How to posh up your Christmas with Jacob Rees-Mogg

0:09How do you do Christmas like Jacob Rees-Mogg? He is the embodiment of tradition and good cheer. And on today's Daily Tea, he tells us how to do Christmas the proper way. Welcome to The Daily Tea with me, Camilla Tominey. And me, Tim Stanley.

0:34Camilla, Christmas is an absolute minefield. When are presents supposed to be shared? When do things go up? What do you do with people who are too drunk? And is eggnog naff? These are all very serious festive questions that we need to ask the experts about. And we couldn't be better served. Because in the Daily Tea studio is Jacob Rees-Mogg, the master of all things ceremonial, and Laura Windsor, aptly named because she is the queen of etiquette, to navigate all of those potential pitfalls. Can we begin with a bugbear of mine? Get this out of the way. When is Christmas? What? Christmas is the feast of Christmas Day and the 12 days following.

1:14Thank you. To the feast of the Epiphany. If you want to go on, you will like this, Camilla. When I was answering questions as leader of the house, we had promised to do something by Christmas. And so I found that the last day you could say was Christmas was if you went from the Serbian Orthodox Church, which still runs on the old calendar, you got Candlemas, which is, I think, in the Serbian Orthodox calendar, either the 14th or 15th of February. So you really can take it on quite a long way. And many churches leave things up until quite some way into the new year. Can I just say, when Jacob says Mass, he's saying Mass, just for anyone from north of the M25.

1:54Although he went to Eton, he's saying it the ample fourth way. That's the way that Catholic public schoolboys say it. For the rest of us, it's Mass. But this is an important point because we are talking in Advent and it really irritates me when people say this is Christmas. It's not. This is Advent. And it has its own customs and traditions and Christmas is a very specific time. And it lasts longer. Specify the time. When is it? From what day to what day? The simplest thing is Christmas is the 12 days of Christmas. So rather than the way we do it, which is we spend Advent as if it were Christmas, having parties and getting drunk, and then we hit Christmas Day and it's like we've hit a wall of excess.

2:31And then after that we just feel hung over and we don't quite know what to do with the new year. it should be the other way around. You should be preparing through Advent. Some people would actually fast and pray. And then when you get to Christmas, that's the big celebration. And it lasts 12 days. Can I pick up on the most lowbrow point you made there? You made a reference to people going to Christmas parties and getting drunk. Yeah, yeah. And I just thought I'd ask Jacob, do you go to Christmas parties and get drunk at Christmas? I go to Christmas parties, but I avoid getting inebriated. But you do like, because I've been to one of your parties and you famously once drank champagne out of a tankard.

3:08And I said, why are you drinking champagne out of a tankard? And you said, because it's my party and I'm showing off. Probably, yes. Yes, and you're a lover of Winston Churchill. I'm a great lover of Winston Churchill. People used to drink champagne out of tankards and I think it's a habit that should be encouraged, particularly silver ones. So are you saying that on Christmas morning, Laura, can you confirm or deny that we should be, because I think most families do like a bit of champagne. First of all, is it okay to have champagne on Christmas Day? Second of all, should we be drinking it out of a tankard?

3:39Definitely drink as much champagne as you want on Christmas Day, just so long as you don't get drunk with it. And I would recommend either flute or a coupe. What's a coupe? A coupe is similar to a cocktail glass, but the bowl is slightly lower. Is this the one where you could pour some in the top and it all flows down? Exactly. The ones modelled on Marie Antoinette's breasts. Are they? Allegedly. This is going to be enlightening, I can tell. You should probably ask Zach Polanski about it and whether he has coups that grow in the dark. Well, yes. Could he hypnotise coups that grow? He could turn them into a Jeroboam, couldn't he?

4:17Anyway, if he can turn my champagne into a pint, then he can come to any pint party I've hosted. If you don't have a tankard, I think coups are so elegant. I know that the champagne specialist... The bubbles dissipate very quickly and you have to drink it very quickly. So your coupe over flute? I think they're much more elegant and I'm not too worried about the bubbles dissipating. I don't like things to be too fizzy. Oh, right. Well, it's a drawback to the 1930s, isn't it? That's how they used to drink sparkling anything. Out of tankards? In coupes, right. Churchill was a fan of tankards. That's why you like it.

4:56We imagine Gatsby toasting with a coop. He wouldn't have had a flute in his hand, would he? I don't think they existed then. Beginning with Advent and the run-up to Christmas, Laura, what's your views on Christmas trees, when they should go up, when they should be decorated? Yes, well, traditionally they should be decorated mid-December because in the old days people would buy real fir trees and they wouldn't last that long. So if you think about it, by the time Twelfth Night comes, just about sagging and looking a little bit in difficulty. Just to point out that Jacob's actually on the daily tree.

5:36Can you see a little face anywhere, Jacob? We put you on here as a regular. I think you're going to disagree with Laura because you confessed to me that the decorations in the mog house didn't go up until quite late. They go up quite late, but really you need to interview Helena to find out about the Christmas tree because she takes charge of that. Yes. No, they're up late. But Christmas trees are a relatively modern part of Christmas. Queen Charlotte, George III's wife, has trees brought in, but not a lot follows from that. It's really Prince Albert who brings in the Christmas tree. So I don't think there is a long-standing right or wrong on Christmas trees.

6:17Ours tends to go up late-ish, but then there's one in London that goes up earlier because the children are at school and they like to have a Christmas tree. I mean, I think a lot of things one's ordered about by one's children rather than anything else. Yes, that's the dilemma, isn't it? Two homes and two Christmases to cater for. Jacob, this is a disadvantage, isn't it, to living a gilded life? There are two homes to decorate. You said it's not a very great hardship. No, indeed. It's one I can cope with manfully. Yes, we're playing the world's smallest harp over here in Christmas style. The legend has it the tree was invented by Martin Luther, the German theologian.

6:56The legend is he was walking one day, one evening in the forest, and he looked up and saw some stars gathering around the top of a fir tree. And he decided to bring one home for his children and to put candles in it to remind children that Jesus came from heaven, because they would see it and see stars, hence star on the top of a tree. You've raised a really interesting point there. Should it be a star at the top of the tree or an angel? Slash fairy. Well, yes, exactly. No fairies. Really? No angels. A star. This is horrifying. Jacob. Every little girl would like to be the fairy on the Christmas tree.

7:30Every little boy is having fun with his trumpet and his gun or drum, whichever it is. I think we have a star on top of the Christmas tree. Absolutely. Right. Well, I decorated for the first time this year because the first time ever I got a six-foot natural tree. Yes. And I had terrible... From a drunkard. Yeah, that's right. You're quite right. And I had terrible trouble finding good decorations because everyone's gone so posh. Everything is purple and white or pink or cold blue, I find. And some people don't even like tinsel. I mean, our tree, no tinsel. Apparently, the West has turned on tinsel.

7:59Well, we haven't got any tinsel, but we have got Angela Rayner as our angel at the top, which probably makes up for the lack of tinsel. Sorry, to tinsel or not to tinsel? That is the question, Laura. Laura's looking horrified. In the old days, it wasn't tinsel. It was strands of silver. Yes, angel hair. Yes, exactly. Which is still very hard to find, I can tell you. Did you tinsel your tree in the end, Tim? Of course I did. Because you said to me, I am going to have an unashamed 1980s tree. It should look like someone blew up a box of Quality Street. That's what a tree should look like. There's nothing in them anymore.

8:34Yes, exactly. So it has everything on it. It has teddy bears. It has presents. It has candy bars. It has everything. It's just... I'm coming round to yours. My children, actually, we now have the decorations in old Quality Street tins. And the children said, sorry, what is this? I said that was the size of the Quality Street tin. They couldn't believe it. Yes. Are you familiar with Elf on the Shelf, Jacob? I am, yes. Oh, are you? Yes, yes, I am. Do we believe in this festive frivolity? What is it? What? I've never heard of it. Elf on the Shelf. You have an elf that gets moved around the house mysteriously and people have to spot it.

9:11And it does naughty things. Do you have that in your house? Yes, we have. Well, we have had it in Somerset, yes. Yes. Not actually my fault, but nonetheless it has appeared. I think it may be an Americanised custom, Laura, but do we mind borrowing little customs from the Yanks? Absolutely not. Whatever makes us happy. If your children are smiling and having fun with it, why not? It's about festivity, isn't it? And bringing joy and laughter into our house. Now, talking about children dictating things, this was the big debate of my childhood. When to go to church. Now, midnight mass, as Jacob would say, versus the morning of Christmas.

9:53Now, the morning of Christmas became problematic for us as Catholic children, having to endure an hour-long mass and not having opened up presents. My parents were traditionally, they were like, you go to Mass, you listen and you sit through Mass, and then you can have your presence. But that did make Mass quite excruciating. And I think we probably enjoyed it more when we went on Christmas Eve night. Well, I tended to do, when the children were very little, when they were babies, we would take them on Christmas morning. I'd go to midnight Mass and then Christmas morning. What I now do is I take the littler ones to an early Christmas Eve Mass and then go to midnight mass myself with the rest.

10:36So you're double massing. I've been going to mass twice on Christmas for a long, long time. And because midnight mass is after midnight, you're allowed to take the blessed sacrament twice. You're not if you go Christmas morning, because then it's the same day. So you must only take it once in a day. It's a vigil. Midnight mass is a vigil mass, as in the Christian day really begins the night before the day. Yes. So if you do something late that night, you're technically into Sunday or Christmas Day. But the midnight one is great because it does have a touch of magic to it. Where do you spend Christmas, Jacob?

11:12London or Somerset? Oh, I'd never be in London. Why? I could possibly avoid it. It's quite nice being in Westminster at Christmas, isn't it? Empty, I'd have thought. I simply don't think that one stays in London for Christmas. I mean, it's definitely an etiquette thing. It's turning into something by Oscar Wilde. I'm sure that the flats of Brixton and Lewisham just empty as everyone dashes to their country homes. That's right, they'll go down to Somerset. For major festivities, one has to be in God's own county because you're nearer to God, so obviously Somerset. All right, so the Rees-Mogs have gone in a succession of different groups generationally dictated to midnight mass.

11:52And then can you talk us through Christmas Day, please? How do the Mogs spend Christmas Day? well the smaller they are the earlier they wake and they find that there has been a delivery from father christmas which is met with great excitement sometimes they may have woken up very very early and felt what was in the stocking which will always have at the bottom of it father christmas is i think a very traditional figure he always puts uh terry's chocolate orange at the bottom thank goodness i know what would christmas be without that uh and yesterday actually my two youngest straight their letters to Father Christmas as to what they wanted.

12:32See how much of that is delivered where the Father Christmas is up to snuff. Yes. Can I just ask at this point, who are Father Christmas's consultants? Are they Helena and Nanny or does Jacob get involved? What I mean is, is Jacob as surprised to see what the children have received as the children are? Yes, absolutely. I do get my children presents from me, though Alfred said to me that I would either be giving him a new Nintendo Switch or St Peter's toenail. What he meant by that was that I either give them some mechanical thing that they've asked for, or I find some relic or something like that that I think is interesting.

13:15It's probably quite safe that Sixtus won't be listening to this podcast. Yes. Whisper it. But I've got him a little medallion from the 16th century of Pope Sixtus, one of only two ever found in England, which came up at auction a week ago. So he won't want it at all, really. I was going to say, Jacob, he'd probably prefer a Rubik's Cube. So that's what Gerald Alfred meant, when it's either going to be a Nintendo Switch or... Yes. Something for the future. I mean, I have a great interest in holy relics, but I don't think there are any toenails for St Peter available. I wouldn't imagine Helena necessarily wants to receive a holy relic.

13:55I would imagine she wants to receive something possibly in gold. She's already married to one. That's right. That's what I was about to say. She's married. Tim, she's married a relic, not even a holy relic. I would imagine that you're the kind of chap that possibly visits a jewellery store for his wife. Yes, I do sometimes, yes. You see? Called it. So you're up with the lark. Well, I'm not. The children are. Well, don't they come into your room? Where are they opening these stockings? In their own rooms? In their own rooms, in their own rooms, yes. And then do you have a joint family present opening?

14:27That's right. Then about midday we'll start opening presents and when all the other children are up and probably have a glass of champagne. When are you having breakfast in this? I never have breakfast. What? I never eat breakfast. Well, what about the others? Well, I suppose they might have some breakfast, but I'll have a cup of coffee at some point. Okay. Laura, when should we be opening presents? This always triggered a civil war in my household because my father was very old fashioned and felt it should be late afternoon. Oh, no. After a day of Puritan activities. So when should we be doing it?

15:06Well, should is a strange verb, isn't it? Should when you want. but traditionally stockings are looked into in the morning after breakfast and then you wait around, well, after the king's speech or the queen's speech. That's quite late. Yes, at four o 'clock. That's late. You can imagine children waiting till then. It's a nightmare for them. Yes. So I think you should open them whenever you want. I agree. Should you be changing out of your pyjamas to do that? depending on what time you're opening your presents. I'm just asking for a friend. Do you spend the whole day in your pyjamas? Absolutely not.

15:49There's nothing wrong with that. We've been doing this podcast for months. There are people who come to work in this office in their pyjamas. I really wouldn't judge you for it. Excuse me, I'm sorry, special guest. Can I just challenge you? Do I really strike you as the kind of person that stays in pyjamas all day? OK, I'm sorry. Do you think I got to where I am today? Unless you're ill. Going out in leisure wear. Tim Stanley, honestly. I assumed you didn't sleep. Wash your mouth out. No, I'm up. I'm ready. I'm glamorous. I'm pouring some Bucks fizzes. I'm rallying the troops. I am then there, obviously officiating the present opening with a black bin liner.

16:27Get the rubbish straight in. Just get it in. I almost, I think the word fun sponge has been used to describe my manic tidying, vacuuming of pine needles But you're a mum. I mean, isn't part of the experience of Christmas that all the men have fun and the women just slave over an oven the whole day? Well, that's just the experience of domestic life, unfortunately, that the men walk around oblivious, pouring themselves drinks and ho-ho-hoing. And, you know, to be fair, keeping each other occupied while women are running around in circles checking the gravy's hot enough. Yeah, that's basically it.

17:02I just think the 4pm opening of presents would spark some kind of civil war in my house, I'm afraid. Yes, I think with six children, waiting till four would be impossible. Yes. Also, people are very generous. So the volume of presents means that if you waited till four, you'd be opening them forever. And so you want to get as much done as possible before lunch. Well, aren't we putting with six children a price cap on the presents? Are you spending an equal amount on each? And are you being a little abstemious? Because at the end of the day, Jacob, this is a holy day. It shouldn't be too commercialised.

17:39Oh, forget about that. It's a day of celebration and joy. It is the word made flesh and dwelling amongst us. You should kneel down when I say that. You keep on telling me to kneel down. It's an enormously exciting day. We should rejoice. And you rejoice by giving people presents, and that's very exciting. And I tend to give my children things that I think are worth giving them. So I don't have a monetary limit, but sometimes you get something that is very inexpensive, but you think hits the nail on the head. I tend to think that the amount you spend is broadly in inverse proportion to the present's use and goodness.

18:19That is to say, if you haven't got a present for somebody, you go and throw money at the problem and hope that you can get something suitable. Whereas if you found something two months earlier, it may be the absolutely perfect thing that hasn't in fact cost very much. I think there is some odd relationship between expenditure and value of the present. In Iceland, children are visited not just by Father Christmas, but also by 13 trolls called the Yule Lads. And they leave out shoes rather than stockings. And if they've been good, presents are put in the shoes. And if they've been bad, potatoes are left behind.

18:54And while we're going around the world, of course, in Japan on Christmas Day, they eat KFC. Have you ever eaten KFC? Certainly not. Do you know what KFC is? I do indeed. It's delicious. It's disgusting. You haven't ever had a chicken bucket? Oh, no. Revolting. It's horrible. Yeah. I know it smells bad, but it tastes really good. I don't believe it for a moment. I'm not a KFC girl, actually. My husband and my children would eat one. I've had chips from Kentucky Fried Chicken Outlet when I was at prep school. There was one in the Warwick Way and occasionally got them on the way back from school.

19:30but this is going back to the latter quarter of the last century. Right. But no, I wouldn't get anywhere near it. Okay, okay. Well, Laura, I know you're reluctant to say what one should do, but in your mind, what is the ideal Christmas dinner? It depends whether you like turkey. Yeah. I don't like turkey and I don't want it anywhere near me. Oh! I know, sorry. Well, I am half Italian, so turkey wasn't really in the pipelines for us. No, fair enough. Guinea fowl or chicken? I suppose that's a little bit too simple. Game birds, partridge in a pear tree, you know, something like that with Brussels sprouts and the roast potatoes and et cetera, et cetera.

20:14Should cauliflower cheese be there? It should never be anywhere. It should never be anywhere. Horrible. What? You love cheese. I like cheese as it is. I don't like it cooked and poured all over things. Cheese on a bath, Oliver. I like cheese on a bath, Oliver. I know you do. And you will remember the little sermon we had at the GB News Carol concert about the crown jewels being kept in a biscuit tin. Yes. It was a Bath Oliver biscuit tin. It's very important to bear. So in tune. The vicar didn't say that, but I thought it was important. But do you think game or turkey or beef? I think turkey. You have to just go traditional.

20:47It's very dry. Yes. Not how tasteless. My sister-in-law cooks it, to be fair. She's a great cook. That's why I'm not cooking it. Just to make that very clear. It's only dry if it's not well cooked. Yes, exactly. And if you've had too much of it in the run-up to Christmas. Right. Isn't turkey sort of an American thing? Yes, of course it is. Yes, exactly. It was found in America, but so potatoes, and I'm very keen on potatoes. Well, are they there an Irish thing? No, they're not. They were found there. No, they're Files Walter Raleigh who brings the potatoes. Oh, yes, of course he does. Along with tobacco.

21:14But much of Christmas is American, right? The night before Christmas, the image of Father Christmas. The Grinch. The Grinch. But the most evil thing at this time of year is not the Krampus, the demon that haunts the villages of Bavaria, chasing children who've been bad all year, but the Brussels sprout. Ah, I agree with that. It doesn't matter whether you do some newfangled recipe that Nigella Lawson or somebody else has cooked up where you add chorizo or you, I don't know, flambe it in the back garden. That's like trying to see the good side of Fred West. That's right. There is no redeeming. It's a Brussels sprout.

21:51There's no redeeming. Still a Brussels sprout. Brussels sprouts are delicious. It's one of the few vegetables I actually like. I'm not a great vegetable eater. I eschew most vegetables. I don't like carrots and all those sorts of things. What's wrong with a carrot? It's so innocuous. Brussels sprouts are really, rather nice. What other vegetable would you insist on on Christmas Day? Well, I'm not a great insister, so, you know, I don't interfere too much. Red cabbage? I hate red cabbage. Loathsome stuff. A parsnip. Loathsome. So you'll just have your meat and a potato or two and a Brussels sprout?

22:20Peas? No, don't I, peas. Gosh. You see, I'm not a vegetable eater except for Brussels sprouts. Also, is Nanny involved in your Christmas? Of course, yes, Nanny will be with us. Nanny will, and what about Mother Mog? I think my mother this year is with my brother. Fair enough. But Helena's mother and stepfather will be with us. Lovely. And are we talking about sort of silver platters and people pulling off, you know, what are those called? Orguerion. Oh. Bless you, Laura. You'd have to have a lot of wait staff to do that, though. Well, do you have wait staff? He's reluctant to remember. I've never referred to the people who work at Ganey Court as that, but we do have people who help look after us, who actually do look after us, to put it more truthfully.

23:04They look after us. And then do they have their own Christmas dinner? Afterwards, yes. Afterwards, lovely. So it is a little bit downturn. I don't want to label you as silly or not, David. Look, I am very well looked after. I make no bones about that. OK. Here's a really, really important question. Eggnog. Is it a bit naff? I've never tried it. How about a snowball with avocard? That's naff. Is it? What's naff? Could you tell me what that is? It's avocard. Oh, you've not lived. I only know what avocard is because I once had a job at Luton Airport in the summer where I had to promote unlikely liquor and I was trying to sell avocard and baileys to people going to Tenerife and it was the foundation of my job as a journalist, persuading people to do things or say things they didn't want to, Laura.

23:52It was the longest summer of my life. One morning I threw myself to the ground and said to my parents, I am not going there. It was too difficult. But Advocar is a thick, sticky yellow liqueur to which you add lemonade and it makes a sort of eggnog and you may want to, like Clark Griswold in National Lampoons, drink it out of a reindeer-shaped glass. I'm not sure this is the kind of paraphernalia that bothers the Rees-Mogg's at Christmas. Eggnog is a pretty unpleasant drink, then drunk from an ugly... Eggnog well-made is much better than that. It's cream whiskey and various nuts and cinnamon, and it should be heated and it's delicious if it's made well.

24:35But it's a New Year's Day drink, it's not a Christmas Day drink. Oh, OK. Oh, is it? Are you cocktailing on Christmas Day at all, by the way? I wouldn't have thought so, no. Champagne? Champagne. That's it. OK. Is there a gong? I have got a gong, yes. Who sounds it and when is it sounded for dinner? Well, I fruitlessly sound it in the hope that my children will take any notice, but this is the triumph of hope over experience. It's roundly ignored by all my children who I have then to go and call individually. I sometimes ask one of them to do it instead, and then it's done with great enthusiasm, and you can probably hear it in London from Somerset.

25:09But, as I say, it is ignored by all my children. And is it a Christmas lunch affair or dinner? Lunch, lunch. We had dinner until we had lots of children. Yes. It needs to be lunch for children. Dinner's fine if you're an adult Christmas. And then you can open your presents at four and all those sorts of things. But once you've got children, they don't want to wait. And you can't really send them to bed. And what do they wear? What do the children wear? Whatever they normally wear. Right. Oh, so you don't necessarily dress up. I'm imagining a mantra. No, no, no, no. I'm imagining like little colours.

25:41What do the children wear? They wear whatever they feel like. Trainers? Yes, there's lots of trainers. Like pants? I'm not entirely sure I know what those are. Laura's looking horrified. Well, sort of jogging pants. I hope they don't wear jogging trousers, no. No. No, but the children, they're all of an age where they can decide to themselves and some of them look smarter than others. Are jeans acceptable? They do have denim trouserings. And is the pudding set on fire? It is, yes. It is, right. What if it's a pavlova? Sorry. So you're covering it in brandy first, or how are you doing it? Well, I'm not doing it.

26:20You're not doing it. Who does it? Have you ever made a pudding in your life? No, of course not. No, indeed. Right. But don't the men, as in my household, don't they? Oh, the men have to light it. Because ladies, there's fire. He'd have had nothing to do with the making it over six months. If a man says to a woman this Christmas, love, let me like the Christmas pudding, the Greens are planning to criminalise him. I don't know if you saw that story in the Sunday Telegraph. Apparently mansplaining could become a criminal offence under a Polanski government. Santa Claus, who famously votes Green, will carry out a citizen's arrest.

26:54But you do make a good point because men do tend to try it. So the woman has spent months possibly putting this Christmas pudding together. And the fun part, which is setting it alight, I have witnessed in my own family various male members out the way, love. Keeping the ladies back. Just in case it'll go off in their face. Yes. And the reason why I can't talk, people who've watched the Discovery programme will have seen Sean, who works for us in Somerset, who was the absolute star of the programme other than my wife. And he likes it. Does he? It's always done by him. It always catches on fire.

27:26It always works. You don't have any of that thing of doing lots of matches and none of it catching. All right. Coming up next, we're going to be asking Jacob why he's said in the past that he disapproves of large mouthfuls. Really? I don't know. I don't know if you have. It's in the brief. I think that's very wise.

27:56Welcome back. Do you not remember that in Keeping Up With The Rees-Mogg's, you said, and I quote, that you disapprove of large mouthfuls, adding nanny wouldn't like it. Well, that's absolutely right. Nanny certainly wouldn't approve of people stuffing their faces. People should eat small amounts relatively quickly. You shouldn't hang around all day eating, but equally you shouldn't stuff your face. So what's the ideal time that this Christmas lunch stroke dinner should last? Well, it all depends. If you open the presents at about midday and have a glass of champagne with that, and then you sit down to lunch at about 1.30, you've got to be finished by three.

28:34For the king's speech. Indeed. And does the mog household fall silent? Are all the children co-opted into this? Is it just the adults? Everyone listens to the king. Wonderful. Tim, do you do the king's speech? No, I don't. Oh, you were having a go at me about being in pyjamas. This is sacrilegious. It's actually because I'm such a traditionalist. To me, the monarch of this country remains Elizabeth II. and to me the Queen's speech is her at a desk, maybe with a photo of a much-loved Corgi, talking about her year. I feel in the last 10 years it's become overproduced and it gives me a bit of a headache.

29:13The camera swings around, we cut back to July, we go to a choir, then there's the king hanging from a crane. It's all a bit too blue-peter. Yeah, but don't tell me you do the alternative Christmas message where we have to hear Jeremy Corbyn telling us what he's going to put in his stocking. Tim, as much as we all adored the late Queen, the Queen is dead, God save the King, and that is our most ancient tradition. Otherwise, you're going to be waiting for Arthur to come back. No, I know. I'm sorry. I just live in the past, and I feel very strongly that I will never accept that the Queen is gone.

29:44Well, I have a little exclusive insight. I believe there may be a news line in the Christmas broadcast this year. Right. And I think we get it in advance so that we write embargoed copy to go out as soon as it's been televised. We do, because I write the editorials, so I know what happened. I happened to be at St James' Palace last week, Laura, Windsor, appropriately named, not sure if you're a relation, and I did get a little word that I must look very carefully at the last two paragraphs of this speech, and yes, if you think you should read something into it, you should. Oh. So I'm just keeping everyone poised for that moment.

30:23I've got to watch it now. Okay, I'll have to flip over from Star Wars or whatever. We're in Indiana Jones. Laura, obviously there are other people, unfortunately, with us at Christmas. How do you deal with unwanted guests or people who misbehave or get drunk? What's the right way to handle people? Very carefully. Right. Christmas is about, as is every day of the year, about making others feel comfortable and putting them at ease. So bite your tongue and don't take too much things literally. Just be kind and change a subject if possible. Let's give a scenario, shall we? Yes, I think that would be...

31:11Uncle Pete has always been a bit of an outsider, not really got on well with his sister, your mum. He comes along and he starts drinking from about 11. It sounds like you're just telling us what happens. This is literally just me convicting. Right, OK. We get through dinner. Uncle Pete's pouring more and more wine down his neck. The next thing you know, he starts ranting on about immigration and how he wants to support reform. People are getting embarrassed, Laura. Everyone wants Uncle Pete to pipe down. How do we engineer a change in tone? Good question. It will happen. Everyone has an Uncle Pete.

31:47It happens every time, yes. Yeah, so we don't want to hurt other people's feelings, but I think a good talk with Uncle Pete beforehand would be... Oh, suggest what you would say, Pete, look. Well, Pete, this is prior. Yes. Days before Chris, not on Christmas Day. First of all, I would try and offer less alcohol. You could say let's have an alcohol-free Christmas this year and see who turns up. Well, I think at that point Pete will not turn up and that could be the solution. That is the solution. People choose where they want to go Can I just caveat I have no relatives called Peter? I just assumed this was code for Nigel Ferrari.

32:27Well, I'm merely leaning into the idea that sometimes you do have a relative that can be a little bit problematic, that can turn into a loose cannon shortly after the King's speech and erupt, and I'm just saying, you know, I think techniques to control these people is probably a good thing. Well, seating arrangements are a good thing. the two contentious people in the family, put them at the other end of the table. Great suggestion. And not on the same side so that there's no eye contact. Yeah. So they won't be able to speak to each other. That's one way of doing it. How about games as a distraction technique?

33:05Jacob, I'm imagining, although you keep on debunking this myth, I was thinking the mogs dressed in Victoriana playing parlour games and you've said, no, actually, they're going to come to Christmas lunch in jeans. They're going to be playing with a Nintendo Switch. We'll be in black tie for Boxing Day dinner. Oh, what's that all about? It's not. It's just we'll be properly dressed for dinner on Boxing Day. We won't on Christmas Day because we'll have had a huge lunch and therefore it'll be quite a light supper. So I can reassure you that some of the image is there. And we're very likely to play after dinner games on Boxing Day.

33:38What sorts of games? What sorts of games? Charades. In the manner of the word. In the manner of the word. So two people go out and they have to come in and do something quickly or lackadaisically. You want to find a word that is hard but not impossible to get. An action word. An action word. And then you have to act out, you get asked to do things, poke the fire in the manner of the word. Oh. That sort of thing. That sounds quite fun, actually. So we do that. It's boggled, isn't it? Okay. We do the scissor game where you pass scissors around and you say, are the scissors crossed or uncrossed? And there is a code that is known by us as to whether they are or not.

34:20And if it were you, Laura, the scissors are crossed. With me, the scissors are uncrossed. And then people have to work out what it is that determines that. It's a little unfair on guests because we all know what's going on and the poor guest doesn't. we had a very jolly time one election playing this with Norman Lamont who I think thought the Rees-Mogs invited people just to flick cruel tortures on them but he was very, very sporting about it and off to come again so he can't mind it too much and consequences my children love consequences Remind me of consequences Tim Stanley met Camilla Tominy at the Telegraph building but then I write one and then you read them out and it all gets completely confused So Tim Stanley meets Margaret Thatcher in the Tower of London and he says to her, hello darling, give me a kiss, if you remember the end of that James Bond film.

35:16And on it goes. Sometimes they're very funny. So it's quite traditional. Do you play any board games? Not if I can possibly avoid it. Why? Do you not like board games? I don't like losing board games. Are you somebody who could throw a Monopoly board in the air if you don't get Mayfair? I've got out of that stage. Oh, this is an interesting insight. With your siblings, were you quite problematic? They all let me win. They were very nice to me. I've got lovely siblings. Oh, noted. Noted about Jacob. I always got... Were you the youngest? I was the youngest for ten years younger than me, so I was the youngest for ten years, so I was much indulged by my siblings who would always let me win at Monopoly.

35:56Oh, sweet. Do we like to watch any Christmas movies? Yes, if I can find something. What one would you go back to time and again? I mean, probably go back to a James Bond film Would you? Yes One of the earlier ones The early ones are gentler The funny ones Sean Connery Well, Roger Moore Oh, you're with Tim on Roger Moore I can't bear it Let's not ruin this Christmas podcast By insisting that Roger Moore was the best James Bond No, he wasn't No, he wasn't No I think the ladies are anti-Moore The men are generally pro. The ladies are pro Daniel Craig and... Oh, no. Oh. No, he's a thug. He's a thug.

36:38He's not a thug. Piers Brosnan. Well, obviously. Or Sean Connery. Piers Brosnan is one of the most beautiful men ever created. Piers Brosnan is a very good James Bond. He carries on in the Roger Moore tradition. You can't disagree with me, especially in Mrs Dalpont. It's funny, it's light. And the Daniel Craig one, I think, is all too serious. So... And Bond really works. There's no humour. You've obviously watched Home Alone. Oh, I have. I love Home Alone. Oh, we love Home Alone. Home Alone is a great film. Brilliant. Yes, which, you know, rescued News Corp. Did it? Yeah, in 1990, there was a terrible recession.

37:07And News Corp is teetering on the edge of bankruptcy. And Home Alone takes in tens of millions of dollars. And that's exactly what News Corp needs. So Rupert Murdoch should be very grateful to Mr. Macaulay Culkin. Yes, it is. How is Christmas being... Actually, this is the other question when it comes to guests. you've had them in the house for at least 12 hours. Uncle Pete's been banging on about reform. Uncle Pete almost certainly listens to this podcast. Please don't bash Uncle Pete. It's our demographic. Listen, if it wasn't for the Uncle Pete's of this world, we wouldn't have any debates.

37:45I wouldn't have a Christmas. Indeed. I think you're very unfair on Uncle Pete making him reform. If we had somebody from reform in the Rees-Mogg household, we wouldn't mind a bit. We wouldn't mind either. What would be difficult is if we had some aggressive green vegan who wanted to hypnotise us. I know, but all I'm saying... No, but you would have been familiar with the clash of cultures that might be Uncle Pete and a young Generation Z lefty. Zed. Zed, sorry. Well, you say mass and I say mass, so we have to agree to disagree. No, no, no, but we are English, aren't we? All right, Generation Z.

38:19Tell me, talk of Americanisation. I know, your party supporter, that's all I'm saying. These clashes happen generationally. We know they do. It's no disrespect to Uncle Pete or anybody else. I'm just merely citing that as a potential area for familial conflict. Fortunately, the young in the Rees-Mogg household get more right wing. It's rather splendid. Yes. My daughter's a member of reform. One of them, though. Right, where are we? Where are we going with the Uncle Pete? Sorry, I'm interested on Uncle Pete. Oh, yes, I said Uncle Pete. OK, so Uncle Pete has been there for a long time, along with the irritating Jen Zedder, who is banging on about how great Zahra Sultana is.

38:54Everyone's had it up to here. You're actually quite tired. You've been on your feet all day serving Bucks Fizzes, not in your pyjamas, wrapping up and dealing with the detritus of the Christmas... Oh, are we doing crackers? We do crackers, but your Bucks Fizz obsession... I don't know why I'm saying Bucks Fizz. Isn't that a way of ruining both orange juice and champagne? And you only use it if you've got really cheap champagne? Can I just say it's an affectation from my... 1980s kind of drinks. It's an affectation from my childhood. Are you talking about plastic green bottles? Well, no, we had them in a very, like a crystal, a very dynasty stroke Dallas flute that my mother would produce with her hair.

39:34I mean, good God, it was big. And shoulder pads on. Very glamorous woman. And my mother would bring on a tray, Bucks Fizz, and we were allowed to drink it because it was alcohol, but it had orange in it. Champagne's also available. I'm merely saying that that's a way to kind of infantilise it for the children. But Laura has ruled, I think correctly, that Bucks Fizz is verboten. Yes. Yes, it's a no-no. OK. Are we asking how do we get rid of people? We're asking how do we get rid of Pete and the really irritating Gen Zedder. But we have to settle this key point. How do we get rid of... Do you start yawning?

40:07Do you actually, like Tim would, put on your pyjamas as a signal? I just go to bed. What, when people are still in your house? Just leave people down there. It depends how well you know them, I guess. Yes. Do you want to let Uncle Pete loose in your own flat while you're in bed? How do we bring things to a close? In a formal setting, you send out RSVPs and you put carriages await at 11. What time would you put on that, by the way, Jacob? I wouldn't because most of the people who come will be staying on Christmas Day or will be very immediate members of the family, so I don't have these terrors that you're worried about.

40:46That's true. If you haven't sent out formal stiffies, so to speak... You hint politely. Oh, it's been such a lovely day. Oh, tomorrow's another one. I have to get up early to prepare whatever. It was lovely to have you. Yes. I think talk about traffic. Thank you so much. I think rates get busy in an hour. Yes, be careful on the ice. You don't want to leave it too late. Oh, look outside. Oh, look, it looks a bit snowy. Maybe it's better that we all get home. And please do ring when you arrive. Oh, this is one I need to know, sorry, before we conclude. I did mention earlier my fun spongery. around wrapping paper.

41:26I need to hold back and not wrestle it from the children's hands literally as soon as they've opened their present just to ruin the joy of it. Because you'd like to save it? Well, no, I'm just a bit OCD and I've got to calm down this. I'm saying to myself very carefully, Tim Stanley, just calm down this Christmas. Now, this is what I would like to know. Just with regard to sort of clearing up and things, it's a gargantuan thing, Christmas, and there's mess everywhere. And if you're like me, you get a little bit nervous if your house hasn't been dust busted 15 times a day. There's a temptation, isn't it?

41:58I'm feeling tense thinking about it, Laura. You are. You're scratching the table. There's a temptation, isn't there, to start clearing away, but then it's rude. You can't do that too early. What's the deal with clearing up after Christmas? It spoils the fun if you're there taking the wrapping paper that the children are just... I know that, Laura. I've admitted that, Laura, but on the food front. People have stopped eating. They're all lounging around. Maybe you've served some cheese. They're then done with that. My dad inevitably will say, does anyone want a cherry brandy? Lovely dad. Is it at that point I swoop in?

42:32Are you the only one clearing the table? And we'll get the children to help, obviously. But what I mean is, do you just have to just leave the detritus there for quite some time and maybe tackle it at like 10 at night? Or should you be doing stuff as you go? I think doing clearing up as you go, first course, all the mess, clear it away, together with the plates. Good. I'm gratified to hear that. Yes, every other course. Gratified to hear it. Clearing up as we go is not an anti-etiquette thing. A table setting should be clean and you're meant to be able to see the cutlery and the plates. There shouldn't be too many Christmas accents on the table as such.

43:18And it should be clean and quite tidy. And if your children aren't... I do not have an issue with clean and tidiness, I can assure you of that now. But I think the children really need to step up. Oh, they're mucking in, don't you worry. We are going to send the little one up the chimney, have her sweep that. Oh, OK. But I don't do that on Christmas Day. Mine go up on day or two before. OK, actually, I might borrow one of yours. OK, yes, they're good size. That's OK, your little one. Mine's getting a bit too big now. And they look a bit like Oliver anyway. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, exactly so. I feel this daily tea Christmas has ended on an appropriately Dickensian note.

43:54Yes. Well, why shouldn't you? Actually, we almost should have started with that, because our Christmas is very much the Dickens Christmas. It is, right. And we all expect snow. Yes. Because in Dickens' childhood, there was a little cold period, and so he always has snow in his Christmases, which is very unusual in England. Global warming is killing Christmas. That's another debate. That's a debate to have. That's the kind of thing that Gen Z would say, by the way. That's a debate to have on Boxing Day. And Uncle Pete would go, close them down. Thank you very much. Climate change doesn't exist.

44:24Thank you very much for joining our Daily Tea before Christmas. Do return on Monday the 29th when we'll be bringing you an investigative series that you can really get into in the period between Christmas and New Year. And all that remains is for us to wish you all a very Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Ho, ho, ho.