to reassure you that we're going to look into it.

0:47What it does not have is the cut and thrust of parliamentary questions. Tim, you're back with a flourish and an exceptionally nice tie. Do you know ties are back in? Are they? We did a piece on The Telegraph. My son is loving wearing ties now. He's a sixth former. I've decided now it's autumn. I'm going to go preppy. What do you mean, you're going to go preppy? I've just been looking at the Ralph Lauren catalogue and drooling. I love the idea that you don't think you were preppy before autumn. You've always been preppy. Since I first knew you, you were preppy. And you continue to be preppy. Today for PMQs, I brought a friend along.

1:18Yes. Father Chris Morris, who's watching us right now. He is a Catholic priest. I'm not a genuflect. When we were in the... I know, I thought it might have an effect. We'll see. Well, we had the late night with Jacob Rees-Mogg conversion to Rome attempt one. Oh, really? We've got you just in general in the background. You've got my father who's constantly trying to pull the strings. Well, whenever I travel, I try and bring a priest with me just in case I need one. While we were in the queue for PMQs, a lady standing behind said, are you a journalist? And I said, yes, it's Muggins here. and she said, is your name Robert?

1:53Oh no. And I said, do you think I'm Rob Peston? Yes. I said, I'm considerably better looking than that, madam. Also, you don't punctuate all of your sentences with... I'm dressed, I think, like a cross between Dr. No and spotty, super head sidekick. This collar... My children looked at me this morning and went, what are you doing? But we're going to start a little fashion sideline on our YouTube membership where we're just going to celebrate the fashion of each other. Yes. Because sometimes it's spectacular, sometimes less so, but also our team, by the way. I love this. It's as if Bowdoin did straight jackets.

2:30That's it. That's what it is. By the way, we need one because joining you in the annals of hard right history as a wet liberal simply because you're not a racist is now me and Jacob for also expressing that we weren't racist either. So as somebody did point out an ex, and I did send this to you, Soon we'll be having people trying to persuade us that Hitler was actually a wet liberal because he didn't support Rupert Lowe. So there you have it. That's what you've missed. Oh, and you've missed. Can we just briefly discuss this? You know, the girl that's covering or has replaced Caroline Leavitt in the White House has had a shocker, not quite CJ from West Wing.

3:09It's all gone wrong. At the same time that Trump has done this really with the tiger. It's not right, is it? It's not right that a poor chap who is clearly not of his right mind going into that tiger enclosure to then have the US president. Trump made a video in which he goes into the enclosure and he wrestles with the tiger and then tickles it. It's incredibly tasteless. But as for the new press secretary, I don't think Miss Alabama will last very long. She does look as though she's won a prize. I'm surprised she doesn't come out in a tiara with a bunch of flowers. Well, she's won something from Trump.

3:43I can't think why Trump chose her. She took three questions, all from friendly outlets. I mean, it's just embarrassing. And you do wonder, Trump himself must be embarrassed by this. We know that in the past he has got angry with how people have let him down. So why does he keep making the appointments? I'm not sure. Can't think why. Talking about heavily mascaraed people at lecterns, PMQs, how was it for you? Because it was so plodding at one point the speaker, Lindsay Hoyle, had to say, can you get on with it? Yes. We've got to get through all the questions. Yes. Well, the Andy Burnham style is parish council.

4:21And what you do, it's as if an angry resident had shown up and has started mouthing off about their mother and the parking. Yes. And so you begin by saying, I hear your complaint and that's happened to me too. And I want to reassure you that we're going to look into it. What it does not have is the cut and thrust of parliamentary questions. No, it's got review being carried out by Louise Casey all over it, hasn't it? Yes. Push that forward. We'll get back to you in a couple of months, maybe years about that. Thank you so much for your question. Yes. Well, he made the tough choices at conference.

4:55You remember that when he promised to spend more, regulate more and nationalise things and go back into the EU. He finally said what needs to be said at great personal risk to himself. Yes, indeed. As far as his backbenchers are concerned, she was absolutely right to be laser focused on this bizarre about turn over Russian interference. Let's just hear her put that to the prime minister. Mr. Speaker, the prime minister has had a busy few weeks tying himself in knots, explaining why national security shouldn't come at the expense of social security, bumbling into a row still ongoing about Manchester City.

5:31And I don't think his carefully worded answer to my honourable friend is going to suffice. It doesn't sound like that one's going away. And he spent the last 48 hours trying to unsay that Russia influenced the 2016 referendum when we all heard him say it. Does he ever get tired of putting his foot in his mouth?

5:58Mr Speaker, I am glad that she's raised my comments because it gives me an opportunity to say to the whole House how I intend to lead this country. We have lived through a decade of division And we know that hostile actors have been seeking to interfere in our democratic process. That is a matter of fact. We need to call that out and look straight at it in a way that the party opposite didn't do. I have a quote here from the right honourable lady. when she stood at this dispatch box, when she was responsible for steering through the elections bill, and she said this right here, I have not read the Russia report.

6:55It's because they didn't want to see it. They wanted to look in the other direction. I won't do that, Mr Speaker. I will draw a line. I've seen you and Jacob talk about this. I do find it really offensive. the idea that my vote was changed by a Russian bot in 2016, that I'm so simplistic that I couldn't understand the complex issues of sovereignty or free movement. That's right. But the moment that a big-chested Russian woman popped up on my computer and said, Vod leave! My mind was made up. Also, I love this idea that were the Russians involved in the Maastricht rebellion of 1992? Yes. Before the advent, I think, of the internet or indeed even Tame Berners-Lee contemplating that there could be such a thing as the World Wide Web.

7:43But there were rumours that they were involved in the 2014 Scottish independence referendum. Now, it makes perfect sense that they should wish to get involved in every election because that's what Russia does. It spreads disinformation. It's up to the voters to sift through it. But if you had said to any nationalist in Scotland you voted because the Russians were in favour of it for whatever complex reasons they might have, I just think that's nonsense, isn't it? Well, also, how can Andy Burnham do the whole kind of flat cap stroke bucket hat wearing man of the people act and turn around to his constituents in Makerfield who voted 65 percent leave and said they only did it because, you know, a Russian told them to do it?

8:22It's hardly down with the kids, is it? The implication is they are stupid. And if we've learned one thing since Brexit, which the Labour Party has not learned, it's that if you try and persuade people that they made a mistake, they double down. Yes. Rightly or wrongly. It's the same with the Trump effect in 2016. If you spend the next four years trying to impeach him, I mean, of course, he then did lose 2020, but he came back because if you try and tell people you should never have voted for this man, it was an accident, it was a mistake, and you weren't thinking right, maybe you were drunk or maybe you're just moronic, that actually makes them double down on their first choice.

8:56So I think it's politically stupid as well. So he doubled down on that. But the key thing is he hadn't thought it through. No. The key thing is he said something without thinking it through. And this is the pattern of Andy Burnham, because we'll come back to Kimmy in a moment, but he did it again, twice in this PMQs. Yes. Once when talking about the murder of Anne Whittacombe, in which he phrased it so as to imply, as we're not allowed to do, that the person being investigated is definitely the culprit. Yeah, he might be covered by a degree of parliamentary privilege on that, but it's still technically contempt.

9:33Yes, but the more significant political one was when he was asked directly by Tory MP Harriet Baldwin about the Greens-Zionism motion at their conference, where the conference voted to say that Zionism is racism. And he was asked, would you rule out having the Greens in your coalition? And he appeared to say yes. The leader of the opposition has made it crystal clear about doing deals with other parties. So will the Prime Minister make it equally clear following the Green Party's dissent into the most abhorrent anti-Semitism, that we will rule out cooperating with them. Mr Speaker, can I condemn the motion that was passed unequivocally?

10:20It is wrong, it is anti-Semitic, and this side of the House will have nothing to do with it, and we will always take the right response when it comes to any partnerships we have with other parties. We cannot support a partnership with a party that holds a position that has recently been adopted. Now, I predict within 24 hours, Camilla, he will roll back. Yeah, of course he will. And what he will say is, I was saying I would never be in a coalition with people who say that Zionism is racism. And that was said by the Green Party conference, not by its MPs, who have actually written a letter disavowing the motion.

11:00Well, they have now, although they probably incubated the motion for many, many months in refusing to call out the extremists in their midst. And now they're in this mess. So while I have some sympathy with Caroline Lucas, who is now being threatened with being deposed from the party that she helped to champion and get to where it is today, many have pointed out that all of this happened on her watch and she didn't point out the sheer lunacy of, for instance, the election of Motin Ali as deputy after he was associated with hounding a rabbi out of Leeds and celebrated October the 7th, then quickly deleted that glorification post.

11:34The same as Labour, you had a chance to say something, you didn't. So you've been hoist by your own petard there, unfortunately. Just on the whole doubling down, I mean, it is extraordinary from Burnham on the whole Russia situation to be doubling down in the face of his own foreign minister, his own security minister, and Ken McCullum, the unlikely looking head of MI5. Yes, Harry Potter grew up and became head of MI5. Or is he the long lost brother of Gareth Malone, the guy who does those choirs? It's very disappointing because you think they should always look like M. Yeah, they should look like M because of course, Dear Love and people like that, because they were bald and stuff.

12:12Plus, I'm listening to Horowitz's Bond, narrated by Matthew Goode in my ear right now on Audible. And therefore, I'm looking at Ken and I'm thinking, Yes. Also the name Ken. Yeah, I know. Whatever. I know. But good old Ken has come forward and said, this is absolute nonsense. What are you talking about? And by the way, Ken does seem to know his onions. And still the final strategy, one would hope so as head of MI5, and still the PM continues with this, what has been described as gaslighting of a nation, which was what happened under Starmer. So plus ça change. But there's a crude political strategy there, isn't there?

12:47which is to whip up the Remain voters to get them back supporting the Labour Party. Yes, OK. That's what it is. But don't you think, we were discussing this at lunch yesterday with several figures on the right, and we were trying to discuss whether people are so Remain-focused that they don't mind talk like Emily Thornberry on Newsnight, I believe it was last night, saying, oh, well, just get over it. I mean, we don't even need a second referendum. If we want to rejoin the EU, we just will. We'll put it in the manifesto and then the public can decide. If you vote for Labour, you're voting for re-entry into the whole Brussels machinery.

13:21And I thought, well, that's completely disingenuous. Emily said we are allies of Germany and... We always have been. Always have been. Yeah. And I think... Now, Emily's not a fool. You love Emily. I love Emily. Emily's no fool. I think we've just entered an era in which people just say stuff. Yeah. I don't think if anyone now feels any obligation towards accuracy whatsoever, They just say things because you might get called out and the embarrassment might be pointed out. You know, Stella, that isn't a parrot. It's a parakeet. Yes. But there is like 5 % is all you need of the population who thinks it is a parrot.

13:58Well, if you can say men and women and men, then you can say anything, right? I agree. That's the rubric on we've crossed. Well, I think that actually your traditional Red Wall Brexiteers will be furious by that kind of rhetoric. Any rolling over of democracy will be frowned upon. Then you look at the blue wallers. OK, you might have some ardent Romaniacs like Alistair Campbell and Roy Stewart, who love the cut of the prime minister's jib when he talks about Russian interference. But you have got a lot of very reasonable remainers that accepted the result and might think it's an aberration of, to use a better phrase, liberal democracy, if they're that way inclined, if they're yellows, and just think it's plain wrong to undo a once in a lifetime democratic mandate that was supported in a majority by 1.3 million people in the UK.

14:47I mean, some people might just turn around and say, you know, guys, just pointing out this might be the problem we've got right now with people's lack of faith in politicians. Because you come out with this abject hat stand, which has no grounding whatsoever. And by the way, with regard to rewriting manifestos, OK, good luck with that. But last time I checked the Labour one that's got Keir Starmer in a power pose on the front, it does say very, very clearly that this Labour Party will not rejoin the single market or customs union. Oh, by the way, say to people in blue, wool and red, we would like to get the immigration figures down.

15:24We'll proudly declare, as Andy Burnham did today, that small boat crossings are down and shouldn't we all rub our hands together with glee and then just give a green light to free movement of European people again? Oh, and by the way, let's re-litigate Northern Ireland, because that was such fun. The Windsor Framework. Let's go through those rows again. Yes, yes. Seriously, who wants any of this?

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16:28but at the same time as we've crossed this rubicon of you could now just say stuff i think we've also entered the politics of the early 20s by which i mean all the political parties are competing to hold a base that's around 20 to 25 percent yes no one's bothering to speak to a middle like we grew up in a world of blairs and camerons where everything was about triangulation and trying to figure out what does the mean voter want. They want me to love the NHS. I'll pretend I love the NHS in the case of Cameron. They want me to be tough on crime. I'll pretend I'm tough on crime in the case of Blair.

17:04Those conferences we've just been through, they all spoke to their base. Burnham was all about social care, Europe spending. Kemi was all about the middle classes, our inheritance tax, stamp duty, etc. Reform ended up in some bizarre row about whether or not you can be English. That's base talk if ever I've heard it, which, by the way, Zia Yusuf disagrees with too. Yeah, he's rode back on that on Sky News, hasn't he? Very strongly. And it's just it's curious. It was good, the Ashley Cole analogy, actually. I'm a massive Chelsea fan. And if anyone tells me that Ashley Cole isn't the best English defender has ever lived, then I don't want to carry on.

17:40All right, Zia. But either way, whatever you thought of the rights and wrongs of that particular debate, it was base talk. It's grassroots talk. It's talk in the pub with your mates. What it's not is general election, reach out to the middle. So I think it's a combination of no one needs to be accurate anymore and no one needs to reach out to a median voter anymore. So they're all just talking to their bases. And in the case of Greens, that means having wild motions about anti-Semitism. And in the case of Labour, because what matters in his, what's going through his head is, I've got to do a deal with Ed Davey, who stood up at this PMQs and said, may I just say how much I admire the prime minister's position on this?

18:16And he could have added, and the prime minister. And what a handsome, gorgeous man he is. Could we meet later? Maybe for a drink. Because it's kind of out of our hands now. But then, say if the Greens continue to tank, then of course that only really benefits Burnham. Then maybe this whole Brexit question is central to which side the Lib Dems pivot towards. I mean, I think we both know that if it was Tinder dating in the House of Commons, Right now, Ed Davey would be swiping right for Andy Burnham and left for Kemi Badenow, which is ironic because it's kind of anti-ideological. Yes. But you catch my drift.

18:53But at the same time, it does depend on how many moderates think that reversing the referendum result is an aberration or not, regardless of how they voted in that referendum, maybe. Well, put it this way, if there is going to be a Lib Lab coalition after the next election, because we're always debating how can you bring the right together? Well, if you're debating how can we bring the centre left together? There is one really easy way to do it. Second referendum. You've instantly got them on board and you just frame it as a democratic choice. We're not saying go into it. And if you put that out as your offer to the Lib Dems, they will vote through, they'll support you on everything else you do.

19:35Okay, fine. But at the same time, if the so-called bad boys of Brexit got back together and there was another vote leave campaign, then I think it would overwhelmingly win because of the conditions that would now be attached to membership. So that was all a bit foggy, wasn't it, after the Cameron reform deal? Now it literally is because we had a senior MEP confirming it at the weekend, ditched the pound, pay that 350 million a week back, accept all this on aggregate goods and everything else. The big one is immigration. So Emily Thornberry was on Newsnight and was saying, well, you wouldn't necessarily be a member of Schengen.

20:10And Nick Watt pointed out, no, but you would be a signatory to the Treaty of Rome. And one of the essential freedoms is freedom of movement. Yes. So you've got to have it. In other words, I just think it would be too controversial for most voters. But nonetheless, my point I come back to, I don't think the leaders of the parties right now are thinking about the voters. They're not thinking in terms of 52, 48. They're thinking in terms of 25, 25, 25. And what matters is I get my people out to support me at this next election. And then I do a deal with the person who's ideologically closest to me.

20:42And an obvious glue to that is a second referendum. Shall we just talk briefly about Nigel Farage's intervention? He did ask a question about Iran, but it did prompt a rare moment of conviviality from the prime minister. Can I start by recognising it's been a hard time for him and his family. There's a lot we disagree on, but I defend his right to say it. And I will work hard to secure his safety and every member of this house. And we will involve all sides in the Lovegrove review that my right honoured friend, the Home Secretary, has established. That's lovely to listen to, but it's disingenuous.

21:17Yes, they hate each other. I know. But he had also previously congratulated Kemi on her stance against racism in her conference speech. And he said, by so doing, you drew a line between yourself and the Reform Party. The implication being that the Reform Party is racist. So he's switching from saying reform are a bunch of fascists to you have my sympathy because people have been calling you such nasty words. And on that subject, I have in front of me a new game, which we're going to make available to our listeners and viewers to play at home. It is Burnham Bingo. Oh, wow. Okay, great. This is a shock to me.

21:58And you can play this every week at PMQs and holding it up. Big bingo card. And it has phrases like the North, mentions the 80s, fair deal, the B network, less points scoring, more problem solving. Does he reference Thatcher? Does he mention Oasis? Two pounds bus fare and mentions the 70s. Right. Your card's got different things on it. But so, for example, this week we could say he does indeed say less point scoring, more problem solving. So there you are. Yep, got that. That's a tick. He did mention the North. Great. Okay. I've got a tick there. Now, he said Manchester came up and I think that might be on your card.

22:40Yeah, look what we did in Manchester. Love that. There you are. That gets a tick. Do you have any other ones from today? I don't think he mentioned devolution, which is a rarity. did he say fair deal in any capacity whatsoever? I don't know. And was there any Thatcher bashing? There wasn't. Shame. So this week... This week isn't a great... So this week, neither of us scores bingo. We'll post it in our community section so that you can download, print out and play along. I mean, we can't say fairer than that. We might even get some customised Daily Tee bingo blobbing pens. Yes. And send them out to people who send us nice emails about your tie.

23:15There is also, and I mean this in the nicest way, there is a touch of the clickety-click 66 about Lindsay Hoyle, isn't there? There is a little bit. Can I just say that you are a closet game show host wannabe, if ever there was one. Yeah. You do wish at some point in your life to be hosting some kind of primetime show. I can just, I see it in you. Yeah, I do. If it's up there, I'll give you the money myself. It's what I've always wanted to do. Yeah, I think you'd be great at it. You know, at work experience, did they make you do a career advisory service thing at 16? Yes. Funny enough, I was told I should be a journalist.

23:49Can you believe it? Right. I've got that thing and, you know, it was a Morrisby test. That's right. I did the Morrisby. Yes. I was told I should be a journalist. I promptly forgot about it and did a law degree. Yeah. And then I discovered it about 10 years ago and went, oh, it was right all along. Do you know, I did that test. It came out on those old printers that had perforated edges. Do you know what it had as top? Makeup artist. I'm not making that up. Make-up artist in a boys' school in the 1990s. What did I say that got me make-up artist? It's your delicate little fingers. It's my delicate little fingers.

24:26But I went to see the careers advisory lady, a lovely lady called Mrs Errol, and she said, what do you want to do? And everyone else, of course, said banker like daddy, accountant like daddy, MP like daddy. And I put down, I'm the only person in the school in history who put down red coat. This doesn't surprise me either. She said, I'm really sorry. That's why I've called you in. We don't have any work placements at Butlins or Pontons that we can offer you. Yeah. So I was sent to the Observer newspaper instead. Well, I tell you what. Journalism was a second best. Slightly less fun, I would imagine.

24:59I could have been this generation's Joe Pasquale. Well, there's still time. Just to conclude then. So do we think, I mean, how did Kemi actually do? I was watching it. I thought she landed some good blows. she's doing quite well on X by the way people are kind of putting together little compendiums of her best moments at PMQs and she clips up well we have discussed this before about the opposition leader but if you were going to give it a kind of score out say if you were a Man City fan Tim as that did come up and I think the Prime Minister does have questions to answer about his beloved team and its funding and all the rest of it but put that aside because we're not a football podcast but in general what was the score today?

25:39I think she was a 5 or a 6 she was a little unfocused What do you mean 5-0? No, five or a six out of ten. No, I want you to give it a football score, like one nil to her. Oh, I see, between them and him. Can I just point out that one thing that Tim Stanley was not told at school was to join the football team or indeed to become a professional sportsman and continue. I think it's two all. Two all, is it? I don't think anyone particularly won. Her questions weren't quite as laser-like as they normally are, but then there wasn't the issue. There wasn't an issue of the week for her to focus on. but also he is like wrestling with mist i we i come back to what we said at the very beginning lindsey hoyle saying you've got to keep it shorter please keep it shorter uh it really is becoming a problem he does drag things out he doesn't speak in a parliamentary or a prime ministerial way um there's a lot of umings and ahs and that strange way he talks where he runs and goes back forth over the course of the sentence he also doesn't work with many notes sitting behind Behind him is his PPS, Sir Nick Dakin, a nice man who was in Parliament, then got kicked out and came back for Scunthorpe, and he was in charge of sentencing.

26:47That's gone well. I know. And it's said he's being kicked upstairs to be Burnham's PPS. And he's a sort of sweet, slightly doddery old chap. And you can see him occasionally leaning over and whispering to Burnham, well done, I think you did well. What notes is he passing? I think the notes just say things like, Kemi Badenoch is the leader of the British Conservative Party. Smile. mention£2 bus fare. Yeah, because Burnham has stopped using the notes after a while and he just starts leaning on the desk and talking to you as though you're recently bereaved. And I think there's just a bit too much of that.

27:20No, it's a bit schmaltzy. Final question. Is it a bit flirty? Is it a bit flirty, you think, between Burnham and Kenny? Well, I mean, the team had noticed a few kind of right honourables going in there. Yes. It's more respectful towards Badenot than Starmer ever was. Yes, it is. I think he's more of a charmer isn't he you can see him sidling up like if you're perhaps a travel lodge bar alone you know right well I'm just saying if you were going to compare Starmer and him right he might saunter over and have a chat with you over a little bowl of nuts yes wouldn't he whereas Starmer would be like I must strictly be in bed by eight yes you know he might come and have a chat yeah well I'd find him boring because I don't like football and I don't remember the 90s.

28:07But I do think Batenock has said he's very nice. And I think privately he's just very, very nice. Whereas Starmer was a little more reserved and difficult to deal with. So it's easier to be cutthroat with someone who is reserved than someone who probably does make the effort to say good morning and ask how you are and how your family is. But while all this has been going on, I feel the cat has slipped out of the bag, which is Ed Miliband has signed off on drilling around the Falkland Islands. Oh. Now, all the fuss that's been made about drilling in the North Sea. Yes, we've got to delay a decision, the optics, the optics.

28:47We need to make the transition. Yes. Oil and gas are not the future. And in fact, we're destroying our children's and their children's children's futures by doing it. But it's been signed off in the Falklands. Right. I don't, I just don't, I just, someone needs to explain that to me. I don't understand why in the Northern Hemisphere it's bad. Right. But in the Southern Hemisphere, it's absolutely fine. And of course, it's caused a diplomatic row with Argentina, which doesn't want the Brits to be doing that. I'm totally on our side on this, don't get me wrong, but I just find it very curious. Okay.

29:18Well, if anyone can see inside the mind of Ed Miliband, doesn't mind informing us of what he may or may not be thinking, then do send your theories in on the back of a five pound note. and Tim we will be back tomorrow 5pm