Prince Harry wants a reconciliation - but it won't happen his way

0:02The Telegraph

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1:10He's been following King Charles around for half a century. So what does royal photographer Arthur Edwards think of the crown as it stands today? He shares his tales from royal tours, how he won over Princess Diana and the moment Prince Harry changed after meeting Meghan. It's going to take more than just an apology, I think, for Harry to get over it. He's going to have to really show a lot more repentance, in my view. I mean, we make mistakes in our life and we all do. But, you know, sometimes you've got to do the penance and that's what he's got to do. We are joined by Arthur Edwards, who is the undisputed king of royal photographers and now has a book, Cup of Tea, Arthur.

1:49It's a cup of tea, the royalty, match made in heaven. Thank you so much for coming in. Can you tell us about the title of your book, please? Yes, of course. I think it was 2010, at which time nobody bothered going with Prince Charles on his own anywhere. but I always used to go and the office always used to let me go. And he went to Germany and he was going to a couple of army bases there. And at the first army base, he did this picture with these kids flying a toy airplane. It was a nice picture. And then I got into a helicopter with the Palace Press Office, Manns, and we're flying off to the next airbase.

2:34Prince Charles is on one helicopter, we're on a second helicopter. and I'm sending this picture, get it off my plate, you know, get it in early. And then we land and I turned to Amanda and said, oh, are they already? She said, no, she said, we've had a massive storm and we've had to make an emergency landing. And he said, we've got to go into that house over there. And we landed in this middle of the field and walked into this house and there was all these muddy footprints across this white carpet. I followed the footprints, walked into the room. Prince Charles was sitting there with a teapot in his hand And then he said, would you like a cup of tea, Arthur?

3:08I said, yes, please. And we sat there for an hour and we drank tea and we talked about my holiday and Norway and different things. And the equerry kept coming in and out, saying, you know, the prime minister is now going to meet you at the airport. And the second visit's cancelled. And we just carried on talking for an hour. It was really lovely. And it hasn't always been quite like that. Let me just read what the king, the now king, said about Arthur. a couple of years ago. He said, Arthur, when I first knew him, used to be crawling about in the undergrowth. But it's amazing how life changes.

3:43He's a very good photographer, a jolly good bloke, and a very special person, which we agree with. Yes. How has your relationship changed over the years, Arthur? What were you doing in the undergrowth? I did, yeah. That was, of course, when Charles and Diana went to the Bahamas on holiday. and Diana was, I think, five months pregnant, expecting William. And I got these pictures and there was a bit of a row here about it all. I remember driving in from the airport and putting the radio on and there was editor of another newspaper that didn't have the pictures complaining about intrusion and then there was an MP saying, he brought a question up in the House of Commons about this intrusion.

4:31I felt pretty lousy And when I got to the office, even the office driver, you know, he said, you disgust me. I walked into the office. But the only person who was really happy was the editor. He was thrilled. He lifted up me off the floor and he said, you come back here a hero. Was that Kelvin McKenzie? Kelvin McKenzie. And, of course, he said, I don't know what the fuss is about. Because I missed the first edition. So I run the pictures again the second day in the paper. What's all the fuss about? and it was great. And the thing about that was about a year later, as with the princess, I think it was in Australia or some remote place, and we were at one of these press briefings and she said, how much money did you make out of the Bahama Mama pictures?

5:17I said, well, ma 'am, I've got nothing. I said, just the question of my expenses of those I was covering a court case in Bradford and she said, pass me the Kleenex. So maybe she wasn't that bothered. She wasn't that bothered. No, she wasn't the mother at all. But it was, you know, in the bushes. And, of course, this all came, this quote came from when he asked me to arrange his 70th birthday party. I asked him on a plane coming back from Canada what he wanted to do for his birthday. And he said, what I like is a party for people all 70, the same age as me. so I ignored that and then about a month before his birthday he said a message came the prince wants to know what are you doing about this party oh my goodness so anyway we did a come on and in the paper saying anybody that's a carer a care worker or mules on wheels 70 this year likes to come and have tea with the prince and Duchess of course lovely Camilla um apply well we had about a thousand entries and we picked 70 and their spouses and they came and i um i was the host so i did a welcoming speech of which i said of course i congratulated him on his birthday and um i said well welcome and to your birthday party you know it's all there's some readers here and I said but you know I remember very clearly my first overseas visit you when we went to Yugoslavia and you met President Tito and President Tito asked you if you'd like a cigarette and you said no thanks I came up when I was 12 I said that made me laugh there then it still makes me laugh now and of course he laughed and uh and then I went on to say well of course it always It wasn't always like this.

7:18There were days when we didn't quite get on. And we didn't. I mean, we had some really serious, I suppose, rows. I mean, he's screaming at me. About what, though, Arthur? Because I think once you shouted... I was on his land. And you shouted at him once, I think. At least I've got a job. Tell us about that. Well, he said to me, I was on a public footpath down at Highgrove. and he came up on his horse and uh what are you doing on my land i said not on your land i'm on a public footpath he said well that's for walking on not for taking pictures and i'd been on the paper about 18 months i said well i've got you know i'm just doing my job he says some job i said well he said i've got a job which he took as an insult i didn't mean as an insult i wish i thought about that before i said it but he screamed off he hit the hole so hard he took off screaming and steam coming out of his ears.

8:13And I took off steam. I got out there pretty quick as well. And one of the policemen the following Wednesday said to me, whatever happened? I said, well, he came in. He said, we were all sitting around the table in the kitchen drinking coffee. He hit the whip on the table. He said, the coffee cups went flying. He said, you're supposed to be guarding me. And Arthur Edwards is on my front lawn. So, you know, that was a bad start. And then, of course, there was another one up at Sandring, and when he screamed, Mr. Edwards. And I said, well, Mr. Windsor. And he sort of said, well, let's like, so I said, look, I'm not chasing your wife around Harrods or Harvey Nicks.

8:52I said, I'll be here photographing an MP, supposed to be doing his job in the House of Commons, and he's shooting with you. He calmed down. We had a long chat about it. And that was the second round. And the third one, he just got a bit steamed. up at a polo match one day when we was all photographing Diana and not him. Yeah, well, that will do it. But since then. And then I changed because, you know, I worked for a really, I suppose, a very demanding editor, you could say, about Kelvin. He had no regard for the royal family. In fact, when the Queen asked all the editors to go to the palace, he made an excuse not to go.

9:35I don't think he wanted to be compromised.

9:39But I changed, and I changed because I saw the great work he was doing. I've been to every rainforest in the world with him. I've been to the Brazilian rainforest three times with him, the Amazon rainforest three times. So I know how much he cares, and I watched him plead with these presidents and kings and prime ministers to stop ripping up this precious resource, and I realised that he was a mentor. And then one day he asked me to go down to Clarence's house and they showed me all the plans he had and the proposals he was making. And I realized this was a serious thing with him. And so I started doing nice pictures of him.

10:19If he pulled a face, I didn't send that picture anymore. Of course, if he fell off his polo pony, I'd need you to send that. Well, obviously. Obviously, because that's a new story. And, of course, the girlfriends, you know, obviously then the editor, when I first joined the Sun, was Larry Lamb, who said, I want you to find out who the prince is going to get married to. Because he said 30 was a good time to get married. He made this speech. And he was 28 and had to come out of the Navy. So I just was, like, driven. I just go to, I mean, three polo matches a week I used to go to. I hate the game.

10:55It's so boring, Arthur, isn't it? Yeah, it's dreadful. I mean, it's, and slowly the different girlfriends turned up. And it was only when I went to a, believe it or not, a polo match on a Saturday, because we never had no paper on a Sunday, because it was a little place down in West Sussex. And I was told he's here with a girl called Lady Diana Spencer. I said, what's she look like? He said, I didn't see him arrive, but she's definitely here watching him. And I walked around, not having a clue who to look for, and I saw this very pretty girl and she had a necklace on with a D on it. I thought, are you Lady Diana Spencer?

11:30She said, yes. I said, may I take a picture of you? And she said, okay. And she posed that for me and did the picture. I rang the office and said, can you tell me a bit about Lady Diana Spencer? Come back, she said, she's the youngest daughter of Earl Spencer, a former equerry to the Queen. Was her young? He said, hang on, just had her 19th birthday. And so about five or six weeks later, I'm driving up to the Braemar Games, and I see Prince Charles fishing, and next to him is Diana. I got out of the car, grabbed the cameras, rushed across, and I got the pictures of her running through the woods.

12:12And him, you know, very angry, throwing the fishing rod down, storming off. And I figured, you know, he was hiding her, you know, he was protecting her. I thought myself and I rang Harry Arnold who was then the Sun reporter who was having a I think we're drinking champagne at a cricket match somewhere. Vintage Sun reporter behavior can I just say? I said Harry this is it and we splashed on it on the Monday using the picture that I shot at the polo match five weeks earlier with the caption Lady Diana Spencer all the qualities to be Queen and then inside him fishing and her running through the trees.

12:51And that was it. And then, of course, that was, I think, in the September and then in the February, they got engaged. I remember Harry and I sending a telegram. You remember what a telegram was? Vaguely. In then days. And we said, congratulations, Your Royal Highness, on your engagement to lady, Diana Spencer. Hope you'll both be very happy. And the following day, we got a telegram back from him saying, thank you for your kind wishes. Hope you won't be made redundant. That's good. But isn't it nuts to think now in this 24-hour news cycle that you could have sat on that picture for five weeks and waited for the right moment to come?

13:33Did you have any sense at all back then that this woman had extraordinary star quality or was she just another girl? I thought she was just another girl, but the fact is that she grew up at Sandringham, a park house. So she knew the family very well. She'd been to Park House about six months earlier. I know she'd been to Sandringham six months earlier. And I saw them leaving with Amanda Natchable, who was then, I thought, the favourite to be the next Princess of Wales. so when i come i mean the time i turn around they'd rush back into the house and i remember going to the station kingsley station and the and the station master saying oh they've gone they've gone they're on they've gone to london they said you know he said there's a photographer up here arthur edwards he's got a very big lens but he's missed them so i said was he i said what time is to try and get to London said I'll get 415 so I rang the office and they got a photographer Liverpool Street and he got a picture but he was photographing Amanda Natchable but actually he did one of Diana and it's in the book that picture and he you know it was it was just strange you know that that he was this girl and and and then I went to the nursery and I asked and this is another thing this is another story that that um i never followed the car i never followed the car from the nursery i did it i knew from the from where she lived in colhern court i went to three or four nurseries and on the third or fourth one it was the one in pimlico and i said to the lady when she answered there's lady diana spencer work here she said yes i said would you ask if you come and do a picture for me and she came out she said yes but she's going to bring two of the children and she came out with the children.

15:30I took her to a little park next to it. There was a tree. By which time all the paparazzi were sitting in their cars waiting for her to leave, jumped out their cars. But by this time I got in a position I wanted and then halfway through taking the picture, the sun came out and we saw those wonderful legs. This is the famous shot, in case anyone doesn't know, of her and she's wearing kind of chiffon skirt and the light just catches her. And that's the moment actually where a star is born in a way Hannah, that particular photograph but carry on after. Anyway, so I went back to the office and of course they splashed on it, it was a picture splash which is, and it was, he's in love again and you know this is Charlie's girl, it's Hedlard Charlie's girl.

16:16And then of course we went back in the afternoon because Harry Arnold wasn't there. Harry didn't work that early. Those were the days. He didn't start till 10. Fair enough. So I said, let's go down there in the afternoon. And she came out and had a chat to Harry. And Harry's a brilliant reporter. I miss him terribly. He said to her, he was asking her, he said, about your romance with Prince Charles. And she said, you know, I can't talk about that. And Harry asked a very clever question. He said, but did you tell your mother about it? She said, oh, yes.

17:00And, of course, it was on. And it was just a question of not if but when. And all that summer was fantastic. I remember her crying, breaking down at one of the polo matches from all the attention and him sort of being so caring. and the wedding, of course, you know, which was a fantastic day. Picked the wrong pass. Went to St Paul's rather than Buckingham Palace. I've got a nice picture at St Paul's, but I didn't get the kiss picture at the palace. And ever since, any occasion, I go to the palace. Yeah, always go to the, go get the balcony shot, Arthur. That's right. You know this. I didn't know it then.

17:45No, well, it's a learning curve. Because I've never kissed before. It's a learning curve. It was. You learn by your mistakes. But I did get a nice picture. I got a lovely picture of the train coming down the steps and a great sub put a great headline on it, a train now standing at St Paul's. Oh, that's good. It was clever, yeah. Shall we move on to more modern royals? Yeah, I was just going to ask you, all this stuff is very different era, royal reporting and royal photography. There's an amazing line in here where you need to get somewhere and you said the flights are booked, so I just chartered a Learjet.

18:15Yes. you actually went on to have an amazing relationship with Diana what was the turning point was it the bins when you tried to rescue her from being angered she was being angered by some French paparazzi they were putting these beer cans these beer cakes trying to block her car in and she started crying I said don't let them see you cry that's what they want you to do no we got on pretty well because she would stop and have a chat and And I kind of liked her straight away. And, you know, she was pretty shy as well. She used to blush. When you see William, they're doing the same now. When I look at William, I know who his mother is because he does that same thing.

18:59He blushes a wee bit. And she was a young girl. You know, she was 19. I mean, it was incredible that she took on that role. And everybody says, not everybody, lots of people say never truly loved her, But I remember doing that first tour to Australia. I mean, we were away five, nearly six weeks to Australia and New Zealand. And they were so loved up. I can't tell you. They just couldn't kick their hands off each other. You know, it was just tremendous. And it was William with them. It was a sensational trip. You know, every day it published that story. Can you imagine for five weeks publishing?

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21:23What was it like when the princes came on the scene and you had to handle the photographing of children? Because obviously we know how Prince Harry now sees it. I mean, he makes out as if photographers made his childhood a misery. I'm not sure whether that story is actually told in some of the photography of him on log fumes and all the rest of it. Well, the thing is about then, you've got to remember it was the 80s. You've got to remember that there was no, none of these controls. We know it is a code of conduct then. Anything went and you had to be there. And you, when the children started their school, you were there when they started school.

22:03when they had the school play, you were there for the school play. When you, I mean, and I must say, I mean, one of the policemen told me, Harry, William used to say, I hate tolographers, I hate tolographers. I remember Harry poking his tongue out at the car window. I mean, he wasn't. So Harry kind of played to the cameras more than his brother. Harry was, in fact, you know, I've got to tell you this, Harry was an absolute star as some readers were concerned because he was so full of fun, you know, when you went on a tour with him. I'm sure you both agree on this. He did everything to help you.

22:38He'd give you great pictures. You asked him to do something. I remember we went to Jamaica. I mean, it was sensational. He was running with Usain Bolt. He was cheating. He was hugging the prime minister. He was dancing with his blue suede shoes with the girls, Bob Marley's. I was on that tour. It was a great tour. Fabulous tour. Then we went on to Brazil and he was playing with the kids on the beach and fighting them. We went up to the Charles the Redeemer statue, She didn't be at the top of that mountain. But then what happened, Arthur? Then he met her, Megan, and it all changed. It changed instantly from him being a great person to work with to from one you didn't want to work with.

23:15And I didn't want to work with him. I did that first year with Megan and Harry, and I realised she was kind of acting all the time. And then when it all sort of started to become difficult, I didn't go. I wouldn't go on the trips. Paul, my son, went to Australia and South Africa. I just didn't want to know. He just cut us all dead. Once he met her, he didn't want to know. It was though we were the sort of evil monsters where before we'd all go to the pub. You remember after the trips? We'd all go to the pub. Well, we had that drinking session at Sandals Resort. I don't know. I'm not sure quite what happened after.

23:56I didn't remember kissing an Australian news anchor on the lips. But anyway, that's enough. that's a tale for another day after. I remember that so well that evening. Yeah, because of course, yeah. Wow. So, okay, so that made things difficult. I mean, where are you with him now? Because obviously you've got this huge admiration for the king. He's had a very difficult time since Megxit. We've now had Prince Harry come out this week saying, well, I'd like to reconcile. I can't understand why nobody wants to get back together. And it's like, well, it's probably because. Read the book. Read your book, Harry.

24:29Yeah. A book he didn't even check. He didn't even read the galleys he couldn't have done because in there, he says in his book, he was at Eton when the Queen Mother died. He was at Clostas because it was Easter Saturday when she died. And they were there. They were going to go to church the next Easter Sunday. So I was driving back from, I went to Mass down in one of the villages on a Saturday evening. I'm driving back up the thing and I hear the news. And of course, the following morning, we just photographed them leaving. Oh, really? I'd like a fact checker on that because he says that I was wrong about everything all the time.

25:03And it was only just some of the time or perhaps never. 50-50. Well, I'm not sure. But Hannah, what do you think? Are you pleased to see him back, Arthur? Yes and no. Okay. Yes, because I think the royal family needs someone like Harry. They need the spare. They need someone. I mean, he was very good at the job when he was without her. I mean, with her now, he's always holding her hand and looking at her. And it makes me feel sick the way he goes on about it. But when he was on his own, he was a star. I mean, I can remember great trips, you know, especially with kids. When he was with kids, he'd become a kid.

25:42You know, I remember going to this children's hospital in Barbados. I was there too, that profoundly disabled girl. He was so amazing with her. He was just like fantastic. He wouldn't stop until he got this little girl to smile. Yeah, he wanted her. She loved the song. umbrella by Rihanna I remember because and he was extraordinary and then we all interviewed him do remember we went onto the roof and he started giving us some great quotes about whenever I'm on these jobs I just think of my mum and I want to continue her legacy and he's like I'm at my happiest when I do these jobs and it was so genuine and I thought goodness me I was so impressed with him that that trip well I went to I went to uh the Souther with him twice for this said to Bali.

26:24And I remember the second time when he took his brother and we went to this night school, which he created. And these kids used to sometimes put the herds down and walk some up to two hours of this night school. And I remember afterwards we went into a little kitchen and he made me a cup of tea. And we're sitting there and I said, how important is this year? He said, it's the most important thing I've ever done. And he was passionate about it. And that's the Harry that I'm missing. I know that's still there. But you can't go and accuse the royals of being racist one minute. You can't say bad things about his brother and his sister-in-law and the Queen.

27:08And you can't just say, well, that's all right, but I made a lot of money out of that. But now I just want reconciliation. And I just don't think it's going to happen like that. And I think when they had that meeting, the both families down at Highgrove about maybe six or eight weeks ago now, when nothing came out of that, we don't know what went on with that. No conversation. When they took Archie and Lillibut to see him. When they took the children. I think, I don't know, but I think that the king laid the rules down then. This is what you can do and this is what you can't do. and I think this interview he's given this week, Harry, when he said, you know, I want something, if you're not interested, well, it's going to take more than just an apology, I think, for Harry to get over it.

27:55He's going to have to really show a lot more repentance, in my view. I mean, we make mistakes in our life, and we all do, but, you know, sometimes you've got to do the penance, and that's what he's got to do, and until that, I think eventually he will come back working for the Royal Family because he's a great asset. I mean, we know that, don't we? He was a fantastic person. He was tremendous. I really did like him. I remember when we were on that Jamaica trip talking to one of the parliamentarians there, and she said they wanted to send us Princess Anne. We sent a delegation to London to say we weren't Harry.

28:36We weren't a young person. Well, he was the king of the Caribbean at the time. He was, yeah. And he was the great Republican slayer at that point. I know that obviously they went on to decide to ditch us, but at the same time, back at that moment, there was a very Republican female prime minister. There was, yeah. And he absolutely charmed the socks off her. And when he hugged her, I said, why do you hug her, Harry? He said, well, my father said she likes a hug, so I thought I'd get him first. Arthur, what's your analysis of William and Kate at this stage in all this? I mean, obviously you've photographed them a lot, particularly the new princess of Wales?

29:10I think she's absolute superstar. I think she, I think that, I mean, when you work with her, she's so natural. She's just, I did a job recently down in Sussex and with some elderly people at sort of elderly lunch, old people's lunch. I felt like I should go there myself and have something to eat. Anyway, it was, and she was fun. she was laughing she was it was tremendous stuff it was it was the easiest thing you'd ever have to do in your life just be there and you get great pictures and and of course she is she's she's the she's the star of the royal family now i mean she is the superstar as as was diana and and she doesn't i don't think she likes that i mean you know she she she's got this role and she's doing it best but at the same time she's a mother of three children and I think she spends a lot of time with them which is I think she should do and and doesn't do an awful lot of work I mean why should she she's got the children and but she's the star but the person the reason I carry on working the reason why is because of the king because I think he is an amazing man he's living with cancer.

30:28He's determined not to, his legacy not to be that of a sick man. He's piling more and more work on himself. And he's brilliant. And as I said in the book, you know, people, when he made that speech in Washington to the Congress, and it was a magnificent speech, and people say, what a great man he is. What a great man he is. But I've known he's been a great man for a long, long while. I've been to some of the places in the world where only I know what he did for these people. I remember once coming out, we came out of a youth club in Burnley, a city in the north of England. And it was pretty run down, the booth club.

31:09And he said, what can we do? What can a son could do to help this youth club? I said, what have you got in mind? He said, well, he said, what about if I have a reception for pastry girls? I said, you serious? He said, yeah. He said, well, we said, I have them for the Archers. He said, I have them for Coronation Street. You know, Pace Free Girls. So I completely ignored it. Anyway, a month later, I get a call. What are you doing about the Pace Free Girls thing? Unfortunately, Michael Peet, his secretary was with him at the time. I said, you heard that, Michael, didn't you? He said, yeah, right.

31:40So I said, right. Michael Peet's having a heart attack at this stage. So I rang the editor. I spoke to the editor. And Michael Peet said, get Dominic to ring me. And Moe was the editor. And we set a plan in action and with breakthrough that just the breast cancer charity. And we organized a big event at the, I think, the National History Museum. And I mean, pastry girls turned up fully dressed, I might add. And he didn't come. And I said to him, why didn't you come? And he said, they talked me out of it. Oh, those men in grey seats again. That's right. So, you know, but that's just, but he wanted to do this for, to raise money for this youth club, you know.

32:28And in fact, we raised a lot of money for the breast cancer charity. I think we, I'm not sure if we sent money to the youth club, but that's what he's like. He's always thinking, another time we were in Nepal and we would have been to Kathmandu, we'd been to this sanctuary where the women that are trafficked into the brothels of India, when they come back, the families reject them. And this lady, a centre firm, it was just a few tin huts. What can the Sun readers do to help her? What have you got in mind? He said, well, what about if we sell a limited edition of my painting of Annapurna or one of the Himalayan mountains?

33:11He said 250 for 250 pounds each. I said, great, let's do it. Anyway, we did. We could have sold 1 ,000. Just everybody wanted one. And we bought a big, huge piece of land for this woman. And some industrialists, German industrialists, put a building up. But I went out there for the opening. I mean, it was an amazing place. And that was all down to him. so what can we do for this woman? And I'm not going to tell you another story about it. And we went to Krakow in Poland and went to the Jewish quarter there. And he was sitting there talking to them and they said, well, the problem is, sir, we've got nowhere to teach our children.

33:59And he came back to England. He rung, well, he didn't ring, someone rung the World Council of Jewish Relief to say, come and have lunch with him. and explained the problem to this, to the Jews in Krakow. And they organized two dinners. He went to both of those dinners and they raised four million pounds and they built a center. And I went out there when he opened it and it was fantastic to see the happiness. And it's called the Prince of Wales Center, very small outside, but, you know, that's him. And he did that and he just does that all the time. helps people helps people and he uses he's used me twice three times organises his party as well I love that from the East End to the photography darkroom to the Royal Party Planner exactly that this is an absolute treasure trove of your stories Arthur we loved it so much thank you for joining us thank you very much on the Royal Tea with a cup of tea Arthur at some point you might have to retire can I just say that to you What if I do?

35:06You know, I have great memories. Indeed so. Especially working with you two ladies. Thank you very much. We'll be back on Monday, 5pm.

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