Farage rules as Rayner resigns

0:03The Telegraph.

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0:43Angela Rayner is gone. Nigel Farage thinks there's going to be a general election as soon as 2027. But at the Reform Conference in Birmingham, we're going to find out whether this party really is ready to rule. feels less like a conference, more like a TV talent show, we speak to some of the top stars, including Richard Tice, Sarah Pochin and Jim Davidson. Welcome to The Daily Tea with me, Camilla Tominey. And me, Tim Stanley. This government is deep in crisis. Not only, not only have they fallen into deep popularity within just a year of winning the general election, but it's become clear to all of us that it is a cabinet of wholly unqualified people to run our country.

1:36They are not fit to govern.

1:50A few minutes before the conference was due to start, news broke over the iPhone that Angela Rayner had resigned. A journalist shouted at me, she has left. I don't know why, but I misheard it as he had lost his voice. And I kept shouting at him, try a lozenge. Maybe we should say that to Ange. Try a lozenge to get over this difficult period in your career. So the result was the conference started late. It had a slightly panicked air to it. And they clearly had to rewrite some of the speeches and change some of the order. Nigel Farage was meant to speak much later. Instead, he spoke earlier. But before we get on to what he said, what is the significance of Angela Rayner going?

2:28I mean, we knew it was coming. We knew it was coming from this morning. The Telegraph had been reporting today as Judgment Day. We have a typed letter from Angela Rayner saying mea culpa, on the back of Laurie Magnus saying, actually, you need to go. We then have a handwritten letter from Keir Starmer, very warm in its tone, considering that we know that these two don't get on particularly famously. so a lot of sort of sympathy and it's so difficult for your family and isn't this a travesty. I'm not sure they're going to be seeing eye to eye when it comes to the Labour Party conference when I'd imagine that Ange, who let's be honest is very popular with the Labour grassroots is going to probably completely outmanoeuvre the Prime Minister launch herself back onto the political scene with a speech.

3:13I think it's going to be like when Boris Johnson was fired turned up at Tory Party conference and stole the show. I agree. I think this could be a turning point for the government. And Nigel Farage mentioned that in his speech. Remember, this week was reset week, bringing us on to phase two of the government. Keir Starmer said he didn't want to have a reshuffle. He moved some people around internally, but he wasn't going to touch the top jobs. Well, this story has changed all of that. A story brought to you by the Daily Telegraph. I know. It is our scoop, our investigation. We're very proud of it.

3:43Such good journalism. Many voters and readers will be asking themselves, why did she have to wait for the report to go? We knew the details, we knew the circumstance, and it's so procedural of Keir Starmer to say, I want to have an official tell me she's done wrong before I let her go. Well, the other question as well is whether this has blown up the reform conference or actually given it rocket fuel, and I'm now leaning towards the latter. I sort of thought if they were going to be very vindictive in Labour, they would have staged her resignation for about five to four when the original speech that Nigel Farage was meant to deliver was scheduled for, very shrewd of him to bring his speech forward and try and gain back the momentum.

4:21Because actually, now it's a 24-hour news cycle. Her resignation will seem old news by later today, and he wants to dominate the front pages. And he wanted to be on telly responding to the resignation. Also, that's why he's now thrown 2027 into the mix. If there is one really big message from me to this conference, I don't think, and the bomb markets back me up, and the leftward drift backs me up, and before long, there'll be Labour MPs that reckon they've got a better chance on the Jeremy Corbyn sectarian ticket, because frankly, folks, that's what's going on in our country. We have sectarian politics emerging.

5:04I loathe it. I loathe it. But there'll come a point when many MPs, Labour MPs, think they've got a better chance of being re-elected under that ticket, under Corbyn, than they do under Sir Keir. I think there is every chance now of a general election happening in 2027, and we must be ready for that moment. And, of course, it does give him a bit more kind of fire in his belly when he talks about, well, people think that we're inexperienced, that we're not ready to rule. Look at the current crop. She's useless. Rachel Reeves must go next, which, by the way, is the headline on my column, which is being published in The Telegraph tonight and over tomorrow.

5:55This proves that, actually, you may as well take a punt on us. Yes. Because the Tories are dead and buried. Nadine Doris has brought on us the kind of, like, centrepiece of Farage's speech here today. and Labour are literally, I mean, they are in intensive care on life support. If the Tories are dead, Labour are on life support. The Tories are irrelevant. Labour is falling apart before our very eyes, so why not go with reform? And my take is this reform conference has felt like a light entertainment broadcast, ITV, circa 1985. Yes. Presented by Dr David Bull in his inimitable, fun, camp way. He then threw it over to the floor where Jeremy Carl was wandering around speaking to people as if taking paternity tests.

6:41You know, where are you from, Jacqueline? Have you come far? What do you do? All this sort of stuff. Is this really your husband? It's classic banter. Andrea Jenkin, we have to talk about Andrea Jenkin. Well, I have seen that sparkly outfit before somewhere. Right. She does like to wear the sequence. Apollo 11 mission. She likes to wear the sequence, but I was not expecting her to break into songs. Yes, and it's a song she had written. Right. You see what I mean? It's called Insomnia. Especially as she walked out through those doors. It just had such a feel of, Tonight, Matthew, I am going to be Celine Dion.

7:15That's right. I'm an insomniac. I'm an insomniac. Staring at the ceiling. Oh, hey, what about the stupid job? Yes, I'm an insomniac. I'm an insomniac. And all I can hear is the sound of that clark The sound of that clark I'm an insomnia Yeah, I'm an insomnia Her speech, God Lover, didn't have the power that the song did. No, insomnia is something I associate with Born Slippy and the 90s rave scene. This was a different take on it. This was more anthemic. And I think the point was, well, I don't really know what the point was, Tim. It was just to answer. There was a lot of stuff about veterans' villages in Lincolnshire.

8:08Yes. Which just didn't match with what's going on. But she was there, I felt, to keep things ticking along, while backstage Nigel Farage tried to write a new speech. Indeed. And he came out, the sparklers went off. Yes. His speech was put out beforehand. It was written on paper. Yes. This was not using the autocues that everyone else used. So this was something that had clearly been typed up in a hurry. And as, of course, he's Nigel Farage. He doesn't even need the paper. No. He can just extemporise. He can talk at the top of his head, which is pretty much what he did. And he brought out his special guest star for that session, Nadine Dorries.

8:45Now, I thought that was a bit of an error. I think she should have gone separately because he brought out Nadine Dorries. And then she got quite serious quite quickly. She did. She was serious. So he had been sort of like, you know, tub thumping. and there she was saying, you know, the country is facing a crisis and I've had to abandon the Conservatives because they were so rubbish and the only way forward is reform. And I get that it's a really significant defection. This is one of Boris Johnson's closest allies. What does it mean for the future of reform? What does it mean for the future of the Conservatives?

9:13And all the rest of it. But she kind of killed the mood a bit. Yeah, she did, but her serious message is the Tories are dead. There's no going back there. if she's made this jump, then lots of others are welcome to do the same. Yes. And I felt that that was a message which went down well with the membership, even if they weren't whooping and cheering. The lady with the reform teddy bear behind me wasn't quite as excited by her as she was by Farage. But Farage came back out again and regained momentum and hit all the usual things, net zero, safer streets, our women and our girls are under attack, all this sort of stuff.

9:49I think if there are three messages I took away from this, One, I felt immigration was slightly downplayed Very much so It's there, but the emphasis is now on things like the NHS It's on things like the state of the economy Debt, that was what Nadine Dourage was hitting very hard So immigration is part of it, but not the dominant message anymore The second thing is how critical unity is At one point the audience was actually invited to stand up As if pledging allegiance to the flag To recite the words What is it? Nigel Farage is the next Prime Minister He's the next Prime Minister. It felt like a cult meeting at that stage.

10:24And please repeat after me that Nigel will be Prime Minister. Nigel will be Prime Minister! And we will save Britain. Reform will save Britain! And the third message, as you've mentioned, is 2027. They really think the election could come early because they see Labour crumbling. And that makes sense. Whether it does or doesn't, you don't lose anything if it doesn't. but they're trying to get the party ready and in the right set of mind that they've got to go out and campaign and be disciplined and united. It was interesting that although they did play down immigration and deportation, the biggest cheers came when he mentioned migrant hotels.

11:05Yeah, of course. So clearly the crowd is warm to it. Maybe he just thinks we've won on that argument. And do you know what? There was some really interesting polling by Scarlett Maguire at Merlin today. And it was asking the public questions about, do you believe this to be true or false about Nigel Farage? And the best result for him was a question which asked, Nigel Farage can be most trusted when it comes to bringing down immigration. And although he wasn't trusted on some other areas, including privatisation of the NHS, keeping his economic promises, on immigration, that man is trusted to actually bring the change that the country has been clamouring for, which has been exemplified through people flying the flag and painting the flag on roundabouts and all the rest of it.

11:47I thought he was trying to be moderate and kind of having widespread appeal. Also, maybe he just thought, look, we've got a great win today. The Deputy Prime Minister, Housing Secretary, has stood down. It's disastrous for Labour. Nobody's really listening to Kemi Badenock, as you say. And he did poke fun at her, despite his willingness to recruit as many Tories as he can, by the way. There may be a contradiction at the heart of that. And a party which is trying to define itself by loyalty looks a bit odd when you are staffed by defectors from other parties. Can we just talk about his star quality, though?

12:19Just in the sense... Look, I know he's in a... He's in an echo chamber here, right? Everyone wants to hear him. We're at a reform conference. Of course he's going to be mobbed. Yes. But there is something quite significant going on. You've mentioned the young people here. I'm standing here thinking, shall I get my son, who is quite into Farage, on the way here, we had a little conversation about... I've been asked by his headteacher to find a speaker at the school. Yeah. And he said, well, can't you get Farage? Everyone would be really interested in that. Look, I don't think he would have said Starmer or Badenock or Davey.

12:51No. And I'm thinking, shall I get him a football shirt? There's no way on earth I would be considering buying any merch for any of my children from any other party conference, OK? Yeah. Now, I'm only saying that because it's playing into the fame of Farage. He comes into this floor. He is mobbed. Yeah. He goes on that stage. Obviously, everyone wants to hear him. He's an extremely natural speaker. He's funny. He's spontaneous and all the rest of it. This whole recognizability factor, this Farage factor, it's going to take on growing significance as we edge closer and closer towards an election.

13:28Not least because 16 to 18 year olds are going to be given the vote. Yeah. There's a girl walking around here in hot pants with a T-shirt of Nigel Farage's face on it. From when he was much younger, I have to say. You wouldn't get that with Keir Starmer. It's just not going to happen. No. David Ball said in his speech that I think he said 40 % of reform supporters have not been to university and 60 % were under 55. Wow. And from the hotel bar last night, I did feel like I was at a school disco. Lots of people under 25. Apparently, that's who's staffing reform internally now. And they all speak the language of social media, I was told.

14:03So that's one reason why reforms colonize that so brilliantly. And looking at this audience, we've been to many, many conferences. This is the kind of audience that you get at the conference of the party that's ahead. And sometimes, some years, you go to Labour and you see lots of mini Keir Starmer. Yes. You go to, I remember Boris, you see lots of mini Boris's, young men pretending to be Boris. It was a bit odd, and they may regret that later in life. This is a conference where young people are being drawn, perhaps because they agree, but also because this is the winning party. If you're young and you're trying out politics, you'd start here, or the Greens, or Corbyn, not the two main parties.

14:41Nigel pulled a white rabbit out of the hat, Nadine Dorries defecting from the Tories to reform. We caught up with her and asked her what she thinks about the conference. Nadine, to leave one party and join another, does that feel like leaving a family? Very much so, because I've been a part of that family for 30 years now, Tim. But, you know, the family left me. Right. So it wasn't that I left the family. Was there one thing? Oh, no. I mean, you know, when I said in my speech, when a political party removes two prime ministers shortly after they've won major election victories, you know, you can do it once and it can be a mistake.

15:19Do it twice and something's fundamentally wrong with the party. Right. And it's just no secret. I've written two books about it. When they removed a prime minister who'd won his 80-seat majority and was a vote winner and always known to be a vote winner to replace him with a dud like Risha Sunak and then to elect a party leader like Kemi Badnogu who has yet to announce a policy a year later. The Conservative Party can't manage itself and its own affairs. How on earth can we trust it to run the country? And also, you know, two thighs of the Conservative Party are wets. And politics has changed.

15:57The country has changed. They're just not keeping up. And the reason why Camille Barton-Ock has not announced a policy is because when she does, she knows two thighs of those MPs will not agree with her. And the divisions will be laid bare again. And I've just had enough. Because you've written books very skilfully and amusingly portraying the Tory party as a sort of incompetent mafia. but it's not just about that, it's also that in terms of philosophy they're now out of touch with the public and they're no longer Conservative in the proper philosophical sense. You know, I'm about family, faith and flag and that's why I joined the Conservatives.

16:33I thought it was a party to the right that also reflected my values. Only I realised when I became an MP and became part of the party that actually a lot of that is just spin and that when you get in there, it really isn't. It's not about those things. And I joined at a time when the party was all about modernisation. It was all about calling those of us who wanted to exit the European Union swivel-eyed loons. It was about rejecting any policy. You couldn't even mention Thatcher. You talked about Margaret Thatcher. You immediately isolated yourself. And that has been going on for a long time. It wasn't like that under Boris Johnson.

17:12It was the broad church. People could say what they wanted and believe in what they wanted. I wanted to reform the BBC. I wanted to sell Channel 4. I had the Prime Minister's full backing. But there are huge divisions in the party, and it can never govern when it's tested. The Conservative Party will never be able to govern because of those divisions. Right. Now, of course, some people will be saying the big message of this conference is unity behind Nigel. Yeah. But it's also a conference composed of a lot of people who've defected or left other parties. Yeah. How do you account for that? Is this now home?

17:46Are you now definitely on team, Nigel? Nigel Farage has the same loyalty and support that I gave to Boris Johnson. Right. Absolutely the same. You know, I think the one way I can help Nigel is to make sure that people understand that if you're disunited, if MPs aren't loyal to their leader, if you don't work as a team and as one, the road leads to electoral hell. The Conservative Party discovered that the last election. The Labour Party is fracturing apart because it's splitting into two. The only way you can deliver, the only way to save the country, the only way to function as an effective political party is to unite behind your leader.

18:28And that's the one message I hope I can bring to reform. I want to say a word of praise for something on historical record. You were a very interesting culture secretary. Normally they're very bland and they don't really do anything. You really had an agenda, be it cleaning up the internet, BBC licence fee, privatisation of Channel 4. Would you like to pick that up again in reform? Would you like to be a candidate for a culture secretary? Look, I'm an author who sold three and a half million books. I come from Liverpool, a city of culture, a city of football, a city of the theatre, of great writers and artists.

19:00I'm of Irish descent. You know, I love culture and the arts. so I had no discussions with Nigel about jobs of any kind and I'm not looking to the future but it is a passion of mine I still think the BBC needs to be reformed, I still think Channel 4 needs to be sold maybe I could just mention the online safety bill I was the minister who introduced the online safety bill it was never never intended to separate a mother from her child and put her in prison for a tweet that she deleted in the heat of the moment, and then deleted. It was never intended to arrest a comedian because he spoke about trans ideology or tweeted about trans ideology.

19:47It was always about children. And the bill has been so mutated by so many MPs who wanted to add their bauble onto the Christmas tree that it just isn't fit for purpose. It is impossible to police the internet. it is possible to protect children and young people. And that's been lost. On that note, do you feel any empathy for Angela Rayner in this story? Because it's not just a story, is it, about tax avoidance? It's also a story about a mother trying to juggle life after a divorce and with a child with special needs. So, you know, I told you a moment ago, it's always been about family, faith and flag for me.

20:24There are things about the whole Angela Rayner story I do understand and I don't. I don't understand how you could take money from your son's own trust in order to buy yourself a party pad down in Bournemouth, hundreds of miles away from your son, your disabled son. I don't quite get that. I don't understand that. And I don't think many of the population do. It was untenable as a housing minister to buy a flat and not pay stamp duty. So do I feel empathy for her as a female politician? I certainly do. You know, the hatred, the graffiti on the walls, the flack that she will get, the abuse she will get.

21:04As a female politician, I have lived through that many times. And I do feel for that because she's a human being. But Angela Rayner has made a number of very serious mistakes. And I think sometimes that the root of everything she does, there's an idiocy. You know, whether it's taking free gifts and not realising that you have to register them, whether it's partying in Ibiza when you're supposed to be doing a serious job, and whether it's buying a party pad in Bournemouth with the money from your disabled son's trust, which came to you from the NHS. There is just an idiocy at the root of a lot of what she does.

21:44I'm glad she's gone. I think she'll be a happier person. Does this make an election 2027 more likely as the party is suggesting? The Labour Party is not going to split. You know, Corbyn, Progazer, Independence, anybody who the Polanski's Green Party, all the left-wing firebrands will now split away from Labour and Angela Rayner will be amongst them. And this is a very dangerous time. And this is the beginning of the end for Starmer and Labour. It's the beginning of the end. Angela will still be a part of that. She'll move that left-wing firebrand behaviour that she's known for over to the left.

22:20But, yeah, it's pretty dangerous days for Labour. Nadine Dorries, thank you very much. No, you're welcome, Tim. Well, we said earlier we had the stars of reform. Coming up, we speak to Deputy Leader Richard Tice. Sarah Pochen, MP. And Jim Davidson.

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23:25Richard Tice, Deputy Leader of Reform UK. How excited are you right now? The big conference. It's absolutely amazing. Two-day conference just starting and people are streaming in. We've got this huge room, buses everywhere. We've got fringe events everywhere. We've got tractors. We've got the Pothole Pro just over here and some amazing speeches, panel events. What's not to like? And you've got a new defector in Nadine Dorries. Now, tell me this. Is the Tories gain reforms loss? Has somebody put it on X last night? Now she's Nigel's problem. Nadine has said on her social media the Tory party is dead.

24:06That's the key thing to focus on. someone like Nadine so loyal to Boris Johnson and conservative to her fingertips. The fact that she's left and then she tweets now the Tory party is dead, it's basically game over. And if you look at one of the other newspapers, their sort of headline, essentially, they're switching horses. Yes, the Daily Mail is coming to reform. It's quite a moment. You don't want to be kind of like a dumping ground for disgruntled Tories. How many Tories are you willing to take on? We're the exciting ground for saving the country, restoring our culture, restoring our sovereignty and restoring some economic growth and making people better off.

24:47And that's what I'm going to be talking about tomorrow afternoon. But just on Dorries, I mean, she's somebody that thinks there's been a sinister plot at the heart of Tory government for years. She's a bit of a conspiracy theorist. As you say, she's a massive Johnsonian. You've been extremely critical of Boris. She's also, by the way, a huge advocate for the online safety bill that you want to scrap. How do we pair up those contradictions? Wouldn't life be boring if we agreed on everything? I mean, the reality is most people in a political party, you might agree with 70%, 80%, 85%. Life would be very boring if you agree with everything.

25:20The thing about the Online Safety Act, well-intentioned, but they took so long faffing around with it in so many different iterations, with so many different ministers, it ended up as a complete muddle. And by the end of it, they were just exhausted and they just want to push it over the line. Here's the answer to the laudable objective of child protection. It's actually tech. I've seen software and phones that are coming out literally as we speak that will prevent harmful images hitting the screen of a phone or a tablet, preventing access to apps, preventing access to the internet. Parents will be demanding a tech solution way ahead of when the legislators can get their act together.

26:00What have the likes of Nadine Dorries and Jake Berry, who I've just seen at the GB Newsstand, been offered? I mean, are you expecting these people to run as reform MPs 28-29, whenever the next election is? I've no idea. At the end of the day, we're a meritocracy. But you'd expect them to run for you as MPs, right? Actually, no, I mean, essentially, not necessarily. It's up to them. If they want to stand, then they can put themselves forward. But you're going to have to find a great many more MPs by the time we get to the next election. I think it's exciting to see the quantity of really high-quality people approaching us and have never been involved in politics before.

26:34They've got incredible CVs. They've succeeded in various walks of life. And they're saying the situation is so bad. I want to help. I want to get stuck in and put their aim forward. So I think we will be blessed with a huge supply of great candidates. And then branches will make their decisions. How about this? Nadine's bestie, Boris, says, I quite like the look of reform as well. I want to have a meeting with Nigel Farage and Richard Tice. I want to sit down, maybe have a gin and tonic and discuss my defection. What do you then say as Deputy Leader? Welcome, Boris, or don't be darned? I say, Camilla, you're being a conspiracy theorist.

27:12No, I'm just asking. It's a question that reform supporters... It's a hypothetical that's never occurred to me. It could be some kind of dream duo, couldn't it? Farage, Johnson, hoovering up the rights. Is it a dream or is it a nightmare? Well, do you think it's a dream or a nightmare? I'm just enjoying the fact that here we are, we've got the momentum. I think we're a whisk away from 240 ,000 members. Very soon we'll be ahead of the Labour Party members. Did you see the poll just, I think, last week? Yes. That said that we were polling higher than the Labour Party and the Tories put together.

27:42I saw that, 35%. Yes. But is there a danger that you're peaking too early? Well, frankly, it's a bit like when you're making a profit, it's a good thing. It's a sign of progress and, yeah, we've got to keep going. Of course, you'll have the odd blip. We'll make mistakes. No one's perfect. It'd be boring if we were, frankly. But we'll keep learning, keep pushing, and there's a lot to be done because the country's in a terrible state. And in particular, what I'm most worried about of everything is the state of the country's finances. We've now got a moron premium being applied by the bond markets to Rachel Reeves.

28:21A moron premium? They're calling Inner City the moron premium. M-O-R-O-N. Yes, to the cost of UK government debt. So a couple of days ago, 30-year gilts hit 5.75%. The highest for almost 30 years. Higher than Liz Truss's mini-budget after that? Way higher than Liz Truss's budget. And just on Tuesday this week, the Debt Management Office, they issued the biggest ever bond at£14 billion, a 10-year bond, and again, a hugely expensive cost to that. a whisker under 4.9 % hasn't been properly reported. This is because people are very concerned, no growth, jobs going down, government spending completely out of control, and people are worried.

29:03And it would be remiss of me not to ask about the Deputy Prime Minister, Angela Rayner, who has resigned at the reform conference, or at least to overshadow the reform conference. What's your reaction to that? Did she leave it too late? I'm surprised it's taken so long, because when you think that she and the Prime Minister Keir Starmer, when they were in opposition, any of the slightest transgression, they were demanding Tory ministers should resign, resign, resign. And they came in on a sort of platform of integrity and probity and public service, and yet actually it's been a catastrophe. She's tried to hang on by her fingertips, and in a sense, you know, Starmill is just sort of left flailing.

29:46Yes, although aren't you going to be left flailing because this is going to overshadow everything that you've achieved today. Nigel Farage's speech, the front pages are all going to be about her resignation and not reform. Nothing can overshadow this conference. It's huge. We've got so many people here, thousands and thousands of delegates, members, businesses. Businesses are taking us so seriously. I'm doing roundtable events every week and people can see that actually we've got a proper agenda to cut wasteful government spending. I had a big press conference earlier in the week on that and cut daft regulation.

30:19Then we can have performance-related tax cuts. Then we can get this economy motoring again like it was in the 80s and 90s, 2.5%, 3.5 % a year. I mean, that's the dream that we really want to target. You've got Nadine Dorris. Should you make a play for Angela Rayner in the future and bridge that gap between old-stroke new Labour an old stroke new reform? I'm very worried you're heading down the conspiracy route. You're sending down all sorts of different routes. Well, I'm merely saying, Richard Tice, that reform does seem to be open to anyone. I mean, okay, you're being ambivalent about Boris. We're the party of pink schools and values and strength.

30:53How about Liz Truss? She's not up to much these days. She keeps on going on about growth. You keep on going on about growth. As you've pointed out, the guilt yields aren't as bad as they are worse now than they were under Liz Truss. If she knocked on reform's door... would she get a warm reception? She had a go and she blew it because she didn't understand the importance of cutting wasteful spending and getting the public finances under control. We do because we've come from the world of business. Everything I've talked about in terms of the Bank of England voluntarily paying interest, they shouldn't be doing that.

31:24The cost of net zero, 30 billion, turns out I'm right on that. The savings that we can identify in council expenditure, I've already started to prove more than we expected to find. We're only in for three and a half months. We've got loads more of savings to find. So I'm actually quite excited by the amount of waste that we're already finding just a few months ago. As a well-spoken former businessman and now a successful politician, do you think Angela Rayner was unfairly treated or disproportionately treated because she has a different kind of accent, because she's working class and because she's a woman?

31:59nothing to do with any of those things purely because they came in on a platform of integrity of the highest possible standards and they've actually descended into a a volcano of hypocrisy yes where she's just gone down the rabbit hole and morally her position was completely indefensible the telegraph done an extraordinary exposure various parts of the facts and um look That's just a harsh reality. Are you absolutely certain your own tax affairs are in order, Richard Tice? Has Nigel Farage gone back to his own lawyers and accountants and just made sure that you've dotted all the I's and crossed all the T's?

32:40I'm certain, but we might treble check and quadruple check and, what is it, sankruple check, who knows? It's the journalistic mantra, Richard, check, check and check again. Have a great conference. You're speaking on Saturday. I'm speaking tomorrow afternoon at 3.30. Can you give us any flavour of the tone? What's the theme of your speech? I will be talking about the bad news of the disastrous Reeves mismanagement of the finances, the budget, the£50 billion black volcano that she has created. But then I'll be talking about the good news as to how we can save it. Are we going to be reading this as your pitch to be the next Chancellor?

33:13This will be my pitch that a reform government can sort out the finances, can get our economy growing again. You'd like her job though, wouldn't you? Look, at the end of the day, Nigel's the boss. We serve it his pleasure. Indeed. Thank you very much indeed, Richard Tice. Earlier we caught up with the new MP for Runcorn, Reform Sarah Pochin, just as the news was breaking that her fellow female politician, Angela Rayner, was resigning. Do you think that you becoming an MP and recruiting people like Nadine is helping Nigel Farage with what had been perceived to be a woman problem? Did he have a woman problem?

33:48Does he have a woman problem? It's a funny one. Well, first of all, we didn't recruit Nadine. She's come of her own accord. But because, I'll just make it clear, we don't actually need to recruit anyone because people want to join us, which is great. You're going to have to find prospective MPs for the next general election. We are, and we have people lined up, and we have people ready for the by-elections as they come along. I'm sure. We think there's going to be four, certainly over the next few months, so it's going to be a busy time. but in terms of you asked me about women coming to the party and Nigel's view on all of that well look I've only had support and encouragement from and welcome from from the other male colleagues that I've got I don't think there's a woman problem I think it's been a bit of a shock to them having to stop every now and again to do lipstick and hairspray but you know they're getting used to it oh and by the way Richard Tice uses hairspray as well I bet he may wear more wake up than others in between but you feel you've been welcomed in and what's the situation when it comes to women voting for reform because to be fair they were quite underrepresented at the last general election it was a bit of a blokey scene yeah what are you doing in order to ensure that you get the women of middle england let's call it that waitrose women and such like to come across probably from the conservatives to reform which is going to be necessary to win the blue wall as well as the Red Wall?

35:07Well two things I'll unpick there. First of all women are flooding to reform. I hope that I'm doing something to help that. They can see in me a normal grounded sort of common sense woman that has wanted to basically now dedicate the next you know however many years hopefully many years to this cause and so I think it does make people listen to what I've got to say but also lots of young women as well coming over to reform which is fantastic because I think the younger generation men and women have not really been involved and engaged in politics for a long time but now through Nigel because he's such an engaging figure you know young people are coming across they see somebody in me as well I think without doubt that is very happy to speak about the safety issues of women and girls in our society and the risks that they face and the increasing risks that they face at the moment.

36:05So I think that probably gives people the sort of encouragement and the bravery themselves to stand up for what's important to women. But, you know, let me just make it quite clear. You know, the guys are great. We have a great laugh in Parliament. We take obviously what we're dealing with is such big issues, but we have fun. were real politicians, but being a woman is absolutely irrelevant. OK. Although, Camilla, I did have to iron Lee's shirt yesterday. You ironed Lee Anderson's shirt? I ironed Lee Anderson's shirt. Why can't Lee Anderson iron his own shirt? He was making such a mess of his shirt.

36:40Was he? I couldn't believe it. I walked past his office. He didn't know what he was doing. Did he have an ironing board in his office? Yes. He didn't even do the sleeves first. It was an absolute mess. What else does Lee Anderson have in his office? A kettle? I couldn't possibly tell you that. A cheese toastie maker? All sorts of things in that office. But I had to take over, iron his shirt, and put him right on the sleeves first. Can I ask you another woman-related question? Because we are literally waiting on news of Angela Rayner's resignation. The Telegraph is reporting that the exchange of letters between her and the Prime Minister is imminent.

37:11There's been a bit of dialogue around her having been treated unfairly because she's a woman, because she has an accent. Has she been unfairly treated because she's female? Oh, that's all nonsense. One minute she's and they're all saying how wonderful it is that Angela Rayner, who has done extremely well in her career and has worked her way up and from a fairly, I think, you know, basic start in life, if you like. So you can't play it both ways, can you? You know, at the end of the day, she's been super hypocritical. And this is the problem with these Labour politicians. Here she is with three homes.

37:50She can't decide which one is her main residence, which one she pays council tax on. She clearly has flip-flopped over whether or not she's had advice on the stamp duty. She's doing everything that she has accused the, well, traditionally the Conservatives of doing. And, you know, she's leading the high life and she hasn't come clean. And I would imagine that she's going to pay the price very shortly. And with regard to having a special needs child, though, a child with disabilities, should we be being more sisterly? Does she deserve special treatment because of those circumstances? Absolutely not.

38:26The fact is that on the one hand, again, she needs to get her story straight. On the one hand, she was praising the NHS for the care she had when the child was born. I'm sorry, I don't know their name. but on the other hand she then sued the NHS for a considerable sum of money I understand because the child wasn't born with the care or looked after with the care it deserved. Now I don't know the facts of the case that's only what I'm hearing myself so I don't know whether that's true but that's certainly what we're being told. So again well which is it Angela and whatever the facts of that was and the sad facts she has a child that did get a huge award and we're being told that she's used£162 ,000 of the money that that child got to look after, to be looked after, to buy a second or third home, a seaside home down in wherever she was.

39:21Yes, Hove. Hove, there you go. So how hypocritical. It stinks, doesn't it? The whole optics are awful. Why would you let this happen? She's in a position where potentially she could have become the next prime minister of this country. she's always talked about as being the union's darling and you know what, she's thrown it all away and I'm sorry I have no sympathy because politicians need to live by the highest standards and she clearly hasn't done that. Sarah Pochin, thank you very much indeed for joining us good luck with your speech tomorrow. Thank you. Guess who we bumped into at the Reform Conference in Birmingham?

39:54Jim Davidson. Imagine that. What are you doing here Jim Davidson? Well Lee's my mate and he said come along. Did he? Lee Anderson? Lee Anderson, yeah, we're best pals, it's great. How long have you known Lee for? Well, we do a lot of fundraising up in Mansfield, where he's from. And we're working together. He's picking my brains about how the party wants to look after veterans. Because I've formed a couple of veterans charities and stuff, so I'm helping them out a little bit like that. I'm still hanging on into the Conservative Party. Oh, really? You're not quite reformed yet? Well, Lee said, the trouble is, Jim, the Conservative Party you fell in love with doesn't exist anymore.

40:31Right. And so I'm doing a bit of forensic study at the moment to see if in fact that is true. What do you think about Angela Rayner's tax arrangements? Well, it's a little complex, isn't it? Especially when there's a special needs child involved. And I think people should be a bit careful of leaping on, you know, the let's have a go at her anyway. If she was the most loved person in the world, this would probably just be smoothed over and okay, it's a mistake. But because people don't like her, people pick an excuse. Any excuse will do to hammer people they don't like. But there is a sense with her of hypocrisy, isn't there?

41:01That she's attacked Tories of wanting to save money on taxes these years. I know, I know. Well, I said on my TV show the other day, and I spoke directly to her on it, and I said, is the juice worth the squeeze? Really, is all this stuff that you're going through worth it? Is it worth it? Step down, have an easy life, go and take care of your son, you know, look after yourself. That's the way I look at it. It's not worth doing it, is it? Is the juice worth the squeeze when it comes to what Graham Linehan is going through to try and protect comedy and jokes about transgender people? What do you think about the way he was treated by the Met Police when he arrived in Heathrow?

41:37He tweeted something about kicking a transgender woman in the balls. No, he didn't say that. He actually said if you're a woman in a woman's space like a toilet and there's a trans woman in there you're not happy with, just punch her or him in the balls. Well, it's not inciting violence because if you're a trans woman, I mean, you don't have balls, do you? Well, you tell me, Jim Davidson. Well, I haven't got many left. They're gone. But are you worried about... They've been shared out in the divorce settlements. Just in terms of the comedy world, are you worried about cancel culture in comedy?

42:08Listen, I'm cancelled. Every council that has a Labour council or a Lib Dem council, I'm basically banned from their theatres. They don't even let the people have a choice. I wouldn't ban anybody from comedy. If you don't want to see them, don't go. Don't buy a ticket. And he's been victimised a bit, hasn't he? five policemen, you know, armed policemen. And he's not a British subject. He's a, you know, he's an Irishman. He's an Irish subject. So what signal does that give the rest of the world? If we don't like what you say from whatever country you're from, we'll have you arrested. I hope I'm not caught on camera laughing at all of that because I'll probably go to prison.

42:42Yes. Even just knowing me, you can go to prison. I feel like an accessory to a crime. Yes. Can you rate Nigel Farage as a performer, as a man who's been on stage a hell of a lot? Well, he speaks well. My mate does an impression of him, Danny Posteal, the impressionist, and he said, you watch Nigel, he looks as if he's tossing a football when he speaks. He's tossing an imaginary football up in the air. And my ex-wife used to say, I'm not sure about that Nigel Farage, you can see his bottom teeth. Is this a bad thing, Jim Davidson? No, it's not a bad thing at all. I think he's a brilliant speaker and he's got a mind as big as that bus there.

43:19He is like an encyclopedia. He's also my friend, he's a great bloke. And he's the real reason. He gives momentum to this party here. He's got some great people, though. I mean, my mate, Lee Anderson, he's just fabulous, fabulous. I've never seen such a down-to-earth man in a position like he has, and I think it can only be good for our country. So why is the jury still out on your Tory-reform support? Why aren't you just fully turquoise? I like the Carlton Club too much. the Tory hangout ladies and gentlemen was for those uninitiated with the Carlton Club in London yeah yeah and I haven't been there for a while because I can't afford to pay my bill this is what happens when you're cancelled in comedy Tim it'll happen to us all one day the trouble is that when you're cancelled from one theatre all the other ones sell out I mean I played something gross box office just under a million quid in the last tour you know so that's not bad for someone who's cancelled because all the other people say we want to come and see you You cannot stop us seeing whoever we want to see.

44:26You know, Chubby Brown, people like that. Jethro, poor old Jethro, who died, the Cornish comedian. My friend Mike Osman is doing a tribute to him. He does a sort of a play impression of Jethro. And a lot of theatres won't have it. They're, oh, no, we don't like that sense of humour. We don't like it, says the 12-year-old PR girl. So 1 ,000 people around that area in that theatre can't go and see what they want to see. It's crazy. Jim Davidson, thank you very much. You're very welcome. Try and get a word in next time. Au revoir from the Reform Conference. The Daily Tea will be back on Monday.

45:21Thank you.