His final u-turn: Tearful Starmer resigns with ‘gaslighting’ exit speech

0:02The Telegraph.

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1:28Camilla: Keir Starmer resigns as Prime Minister in tears and gives a speech gaslighting a nation. Andy Burnham has already announced his leadership campaign and West Streeting is backing him. We're here outside number 10 on this historic day. Welcome to The Daily Tea with me Camilla Tomini and me Tim Stanley.

1:55Camilla: Tim, it's the ultimate U-turn from Keir Starmer. On Friday, I know it's horrible, but I'm sorry it is true. He was doomed the moment he said he had full confidence in himself. Indeed so. So on Friday he says, I'm not going anywhere. And then this morning the lectern is out. We're in Downing Street. Only for him to say, actually, I am going somewhere. I'm resigning. This just feels like deja vu. How often have we seen this? It's depressing. Very often on a sunny day except for Rishi Sunak. He's the only one who got rained on but the sun comes out, the staff come out, the family comes out, hot lectern guy comes out to put the lectern in the middle of the street.

2:31Camilla: Do you mean he's hot because of the temperature or he was actually quite hot? No I think there is a consensus within Westminster that he is hot lectern guy. He's probably actually got a PhD in politics from the University of Harvard but he's been reduced by a tawdry journalist to hot lecto and guy. You've got to start somewhere, haven't you? Working his way up from the bottom. I imagine that you're going to be more charitable about the speech than I am. I mean, I was at this morning where only last week Keir Starmer was in the studio saying that he was going to remain prime minister for the time being.

3:02Camilla: And then today we all gathered around screens and I did think it was emotional and I did slightly well up. I've got to be honest. when he, his voice cracked when he referenced his wife Victoria and his beautiful children. Let's just have a listen to that, Tim. I want to thank the brilliant Number 10 staff and our country's extraordinary civil service who dedicate their lives to public service. And when I leave the biggest job in the country, I shall spend more time on the most important job. being the best husband I can to my fantastic wife, Vic, who has been a rock by my side through good times and bad, and being the best dad I can to my beautiful children who are my pride and my joy.

3:52Thank you very much. Every man deserves their dignity.

3:57Camilla: Yes. And watching a Prime Minister fall, however comical, is like seeing an elephant fall off a unicycle. Yes. Right. It's both funny but also desperately tragic at the same time. You look at it and you think politics is so brutal. But the thing is, prime ministers spend their whole time keeping themselves together because they have to. Very often, Theresa May was the same, the only time when they seem to crack is when talking about themselves. Yes. And that's both very sympathetic. I get it. You think about yourself. If you're at a funeral or something and you suddenly start talking about the deceased and what they meant to you.

4:34Camilla: Yes. The tears come. Yes. But when we see someone for two years and all we ever see is stiff upper lip, and it's when they finally talk about themselves that they cry, that's why many people are cynical. Yeah. Because they think you're crying because you lost. Yes. I don't think that's true. I honestly think this is, I think we saw the real Keir Starmer. This is one of the most normal and ordinary people who's been prime minister. That's part of the problem. That's part of the problem. He's not good at politics. He would shut the door on a Friday night. He would keep the Shabbat with his Jewish family.

5:04He liked to watch football with his friends to unwind. He wouldn't discuss politics out of hours. I think we saw some of the real Keir, someone raised by a father who was emotionally very withholding. We know that too. A mother who was disabled. He made tools, right? So this is someone with that classic kind of buttoned up upbringing who's trying to keep his private life away from the public. And so I think what you see there is the real man. But a lot of people will be saying, I'm sorry Keir, that's two years too late.

5:31Camilla: Well, some will be saying that. Let's make the case for that. Let's make the case for what I think was a speech that did rather gaslight the public. I mean, he's listing all of Labour's successes in inverted commas. An economy that is stronger, growing faster than our peers. Wages rising faster than inflation in every single month since we came to power. Investment secured, infrastructure being built. An end to austerity with the fastest fall in NHS waiting lists for 17 years. The biggest improvement in rights for workers and renters in a generation. The biggest uplift in defence spending since the Cold War.

6:15Small boat crossings falling. Asylum hotels closing. Protecting young people from social media. and half a million children being lifted out of poverty because of the choices that I made. Our reputation in the world restored, with Britain once again standing up for decency, respect and the rule of law. Securing trade deals, standing with Ukraine, standing up for our values and rebuilding our relationship with our allies in Europe.

6:52Camilla: A lot of them can be completely debunked. This whole idea that he's improved our standing on the international stage. We look absolutely ridiculous right now. But say if you were to take a sympathetic view, isn't it interesting that people will only now, as he's resigned, be sympathetic? This is like Gordon Brown. Do you remember when he came into Downing Street behind us here? He was with his wife and his boys. And suddenly he looked human. This is the problem with politicians like Starmer. It's a bit like Theresa May. They appear so robotic that when they finally show that they're human, everyone cocks their head to the side and goes, oh, bless him.

7:26Camilla: But actually, let's look at the catalogue of errors on his watch, which, by the way, he didn't acknowledge in this speech. No. He gave us this kind of text on my phone. Bring it up because he gave us the best of Labour as far as he could tell it. Right. He gave us the fastest growing growth in the G7. He gave us half a million children lifted out of poverty. It's the bingo card. Ka-ching. Go on, list the other ones. Our reputation in the world restored. Really? Go on. Actually, that's all I wrote down. Is it? Yeah. There were other ones about, you know, various different policies. And wasn't it telling, even last week in one of his final interviews, he said that what he was most proud of was scrapping the two-child benefit cap.

8:07Camilla: Well, hang on a minute. You were forced into doing that by your Labour backbench. Actually, his premiership, unfortunately, has been characterised by complete and utter abject weakness. And as for restoration of our reputation in the world, one of the most extraordinary aspects of his downfall is that Donald Trump announced it before he did. Yes. Which is humiliating for him and for the country. Indeed. And Trump, of course, announced it in the way that you might announce a celebrity divorce on morning television. He's finished. Keir Starmer's gone. It's so sad. People think I should run Britain.

8:42I'm too busy running Iran. And that was not good for him or for us. And is our reputation on the world restored by seeing us go through this cycle of prime ministers who, despite having a massive majority, despite knowing what they have to do, you've got ministers quitting, saying you need to cut welfare to spend more on defence, that he still goes. That is what makes us look silly on the world stage. And showing up to endless summits with your My Little Pony lunchbox does not count for great power.

9:13Camilla: This is the other thing. So he wants to remain in place for the next three months because he's got the NATO summit and the other summit. One's at the beginning of July, one's at the end. Isn't he going to look rather silly going to one at the end of July if this is fait accompli? And second of all, what are we to infer from him saying, and I thought it was interesting that he was taking back some control, to use a Brexity phrase for a Remainer, but there you have it, where he said, right, well, I will consult with the National Executive Committee. but basically I want this leadership race to start on July the 9th and I want it to finish at the end of the summer recess.

9:47Camilla: I will remain Prime Minister in the meantime and we had shades of this by the way in the papers on Sunday this idea that maybe he and Burnham have discussed this with a view to a smooth transition because they want to avoid what Jackie Smith was on the round this morning talking about the chaos and confusion of the Tories. By the way Labour newsflash the public thinks you're just as shambolic. Please don't kid yourselves into thinking that the public can delineate between you and chaotic Tories. They can do the collapse of a government in a dignified way, like a waiter dropping eight plates at once, thinking in that microsecond, I can drop all this food on the floor in a way that doesn't make me look daft.

10:28Camilla: But didn't you think that this was actually Starmer striking back and saying, no, Andy Burnham you're not just going to come down here like Game of Thrones the King of the North enters Westminster and walk into my job that is not the way this works I'm a stickler for the rules the country hasn't elected you most of them outside Manchester don't know who the hell you are or what you stand for and by the way we're Westminster watchers and we don't know what he stands for because one minute he stands against Brexit the next he's for it one minute he stands for trans women and women. The next, he stands for the Supreme Court judgment.

11:03Camilla: He doesn't know the fiscal rules. He does know the fiscal rules. This guy's career has been built on sand, as far as I can tell, whatever. Isn't Starmer saying, come on, guys, you come in, streeting, can'ts, John Healy, if you want to, Angela Rayner, you come in and challenge him. He's not just going to get this job by walking straight from Canal Street to Downing Street. Well, what Starmer did not mention in the speech was Andy Burnham or Makerfield. No. He tried to frame it as, I have had conversations with MPs, I've listened to the parliamentary party and I realise I can't. So he didn't mention the man who has caused all of this.

11:38And as some are saying this morning, I think it's a clever observation, in a way Starmer was finished when the NEC said that Andy Burnham could run in Makerfield. Yes. So for the last few weeks, he ought to have known he was already done.

11:50Camilla: Yes. So he didn't mention Burnham in this. Instead, he laid out a timetable, as you say, concluding in September. That's very much to the Labour Party's advantage. Why? Because what's not going on in summer during that period? Parliament. What will also not be going on is government, because that's what happens in a leadership contest. Everything shuts down. So there won't be parliament by which Kemi Betonov can humiliate him during the period that his leadership is evaporating. What will happen after September? After that date? Conference. Yes. So there will be a conference that will crown whoever has won.

12:24Victory lap conference. In other words, Starmer has both regained some agency because he said, I'm still going to be prime minister for three months.

12:33Camilla: Yes. Which is a long time for a lame duck to be in charge. Yeah. I'm going to set out the timetable, which means I'm going to watch all over all of this like Pontius Pilate. And I will get a nice farewell conference in which people say you did great things, but on your way. And I get to secure my legacy as an international statesman by attending summits. He gets to travel the globe. Exactly. but he's also not saying this is about handing over to Burnham. Just to say that while we're recording this, obviously we're waiting, we are waiting and we are watching for breaking news and we have some now, Tim.

13:05Camilla: This is the Andy Burnham. This is the shock of the morning, ladies and gentlemen. Andy Burnham has announced his leadership bid. So what are we now? 11 o 'clock, 19 minutes after the Prime Minister resigns, Burnham's in like Flynn. And the frustrating thing about Labour is it behaves exactly like the Tories, but it assumes it has angelic motivation. Yes. And worse than that, it thinks that the... Oh, one second. David Lammy is just walking out of number 10. Oh, hello. He's giving an interview to someone else. He's smiling. We'll try and grab him. By the way, let's just read out Andy Burnham's message very quickly.

13:41Camilla: Keir has given huge service to our country, and I want to thank him for his leadership and dedication during such a challenging period. Do you really? Such a challenging period. His decision marks the beginning of a transition, and it is important that this process is conducted in an orderly and responsible way. I will put myself forward as part of this process. The country expects stability, seriousness, and a continued focus on the issues that matter most, and that is what it will get. As we move forward, our priority must be to work together to get the country back to where we want it to be.

14:13Camilla: People want to see progress on economic growth, cost of living, public services, housing and opportunities for the next generation. Political change should never distract from the responsibility to improve people's lives. The labour movement has always been at its strongest when it looks forward with confidence and purpose. This is what we will do from here and we will make sure this transition is a positive process of renewal for our party and our country. Is he therefore saying that he can't really have a coronation because that's not really in the spirit of this, is it? He would like to have one, though.

14:44If it is a competitive election, then the next prime minister will be selected by Labour Party members and trade unions. If it's not, then the next leader will be selected by parliamentary MPs. My point is, as I was saying, Labour always assumes that its motivations are angelic and that the rest of the country thinks they're angelic, that they agree. But what many people will be saying is, you have changed your prime ministers, my prime minister, without involving me.

15:13Camilla: Yeah, I didn't get a vote. I've not been part of this thrilling conversation about policy. It's entirely internal. And now you are stitching it up. You're choreographing it so that, in theory, Andy Burnham can just walk into it. Who was Andy Burnham elected by? Makerfield. That's it. Which is a bit like him being elected by his mum. Yes, that's right. And some of his cousins, his brother and sister. And his nieces and nephews. He was born just down the road. His kids go to school there. It is the easiest way to get into Parliament imaginable. He's increasingly get the impression he's getting high on his own supply.

15:45Camilla: That because it was such a resounding victory in Makerfield. He thinks he's tapped into something. He thinks this is part of the country. Most of the country don't know who this guy is. They don't know what he stands for. And by the way, can we please remind everybody of the polling which shows that the more that the public sees of Andy Burnham, they lessly like him. So when he announced his candidacy for Makerfield, he was on plus 11, I think, and now he's on minus nine. Do you want to know who Telegraph readers would like to succeed Keir Starmer? I can guess. Andy Burnham's on 12 percent. Wes Streeting's on 13.

16:18Camilla: John Healy's on 19. Ed Miliband is on 3 percent. We'll get on to him in a minute and whether he's going to be chancellor. I don't think so, Ed. Shabana Mahmood is on 19 percent. Angela Rayner's on 3 percent. Who's the favorite? Al Kahn's Al Kahn's 33 % I think we've helped with that because he did well on the Daily Tea with us didn't he he did but that's because he acknowledged the material problems facing the country well it's also because he was once a Tory running out of money wants to spend more on defence that probably has to come off welfare that's why he's doing well because you can still talk to people as adults you don't just have to say to them I like football do you like football I like football too you should probably vote for me we're all in together because we like football yeah I'm going for a pint People are not idiots.

17:01They want to know what you're going to do for their schools, their hospitals, etc.

17:15Let's talk about how we got here today, how Keir Starmer got here. I'll tell you how I got here by train, which broke down in the tunnel in the middle of the speech. With a load of schoolchildren on it. With a load of schoolchildren singing the wheels on the bus. Tim phoned me and people were literally screaming.

17:26Camilla: Kids were screaming in the background and he had 300 words to write, which is always fun. It's so delightful to see that no one else cares. It's really reassuring. How do you find it reassuring? Do you realise the Prime Minister has resigned? No, they don't. While the Prime Minister was talking, of course, a moron was playing Ode to Joy on their idiotic ghetto blaster. Hang on, can I just say, I did speak to that moron, Steve Frey, and do you know why he chose Ode to Joy in that particular version by Rue? Right. Because Keir Starmer once told LBC that was his favourite song. Oh, so it was a tribute.

17:56Camilla: It was a tribute. Steve loves Keir Starmer because they're both complete Romaniacs. You're joking. No. That was a tribute. That was a tribute. I know it sounded, because it made it look faintly ridiculous. It was the same as Rishi Sunak in The Rain. Drowning out someone's funeral with their favourite song. Yes. What an idiot that man is. I know, I know. Oh, hang on, we've got more news. Yeah. Hang on, John, our producer, is pointing to us. He's going to give it to us. Look at this. This is journalism. This is journalism happening live, folks. Let's just see. West Streeting has said. Oh, West Streeting.

18:27Camilla: Hang on. What have you done to your phone? Oh, I've shared John's case. contact right boomer alert no i've got it i've got it keir starmer led us to general election victory that no one thought possible he kept us out of the war in iran blah blah blah let's just get to the crunch what are you saying here no one thought possible against rishi sunak what's he saying in this john he's backing andy burnham well there you go so street one step closer to streeting is out of the race and we know why this is by the way although there was some briefing over the weekend. Oh, he wants to be Foreign Secretary.

18:58Camilla: No, he doesn't. He wants to be Chancellor. And it looks like he's going to beat Ed Miliband. That's why he was talking about economics recently. He's been talking about economics. He's been talking about the importance of not spooking the markets, because by the way, Andy Burnham has spooked the markets by saying he doesn't know what the fiscal rules are. And also, there has been a huge amount of momentum, pardon the pun, within the Labour movement, both MPs and the unions against Ed Miliband. Sharon Graham, the General Secretary of Unite, has said, no, we don't want Miliband because he keeps on costing with his net zero zealotry jobs in the North Sea and beyond.

19:31Camilla: So this looks as if Streeting now is going to lend his votes. He says he's got 81 MPs supporting him. He doesn't because if he did, he would have moved earlier or maybe he hasn't because of Makerfield. But the point is, he lends all of that to Burnham and that gives Burnham a huge boost, doesn't it, Tim? Of course it does. Yeah. Yeah. But let's talk about how we got where we are because Starmer wants to talk about that. West Streeting mentioned there the election victory that no one thought was possible. That was when the Tories were desperately unpopular and really anyone could have beaten them.

19:59And the election victory was actually 35 % on a low turnout. So it was a really rubbish election victory. It was more the win the realms of possibility. Loveless landslide. It's like someone dribbling a ball into an empty goal.

20:13Camilla: That's right. But Starman made a lot in this speech about what he'd achieved in the past in terms of modernising the party. And historians may well agree with that. When on paper it does looked like he took Corbyn's party and turned it into a modern professional party. Listen, he did do well to expel the anti-Semites. He did, but the party had also been reduced to a rump by the 2019 election. That's one reason why Keir Starmer became its leader. Other people who might have been a better leader, like Ed Balls, who's very popular right now, they were out of Parliament. Is he? He lost in 2015. Okay, you know what I mean, you know what I'm saying here.

20:46So in other words, the Labour Party was having to select from a small group of people and they needed a reasonable soft left moderate to run against a crazy left-wing candidate like Rebecca Long Bailey. In other words, he got the leadership by default. He was then given the golden opportunity of COVID, a period during which, it's true, no one looked at the Labour Party. But it meant also that we didn't have to see him and realise how rubbish he was. And he could focus on internal organisation. You may remember that his first conference was just flags on a screen. Oh, yeah, we were there for that, weren't we?

21:20There were flags everywhere.

21:21Camilla: But there was no proper conference. Some of these flags weren't racist anymore. He just flew loads of flags. Patriotism. I believe in Britain. Yeah, and he famously said, I'm always standing in front of a flag. And I'm going to put the country first. I'm going to put the country first. The national interest before my own interest, which he hasn't really done, but anyway. So everything he did, he expelled Jeremy Corbyn. But once you had done that, the left wing of his party just shriveled away. And it became much easier to remake it in his image. Although he was still stuck, again, with a small group of people, many of whom occupied jobs, they should have been the tier below of.

21:50Rachel Reeves should not have been Chancellor, for instance. So he then has the benefit of the collapse of the Tory party, the desperate unpopularity of Boris Johnson, which he played very well, although he laid a trap for himself by constantly talking about virtue and standards in politics, which was something he just, no Prime Minister can maintain.

22:09Camilla: He put himself on that pedestal and then was promptly knocked off it when it emerged that Lord Ali had spent a load of money on his glasses and his suits. Right, right. But he made the classic Labour mistake of thinking, country hates us. Only way I can win is by saying nothing at all. This was the equivalent of Neil Kinnock winning in 1992 when he was saying nothing. Yeah. But this time around it worked because the Tories were even more unpopular than John Major. So he came in with, on the one hand, a blank check. Yes. Really could have done anything. Massive majority. So much he could have done.

22:43Camilla: Promising change on the manifesto. But on the other hand, no strategy for government. No. No plan. He lost one of his key lieutenants within weeks. Sue Gray. Sue Gray. He was left with Morgan McSweeney, and it was like only having your right arm. And it also meant that people were able to read into him expectations of what he would do, and therefore the public would be really angry when he did the opposite. Also, let's not forget Peter Mandelson. And then Mandelson, yes. I mean, Mandelson was his party gate. And he was against appointing Peter Mandelson. This is the thing, is some of his instincts were correct.

23:17Welfare reform.

23:18Camilla: I know, but he just didn't stick to his guns, Tim. Supporting Ukraine. Yes. There's something not right about Peter Mandelson. But he folded. I said he's like the Haviana of all politicians. The man's ability to flip-flop is unprecedented. He's pushed around the party. He's pushed around by the cabinet. He's pushed around by everybody. That's what's happened here. And when we talk, by the way, about the political class, can I just make this observation? we've now got the prospect of somebody coming in who wants to be even more popular than Keir Starmer okay they talk about populists on the right there are populists on the left who cannot bear the idea of being unpopular with fellow lefties so they're people who promise everything to everyone and deliver none of it because they can't you know how much can you actually tax and spend before the public turns around and says this is an aberration and you're destroying the British economy yes and And so we have in Burnham somebody, Eyelash McGraw, flutters them, wants everyone to love him.

24:15Camilla: That isn't the good makings of a politician. To be a good politician, you've got to accept that in order to make difficult decisions, half the country will hate you for it. And you've got to just plough through and do it. And what we've witnessed in recent years is a total and utter lack of grip and grit. That's what's depressing me. So I know people always think, oh, God, she's obsessed with Margaret Thatcher. at least the woman said she wasn't for turning and stuck to it. Yes. OK, half the country hated her. They still hate her. We've got effigies of her being put on bonfires on November the 5th.

24:48Camilla: Whatever. She got stuff done. And by the way, at least she could claim credibly, unlike this bloke, that the economy did grow under her watch because it did. You want in a prime minister either someone of firm principles so that even if you don't agree with them, you trust them. Yeah, moral courage. You understand where they're coming from. or you want someone super sexy, charming, who can cry on cue like Bill Clinton. Yes. The problem with Keir Starmer is he was neither. He was unattractive as a personality and we didn't know what he stood for. But to go back to my thesis about the problem of 2019 and how few MPs you've got to work with, it says a lot that they have had to offshore the job of prime minister to Andy Burnham, someone who was not in parliament.

25:28Andy Burnham is nice, has some talents and some ability, but there's a reason why he left Parliament to go and run Manchester. It was because he lost two leadership contests. He is a middle-tier, middle-ranking 2000s politician.

25:43Camilla: That's right. Thanks to Blair, they created this whole strata of devolved government, which is ideal for people like him and Sadiq Khan. Yes. If you only have to carry out your civic duty, cut a few ribbons. It's governing. This is what Nigel Farage said. Open a few envelopes. It is government without responsibility. You're not a legislator. You're there just to spend the money that you've got so you can moan and say I've not been given enough. A classic example, when he was, remember famously during COVID, he was on the phone before a press conference and he saw that they had just imposed some new restrictions.

26:10He was able to say, this is appalling, I'm Andy Burnham and I'm appalled. Easy to do that because he's not making the decisions at the top like Boris Johnson about what should be open or closed. So you have this mediocre strata of politicians who are now being brought in to run the government. What they're not is people of the calibre of Blair or Brown. But we have to discuss not just Starmer's failure, but the character of the parliamentary party itself. You mentioned Margaret Thatcher. He mentioned her a lot in private. He said to people, Margaret Thatcher was really unpopular until the Falklands.

26:40It looked like she was third in the polls. Yes. Because the economic experiment at first didn't look like it was going to work and reduce inflation.

26:46Camilla: Three out of her first four years were a disaster. But she still won three landslides. Yes. And she did that because it doesn't matter what people think about you in between elections. You don't need to like someone. All that matters is that come election time, people look and they do a checklist in their mind of what was good, what was bad. And they go, on balance, this person's all right. And I like them more than nut job Farage or crazy lady Kemi. So he was saying to the PLP people, read your history, understand this. We can still win this thing. What was alarming, it is not unusual to have a bad PM.

27:20It's not unusual to have a bad economy. What is highly unusual is to have a sequence of parliamentary parties, Tory or Labour, that keep throwing out their leader. That's what's not happened in the past.

27:31Camilla: But then that's also suggesting a degree of a lack of moral courage among parliamentarians full stop. That they can't go the distance. That they can't understand that they're not always going to get what they want. Some of them are like children having tantrums. Some of them are in their 20s and 30s. You're trying to cut welfare and I don't want to do that. It's absolutely pathetic. Can I just give you my general election now theory? Lots of people think there won't be a general election because why would Labour be turkeys voting for Christmas? And I think that is probably a good theory. If Burnham is high on his own supply, he may call a snap election for the following two reasons.

28:06Camilla: First of all, he wants to capitalise on his honeymoon bounce because, let's be honest, he'll get into power and if there isn't an election until 2029, that's a long time for him to become even more unpopular. second reason why you might do it is because the Labour Party are the only party in the UK right now ready for an election they've already got candidates in place you cannot say the same of the Tories because they've been reduced to a rump okay the Lib Dems are ready to be fair but then they've become a political irrelevance the Greens aren't ready and let's have a look at their vetting folks because I'm sure they'll get some right characters in same can be said for reform they're going to have a vetting nightmare let's not even get started on restoring who they might get on the slate so in those are two reasons why he might go for it but then that would show i mean extraordinary overconfidence from him maybe it's just better to steady the ship and hope that you can do some things that make you more popular than your predecessor yeah i want to say one more thing about starmer which is this this question of he wasn't that bad so why has he gone after just two years.

29:12Why not wait for him to go after five?

29:13Camilla: I think he was really bad. I'm sorry, Tim, come on. I lived through Liz Truss. Yeah, but hang on a minute. The combination of Keir Starmer and Rachel Reeves' two budgets has been economically calamitous. It has. For businesses in the... Yes, it has, Tim. It's been really bad, but my point is it's not Great Depression bad. It's... It's not throw your Prime Minister out when you've got a massive majority bad. You're comparing things to the Great Depression, which is like an unprecedented once-in-a-century event. OK, apart from the global financial crash of 2008. I mean, OK, so compared to the Great Depression and 2008, it's not that bad.

29:49But that's literally a bit like saying, oh, you know, it's preferable to be stabbed than shot.

29:54Camilla: I mean, it's just, no. They've been disastrous. It's been, his legacy, he thinks, is going to be leading a coalition of the willing. No, it isn't. His legacy is going to be 16 U-turns and 30 resets. It's not been good leadership. He's a bad politician and bless him, he might be a good person, but he's been a terrible Prime Minister. OK, I'm just saying that from a historical perspective, Ted Heath, for instance, had the three-day week. He had trying to bring the country into the common market. He had a recession. No one resigned from Ted Heath's cabinet over policy. I know, but they built people differently then.

30:29They were part of an officer class in the same way that Labour under Jim Callaghan, a minority government with the winter of discontent, didn't kick him out because they were products of the union movement, these people understood discipline. But I think it's not just the parliamentary parties, I think it's the country. We, as a country, need someone to kick. We're angry. We are sick. We had a really bad experience with COVID and we're looking for people to lash out to. We would like someone, once in a while, who is capable of expressing our anger and calming us down and soothing us. The monarchy, whose chief job it is to do that, is absent.

31:07It's AWOL. It doesn't do things like that. It doesn't speak for the nation. It turns up and delivers scripted speeches, but it's incapable of expressing how the country truly feels. In the absence of the death of a church, in the absence of a war, in the absence of serious cultural figures who represent people and speak for them in poetry, all we have is the character of the prime minister onto whom we project our hopes and our fears. And we shouldn't do that. The Prime Minister is ultimately just the King's first minister. They are here today, gone tomorrow politicians. We should cut them some slack.

31:41But Andy Burnham also has to realise he's not Jesus and he's not going to heal our country just because he's from Manchester.

31:47Camilla: Indeed. Amen to that, my friend. Nice breeze now. And on that bombshell, we've got a little breeze. We've been told to wrap. Is there any more breaking news, team, before we wrap this and get this out as soon as possible for our audience? no there isn't so on that note in Downing Street on the day that Keir Starmer resigned it's me and Tim signing out we'll have more fallen frolics on the Daily Tea tomorrow 5pm

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