‘Pheromone maxing’: Gen Z men are refusing to shower to pick up girls

0:02The Telegraph.

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1:42Happy Saturday. Before we get into the weekend tea, just a reminder that the Daily Tea is moving home. Don't forget to subscribe to the new channel. The link is in the description. It's really easy. just press the button and you'll get the same great content. Here's Poppy and Michael. Enjoy. Hello and welcome to The Weekend Tea. I'm Poppy Coburn.

2:02Poppy Coburn: And I'm Michael Deacon. You know what we're going to have to talk about this week? Again, Michael, Harry and Meghan. Yes, well, I mean, it's been a week of jubilation for the whole country. Scenes of rejoicing in the streets, I mean, spontaneous street parties. I mean, I was almost late for my train this morning because I'm having to fight through all the throngs of patriotic revellers. I twisted my ankle on a discarded Jeroboam of champagne. The country's gone mad. Everyone's overjoyed. Is that how it is around your way, Poppy? Everyone celebrating? The return of Harry and Meghan are returning heroes.

2:36I don't know what's going on in Kent, but here in liberal metropolitan London, I've got the impression that absolutely nobody cares, which is a nice thing, isn't it, Michael? Because we have been told for years, Harry and Meghan, there's one thing they care about very deeply. It's their privacy.

2:51Poppy Coburn: And we're damn well going to give them it. We're going to give them every wish. In spades, they'll be getting their privacy. We won't mention the names again until after this episode where we apparently have to talk about it. But there you go. Anyway, it is very exciting to have them back. They have moved back. They touched down Birmingham Airport Wednesday afternoon. Tremendously excited. That's a horrible introduction back into the UK. Birmingham Airport. It could have been Luton. Come on. But everyone is sort of desperate, or at least the media anyway, desperate to catch a glimpse of them coming off their private plane.

3:24Poppy Coburn: But as far as anyone can see, they didn't have any kind of sort of special police escort. And that's been a big topic this week. Are we, the taxpayer, going to be forced to pay for their security? Now, we know that the Sussexes themselves want it to be paid for, because it's incredibly expensive, the kind of security they would expect. Just ask Nigel Farage. It costs a lot of money. There you go, indeed. but the public aren't quite so keen on this idea. There was a YouGov poll earlier this week asked people, you know, do you think the taxpayer should pay for any or indeed all of the Sussex's security costs once they come back to the UK?

4:01Poppy Coburn: And 71 % of British people said not a single penny. Only 2 % said, oh yes, the taxpayer should pay in full. Maybe that 2 % would like to pay for it themselves. I don't know. But nonetheless, yes, the overwhelming majority of British people saying No, you can pay your own way. Thank you very much. These are absolutely incredible figures. I mean, I expect these sort of proportions for saying, let's get Gary Blitter back in Britain hosting Top of the Pops again. I mean, it's very rare that our country is completely united in not actually wanting to do something like this. Yes, I have to say, I do kind of side with the majority on this one because I think, you know, people understandably feel that the Sussexes kind of, you know, kind of lost their entitlement to taxpayer funded security the moment they chose to quit their royal duties and live as private citizens.

4:49Poppy Coburn: You know, well, private citizens have to pay for their own security, I'm afraid. I mean, basically, the message to them is, look, here's the deal. You are free, but your security isn't. Well, exactly. I think the problem is with them coming over is that I think it was a bit of a manipulative move, because I think they're going to get their security paid for anyway. I mean, Andy Burnham was asked immediately when the news of the leak was breaking about them actually returning to the UK, are you going to put up taxpayer money to pay for their security? And he was like, oh, well, it's a private matter.

5:18I'm thinking about it. Maybe we will. Maybe we won't. I don't know how we're going to avoid it, but it's going to cost us millions of pounds. And there's no guarantee they're not just going to leave again.

5:28Poppy Coburn: Well, well, quite. I suppose for the sake of balance, I should try and put the other side of the argument here, which is, you know, supporters of the Sussexes, and they do exist. they would argue that well prime ministers former prime ministers get taxpayer funded security for their lives even if they've quit their job which is true but i think that's a little bit different i mean for one thing we don't think of being prime minister as a job for life unlike you know being a working royal um and which is mainly why we don't tend to get quite so upset when prime ministers uh quit in fact we're usually quite happy about it celebrations in the streets i don't i don't know about you but i kind of feel much happier paying sir keir starmer to be a former prime minister so i i feel it's a little bit different than the sussex's situation and the all important thing which is that in theory we do actually get to choose our prime ministers but we didn't get to choose who was going to be the prince or indeed who he was going to marry now hang on a minute that's that's what kind of woke lefty talk is this my republican street coming oh my good god are you are you going to abolish the monarchy keep it well please don't tell i think we're We're going to have to edit that out, frankly.

6:30Poppy Coburn: We're going to have to edit that all out. Can we move on from this absolutely horrific couple and talk about an American that we actually love and who's loved throughout the world? Very sad news, Dolly Parton has passed away. Dolly Parton at the age of 80, yes. She was fantastic, fantastic. I mean, not just fantastic, incredibly successful musician, but also she just seemed like a great all-round person. People just loved her. A philanthropist, you know, who, you know, funded this fantastic sort of free book scheme for impoverished children across America and all this sort of thing. And she just constantly came across as a genuinely nice person, which partly, I think there's two reasons for this.

7:07Poppy Coburn: One is that she was just genuinely really funny. I mean, I was reading through some of her funniest lines and things like from interviews and stuff. I was the first woman to burn my bra. It took the fire department four days to put it out. I'm not offended by all the dumb blonde jokes because I know I'm not dumb. I also know that I'm not blonde. There you go. People always ask me how long it takes to do my hair. I don't know. I'm never there. You might also have seen, I don't know whether you read the Poppitch email. Of course I do. This week, yeah, well, then you may have seen the story in this week's from a reader.

7:38Poppy Coburn: A roadie once told me about working on one of Dolly Parton's tours years ago. On the first day of rehearsal, she arrived and gathered the whole crew around to introduce herself. She then lifted her shirt and said, there they are. Now you've seen them. Let's get to work. Amazing woman. Well, incredible. I think the great thing about Dolly Parton is that in the news of her death, she has managed to unite literally everyone. So a statement was put out by the DSA. This is the Democratic Socialists of America Alliance saying that she was a hero to the workers, which I can only assume is a reference to nine to five.

8:08You want a way to make a living. That's what makes sense. You know, Marx, Lenin, Parton, that classic Marxist triumvirate. But there's another person that's put out a statement in the wake of her death, and it was Donald J. Trump. And I read it aloud because it's actually shockingly very polite.

8:24Poppy Coburn: No way. Very sad to report that Dolly Parton, one of the greatest country singers and far beyond ever, has just passed away. This is a true loss for millions of people. There has never been anyone like her and never will. Now, this is the same Donald Trump that when people he doesn't like dies, basically just spits on their grave immediately. He doesn't believe in waiting till the body's cold, but he clearly loved Dolly Parton. He genuinely was. He's flying flags at half a mile. proof of universal popularity. I think the other key actually to her popularity was that she was so scrupulously non-political.

8:56Poppy Coburn: She never spoke about politics or any other kind of contentious social justice type issue, nothing like that. In fact, she's pretty much the only celebrity left in the world who is not desperate to tell us their thoughts about Gaza or climate change or or transgender ideology, or whatever it might be, Dolly Parton always very sensibly refused to burden us with her opinions, if indeed she had opinions on these subjects. And that's why nobody hated her. Because the moment you venture an opinion on those subjects, someone's going to hate you. It never happened to her. I'm curious as to who you think a British Dolly Parton would be, someone that would actually unite the country.

9:38That we would all remember and think, wow, what an amazing person.

9:41Poppy Coburn: It wouldn't be divisive I immediately thought of Sam Fox But that was for other reasons I don't think there is anyone Who is universally Is he universally popular? Not on my household I'm not knocking him by the way My father-in-law's a big fan But I feel he's not quite Dolly Parton I'm sure she's a great admirer of his So we've just had some very sad musical news About Dolly Parton But I'm afraid it gets much much worse More tragic even Andy Burnham has decided to put on a little concert for the nation of Ukraine, as if they are not suffering enough. He has done a cover of a Smith song. Let's take a listen.

10:20Poppy Coburn: It's a song called Rush Home Ruffians. I'm out of practice. Have you ever seen this?

10:35Poppy Coburn: I have to say, I have to say to you, the first time I saw this clip, I was a little bit puzzled because I tell you I'm a huge Smiths fan I know you're a big Smiths fan first time I watched this clip I turned up the sound and I thought I can't work out what Smiths song is he even trying to play there I had to sort of watch it for a bit and just try and make out what chords he was forming I thought is that Russian ruffians from Mita's murder but anyway yes it is apparently there's a bit of clip where he actually he actually confirms that that's what it was but I have to say he was not playing that at all at all well now I mean okay I should be the last person to slag off another man's guitar playing because, you know, I'm an absolutely hopeless guitar player myself.

11:15Poppy Coburn: In fact, I can tell you, and this is a true story. The bass player from Elastica once told me that I was the worst guitarist she had ever heard. Oh, my God. Ever? Yeah. I mean, OK, that's a long story. I won't bore everyone with that right now. But anyway, that is a mark of my ineptitude. But having heard Andy Burnham, I now believe there is a rival to my throne, shall we say. I think it's just so David Brent. It is. And I know that he's leaned into it. He did that little segment where he was like, oh, number 10 north, we're going to have it to the theme tune of The Office, the UK Off. Absolutely no way are you getting away with this, Andy.

11:51That is Brent behaviour. Going to a war zone full of people who are suffering, who are putting their lives in line every day, and using that moment to blackmail them into listening to your terrible cover of a Smith song, You Should Know Better.

12:03Poppy Coburn: Haven't they suffered enough? Michael, can I ask you a personal question? Go ahead. How are you identifying today, male or female? I'm mostly identifying as a worn out middle aged man today. That explains the shirt, yeah. As I have for some decades now, in fact. To be honest, I identified as a middle aged man when I was about eight years old. But in any case, why do you ask me this peculiar question? Well, I'm asking you the question because I'm identifying as shocked, appalled and very confused from Tunbridge Wells. There's a fantastic story about a gender-fluid police officer, which I suppose is a very niche category indeed, who's been given out different warrants, male and female, depending on which gender they identify as on that particular day.

12:44Poppy Coburn: Right, so they've been given more than one card. Yes. So if you're feeling male today, you present your male warrant card. You're feeling female today, you present your female warrant card. Yes, I suppose we have to explain what gender-fluid actually means, although to be honest with you, it beats me. I don't think we can, to be honest. I think we're just going to have to rely on our viewers to work it out for themselves. But I'm always a bit puzzled by this, Joy, because why do you need two separate cards? Couldn't you just have a single one and there's a male side and a female side? More convenient.

13:09Poppy Coburn: Double-sided paper. You have it on your lanyard and just flip it round. What happens if halfway through the day you suddenly go, like, having a woman moment, flip it round, it's the pink side is now on. That means, I mean, I guess you could use this in quite a manipulative way. Like, you've got to do a strip search of, like, someone who's potentially hidden drugs in an unsavory part of their body. Do you just flip it round to the female part and say, oh, I can't do that one. That's beyond me. Sorry, I don't fancy that today. Well, it's all very modern and compassionate and enlightened because these days, if you get arrested, the police don't just read you your rights.

13:39Poppy Coburn: They read you their pronouns as well. But I've got to say, actually, I don't think it goes far enough because after all, you know, male, female, that's only two identities. There's a lot more different gender identities than that. Well, I'm going to give you an example here. What if you've got a policeman or police person who is pan-gender? Now, pan-gender for anyone who is unfamiliar with this term. Pan-gender individuals identify with multiple or all genders, sometimes experiencing all these identities simultaneously. What does that even look like? I don't know how... What does that mean? I don't know how you'd fit that on a warrant card or how many warrant cards you would need.

14:17Poppy Coburn: If there's 76 genders, do you need 76 cards? I mean, you're knocking on a door or something. You're rummaging. I feel like a dice you get for Dungeons and Dragons. You'd have to roll it. A pack of car like Paul Daniels. Like some sort of gender-confused Paul Daniels sort of flipping through them going, hang on, I know it's in here somewhere. I don't know. But yeah, that's pangender. There's also agender. Now, someone who is agender has no gender at all. Now, I don't know if that means they need no warrant card. They go home for the day. They're like, you know what? I've had enough of this. I'm feeling agender.

14:49Poppy Coburn: I'm not a policeman. I'm not a policewoman. I'm just a police. Yes. That's it. So there you go. You can be someone with no gender at all. And I'm afraid the police forces need to get with the programme, I think, you know, and, you know, serve their agender officers. And yeah, good luck to them. It sounds a bit better than gender fluid, which I imagine could smell absolutely terrible. Oh, my God.

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15:45Poppy Coburn: you're either all in on this model or maybe you're building with another Either speed or is it security? Or you're AWS AI. Don't pick a side. Pick them all. AWS AI is how. Hi, this is Debbie Millman from the Design Matters podcast. And today's episode is sponsored by Lexus. Design isn't just about function. It is about feeling. At Lexus, every detail is intentionally designed. Master artisans don't just focus on what you can see. They obsess over what you can feel. The way the door closes. The precise click of a switch. The acoustic feedback of every control. Because a car that doesn't make you feel something is a car that stops short of amazing.

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16:48Let's move on to something a little bit less unpleasant. The humanoid robot Olympics being held in, where else, China. The videos of this are absolutely spectacular because, as you can expect, things did not go quite as smoothly as anticipated.

17:20Poppy Coburn: Yes, well, I'd read that they've got robot runners who've actually run faster than Usain Bolt's world record. But in Usain Bolt's defence, he may be a little bit of a slow coach, but at least he doesn't run smack into a wall and burst into flames on the hole. Or have his legs just fall off as he's travelling along. Indeed, yes, indeed. I'd say, you know, we laugh now, but we won't be laughing quite so hard when the robots rise up and kill us all. I mean, to be fair, actually watching these robots doing their slightly frightening because it's not just the only thing the Chinese do. They don't just make them do Olympics.

17:52Sometimes they do make them do backflips, kung fu, which is a little bit sinister because you can imagine, you know, a steel fist moving very quickly towards you. But they have this amazing propensity to malfunction in a very comedic way. It's like you can almost feel the panic in them where they can't get their footing and they're scrabbling along on the ground. Just imagine that person chasing after you because your social credit score's got too low. you could just trip them over sorted you'd be completely fine i i i can't really laugh i um

18:19Poppy Coburn: i find it unnerving as far as i'm concerned uh terminator 2 was not an action film it was it was a documentary it was a portent of the actual future i i swear honestly these these robots are going to become a bit more advanced and we will not be loving but i will just say just to lighten the tone a little bit i just want to quote um from uh a mac cartoon we had this week on the subject of the world humanoid robot games. There's a picture of a TV reporter saying a number of the competitors were disqualified after they tested positive for WD-40. There you go, classic Matt. There you are. Back onto the technology stakes.

18:54And this is something that I find very offensive because I am unfortunately guilty of doing this myself. Distracted Italian pedestrians who cross the road while on their phone could be fined. Should we do the same here, Michael?

19:05Poppy Coburn: Yeah, although I don't see why these phone zombies should just be fined when they're crossing the road. I mean, just on the pavement, really. Anywhere. What's wrong with that? What's wrong with that? Because they get in my way. People around the office will know me for this and probably hate me for this. I walk around because I'm like, I always am answering my emails. It's very easy to get in contact. Right, I see. And so there I am and I'm like texting as I'm walking through the office. And unfortunately, we do a lot of filming now, the Telegraph. So there has been moments where I've actually gone into shot and someone like Francis Danley is talking about the war in Ukraine.

19:35You can just see this slightly ditzy staffer walking by with a phone like texting someone and it will be me it will be me sorry i am guilty for that i am completely attached to it i use it all the time i have no etiquette goodness me jen's

19:48Poppy Coburn: well you um you're going to need to be careful walking around the office um because if you bump into the editor because frankly i think i think yeah you'd have better chance of surviving walking to the road getting hit by a car they're getting hit by our editor um no offense to him um but uh Yeah, so maybe, maybe we should start finding you, really. Just for your own safety, OK? Your own protection, your own career, really. I'm moving this on to safer territory. Let's talk about something nice and fluffy like Prue Leith. Prue Leith, yes. You tell me you have a Prue Leith story. I do. Well, it's not a Prue Leith story, but it's prompted by something that Prue Leith has said because she, of course, is formerly of the Great British Bake Off.

20:25Poppy Coburn: And she's been saying that we should ban school-packed lunches because she says parents nowadays, they put far too many unhealthy snacks chocolate bars and crisps and all the rest of it into kids packed lunch he said it's very unhealthy for them kids we better off if they order state school dinners uh to which i would say well fair enough but it depends where you go to school and this is a very good story i've got from here comes from a former colleague of mine i won't identify him but anyway he told me that when he was at school in glasgow um for lunch every day there is only ever a choice of two options.

20:59Poppy Coburn: And I'll tell you what they were. Number one, deep fried pizza. Okay, I'm going to let you do that. I don't know how it works, but continue. Wait till you hear number two, boiled pizza. What is boiled pizza? What does that even look like? That was my question as well, okay. It seems that what this was, was these would all be frozen pizzas. Frozen pizzas that are all sort of shrink-wrapped in plastic. And they would get a big stack of them and put them in a massive pot of boiling water, wait till they sort of heat it up and then slice off the plastic. I mean, I assume they took the plastic off.

21:33Poppy Coburn: I don't know if it would taste any worse. But anyway, and that was your choice. You can have the deep fried pizza. You can have the boiled pizza. Anyway, he told me this and I said, that can't be true. You're very thin. And he said, I wasn't thin then. Anyway, I know some people might question the story and think he was winding me up. But if you do say that, all I can say to you is you've never been to Glasgow. I find that quite plausible, actually. I was just about to complain because I'm post-Jamie Oliver banning turkey Twizzlers. So whenever I was trying to get my school lunch, it was always stuff like a salad bar and a pasta bar.

22:09Suddenly you're not allowed to have pizza anymore. But if I had known that it would be boiled pizza, I think I would have been quite happy tucking into my vegetable pasta for lunch. That sounds quite a lot nicer.

22:19Poppy Coburn: God, if Jamie Oliver had gone to that school, he'd have had a heart attack. It was amazing the children weren't having heart attacks. You have a war crimes tribunal for putting kids through that. It's absolutely appalling. There you go. We've been in here for quite a while, Michael. Something smells really bad. Is it you? Well, thank you very much for asking. I can only assume it's my pheromones. Anyway, I've no doubt the reason you have mentioned this is because there is apparently a hot new trend among the young men of today, the Gen Z men. I think they've probably got it from TikTok, which is where they get everything else.

22:52Poppy Coburn: But anyway, it's called pheromone maxing. And supposedly they believe that they can make themselves more attractive to young women if they sort of, how can I say this, emphasise the scent of their male hormones, which basically involves never washing, never having a shower. Yes, these young men think that they will make themselves irresistibly attractive to women if they don't wash. What's your view of this? There's apparently a science to it. And I bring it up because, as with all Gen Z stories, I do actually have a real-life example. I have a male acquaintance who is one of these people, a Faramad Maxer.

23:31Poppy Coburn: Genuine. So it's not just a load of made-up twaddle I've read on the internet. It's actually true. You know what. That's still up for debate. But I was told this. So he said that I shouldn't wear perfume. Women shouldn't wear perfume. And I was like, why? He said it's an endocrine disruptor. Don't know what that means. Didn't Google it. Don't want to know. apparently it disrupts my natural pheromones which will make it much harder for me to find a mate i don't usually tend to think of myself as a dog so i'm not too worried about finding a mate and settling down um but no there's a real science to it and he's completely obsessed it's part of this new wellness trend that men are getting really really into and he believes that when he gets sweaty from lifting weights in the gym that signals to women that he is an attractive and fertile young man so they should go up to him and go and date him and stay with him it's an interesting theory but can you just clear up two things for us you've got a boyfriend has he got a girlfriend no he hasn't no he hasn't known him to have a girlfriend no i haven't um i don't know if it's maybe because he's not stinky enough right that might be it he just needs to go a couple more years without washing uh the thing is the smell is quite noticeable if you don't wash isn't it particularly if you're going to the gym i would imagine the muscles i would imagine yes Yeah, I mean, people like to complain about the modern world, but I think the best thing that we've invented is deodorant.

24:48Imagine how much it must have stunk back in Victorian England. I really don't like the idea that we're going to have the world falling apart in all the other ways, and also people are going to spell bad again. That really is moving back in time, isn't it, Michael?

24:59Poppy Coburn: Well, it is. I've got one thing to say in defence of these young men, actually. Please. I have a theory about why they're doing this, OK? A few years ago, The Guardian ran the following headline to a news story, OK? and it was, hate body odour? You're more likely to have right-wing views, says Studi. Right, so you know the old stereotype that left-wingers are a bunch of soap-dodging hippies. Turns out it has a basis in scientific fact. But anyway, I reckon what these young men are thinking is, young women nowadays, they're all so left-wing. I mean, present company accepted perhaps. Thank you. I mean, it has been shown, studies have been shown that young women today are more left-wing than ever and young men aren't, basically.

25:37Poppy Coburn: So it's very hard for them to sort of get together with a woman because women are so young women anyway today are so disgusted by any man who's not left wing. So they're thinking, right, if being clean will make them think I'm right wing, if I smell, they'll think I'm left wing and therefore more likely to get together with them. Now you're thinking like a proper man. You know, they'll take one sniff of me and they'll think, Christ, that bloke absolutely honks. so he must have the correct opinions on Gaza and Nigel Farrar so yeah, I think I'll go out for dinner with him although possibly sit next to an open window.

26:14God, heaven forbid you get stuck at a press conference with Zach Polanski. You must absolutely reek if that's the candidacy for it.

26:19Poppy Coburn: True, although I don't think he's looking to pick up girls. That's quite enough for this week, Michael. We'll see you again next Saturday.

26:47We'll be right back.

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