Kemi says trust Tories not Reform on the economy. But do voters care?

0:02The Telegraph.

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1:18Camilla: After Reform have spent the weekend dominating the headlines, Kemi Badenok fights back, insisting that the Tories are the only party in the country to be trusted with the economy. We're here listening, aren't we, Tim? But is anyone else? Meanwhile, Labour's deputy leadership contest is turning into a catfight. Belle, Ribeiro, Addy, Emily Thornberry, Lucy Powell and Bridget Phillipson. Are there any men in the Labour Party? Welcome to The Daily Tea with me, Tim Stanley. And me, Camilla Tominey.

1:58Camilla: So, Tim, we're in the Square Mile. We're somewhere in Moorgate. It's something to do with accountants. It's taken us three and a half days to get here because of the tube strike. Yes. And this is about Kemi taking back control of the news agenda. She's saying that the other parties, all the other parties in Westminster, are all left-wing on the economy. Therefore, come with me and I will give you back your country. Yes. She wants to focus on welfare reform. She set this up online by saying that she had a big offer to make to Keir Starmer. Well, the big offer is that she will sit down and discuss a welfare package that she will support with him if he can't get it through his parliamentary left, who, of course, helped to defeat welfare reform earlier this year and who are now focused on possibly electing Emily Thornberry or A.N.

2:48Other as a deputy leadership candidate. So I guess it's politically clever to try to take advantage of the split in Labour to say we, the Tories, are the sensible people who are going to get welfare reform through the House. On the other hand, everyone's attention is on the theatrics of reform. Everyone's attention is on the deputy leadership election. Are many people going to pay attention to this? Especially when, as we put to Kemi, there weren't many details of what the welfare reform would involve in her speech.

3:19Camilla: And we're going to hear from Kemi Badenock directly in just a moment. I do think this is a good place for her to pivot for the following reasons. She cannot win on immigration. She cannot out Farage Farage. And the criticism will always be, well, under you, immigration hit an all time high. So you're not one to preach on the economy, however, she's on steadier ground. Yes, there are obvious criticisms to be made of the last 14 years of Tory rule. Lackluster chancellors coming up with piffling concessions to businesses, putting up corporation tax by six percentage points, which was just absolutely ridiculous, frankly, in light of everything the Conservatives were claiming when it came to SMEs.

4:00Camilla: However, yes, reform are quite left-wing on the economy. They're talking about re-nationalisation, re-industrialisation. As we've discussed, Farage has been quite J.D. Vance about the whole thing. Somebody like Richard Tice or even Zia Youssef haven't got any record when it comes to running the Treasury, OK? The latter, well, both of them are very successful businessmen, but are they trusted? The one good figure in the Conservatives' favour is the fact that they have managed to accrue more in donations than any other party over recent months. So she's got the confidence of the business community.

4:34Camilla: Well, the high rollers that operate around these parts, we're in the square mile, are saying to themselves, look, if I'm not leaving the country, where am I going to put my money? I'm not going to put it with Labour or any of the left-wing parties because they're socialists. I don't at the moment think the reform are tried and tested enough to invest in. Therefore, I'm going to have to give my money to the Tories. Quite why she hasn't made more of this, and that's down to bad comms probably, remains to be seen. But actually, I think she can navigate quite a safe path. I've described this before.

5:03Camilla: It's like where reform meets reality and Labour meets economic calamity, the Conservatives can possibly rise like the cream to the top. But the central question is always, does anyone care what she's saying? Does anybody care? Well, the first post-conference poll suggests that reform has actually lost two points. Right. Which implies the conference didn't go down as well as people thought. That doesn't surprise me, because I think it was a conference aimed at its members rather than trying to win the middle ground. Some of the stuff, bringing out Lucy Connolly, bringing on someone who appeared to dabble in vaccine denial may well have backfired.

5:39Yeah. Yeah. Kemi Beidnock is involved in a project of trying to make the Tories look like the sensible option again. And this is where being boring could be an advantage. Because when people come to think, I hate Labour, I want rid of them, and I've got to elect an actual government, they're going to look at the team, look at the policies and say, what adds up? What looks competent? And there's an argument for saying that reform isn't bothering with that right now, or possibly might not be capable of doing it. whereas the Tories just by plugging away on the economy. That might be the Tory difference at the next election.

6:12You don't like us, but maybe we're a safer pair of hands with your finances.

6:18Camilla: So let's have a look at some of the highlights of her speech. Let's listen to her when she talks about the Tories being the only party on the right when it comes to the economy. Every single other political party in Parliament today, every single one wants to increase welfare spending and they voted to do so. They want to lift the two-child benefit cap. They don't mind that our sickness benefits bill alone is on course to reach$100 billion by 2030. There are some people in government who must know that things need to change. You can picture their faces looking at the latest OVR figures, but the truth is they came into government with no real plans for how to save money, only how to spend it.

6:58Camilla: Also, to be fair to Kemi, as is ever the case, she is a good, clear speaker. she does kind of entertain the crowd with quite Thatcherite rhetoric. I thought the part where she talked about the standard of living not being an entitlement was a good one. Let's just have a listen to that. There is a hard truth that we must face up to in this country that we must be brave enough to confront. Britain's standard of living is not an entitlement. It is the sum of our collective efforts. There is no guarantee that we will enjoy a particular quality of life just because we are the United Kingdom. If we want it, we have to earn it.

7:35If we want to stay wealthy, we have to produce wealth. We cannot print it. And those politicians spending money on things we cannot afford or making promises they can't pay for are misleading you. They are fooling you. And your children, my children, our children will pay the bill. I'm just not sure who wants to be told they're not entitled to a good standard of living because I feel I am. And there is some tension, I feel, between talking about welfare reform and standing in possibly the richest part of London. So the welfare reform is not pitched at helping the poor to help them into work. It's pitched as, I can save money and therefore your taxes won't go up.

8:14And maybe that's a good thing. OK, that's very Margaret Thatcher. Sounds good. But I'd quite like to be given. I like being given free stuff by the government.

8:23Camilla: Do you know what? People like to be given free stuff more and more since COVID. Yes. I mean, it is interesting how even socially conservative people can be quite Corbynistic leaning when it comes to the economy. Also, I don't think people want to sort of pull the ladder up, Jack. It's not like greed is good, the 1980s. People are much more compassionate with their economic conservatism than they were in the past. Having said all that, this report out today, which is going great guns on the Telegraph website, that we are kind of like the sick country of Europe, that sickness in the UK and people signing off sick is at a record high, is hugely disturbing.

9:02Camilla: What's interesting about what Badenock has suggested here is it's actually not as radical as that very hard right conservative Jeremy Hunt. Now, when we did the podcast with Jeremy Hunt and he's written this book about how Britain should grow again, he suggested that we should slash 50 billion, 5-0 billion from the welfare budget. She was talking in terms of trying to slash about 12 billion. It's kind of piffling in comparison to some of the reforms that Ian Duncan Smith brought in, which I think reduced the bill by about 30 billion. Is the Conservative leader going far enough on this? And the question is, what is the alternative?

9:38Because the Tories are pushing quietly the message that Labour is likely to come after wealth rather than turning to the IMF. And that would make sense, because there's a lot of money tied up in property and pensions, etc. And with Labour in so much trouble and with a deputy leadership contest on, which is going to favour the left in one way or another, it sort of feels like Rachel Reeves might be reaching for the wealth tax lever.

10:02Camilla: The other problem for Kemi Badenock is that she keeps on criticising reform for being all talk and no trousers. Indeed, it's a Labour attack line, isn't it? You're coming out with all of the rhetoric, but none of the detail. I think they've said that they're coming up with a don't know manifesto, you know, nothing in it really. But when you ask the opposition leader to flesh out her own ideas, can you put a bit of meat on the bones here? What's your actual policy? She does struggle to answer. That's the question I put to her at the press conference. Hi, Camilla Tominey, Daily Tea Podcast. You're saying that you're serious and that you're the only party that can be trusted on the economy, but we haven't actually heard any policies on the economy from you specifically.

10:42Camilla: Some think that when the Tories were in office, they were actually anti-business by putting up corporation tax, that you didn't keep income tax down enough. What are you actually going to do, for instance, on tax? And I don't mean outline your manifesto now, but give us some ideas that you might be exploring. So thank you, Camilla. As a former business secretary, I know exactly what business was telling us. And there are many mistakes that the party made. I wasn't the chancellor. I wasn't in the treasury. I am now trying to show that the Conservative Party is under new leadership and we need to show that we are authentic conservatives.

11:18That starts with fiscal responsibility, living within our means, but also recognising where money comes from. It's not just sitting there in a bank or being printed. It has to come from business. So we need policies that are going to get business booming again. Last week, I talked about one of our biggest policies on net zero. Net zero is an economic policy, and it is costing this country billions of pounds. I said we need to start drilling oil and gas in the North Sea again. Because right now what's happening is we're importing from Norway, who are drilling in the same basin, while we're closing down our businesses.

11:52There's about£150 billion worth of tax that the oil and gas industry can give us if we set them free. And that's just one example. There are many others. But we need to start looking to business to get the growth, not to Rachel Rees, because she doesn't know how to. And then we spoke to her afterwards on this very stage with these beautiful flags. Kemi, welcome to The Daily Tea. Thank you for joining us. Thank you. Did you have a nice holidays? Not much of a holiday. I was still working, but it was a nice summer. Did you watch the Reform Conference? No, no, I didn't. Okay, because my question is, do you have any plans to sing at the Tory conference?

12:25Absolutely not. Maybe the national anthem. But no, no, I will not be putting on a sequined jumpsuit and singing. What a pity, what a pity. Now, you advertise this as making a bold offer to the Prime Minister on welfare. and the bold offer is to sit down with him and discuss it. But we were thinking, but what actually is it you're going to offer him? What is it that you're going to put on the table? 120 Conservative MPs. That is something significant because he has quite a lot of hard left Labour backbenchers who only know how to spend our money. They don't know how to earn it and they don't want to make any savings.

13:07We saw what happened in July when the prime minister was held hostage. He changed his welfare savings bill and turned it into a welfare increase bill. I mean, that was extraordinary. And we're picking up where we left off. We can see that he has this problem. It is in the national interest for us to help him. And people complain that we're always arguing and we never do anything collaborative. So this is my olive branch to Keir Starmer. I'm saying, well, why don't we get our teams together and try and find some common ground where we can make savings? OK, and that's very striking. But you take my point that some viewers will be thinking, where's the beef?

13:44What are you actually going to offer? What is it you're asking him to cut? So one of the things that we have seen is that since COVID, a million people have gone out of work. And when we looked into it to try and find out what was going on, we have found that removing the in-person assessments means that a lot of people just ring up and say, well, actually, I just don't, you know, I just don't think I can do this or I've got anxiety. They don't get properly assessed. And so many people are claiming benefits for what are very low level conditions, low level anxiety and depression. That's where a lot of the spending is going.

14:19So let's start from there. It's not going to fix everything, but let's at least start with the obvious area where we can find savings. Camilla asked about tax, and forgive me, I don't feel you really answered her. What is the Tory offer on tax at this stage? I know you're saying I'm not going to write my manifesto now, and that's very sensible. But for instance, reform, maybe one reason why it is getting so much attention is because, for instance, it's talking about taking people out of tax up to 20 ,000. It is putting out policies. So what is the Tory offer on tax? Yes, but if the policies don't add up, then it's not real.

14:52A policy needs to have a plan behind it. Otherwise, it's a slogan. If I said I'm going to give everybody in the country£100 million a year, that's a policy. I know you would. That's an announcement, but it's not a real policy because you can't afford it. And what we are right now is in a situation where our numbers are not adding up. And we've got to cut spending first before we bring in tax cuts. I want to see tax cuts. I love tax cuts. We pay too much tax in this country. It was too high under the Conservatives. This is one of the things that we need to change. It's even higher now under Labour.

15:30We know that Labour don't even know how to cut taxes. But in order to do so, we need to have a proper plan, which is not something that we have seen from Nigel Farage. We are making sure that we are the fiscally responsible party. If you want to cut tax, then you can't be voting to increase welfare. He wants to increase welfare, how's he going to pay for that? I'm going to hand over to Camilla, but I want to ask, yes or no, are you sad to lose Nadine Dorries? I wish Nadine very well in her new party. I'm sure she's going to get on just fine where she is.

16:02Camilla: yeah I'll just reflect on somebody on x saying she's nigel problem now which probably is a bit harsh on welfare the telegraph today has been reported on this record sickness this idea that uk is the sort of sick country of europe and that people are taking too many days off we've also done extensive reporting on how many young people are on benefits these days who are not in education or employment. As a mum, do you worry about that? You spoke a lot about the economic legacy that our children are going to inherit. You've got three kids, I've got three kids. There's this growing sense that children are increasingly mentally ill.

16:42Camilla: I mean, do you believe, for instance, if we look at the benefit stats, that one in four children in the UK today suffers from a mental health problem? So I think that we need to build more resilience in the younger generation. And, And, you know, as you said, I'm a mum. I've got three kids myself. I've got one in secondary school, two in primary school. And I think that we've created a society that's actually sort of, you know, just coddles quite a lot. And if we don't tackle that, then you end up with young adults who aren't resilient. I don't think, as I said in July, that one in four people in our country is disabled.

17:20We can't afford that. That doesn't make any sense. And I don't think that one in four young people may have a serious mental health condition. I think that they do believe that they have one, though, because everything is sort of medicalised nowadays. And I think that we need to start looking at what kind of society we are turning into. Let's build in more resilience. But that also means that the state and the government doesn't need to accept every single story that people provide. What's happening on welfare is also happening in immigration. lots of people who clearly are not asylum seekers claiming asylum and the state takes everything at face value.

17:58This is one of the reasons why I've started toughening up what we're doing on immigration, you know, our deportation bill, making it longer for people to get British citizenship. And I want us to do something similar on welfare. We didn't have people claiming for many of these conditions not that long ago. So let's go back to where we were.

18:16Camilla: How high is your maternal bar for your children not going into school? Mine's high because I'm the daughter of a GP. So you literally had to be partially decapitated. Yes, I did not know that. I'm also the daughter of a GP. And my father thought the paracetamol fixed everything. So I'm pretty sure that I went to school very ill. And my husband is actually even tougher than I am. Because I think sometimes I look at my youngest in particular. They're like, oh, she was in reception. She doesn't need to go to school. And my husband says, nope, they need to go to school because otherwise they will grow up thinking that they can just opt out of things.

18:54And I think that we need to start becoming more productive as a society. We're not earning as much as we used to. We're not producing as much. Other countries are getting more and more competitive. And what really scares me is that a lot of our most entrepreneurial, most energetic young people are leaving the UK because they don't think it's a place where they can do well. They're going to the US, they're going to Dubai, you know, of all places. They're going to the Middle East when it used to be the other way around. And I think all of this is related. So let's start fixing it. Welfare is a good place to start.

19:26Camilla: We're also discussing on this podcast the race to become the next deputy leader of the Labour Party, which seems to be completely dominated by women. We haven't had a male candidate come forward yet. Harriet Harman thinks this is a great thing. She thinks that the next deputy leader must, she stated, must be a woman. Do you agree with that? I think the reason why they're all women is because the women aren't allowed to do the top job, so they've got to settle for second place. They've never had a female leader. And I think it is partly because of the way that they end up doing all of this endless quotas, women only this, women only shortlist.

20:04I remember Rachel Reeves congratulating herself in her first budget on being the first female chancellor. What people are going to remember is that she's probably the worst chancellor we've ever had. And I think that's bad for women. She's bad for our economy. And we need to get Labour into a place where they're focused on fixing problems rather than on their optics, their internal party dynamics or whatever else is on their plates this morning.

20:27Camilla: So are you saying that Keir Starmer's sort of positive discrimination has failed and that Labour women haven't done very well so far? Well, I don't think that even the women are happy with the parties going. They seem to be the ones having the most complaints. I don't know whether it's to do with positive discrimination, but someone was telling me the other day that all of the people who've had to resign in disgrace from government have actually been women. I think that's actually a coincidence. But it is something that I think Labour spend way too much time talking about identity politics and what people, sex or gender or races and congratulating themselves on the first this and the first that.

21:02It's something that I don't like doing. I think people need to look at the content of your character, not your sex, not the colour of your skin. Are you good at your job? Are you there on merit? That's where we need to be. And perhaps if they did that, then we would have better people running our country right now.

21:16Camilla: Kemi Badenok, we shall see you at the Conservative Party conference. Looking forward to it.

21:25Camilla: What a day it is for the political women of the world, Tim. Yes, I feel redundant. I know, what's the point of you? There needs to be a trade union for men. Is there an affiliated trade union for men in the Labour Party? Just men are irrelevant right now. We've got Marine Le Pen over in France, you know, just walking all over Emmanuel Macron's grave right now. And then in the Labour Party, it's just a sisterhood, really. It's a friendly sisterhood of progressive love as the likes of Emily Thornberry and Bridget Philipson go head to head for deputy leadership. Well, we'll be discussing that next.

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22:44Camilla: So from one Tory woman to talking about Labour women, is there any point in being a Labour man these days? No, there really isn't. It is funny, isn't it, when Harriet Harman said it must be a woman, it felt like the word of God descended on the party. Harman decrees it. Probably lots of men thought there's literally no point in me running. So the race is very interesting. We were discussing the other day with Jacob Rees-Mogg tribal identity within the Labour Party, about how a lot of people were elected, hundreds of new MPs were elected, many of them under the age of eight. They had no idea really what their politics were, they just got caught up in this.

23:23They've spent a year in Parliament, over a year, in which they have seen cuts, various controversies, they have reason for their conscience to be tested. And this race is now a chance for those MPs to define themselves by who they support. And if you look at the four women declared thus far, they are an insight into the different tribes within Labour.

23:45Camilla: Yes. So you have Belle Ribeiro Addy, who is the socialist campaign group candidate, essentially Diane Abbott adjacent, a Corbynite in other words. She probably won't get very far because Keir Starmer kicked so many Corbynites out of the party. Then on the left you have Emily Thornberry, who is running very obviously as the dissenting candidate. Now, her tweet when she announced said, we fought hard for a Labour government. We've made mistakes and must listen. Welfare, Gaza, wealth tax changes to come on send. I'm not quite sure what she meant by that. But I will be a voice for the membership of unions, PLP and our constituents, not just nod along.

24:27So a vote for her is obviously a vote of protest against the direction the party's taken. And then more towards the centre and right, you have Lucy Powell who is running. Powell probably put up by number 10 because she looks like she might be soft left and that might draw some votes away from Emily Thornberry. In her announcement, Powell emphasised that she lives in Manchester.

24:48Camilla: That qualifies her to be deputy leader of the Labour Party alone. That's more or less it. I live north of the Watford Gap, therefore I deserve this. I understand real people like you. She's living there in a very wealthy, very urban, very socially liberal city. and it's very Labour. Manchester's not a normal city, right? And then finally, the candidate that Keir wants is Bridget Phillipson, the Education Secretary, whose announcement was, some people have compared it to the Four Yorkshiremen sketch in Monty Python's, you know, I grew up in a cardboard box. We couldn't afford a cardboard box. In the middle of the street.

25:21Her sob story as she grew up, single mother on a council street, quite sure what that is.

25:27Camilla: A street on a council estate, is it? But she is from the north. That's the key thing she wants to emphasize is she's from the North. Not just the North. She's from really far North. This is a good insight into how the Labour mind works. When you have betrayed all of your principles, if you had any, what is left to run on? It's I'm a woman and I'm from the North. It's identity. That's all there is left to run on. And I'm not sure that will work because the Labour Party membership, maybe not the PLP, but the membership is motored by ideas. People join Labour because they want to do specific things in government.

26:00And if they are faced with a choice between vote for me, you think I'm really right wing, but hey, I'm from the north, versus vote for me, OK, I'm Emily Thornberry, I'm a bit posh, and I'm from South Islington, so North London at least. I think they'll go with her because she's actually the socialist with ideas.

26:20Camilla: And she can be the thorn in Starmer's side because she's got an axe to grind. Yes. Starmer dumped her after she revealed to me on my GB News show that one of the consequences of adding VAT to private school fees would be that class sizes in state schools will get bigger. You and I knew that would be the case because it was always going to prompt an exodus. We've seen that over recent years and months, not least with the start of the new school term. But apparently everyone in Labour was saying, no, don't admit that's going to happen. There will be no exodus. And because she had the good grace, frankly, to admit that there might be, she was immediately canned and she was told you're not coming back into the cabinet.

26:57Camilla: So she's certainly got some beef with the Prime Minister. And how interesting that so many women do. I mean, Kemi raised that point in the interview. Yes. The number of women who've been dismissed or fallen out with the Prime Minister, it comes back to this does he have a woman problem. And I don't think anyone's suggesting he's a raging misogynist. But there are suggestions that the Morgan McSweeney number 10 operation is a bit butch. Well, it's as blokey as the Brexit years under Johnson, where the same criticism was levelled at the likes of Dominic Cummings and Lee Cain and all of these likely lads going around thinking they were great not taking any advice from any women on Covid restrictions for instance there were a few ministers like Helen Waitley going hi is it a good idea to close schools is it a good idea to take people directly from hospital and put them in care homes and none of the men sort of recognise any of that and the definitive image of Labour's crisis was the Chancellor crying.

27:51Camilla: Indeed. And that may have been, if I may call it that girl-on-girl action. That may well have been girl-on-girl. Because we think it was Rainer versus Reeves, even though both sides denied it. And Rainer's sort of in office but not in power because she's being undermined by the arrival of new advisors. Some female, some male. Torsten Bell in the background. And poor old Reeves. There are these men vying for her job already. Pat McFadden versus Darren Jones. So we're not talking about what Rachel's actually doing. We're talking about the men plotting to replace Rachel at some point. But can I just say about Bridget Philipson, she is not to be underestimated.

28:28Camilla: I agree with you that as the Starmer candidate versus the non-Starmer candidate, the membership might prefer Thornberry. However, Philipson will have won some plaudits for clobbering rich, privileged, middle-class Tory scumbags like me that pay to educate two out of my three children in a private school. Indeed. My goodness, I live in the home counties as well. So I'm literally not a real human being. And I criticised the rail strikes yesterday. So I do not understand apparently working people. So she's won some praise for that. She is also borrowed a lot of her economic policy from Daniel Kabidi, the head of the National Education Union, which is very closely aligned with the membership.

29:12Camilla: You know, he's pro-Palestinian and wants private schools to be abolished and all the rest of it. So in that regard, she's good. However, unlike Thornberry, who famously once sneered at St George's flags being flown, actually Phillipson is quite old school patriotic. She's written also some quite right leaning stuff for The Telegraph. She's written pieces in the past about how we need to remove anti-Semitism and too much pro-Palestine rhetoric from our schools and universities. she suggested clampdowns on parents over absenteeism she's even shock horror raised the issue of fatherlessness and how difficult that can be for working families you know she's not stridently socialist yes even though she's got lefty leanings yes and that actually might be quite a good appointment when it comes to trying to play to the reform crowd she's also as we almost speak speaking to the TUC yes she probably is quite popular with trade union leadership and that's important and she wants to be Prime Minister.

30:16Bridget Phillipson is very ambitious and it's a not very well kept secret that she is aiming for the top job.

30:22Camilla: Do you know when I know how ambitious Labour ministers are and it's this. Many Labour ministers are happy to just do interviews on my GB News show on a Sunday down the line. There are some who insist on coming into the studio. Wes Streeting is one. He wants to have the fight in person. yes Bridget Phillips and is the other so we have these funny little situations where Bridget comes in and we have a nice girly chat about what we're both wearing and our children and how life's going and then it becomes completely adversarial as soon as the cameras start rolling because she knows I'm going to have a go at her about the VAT on private school fees which she claims I'm obsessed with I make the point that I've got kids in both state and private and it affects both sectors and we have this kind of to and fro and she is like the ice maiden but with a little smile there's a little glint in her eye like she's really enjoying this she likes a scrap she's not afraid of a fight so actually you know i'd be slightly worried if i was emily thornberry so does emily thornberry i know i mean if they were actually going to have a physical fight i would back thornberry every step of the way i would do i wouldn't underestimate philipson's ability to just come out with a right hook i i'm very fond of emily there was a period i think during her wilderness years when she was on telly a lot and I was on telly a lot at that time and we were on I think two question signs and in any question on the same panel wow and I said to her people will say we're having an affair the look on her face was it disgust or delight Tim I couldn't tell it's just the Emily Thornberry look there is a certain sort of just there's it's like oh but also what I like she she squints at you yes she's a big squinter yes but she's also good fun i mean we will go to labour party conference be widely hated by 99 of the people who attend maybe not you so much because you were once one of them they literally look at me like i am the devil incarnate and in the midst of it all i'll see some of the labour girls i used to play football with and we'll have a nice chat and then And I will see Emily Thornberry outside a tent somewhere having a fag.

32:31Camilla: And I'll be able to go up to her and just go, hi, how are you? And she'll be nice. To be fair, I will be able to do the same with Philipson. And to be fair as well, Powell. She's always a good girl, always up for a bit of bance. I don't know Ribeiro Addy, but I think she's the outside hope anyway. I think you're probably right. I saw Emily in Parliament yesterday. I walked past her. She was wearing a bright red jacket. She was squinting at her iPad. and I said good luck and she gave this wonderful sort of waterfall of a laugh and I just thought this is going to be so much fun Shall we hope that those two do make it into the final you can be the Farnbury fanboy I can be the Philipson fangirl and we will see who wins this race and we'll be back with more coverage of all of this and more tomorrow at 5pm

33:27Thank you.