Reform’s ‘vigilante mum’ on winning lawless London, infidelity and banning the burka

0:02The Telegraph

0:10She's the vigilante mum that's vowed to take on Sadiq Khan in the capital. We are joined by Reform's candidate for London Mayor, Leila Cunningham. Come 2028, criminals should be on notice. There'll be a new sheriff in town. Welcome to The Daily Tea with me, Tim Stanley. And me, Camilla Tomini.

0:40Leila Cunningham joins us in the Daily Tea studio, just unveiled as Reform's candidate to be the next London Mayor. You're going to be taking on Sadiq Khan in 2028. Leila, before we begin, we have a little daily tea. I say test. It isn't really a test. It's a ritual. It's a little ritual. First of all, are you a tea drinker? Would you like a cup of tea? Hourly. Oh, good. Hourly. Yeah. What's your tea? How many cups of tea do you have in a day normally? Four or five with a rich tea biscuit. Love that. Very good. All right, I'm going to be mother. You're going to pour. And you're going to ask the question.

1:11OK. If you could have tea with anyone in history, who would it be? Alive or dead, you think? Alive or dead. Probably. Wouldn't mind having tea with Michael Jordan. OK. We've not had that before. Milk? Yes, please. I mean, I'd love to have tea with Margaret Thatcher, right? Yeah, but everyone says that. Everyone says that. Everyone says that. But, you know, I mean, I grew up obsessed with Michael Jordan. I had wall-to-wall posters. it was like a shrine to him. Right, because you were a basketball player or still are a basketball player. The thing is with basketball, if you're not ready to get injured, you're not a good player.

1:43Right. So it's not fun. And as you get older, you just can't face the injury and you do get injured. Why basketball and not netball? Netball's not really a sport. Oh. They just stand and throw. Don't tell the netball. It's like for Victorian women. Well, it's a lot faster now. But sorry, how did you get into basketball? Was it a school sport? Yeah, it was a school. So we were one of the few schools in London to play it. I didn't tee you. God, I'm not a very good mother, am I? I just served one of the children. Do you want any? I've got a whole cup here. Thank you. Sorry, carry on, Leila. No, and I was five foot 11, at the age of 11.

2:19Yeah. And I had the most awesome coach ever at school. He was actually like a second father to me. And yeah, and he got us into it. And I became obsessed. I mean, rain or shine, morning, evening, and he would travel around the country with us. We were so good, we represented South East England. Wow. Just our school. I went to the Centre of Excellence of Basketball in Europe. No, no, it was a ride, and then I went to California to play. Were you offensive or defensive? It's not like that. It's positions you're in. So I was tall, so I was centre. Yes. Which means blocking. Yeah. But, yeah, it's a great sport.

2:57And was this with girls only, or was it mixed? Girls only, yeah. We want to get into more of your personal life a bit later, if you don't mind, because we've seen you a lot on broadcast and in the media and we know where your politics lies and you're very punchy often in your political rhetoric, but we don't know much about you as a mum. And this moniker that you've adopted, vigilante mum, it's especially intrigued him. But it was given to you. It was given to me by London News. And how did you come to be dubbed vigilante mum? Well, as I said yesterday in the speech, you know, my kids were targeted on many days, literally on this gang of like maybe 15 boys on and off.

3:42And they'd be, you know, balaclavas or COVID masks. And they'd target my kids. And the police would turn up for, you know, one day on a bike to patrol. And obviously they wouldn't come on that day. And when they'd leave, there'd be no one there. And the police are like, listen, we don't have enough resources. Another time, my son was actually mugged under the house. and I pursued the mugger and I trapped him almost in the basement of McDonald's. I called the police. Did you have a baby strapped to you at this point? When I was doing the investigation, I did. I would follow them. They had COVID masks, but they would wear very distinctive shoes.

4:13I knew which estate they lived in. I spoke to the shops that were selling the phones. And I said, I'm watching you. So someone mugged your son outside your house? Many of my children. Right. In my area. Right. But on one occasion, you followed the mugger. Yes, to the local McDonald's, which to be fair is not far. Right. And the police said there's not enough, this is another time, there's not enough resources. Someone's been stabbed near Edgware Road. And I said, surely you have enough resources for two incidents. And she literally said, would you like to speak to the mother of the boy who's just been stabbed and explain why we have to divert resources?

4:51And I said, listen, I've got him here. And, you know, it's a lot more scary when it's near you. So, sorry, did you have the mugger in your hand? No, no, no, no, no, no. He ran away. Right. And they tend to hide in this, like, basement of McDonald's. I didn't want to go in there. And this is all in the Edgware Road area in London? No, no, this is all, like, Queensway. OK. Yeah. Right. All right. And the police person, on another occasion, said to you, would you actually like to speak to someone, to the mother of someone who's been stabbed? Yes, on the 999 call. Right. But that's a... You were describing a crime that was happening at the time that they could have investigated.

5:23Yes, but they were also dealing with another stabbing. Right. OK. OK. That's extraordinary. But it's also just deeply insensitive to say that to a member of the public. Deeply insensitive. Yeah. But the thing is, to be fair, as a criminal prosecutor, I've worked with the police and I work very closely with my safer neighbourhood team. It's not really their fault. You know, they're great people. And I was one of the few prosecutors to go to a police dojo, which is the most incredible thing. I almost think it should be like a public exercise class. And it's this massive room where they train police officers to face the most serious confrontations, physical confrontations.

5:54And so because prosecutors tend to prosecute excessive force by police, they wanted us to see how sometimes you have to use force that seems to be excessive, but in the moment it's not. And it was so interesting because, you know, they'd be like, try and arrest him, right? So you'd arrest him, he'd be fighting off, you know, this mock situation. And they'd be like, how many times do you think you pushed him down? And I'd be like, I don't know, three or four. They'd be like, you pushed him down 20 times. Someone might think that's excessive force, but in the moment you do what it takes to protect yourself.

6:25And they made the very good point that when there's more of them, you know, sometimes you say, why do you need five coppers to arrest that person? They're like, when there's more of us, we need to use less force because there's less danger for us. But of course there's not that many on patrol. So it was very interesting. And I just, I feel that's a great eye opener. They haven't done it again for any other prosecutors, but I think for the public to see that, to appreciate what the police go through to keep us safe is important. You seem to suggest at your launch that the main issue is not recruitment, correct me if I'm wrong, but priorities.

6:57Is that the way you see it? So there is a recruitment issue. Right. But we do have 32 ,000 officers in the Met. I don't know how they're deployed. I don't seem to see them on the streets. I speak to people, they don't seem to see police on the streets. You know, when I go shopping with my kids in Oxford Street, packed with tourists, number one hotspot for phone thefts, not one police officer. So I feel there is a priorities issue. You know, when you have the mayor who's got specialist forces dealing with hate crime, I want specialist forces dealing with actual crime. We do prosecute a lot of words in this country, too much.

7:32You reminded me a little bit of Rudy Giuliani, the former mayor of New York, when he spoke about zero tolerance at the launch. It seems to Tim and I that law and order is going to form the key plank of your offering to London. I mean, is that accurate? not just with your mum of seven hat on, but also former prosecutor. And as you say, somebody who has physically tried to stop the crime from taking place. Do you think that is the most important concern for Londoners right now? I do. I genuinely do. And more importantly, there are a lot of other things. You know, housing is very expensive. Social housing is not being prioritised for British nationals.

8:11There are other issues, but within the mayor's remits, crime and obviously TfL and you, Les, I think those are the three big ones. And right now, we're being let down by crime. Because you said in the press conference yesterday, and Tim and I subsequently discussed this, that you feel like the capital is broken. And it does echo Nigel Farage's rhetoric generally around Britain and the fact that nothing works anymore and that reform is needed to quote your own party. Of course. When you grew up in the 80s, where did you grow up? Your Egyptian parents emigrated here in the 1960s. Where were you brought up?

8:45Kilburn. In Kilburn. OK. To be fair to Kilburn, there was a lot of IRA then. Yes. I was going to say. Yeah, I think it was County Kilburn in those days. Kilburn, Kensarais, that's where I'd hang out. Listen, I'm not saying London was this utopia of safety. But there were police on the streets. There was a police station I could run to. And I ran to many police stations. I mean, I remember growing up. and these issues were always here, but they were taken care of. I knew I could call the police. The police would come immediately. They would take care of it. There was backup. Yes, because you spoke about being on the tube aged 10 and that you would travel from places as far and wide as Brixton to Crystal Palace.

9:24Is that with your basketball hat on in general? Yeah. Equivalently now, I mean, take us through. You've got seven children. What's the age range? What genders are they? Where do they start and finish? Because you must have started having children pretty young. Yeah, so I've got two stepkids, but I raise them from very young. And they don't really see their mum, so I'm their mum. But in terms of giving birth, I have a four-year-old who I had with my second husband. Yes. And it goes all the way up to 20. So the others are all teenagers. So you're now 48. God help me. How old were you when you had your first baby?

9:5928. And did you always intend to have a lot of children? To be honest, I love kids. Yeah, but five biological children with the career you've had is pretty formidable. Yeah, I mean, I'm one of five. Yeah. I mean, I didn't work when they were little. Right. No, I didn't, you know, I was a real, I didn't want to be apart from them. I'm the kind of mum that takes my kids to a dinner party. If my kids couldn't come, I wouldn't go. I just, I took them everywhere. If I'd go to, I remember we'd go to New York or if we'd go visit a city and I'd want to go to a yoga class, I'd take them with me and they'd either do yoga or sit in the corner.

10:37I really wanted to be there for them. But I reckon you're a pretty strict parent, right? If they came to a dinner party, they would behave. Yeah, they would definitely. I'm very strict on politeness, although I don't think they're that polite to me. They never are. No. You know, I get phone calls from parents, oh, you know, your kids are wonderful, they're so polite. And I'm like, really? Yeah, but that's the best test. If they're polite with strangers but horrible to you in the house, you'd prefer it that way round. But what are the genders here? Yes, you've got sons and daughters. Yeah, I've got three daughters and four boys.

11:05And do you worry about the boys or the girls? I do worry about the boys a lot. And I was speaking to a sergeant in the Met and we were discussing teenagers two years ago and he said I'd worry more about the boys because anything kicks off. Not only that, but sometimes I speak to people from the Met who you arrest someone with a knife, a youth, but when you take them to the police station, you need to have a specialist youth officer and they're not there. So he goes, in the end, you end up being an Uber service just driving him home. You know, and I think there needs to be a much tougher approach to possession of a knife on a youth.

11:40Right now, you know, if you're under 18, you don't really get the full force of the law. Number one, it teaches, in my opinion, youth, that you can get away with it. Going into adulthood, there are no really repercussions. And it puts them, it subjects them to abuse because gang members know that if you're 16, 17, you're not going to go to prison, you know, you'll be released. they barely go to prison unless it's really murder or something very serious. Yeah. You said at the launch that you worry if one of your children doesn't answer the phone. Oh, yeah. I sympathise with that because my mum worries if I don't answer the phone.

12:13My mum does too. I worry too. Is London becoming a place where people don't want to raise their kids? I speak to so many parents who are moving out. You know, I live at, I don't know if you know Royal Oak. It's a tube station on a bridge and it's quite secure. And I've spoken to like three families that are moving out because they're 17-year-old kids, come back from school and they're just targeted. And they're like, you know, it's not worth it anymore. And it wasn't like that when I was growing up. And people are saying, oh, I'm talking London down. I think the Guardian wrote an article that I said, people pity us when we live in London.

12:41But I do speak to people, they're like, oh God, you live in London, I moved out. You know, that's what I meant. People are like, you know, I used to live in London, but I feel that, you know, and people might say I'm scaremonging, but so many other people I speak to feel like that. I'm really interested in this phenomenon of first or second generation immigrants becoming powerful conservative leaders. Think of Zia, think of Kemi. And sometimes that's because the countries where their families came from were a basket case and they can see the strengths of British culture and they're disappointed that the British don't value them.

13:14Does that help explain why your family left Egypt? It explains to my family left Egypt just because it was communist and he was going after everyone. And my mum's always loved Britain. She says Egypt was the best when Britain was there and it was there just before NASA. You know, it was a protectorate. She said it was the best time. They built the best. She said it was civilized. So she's always had a soft spot. And I didn't really experience Egypt in that sense because I was born and raised here. What makes me a conservative, I don't even think it's conservative. I honestly do feel that it's just common sense.

13:46And I know it sounds really basic to say that, but who doesn't want police on the streets? I mean, who doesn't want British people to be prioritized in their own home, in their own country? Who doesn't want less regulation so businesses can flourish and innovation can flourish? And who wants to pay half their salary to the government? But one might answer those are conservative questions. They're questions that conservatives tend to ask. Yeah, I guess. You know, I wonder those that don't ask the question, what do they want? What exactly, what kind of world do they want to live in? Yeah, yeah. Why did you first get engaged in politics?

14:22It was just a natural attraction. So you're working as a prosecutor? As I said, my mum was always political. My mum was always political, so we always watched the news. She loved Thatcher. Did you like Thatcher? Yeah, I grew up, yeah, I loved Thatcher. You know, I grew up watching the news with her, spitting image. It was like the highlight of our day, the news at 10. It was always on. My mum didn't watch shows. She wasn't like a frivolous person. Not frivolous, but, you know, she didn't waste time. Sure. So you get into conservative politics, but something changes. Tell me something, because I've always been curious about this.

14:54You're put forward or you're mooted to be the potential Tory candidate for Rotherham. And then at last minute, you're suddenly out of the race. And then, OK, a defection swiftly follows and you go to reform. But just take us on the inside of that story. What happened? So nominations for candidates was closing that Friday afternoon. I get a call Wednesday night from CCHQ saying, do you want to stand for Rotherham? I'm like, not so sure. It's really far and you can't win it. And I said, listen, I always said that I would quit the CPS if I got a winnable seat, obviously, because I'd be switching job for job.

15:27We should explain you were a crown prosecutor. I was a crown prosecutor at the time, but I wasn't going to ditch it for a seat I couldn't win. What's the point? And so I said, he said, you know, we really need you to stand for them. So I said, listen, let me just speak to my boss and see if because it's a paper candidate. I know I'm not going to win if it will fly. They always knew I was a conservative candidate at the CPS, a councillor. Yeah. So I call my boss. That was Wednesday night. I call him Thursday and he says, I'm at a conference. I'll let you know Monday. I go, no, no, no. I need to know Friday.

15:58And literally he goes, what the hell are these conservatives doing? I mean, I can't give you an answer then. Or I have to look at the rules and regulations. And he came back to me Friday at 12. And I got the email saying, you know, you cannot go on the ballot. You will have to resign. So then I called the Conservatives and I said, I'm really, and they told me, they gave me 24 hours. And I said, I'm sorry, I'm not going to do it to lose my job. And then this whole rumour, because so many people, I don't know, being deselected, whatever, but it was just simply that. And did you approach reform or did reform approach you?

16:29I went to a few events and I met Nigel. Yeah. What's your analysis of Nigel Farage? I just think he's a great guy, you know. He's just so, you know, he's so down to earth. He's got no airs and graces, unlike other people in the Conservative Party. He's willing to listen. He's willing to he really does listen. When you talk to people in the high echelons of the Conservative Party, you know, they know best. You know, that's what you got. And I feel that's why they're slow to realise why they're losing the nation. It's we will continue as we are. He's not like that. And he really is a free thinker.

17:02And that free thinking is very appealing to me. You know, he's lovely in person. I'm a strong Brexiteer. despite my whole family not being. And I've always admired him. I've always admired the way he stood up in the European Parliament. Didn't give a damn. Sorry, I'm not allowed to say that. You can say that. We've said worse. Yeah, and just said it how it is and didn't care. You know, he didn't suck up to anyone. I like that, you know, and I feel that's what this country needs. It needs someone who's not bowing down to the political establishment. And the best compliment I got was Unherd just wrote a piece about me.

17:37and they covered a policy exchange I did with Chris Philp and Jonathan Hinder. And in it, he says, Philp and Jonathan were coming to expect a gentle political discussion, but Leila came for a brawl. It's totally obvious that she's not willing to, you know, bow down to the political establishment or something like that. I really like the wording. That's how I feel. You like being described as a brawler. No, it wasn't the brawler that I liked. But it was she's totally uninterested in forming any consensus with the Britain's governing class. Because I do feel the governing class has let the people down.

18:12And when I was campaigning for the Conservatives for the general election, all I heard, nothing to do about cost of living or fuel. It was all they're in it for themselves. But that's what I heard. And that's what I felt being in it. You know, I felt they'd stop serving the people. And honestly, I say this with all my heart. They started they were serving the party. No one is in reform because it's some hundred-year-old prestigious conservative party or, you know, it's not a badge of honour. No one quit their job or switched because of that. You know, it's a start-up. Everyone generally in there is there because they just really want to do something good for the country.

18:48And I know that might sound corny or like a political tagline, but it's true. If you were elected, and let's imagine Nigel were elected too, you'd be the second most important person in the country because that London mayor is like the big one in local government. And when you've been introduced to the public, some of the things they've learnt about you has really defied expectations of reformers. She was a basketball champion. Wow. She has seven kids. Wow. Well, one detail is you're Muslim. Yeah. Trust me, I've had that on X the past 24 hours. Yeah, we have. I'm an Islamist. We've seen this. You have.

19:22And we want to get into why and what your response is to it. First of all, I think in this country, we have an idea in our head of what being a Muslim is like. So what is your personal experience of being a Muslim? Religion for me is a spiritual guidance. You know, for instance, in Islam, it says you have to be charitable. One of the biggest sins is gossiping about someone. For me, it was always like there's a God watch. It almost removes. It's not all about me. So there's a God watching me. And if I was like doing something bad or smoking a cigarette with friends, I'd be like, oh, my God, he's watching.

19:51It's that kind of, I don't believe it should be a prescription for how you live your life or do this, don't do that, hate this, hate that. You know, I don't see the hate that some people see. And don't forget, all religions are open to interpretation. You can interpret it as you wish. And some people have, it's not even, they interpret it in a way that I don't recognize at all. But how religious are you, Leila? I mean, do you believe in the hijab and burqa? No, but that's not religion. So there's nowhere in the Quran that says you have to cover your face or cover your hair. It says you have to be modest.

20:25Interpret that as you will. Where covering your hair and the burqa comes is Wahhabism in Saudi. And these are very extreme traditions. I mean, in the Middle East, before kind of the Muslim, the extreme Muslim takeover of it, people were, you see how Iran was, Egypt was the same. People were in bikinis, you know, parties. It wasn't like that. And there has been an extreme Islamic takeover of the Middle East. to its detriment, in my opinion. So have you been shocked by the response of some online? Because they tend to say, oh, we just want Muslims to integrate. We just want them to assimilate. And you're all of that.

21:04You're an outstanding public citizen. The thing is, I don't want to be known as a British Muslim or as a British Egyptian. I'm British. That's it. And that's all I am. I feel that's what we need to all go back to. We're all British. We're all Londoners. that, you know, that's what Sadiq Khan loves to do. You're gay, you're white. I just feel we all need to unite under one umbrella. I was a bit shocked, actually, that they called me an Islamist and they say this word, tekiya, which obviously I've never heard. Right. I've never heard of it. Right. Is this where you're pretending to be assimilated?

21:35Apparently so. But really you're part of a global conspiracy to convert Britain to Islam and establish this calendar. I'm an agent and apparently I can say whatever I want and then, you know, and they pointed to this tattoo as if it's a symbol of Islam. That tattoo, basically, I got, my ex-husband and I, we went to Japan. After I found out he cheated on me, we went on this, like, whole romantic, trying to, what, get back together. Your first husband cheated on you. Yeah. And then you went on a romantic. Well, I had four little kids under five. Right, OK, fine, you were trying to keep it together.

22:04Trying to keep it together. You know, I really didn't want, I've seen what divorce can do to little kids, especially. We went to Japan because I'd always wanted to go, so we went. And it was a very nice trip. But then afterwards, he cheated on me again. The same person or someone different, just out of interest? Someone different. Oh, no. He's a dog. Yeah. He's a dog. Yeah. But we got joint tattoos in Japan as a symbol of it. Yeah. Right. Haven't you wanted to remove that? Right. Well, it's very difficult to remove a tattoo, actually. I don't want to laugh. It's not easy. But the thing that the internet is picking up on as evidence that you're an agent of Al-Qaeda is actually part of a tragic attempt to keep your marriage going.

22:41So then I covered it. No, no, this is not the tattoo. Right. OK. I got a Japanese symbol as a tattoo. And I went to remove it and I said, oh, my God, it's quite painful. It's quite, and those actually 10 years ago, it's not that easy to remove a tattoo. I think they've moved on with lasers. So I went, I Googled who is the best tattoo artist. I said, I'm going to go to Beckham's. So I went to Beckham's Tattoo Salon. Yeah. And I'm like, can you please cover this? And he said, he said, finally, he showed me, you know, I think we looked at designs or, you know, because it needed to be quite big to cover it.

23:17And this is how this came about. Not to be too personal, sorry, but just back on the first husband. When you found out he cheated again with somebody else, I mean, this man's brave, isn't he? Because I really wouldn't do that to somebody like you. I'm quite a softy at home, I think. Now, are you hard on the outside and soft on the inside like a little chocolate? Yeah. I mean the sweet from the tin. No, I know what you mean. I don't mean the confectionery. I'm not going to go to the couch, it's soft all over. No, I was hard yesterday because I'm really sick and tired of speaking to people who are scared and I'm sick and tired of a mayor who looks at us and says, you're only saying this because you're talking London down or because I'm Muslim.

24:03And that really comes from a frustration and an anger. But I don't think I'm usually like that actually. I was crushed, I was very crushed because, you know We had four children with this man I had four little kids and we were doing fine actually And do you still speak to him now? You have to because you've got four children with him But I must say, I almost thank my first husband because my second husband's the best husband ever What's so great about him out of interest? He's just, he's like me he's a free thinker, you know, my ex-husband was French, hence the Brexit. But... I love that. My first husband drove me to Brexit.

24:46What nationality is your second husband? Right. He's just a great... If my husband says I'm going to pick you up and I'll drive you home, I'm looking forward to that car drive. Just to go get a coffee with him. Real simple things are a joy. I didn't have that with the first. And is it quite difficult? I don't like... I get these questions. How do you do it? I'm like, I don't really know. But you have got seven children. Also, you've got quite a difficult role because it's hard to be a step mum I had a step mum and she always used to say to me it's difficult this because I'm not your mum and therefore you could turn around and say like I'm not listening to you but at the same time I love you like I'm your mum so yeah you've got quite a lot going on domestically has that been difficult to manage or no listen they've been great they get along with my kids no I've always you know they're like my children I had them from I was very little so I you know I'd be with these like six little kids it was it was really a pleasure actually but but what's and they're my best friends now my kids I love them But what's your secret?

25:39Are you a hyper-organised person? No, not at all. No? It frustrates them, actually. Right. Yeah. I wouldn't admit to that if I was running for London. No, no, no. I mean, in terms of organising their life. Right, OK. Oh, I see, right. I'm very organised at home. You don't micromanage. I'm not a helicopter. No, that's what I meant. You can't micromanage six kids. You use the phrase free thinking quite a lot. I noticed that. What do you think about the attempt to define Islamophobia? That's not free thinking, is it? No. What is Islamophobia? I mean, well, you could argue it was what you've experienced on Expo.

26:11Yes, you just had a very good example. Yeah, but people, as I've said before, listen, I understand the fear people have of Islam. How can you not? I fear radical Islam, just as anyone, people in the Middle East like me feel radical Islam. When Islamic terrorism is one of the biggest threats we face. It's a threat that operates in the shadows. It's not a government threat. It's very difficult to control. and it's caused deaths in this country, unnecessary deaths. And so I get that, you know, and then I understand the frustration when you understand that there are Sharia courts in this country. When you see women in a Birkham, you go down to Tower Hamlets, there are Birkham markets.

26:51I mean, would you seek to close them down? If you were London mayor, what would you do about it? Because we've also got the issue of pro-Palestinian marches on the streets. Khan criticised, the Met Police criticised for so-called two-tier policing. Let's get into that. What measures would you bring into play to stop sectarianism and to, I don't know, I suppose, reinstall British values? Well, number one, I'd like to see the flag everywhere. I absolutely adore the Union giant. And when I go to America with my husband, I see it everywhere and it billows in the air. It's just, it's magnificent. And I feel we have an even better flag.

27:28and I think when you land in a country and the flag is billowing, it really is a sense of pride and you recognise that you are in a specific country. You know, the problem is that when you, I think, when you try and celebrate every culture equally, there's confusion, there is not one uniting culture that we all live by and you lose your identity or you're scared to identify the country's identity and I do feel that's what's happened a bit in London. Ban on the burqa, yes or no? Ban on all face coverings. OK. I would ban, I would make, and I don't know if I have the legislation to do that, and I don't, but I would give orders to the police that any face coverings are a reason for stop and search.

28:12You shouldn't cover your face. I mean, obviously people might have COVID masks because they've actually been advised not to spread germs if they think they're unwell. Well, we all know COVID masks don't work. Right. But what if they're elderly and they are immunosuppressed and they want to wear a face mask? You're not going to take down an 80-year-old on the tube. It's not an automatic stop and search. But right now I speak to officers. They are not allowed to stop someone even if they smell drugs. Right. You know, the threshold for stopping someone for stop and search is way too low right now because it's been politicised.

28:40Would you like to see tougher enforcement of cannabis, people smoking it? Because I feel like I walk around London now and it just stinks. See, I don't smell that. Right. If you are committing a crime, you need to face the consequences. Right. That's my opinion. And it doesn't matter how small it is. You know, if you're shoplifting, for instance, I don't think we utilize something as criminal behavior orders. I mentioned it yesterday. And what they are, court orders that ban you from an area. A fantastic tool, right? Because I have the same person who shoplifts from my local St. Brees every day.

29:09You shoplift, you go, you go, you're arrested, you go to court, you're released. That's it. And he comes back and he does it over and over again. The only force that uses that well is the city, which is different to the Met. But I want to see that enforced a lot more. And there is the political will to do that in some instances. So, for instance, in football matches, the lowest form of crime, you could have a tiny amount of weed with you. You will face a three-year ban from any football match. I want to see that kind. And it just kind of shows you really how the political class doesn't really care for the average high street.

29:40Right. You know, why do I have to suffer? Is it just because it's a big revenue? It's a big football match. And now they want to bring it in, I think, for concerts and stuff. I want to see that on the high streets for my daily living, for the ordinary person. But then the progressives would counter-argue, in the case of the prolific shoplifter, you know, I presume a male, young man or woman. Is this the one who robbed the same shop every 30 minutes? Exactly. Who is this guy? Is he drink and drag addled? Is he homeless? How can we stage an intervention to ensure that he isn't stealing to fuel some kind of addiction?

30:13You know, you can understand that other... Because there is the approach of zero tolerance, lock him up until he learns his lesson. It's ban him from the area. OK. But then he just goes to another area. So I agree with you that when I was in court, a massive proportion of criminals were drug addicts or alcoholics. Yes. And they are not criminals at heart. No. You know, you can tell the difference. No, they've got an illness and they're trying to feed it. And they would beg us in the dock, I don't want to commit crime. Please help me. And it will be heartbreaking. and what the courts do is they order you know like a drug rehabilitation order or an alcohol ATR alcohol something treatment treatment and actually I spoke to probation once it's really nothing it's basically you come and you have an hour's conversation have you taken drugs have you done that right and this is something I know it might be unfeasible it might not be affordable I would love to see a prison that's like the priory right you go in you don't come out until you're clean because that would, in my opinion, would cut so much crime.

31:16So because, like you say, they are just trying to fuel, although the guy that you're talking about, he leaves with like 10 stakes. But oh, yeah, just brazen. But no, but that maybe he's on the Atkins. We're not addressing that form of crime at all. What do you think about the performance of Mark Rowley, head of the Met? I don't think much of him right now, especially now that I've read that. But did you read today in the BBC that serial rapist was allowed through vetting? Right. Well, because it was to tick a diversity quota box. To tick a diversity quota box. And then didn't he say he got 9 ,000 grooming gangs cases wrong?

31:52What? How can you get that many cases wrong? So would you be looking to replace him if you could? Yeah, I would. If someone is not doing their job at the Mets, I'm not here to play. If I wouldn't make it, I'm not here to play nice. I really don't care. I'm here to serve the people. Not vested interests, not, you know, if anyone in the Met who's not protecting the people, then they've got to go, right? We're paying for them. It's taxpayer money. I just feel I wish politicians would treat taxpayer money like their own. Would they accept someone in a leadership role in their company that wasn't performing?

32:22No. What's also your view on the chief constable of West Midlands? He's also got to go. There's got to be accountability. I mean, Gordon Rayner, our colleague, wrote it up for The Telegraph today. They lied and lied and lied. Nick Timothy, who is admittedly a Conservative MP. No, he's been very good on it. He was cited by Nigel Farage at the press conference yesterday as really having done some hard work on the background of all this. And it does look as if West Midlands police have lied about the motivations behind stopping the Maccabee Tel Aviv fans from coming to that match against Aston Villa.

32:54I mean, it's a devastating message to Jews. You know, basically, if you're in danger, we're going to restrict you. We're not going to deal with the extremists. We're going to restrict you. If you had been mayor at the time, would you like to have stopped some of the marches against Israel during the Gaza war? I think anyone who screams for Hamas or the extermination of Jews should be arrested. You know, we do not allow the prescription. We do not allow the support of terrorist organisations. And Hamas is a terrorist organisation.

33:35Can I ask you some questions about other London matters? For instance, the congestion charge and ULES, low-traffic neighbourhoods, 20-mile-an-hour zones. Admittedly, I've reeled off a little bingo card list of all of the things that irritate telegraph readers who live in the capital. What would you do about all these? Get rid of all of them. Including congestion charge? Someone asked me that yesterday. I don't know. I'd like to see data. Has congestion been reduced? I feel London's not moving. Well, it's meant to be about air quality. Which has improved under Khan. I mean, one thing you can say he has done is he has improved air quality.

34:10But at what cost? Air quality. So at what cost? So I want everyone to be able to drive into London, not just the Uber rich. Right now, it is extortionate to drive into London. Taxis are extortionate. The tube is extortionate. I mean, he's putting up by 5.8 % again after he put it up last year. So you don't want to make London unaffordable for the average person. Right now, congestion charge in Eulers doesn't affect the rich, right? It affects the tradesman, the nurse, and it's got to go. And it affects the high street. I don't drive into central London to shop anymore. No. I'm like, I'm really going to pay congestion,£5,£6, parking.

34:46I just order online. Also, you will get a ticket because of the 20 mile per hour. And then you see it, it's hollowed out. It's all candy shops, Oxford Street, so many of them. Yes. Because I think that's a big reason. Yeah. And also, what about the good old cabbie that feels put upon, not least because of the rise of Uber and other car services? I mean, have they been overlooked? In what sense? Well, black cabbies, they complain particularly about how they're treated as sole traders. They're having to compete with drivers that don't know London very well, but they're being constantly undercut by companies like Uber.

35:19Do we need to restore the sort of supremacy of the black cabbie? I don't think you should listen I represented black cabs actually one of my first legal jobs and they're an emblem of London right they're great but they are unaffordable for a lot you know if I'm going if my kids are going out if six of my kids are going out at night and they all take a black cab home I bankrupt very very quickly Uber does provide a service a safe affordable service for people to get home and I wouldn't want to remove that can I write read you something Bear with me a minute from my esteemed co-presenter, Tim Stanley's sketch of yesterday's aggressor.

35:56If you don't mind, just give me a minute to find it. It actually made me laugh out loud. So you like... The last bit was hilarious. That you canvas with a polygraph. Yeah, that's not a bad idea. Tim, I am a polygraph. You're a human polygraph. Yeah, this is the bit I just want to refer to because along with Sarah Pochin and Andrea Jenkins, you have formed this, you know, Women for Reform group. And actually, Nigel Farage talked quite convincingly yesterday about the rise in female support. That's been echoed by a Mumsnet poll, which reveals that support for Labour has fallen among that particular caucus from 41 % to 18%, which is staggering.

36:34And the most popular politician among women who use Mumsnet, I mean, I think I'm probably being slightly generalised, but I think it is to the more liberal woke end of the spectrum that it is righties on Mumsnet, that they prefer Nigel Farage to anyone else. And Reform does have this slightly blokey reputation. You know, does Farage have a woman problem per se? Is he actually a bit of a kind of 1980s chauvinist? Not at all. OK, but respond to this. As Layla spoke, Nigel did some writing, thank you cards for Christmas, then congratulated her with that, you did your best love, now sit down air, that his Reform colleagues love so well and took the mic for 30 minutes of sparkling improv.

37:12Can we just, I mean, does reform have a bit of a women problem internally? You're a kind of alpha woman. I'm just intrigued as to how you get on with all of the men in your midst. I mean, admittedly, we do have more men than women, for sure. Could we have more women? Sure. You know, why not? It'd be great. And secondly... I don't think it's a problem. I think it's always more to have... I like women. I'm a woman's woman, you know. More a woman's woman than a man's woman, you think? Yeah, I've got sisters, you know. Yes. Definitely. Would you like to see Rob Jenrick join the party? Why? Because we're talking about women?

37:44No. No, you don't want Rob Jenner. Hang on. I think Nigel Farage wouldn't mind Rob Jenner. I mean, this is my personal opinion. Yeah. Why not? It was under him that the hotel migrants' situation flourished. You know, we had peak amount of hotels. I don't feel that the Conservatives have atoned for their sins. Oh. You know, I'm actually quite sick and tired of them going up there and calling out all these problems that they caused and offering solutions. They had actually 14 years to do that. I mean, maybe less because of Brexit and the coalition. They definitely had the previous term to do that, and they did none of it.

38:18You know, they talk about stamp duty. They milked stamp duty. They talk about, you know, the ECHR. Come on. They had all those years to get rid of it. They embraced it. And they knew it would stop their so-called Rwanda plan, but they still didn't do anything about it. So I just, I don't want, I don't think we need, I think we need a fresh look on the country, that's all. You said at your launch that you're quite happy to run against the Conservatives. If they put someone up, you'll take them on. In London, anyway. But one of the reasons why we're talking to you is because you might win. In 2028, this is actually some way away, Khan will be running for re-election, presumably, at a time in which Labour will probably be quite unpopular.

39:00So it's a rare opportunity to beat Labour. And isn't it frustrating that the right-wing vote, or whatever you want to call it, will be split between the two of you you and the Tories well whoever they pick so I go I have had so many emails to my council email of people saying I'm a staunch conservative in London you know I'm still going to be a conservative but I'll support you for mayor I think a lot of conservatives in London have kind of lost hope on the conservatives doing anything meaningful in London they didn't put particularly good candidates up I know from being in it they don't really take winning London back that seriously.

39:38Also, aren't they changing the voting system? So actually second preferences may be taken. How might that affect things, Leila? I'm not sure yet. Because they haven't decided on this, but there's this move to change it from first past the post to transferable votes. What it was before, yeah. And that could, if you get second preference votes, that could help to propel Leila to power, possibly. Okay, yeah. But this is the other thing. It could also help propel the Greens to power. Well, this is the other problem, right? You may be running against a Green rather than against Labour. I don't understand how anyone can vote for someone like Zach Polanski, honestly.

40:11I mean, there are politicians and then there are people who con women into thinking they can have larger breasts by being hypnotised. For me, that really does draw a line into being a complete con artist. I mean, he has apologised for that. Apologised? I mean, the thing is, Camilla, I'm so tired of apologies. Yes. You know what I mean? That was his role. He did it to women. Imagine how vulnerable a woman is when she thinks she can pay£250 and some bloke can go and be like, I'm going to hypnotise you for larger breasts. That is ripping people off. True. You know, that is really taking advantage of women's insecurity about their breasts and taking their money.

40:50And now he wants us to trust him. Listen, and this has nothing to do with politics. This is, you know, it's just people have to really analyse who they're voting for and not just the ideology they represent. But there's a cult of personality now around this bloke. And actually, just to lean into the second part of Tim's observation in his sketch, you know, when he refers to Farage doing 30 minutes of improv, that's because what Tim is saying, I deduce, is that Farage is presidential. he sees himself as a first among equals, that the criticism that it is a one-man band persists precisely because whenever we're invited to a reform event, we're very much reminded that this is ultimately the Farah show with you guys in the background.

41:33Is that unfair? Very unfair. He's the leader, you know, and that is a big deal. And he is a leader that, unlike the Conservatives and Labour, no one is plotting to get rid of him behind his back. And that's not because, you know, we're whipped or, you know, we're threatened. It's because we genuinely believe in his leadership. And that is a testament to who he is. Nobody, there are no chatters in the background of getting rid of him. And there's a lot of reform members. And to me, that is true leadership. We admire him. And we want him to answer questions for us. We respect him. We respect his answers.

42:10we're not sitting there begrudging going oh I want to do this I should be answering that no you know I'm happy because I want people to hear him because I know that when people hear him they'll be more convinced by him and more convinced by reform and for me that's true leadership I mean you know when Trump goes up there or any other leader they talk the most because and it should be it's Farage's party it's all of us but he is the leader of the party let's not forget since he came back reform has flourished and what's the deal with zia yusuf because there is a little bit of a correlation between you now not least in light of the well this is the thing i suppose the extreme righties who might be more of a kind of rupert lowe and ben habib persuasion seem to be suggesting that this is some kind of muslim conspiracy now takeover cooked over cooked up by the muslim yusuf and the muslim cunningham do you get on well with him what's very much he's He's great.

43:02He seems to be an intriguing figure. He is. He's what, I mean, I met him before I defected. Right. And it was meant to be like a 10 or 20 minute interview. And we ended up chatting for, you know, an hour and a great guy. Great thinker. You know, you see how good he is on the press. You know, he takes it very, very seriously, you know, and he is doing, he has a real intrinsic deep dive into what needs to be done. You know, he's not in it to just showboat. So, you know, he's constantly got his head down. He reads, he does that. He's always thinking about what does the country need? What else can we do?

43:37What else, you know? And I admire him. He's great. You'll enjoy this. You can respond to this poll. We asked, is Leila Cunningham the right choice for a former UK's London mayoral candidate? No, she won't succeed, got 13%. Oh. Yes, she can defeat Khan, got 87%. Oh, wow. And that was with total votes of 14 ,666. Wow. Telegraph readers. Love you. I don't know how many of our readers live in London. That's the only thing. What I really want to know is some critics will say, Khan will say, you're talking London down. Of course, you kind of have to. They all say that. Because you're the opposition.

44:19But also, you're the opposition. If you were to go around saying London's great right now, then obviously you wouldn't win because you've got to build a case for yourself. I'm not saying it to win, honestly. I'm saying it because it's an observation. And I wouldn't scare people into thinking London isn't safe just to win. Because that would be so disingenuous. That would be a dangerous rhetoric to push through if I didn't think it was true. I genuinely do not think London, I know London is not safe. And I wouldn't be sitting here trying to be mayor of a city that I didn't think was the best city in the world.

44:52Right. So that's my point. Tell me this as a concluding point. What's great about London? Why do you want to represent it? Why does it deserve Layla Cunningham? Why do I deserve London? Should be the question.

45:08I mean, it's my home, number one. You know, when we moved to America, I would literally go on social media and just look at photos of streets of London and go, oh, oh, look at that. You know, I would yearn for it. But, you know, just walk around London. Number one, I lived in L.A. for a bit. Don't need a car in London. I mean, if you're in, you know, you can walk around all the museums, all the history, all the parks. We are such a green city, way greener than New York or Paris. Every plethora of parks. And for me, that's to have that kind of urban lifestyle with all the green. And I just think Londoners are kind of cool.

45:49We just although a lot of Londoners have moved out because they can't afford it. But I just think, you know, Londoners are kind of cool people. and London, I can't describe it, it's just the best city in the world. It's got everything but police. On that note, we'll leave it there, but Leila Cunningham, thank you very much for coming in. Thank you. Giving us, I think, your first broadcast interview since being unveiled as Reform's candidate for London Mayor and good luck with your campaigning over the next 17 weeks ahead of the local elections, 32 London boroughs up for grabs. Do you think Reform will get a couple?

46:22Oh, yeah, more than a couple. And I think it will be a surprise. We'll definitely get more than a couple. And what's interesting is even in areas that we won't win, people are saying that there's finally a choice. There's never really been a choice in London. Because it's going to be instrumental, isn't it, for you? You've got an uphill task on your hands. This is his attempt at a fourth term in office. We know that the city predominantly is red, not turquoise. So you're going to have to do really well on May 7th. But it was red before this Labour government, I'll just say that. and I honestly think that the mayoral election will not be about party allegiance.

46:55It will be about what people want for London. Do they want the same? If you're happy with the status quo of London, then they probably will vote for Khan. But if people, even if you're Labour, Tory reform, if people are like, you know what, I just really want safe streets. I really want TfL not to hold us to ransom. I really want businesses to flourish here. So a lot of kids don't want to move here anymore. So many startups are not opening up here. I want to see it like, I've had this vision in my mind, You know, there's Silicon Valley. We have Silicon Roundabout. How unambitious is that? I want to see like on the Isle of Dogs or something, Silicon Bay, you know, where all the startups go and open.

47:29You've got AI schools. You've got, you know, it's flourishing. But as I said, who's going to set up shop here if there's no police, there's no security? It's, you know, that's what I want to see. I want to see London thrive. And if people want that, then they should vote reform. Leila Cunningham, thank you very much. Thank you. We'll be back tomorrow, 5pm. Thank you.