Guitar-slinging Burnham is hitting the wrong notes politically

0:04The Telegraph.

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1:24Britain's problems are mounting up but where's our Prime Minister strumming a guitar and stacking shelves at Sainsbury's? Should we really take Andy Burnham seriously? And is it right to condemn a Labour MP who paid tribute to the five joyriders who caused the death of two policemen in Middlesbrough? Welcome to The Daily Tea with me Camilla Tomini and me Rachel Johnson. This whole joyriding incident with seven dead in Middlesbrough, I thought that was a classic example where actually you would want to see the Prime Minister popping up and yet he's in Ukraine playing a guitar. Now we see him with London Mayor Sadiq Khan stacking shelves at Sainsbury's.

2:07Wear a suit and don't play a guitar, I mean it's basics. It's a classic frenzy and pylon onto somebody who doesn't deserve it. Before we get started, I just wanted to thank all of those of you who have followed us to our new home. Almost 7 ,000 of you have already subscribed. For those of you that haven't, the details are in the description. Just to remind you, we're moving to our own brand spanking new YouTube channel. do come with us all the same content that you love every day at 5 p.m just in a different space so do please click the subscribe button now rachel breaking news as we begin this podcast we think harry and megan and the children have arrived in britain okay we'll be talking about that tomorrow i suppose camilla yeah i love how enthused you are about that along with the third of the country that says they don't know or don't care what harry and megan does i think we're going to add R Johnson Well they are content There's no question about it Well I'll tell you what else has happened In other breaking news Very sad breaking news Dolly Parton I know What's your favourite track Well I liked Jolene Which I spent most of my childhood Confusing I thought she was singing a song About that bleach that you put on your moustache Well, have you seen me?

3:33I never needed it, Camilla. All my body hair just saying and my facial hair has always been baby blonde. I can imagine the Johnsons, basically pseudo albinos. But yeah, I mean, the thing about Dolly Parton is, although she was kind of like parodied in the 80s and 90s for her enormous breasts, frankly, she was somebody much, much, much bigger than that, because she wasn't only the foremost country and Western star of, do you call it country and western what do you call it country yeah country staff she came from the appalachian mountains didn't she and she grew up in a two-room cabin and she turned into the biggest legend i think of american music has produced part melvis who will come from elvis exactly and also i think the joy of her is every journalist that ever interviewed her said she was absolutely delightful had no heirs or graces made no demands of anyone and because of her very humble beginnings her father didn't read and so she set up a charity which sent books around America to children who might not have any access to libraries that then completely snowballed so she probably led the world's foremost sort of literary program but nobody really knew much about it because she wasn't a show-off ironically this great performer tried to lead a very quiet life where just quietly in the background she would help even in like Hurricane Katrina and stuff she'd just and Covid she just gave loads of money very quietly and I think some of the funding that she sent to during the pandemic helped to innovate the Moderna vaccine yeah that is that is true and it was extraordinary really the coverage since her death I mean I think it proves that the death of a celebrity or a singer isn't a trivial showbiz entertainment story it's a it's a global event and yes and when she played Glastonbury in 2014 you could you know you could see that she was overcome by the joy of the occasion and I think that was that was the secret to her she she never forgot I know this is such a cliche that she came from a two-room cabin and her father couldn't read and she made it her mission simply to be a good person and to be the best songwriter one of the best songwriters I mean she's been absolutely acclaimed by everybody from Taylor Swift to Paul McCartney to Mick Jagger yes my favorite song I'm allowed to say of course well I wouldn't have said I'll always love you because I always whenever I say those words I think of Whitney Houston's quivering epiglottis yes her version of it which she wrote and Elvis wanted and Elvis wanted to take half the proceeds of the publishing rights of the song so she retained it and she she sort of licensed it to Whitney Houston and she made tens of millions of pounds from the song but when she sings it gosh can we play it um can we just play the beginning opening bars of it it's absolutely spine chillingly beautiful uh dolly singing it and so that's my favorite and i think that's the one i think that's going to be her sort of epitaph everyone will always love her and she will always love everyone how could you not love somebody like that i totally agree r.i.p dolly parton you brought us all joy and you actually did good and thank you for that now do we also want to play a clip of the other budding musician in the midst right now rachel which is our own prime minister andy burnham now i was traveling back from watching the odyssey with my husband in the car when the footage dropped of him strumming his guitar i think he was trying to sing wasn't it a morrissey song It was quite a difficult track, actually.

7:32It's a real guitar tune. It's a song called Rush Home Ruffians. I'm out of practice. A little bit.

7:45And my husband, who is a guitarist, I'm with the band. I'd just like to point that out. And you've met my husband, so you know he's got a bit of a cool streak. People are surprised. I saw somebody from Westminster at one of Dom's gigs and they were like, sorry, why are you here? And I'm like, my husband's the lead singer of that band. I didn't know Dom was a rock star. This is not a scoop. He's not a rock star, but listen, you know, he does take to the stage sometimes. Is it like Ed Balls in Robert Peston's band? Can I just confirm, he is nothing like Ed Balls or Robert Peston. My God, he's not some tragic band.

8:25Look at Camilla's face while she says that. She is wrinkled with distaste. Anyway, he looked at our own prime minister strumming a guitar in Ukraine and started shouting at the phone and saying that it was really tragic and embarrassing. I mean, others will like it, right? Others will love this sort of, oh, our Andy, king of the north. No. You know, he's at one with Morrissey and Oasis. no I bumped into Dom Nichol yesterday who of course is one of the co-hosts of your sister podcast that Ukraine the latest and I talked to him about it and he brought it up on his own and he said everyone should listen to that podcast as well by the way and he said the Ukraine trip was really good he said you know he did the overnighter and he talked to other world leaders or whatever because it was the 35th Independence Day for Ukraine and a big celebration.

9:18He went to the memorial wall. He made a rising Tertullian speech. And he gave over the blueprints for the storm shadows. And he put in for Ukraine to get Patriot defensive missiles and so on and so on. That was all good. And then Dom Nichols said, and then he picked up the guitar. Yeah. He said, and that. And then he lost the room for them. because it wasn't serious you know this is this story this this situation could not be more serious and I'm afraid Andy Burnham managed to trivialize it into a kind of tick tock one of these kind of blow key tick tocks which I think his his advisors had they been present I know you know he had media with him um they should have told him not to but it's such a fine line away it is a fine line right because on one hand we need a degree of seriousness but not too much seriousness because then you're Keir Starmer and you're actually lacking in charisma and you're boring actually I would like to make this point to you I'm sorry to mention it but it's quite interesting to analyze your brother Boris Johnson on the world stage because although he didn't always cut a serious figure for some reason he was taken very seriously in Ukraine and he was good on the global stage.

10:44Well how did he achieve that? There are squares and pastries named of Bodies Johnson in Ukraine a bit like in Yugoslavia they called their kids Tony Blair. They call their children Boris. He's you know even if he wears a balaclava which he had to when he filmed his documentary Inside the Kill Zone which is uh available on channel five which is really hairy he goes into the kill zone and he talks to people who are in the trenches who are operating the drones he takes it very seriously they take him very seriously this is a completely totemic existential issue not just for boris johnson but for the entire west and i think to turn it into a kind of informal sing-song did trivialize it a bit and i don't think you know my bro would always wear a suit if he arrived in Ukraine off the train off the midnight train where you've been for 13 hours in my case drinking red wine with who was it Tobias Elwood Boris the chief of staff Dame Shelley sorry I'm giving away all the tea no no nice fair enough but no you're right wear a suit and don't play a guitar I mean it's basics I'm wondering whether Andy Burnham is going to struggle a bit moving forward with how he appears statesmanlike when, as you say, he's also trying to crack TikTok because I think his advantage is he's certainly far more charismatic and actually likable than Keir Starmer.

12:17But on the other hand, that might make him look quite lightweight. And one way he's trying to flex his muscles on the global stage is the, in my mind, absolutely ludicrous suggestion that we should now be spending more on foreign aid. So David Cameron had kind of ring-fenced this 0.7 % of GDP, and then he had to be dragged kicking and screaming by the right of the Tory party to reduce that number, with people making the very cogent argument that we've got bigger problems at home and we're running out of money, and let's not start sending, you know, we did stories on The Telegraph, didn't we, sending money to the Indian Space Program and the Ethiopian Spice Girls.

12:59Even Starmer, who is Mr. Foreign Aid, I love Davos, I'm a human rights lawyer, said that we should reduce that number down to 0.5 % and then 0.3%. And now we hear, although Burnham's closest aides have sort of tried to push back on it, that between him and the new Foreign Secretary, Ed Miliband, who's another guy that doesn't mind spaffing taxpayers' cash, let's be honest, that they want to get this number back up. I looked at this story and I just I'm incredulous, Rachel, that at this time when he's struggling for money and he can't really change anything in the manifesto on tax and borrowing is at an all time high that you would then think I tell you what's a great idea is to spend more money on other countries.

13:45That's madness. I agree. I think that he hasn't managed to sell this at all. And the timing is absolutely terrible. I mean, I hate to mention a rival publication, but the front page of Mail Online is all about how he is going to have to raise wealth taxes, mainly by soaking the homeowners of the South East, London and the South East also, and some other additional raid on pensioners. at a time when come October we heard today energy costs are going to be at an all-time high for all our households and at a time when the tax base is ever shrinking we've got a million 19 to 20 or 18 to 24 year olds who are out of you know who are neat and the idea that we have this additional money when he hasn't managed to conjure up any growth yet in fact the economy is slightly shrinking according to the FT.

14:46It's averaged minus 0.5 a year over the past decade. So the idea that instead of trying to do anything to get the economy going, he's going to come after a shrinking tax base to pay higher taxes in order to send the money overseas cannot be good politics, good economics or even morally the right thing to do. No, the lefty argument is always if you spend more on foreign aid, then it makes other countries better off. And then fewer people want to leave those countries and we'll have less immigration into the UK. Well, that's worked well over the last 20 years, hasn't it? Let's do more of that. I mean, I'm incredulous.

15:29The other story during the rounds when we're speaking about foreign matters is that we think that the Chagos deal might be rearing its head again. So despite Donald Trump saying the deal is dead, and despite the Tories managing to find some ancient international treaty which means that you can't reverse the Chagos you can't reverse the Chagos Islands coming to Britain. I thought the Chagos deal was on indefinite pause. Well I thought it was on an indefinite pause because of this treaty it's the one piece of international law that weirdly Keir Starmer and indeed his former Attorney General Lord Hermer wanted to ignore but that treaty says no you can't give Chagos to the Mauritians so that was all kind of like in the ether and we all thought it was dead I mean I just thought the deal was dead, right?

16:11If the US don't support it, it's over. And because of... In a way, that gets Andy Burnham off the hook for having to execute a terrible plan that's going to cost this country billions of pounds that has been negotiated by Jonathan Pohl. I know, but it has been hinted at that Burnham might want to revisit it. Meanwhile, we've got two sources in the Mauritian government telling the Telegraph that the country was planning to use the UN General Assembly to force the issue and pressure the new prime minister into proceeding with the deal. But presumably that's because they'd already sort of pre-spent the money that they were going to get for the rental of the Diego Garcia military base.

16:49Goodness only, Rose. But wasn't it brought into sharp focus because of the Iran war and the idiocy of us not supporting things? But I suppose how are we evaluating Andy Burnham kind of in his pre-dispatch box era? Because I feel like, well, I feel like he's a little bit MIA. I get the whole oh great I'm going to do a tour of the UK and start putting on hard hats and eating Cornish pasties and going to Gregg's but actually and we're going to get onto this in a minute this whole joyriding incident with seven dead in Middlesbrough I thought that was a classic example where actually you would want to see the prime minister popping up and yet he's in Ukraine playing guitar now we see him with London Mercedes Khan stacking shelves at Sainsbury's I mean you know it's all very politician of the people but is it actually a little bit cringe well what I think we're seeing in what you call the pre-dispatch box days which have been relatively short I mean we only hit his one month anniversary as prime minister last Friday because I did an hour on the radio about it and people were ringing in and just saying you know that everything he was doing was very micro and not macro that you know he hadn't zoomed out yet it was all about kind of whether 16 to 17 year olds could could travel by bus for free in greater Manchester still and a lot of what felt like and sounded like local politics whereas he is now on the national stage and I think what we've seen is he is he's finding his footing to put it kindly when it comes to to being to statecraft to for international relations to foreign wars and all these things and I'm not I don't think I'm afraid that this is his natural wheelhouse his wheelhouse is local politics it's buses it's um you know licensing it's roads rail transport pensioners mental health these are all really important issues and you build a country from you know local and personal politics up i completely get that but i think this is exposing that the foreign aid story, I think the guitar in Ukraine story, the Chagos story are all exposing his actual previous probably lack of interest in these issues.

19:21So he's going to take far longer to be competent and to be persuasive and to carry the country with him. And this is where I think Kemi, who, you know, she's been with Georgia Maloney in Italy. She knows exactly what she thinks about everything. She spent months, do you remember, not bringing out her policy, not saying very much, because she really wanted to know what she thought. And I fear that when we come to the despatch days of Andy Burnham, he will be exposed for not having any focus on these issues, not having any interest in these issues prior to becoming prime minister. I was just trying to imagine then Badenock appearing somewhere with a ukulele, and it just would not happen.

20:04So what we're concluding at the moment is that Burnham is strumming while Britain burns. And coming up next, we are going to discuss whether it is right to mourn the joyriders who killed two police officers.

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22:09Rachel, the latest on the Joyriders is that, according to The Telegraph, gang rivalry led to A66 crash in town terrorized by feuds. So we'd already reported that the five young men who were unfortunately killed in this crash along with two police officers, had 37 convictions between them. And community leaders have now said to our newspaper that locals were too scared to report crime as five more people were arrested in connection with the fatal collision. So we've got people saying that balaclava-clad gangs of joyriding youth had become normal in the local area. So just to confirm, the police have now made 17 arrests following that fatal crash which occurred on Saturday night.

22:58It killed PC Tom Clough, who is 38, PC Matthew Blades, 37, as well as Michael Carhill, 23, Jacob Matusiak, who is 23, Mackay Saddington, 18, Theo Ray, 17, and Cole Worthy, 17. There was a head-on collision because the group of young men were travelling the wrong side of a dual carriageway. and we have got some evidence that some of those people who were killed had previously recorded reckless driving and posted it to social media. It's also emerged that a house where one of the people who died, Wervey's father lived, was rammed by a Volvo SUV in an alleged gang feud shortly before the youth started driving through the town at high speed in that Volkswagen Passat.

23:49on monday mask youths riding quad bikes and off-road motorbikes released balloons blared horns and set off flares in memory of matusiak in south bank near where the crash happened the sky was filled with smoke balaclava clad youths rode scooters off-road bikes and quad bikes around the field other friends of the victims have defaced three community centers in middlesbrough with anti-police graffiti and tributes to the dead youths there are no plans to remove the graffiti over fears it could provoke a backlash from use. I don't know about you, but this is giving me the distinct impression that the five young men who died were local terrorways that probably should have been under ASBOs at the very least.

24:33Yeah, I mean, I don't think we can call them meat. They were what we used to call ASBOs. I think, though, that the... I've looked at the Telegraph story. There are about 3 ,500 comments now. and the anger is directed against the red car mp anna turley who on monday posted on facebook a quite long post which she i mean i might just read out a tiny bit of it where is it um she said and this is what people are furious about and just before we get to her post i would argue that the fury is misplaced yes it was i think inappropriate possibly her to use the word tragedy with regard to all seven of those who died in this terrible incident but according to Anna Turley herself she was asked by the Cleveland police to make to to pay tribute or to say something marking the deaths of all of them that has not been confirmed or denied by by the police force but what she said was this morning I went down to South Bank to lay flowers and pay my respects on behalf of our whole community to the seven people whose lives were so tragically cut short yesterday there really are no words for the heartbreak their families friends and loved ones will be feeling today may you all rest in peace she goes on to name the two policemen I also want to pay tribute to PC Matthew Blades and PC Tom Clough who were serving our community and should have come home from their ships she did not name check the the five miscreants who also lost their lives in in this incident what she calls terrible incident I think you know look it was it was probably silly of this of the local MP to think that she had to take to social media at this point before the fact of the case were established and I think it's a classic frenzy and pile-on onto somebody who doesn't deserve it who did something in good faith it was clumsy the word tragically I think has gone down very badly in the community I would also say that this stands up what you were saying entirely about problems he needs Andy Burnham needs to look at problems at home since that that case the fact that there are these joyriders that the huge amount of gang county lines criminal activity that has been exposed by this story now the country knows that these places are uh you know absolute hives of criminal dangerous scary activity neighborhoods live in fear nobody wants to report them to the police in case of reprisals the fact that she then put a facebook post is not the problem what the problem is societal it's not the fact that anna turley put a post on post on facebook and the fact remains that the families of those five teenagers and and youths will also be bereaved and grieving and i'm sorry but you know we live in a largely christian country and i think it's only right to acknowledge the grief of the bereaved at the same time we pay tribute to the to the service and the loss of life of the two officers who died in the line of duty.

28:00I'm conflicted about Anna Turley because I know her and I like her a lot and I used to play football with her and I know that she is somebody with quite a big heart. Nick Timothy's stuck the boot in. He's the Shadow Justice Secretary saying it didn't feel right for a Home Office minister to honour the lives of the five joyriders. Four of them, he points out, had 37 convictions between them the only person who didn't have any convictions was car hill who was one of the five that died i agree with you that there is nothing uh remotely sort of progressive in any sense of the word or or morally upstanding about dancing on the graves of young men who have died and i agree with you that as a parent obviously you look at a situation like that and your heart does go out to the parents because they've lost a son and that's horrendous having said all that I do think that we are fast in danger of actually killing young people with kindness and it doesn't just apply to this first of all these young men appear to be a symptom of petty crime not being taken seriously enough anymore I mean we mentioned asbos what have happened to asbos I mean are they still handed out but were they ever a deterrent well I feel that if you've got probably every community in the UK has got a bunch of largely young men, possibly also some young women, terrorising the local community.

29:25We encounter these people ourselves in our everyday lives. Quite recently, near where I live, a couple of these types of people threatened my son with a knife and tried to take his mobile phone. So we know these people exist. We look at the photograph of one of the victims sort of doing these signs, gang signs, that I don't even begin to understand. They're all doing that. So we immediately get a measure of them. I mean, you say they're not in education or employment. They are involved in criminality, so they have a job of sorts. And by the way, if Alan Milburn's interim report suggests that the number of NEETs is going to go up to 1.2 million, you're going to have a lot of young men aged 16 to 24 who aren't in education or training and have to make some money somehow and may fall into a life of crime.

30:14But why don't we, again, we don't want to kick people while they're down, but I look at these situations and I ask myself one central question. The age range is 17 to 23. Some of the men are old enough to know better. The age of criminal liability in the UK is 10, so maybe they're all old enough to know better. Where are the parents? Where are the parents when these kids are probably terrorised by their own children. Maybe, but we constantly have this. We constantly have this kind of hand-wringing about, oh, well, people who haven't been given enough opportunity who are living in deprived areas.

30:53And your response to that is, well, a lot of those people don't resort to crime. A lot of those people don't resort to terrorising the local community. And by the way, a lot of those people have a little bit more respect for officers of the law that lost their lives in the line of duty to start memorialising extremely publicly with balloons and smoke and graffiti, four blokes who decided to get in a car and drive the wrong way down the A66. They used that car as a weapon and that weapon ended up killing two men in uniform. And the irony here is, is if it's a result of a kind of much more liberalised policing of young people, then my goodness me, because we've seen this before, you know, we've had a discussion recently about the early release of the killers of PC Harper, who again were a similar kind of sort of young person doing gang signs and involved in petty criminality.

31:51And you're thinking to yourself, more liberalised policing may have resulted in three officers being killed. How does that get anyone anywhere? Do you think this is a sign that, you know, police are policing tweets and or, you know, there's two tier policing and they're terrified of being accused of any form of racism and they aren't tackling the problems under their nose. They're tackling a problem online and they're taking edicts from on high on DEI and they're policing by edict and they're policing online. And in fact, what they should be doing is policing the streets a lot more toughly, you know, but get a bit more taxi driver about it.

32:31Sure. I think just as there are cultural sensitivities around the policing of young black men. I think there are cultural sensitivities around the policing of young white men who are from, let's describe them as difficult homes. And that's ironic because there was no such grace given to the young white girls who were raped during the grooming gang scandal, point one. Point two, weirdly, officers are policing the tweets of people like our colleague Alison Pearson and yet seemingly not policing young people encouraging others on websites like TikTok to drive their vehicles the wrong way down an A road.

33:13And we know that this happened in Ireland as well because in County Kildare, there was that mass pileup which was precipitated by exactly the same quest for clicks and likes. Do you think that we can trace or track this back to the issue we discussed earlier about overseas aid and how we should be tackling the problems at home? And the evidence is that in education, it's white British boys in state system are the most left behind sector of the of the of the educational cohort. and nobody talks about it and we presumably the the five young men and teenagers who lost their lives absolutely fit into that rubric they were probably left school at 16 goodness knows how many o levels or gcscs they had together let alone a levels they had maybe i know they were driving without insurance but you know did they have driving licenses it's this problem of we need to tackle our problems upstream before they come downstream in this country before maybe we tackle the problems of you know the economic the drought you know to prevent migrants coming over here in other countries we have equal problems here that are not getting any attention and maybe this story this Middlesbrough catastrophe particularly of course for the poor policemen who lost their lives and there was a very respectful vigil for them compared to the very raucous vigil with people in Biala Clava sitting off lairs for the younger the young men who who managed to kill them maybe this will be a turning point where we realize that actually we're heading for a real crisis when it comes to youth unemployment when it comes to what the who is left behind by the education system if the people who are left behind by the education system have no prospect of employment on my point because you made a joke earlier in the podcast like this could be one of your sons could it you think one of your sons would terrorize a local community age group not in terms of whether they would ever do something like this no i wouldn't imagine any of your children would do anything like yeah but why is that because we parented because we parented them properly i mean again i'm sorry this is an unpopular opinion perhaps but i'm if your children go this far off the rails ultimately you can blame them but you have yourself to blame you have to blame yourself so do you think the parents should be indicted for some neglect or irresponsibility as well no because the boys are always already of age but i think we should have a discussion they're dead but i think we should have a discussion in this country i think we a more open discussion about whether people in general and by the way this isn't necessarily a class issue because we can have lots of pseudo-aristocratic and well-meaning middle-class parents parenting their children appallingly and you know what there for the grace of god go i because i got two of my three children going to reading this weekend and i've had to do all of the speeches about alcohol and drugs and safe sex which has been met with a load of eye rolling you know can you imagine shut up mum we know we know but it's I have some confidence in them going at least being responsible not only to themselves but to others because that's how we brought them up I mean if you are in a situation where you've got a child driving the wrong way down an a road and could literally kill anyone then I think you've got to ask some very very serious questions of yourself.

37:04It's not just that these parents of these boys or young men, it's the fact that they've got no prospects. The one they have not survived education very well, or they haven't had a very good, decent one, nobody's cared. The only life they thought was available to them was a life of crime. I mean, that is the problem here. Not the fact that the parents dropped the ball. it's the it's the fact that they came from deprived families in a deprived area they didn't have a good education so there was failure on all fronts i'm not saying they're sorry but lots of people come look at we started this conversation on dolly parton you can come from trailer she can come from trailer trash so the loving and the supportive she was a god-fearing appellation young lady this is my point that you can have nothing and yet you can bring up your children in a culture of respect for yourself and respect for others and that was and we're still seeing disrespect because all of these young tykes mates are rubbing the families of the police officers is faces in it i'm sorry they are yeah no no and it's it's utterly reprehensible and ugly scenes but I would suggest that you know you we you spend longer on this subject with maybe of Matthew Goodwin goodness knows one doesn't want to use his name necessarily but he has done a lot of work on the white British dispossessed underclass that has been left behind by Woke and DEI and I do think that is playing a part here.

38:44Let's just read out a few readers comments Rachel because as you said earlier there were thousands and thousands of comments on these stories about the joyriders so chris devine says the police officers were in effect murdered to equate their death with the people that killed them is a national disgrace this mp is not fit to hold any public office but then contrary to that nicholas dawson i am not a labor supporter but i genuinely think that this local mp has meant the best for all in her comments and nick timothy is the one trying to score points by commenting as he has this is not a case of recognizing the five youths at the same level as the tragic death of the two police officers it is recognizing the unnecessary tragedy called by this incident this is not a case of recognizing the five youths at the same level as the tragic deaths of the two police officers it is recognizing the unnecessary tragedy caused by this incident for the family and friends of all those who have lost their lives i struggle to find a single humane comment underneath that story and it could perhaps the animus against the red car mp is also derived from the fact that she's sorry to laugh she's in charge of our borders um and she's the act she's currently you know her job is asylum and borders i think and i think maybe there's a lot of referred anger towards her for the fact that we have seen such shocking scenes on the south coast i mean yes i know the home office is saying that boats are down 40 % on the year.

40:19But it doesn't look like that when you've got these super boats carrying hundreds of people arriving. I think you're right. You're saying that the reaction to this, the visceral reaction from law-abiding people, is because people are growing not just frustrated but actually very, very worried about a sense of lawlessness in Britain, either homegrown or imported. yeah i mean if we're going to import tens of thousands of young men as you described yesterday with with um isabel oakeshott and that brilliant reporter christian drogan i think um and not knowing who they are and give them the red star treatment when they arrive it's you know you have the sense of you know the country has got its priorities back to front and it does need to take care of business at home first before it spends hard-earned money, which doesn't have, debt has hit a trillion now.

41:17Rachel, we're going to be back tomorrow, 5pm, where I have a feeling we may need to return to the topic of the month, Harry and Megan.

41:48The more you listen to your kids, the closer you'll be. So we asked kids, what do you want your parents to hear? I feel sometimes that I'm not listened to. I would just want you to listen to me more often and evaluate situations with me and lead me towards success. Listening is a form of love. Find resources to help you support your kids and their emotional well-being at SoundItOutTogether.org. That's SoundItOutTogether.org. Brought to you by the Ad Council and Pivotal. A-Cast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show we recommend. Hi, I'm Ronnie. And I'm Ben. Our podcast is Watch What Crappens.

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