Jay Slater’s mum: How online trolls made my life hell

0:02The Telegraph

0:10you'll be familiar with jay slater the 19 year old apprentice bricklayer who went missing in tenerife on his first holiday abroad by himself last year and was later found dead what you might not know is the nightmare his family have had to endure at the hands of vile online trolls on today's Daily Tea, I'm joined by Jay Slater's mum, Debbie Duncan. Welcome to The Daily Tea with me, Camilla Tominey.

0:46Debbie Duncan, lovely to see you in The Daily Tea studios, although it's always really difficult doing these interviews because we're talking about a personal and family tragedy for you. and it's not been long since Jay died. How have you all been doing in the time since? Gosh, it fit well. Obviously, we're over a year on but it just feels like time stood still, really. It's not been an easy ride. Yeah, it feels like yesterday, really. It's just all so raw because we've had, obviously, inquests and things to wait for. And we're going to be talking about how difficult people in the online world have made your lives on top of what has been the most horrific thing a parent can ever experience, to be honest.

1:38It's always struck me that you've always wanted to say in interviews that you don't want Jay to be remembered by his death, but by his life. Exactly. So tell us what he was like. He was just a typical 19-year-old. He worked hard and he played hard and he saved and he was just so looking forward to his first holiday on his own. He'd started going to festivals and travelling about and, yeah, he was just so excited about it. A cheeky chappy with a big personality. He was, yes. He had a massive personality. He was very popular, very loved. People liked to be in Jay's company, you know, from being at a young age up to, you know, when he went away.

2:30And he goes away to Tenerife in June 2024 on a first holiday without you guys? First holiday without us watching over him, yeah. Excited, presumably? Excited, very excited. First festival abroad as well, so, yeah. He's doing what any 19-year-old wants to do with his summer, right? Just go out, have some fun, have a few drinks, enjoy life. You see him off at the airport, everything's okay until the moment, and I'm sorry to ask you to relive it briefly, Debbie, until the moment his friend Lucy calls you. Just tell me about that moment. Obviously, I've been in touch with Jay since he landed, spoke to him every day.

3:15I'd spoke to him on the Sunday evening and then I was at work on Monday and I got a phone call from Lucy Monday afternoon. Jay's gone missing. What do you mean, Jay's gone missing? Well, we were all out. He's gone off somewhere and he's miles away. I mean, she was absolutely distraught, obviously, but, I mean, she'd done the right things at the time. I just wish she'd have called me a bit earlier, but she was petrified. Well, probably, what, afraid that they'd all get in trouble? Why have they lost track of him? Well, I think it was just a case of Jay was, you know, he loved meeting other people and he'd often wander on a night out talking to different people.

4:03So I think it was just, well, he's just going to turn up, you know, he's just going to make his way back. but then obviously in that short space of time that morning when she knew how far away he was, I think she was just frightened of telling his mum as well. Yes, of course. So it was just sheer panic. She'd already contacted the consulate so that's what I did straight away. Phoned the British consulate in London. They'd already had a record of it. they advised me to report it to our local police, which I did. And then they said, we'll send somebody round to speak to you. So I couldn't even drive home, it were awful.

4:49My boss drove me home and my other sons came round. But it's a bit of a blur, really. I sat there thinking, what do we do? And I just said to Zattie, it got midnight, I kept ringing his friends in Tenerife, is there any update? and then it would just let's just get out there so of course so initially you understood that he had been out for this night out that he'd left in the early hours he'd got in a car with a couple of blokes he'd met gone to an airbnb miles away he'd had this last conversation with lucy he hasn't got any water he's on one percent battery he thinks he can walk back to their original destination she advises him against that i'm spelling it out like this because it's a complete sort of plausible set of circumstances when this first came to the public's attention I think any mother could completely identify with you and say therefore the grace of God go I with all anyone with a son or a daughter who likes going out partying can appreciate that if they've had a bit too much to drink or something else they may make decisions that aren't particularly wise in the heat of the moment.

6:01Yeah. Are you at this point, Debbie, thinking, OK, he's gone off somewhere, he might have even shacked up with a girl, who knows? Yeah. He's going to turn up. Yeah, that's what we were thinking. And I remember me and Zach, like, sat at the airport, and I said exactly that. Zach being your other son? Yeah, my other son. Oh, what if he just turns up? What if he's been partying with some girls or whatever? and I said well we'll just party tonight with him do you know what I mean like everything will turn out all right and we'll have a couple of days in Tenerife and you know we'll all come back together that was the dream outcome.

6:42Now I need to ask you about the sort of virtual analysis of this the online analysis of this is going on as the news breaks that a young 19 year old British man has been lost in Tenerife. Because what I think people don't understand, for families at the centre of that kind of story, you've then got a whole narrative going online of speculation. Now, as the mum in all this, you're not in Tenerife yet. What are you doing? Are you going online, looking at some of these theories, thinking, has anyone seen him? How do you cope with the discussion that is going on as you are having your own personal panic and crisis?

7:23Well, at the beginning, it was just, I mean, I didn't look online. You know, we were just sat in the airport and I was contacting Lucy mainly, you know, is there any updates? I didn't even think of, I mean, who would have known it would have blown up like it did, you know. Even like the first morning when we arrived, well, obviously everybody knows about the text message that we received. Just tell us about that, Debbie. So, yeah, me and Zach walked out of the airport and my phone went and it was a WhatsApp message saying, kiss your son goodbye, you're never going to see him again, he owes us money.

8:07And I was just like shocked reading it. And I said, and it were a disappearing message. I got Zach to take a photograph with his phone, my phone with the message on and then it went. So, ringing the number back, nothing. but then it was obviously the missing poster had my telephone number on that had been started to circulate that evening because Lucy's mum had put it together obviously not knowing what it was going to turn out like. I suppose you didn't know that it was going to be a media frenzy at that point. No. And that presumably as well, Debbie, is why you then thought well hang on, how do I interpret this message?

8:46Has he been taken? You then give an interview, I think it's to the Mail Online. Tell me about that. You're desperate to find him. Well, you're desperate. And then obviously we got to the accommodation where Jay and Brad were actually staying. I was just in sheer panic. I just had a complete meltdown. And then next thing, there were media looking up. Debbie, Debbie shouting up. And I'm thinking, what's going on? And then obviously you look at this message again. and think, well, he's not turned up. Has he been taken? You know, then you start thinking, is this real? Sure. You know, it's just awful.

9:30And, like, obviously media. I've never dealt with media before. No. I didn't know what the agenda was, you know. They were putting a camera in my face. Yeah. And I was just, it was a bit of a blur, really. I mean, when I think back now, and I did an interview, sat on the balcony. like I just don't really remember it because I was just so just traumatized and also we'll get onto this in a bit actually you're reminding me of the same circumstances that faced Kate and Jerry McCann you're not in your own country yeah you're abroad you're desperately searching for a missing child albeit of different ages but it's the same principle the media are descending you're not really protected from that because if that happened in the UK you'd have had police liaison officers and things you're sort of just out there and you were conducting searches yourself right yeah we then get into the realms of obviously a few days going on and people starting to theorize often in a conspiratorial way about what may have happened when did you first become aware of that noise going on in the background of all this?

10:42Well, a friend who'd flown out, so Jay's friend Brad, his mum, came out to support us. She'd set up a Facebook page, you know, appealing for information and spreading the awareness of Jay being missing. And then that was just absolutely bombarded with all kinds of conspiracy theories. there were videos being put on there of and circled like is this a body and there was a video that was circulating it were beach footage and there was like voices and they were saying JJ you said he wasn't going to get stabbed and it was obviously nothing of the sort them words were just you know put over the the video there were there were other videos i mean there were footage in the club where jay was on the sunday evening like late into monday and there was actually somebody that was at the festival videoing his friends that got out that got put all over social media um saying that he dropped a bag he's dropped a bag and it was full of drugs and yes and you were like what is going on you know we were going down all these rabbit holes as well well this is so difficult isn't it you're looking for your son you therefore want to follow any lead that you can yeah but people are just publishing stuff online with impunity some of it is valid his last moments at the nightclub for instance some of it is just made up nonsense i know and did you know as well at that point that you were sort of being analysed, your behaviour was later going to come under scrutiny?

12:32No, not at all, no. I've seen, you know, obviously since content creators, did you notice there was no tears coming out of Debbie's eyes and body language and look how, like Rachel, Brad's mum, look at her backing away from Rachel and they were just, every little move that I made, Rachel made, any of us really, it was just absolutely broken down and just sensationalised into what they wanted to believe. Are you conscious of that at that point? Are you still just laser focused on we've got to find him? Just focused on, you know, we've got to find him. But it was difficult. Of course, and it's a distraction.

13:18I mean, and other people who are more legitimate, not online sleuths and things, did try and come and search the terrain near to where he made the last phone call. So there are people legitimately helping you. Tell me a bit about that. Yeah, so we met some lovely people who, you know, volunteered to go up and help with the search for Jay. One man in particular who actually lives out in Tenerife. I mean, he has been absolutely ripped to pieces online. Why? Exactly. All he did was help. I mean, he has become a good friend, a good family friend now. He's an absolutely brilliant person. And the guys that, the team that helped him, they found out about his partner, his dad, his mum, his brother, the businesses he works for.

14:13just absolutely ripping him to pieces for doing a good thing. And this is what I mean. These creators, they've no compassion. They just want to just cause absolute chaos. They're a law unto themselves. It's just lawless and, yeah, it's just so unfair. So, Debbie, all this is going on in the background. You're there, you can't find him. Tell me when you found out what had really happened to Jay So when we got the phone call Which obviously has been missing for 29 days They must have been the most horrific days How did you get through them? I don't really know to be honest I mean I didn't sleep much I was just like a mad woman Just pacing up and down just waiting for phone calls.

15:10I was on to the British Embassy, the police. Yeah, I don't know how I got through it, to be honest. At that point, are you still holding out hope? I mean, 29 days, you knew what the terrain was like, you knew what the hot weather was like. As a mum, you're obviously hoping for the best. Deep down, were you preparing for the worst? Deep down, it was, well, you know, he's not been in contact. but like I say you were going down that many rabbit holes you were thinking has he been injured and has somebody helped him and is he somewhere without a phone in one of these little villages you were obviously holding on to hope.

15:51And just for some context, there were some rabbit holes people were going down because one of the chaps who he got into a car with had got a history of drug dealing so then you get this whole kind of criminal element in the background. There was also a discovery by the press that unfortunately, previously to the holiday, Jay had been involved in an episode that had seen somebody be beaten up. He wasn't involved directly. He just happened to be in the group that was involved. Then people are casting aspersions on his character. Yeah. And that must be hard for you as mum. Oh, yeah. I mean, at the time that were awful.

16:24You know, I was 16. but then it was like because obviously they'd found out a bit of Jay's past it was well it's a revenge attack and they was analysing all the footage and photographs in the nightclub oh he's there this is him and yeah and then like you say the two guys obviously his identity was exposed and he was a convicted drug dealer so then it all you know well it's all about drugs and yeah you know jay went over to tenerife and and then it got us you know as far as well debbie knew what he was going for and you're part of some conspiracy criminal conspiracy i knew all about it and they were going to reappear if that were one story he was going to reappear somewhere That it was all faked or staged.

17:17I mean, it's extraordinary the lengths people go to to perpetuate myths and misinformation to compound your misery, right? Exactly, yeah. So that day 29 comes and you get the call. Yeah, we get the call that they wanted to speak to us at the police station. And obviously we didn't know what it was for. So we went down and sat us down and they just said, that we found human remains that we believed to be Jay. And I kind of... I mean, it was just all so... You know, he'd just been found that morning, so it were all... So I was saying, well, did he have his phone? Did he have his, you know... How do you know it's him?

18:03Because you're kind of in denial until you actually see something that belonged to Jay. So it was just... I just went... I was on my knees. It was just awful. And it was Jay's father that went to identify his belongings? Well, we all went together because we had to get a funeral director, as we would in the UK, which I was in denial. I was thinking that, oh, I think, you know, to begin with, to be honest, I was thinking, like, what if it's not him? Yeah. So, yeah, we got funeral directors and we all, like, made the journey up to the capital and took us into a room and there was a casket there with his name and it was just awful.

18:52And then I just said, I want to see his things and he brought this bag containing the clothing that he was found with and I just said, I'm really sorry, but I just need to look now. I need to open it. it wasn't pleasant but I just needed to know that, you know, it was Jay's things and they gave us his bag with some of his belongings in. I asked about his phone, is his phone in his bag, which it was, but obviously they took his phone. You just needed to know as a mum, right? And you'd helped him to put these clothes, you'd probably wash those clothes and help him to put them in the bag. I would imagine at that point you're still desperate for answers aren't you you want to get to the phone find out what happened to the point that it ran out of battery while at the same time processing your own grief now to compound matters your son's body's been found it's been found with his phone and his other possessions and yet then you're exposed to more vile conspiracy theories from people suggesting that it isn't his body, that it's some kind of scam.

20:11Yeah. I mean, I personally find that unbelievable. I know. Because they were saying, you know, 29 days. He was out in the heat for 29 days. There wouldn't have been anything left of him. and I mean, Ava and I was like looking at how bodies decompose because you were kind of like thinking, well, are they right? But obviously they weren't right. Well, the pathologist, you had fortunately extremely capable and professional medical experts who dealt with his body in pathology. A point was made, for instance, about how could they tell it was him because of fingerprints and one particular doctor made the point that unfortunately when people pass away they actually you're in heat yeah your hands constrict in and it preserves fingerprints despite decomposition so the point is you know it's your son yeah you're coming to terms with the fact it's your son which is horrific enough and then you've got this whole alternative reality being presented by people with no medical or criminology expertise at all.

21:24How is this even allowed, Debbie? I mean, I'm an advocate of freedom of speech, but not to the point that people are just talking ill-informed claptrap that compounds the misery of a family coming to terms with the death of a 19-year-old. Exactly, yeah. I mean, I'm, you know, freedom of speech, yeah, but it's misinformation. and I think deep down I think they do realise it is misinformation like part of the time but they've just got this importance of sitting there and call themselves content creators when the content is not backed up with facts. No, keyboard detectives. Yeah. Was it the same old faces popping up again and again?

22:12Yeah, it was. Yeah, the main ones, yeah. And was there ever any attempt to basically get them to shut up? Because if it were me, I'd be like trying to knock my doors down and it's difficult. You do, flipping heck, you do want to go and get revenge, you know, but I've never been one to, I never really used social media, to be honest, like YouTube, TikTok, but flipping heck, it really opened my eyes to this like this dark side of um of social media just flipping out yeah but yeah same content creators and then they kind of like one will do a video about a certain thing and you'll find like the other ones like jump on it as well you know and then this one will have like i mean the views on some of them it's like unbelievable yeah you know thousands and thousands of views to be fair it's not just the people who are making the videos no it's those who are liking and sharing and then emboldening them to make more videos yeah they have to be held responsible in some way yeah comments are disgusting is the most difficult period then for you in the context of all this going on online that year between his remains being found and then the inquest because you need some clarity don't you about what's happened to your son tell me about that period and how you managed that 12 months it was I think from from us bringing Jay back to the UK and then obviously we were busy planning his funeral um in August and then I did have a good relationship with the coroner's officer so like back and forth and then I kept chasing up the foot because they're very slow in Spain yes and I just wanted to get my hands on his phone because I wanted to see for myself you know his call logs his messages and because we'd not actually seen anything at that at that point so when we went back we had to go back in November to the courts in Tenerife.

24:23That's where we got handed Jay's form. Must have been difficult going back to Tenerife. It was, it was. And then obviously going to the court, sitting in front of the officials and language barrier, that was horrible as well, you know, to get translators. And then they handed us this document and it was like 600 pages of this investigation. And it was like wow you know we've gone from july to november yeah without knowing you know what they'd actually done and they had been they had been very thorough and you had a lot of your questions answered we had a lot of yeah we had a lot of questions answered what did you do debbie sit down and read it yourself get the lawyers to read like it must have been harrowing i couldn't wait to read it that was google translate like every page google translate because obviously the coroner took a copy but you know it was taking them time so I thought I'm just going to do it myself so so every night I'd sit there Google Translate read every single page and then like week later read it all again take notes highlight things you know yes like questions that that obviously we had as a family that you know we didn't understand but but we did get a lot of answers also you took part in a channel 4 documentary where you allowed um part of the pathologists examination of Jay's remains to be filmed and not in a grution or visceral way at all but just and I watched that and I thought did you do that because you wanted full transparency at that point you're being put under so much pressure with so many questions about what happened to your lad that you sort of felt well I'm just going to open the door to this process because I thought that was a very brave thing to do and I wondered whether that was the motivation It was, really.

26:19Top and bottom, yeah. There were just that many conspiracies about it's not Jay and obviously his injuries. He got, you know, the video, going back to the video, he was stabbed on a beach and there were one about him being shot. And I just thought, do you know what? As awful as it is for us, we need to get the facts out there. But a lot of people still, you know, they don't want to believe the facts. Well, this is the other thing. Actually, a verdict of accidental death is recorded. Yeah. And you discover through the course of those 600 pages, but also the coroner's inquest, that unfortunately he tried to make this journey on foot.

27:00He didn't have the right equipment. It was rough terrain and he fell. It was a tragic, tragic accident. did that bring any comfort or closure that verdict so difficult to comprehend did it help to hear that it did um we can't we i mean as a family we you know we knew that that was the only explanation yeah i mean obviously we we we were there we were we we saw the terrain We walked some of the path that Jay would have walked. We saw drone footage of the path that all these people who say he couldn't have done this, he couldn't have done that. Well, he did and unfortunately he didn't make it. When you stand at the top, you can see the sea and unless you're there and you see it for yourself, yes you've absolutely you know no idea so he's done that thing of looking and thinking it's not actually that far yeah yeah also like he hadn't slept much he'd been up he'd been drinking again i say this it's all very well moralizing this is the stuff that teenage boys do yeah they can sometimes do stuff that later proves to be lacking in judgment and most of the time they get away with it yeah you know i think that's why your story has resonated with so many people who are on your side and not on the side of these vile trolls that make things so worse.

28:35This is every parent's nightmare. We can understand how this plays out because we know what young people are like and they think they're invincible. Exactly. You also had that message that Brad, his friend, had received sort of with Jay admitting that he was in trouble at that point. Yeah, that was a shock. That was awful. so when we'd been out to Tenerife in the November got his phone, got the file and everything we'd turned his phone on but we just went on the call log and we just said we're not going to sit here and go through it all we'll get back so we got back and the day after we went to Zach's we met at Zach's and Zach signed into Jay's Snapchat and obviously Wi-Fi signal a message sent to Brad.

29:29Brad must have had his phone on him at the time. Immediately messaged me, have you got Jay's phone? I said, yeah, we've just signed into his Snapchat. He said, a message has just come through from Jay. And then we looked and the message said, I'm not going to make it. And that was really upset us, you know. but he was lost he was lost if there was any positive to be had from the coroner's report is that he didn't actually suffer because he fell and hit his head which again is small comfort really

30:22let's move forward to now debbie because you are now calling for something called jay's law tell me how that would work what what do you want the government to do in response to how you his friends and the family have been treated by some of these online keyboard warriors? Yeah, so Jay's Law, obviously, I've had a lot of support and help from my local MP around this. That's Sarah Smith. So that's Sarah Smith, yeah. So, yeah, so I've actually been down to Parliament and had a chat with Sarah. I've also met her at our local office. She set up a meeting with the Secretary of State for our future digital economy and online safety.

31:09And we've got a petition that we're waiting to be authorised in Parliament and we can start to share it. And it's just really about protecting vulnerable families that have gone through, obviously, what we've gone through because we're not the first family to suffer at the hands of social media. and we just think that, you know, like, Ofcom regulate what we can watch and listen to on normal TV. Absolutely. But on these social media platforms, there's just nothing. So it would just be about either changing a law, creating a new law, some legislation around the misinformation that gets spread on social media.

32:00Yes. just to have it removed you know I mean I've reported so many things my friends family you know wider friends and people who just contact me I mean I get loads and loads of messages you report it it doesn't get removed I mean there's an irony here isn't there because there's been a lot of stories that the Telegraph has done about the police sort of policing our thoughts and our tweets rather than our streets and yet in the case you're not the first person I've spoken to that's been a victim of horrific trolling. Nothing seems to be done. I mean, first of all, why are these people allowed to do it anonymously?

32:37Second of all, if they are financially gaining from spreading disinformation, misinformation, inaccurate information, why are they allowed to continue being platformed by some of these tech giants? I know. I mean, it's staggering to think, just reading this here in the notes, over 30 million videos were produced online speculating about jay's whereabouts and then the circumstances of his death it's a frightening amount isn't it and then on one hand i suppose it's tricky because there are people out there who are sleuthing and it might be useful so at the point where you're trying to find out what went on you know maybe some people can prove useful oh i saw him here but it's so difficult to separate the wood from the trees and the truth from the lies.

33:24Yeah, yeah. So you're going to lobby on his behalf to try and get some kind of period of quiet? What would have been good for you? In retrospect, looking back, what could you have benefited from? How can we avoid this happening to others? Because we spoke about the McCanns earlier, who are almost like the original victims of grotesque online trolling, okay? And to be fair to that couple, they still haven't found out what's happened to Madeline. we also had the case of nicola bully yeah and the family being traumatized by all of this online speculation yeah just thinking about it having lived this nightmare personally what what would have helped you having some kind of like a period a grace period or something like why are people making these videos or just to have tech giants react if people are spouting totally offensive and uncorroborated nonsense.

34:19Yeah, just to react and to swiftly remove the misinformation. Yeah. You know, I mean, there is reports, you know, with police and things like that. Against some of the key protagonists. Yeah, yeah, but I don't think, you know, I mean, it takes time. You know, I'll ring, I've got an update, and it's like, well, no, not yet, it takes time, but... Yeah. and tell me the effect that this has had not just on you you're dealing with the death of your beloved son but you're also I mean how stressful has all of this online stuff been just to contextualize it for people not just for you by the way but I'd imagine Brad, Lucy, Zach, other mates who were also tarred oh why didn't you do this why didn't you do that are you involved in this.

35:05I know, yeah. It's, I mean, Jay, like, was popular was Jay, loads and loads of friends and, you know, for his friends to have to read things like that, listen to things like that. I mean, I know people just say, well, just stay off social media. But it's difficult this day and age for young people, isn't it? Because that's what they do. And seeing things like that written about Jay, I mean, not one of them, no Jay, no the family no you know they don't know anything about us no uh i mean there's probably a video being made now as we speak yes and no doubt this video of yes you know i'll get ripped to pieces well so will i but i mean yeah there could be some commenters below this very podcast saying i don't believe this and i don't believe that yeah to conclude debbie it's it's so hard as well isn't it to have your lovely boy sort of become public property in some way everyone's got an opinion shall we end on a more positive note I mean I would hope that although you've had to deal with all of this that other members of the public that didn't know him have offered support and love towards you I mean I hope there's been that outpouring has there oh there is yeah it's overwhelming really the messages you know just people who don't know us didn't know Jay that you know were touched by by his story you know his first holiday going missing You know, I do get a lot of messages saying, ignore these online, you know.

36:36Yeah, something beginning with B. Yeah, a lot of, yeah. But yeah, that does outweigh it, but it's still just really difficult and they've dehumanised my baby. Yeah. You know, I weren't out there dealing drugs and money laundering and... No, how easily people forget that every person who might appear in headlines is someone's son, is someone's brother, is someone's friend. How would you like Jay to be remembered? Just as our lovely looking boy who was so loved and he gave that love back to us. You know, he was just everything. He was affectionate. He was just everything. I was missing my own passion.

37:37Debbie Duncan, thank you very, very much indeed for joining on The Daily Teal. Thank you.

37:56Thank you.