Burnham's Royal blunder: Hapless PM drags King into slavery row

0:04Camilla: The Telegraph.

0:09In 2010, newlyweds Debbie Cooper and Jamie Starbuck set off on a round-the-world honeymoon, but something wasn't right.

0:17Camilla: We kind of started to scrutinise things a lot more. What exactly is going on here? Debbie was missing. We just looked at each other and said, so what's the next step? And it's like, police. He was a lovely little boy, but something happened to him to turn him into a monster. There's nothing off her, he just erased her. Missing Debbie, a new Bed of Lies podcast from The Telegraph. Out now. Keen to please Andy Burnham blows up the King's Caribbean tour after saying he is open to slavery reparations. So when will the Prime Minister learn to keep his mouth shut? Britain and the people of Makerfield simply cannot afford to pay.

0:55The king is not going to apologise for slavery in a formal, official way. He cannot do that as a constitutional monarch. It's not his job. That is the job for the government. It's what the palace constantly says, refers back to government. So there are two issues for him, I think. The first one is that out here, although we understand at home that the government and the king are two totally different things, we understand that relationship and those responsibilities. Out here, it's much more that the king is just the face of Britain. You're back

1:25Camilla: I'm back From outer space Yes With a lot of tan on your face Do I look tanned? I'm eating Tenerife It was fun I love to see the little smile on your face at my return Did you miss me that much? It is a relief Is it? It is a profound The thing is I cannot do this job by myself Well also When the woman in any marriage Goes away for a pool Things do collapse in the man's life There is actually a big pile of dishes in the kitchen Waiting for you Is there? So I better start arning your shirts again Washing your suits Yeah, you came back and immediately made the news. Well, I made the news for a number of different reasons, including a bizarre interview with Robert Jenrick, where he seemed to be taking great offence at me asking him questions, even though I'm a journalist.

2:07Camilla: That's what he volunteers for when he comes on. But it was the interview with the Chief Secretary to the Treasury where she made this admission. So there was a debate about the previous budgets raised by Rachel Reeves breaching the manifesto because they put up national insurance for employers who could be classed as working people. And it's the same argument here, isn't it? If you raise income tax on rents and interests, you're actually raising income tax on landlords and savers. Landlords and savers are working people as well, aren't they? Well, firstly, let me say, I don't think employers are working people.

2:45Camilla: They are companies, which I didn't think she was going to say out loud. I do get that they're trying to fudge this whole we haven't breached the manifesto by suggesting that working people are effectively employees. But I didn't know she was going to spell out a Marxist vision for anyone that happens to employ anyone never having worked a day in their life. I wasn't anticipating that. So your small business owners, your pie makers like that chap Paul Bowen who went viral last week saying thanks to the budget I need to make 30 ,000 more pies a week. to, I don't know, anybody that employs anybody.

3:20Camilla: I mean, literally, our bosses, people in between, sole traders, plumbers, electricians, none of them work. I don't know why it reminds me of the South Park episode, Freak Strike, when all the people who go on chat shows with deformities form a union and go on strike and the police turn up to break them up. And the police say to them, now, now, we're not saying you're not a real union. We're saying you're not real people. And it's like that with employers. we're not we're not saying we're not saying that you don't contribute we're just saying you're not working indeed anyway it went viral and lots of people piled in on it and it got retweeted and many people enjoyed it uh meanwhile i was trolled by that lunatic whose name we won't mention because he's very odd um so it was just quite eventful it was an eventful return to blighty yes but thank god i'm back well you will have noticed two things there yes one that the right is now in a state of civil war.

4:13Yes. And it's getting nastier by the minute.

4:16Camilla: I know there are some on the right saying do you know what Hitler was a bit of a progressive because you're not a racist and therefore you are an ardent left winger. Yeah. And I ask reform some awkward questions and a question whether Restore have got supporters that are entirely savoury. But yeah. And apparently that makes me Polly Toynbee. But I think for a while when reform were clearly dominating in the polls, there was some order in the universe because everyone was just reconciled to Nigel Farage, who's going to be the next prime minister. But now the polls are close. So Reform and the Tories are competing with each other for the second place.

4:52And now that Restore is possibly going to deny Reform second place, let alone winning, it means there's more to play for, more to fight over. And it's hard not to notice that the war of words on the right has become nastier recently because what people are starting to say publicly and privately now is so whose side are you on yes and one thing they have to understand is here in the media generally but also on centre-right media we're not picking any side no you come to us and persuade us to vote for you yes we don't have to take the knee and support anyone at this stage because we're like all the other voters we're all trying to figure out what's the best thing to do at the next general election

5:29Camilla: also and it'll probably be decided by an app that's right by the way just reserved a right A tactical voting app. We just reserve the right to ask awkward questions only when we encounter something very much. Because when Generic was tearing your face off like a deranged monkey... I've got a new name for him. Robert Disenjeric. Because at the end of the day, I felt like saying, sorry, mate, you're doing this thing of like, oh, you're Kemmy's best friend and you're just part of the Tory party. There was only one of us in this interview that was ever a payback member of the Tories, an actual sitting MP.

5:57Camilla: And it's you, dude. And by the way, I remember when you were a lefty. I remember when you were voting for Remain and supporting Cameron's politics. And that was when I was writing for this newspaper and others. The trouble with the Conservatives is they've got people like Robert Jenrick in who just aren't right-wing enough. And now because it's politically expedient in Newark, he's now adopting this strange thing. I mean, literally, one of his children's middle names is Thatcher. And yesterday he's talking about the government coming in and subsidising... After the lady, not the roof. Possibly.

6:28Camilla: The government coming in and subsidising Poundland. And so he then had a go at Fraser Nelson for asking about that on Scott. I'm not unsympathetic about that, by the way. After all, if you're going to bail out anyone, pound land is going to be cheap, isn't it? Yes, that's right. It's a pound. That's true. And to be fair to you, you also asked difficult questions of Kemi Badenock. Yeah, well, I asked her why she had given that seat on the select committee to Rupert Lowe if she was going to be busily denouncing anyone in reform as potentially racist and ethno-nationalist. Didn't she need to look a little bit closer to home?

6:59Camilla: and then she insisted that Lowe himself wasn't a racist and I pointed out that he was supported by people who appeared to be racist because Gordon's written it. A strange distinction to make in a political party. That's not a standard which is applied to reform. Reform has some nasty councillors. It doesn't mean the whole party is constitutionally racist. No, nobody's suggesting that any of these parties are. But the Tories do try to apply that standard to reform. But she's enjoying Restore eating Nigel Farage's lunch, right? Exactly. The enemy of my enemy. This is like politics in the Balkans in the 1990s but you'll notice that in many of these encounters, the people we're interviewing say to us, why are you asking me this question?

7:33Why don't you ask the other side this question?

7:35Camilla: Yes. That's an odd way to answer a question. But we do. But you see my point that they're obsessed with what side do you want? Because you've got to pick a side now. You have to pick a side. Jenrick also, he was saying to me, why aren't you asking me this and why aren't you asking me that? I literally started the interview asking him about the budget. But then I thought, I'm not going to ask you the same questions I'm going to ask Emma Reynolds on account of the fact that you aren't in government and you aren't even the official opposition. And by the way, we will ask you about an undercover sting involving racists in your midst.

8:05Camilla: I mean, he didn't like the line that I gave him that perhaps ITV was better at vetting than Reform UK. He didn't like that. And I've also, and you and I have discussed, this is the thing that gets missed in the quest for ideological purity. Haven't you and I discussed whether they are being disproportionately targeted? Yes. Haven't I written a column saying, hang on a minute, I wouldn't mind a Channel 4 sting into the racists in the Greens, thank you very much. Yes. So, nuance. What happened to nuance, Tim Stanley? So, I said your weekend telly has shown us two things. One, that the right is in the Civil War.

8:36The second is that the Labour Party is coming out. It's coming out of the closet.

8:42Camilla: Is it? For years, it pretended to be straight-up centrist. Yes. It's gone through a period of questioning under Andy Burnham, And now it is just flouncing out of that closet as full-on left wing. Yes. And it turns out that everything that they said to get themselves into government was a lie. That's right. Beginning with their red lines on the EU. Yes. Now, not only do we know that Andy Burnham is going to reverse those at some point in the future, he's going to put that back on the table, possibly even a second referendum, possibly even going back to the EU. But how striking. Or if Emily Thornberry gets her way, no second referendum.

9:15Camilla: Just get over it. Just do it. Do it. Just put a gun to the public's head and march them across the channel. But Rachel Reeves has come out and said, on second thought, actually, I think we've lost out for being outside of the EU and we should go back in. So why did you say we shouldn't do that? No, because you put it in a manifesto in order to get the red wall on side because you knew that they had turned their backs on the Tories. Yes. And therefore you said it. So just as you said, we're not going to cross the red line of taxing people more income, VAT or national insurance, only to do exactly that just simply by stealth.

9:48Camilla: It makes no difference if it's employers or employees, NI, in the same way that it doesn't make any difference. If it's income tax on savings or rents, it's still a tax rise. You've breached the manifesto. But that's another example of them coming out, right, is the language around employers. And you'll remember during the last election, Keir Starmer let something slip when he said he defined working people as people who don't have savings. Right. That's right. So now saying this point of unemployment, employers are not real people, that means they are, as far as they're concerned, just an inanimate money tree from which they can pluck everything they need to finance welfare, which we also know they're not going to properly reform.

10:25Camilla: Well, that's the other truth. There is no welfare cut. No welfare cut's coming. Actually, welfare's going up by 30 billion. So the whole notion, they've had an internal row about not even making a cut. That is how ridiculous this is because we were initially quibbling, I think, over about 5 billion. The bill is going up by 30 billion, regardless of what anyone says or does. So we had Reynolds in this strange situation of saying, well, we're going to table some legislation. Well, you might cut a rise, but you're not cutting the bill at all. On Europe, by the way, I do find it absolutely incredible that Reeves has spent the last two and a half years banging on about us having the fastest growth in the Eurozone, banging on about us having the fastest growth.

11:08Camilla: And now we need to go back in. Now we need to go back in. Literally while France is bankrupt and on fire and Germany is about to be taken over by the AFD. And no one can quite figure out what's going on in Poland, but it doesn't look good. No. So they are out and proud on Europe. They are out and proud on tax. They are out and proud on protecting welfare. As we speak, they are planning a U-turn on immigration, which because of the time we're recording, we'll have to come back to later. but we all suspect that Shibana Mahmood is not going to go forward with the dramatic change for indefinite leave.

11:44Camilla: Well, she might make a carve-out for social care workers, which we could question the wisdom of because Boris Johnson did that and then suddenly four to six million people came over here in a big fat wave. Either way, we've been whacked over the head because Shibana Mahmood is really right-wing, practically far-right. This is a blue Labour government and they are determined to bring immigration under control. Well, we'll wait and see what comes of that. But finally, they are out and proud on the question of foreign aid and slavery reparations. Slavery reparations. Can you even begin to fathom a situation where paying slavery reparations to the Caribbean and other countries passes Andy Burnham's Makerfield test?

12:29Camilla: Can you imagine knocking on those doors again, as we did in that by-election, and having the good people of Makerfield say, in the midst of a cost of living crisis, following a budget that has literally given the great UK four pee off a jar of gherkins, would you now like to pay trillions for the mistakes of people centuries ago? Before we get into the rights and wrongs of that, I just think it's important to add for a bit of context. Britain's foreign aid regime has changed dramatically. And it has been a bipartisan change. It has gone from David Cameron setting at 0.7 % to being reduced to about 0.3 % at the same time as they have shifted away from giving direct grants to say, right here, go and build a well, towards investment in businesses that produce a return.

13:26Yes. Or else spending on things within this country, such as helping refugees. Some of the development budget actually is spent within the UK. That was begun under Brexit, that move away from 0.7 towards spending less money and spending it more sort of towards business goals and domestic goals. And it was continued under Keir Starmer. Labour signed off on that and continued down that path. So this conversation about slavery and reparations is important from a policy point of view because we all suspect it's going to be about reversing that trend. Yes. Because what is being hinted at here is direct aid towards medicine and education in developing countries, which is not the path that Britain has been taking.

14:16So don't just see this as a sort of a GCSE's moral issues debate. The interesting thing to watch is, is Andy Burnham going to take us back to the old regime where Britain handed out large amounts of money to developing countries?

14:31Camilla: To Ethiopian Spice Girls and the Indian Space Race. Well, that was one thing we did. It's worth noting, we do already send large amounts of money to the Commonwealth, including Nigeria, which will receive£75 million this year, and Jamaica, which will receive£2.4 million. But I doubt that what's going to come out of this, as I say, is we're going to give$2 trillion to the rest of the world to say sorry. What I think is interesting is, is this going to start the process of returning to the old foreign aid? Isn't it astonishing how seemingly comfortable Andy Burnham has been, both as Manchester mayor and now prime minister, with huge amounts of investment coming in from Middle Eastern nations, which probably don't have a great relationship with modern slavery?

15:16Camilla: I mean, remember all of the stories that Oliver Brown did about Qatar and the World Cup. So on one hand, let's turn a blind eye to actual slavery still going on today. Meanwhile, let's self-flagellate and issue an apology for a slave trade that we helped to abolish. But let's make no demands whatsoever on the Arab nations that took literally millions more slaves than Britain ever did. Their numbers are up to nearly 20 million. Ours are around 3.5. and not demand any apology either from the African nations that also took slaves. This is becoming party political. And to be fair, I would say this, wouldn't I, Robert Jenrick, because we are literally besties on the phone with each other the whole time.

15:59Camilla: But hasn't Badenot got this one right? Speaking both as a black woman, but also just speaking some common sense. Let's be honest. She gives us permission to think and say things we'd feel uncomfortable thinking or saying. She gives it. She does. There's no escaping it. And her perspective is someone coming from those developing countries who can say, honestly, yeah, there's some trauma there. There's no denying what happened. There's no denying it was bad. But much of what has happened since has been done by Africans to Africans. Yes. And has nothing to do with us. Also, people have got very short memories.

16:33Camilla: Tony Blair made these apologies back in the day, didn't he? Yes. Second of all. Twice. He did it twice. Forgive me. This is a point that I made. 2006 and 2007. This is a point I made to Hannah Finesse, who we're going to speak to in just a minute because she's in Antigua. I made it to her on a previous royalty. Is this a facile point to make? Or if we are going to constantly apologise for slavery and the empire and all the rest of it, shouldn't we equally be demanding modern day Germans permanently apologise for the Nazis? To be fair, they do. Well, they don't really. When anyone, when there's a royal...

17:07To excess, I think.

17:08Camilla: Hang on a minute, though. But when there is, say, for instance, a royal visit or a... OK, say, for instance, if Mertz or Merkel or someone went to visit another country, are people constantly demanding of them an apology for Hitler? It's a bit different because we beat them in a war. And also, we are now a powerful developed country. No, but I'm merely talking about the principle of modern day people being held responsible for the crimes of their ancestors. What possible role can modern day people in Britain in 2026, what possible responsibility can they take for something that went on in the 1500s onwards?

17:49Camilla: I just don't quite get it. Should we? Well, do we need to apologise? I don't know. Like, could one of your ancestors, God forbid, have spread the plague or been responsible for the fire of London? Or what more can we apologise? It's preposterous. No. OK, so the argument for reparations would be there is a contemporary lasting effect of slavery. People are in the Caribbean because of slavery. And one consequence of slavery was that it drained the wealth and labor of African nations and prevented them from developing. Maybe they would have looked very different to how they look today if we hadn't raided and raped their countries in the way that we did.

18:30Camilla: We weren't the only people doing it. I just don't quite understand why this is a unique question asked of Britain and not anyone else. And Muslim civilisation did it too. But the point is, is the world we are in today is a consequence of the transatlantic slave industry. And countries today which are perceived as being at the top of the pile, like Britain and America, are there in part because of slavery. And therefore, they have a historic obligation to those who they damaged in order to get rich. And if you think about it, some people I feel sometimes rather glibly say, I have no relationship to anything that happened in the past.

19:09Well, we're about to commemorate Remembrance Sunday, right? There's no one alive from the First World War. But the First World War made and defined our country and shaped the way that we think about the military and valor and conflict. so we still commemorate it. Well, some countries feel the same about things like the Holocaust or slavery. Yes.

19:30Camilla: I mean, there are people in Poland that want reparations for the damage caused by the Germans. Exactly. On the other hand, you have to be hard-headed and realistic. There is a statute of limitations in life. Yes. We should not, in my opinion, arrest a 90-year-old man because he stole a car when he was a boy. Yes. Right. Likewise, you cannot go around saying to different countries, you did this a very long time ago, because to borrow a woke argument, that country itself has changed so radically in those centuries. Who exactly is it we would be prosecuting here? I can pretty safely say my relatives did not profit from slavery because they were poor.

20:15No, I don't. They're not the kind of people who did well out of it.

20:18Camilla: No, mine were Irish, Italian, so I doubt they did either. Right. And we've since had some immigration. We've had revolutions. We are a different society. It might be at some point of, dare I say, I don't want to sound patronizing here, but it might be some point of confusion for people in developing societies that they're still visited by a king. It might give the impression we are still a feudal monarchy. Yes, possibly. We are not. He's really just the face of the country, but he's not the government of the country. and of course one always comes back to that that question of so if we do accept that societies today must bear responsibility for everything that was done in the past do we have a right to require reparations from Norway yes and Denmark yeah I'd like to see it for the Viking raids yes so where do you stop it is and ultimately I think the argument comes down to a question of utility What is useful?

21:12Is this constant debate useful or is it more useful to think about moving forward, building businesses, building partnerships, treating each other as equals, which is the point of the Commonwealth? Or is it useful to constantly go on about things that happened hundreds of years ago over which we have no control and for which there probably isn't enough money in the world to fix?

21:37Camilla: Well, Tim, obviously it has ignited debate on the Telegraph website. Liz Oldfield writes,

21:48Camilla: Well,

21:54Camilla: he is Prime Minister, Liz, but I do take your point. Jim Blade says,

22:03And Jim, I'm going to have to disagree with you here. That's not the king's role. It's the prime minister's role to put his people first, the people who he was elected by. No, he wasn't elected. But to put the people of Makerfield first, and it's for him to set the policy and then the king to represent it. The problem here, as we discussed earlier, is partly about Labour coming out after Starmer as being more soft left. But it's also that Burnham has a habit of saying the first thing that comes into his head. He's all about starting conversations and dialogue and seeing where they go. As Richard Maidley said, you're flying kites.

22:38This is another classic kite. We've actually no idea what the purpose is of this or where it's going to go.

22:45Camilla: Yeah, but it's not a little fix, is it? It's not like legislation to find the end of the sellotape, which has been going far on social media. Oh, do you think he's going to put a cap on Caribbean bus fares? Well, who knows? It's amazing. He seems to be confused. On one hand, he wants to help us with all the little things. And on the other hand, he's talking about reparations that could literally drum up a bill of trillions. Yes. Make your mind up, mate. Are you doing the big stuff or the little stuff or what?

23:14In 2010, newlyweds Debbie Cooper and Jamie Starbuck set off on a round-the-world honeymoon. But something wasn't right.

23:22Camilla: We kind of started to scrutinise things a lot more. What exactly is going on here? Debbie was missing. We just looked at each other and said, so what's the next step? and it's like police. He was a lovely little boy, but something happened to him to turn him into a monster. There's nothing off her, he just erased her. Missing Debbie, a new Bed of Lies podcast from The Telegraph. Out now.

23:52Camilla: Shall we speak to our girl in the Caribbean, Hannah Furness, the most popular ginger that has entered the Caribbean since Prince Harry's last tour? She's with the King right now. Hannah, may I just say you look fantastic. We're in the Caribbean, yeah, it's great. We're in the Caribbean, but it really suits you. You've got lovely hair and the view behind you, we've got palm trees, you've got houses with red roofs. It's just a classic Caribbean vista and it looks so nice. But has the weather always been this good? No, as you know out here, there is torrential rain occasionally. And did you see the clip of the King yesterday?

24:26We did. Yes, we did. It's all anyone's talking about. A poor, poor man, 78 year old man with cancer. So we were at the, it's like a military parade for Antiguan and Barbudan independence, 45 years celebrating lots of military, lots of marching, Boy Scouts. he stands up for hours as he does at Trooping the Colour as everybody goes past so the weather had been lovely all day as they get out of the car the king and queen uh they do their bit they stand for national anthems and the heavens just absolutely opened and you know you're kind of writing your analysis drop intro it rains on the king's parade in your head as all this stuff happens it's a metaphor for the tour um and then somebody gets the queen an umbrella she goes under it and pretty much runs up to go under shelter the king has to stay out for longer and nobody can seem to locate one so the poor man is going where's my umbrella where's my umbrella uh with increasing urgency and then eventually gives up and he just stands there in the absolutely pouring rain until an equi manages to source one there were shades of two different events fountain

25:35Camilla: pen gate when he got a little frustrated with his ink pen at the accession council when he became king but also i think rishi sunak announcing that snap general election the suit and the horizontal rain meeting in perfect misharmony awful but was there a good reason why someone didn't bring him an umbrella the moment that the clouds open well there is a convention out here more so than in the UK that when the national anthem is playing you know we've been told you must stand stock still no talking no moving they take it very seriously here and I think there was an issue of what's more offensive do we dash around trying to find an umbrella and potentially offend our host which is what they're concerned about the whole time obviously or do we let the king get wet or was it just a bit of a muddle between the staff out here they sorted it out it's okay he bounced back He had a good joke with the Prime Minister once he was back inside again saying watercress was about to grow out of his trousers.

26:33Camilla: That's actually quite a good line, isn't it? For an inveterate gardener. There was a scene once when the Duke of York, the former Duke of York, asked an aide who will remain nameless, but did give the story to me and others that Prince Andrew got wet once and turned to this aide and said, why haven't you brought me an effing umbrella? And it went down very badly. There are very serious matters being discussed there, though, Hannah. And has the Prime Minister, Andy Burnham, put the king in a bit of a pickle? Because over in Blighty, back in the cold and wet outside Dining Street, we've got Burnham prevaricating between wanting to make an apology for slavery, not wanting to, wanting to pay reparations, not wanting to.

27:13Camilla: And it's been suggested in the papers here that actually his flip-flopping has put the monarch in a very precarious position. Yeah, I think that's right. And it does feel like that out here. I mean, on the ground. So we've been to the Bahamas, we've been to Guyana and now we're in Antigua and Barbuda. And this is a live discussion among leaders, politicians out here. It's a very grown up debate. You know, they always talk about the king as a personal friend to a lot of these leaders. They talk about, you know, maybe they don't want him to be the monarch here, but they're very happy to have a relationship with him and a good relationship.

27:49So he's sort of playing on this out here. But this has made it very difficult for him. Andy Burnham saying that he is open to an apology. The king is not going to apologize for slavery in a formal, official way. He cannot do that as a constitutional monarch. It's not his job. That is the job for the government. It's what the palace constantly says, refers back to government. So there are two issues for him, I think. The first one is that out here, although we understand at home that the government and the king are two totally different things, we understand that relationship and those responsibilities.

28:23Out here it's much more that the king is just the face of Britain. You know normal people who talk about reparations here look to the king, the king's the face of this and if we've got Andy Burnham saying he's open to calls for an apology it does leave more of a question for the king of why he isn't doing that and it's quite difficult to explain. The other thing is and this is what the palace as you know are always wary of is that it's dragged him into a political issue but it's very quickly become a party political issue which which is the kind of red line, absolute no, that the king can't do.

28:54So back in Britain, I mean, you tell me, but as I understand it, it's immediately divided. Labour Conservative and Farage obviously feels very strongly about it as well. And it's put the king just in again for the I feel like the thousandth time I'm talking to you about this in the last few years, quite an uncomfortable position. He can deal with it. The palace call it a diplomatic tightrope that he has walked for a long time and he can still do it. But it doesn't make his job here easier. From what you've seen, are Caribbeans unanimous on demanding an apology or reparations? Or are there some people in the Caribbean saying, let's let this go and move on?

29:32Well, what we've seen out and about, it's slightly different in each country. So in the Bahamas, what we thought were going to be fairly significant protests turned out to be five very gently spoken, articulate women with placards amid crowd of hundreds and hundreds who have come out to dance and see the king and have a good time. In Guyana, it was a little bit more vocal. I would say about 20 people with placards with slightly more, not aggressive, noisy shouting. Reparations now as the king walked into a building. But that was that. What we've seen more is a little bit of bafflement, really, about why people like us keep talking about it.

30:17The host countries, the palace told us in advance that when they're working with these host countries, the countries themselves want the focus to be on the future, showing off the best of their country. What are we going to do for young people? How are we going to develop our relationship with Britain? So there has been a degree of bafflement of why we're all so obsessed with it, when it's not a huge discussion on the ground apart from these campaigners. Antigua itself, so as Chogham kicks in, which really gets into action today when the prime minister arrives, I think it is going to feel like a lot more of a life serious issue that people are talking about.

30:53That's so interesting because you wouldn't know that if you didn't go there. I mean, that sounds obvious, but from our perspective, we assume the Caribbean is obsessed with this and it's all they want to talk about. And they just see us as a check waiting to be signed.

31:07Camilla: Also, you assume that the whole of the Caribbean wants to ditch the Commonwealth and become republics as Barbados has and all the rest of it. But normally when you're on tour, you've got many more people turning out for the royals than turning against the royals. Yeah. And there's the biggest danger I would say out here is apathy, actually, towards the monarchy. There's a there's a section of people that talk about reparations all the time. There's a section of people who for decades talk about derailming and republicanism. Most people who we've met are kind of curious to see the king, curious to see the royal family, interested in a relationship with Britain in historic terms.

31:44Lots of them, you know, the leaders especially have very strong relationships with the late queen and now have them with the king. So it's, as we've travelled around, it hasn't felt any different to me this time, as we've seen on many other royal tours, and you will have seen as well, Camilla, of, you know, you have the press and a section of people talking about one thing and it feels different out here. And that is, That's why we can't see it with our own eyes.

32:08Camilla: Final, very serious question. Can you confirm or deny that in their infinite wisdom, Buckingham Palace recommended a hotel for the Royal Press Pack that may be adults only and frequented by swingers? I'm just saying how nice it looks. Well, it looks a bit like the set of Neighbours. For those listening, Hannah seems to be in some kind of Ramsey Street-esque cul-de-sac. But is it adults only there? Hannah, have you been painting the town red? What's been happening at night? What goes on tour stays on tour, Camilla, as you know. Yes, yes, don't I know it. It has been a bit difficult to file sometimes.

32:41There's quite a lot of loud music in the background.

32:44Camilla: Is there? Loud music and loud drink. Who would have thought it on tour, Tim? Oh, I remember such a lovely tour to the Caribbean where we stayed at a sandals resort, and I'm not quite sure what happened, but I did end up kissing an American TV anchor on the lips. Oh, really? Yes. Not on air. Have you told your husband this? Well, it was just like, it was a kiss without tongues, can I just stress, but he was a very, very attractive man. You're a married lady. I know I am, but it's fine to kiss somebody on the lips, isn't it? Well, that's a separate podcast. We'll put that out as a weekend special.

33:17That is not one I plan to research any further out here.

33:20Camilla: No, fair enough. Hannah, have a brolly handy. Lovely to see you. We'll welcome you back to the UK soon. Thank you.

33:49A-Cast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show we recommend. Hi, I'm Rachel Fisher. And I'm Desi Jennekin. And we host Hollywood Crime Scene. Our show is about the salacious crimes and scandals of the rich and famous from the early days of Hollywood to the 21st century. We also cover Los Angeles history, true events that inspired movies, interesting biographies, and more. At the end of the week, we drop our mini episode, which recaps the news everyone is talking about, plus the weirdest stories of the week from around the globe. We also talk about food a lot. Subscribe to Hollywood Crime Scene wherever you find podcasts.

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